Dyack: 2009 cuts have been "staggering"

By Games Industry.biz Published 27 November, 2009

Silicon Knights are one of the last "V8s".

Denis Dyack, the outspoken boss of Too Human developer Silicon Knights, believes his studio is now "one of the last of the V8s", following a turbulent year in the industry of videogames.

"It's been really a rough year and a half for the industry as a whole. The number of layoffs in the industry has been staggering," Dyack told GamesIndustry.biz.

"As an external developer it's been tough. I actually don't know anyone who's older than us any more. There used to be four or five people I knew of but I feel right now that we're we're one of the last of the V8s. I've talked to a lot of people and I know a lot of people who have gone out of business."

Dyack is optimistic about the future, particularly Ubisoft's new 800-person, government-subsidised Toronto studio that should give the local Canadian industry an enormous hoof up the derriere.

"What that means for us is we're really excited because we're going to be able to come out, and the industry is going to rebound and grow, and we'll be one of probably five companies in the world that has any serious business beyond ten years," offered Dyack.

In the future, Dyack said he will aim to recruit locally or run a campaign to bring Ontario-educated developers back to the area.

"It's a win-win for developers here with companies like Ubisoft, to see Silicon Knights grow and Digital Extremes grow. We'll only make a more fertile ground for us. You don't lose people because big companies come in, you lose people because you're not doing a good job managing those people that come in.

"Quite honestly Ubisoft is only the first. I expect to see Silicon Knights grow, I expect to see Ontario to be a really good place to be over the next five years and you're going to see a massive change," he added.

Come on, Gordy, offer UK developers something along these lines.

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Comments (44) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • andromeda #1 2 years ago

    He said the phrase "win win"

    he is a cunt

  • Spydy #2 2 years ago

    Is he implying that SK will grow to be as big as UbiSoft in the next 5 years? The man is fucking deluded. Too Human was a peice of shit, so much so they layed off 25+ staff because nobody bought it. He didn't even mention any games they maybe developing.

    I smell total BS. SK are probably about to go under.
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/09 @ 16:30

  • Quint2020 #3 2 years ago

    New Labour support British businesses? HA! Don't make me laugh.

  • cianchristopher #4 2 years ago

    *From Wikipedia*
    Games developed by Silicon Knights:
    Cyber Empires
    Fantasy Empires
    Dark Legions
    Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
    Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
    Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
    Too Human

    Wow, just wow! One decent game and one port/remake of a classic and you think you're a major studio?

    Get a grip Dyack, you haven't got long left at this rate!
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/09 @ 16:37

  • LOLLERS #5 2 years ago

    an 800 person studio sounds like hell.

  • spadge #6 2 years ago

    We're 2yrs older than SK, founded 1990, 20yrs old next year. And we'll still be around for a few more :)

    We're constantly approached by the Canadians to relocate out there and benefit from all the grants and such, but despite less than great UK Govt. support, we're here to stay.

    Martyn, Team17.

    News on the new Alien Breed release next week...

  • Javier·de·Ass #7 2 years ago

    "News on the new Alien Breed release next week..."

    F YEAH

  • Spydy #8 2 years ago

    @ Spadge.

    Good going. SuperFrog, Project X, Assassin, Body Blows. Stone cold Amiga Classics. Here's hoping Alien Breed is as good as it looks. /gushing
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/09 @ 16:45

  • TheTingler #9 2 years ago

    Yes... Eternal Darkness 2 please Dyack. Too Human was a great idea, but thoroughly cocked up.

    Oh, and hello there Spadge! I still have fond memories killing you in the original Worms... :) And more Alien Breed = yay. It's out on PC, right?

  • BigJonno #10 2 years ago

    Team 17 was the first developer that ever made me think "I really like the games these people make" back when I was a wee sproglet with an Amiga.

  • OnlyMe #11 2 years ago

    spadge: remember that unreleased Amiga game you were making, Thief's Guild or something like that? Whatever happened to it? Saw a couple of screenshots, and it basically looked like a medieval Alien Breed, I was anticipating that.

    King of Thieves, that's what it was called.
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/09 @ 17:01

  • dither #12 2 years ago

    Aww, that gave me a warm feeling Spadge.

  • spadge #13 2 years ago

    Yeah, King of Thieves was intended to be very much along the lines of a fantasy/pirate/medieval alien breed. Unfortunately it didn't play very well and it was (I think) the first game we really canned, which was quite sad. We're back to similar working conditions of our former days with self-publishing/digital after a decade or so working with 3rd party publishers and it feels great. It's nice to be working on the stuff we want to again, not what a publisher -thinks- we should be :)

  • dudefella #14 2 years ago

    What's going on that SK can still be in business after the flop that was Too Human (I even liked that game!)? Who is giving Dyack all this money?

  • hiddenranbir #15 2 years ago

    Good you are staying Team17. Stay the Pride of Britain! Make a British Bulldog game! Multiplayer epicness!

  • spadge #16 2 years ago

    To be honest, it's quite a task staying alive in this business as an Indie developer and it's likely to be increasingly tough as business models change and the way games are developed and funded change. Fair play to them.

  • photoboy #17 2 years ago

    Spadge's comment says it all about New Liebour's priorities doesn't it? Canada is actively trying to bring jobs and business to its country. Brown & Co couldn't give a toss about anything unless they see the potential to fleece it and give the money to the banks.

  • Malek86 #18 2 years ago

    Do we even know what SK are working on right now?

    I don't remember these guys making a good game since Blood Omen. Well, maybe Eternal Darkness, but I think they were helped by Nintendo on that one.

  • Eraser #19 2 years ago

    id Software and Epic games are still around. Lets not forget a dozen japanese developers like Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Square Enix and Konami. And companies like Activision Blizzard and Electronic Arts are older than Silicon Knights as well.

    Obviously this is a case of Dyack having a big head again.

  • spadge #20 2 years ago

    Eraser, don't confuse publishers with developers, different beasts entirely (Square, Capcom, EA, Acti-Blizz etc are all publishers). Publishers tend to use/own/exploit development studios.

    Epic and iD were formed in 1991, incidentally.

  • The_Inquisitor #21 2 years ago

    @ cianchristopher

    I count more than one good game there... You're probably just judging them on their names though, aren't you?

  • the_mtfr #22 2 years ago

    Shit, I can name Finnish companies (Remedy, Futuremark, Housemarque and in 2 months Bugbear and RedLynx qualify too) just from the top of my mind that are 10 years +, and this bender can only think of 5 worldwide.

  • clockworkzombie #23 2 years ago

    If SK made a game in the same style as Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain I would purchase it. The voice acting in Kain is superb and I enjoy the top down isometric view more than the FPS later stories.

    I have just paid $6.00 to the PSN store for this game as my original disc back in the PS1 days was faulty it would not play the cut scenes at all. I tried different machines too, as I imported an American game to play on my US console I could not return it without a great deal of trouble.

  • GordonCaladan #24 2 years ago

    AGAINST

  • Collymilad #25 2 years ago

    "Eraser, don't confuse publishers with developers, different beasts entirely (Square, Capcom, EA, Acti-Blizz etc are all publishers). Publishers tend to use/own/exploit development studios."

    Yes but a lot of them also develop in-house using staff not there as a result of dev studious they have bought, they are part of the company.As in Konami developed SH and Capcom developed RE.

    Obviously they are still bigger and will whether the storm better, but they are developers as much as publishers imo (except maybe activision)

  • spadge #26 2 years ago

    Yeah, they have internal teams, but I think the discussion is about Indie development.

  • fobsta #27 2 years ago

    Self confessed leftie here. Do you really think the Conservatives will subsidize the games industry more than the Labour party? Besides why should the tax payer fund badly managed Games Devs who outsource much of their work overseas.....

  • kaosridder #28 2 years ago

    So subsidies are good now? Since when?

  • McBradders #29 2 years ago

    @fobsta

    Why do you think there is so much reliance on foreign outsourcing?

    Because it's more economical to do so. Publishers are expecting more for less so developers are simply doing what it takes to make a living. Subsidies from the government would certainly help more work get done at home. However it's not as simple as that, there are probably two dozen other factors that will continue to fuel the game industry's "love affair" with the boom and bust model.

  • kongzi #30 2 years ago

    As jesus said: "laughable, man!"

    "What that means for us is we're really excited because we're going to be able to come out, and the industry is going to rebound and grow, and we'll be one of probably five companies in the world that has any serious business beyond ten years," offered Dyack."
    That's indeed a very logical conclusion considering the succes of your last game. What was it? Norse mythology with science fiction, outdated design and unfulfilled promises built in an engine that wasn't your own?? I mean....huge parallel impact right there, yo.

  • fobsta #31 2 years ago

    @McBradders

    Can you see a government minister standing up in parliament proposing a bill to subsidize the games industry with taxpayers money when so much of it is outsourced outside the EU? Can't see it happening. Can you imagine the headlines if the game devs made an 18 game with tax break money?

    Other media industries have to cope with changes in technology and feast/famine cycles eg. print, tv

  • Chazmeister #32 2 years ago

    Please forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is a "V8"?

  • spadge #33 2 years ago

    I think the analogy is referring to a large engined thoroughbred. (i.e. 100+ devs, well established) I get what he means, one of the last few remaining larger indie dev shops. But he's very wrong to suggest that there aren't older ones, with at least 6, 8 or 12 cylinders ;-)

  • Dizzy #34 2 years ago

    >MS put $80M into Too Human. That must be a very sore memory.

    Pulling stuff out of your ass must be a very sore memory as well.

  • penhalion #35 2 years ago

    @kongzi

    Seriously man! You need to go back and revisit the whole silicon knights saga. They were screwed by epic as were a lot of companies. It took a lot of behind the scenes fire fighting for people to trust epic again afterwards. Basically they screwed all their licensees in order to create gears and gears 2.

    Then if you look at the games list from silicon, you realise that they have made some amazing games over the years.

    Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
    Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
    Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
    Too Human

    None of which were too shabby. Too human was a case of cutting their losses simply because otherwise they would have been doing a duke nukem through no fault of their own.

  • Machetazo #36 2 years ago

    What are Silicon Knights about, and up to, these days, anyway? I'd think that if TH was to be a trilogy still, and if it would have been built in the similar way to modern films where that is the intent; that we might at least see first artwork of a sequel, by now? What happens day-by-day in their ofices at the moment, lol!

    Even Digi-Guys are more visibly active! :p
    Edited by 2 at 29/11/09 @ 13:48

  • kongzi #37 2 years ago

    @penhalion: my point is they made themselves dependent on others like MS and Epic and now it seems the Canadian government. It's fine to do that, it's another thing to start comparing yourself to others that have been in the business for longer and with more success and imply that anybody else is basically screwed in 10 years.

    I think any developer that doesn't have any state of the art engine of their own running by now is going to be screwed, SK is one of them. Sure maybe Epic and somehow not the people that designed it is to blame for the mess Too Human was, that doesn't change the situation. Maybe this guy is trying to talk up the value of his shares before he dumps them.

  • metalangel #38 2 years ago

    @Chazmeister: A V8 engine.

    MOVIE SPOILERS AHEAD

    The line is from the original Mad Max. The context is that, in the post WW3 world of Mad Max, the underfunded police force that Max serves with is short of everything, including spares to repair their patrol cars. V8-powered cars as especially precious, and one is (much to the chagrin of the cops) destroyed in the chase in the opening sequence. The police mechanic later unveils an unmarked V8 interceptor car that he's been slowly putting together from parts he's salvaged from various wrecks. He refers to it as the 'last of the V8s', both because of the difficulty in assembling it and the obvious fact that such a powerful car is uneconomical in the oil-hungry world they live in. It is, however, the only car able to keep up with the biker gangs terrorizing the rural communities in the police's jurisdiction.

    In Mad Max 2, Max has wandered away from the civilization on the Australian coast and into the outback, where the government (and thus law and order) have pulled out, leaving anarchy. He encounters a fortified oil refinery of civilians desperately trying to produce enough fuel to reach the safety of the government-controlled coastal areas. The fame of his car somehow precedes him, and the refinery's mechanic immediately recognizes it as the 'last V8 interceptor, a piece of history'.

    Silicon Knights somehow think they're also a legendary piece of history in that they've survived.

    EDIT: You can see the car here: [link url=http://www.madmaxmovies.com/cars/mad-max-intercep tor/index.html
    ]http://ww w.madmaxmovies.com/cars/mad-max...[/link]

    It's very subtle, there's only the small police markings on the side and spoiler, and the blue light is on the dashboard out of plain sight. Note the huge blower!
    Edited by 1 at 29/11/09 @ 15:09

  • IronCladChicken #39 2 years ago

    @metalangel
    Reminds me of the old Speccy game... That and Xenozoic Tales.

  • YourMessageHere #40 2 years ago

    No no, it's nothing to do with cars, he's clearly referring to V8 vegetable juice. Perfect analogy, really - an oddity that's neither especially successful nor particularly enjoyable, but which, against all expectations, has somehow failed so far to fold up and die.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #41 2 years ago

    what the hell is a "V8"?

    It is a type car engine, typically 4 litres plus. Particularly popular in American cars, but dropped in popularity massively after the 70s oil crisis made smaller, more economical european and japanesestyle 1 to 2 litre straight 4-cylinder engines more popular.

    Not that they ever died out completely, there are still plenty of cars with V8 engined cars you can get, hefty SUVs, supercars like the Audi off the cover of Forza and big saloons like the BMW M5.

  • Murton #42 2 years ago

    "You don't lose people because big companies come in, you lose people because you're not doing a good job managing those people that come in."

    ^This^

    The man seems to be confused in thinking he's even a little brother to Ubisoft, but that line above it exactly the sort of attitude that the industry needs. Essentially, if you manage things right there will never be the need to lay people off, if only more people would realise this simple truth then maybe things wouldn't be in such a mess right now.

  • clockworkzombie #43 2 years ago

    V8 engines are still popular in Australia.

    The V8 version of the 6 cylinder ute I have gets 11 litres per 100 kilometers. The 6 cylinder version gets 7 liters per 100 kilometers.

  • telboy007 #44 2 years ago

    Darksiders looks to be the game Too Human should have been, Eternal Darkness will always be an absolute classic of a game. Seems like they'll need to be living off that success for a while longer.