DS pirate carts now illegal in UK

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 28 July, 2010

Judge slams the banhammer.

R4 cartridges, which are used to play pirated copies of games on the Nintendo DS, are now illegal in the UK.

A judge ruled against R4 company Playables Limited and Wai Dat Chan, making it illegal to import, advertise and sell R4 carts in Britain.

The "first-ever" judgement was made after the London High Court ruled the carts were illegal because they bypass the DS's security measures in order to run games.

"Nintendo promotes and fosters game development and creativity, and strongly supports the game developers who legitimately create new and innovative applications," Nintendo said in a statement.

"Nintendo initiates these actions not only on its own behalf, but also on behalf of over 1,400 video game-development companies that depend on legitimate sales of games for their survival.

In the U.K. alone, there have been over 100,000 game copying devices seized since 2009, Nintendo said.

Playables Limited and Wai Dat Chan argued that game copiers were lawful because they allow for the play of "homebrew" applications. Obviously that didn't work.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (120) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Rizo #1 2 years ago

    "making it illegal to import, advertise and sell R4 carts in Britain"

    But not illegal to own?

  • sonicyoda #2 2 years ago

    While I am totally against video game piracy of all forms I feel it is a bit of a shame that the only way indie developers had to create games for the DS has now been lost. This is why I still love my Dreamcast as indie devs and the homebrew scene are keeping it alive to this day. Some incredibly talented guys ported the 'They Hunger' mod for Half-Life onto the DC recently. Look it up, it's really worth it.

  • Bitkari #3 2 years ago

    With the price of cocaine now at an all-time low, I guess this now provides an excellent new product line for local criminal enterprise.



  • CallousB #4 2 years ago

    Obviously too late to repair the damage done to the DS market..

    ..but it should be a useful ruling to have in place when companies start trying similar things with the 3DS.

  • ianegg #5 2 years ago

    Hot on the heels of US courts having a sudden attack of common sense and ruling jailbreaking/rooting of phones is OK, we get the complete opposite. I suppose the homebrew to piracy ratio is a lot better with the former, but these carts really do have genuine legal uses.

    Have they just banned R4s, or all homebrew carts?

  • lucky_jim #6 2 years ago

    Uh-huh. Banning stuff- that always turns out well, doesn't it?

  • RobotRocker #7 2 years ago

    Good job Criminal Justice system. Remember when the gangs flooded the markets with pirated PS1 games at the start of the 00's?

    Yeah. Selling R4 carts stacked with games for £40 a pop is going to do the likes of them nicely.
    Edited by 2 at 28/07/10 @ 14:15

  • mingster #8 2 years ago

    Bitkari - I don't know who your supplier is because it's actually at an all time high.
    The price of a Kilo has almost doubled in the last 5 years.

  • Anufea #9 2 years ago

    Why put homebrew software in quotes like it's something fishy? There are tons of brilliant apps and (mostly simple) games available for everyone who wants to maximize the usefulness of his or her gadgets.

  • MrChuckles #10 2 years ago

    Oooh, Wai Dat Chan had the room next to me at University.... Time to go look him up... ;)

  • madgerald Verified Studio Head of PR & Marketing, Colossal Games LTD #11 2 years ago

    The whole "using it for homebrew" excuse is utter bollocks for about 98% of people who own R4 or similar devices for the DS or the PSP. There's one reason that they've got it, and that is to play pirated videogames or emulators. Yes, there is a small percentage of users who are interested in homebrew - but i bet they also play the odd pirated game.

    If people want to homebrew why not do it on a PC or mobile device such as Android or iOS.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #12 2 years ago

    And yet in the states an enlightened judge seems to understand that restricting fair use is something unlawful and should not be allowed.

    [link url=http://gizmodo.com/5596571/federal-judge-ok -to-break-drm-for-fair-use
    ]http://gi zmodo.com/5596571/federal-judge...[/link]

    I don't see why I can't use a backup cart to keep copies of the legit games I have bought just in case I lose them or break them or my dog chews them (like my homework).

    Anyway - it doesn't stop people from using them... or even manufacturing them does it?

  • madgerald Verified Studio Head of PR & Marketing, Colossal Games LTD #13 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett - the problem is that parents ARE aware it is illegal. Same as they are aware that it is illegal to download films, music and buy hooky DVDs. They do it because they can get away with doing it and they don't give a damn.

  • Mcstrife #14 2 years ago

    Banned in the Netherlands as well and I like it.

    It also adds to the value of games for the kids instead of seeing/treating them as disposables.

    And seriously: is homebrewing a 'right' on the DS? I think piracy aspect outweighs the homebrewing argument here. It's not like you are all gonna toss out the R4's anyways.

  • wizlon #15 2 years ago

    When you can homebrew on the xbox or anrdoid for free (ok, it costs to publish on the xbox) how can people defend these flashcarts. With the right equipment you can run DS homebrew over wifi anyway.

  • FireMonkey #16 2 years ago

    So should we also ban tape / video / CD / DVD recorders?

    The object itself should not be illegal as it doesn't actually break any laws. Advertising illegal use of it should be banned and the actual illegal activity on it should be stopped (although that is pretty much impossible to do)l, but that is all I thought they would be able to do.

    This is exactly the same issues as have hit recorders in the past.

    I have a feeling this ruling is not going to be up-holdable.
    Edited by 2 at 28/07/10 @ 14:36

  • Bartacus #17 2 years ago

    DS games need to come down in price I would say most are barely worth £9.99 & R4 is so convenient many games 1 cart.

  • themagicaltaz #18 2 years ago

    I own 50+ original DS games but when travelling I prefer using an R4 to avoid dragging 50 carts with me...

  • potiwilm #19 2 years ago

    so nintendo are saying, we bow down to R4, who are so much cleverer than us. we are not smart enough to pull our fingers out and do something about it ourselves so we got the bigger boy to beat up the kid who's been stealing our lunch money. right?

  • bloodflowers #20 2 years ago

    Typical UK - ban ban ban ban ban ban ban. We really, badly need proper fair use laws. If copyright holders are upset about piracy (I would be) - then they should prosecute the pirates, the people 'sharing' their game roms and so on, not the makers of a storage device.

    We should also ban blank CDs, because - you know.

    I am a supporter of copyright by the way, I buy -everything- but I can't support idiotic laws like the EUCD. In no way should it be illegal to run bespoke software on a device you own.

  • lucky_jim #21 2 years ago

    No, these carts have made piracy easier and therefore more prevalent, I think anybody who says otherwise is either telling fibs or misguided. But FireMonkey's comment is, imo, hitting the nail on the head here.

  • Grom #22 2 years ago

    Bartacus - if you don't think the games are worth the money then don't buy them.

  • WinstonChurchill #23 2 years ago

    @Grom

    I have a feeling they already don't...

  • Dylbot #24 2 years ago

    Hey, let's ban SD cards next, people can use them to softmod a Wii! Wasting huge amounts of taxpayer money in upholding frivolous laws will certainly be better than a firmware patch that stops them from working!

    Fuck you, legal system.

  • StooMonster #25 2 years ago

    @ EarlBassett: completely agree. I knew quite a few people with these, and others who've got them for their kids.

    Not one single instance of "homebrew" or "indie developers" software among them, exclusively used for mass DS piracy. R4 spread through my nieces and nephews schools like wildfire, once one kid got them they showed their mates and got their parents to buy one for them ... download pirate games for all from then onwards.

    @ sonicyoda: how do "independent developers" earn money from making games for R4?

  • myiagros #26 2 years ago

    I recently attended a family gathering, and was absolutely flabergasted to find all the kids there under 15 were playing on their DSs using M3 cards.

    Now i don't know whether the games they were playing were pirated or just backed up from their legit carts at home, but i previously had no idea how widespread the use of these devices were.

    I had thought they were only used by the typical mod/import crowd, not by every kid with a DS.

    I'm all for banning these types of device, but it surely is the attitudes of the parents which are really the issue here, like madgerald said, they know its ilegal, but either don't realise or don't care who their actions are harming.

  • MeBrains #27 2 years ago

    should Nintendo not sell 5y old games at full price, I would not have modded the Wii.

  • menage #28 2 years ago

    I wonder if this will actually increase sales of normal games. I know I used to pirate games I was never going to buy anyway back in the days. It was either that or not play it at all, but I wouldn't buy it if I just wanted to check it out for an hour or 2.

    If there was a decent rental system in the Netherlands I would go there for games I'm only half interested in, but now I just wait till they drop till 5-10 bucks afterwards. This is barely going to affect sales I'm afraid. Cause the users weren't planning on spending much anyway me thinks.

    And DS games are rarely even worth the admission. Apart from big hitters like DQIX or Zelda. There's so much crap.

  • aine #29 2 years ago

    are there any articles on this written by someone who knows what they're talking about? i'd be interested to know what, exactly, has been banned here. just devices with "R4" in the name? any device that allows you to run pirated commercial roms? anything that runs on a DS that isn't authorised by Nintendo? (which would also affect the Action Replay etc)

    either way I'm quite conflicted about this. piracy has certainly hurt the DS market - I've heard many publishers saying they can't release interesting niche game X on the DS because 90% of their potential audience would just download it, which has resulted in a market mainly consisting of games about horses. (though the major retailers are also part of the problem here) But on the other hand I do have one of these cards, and it's a million times more convenient being able to carry all my games around on it, not to mention the ability to play music long before the DSi, watch video, draw, chat on MSN, run emulators (yes okay that's illegal, but again it's filling a gap left by Nintendo - there's no legit way to play 99% of old games on a handheld), write my own software and a million other things that aren't possible with a stock DS.

    What console makers should really do is open their systems up to homebrew from the start, while locking commercial games down tighter than a duck's arsehole (if reports are true Nintendo are already planning to let users copy games to the 3DS's internal memory, so that should eliminate the one legitimate reason for a commercial ROM playing device). IIRC all the major advances allowing these cards to exist were made by homebrew developers rather than pirates, and simply copied by all the cart manufacturers.

  • cawley1 #30 2 years ago

    More piracy bollocks, 25 years after tape to tape on the Speccy and C64, then through every subsequent hardware generation it's still going on, and no surprise!

    Same arguements, the piracy sells systems, the games are too expensive, regardless of this judgement, if you want one of these devices, you will get one, even more so in the global market we have at our fingertips these days.

    I have an R4, and I have played pirate software on it, so hang me... But wait! Anything I have played that is worth buying I have bought, Henry Hatsworth a good example, importing Contra 4 and Retro Game Challenge because they were not released here... What about obscure Japanese stuff like Bokura no Telebi Game Kentei? Bought it because I played it on the R4 first!

    And then there is excellent homebrew like the Spectrum emulator (I know, some would say that is piracy in itself), and the port of Lemmings that will never otherwise be seen on the DS...

    Obviously most people don't bother to buy stuff they play for free, but don't tar us all with the same brush.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #31 2 years ago

    Another case of the legal systems gears way behind tech. Indeed, typical U.K response is to ban stuff, and while that sounds good in the press, it largely does little to those determined. Besides, the damage is already done on DS, and many will soon be migrating to 3DS. Pretty soon, homebrewers and modders will have cart blanche of DS, once Nintendo abandon it, in say two years.

    Its true though, DS games are way over priced and typical Nintendo can't be reasonble with their prices. If DS games were priced lower, they'd sell more of them. I don't think I've ever purchased a DS game full price, let alone GBA/GBA games.

  • Raiko101 #32 2 years ago

    I don't personaly know anyone who didn't buy an R4 to get their hands on some free games. There really is no excuse for piracy. If a game is too expensive then don't buy it. End of story. If its not on your prefered system, then tough luck. Or something...

  • Grom #33 2 years ago

    @MeBrains

    You're already in minus karma hell, but I'll bite...

    So what if Nintendo doesn't reduce the price of 5 year old games? That's their lookout and their problem if they don't sell at that price. Although the way Wii owners buy games, I suspect they are still selling well, even at full price...

    It's damn well not an excuse to copy them just because they are priced highly - they're obviously worth something to you or you wouldn't bother to download them. It's not your 'right' to play those games, you don't NEED to play them. It's not like Nintendo makes something you need to live. If you can't afford them, work until you can or just go and do something else with your free time.

  • varsas #34 2 years ago

    @MeBrains: Perhaps you could use your brain and look out for bargains? Officially first party games are still sold at full price but anyone who can use a search engine can find it cheaper online e.g. Phantom Hourglass was a £10 at Argos for a long time.

  • nemesisND1derboy #35 2 years ago

    I have to say, although I disagree with Piracy 100%, the R4 cards are useful, not just for homebrew but also for travelling. I have an R4 card, with 18 games on it. However I have also purchased these games at retail. I use it whenever I go on holidays or long car journeys as it is not practical to carry 18 cards with me, when I can carry one. If Ninty introduced a scheme where you get to download your game for free off their site once you have bought it, by way of a voucher code or something, surely that would help?

  • aine #36 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett - It's a reasonable one though. Demos on the DS are few and far between, people shouldn't be forced to buy games they won't like just because they have no way to try them out first. If someone genuinely purchases every game they download and enjoy, where's the harm? the only problem is most people who say that are lying.

  • sonicyoda #37 2 years ago

    @StooMonster

    I didn't mention anything about indie developers making money from their DS exploits did I? I always assumed making homebrew games was a hobbie first...

  • SG #38 2 years ago

    Bitkari
    28/07/10 @ 14:06

    With the price of cocaine now at an all-time low, I guess this now provides an excellent new product line for local criminal enterprise.

    Really? How much on the G?

  • speedjack #39 2 years ago

    There are three arguments to this.

    1. How do I make 'back ups' of my games now ?

    2. oh noeees I can't run home brew !!!

    3. You mean I can't have all my games on one cart ?!

    Of the three, the first is a pirate's lie, the second is hardly a deal breaker when buying a DS, and the third is a legitimate 'nice to have' feature and something that the 3DS will allow.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 15:49

  • SpaceMonkey77 #40 2 years ago

    I think the DS is a victim of Nintendo's own gimped making. They still want to keep carts, when we all know the same DS games could easily fit onto a small Micro SD card. When the average DS game size is 32-128mb, its frankly insulting to us gamers what we are paying for as DS games.

    But ask yourself, why won't the mighty Nintendo just use SD cards, and save on packaging etc costs? Nintendo won't do so, because they are greeedy and want to stiff developers with their cart hooks forever, taking all the money for themselves. Clever perhaps, and its clear they aren't thinking of the customer.

    I do have such a device (lets call it a Not R4), but mine is used for space saving, demos (if Nintendo moved on this properly, buying DS games wouldn't be such a shot in the dark), mostly of obscure japanese game we are never going to see released officially. I would have never discovered the joys of Nodame Cantabile, Hokuto No Ken or Hajime no Ippo on DS, all of which I now own import copies of and are awesome.

    I'll welcome 3DS with its flash drive, (which will save such space, however small it is) but I know that Nintendo will shackle it with some crap to annoy us. So long as its still region free, I'll be happy. Only a matter of time till that gets hacked to though.

  • StooMonster #41 2 years ago

    @ sonicyoda: I see. What indie developer created games should my R4 wielding young nieces and nephews and all their mates look out for, to turn them away from their rampant never-pay-for-a-DS-game ways?

  • lucky_jim #42 2 years ago

    Milky1985 makes an interesting point. I know there is at least one cart available for the DSi which doesn't bypass the security- you download a software file, put it on the MicroSD, and it's that which bypasses the security. The software file gets updated quite often to bypass DSi firmware updates. I'm not talking about system software for the cart, it's actually the security bypass you download separately from the system software.

    If that cart is unaffected by the ruling, then I imagine their sales will go through the roof.

  • afray #43 2 years ago

    @SpaceMonkey77 you don't use your R4 for "demos." You use it to pirate games that you promise yourself you will buy if they're any good. Even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you bought every single game you pirated, you still pirated them up to that point. You still helped share the bittorrents. You gave the hits to the websites hosting the tracker files. You took what you hadn't yet paid for because you felt you had a right to play these games before buying them.

  • orangpelupa #44 2 years ago

    btw
    for some countries, using Flashcarts in DS is the only way to play DS games on DS. Just like in my country .....
    there;s no place to buy original DS game.

    go to gamestore, shopping mall. All you can see is pirated games. But still Lucky pc game still available original here, i got BFBC2 PC from EA in my country.
    even when buy original PS3 games, that same store will sell other pirated games like xbox 360, wii, ps2, nds, and so on.

    the gamer here many of them even Can't download game. Internet is an awesome expensive unsusual thing here. They just buy Flashcart. Go to the gamestore everytime they want new game. Pay the gamestore to install the game.

    and most of us cant import because most dont have credit card etc etc, and our country have crazy high import tax
    Edited by 2 at 28/07/10 @ 16:27

  • emhaslam92 #45 2 years ago

    good job I just got mine last week.

  • Bartacus #46 2 years ago

    I gave up on the DS ages ago had all the flash carts with all the best games but I found them to be mostly rubbish, certainly not worth even half the retail price.

    I'm surprised Nintendo don't have there own flash cart were you load rental games onto that expire within a set time, or an option to pay a one off fee for unlimited play.

  • RobotRocker #47 2 years ago

    @EarlBasset

    Do you work for ELSPA? You have the exact same talking points they do.

    That or you are a supremely good troll.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #48 2 years ago

    @Afar

    Yes, and I also purchased plenty of legit DS games, import and official. If I was purchasing nothing at all, then you'd have a very valid point. I also enjoy the homebrew efforts of Colors DS. For anyone to blatantly assume that its all about piracy is nuts, but that's the song that ring loudest for those we like to listen.

    Its like Mr Gabe Newell said, many who dl games are just badly served customers. and this fact rings ever true with DS. DS demos are absolute bs. Nintendo failed on the DS demo front, and frankly, continue to do so in this area even on their home consoles. I'm a Live user, and will not purchase a game, unless I know what its like. Sure reviews exist, but not for every game. Had Nintendo not failed on the DS demo front, DS piracy would be surely minimal at best.

    EG: While not a DS game, try finding a review for russian 360 game Morph X online. Bloody hard. How about it, EG?

    But I digress, what of these systems once they are dead? No one ever seems to mention this point. For the DS, that's not far off. DS will probably be dead in 2-3 years.

    Overall, I think future home consoles should have some means of creation for the user. XNA and PSN are a good start, but having a piece of writable hardware, possibly seperate from the main system, could eliminate a lot of piracy, while encouraging people to create their own content again, like back in the day.

    Never needed to dl any 360 games. I wonder why that is? Because I can sample demos of course.

    Perhaps EG should do an article on why DS demos failed for Nintendo.

  • el_pollo_diablo #49 2 years ago

    Oooh, I hope there's an amnesty.

    I love amnesties.

  • afray #50 2 years ago

    @SpaceMonkey77 well done on ignoring every single point that was put to you.

  • hulkamania78 #51 2 years ago

    I have an edge card it is casual for my daughter. The games are not worth 30 quid. Only a few justify it. It's on one cart for fraction of price. I own 2 of each next gen console there all legitimately and wouldn't lose my online status but if u can get it cheaper so what good business. I am in game checking then downloading later. No guilt here.

  • hulkamania78 #52 2 years ago

    I have an edge card it is casual for my daughter. The games are not worth 30 quid. Only a few justify it. It's on one cart for fraction of price. I own 2 of each next gen console there all legitimately and wouldn't lose my online status but if u can get it cheaper so what good business. I am in game checking then downloading later. No guilt here.

  • gnrlstuart #53 2 years ago

    why doesn't the BBC have a comments section on their stories or a forum? because they spew absolute shit to weak minded individuals, and don't want people to have their own opinion. just as with this law.They are telling us 'this is wrong, its your fault that Nintendo never bothered to implement piracy countermeasures in their console, or that games are so overpriced that there was demand for such a device'.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 17:22

  • varsas #54 2 years ago

    @aine: No one is forcing people to buy games they won't like.

    Why do people go on about the pricing for DS games? It's not like one needs to buy them at full price and most gamers are perfectly happy paying for more expensive games on home consoles in the past and now. Yes, some DS games are very lightweight but there are a large number of excellent titles that have hours of play and are worth the price.

    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 17:29

  • SpaceMonkey77 #55 2 years ago

    Beware throwing assumption knives. Just because I like pizza, doesn't mean that's all I eat, Arfar.

    Hey look at this.
    Xbox Live: Great security, demos for all games
    NDS: Bad Security, no demos as standard.
    I have both, but which would you choose? Though I have both, the former occupies much more of my time.

    I've purchased more import games for DS this gen, than any previous handheld one. I also like to collect my physical games for my collection. With physical space needed, one has to be choosy concerning purchases, in short no space for crap. Demos help sort the wheat from the chaff. Physical will always trump digital for me overall.

    The most ironic thing with portable demos, is that this is one area that PSP actually does a better job than DS. Anyone remember that God of War Chains of Olympus demo UMD? I'm sure it improved its sales and was a brave move (and look on yonder horizon, an PSP GoW sequel, I wonder why?). Only problem again is that demos aren't advertised, so more can try them, big mistake. A site like PSP Demo Center is awesome (check it out if you must), but few know of it, unfortunately. I also have a PSP, and this helps a lot of my purchases.

    So again, its all very well getting on the high horse about it, but portable demos are a broken and neglected area, beyond iphone. Nintendo and (and to a lesser extent, promotion wise) Sony need to sort it out. No point in moaning about DS piracy, if no decent, legit sampling alternative, is offered to counter it.

  • Acrid #56 2 years ago

    The child in me wants to buy one now they're banned

  • sanctusmortis #57 2 years ago

    For kids, it makes no sense to buy the games; most of the little kid games (those for under10) are either massively short (Peppa Pig, Dora, Diego - all 15 minutes long, and an utter waste of money as a result), or unsuitable for the age they're targeted at (Make 10, which my son has on cart, uses lots of text in about 4pt, and is supposedly for 4+), and utterly unpreviewable.

    Nintendo targeted families and young children, but doesn't have that gold standard they used to have back in the NES and SNES days. As a result, my kids have to make do with what they have, as the trade value on these games is tiny due to their nature. Many people turned to the R4 because their kids want 30+ games, and at £30 a pop with no guarantee of quality, this is their only option to keep them happy. Heck, most of these games would be 59p on an iPhone.

    As for "who the real pirates are", from experience? Police. I know plenty of cops whose kids have R4s, and they just don't think about it as anything illegal...

  • afray #58 2 years ago

    @SpaceMonkey77 if you had even attempted to engage with the points I made, you would have got my name right.

    When you download games off the internet, you're helping other pirates. If you share the bittorrent, other pirates will benefit. If you just go to a pirate website regularly, you're increasing their ad revenue and pirates benefit. If it walks like a duck, dude.

    Please, ignore these issues, and continue to justify it to yourself by saying that nintendo made you pirate their games because they didn't give you a fucking demo.

  • TheNinkyNonk #59 2 years ago

    Whilst I think this is a positive move and disagree with piracy, given the insane success of the DS, it raises interesting questions about the commonly accepted point-of-view that piracy kills the industry.

    And DS games ARE insanely overpriced given the short development cycle that most have compared to full-blown HD titles. Not that that's an excuse for piracy, mind, just a point that platform developers need to be more mindful of - Sony too.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 17:55

  • RobotRocker #60 2 years ago

    So the person making good points that can be googled is the troll!!!! says the person making random baseless accusations.....

    Sorry for not getting in line to praise the holy games industry who cannot be besmirched in anyway possible or else you are a heretic pirate and pointing out the biggest industry white knight in the thread is using the exact same arguments the biggest lobby group in Europe for the industry uses.

    No, really. Its hilarious how many people take arms to white knight an industry which has done nothing but take massive dumps on them. Someone comes up with storage solution to hold multiple games on one cart and suddenly its the tool of the devil because some people use it to pirate and everyone who uses it illegally or legally is a filthy nasty pirate. You may as well say that "all Germans are Nazis" with that logic.

    Its hilarious how gamers always want their rights stamped on. Between Fairplay, DRM and this, its becoming evident that the cancer killing gaming is the gamers themselves.

  • TheNinkyNonk #61 2 years ago

    "Its hilarious how gamers always want their rights stamped on"

    What about the rights of developers to make a return on the product they've made? Their right to see the law enforced?

    Look, I get all the arguments for piracy, but at the end of the day each and every one is flawed and rooted in selfishness. Yes, the industry has issues too that it should address but piracy's not the answer. It puts you in a position where you can be prosecuted and makes the industry even more bullish in its stance. If you can't afford or don't know if you want a game then don't buy it and don't pirate it. "I have a god given right to try games by any means necessary" isn't a third option.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 18:04

  • redneon Verified Programmer, SUMO Digital #62 2 years ago

    @hulkamania78:

    From a professional games programmer who's living depends on selling these things:

    Sir, you are a dick of the highest order.

    That is all.

  • RobotRocker #63 2 years ago

    @TheNinkyNonk

    Tell me in my post where I advocated piracy

    Rest of you. I expect ten more "You don't support this judgement therefore you are a pirate" strawman arguments against my post by 8pm tonight. Get cracking.

    I don't own a R4 by the way

  • darth_paul #64 2 years ago

    the M3 ones are OK, then

  • smelly #65 2 years ago

    >because some people use it to pirate

    Yes im sure that "some" people use these carts for "backups" and "homebrew" - and not at all for piracy. If by "some people" you mean one person.. somewhere.. maybe...

  • RobotRocker #66 2 years ago

    Yes im sure that "some" people use these carts for "backups" and "homebrew" - and not at all for piracy. If by "some people" you mean one person.. somewhere.. maybe...

    And all true Scotsmen like haggis, right?


  • smelly #67 2 years ago

    "And DS games ARE insanely overpriced given the short development cycle that most have compared to full-blown HD titles."


    Do you have ANY idea of how much it costs to manufacture a cart (which contains main chips, plastic, etc) as opposed to a cheap dvd (which can just be sent to a duplication outfit)?

    Thought not.

    But if the price makes you feel better about piracy.. well i was going to liken this to stealing a car i cant afford.. but then that'll start some pirating twat telling me that piracy isnt theft as there's no loss of a physical copy and other such bullshit they've read on stuart campbells webshite.

  • Caimbeul #68 2 years ago

    "Obviously too late to repair the damage to the DS market" ? The DS Marjket is still very healthy and not suffering.

    Also if "R4's" are illegal. what about "Edge cards and other variants??

  • Gaol #69 2 years ago

    I just wish they'd get ebay to clean up. I'd like to sell my old DS games without competing against Hong Kong carts selling for a tenner and usually listed with 'Game Dose Not Work with DSi' in the description!
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 18:33

  • governmentyard #70 2 years ago

    Just to let all the sanctimonious people in this thread know - all your bleating, moralising and mistaking of copyright infringement for theft will never, ever stop piracy. I gave up on the DS after my fifteenth or so £30 piece of shit half-hour wondergame the store would buy back off me a week later for £15 and sell on for £29. Now on my R4 I use my DS for Nitrotracker and mucking about with Pocket Physics, with a little SCUMM and Nethack on top. Way more fun than any boxed game I ever bought.

    According to some on here, my fun on the DS should be curtailed because others use the device for piracy. Well, fine, I'm not bothered because they always will, and I'll always have my Nitrotracker one way or the other.

    How far is this argument going to get stretched anyway? Torrent users for demoing purposes (fair enough to my mind) might be propping up piracy by sharing the torrent but then I'd love to see how many ISPs survive in the UK were we to bring the banhammer on anyone who has ever used the internet for piracy of any form. I'll bet you'd love sitting there all evening watching your 5xx error messages while all the pirates and homebrewers sit down the pub swapping cartridges, disks and so on.

  • RobotRocker #71 2 years ago

    Do you have ANY idea of how much it costs to manufacture a cart (which contains main chips, plastic, etc) as opposed to a cheap dvd (which can just be sent to a duplication outfit)?

    Gee. I wonder how much that 512MB SD Flash card that I buy in Tesco, Maplin or Jessops for £5 costs to manufacture?

  • governmentyard #72 2 years ago

    @Theninkynonk

    " "I have a god given right to try games by any means necessary" isn't a third option. "

    Right? perhaps not. Buy there is a god-given ability and people will always use it. I don't much care for a world where devs have the right to be paid for whatever third-rate shite they churn out but buyers don't have a right to try before they buy, get their money back in full for utter crap or do what they want on their machine that they paid for.

  • smelly #73 2 years ago

    @governmentyard quote : "According to some on here, my fun on the DS should be curtailed because others use the device for piracy. "

    Erm - didnt you just say you used it to play scumm games? Let me guess, you only play the public domain ones?

  • smelly #74 2 years ago

    @RobotRocker quote : "Gee. I wonder how much that 512MB SD Flash card that I buy in Tesco, Maplin or Jessops for £5 costs to manufacture? "


    *sigh* a mass produced memory card is not the same as a game cart with the game hard flashed on the cart, with battery backup, and cant be mass produced in billions of units... Is this so hard to understand the logistics of this? Sheesh!

  • SpaceMonkey77 #75 2 years ago

    @afray

    On the contrary, I answered all you had to say, with the pizza analogy. Did you miss it? Its pretty clear you aren't listening to what I have to say or my experiences with portables, but no matter. Yours, like mine. is but one view in the sea of them. All that you mention, do you know to be fact? And if you can't answer what' Ive said here, then that's fine, but the whole issue will never be black and white, just shades of grey.

    If you need it explained, what I mean by it is that you are shooting in the dark with a lot of assumptions, just with your first post. I think you need to go back and understand why much piracy exists, and has existed for some time.

    @Ninkynonk: I hear what you are saying. If Iphone games can be cheaper and offer Lite demo versions, what's Nintendo's excuse for no standard DS demos? I know Iphones still has games pirated (no need for this, as they are cheap enough next to other handheld games), but at least it has a means of sampling a game.

    Hardly use my DS these days, rather play on my 360. When I buy DS games, its in sales for a few quid, or on ebay and playasia.

  • RobotRocker #76 2 years ago

    *sigh* a mass produced memory card is not the same as a game cart with the game hard flashed on the cart, with battery backup, and cant be mass produced in billions of units... Is this so hard to understand the logistics of this? Sheesh!

    DS Carts use EEPROM, not BBRAM and are similar in manufacture to solid state memory cards

    Nintendo don't seem to have a problem mass producing them either looking at the store shelves of my local GAME as well.

    So not that hard really. Maybe if you didn't get so worked up over it, might be easier to explain.

  • smelly #77 2 years ago

    >Nintendo don't seem to have a problem mass producing them either looking at the store shelves of my local GAME as well

    *sigh*. A game will be produced as a set of runs. I'll try to explain this in terms you'd understand.. Say you wanted a t-shirt printed to say "i love my mummy" - one t-shirt will cost you a lot of money to get printed. Now lets say you thought you could sell 100 of that t-shirt, you could do a bulk order and get it cheaper. If you ordered 1000, you could get each shirt really cheap, but then if you didnt sell them you'd be out of pocket.

    DVD's are cheap to mass produce, costing pennies per dvd. Game carts are not. Same goes for the UMD on psp.

    Not that it matters anyhow, because regardless of how cheap or expensive they are, it's not an excuse to pirate them. If you cant afford to play something, tough.. dont play it.

  • Bluetooth #78 2 years ago

    Sounds like I've missed out. I've never pirated a DS game before (though I did mistakenly buy a pirate GBA game off ebay once)

  • RobotRocker #79 2 years ago

    *sigh*. A game will be produced as a set of runs. I'll try to explain this in terms you'd understand.. Say you wanted a t-shirt printed to say "i love my mummy" - one t-shirt will cost you a lot of money to get printed. Now lets say you thought you could sell 100 of that t-shirt, you could do a bulk order and get it cheaper. If you ordered 1000, you could get each shirt really cheap, but then if you didnt sell them you'd be out of pocket.

    As I said. Nintendo don't have a problem putting them out in bulk like SD Cards which operate on the same principle like with all goods. Basic law of manufacturing goods really.

    P.S. Nintendo manufacture the cards in different sizes as blanks and flash them with the game rom given to them by the publisher before packaging. They use a universal standard compared to the more customized SNES, GBA and N64 carts so they only have to use different sizes instead of manufacturing carts specifically. Therefore, bulk and cheap like SD cards.

    Not that it matters anyhow, because regardless of how cheap or expensive they are, it's not an excuse to pirate them. If you cant afford to play something, tough.. dont play it.

    And heres that "You don't support this judgement or my white knighting therefore you are a dirty pirate" strawman again. Was that even related to the argument you were trying to make there or are you just flinging what you can to the wall?

  • smelly #80 2 years ago

    And has it occured to any of you pirates that the reason we're seeing fewer quality titles on the DS nowadays, and much more casual stuff - is because the "hardcore" games are more likely to be pirated, whereas casual gamers are less likely to know how to do it?

    Take chinatown wars.. On its opening week it sold fairly badly. But i remember looking and finding MORE seeds to download the game (that's seeds not downloads) than were actually sold that week. Is it any wonder therefor why developers would choose not to create a game for that "market" and prefer to make cheaper, less pirated games like "my baby sim #4325".

    Pirates seem to forget that they're shooting themselves in their foot - whereas they moan that "there's no good games" on the platform - they seem to not get the idea that they themselves are probably the reason behind that.

    Ever wonder why there's so few good quality single player pc games out there? Me neither, it's a no brainer.

  • lucky_jim #81 2 years ago

    @EarlBasset- I'm not in total disagreement with you, piracy is definitely immoral imo, but you should familiarise yourself with what theft actually means before you start calling people "thieving cunts". As should ELSPA et al.

    I'm not going to pretend my Edge card has never had a pirated game on it, but my main use for it is running ZXDS - a handheld Spectrum is far more entertaining to me personally than most DS games are, but I acknowledge I'm in the minority here.

  • smelly #82 2 years ago

    @lucky_jim : You arent stealing the physical product, but you are stealing the developers time. if i employed you to make some software for me for 6 months. Then at the end of the 6 months, i took the product you made and slaved over but refused to pay you for your time. Have i just stolen from you? Yes - i've stolen your time.

    Personally the way the situation is on the DS, if i was still making games -there is no way in hell i'd waste money developing for either the DS or the PC.. The sales to piracy ratio is waaay out of whack on everything but stuff which appeals to the casual market who dont know how to pirate.

  • cawley1 #83 2 years ago

    @lucky_jim

    Hit the nail on the head... What I was saying, ZXDS is excellent, one of the best emulators ever, playing Head over Heels, Jet Set Willy etc. on the DS is better than the majority of the games available on the system!

    And I actually donated some cash to the developer, so I guess I can't be falted there, either! (although someone will come along and moan that I am a theiving cunt for ripping off some 25 year old game, but I do honestly own all the good ones on cassette anyway!)

  • smelly #84 2 years ago

    @TerryWogan - and why do you think the decent game supply has shrivelled up? Think about it.. why would game makers suddenly stop making decent hard core games for a platform where when they release them there are more seeds to download them than there are sales in the shop?

    So you should care.. fewer carts being available means less pirating, means more and better games. If nintendo can squash this problem for good before the 3ds comes out... should mean lots of good quality games on that system.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 19:48

  • TheNinkyNonk #85 2 years ago

    @smelly

    I get your point about cartridges but comparisons to the printing industry are poor. In printing, a new run involves creating brand new screens or plates for each print at a fair cost of money and time. Short runs involve halting the press and swapping screens and plates is time consuming, hence the high cost of small runs.

    I'd wager that DS carts are identical, therefore their manufacture is continuous. Sure, different data needs to be uploaded to different carts, but the carts are probably all the same. Uploading data is a very quick process, perhaps even quicker than pressing CDs so I'd guess costs are comparible.

    Anyone got hard facts on this?

    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 20:02

  • lucky_jim #86 2 years ago

    One factor which nobody has yet mentioned is the App Store. In many cases, I can get a pretty-much-exact copy of a DS game which costs £30 for 59p- £5.99 on my iPhone (GTA and Phoenix Wright spring to mind). I could jailbreak my iPhone and pirate all those games, I know how to find everything I need and how to go about it, but the idea seems a bit absurd to me, because the prices are reasonable.

    I'm not sure this is an excuse for piracy (I'm inclined to say not), but it's a simple fact that Nintendo's absurd pricing for handheld games has contributed more to piracy than anything else. The same was true in the GBA days. Handheld games are almost never worth the same amount of money as Xbox 360 games. People are saying "but they cost money to develop", which is obviously true: but look at the difference in development costs between the DS and 360/PS3, and compare that to the much smaller difference in price.

    Again, I'm not saying this justifies piracy, this isn't like the movie or music businesses where the difference can be made up to some extent with cinemas and concerts. But it's obvious to anybody with more than half a brain that handheld games are way, way overpriced on everything but the iPhone and similarly powered smartphones. Overcharging is only ever going to make piracy more likely.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 20:03

  • TheNinkyNonk #87 2 years ago

    And I think the issue of fewer decent titles on the DS in recent times is down to more than just piracy (if indeed piracy is an issue). This is a pattern that we have seen on all Nintendo consoles / handhelds and Nintendo by their own admission recognise this problem. Once they've made a killing on cheap, off-the-shelf hardware and the first round of their old franchises being wheeled out, they seem reluctant to foster good third-party support and experiment with new IP of their own. It's a business strategy that seems to work for them, if not the consumer with the dust-magnet GCs, DSs and Wiis.
    Edited by 2 at 28/07/10 @ 22:16

  • CallousB #88 2 years ago

    "The DS Marjket is still very healthy and not suffering"
    @Caimbeul

    The 45% drop in European DS game sales in the last year sounds like a bit of suffering to me.

    "Also if "R4's" are illegal. what about "Edge cards and other variants?? "

    From what I've read the R4 and all other similar devices are now illegal in the UK. The R4 is just the poster boy as it's the best known.
    If it does what the R4 does..then it's illegal.
    Edited by 2 at 28/07/10 @ 20:26

  • SpaceMonkey77 #89 2 years ago

    @smelly

    Granted, and this is why Nintendo keep holding off a UMD like media for their handhelds, and onto carts with parts. Nintendo do not want to offer a cheaper means of handheld game development, a real shame after iphone's success.

    Nintendo could easily go DL games only for 3DS, who knows. Anyway, this is getting boring.

    As for DS aps, I liked Colors DS a lot, still use it but will have to get the iPhone version next. Nitrotracker I haven't been able to run, but I love the idea of it. I used to have crazy fun with Fast Tracker back in the day on PC, so I may give it another go at some point. Haven't tried any of the Spectrum emulators, but I've been trying to run NeoDS, so I can get some Neo Geo action on the go.

    @lucky jim
    Totally agree. This is why iPhone is such a success. Games are reasonably priced and there are plenty of them, with demos to entice. Thus, iPhone piracy is very low. So nice to see some one challenge DS and succeed.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 20:43

  • smelly #90 2 years ago

    >Nintendo could easily go DL games only for 3DS, who knows

    Dont 3ds games go to a couple of gig big? Seem to remember reading that somewhere...

    Download only wont work.. sony found that out with the psp-go. Game shops wont stock a console where they cant make money from the games.. without your game console in stores - wont sell... It's not like the iphone/ipod where it does something other than games...

    Also there's a hell of a lot of shit on the ap store...

    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 20:47

  • smelly #91 2 years ago

    >Thus, iPhone piracy is very low

    Actually it really isnt.. But horses for courses.

  • MeBrains #92 2 years ago

    waw... surprised to see i am at -22 now. When I posted, I thought it would get positive karma, as I expected that a lot of Wii owners would have done the same thing. Being at -22 actually makes me happy, because grom is right that good games deserve to be paid for.

    ...

    it's just that I am not willing to pay for them. I rather sit it out, not catch the initial release wave and buy some kind of platinum, best of, goty or whatever a year or more after. Thing is that very very few games surprise me the last 15 years. They all seem to be rehashes of things I have played before, with notable exceptions. I modded the Wii, played some "backups" and found most of them to be... largely more of the same. Now, I would still buy Mario and Zelda when they'd get discounted, because they are good, if not great games, but to me they are just not worth €60. Apparently, to others they are and continue to be, so I do understand Nintendo as well...

    varsas: where I live, no bargains on these games. again: if there would be, I would bite in an instant.

  • Golgo #93 2 years ago

    @MeBrains: What a wonderfully convoluted excuse to justify being a thief. Well done.

  • RobotRocker #94 2 years ago

    Actually it really isnt.. But horses for courses.

    [link url=http://wosblog.podgamer.com/2010/01 /15/the-most-spurious-piracy-figures-ever/
    ]http://wo sblog.podgamer.com/2010/01/15/t...[/link]

    This article makes people fling poo like chimps on caffeine and is always fun to link.

    Enjoy kids. ;)

  • miiiguel #95 2 years ago

    I never understood these arguments (including that one robotrocker), thing is, someone makes a program and sells it for a price, on the other hand one either thinks it deserves and pays or think it does not, and don't. What's this thing about "it's crap", "too expensive": "it's so successful I might steal, no one notices" and what not ?! It's a simple basic civilization issue.

  • CaptainKid #96 2 years ago

    I don't need an excuse to pirate games or films.
    I recorded songs from the radio as a kid, recorded films from TV, copied disks on my Amiga, bought burned CD's for the Playstation and now download it from the internet.

    Nothing has changed excpet its way easier now and game and film publishers make WAY more money now and cry WAY more about pirating..

  • miiiguel #97 2 years ago

    That's more like it, embrace your principles. No one realy believes those excuses, it's just a matter of money. As always.

  • MeBrains #98 2 years ago

    golgo: yeah. it really might be, might it not?

    I also am surprised about how much hostility is shown towards "pirates". And I wonder about some of your ages. When I grew up, an awful lot was pirated: we copied LP's, cassettes, video game cassettes (damn hard to do!), 5 1/4 floppies, 3 1/2 floppies, VHS tapes etc. It all seemed to be normal back then...

    At this moment, thanks to the corporations' propaganda against it and as this thread shows, it does not seem to be anymore. We prefer to make these corporations insanely rich, since it is the "nice thing to do". Ninty makes billions (again, in this day and age, I do understand them); yet my plea to make older games cheaper drops into karma hell? How quaint.

    I have kids and have made one of them cry, because he arrived outside the super market with a pack of sweets which was not asked to, thus not paid by me. I called in security and told the little kid to apologize and hand over the sweets. He was crying like hell.

    But I am much inconsisent: the other day I bought to barrels of oil and only one was scanned, which I didn't mention. The same kid wondered about it and I explained this to him: almost every time I go to the supermarket and I take the time to do so, I find mistakes on the bill. Some of these are over a 10% difference in price I should pay. These differences consistently are in the supermarket's favor, so I continuously wonder how much I lose every year. The weird thing is that as time goes its way, the more I get strange and angry looks from fellow-customers (!) because of me complaining about getting back the 5 euros or so, I overpaid. I 'hold up the line' or something - don't know, don't give a damn, so I told him, that whenever I get away with e.g. a barrel of oil, I would - just to balance out the extra invisible profit supermarkets make on me. As a genuine question to the group: if I would not do that, would that make the supermarkets thieves as well in your opinions?

  • lucky_jim #99 2 years ago

    Sorry to keep nipping in here with random comments, but another thought just struck me... I've got a lot more sympathy for devs than publishers. And, unless I've been misled in my 25 years of gaming, devs getting dicked around by publishers us a far bigger problem for their cash-flow than piracy.

    Anyway, I'll stop now before I convince myself to take up piracy. I don't agree with it, I just think that very, very few things are nice and clear cut, and this issue certainly isn't one of them: despite what publishers tell us.

  • miiiguel #100 2 years ago

    Anyways, another argument pro-piracy I don't understand is why it's ok (read other posts) for some to pirate but not (literaly) everybody ? I think that'd be the way for it to be fair. Everything free for everybody (I think there's a flaw in this system, somewhere...).

  • Lusterpurge #101 2 years ago

    Piracy doesn't help developers in ANY way. It just hurts them more. People like to come up with excuses for being greedy, much worse than the publishers they pretend to complain about.

  • smelly #102 2 years ago

    @RobotRocker: Ah.. I KNEW someone would post a shitty article about piracy from the saviour of the pirates himself.. mr campbell.. who by the way is a MAJOR hypocrite... Let me present to you - mr campbell versus EMAP..

    <a href="http://www.ntk.net/199 8/01/23/
    ">http://www.ntk.net/199 8/01/23/
    </a>

    Threatened to sue EMAP for two person-years of writer's salaries for copyright violation...


    Nothing like a good dose of hypocripsy from someone who claims piracy doesnt harm anyone is there?
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 22:22

  • Goodfella #103 2 years ago

    I had an R4 but since sold my DS as the games just don't interest me, staring at a small screen just isn't enjoyable to me in my old age, not even for free (I bought my fair share too and felt ripped off)

    Personally I think DS games are massively overpriced when you factor in the development costs, the retail prices are not much below big budget PS3/360 titles, that simply isn't right.

  • RobotRocker #104 2 years ago

    KNEW someone would post a shitty article about piracy from the saviour of the pirates himself.. mr campbell.. who by the way is a MAJOR hypocrite... Let me present to you - mr campbell versus EMAP..

    EMAP was creating profit from copyrighted work that they had not paid Mr. Cambell and Mr. Nash for or even informed them that they wished to use it on a cover disc. Mr. Cambell and Mr. Nash had every right to claim copyright and initiate legal proceedings from unauthorized use.

    The R4 is not profiting off copyrighted work as it is a blank slate. It is up to the user if they want to load copyrighted work on the device. But you fail to see that and are instead posting terrible strawman arguments.

    P.S. I know you never read that article.

  • miiiguel #105 2 years ago

    ^ don't fool yourself, if someone is "hurting" your pocket you're not going to go semantics, either it be mr. Big Company CEO, or your spiritual guru mr. Campebell. Make no mistake, it all changes when it's your money.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 22:48

  • shotgun44 #106 2 years ago

    I don't exactly hang around with thieves and vagrants but I have yet to meet anyone, ever, in person, that could give a shit either way about piracy. I just can't imagine being at work and have someone secretly fuming away in the corner that I gave my mate a copy of a decent album I just bought. Life's too short to totter around on some moral high horse and as far as i was aware most people would feel the same way.

  • Serai #107 2 years ago

    Its a non-issue people: have them make R5 where everything loads of the memory card, and presto, a bypassed judge.. Unless they want to ban all blank media, that is..

  • lucky_jim #108 2 years ago

    After all this discussion, baiting and debating, a few things have crystallised for me.

    1- Piracy will always be here, on every platform, to varying degrees. All platform holders and publishers can hope to do is make it as inconvenient as possible. However, too many of them forget that the corollary of this is that they should make legitimate purchasing as convenient as possible, which includes pricing and distribution. The music industry seems to be learning this lesson, slowly and painfully. Learning from the mistakes of others would show a level of maturity that, alas, I don't think the games industry's bigwigs have.

    2- The problem with these carts is that they make piracy too damn easy, to the degree that it threatens the future of the platform. I see as many cracked 360 games for download as I do DS ones, but I (and most others) wouldn't know how to go about using them. Conversely, almost everyone I know with a DS has an R4-style cart, including old people and casual gamers who'd normally never go near that kinda thing. I can't remember the last time I saw a DS on the tube with a proper cartridge in it, and I always have a sneaky look. That's a situation which clearly can't continue, so I'm not too upset about this ban.

    3- That said, this ban is logically indefensible imo. If you follow it through to its logical conclusion, anything that can be used for copyright infringement should be banned, which would pretty much take us back to the stone age. Also, Nintendo take the piss with their pricing, so I'm not too sympathetic to them and their bags of cash.

    4- People who don't work in the industry but get furious about piracy are a bit weird, but I feel like that about anybody who furiously defends a corporate interest without being paid to do so. More importantly, unless the people in question have never, ever taped a song off the radio, copied a CD, recorded a film off the telly etc., they're being hypocritical. We all need a bit of hypocrisy now and then to get us through life, but at least be honest with yourselves about it. For my part, I'm generally anti-piracy, and have only ever had pirated software on my Amiga (when I was a teenager, i.e. young and stupid) and on my DS (rarely, but I've still done it even though I know it's out of order). Yep, that makes me a hypocrite on this matter. That's why I wouldn't call anybody who does it a "thieving cunt" or whatever. Let he who is without sin, and all that.

    I think I've done enough fence-sitting for one day (it's because I'm genuinely in two minds about this issue and have given it thought), so I'll leave it there.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 23:25

  • RobotRocker #109 2 years ago

    ^ don't fool yourself, if someone is "hurting" your pocket you're not going to go semantics, either it be mr. Big Company CEO, or your spiritual guru mr. Campebell. Make no mistake, it all changes when it's your money.

    Strawman and an Ad Hominem in the same post? You are too generous. I love you crazy kids.

    I've had my own work in TV and press copied numerous times. In fact, I had an article I put up on indymedia wholesale lifted by a major national. So I know, what the process and impact of having your own stuff Shanghai'd is like. But I can still see the bullshit in the judges decision and the incessant bullshit in trying to white knight the industry over it when they have told porkies and exaggerated the impact of piracy numerous times before. The fact that people are defending said incessant bullshit is frankly ridiculous.

    Cambell ain't my guru either so you are well out of luck on that attack as well (Unless he can tell me where you can get decent root beer in London without breaking the bank)

  • BuddyChrist #110 2 years ago

    Lookout you skumbag criminal dregs of the waste! Yeah, you going dowwwn!

    *whispers*
    Keep your head down. The first few dudes to get caught will be sued for millions as an example.

    Now back to my healthy, fully paid for ds game collection..... Oh, sod this facade. Ds games are crud in every way - except the rare fun ones.

    Pirating made the ds good because you can have 30 odd games in one cartridge, and you didn't have to fork out full price for loosing a few hours on a naff, poorly rendered game.

    Answer: embrace.
    ITune ds games. Membership fee. Utilise similar tech. Everyones happy.... Except nintendo, because they'd have to use new technology (I'm sorry but the wii is a userfriendly gamecube)

    The new law has just risen the desirability.




  • miiiguel #111 2 years ago

    Hey, hey, I'm no white knighty (though I wish I was a kid), I'm as nihilist as one can be - I'm as interested in someone who pirates games bank account as I'm in any companies lost profits, and that's zero - though the issue is *money*, either you look at CEO, or poor consumer, it all comes down to money - there's no priciples here, that's the real BS.
    Someone who pirates is not trying to making something right, ffs, it's just a way of saving money to spend in some shit which cannot be pirated, simple as. Edukators? yeah, talk about high horses.

  • ulix #112 2 years ago

    Just buy a Supercard or some other product (I'm very satisfied with my Supercard DS One though).

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #113 2 years ago

    "Obviously too late to repair the damage done to the DS market.. "

    Yeah, because the DS has been SUCH a failure. Poor old Nintendo hardly have any money left because of it.

    Fucking idiot.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #114 2 years ago

    "The 45% drop in European DS game sales in the last year sounds like a bit of suffering to me. "

    Indeed. Now demonstrate to us using facts and evidence that that drop was due to piracy rather than, for example, the DS not having seen a decent game for anyone aged over 9 in a year and a half.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #115 2 years ago

    "Cambell ain't my guru either so you are well out of luck on that attack as well (Unless he can tell me where you can get decent root beer in London without breaking the bank) "

    I don't live in London, so I wouldn't know. Can't you just buy Listerine, which tastes much the same?

    I happen to know, however, that J Walker - another freakish root beer lover - recommends the stuff supplied by this place, which comes to just over £1 a can for a case of 24 shipped:
    [link url=http://www.americansoda.co.uk/uk/American -Soda/Home/Drinks/default.aspx
    ]http://ww w.americansoda.co.uk/uk/America...[/link]

  • lucky_jim #116 2 years ago

    Oh hello Stu, was wondering when you'd get here! Top work on that article RobotRocker linked to, I remember thinking when those "stats" were released that they smelt a bit fishy. I don't generally believe anyone who tries to tell me that one pirated copy equals one lost sale, but it was nice to see that so-called data ripped apart like that.
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/10 @ 09:43

  • Zomeguy #117 2 years ago

    >Let he who is without sin, and all that.

    I don't own a flash cart, but let's stay a bit rational here. This is all about money, not about sin or morality.
    This whole "digital theft" thing is based on completely artifical (copyright) law, making money of non pysical content is not a god given right.

  • dwalker109 #118 2 years ago

    I'm somewhere in the middle on this - it isn't as black and white as some people like to make out (though any justification for piracy beyond an honest admission of greed is a bit futile, in my opinion).

    I own a NDS, and one of the other Flashcart piracy devices. I only bought a DS because I knew these devices existed, and have never purchased a DS cart. I am obviously not alone in this, so it is worth bearing in mind that these devices have increased NDS hardware sales a great deal. This is not any sort of mitigation or justification - it is merely an interesting talking point.

    I have not and would not chip any of the three main consoles, because if I did, I suspect I would not be able to resist the urge to download and play for free. This is the "stick" approach to DRM, and it works.

    I would not jailbreak my iPhone, because Apple have offered a mutually acceptable solution - fair pricing and easy delivery. This is the "carrot" approach. I feel it works very well.

    I do feel that the "homebrew" argument (and the quotes are intentional) is pretty ridiculous. The "freedom" argument is also ridiculous, and cheapens people's need for actual freedom from something - oppression, for example.
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/10 @ 16:13

  • BillObvMadeUpName #119 2 years ago

    I was reading that ntk link and it led me via a twisting path to here

    [link url=http://flattopscotch.wordpress.com/ 2010/06/30/piracy-is-a-ok-says-government/
    ]http://fl attopscotch.wordpress.com/2010/...[/link]

    A bit of a facetious article but what a shit thing to do to an indie dev

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #120 2 years ago

    "but what a shit thing to do to an indie dev "

    Better or worse than shitting all over the work of a highly talented iPhone coder who did a great job on an app because you have a poisonous obsession with the designer he worked with?