Dreamcast: A Forensic Retrospective

By Dan Whitehead Published 1 February, 2009

Ten years on, it still rocks.

In the annals of console history, the Dreamcast is often portrayed as a small, square, white plastic JFK. A progressive force in some ways, perhaps misguided in others, but nevertheless a promising life cut tragically short by dark shadowy forces, spawning complex conspiracy theories that endure to this day. So to celebrate the tenth anniversary of its launch, which passed recently, Eurogamer is going all CSI to consider who - or what - killed the Dreamcast.

Was it grinchy old EA, withholding the precious lifeblood of its licensed sports games? Or did the fiendish pirates help to sink the SEGA ship, cracking the GD-ROM format and allowing anyone with a CD burner to brazenly copy Dreamcast games? Or was it that big mean bully Sony, tucked away on the grassy knoll, blowing the head off the competition with a bullet of ruthless PR chicanery?

By November 1998, when the Dreamcast first arrived in Japanese shops, it had been ten long years since the popular Megadrive, a decade punctuated by a triple whammy of high-profile hardware mistakes. The SEGA CD add-on was the first, an over-priced and poorly supported multimedia attachment for the Megadrive that relied on the thankfully short-lived craze for FMV-based "interactive movies". Customers soon wised up to the fact that beneath the grainy video footage, they really weren't getting any more gameplay for their money. Following up this clunky bit of kit with the even more pointless 32X add-on merely deepened SEGA's malaise in 1994.

Another expensive add-on, the 32X flopped hard, selling less than a quarter of a million units. Software support was virtually non-existent, and the whole sorry affair was brushed under the rug in less than a year. SEGA fans who had faithfully bought each new product were left with pricey lumps of plastic and a severe case of buyer's remorse. It didn't help that the 32X was developed by SEGA's American arm, allegedly unaware that at the same time their Japanese colleagues were working on the SEGA Saturn.

'Dreamcast: A Forensic Retrospective' Screenshot 1

By E3 1997, SEGA had given up on the Saturn.

Released a few months ahead of Sony's dark horse PlayStation, the Saturn seemed poised to restore SEGA's console fortunes. But SEGA hadn't banked on Sony successfully appealing to a wider audience, with PlayStation's clubland aesthetic and slicker image, and with the Saturn's internal architecture proving something of a tangle, many developers switched their attention to Sony's more accessible and successful platform. Despite fairly strong sales in Japan, the system struggled in America and Europe and soon found itself trailing in third place behind the PlayStation and Nintendo 64. With dwindling third-party support, SEGA's American head honcho Bernie Stolar announced at E3 in 1997 that "the Saturn is not our future".

Coming off a run of three high-profile failures, SEGA took the unusual step of getting two competing R&D teams to come up with a console capable of putting the company back on top. One team was based in Japan, the other in the US. Both had different ideas as to which combination of chips and parts would fit the bill, and the American team signed a deal with 3dfx to use a custom version of the company's Voodoo 2 graphics chip. Unfortunately, during the development period, 3dfx was looking to sell shares and as part of the documentation it revealed lots of juicy details regarding the top-secret SEGA console. The US plan was ditched and SEGA opted to go with the Japanese design, prompting the newly floated 3dfx stock to drop by 43 per cent. 3dfx filed a lawsuit, claiming breach of contract. The case was quickly settled out of court, but it was the sort of speedbump that SEGA could ill afford.

After a tepid Japanese debut launched the console with a resounding thud in November 1998, we poor saps in America and Europe would have to wait almost a year to get our hands on it. Finally going global in the autumn of 1999, the Dreamcast swiftly made up for its poor Japanese performance, breaking US sales records by clocking up 300,000 pre-orders and shifting over 500,000 units in the first two weeks.

'Dreamcast: A Forensic Retrospective' Screenshot 2

We still would.

It was a deserved success, carried on the shoulders of solid technical specifications and innovative new features. The Dreamcast wasn't the first console to offer online functions - even the SNES had tentatively dipped a toe in those waters - but it was the first to come with a modem built in and its own ISP for online gaming, thus enabling online play for all, rather than those who purchased a chunky peripheral. It was also the first to offer a memory card that doubled as a gaming device in its own right, with the Visual Memory Unit able to download mini-games, swap data with friends and act as a rudimentary battery-guzzling personal organiser.

It's true that Electronic Arts opted not to support the system, denying the Dreamcast the guaranteed sales that brands like Madden provided, but contrary to what the conspiracy theorists will tell you the Dreamcast software line-up managed just fine thanks to the SEGA Sports label. SEGA's own NFL 2K1, marketed as the first football game with online play, even outsold the official Madden game during its first weeks on the market. Away from the sports field, the games were just as popular. Exclusive titles like Sonic Adventure and Power Stone showcased SEGA's bright and bold aesthetic, while nigh-perfect arcade ports like Soul Calibur and Crazy Taxi put the aging PlayStation to shame.

But there was already a fly in the ointment, and the fly was called Sony. In March 1999, realising that SEGA was about to leapfrog a hardware generation and get its next-gen machine on the shelves first, Sony had publicly unveiled PlayStation 2 - then still a year away from release. The prospect of the successor to the world-conquering PlayStation was enough to cut the already wobbly legs off the Dreamcast in Japan, with most gamers opting to wait for the sure-to-be-awesome PS2, with its mysterious "emotion engine" and games that would literally emerge from the screen and fellate you senseless.

Even in the west, as the PlayStation 2 drew closer the Dreamcast lost momentum. It was at this point that the legacy of SEGA's worthless Megadrive expansions and the fumbled Saturn came back to haunt the company. In what would become a grim self-fulfilling prophecy, many punters were understandably quicker to put their cash towards the established and widely loved PlayStation brand rather than risk ending up with another SEGA system with few games and no long-term future.

In the face of such competition, the Dreamcast's technical features proved of little value. SEGA, arguably about five years ahead of its time, had gambled on the importance of online play but console gamers in 2000 were a lot less interested in networked games than their PC counterparts. Back then, MMORPG was just a really bad handful of Scrabble tiles, so a pioneering effort like Phantasy Star Online just wasn't what joypad lovers were looking for. With the PlayStation 2 doubling as a DVD player, a desirable technology that had just tipped over into mass-market must-have status, the ability to play Chu Chu Rocket over the internet wasn't likely to turn the tide in Dreamcast's favour.

As the PS2 sold more and more on its epic ten-year journey to become the world's best-selling games console, Dreamcast sales dried up. In March 2001, a mere two years after the Dreamcast's impressive US launch, SEGA announced that not only was it discontinuing production on the console, but it was withdrawing from the hardware side of the industry altogether. The words "end of an era" don't even begin to cover it.

'Dreamcast: A Forensic Retrospective' Screenshot 3

One of the DC's best, but by now it was too late.

If you want a snapshot of how fast the Dreamcast died then consider the fact that in June 2001, only a few months after becoming a software-only publisher, SEGA released Crazy Taxi for the PS2. By Christmas you could pick up a brand new Dreamcast, plus a game, for less than GBP 70. And in June 2003, SEGA finally switched off almost all the Dreamcast servers, with only Phantasy Star Online kept alive on digital life support. It seemed that the last embers of SEGA's hardware empire had finally sputtered out.

The story doesn't quite end there though. Despite being pronounced dead, the Dreamcast lived on in Japan - the nation so underwhelmed by it at launch - long past its official expiration date. Shops still sold the console until as recently as 2006, and new software is still being produced today by the indie community - albeit sporadically. For reasons that may never be fully understood, the Japanese shoot-'em-up fraternity decided that the Dreamcast was the place to be, giving the system a stay of execution with cult favourites like Ikaruga hitting in 2002 and Triggerheart Exelica in 2007. It's not exactly a new lease of life, but it's certainly a testament to the appeal of the sleek white brick.

At least SEGA the console maker went out on a high - in critical terms if not commercial. It was petite, stylish and many of the ideas it pioneered have since become standard features for the current console generation. SEGA was certainly visionary in its championing of an online future, while the connectivity between the Dreamcast and its VMU was but a taster of the cross-platform content sharing now at the heart of the PS3 and PSP, and the Wii and DS. For Japanese gamers, the Dreamcast was the first console to have its own digital camera, and the first to feature a karaoke game with microphone peripherals. With the separate VGA adaptor and 60Hz PAL capability it was even, technically speaking, one of the first HD consoles, even if it could only muster 480p resolution. So much of what the Dreamcast offered forms the core of the console wars today, and yet at the time nobody seemed bothered.

'Dreamcast: A Forensic Retrospective' Screenshot 4

Off the hook.

The Dreamcast was arguably the right console at the wrong time, but who struck the killer blow? Probably not Sony, although it's hard to begrudge Dreamcast fans their lingering resentment that a technologically inferior console with a fairly dire line-up of early titles was able to so easily steamroller their beloved box just on the basis of brand loyalty. Sony certainly did its best to spoil the Dreamcast launch with its carefully timed PS2 announcement, and can therefore perhaps take a hefty chunk of the blame for the console's limp performance in Japan, but to say that Sony killed the Dreamcast would be a gross overstatement.

Ditto for Electronic Arts. Its lack of support for the system was merely a symptom of the real problem rather than the cause. The Dreamcast simply came too late in SEGA's hardware decline to reverse a long-running downward trend. For all its technological innovations and excellent games, SEGA's misadventures during the 1990s had left both gamers and publishers wary of any new platform bearing its name. Confidence in any new SEGA console was low, and with the PlayStation brand in the ascendancy such trepidation was enough to ensure that the Dreamcast would always struggle to maintain its early momentum in the face of stiff competition. Even if it had shipped with a champagne fountain and a nozzle that fired a constant stream of chocolate and diamonds into the player's lap, it seems likely that many potential owners would still have adopted a "wait and see" attitude.

The Dreamcast died and, perversely, in doing so it may have sealed its reputation as one of the greatest consoles ever. Nothing builds a cult like a tragic demise, especially when so much potential is left unfulfilled. There's a reason why few people get misty-eyed for the Saturn, but are inspired to passionate defence and blissful nostalgia by the Dreamcast. It's not the technology, or even the brand. It's the games. With that in mind, we've come up with a rundown of the best of the bunch, and of course our own Dreamcast Cult Classics.

Picture of Dan.

About Dan Whitehead

Dan has been writing for Eurogamer since 2006 and specialises in RPGs, shooters and games for children. His bestest game ever is Julian Gollop's Chaos.

Read more articles from Dan by visiting the Dan Whitehead archive page.

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Comments (206) 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • onezeonx #1 3 years ago

    i LOVED my dreamcast and some of the games look great even today!!

    Top machine....ruined by mainstream idiots :p

  • ChrisOTR #2 3 years ago

    A great machine - F355, Shenmue, Power Stone and Jet Set Radio were just *wonderful* games.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 08:54

  • Xerx3s #3 3 years ago

    "thankfully short-lived craze for FMV-based "interactive movies""

    Sorry but it was awesome and a fucking shame that it was abandoned due to cost. Some of the most awesome games ever where fmv.

  • bad09 #4 3 years ago

    Sony had a HUGE impact on Dreamcast, nearly every gamer I knew was waiting. "You should get a dreamcast it's f**king wicked!" I'd say only to hear the reply "nah, I'm waiting for PS2 that's gonna be much better". So blind. Mind you it was those very people who helped keep my DC and SC running for practically 24 hours once (i'm not joking!), thank heaven for purified water cooling! :)

    Dreamcast was the the best console ever for me. Coming from the joys of the PS1/Saturn era SEGA just seemed to hit the right buttons, not just in the software but the, accessories like guns and wheels that were designed to go with the console, the strange little gameboy-like memory cards, the internet - even though it was pretty unworkable for the time, the weird controllers that actually felt surprisingly natural (and the father of my favourite, the 360 controller I'd say).

    It was actually a downer coming to the dull old PS2 from that, sure the greats came along on PS2 but gaming died a little for me after my DC died, and I've never really recovered - except for the initial joy of 360 launch, I was full of hope then but as it turned out the focus on certain genres this gen while others fall away and die (and how DLC is not exaclty what I was hoping for back then) is truly heartbreaking :(

    Anyway nice read EG, I always remember it's good to be a gamer when DC is mentioned. Special mention to my babies.

    MvC2
    SF3 - 3rd Strike
    SC
    Crazy Taxi
    Blue Stinger - I don't care what anyone says it was actually good
    RE: CV - Ah, RESIDENT EVIL. Shame they never made any more in that series ;)
    House Of The Dead 2 - possibly the best lightgun game ever made
    Sword Of The Beserk
    F355 - sweet...
    EP1 Racer - best version
    Sonic Adventure
    Hidden And Dangerous
    Oh and a little game called Shenmue

    / group hugs SEGA and all the DC fans

    (If SEGA did go back into hardware I'd buy in a second!)

    EDIT: Holy crap! How did I forget PS in my list of babies???!!!!
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 09:15

  • Xerx3s #5 3 years ago

    "In March 1999, realising that SEGA was about to leapfrog a hardware generation and get its next-gen machine on the shelves first, Sony had publicly unveiled PlayStation 2 - then still a year away from release. The prospect of the successor to the world-conquering PlayStation was enough to cut the already wobbly legs off the Dreamcast in Japan, with most gamers opting to wait for the sure-to-be-awesome PS2, with its mysterious "emotion engine" and games that would literally emerge from the screen and fellate you senseless."

    Still works today.

  • dpb135 #6 3 years ago

    The DC was an awesome machine with great games. Shamed mine has now died. Found my copy of bleemcast which let you run GT2 on it and how much better it looked to......

  • bad09 #7 3 years ago

    @ Xerx3s

    It does work, TBH I reckon that why there is so much hate to Sony these days and they never deliver what they promise anyway..

    Oh, and I forgot MSR! Real time lighting, watching the sun set in your game and out your window, wicked!

  • Krelle #8 3 years ago

    To call the DC one of the greatest consoles ever is nothing but nostalgia speaking.
    I love it and its games, but its no better than often heavily criticized consoles like GC and N64.

  • Pikol #9 3 years ago

    Shenmue...sonic...great times :)

  • bad09 #10 3 years ago

    "To call the DC one of the greatest consoles ever is nothing but nostalgia speaking.
    I love it and its games, but its no better than often heavily criticized consoles like GC and N64. "

    Come off it, I loved N64 and GC but they were not worthy of being in the same room as DC ;)

  • themerlin13 #11 3 years ago

    It had pretend HD if you had a vga box and a handy monitor which made SC in particular at the time mind blowing.

    Now all thats left of one of the parents of gaming is a yearly release of yet another crap sonic!

    VIVA LA DREAMCAST!! ahem.....sorry.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 09:33

  • Xerx3s #12 3 years ago

    I disagree with the conclusion. You can grab the same given facts and equally well swing them in every other direction.

  • Krelle #13 3 years ago

    but really, bad09. if you look past the shimmer and the fact that the DC looks good (the hardware itself), the game library is in the same league as N64/GC/Xbox, and not even close to giants like ps2/Snes.

    Personally I have no other way to judge a console than to look at its games library.

  • DarrylKC #14 3 years ago

    A console is only as good as its games and the Dreamcast had as many great games per overall games release on the console as any other. It had a great technical specification yet because the games became so easily pirated I'm sure this added to its demise. Personally, I can hold my head up and say I bought (and still have) all but one of the great games mentioned in the classic "dreamcast dozen" - still some of my favourite all-time games! Though I have to admit I also enjoyed playing Sonic and Rayman on the Dreamcast.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #15 3 years ago

    It wasn't Sony, EA or pirates who killed the DC, it was Sega. They loaded up a giant marketing blunderbuss and then blasted themselves in both feet, the bollocks, the guts, the nose (to spite their face) and finally the head. They pissed away almost their entire European budget on sponsoring Arsenal, who then proceeded to win diddly, while Sony wisely spent less cash on attaching their name to the entire Champions League rather than one also-ran competitor in it.

    Sega then focused all their advertising on the fact that you could compete against "six billion players" using the DC's laughable 56K modem, casually glossing over the fact that the system was region-locked so you couldn't play against someone in Japan even if you COULD both get a decent connection, which you couldn't, and if there were any decent online games, which there weren't. The campaign was so stupid it even proved to be illegal, with the company forced by the courts to stop making the claim on the grounds that it was a palpable lie.

    The DC needed to be pushed as the Sega Super Arcade 3000, concentrating on its strengths - fantastic, pixel-perfect conversions of all the most successful arcade games of the era, all enhanced and expanded for home use, and groundbreaking spectaculars like Shenmue. It needed TV ads full of stunning footage of Soul Calibur, not lots of arty bullshit that didn't show potential purchasers any games, at a time when the DC was visibly and massively superior to the competition (the PS1 and N64). In short, Sega needed to sell what they had, not what they imagined they might have five years later. The idiots.
    Edited by 2 at 01/02/09 @ 09:56

  • sweetcheeks #16 3 years ago


    y'up it is true sony did pretty much kill sega off.

    but i always felt the 360 is the re-incarnation of the dreamcast,
    back from the grave to kick sonys ass

    - vey similar colour console boxes.
    - very very similar colour schemes on the control pads.
    - the same man Peter Moore behind both projets


    its true
    http://ww w.edge-online.com/news/peter-mo...

  • tomb85 #17 3 years ago

    @ Rev. Stuart - spot on.

    Ultimately Sony's plan to make people wait for the PS2 only worked because their marketing department was better at getting the message out than Sega's. I had 4 player sessions that lasted into the early hours on my DC with friends that were completely astounded by what the console could do. They simply envisaged it as being Sega's Playstation 1.5

    I think it's also important to remember the damage that PS2 backwards compatibility did to the Dreamcast as well though. Useless feature or not it was one of the key factors in stopping the afore-mentioned PSX-owning friends from shelling out for the DC.

  • GamesConnoisseur #18 3 years ago

    Yes Sega did make some weak decisions and the reputation from previous hardware/expensive add ons sticks. But for me going back to the time, PS2 did NOT really have great games from get go, they only got better as times goes on. DC never got chance to attract the attention from both gamers and devs as Sony's marketing dept were too excellent at selling their 'next gen' console with loads of emotive promises!

    I mean Emotion Engine was heavily mentioned, referred to in every gaming magzines, forums and in games shops. I have had same experience of friends holding back from DC and said nah would be inferior than PS2 and best get the most powerful console in the world!

    Resident Evil Code Veronica proved to me that the supposed superiority of PS2 over DC is not accurate! There were few others multi platform games that DC looked/performed better but yes the actual hardware was better on PS2 as bore out by the later games.

    If wasnt for the hype machine I would have tought Sega would not pull out as early and that more games would have been available with more happy DC owners. DC is not still here but I still have enough excellent gaming pleasure from it.

    Thank you DC, you will always be fondly remembered.

  • kobashi #19 3 years ago

    Rev. Stuart Campbell

    I had Japanese version of the PSO games and played online with US and European gamers. PSO was worldwide and was brilliant online!

    NFL 2K1 and 2K2 were superb online even with a 56k modem. I had no problem playing against people in the US. You could have your friend talking trash on the keyboard while you go for touchdowns! Pretty sure Quake III was not region locked online. Quake III or Unreal Tournament with Mouse and Keyboard controls was happy days. :)

    Powerstone 2, SFIII: Third Strike, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2 were all online but you couldnt access the servers if you lived outside Japan. Even the PS2 versions all had the same problem for importers.

    I remember how bad Sega Europe's marketing was. They wouldnt show off the very nice looking games. Shenmue, RE: Code Veronica, Soul Calibur for example should of been pushed hard but wasnt.

    I remember Sega Europe advertising Tomb Raider on TV. It looked rubbish and was a bad PC port, the Dreamcast had better games at the the time and they decided to push Tomb Raider!!

    Love my DC, own over 90 games. :)
    Edited by 6 at 01/02/09 @ 10:26

  • tardo #20 3 years ago

    Nice article, although I'm not sure about the comment that people love Dreamcast more than Saturn? I'd find it hard to choose between both of them- although I do regret selling my Saturn and its games just before the Dreamcast's launch. Wish I'd kept it also.

  • Xerx3s #21 3 years ago

    "but really, bad09. if you look past the shimmer and the fact that the DC looks good (the hardware itself), the game library is in the same league as N64/GC/Xbox, and not even close to giants like ps2/Snes. "

    Comparing 2 years of games to 7+ years of games.


    ....

  • FooAtari #22 3 years ago

    The Dreamcast was awesome, probably my favourite console. But the stupid masses (probably slightly scared by the Saturn) bought into Sonys hype and largely ignored it. Tools.

    It had so many great games in pretty short life and the online functions worked pretty well too. The VMU's were slightly pointless but other than that I always thought it was a pertty complete system and deserved far more success than it got.

  • grandmaster Verified Director, Digital Foundry #23 3 years ago

    Did the Dreamcast really stiff at launch in Japan as Dan suggests?

    It was the only way to play Virtua Fighter 3 at home, and at that point in time, that would've made the Dreamcast a hugely successful launch, surely?

  • darrenb #24 3 years ago

    Personally for me the DC was never a flop, I own more DC titles and actually completed more titles that i have for any other machine.

    I agree with what someone said above, i had a PS1 which i enjoyed and was totally blown away when i got mt Dreamcase, Powerstone was just amazing as a uk launch title.. and as i remeber there was something like 20 titles available from launch too which was unheard of for the time. I then got a PS2 at launch and was totally underwhelmed and could not understand any off the hype surrounding the machine. For me the DC was leagues ahead in terms of gameplay shiny visuals..

    Segas problem was that because the Sony PR engine had made out that the PS2 was going to be a gift from the gods, most people didnt even look at the DC.. for the people that never experienced a DC the PS2 was like a gift from the gods.

    Additionally, at the time of the PS2 launch there were reports and unconfirmed rumours of underhand tactics by Sony marketing. Unwritten instructions were allegedly given to stores such as EB and Game advising them to relocate DC displays away from PS2 demo pods and generally ended up at the back of the store. this was all in return for a steady stock supply from distributers who took the "we dont have to sell to you" attitude..

  • Aretak #25 3 years ago

    Sega then focused all their advertising on the fact that you could compete against "six billion players" using the DC's laughable 56K modem, casually glossing over the fact that the system was region-locked so you couldn't play against someone in Japan even if you COULD both get a decent connection, which you couldn't, and if there were any decent online games, which there weren't.

    Sorry, but you're wrong about that.

    For a start, the Dreamcast had an even poorer modem in PAL territories, namely a 33.6k model. But that didn't stop online gaming on the Dreamcast being all but lag-free, even with a fast-paced game like Quake III Arena. In fact, I'd say I experienced less problems with lag via the Dreamcast's humble modem than I have in this generation with a 10Mb broadband connection.

    The system did also have some great online games, not least of which Phantasy Star Online (and v2), which remains one of the best online games ever made IMO. The aforementioned Quake III was also fantastic fun, along with others like Chu Chu Rocket, Alien Front Online, Worms World Party, Starlancer and Toy Racer.

    Sega made plenty of mistakes with the marketing side of things, but there was really nothing wrong at all with the Dreamcast's online gaming abilities, save for the fact that a lot of the best online titles were exclusive to North America or Japan.

  • The-Bodybuilder #26 3 years ago

    I haven't even read this article yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

    DREAMCAST 4 EVER (well, not quite forever, seeing as it died 10 years ago, but you know what I mean).

  • DarthCheesiest #27 3 years ago

    My lingering resentment is towards games journalists, I remember PCFormat saying this console was 'Dead in the Water' before Code Veronica was even out in the UK, how did they know that, I suppose they knew that studios were cancelling projects or something, others advised against the Dreamcast in favour of the upcoming PS2.

  • Scimarad #28 3 years ago

    I have never understood why the Dreamcast attracts such adoration...with one big exception: Skies of Arcadia. When I look back over all the consoles I've owned, Arcadia is pretty much the only reason I'd think about the DC.

  • munki83 #29 3 years ago

    God bless the Dreamcast one of the best consoles i've ever owned. Sure it was a little noisy at times but there were so many good games on it. Sony should be ashamed abbout what they did to it but Sega should still be proud of what they created.

  • jeff #30 3 years ago

    just a great console and some superb games,simple as that.

  • darrenb #31 3 years ago

    True, a lot have Dreamcast games have aged badly but for their time, compared to the alternatives they were so much more entertaining... just a shame joe public would rather watch epic cut scenes in games rather than actually play some pretty amazing arcade style titles.

    The Dreamcast was probably the last machine where games were what they were supposed to be, just GAMES, not some emulation of the cinema or arty filled bollocks..
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 11:05

  • login_name #32 3 years ago

    The words "end of an era" don't even begin to cover it.

    You got that right. It just hasn't been the same since.

    The Gamecube was ok, but this gen has been a bit of a let down for me. Most of the better games are PC or PC flavoured titles. Where are the console greats of old? Games like Crazy Taxi, Power Stone and Jet Set Radio*. Even Resident Evil has morphed into a dodgy third person shooter. It's all just a little too "Oh yeah, Woooo mutha fooka!" these days. Dare I say, a little too Western. We need more Eastern flavoured arcady craziness.

    Then again, maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm starting to get too old for this shit :(

    *I picked Dreamcast titles since that's more relevant to the article. Obviously the true console greats are from the 2D golden age of consoles ;)

  • Krelle #33 3 years ago

    Xerx3s:
    How is that important? It doesnt make the number of great games larger, doest it?

    Also, the random Sony-hate among EG commenters baffles me. You act like they killed your dog or sumthing.

  • The-Bodybuilder #34 3 years ago

    >"with most gamers opting to wait for the sure-to-be-awesome PS2, with its mysterious "emotion engine" and games that would literally emerge from the screen and fellate you senseless."

    NNNNNNRRRRGGGAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!
    Now I remember why I hated sony so much.

    YOU KILLED MY WHITE BABY.
    Does that sound weird?

    Anywho, it really was the sega hype that killed it. I mean, even with all the 3rd party support, would they have still won? Doubt it.
    Most of the people that got the ps2 weren't even gamers during sega's dominance, introduced (or re-introduced) to the world of gaming by Sony. They had no ties with sega.

    And the stupid emotion engine hype. Sony are such scums, they knew what they were doing. They even tried it again in this gen with the CELL.

  • The-Bodybuilder #35 3 years ago

    Rev's right.
    SEGA were MENTAL to blow their budget on just sponsoring arsenal, and I'm a freakin gooner.

  • sjmlondon #36 3 years ago

    I thought the Dreamcast was excellent at the time. I queued up outside Virgin Mega Stores in central London to get one at the midnight launch. Base unit, plus extra controller and about 3 games came to about £500.

    It had some great games, Powerstone, Soul Calibur, House of the Dead and that funny fishing game 'Super Bass Fishing' with a rod type controller, all great fun. I was gutted when it was dropped by Sega. That put me off console gaming for several years. I never bought into the PS2, even though I'd had a PS1 and, it was only the arrival of the Xbox and Xbox 360 that my my love of gaming has been renewed. Would love to see Powerstone on XBLA.

    I still have my Dreamcast, admittedly boxed up safely with a load of games. I might even dig it out and see if the beast still works.

  • Scimarad #37 3 years ago

    @ Bodybuilder

    Did you even read that article?

  • Ryze #38 3 years ago

    NICE!

    @onezeonx

    'Top machine....ruined by poor marketing and poor use of online functions in games :p'

    FIXED!

    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 11:30

  • The-Bodybuilder #39 3 years ago

    @ Scimarad

    Yes you twat, yes I did.
    However, just because the journalist came to one conclusion doesn't mean I have to either.
    I also love the way you overlooked my posted agreeing with the rev that sega's marketing did all the killing.

  • Scimarad #40 3 years ago

    Sorry, but I've just got so sick of the 'PS2 hype killed the DC' shit - Just give it a rest already...

  • caligari #41 3 years ago

    :p

    Great articles. Thanks EG.

    The only bummer is that I can't get my DC to look too great on my LCD TV - even with my spiffing VGA box.

  • Rangerwave #42 3 years ago

    Happy days. The funny thing is, I never actually owned one until 2006, but when it was launched I can remember my mum talking about it around Christmas 1999, but she didn't buy it

  • Ryze #43 3 years ago

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell

    EXACTLY. After being spammed with Chu Chu Rocket adverts trying to tell me that this was why I should spend £200 in the year 2000, I decided right then and there that I wasn't buying one.

    Sega had already ruined my confidence in them after the Mega CD, 32X & Saturn, and I wasn't being burned by their stupidity again.

    I wanted the Arcade games, with online play - plain and simple. Sega Rally 2 recieved awful reviews, and didn't support online. It continued from there. I wasn't impressed.

    Sega killed themselves.

  • Scimarad #44 3 years ago

    I would have KILLED for a proper Shining Force game on the DC!

  • bad09 #45 3 years ago

    Man I forgot SR2 cheers Ryze!

    Why did it get bad reviews? I thought it was bloody brilliant!

  • Ryze #46 3 years ago

    @GamesConnoisseur

    Gran Turismo 3
    Grand Theft Auto III
    Metal Gear Solid 2

    These games were the absolute nail in the coffin for the Dreamcast. GTAIII made me impulse buy a PS2 for £240 with games in 2001. Sega simply did not have the marketing message to come close to beating the impact of Sony and these titles. I don't even remember there being any ads AT ALL for GTA III.

    It sold itself.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 11:53

  • bad09 #47 3 years ago

    GTA3 and the following GTA games cemented Sony's success against everyone, until it was no longer exclusive oddly....

    Oh and Ryze, GT2 was PS1 ;)

  • Xerx3s #48 3 years ago

    "How is that important? It doesnt make the number of great games larger, doest it?"

    Because the DC didn't have a lack of games. The ps2 just had more because it had a longer lifespan. In fact, it was the ps2 that was seriously lacking a solid lineup of good games during that time.

    "Also, the random Sony-hate among EG commenters baffles me. You act like they killed your dog or sumthing."

    Errrr... righhhhht.

  • The-Bodybuilder #49 3 years ago

    @ Scimarad
    I'm not gonna deny that Sony's emotion engine didn't do lot of damage, because it did.....A LOT.
    But sega were the prime culprit. I still can't believe they let shenmue out without a single tv ad. Yet america had loads. And suprise suprise, it sold more in the US.

  • Ryze #50 3 years ago

    ^ sorted that before you replied, bad09.

  • The-Bodybuilder #51 3 years ago

    I remember quite a lot of GTA3 ads.

  • bad09 #52 3 years ago

    @ Ryze

    Oh, yeah

    / dials "Hello game police...yeah false alarm. Thanks bye"

  • dirk_aircool #53 3 years ago

    Loved it . Ferrarri F355 VGA box and steering wheel . and tony jawk and other great games . the memories of beieng able to read text before current gen HD consoles .

  • MikeD #54 3 years ago

    I'm trying to figure out in what way a nozzle shooting a constant stream of chocolate into my lap would be a good thing. Sounds like it would get messy.

  • bad09 #55 3 years ago

    F355 was ace on DC but I recently played the old F355 arcade machine with 3 screens, all kinds of lovely :)

  • BonzoBanana #56 3 years ago

    I'll admit I witnessed the dreamcast launch with apathy and disinterest. I thought it was a another doomed to failure sega console and thought best ignored. I remember watching a few instore game demos like the boxing game with the boxer with the big afro haircut and a skateboard type game. Both visually nice but not the genres that would suck me into buying a console. I was happy at the time with a n64 playing mario 64 and pilotwings 64 etc and thought no more of it. I also had a playstation too at the time.

    Time passed and with the dreamcast already in decline I bought one at near enough the time I bought a ps2 from the so called slammer half price ps2 deal. I couldn't believe it not only were dreamcast games more playable and more interesting but they blew the ps2 games away technically (remember this was early ps2 titles). The ps2 was cack central. Just to put the final nail in the coffin of the ps2 I got a AE100 projector and connected the dc via VGA and the ps2 via component. The difference was staggering the projector mapped 1:1 pixels on the dreamcast to give a truly amazing dc image on the wall. The weakness of the ps2 regarding aliasing and its low interpolated resolution looked truly awful. The dc took pride of place with my projector playing classics like shenmue over a whole wall, it was gaming greatness. The ps2 was demoted and connected to a 21" philips combi where its graphic problems were unnoticable mostly.

    I think the wisest decision sega made was giving the dc 8meg of video memory. The ps2 only has 4meg, the gc and wii only have 3meg and combined with the dc's clever tile based rendering gpu meant huge amount of textures were available on screen you could just about fully texture everything to make it look realistic. The ps2 could kick out a lot more polygons but had to repeat textures because it only had 4meg and no hardware texture compression. Also the ps2 only actually rendered at about 640x200 and interpolated to 640x400 which softened the image and created more aliasing. The dc rendered at 640x480 progressively no problem. Thats about 5x the resolution!!! I've yet to see a ps2 game even today that looks as good as shenmue or shenmue II. Even the games seemed to load faster yet I realise writing that, they shouldn't do as the dc has a 12xcdrom and the ps2 24x for cds but that was the reality for me. Admittedly the dc only has 26meg memory compared to about 36meg of the ps2 so that might help.


    In my living room today a dc is under the main tv permantly and my ps3 provides upscaled and improved ps2 visuals that still don't look as good as dc.

    The dc had a british designed gpu and even the hitachi risc chip is derived from the british arm risc processor I believe. It punched well above its weight and still provides visuals equal to the current generation wii. Totally awesome console that should never have failed. The ps2 went on to sell about 140 million plus providing huge profits to sony even to this day where the ps2 is the only truly profitable console in their range.

  • IneptPercy #57 3 years ago

    It amazing what the brand loyalty of the playstation did, as a few have said they remember many waiting for the PS2. It did seem Sony tried the same trick with the 360, as it is it didn't have as much of an affect, but dare I say the PS3 has sold more than it deserved as a games conole.

    My dreamcast still gets use, we really like Pen Pen on 4 players, other games I loved where head hunter and space channel 5, both of which got poor PS2 versions later on.

    Such a shame as it lead to the all out sony dominance we have now as both the gamecube and xbox where too late to the game.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #58 3 years ago

    Sony's spolier tactics were harmful to the gamer in the long run, still are to a point. We're just here to have fun with your toys, not to be bullshitted to.

    Nowadays its not uncommon for gamers to have 2, or even all 3 current gen consoles. There is no war to be won once they are all making a profit, the only battle is to win the hearts of the gamer, which Sega did.
    Forget the PS4, come back Sega, and claim the rewards you truly deserve. I reckon they would shift plenty of Dreamcast 2s out of respect, so long as they didn't include a scam like blu-ray.



  • pac666 #59 3 years ago

    Still fondly remembered (and booted! up depite ongoing battles with reset bug)

  • zedzee #60 3 years ago

    I recall "Shenmue" (or something like that) as being the best - or at least, most anticipated - game for the Dreamcast.

    But the real and only reason for the failure of the Dreamcast is because Sony's PS2 offered backwards compatibility. It meant that PS1 owners can simply continue buying games, knowing full well that when they were ready to upgrade to PS2, their back catalogue would move forward with them. And by then, hopefully, a few decent PS2 games would also be out. Perhaps I'm saying this with a little bit of hindsight, but it was enough to put me and my friends off buying the Dreamcast.

    There was also the 'brand loyalty' (I was guilty of that, too), the grown-up image of the PlayStation as well as the exclusives (WipeOut, MGS, GTA, GT, Tekken etc.) All meant that the exciting stuff was all happening on the PlayStation. In my opinion, these reasons were to a lesser degree but nevertheless, they also contributed.



    Edited by 2 at 02/02/09 @ 12:08

  • bad09 #61 3 years ago

    Makes me all misty eyed, must own one again!

  • N.A.T.O #62 3 years ago

    The general public killed the DC, fed on the hype that surrounded the PS2 before its launch. Does anyone remember that absurd story about the fear that the PS2 would be sold in Iraq because it was classified as a 'supercomputer'. It may have been used to launch missiles at the west. You got to hand it to Sony. Shit like that was lapped up by saps all over the world. I remember when I first played a PS2 around a mates house, it was crap compared to my white box of tricks.

    It seems however that Sonys crimes are coming home to roost this generation. Good riddance is what I say.

  • NotSoSlim #63 3 years ago

    Yea let have MS monopolise the games industry like the have the PC industry its just what us gamers need. Anyway DC was and still is a great machine.

    Capcom need to re-rlease Power Stone in HD lol

  • secombe #64 3 years ago

    I love my Dreamcast, the games were actual honest to goodness video games, and I miss that now. What I mean is, they were in the most part unashamedly great, short (but replayable) experiences, it is literally like having an arcade in your home.

    I own a Wii now because that (somewhat sporadically) offers the same kind of experiences, but in many ways gaming has become a little too in-depth and high-brow for my liking, which is one of the main reasons that my DC still gets an awful lot of use.

  • caligari #65 3 years ago

    @Pac666

    The reset bug takes about 5 minutes to fix. Google the problem - all you have to do is open the case and push back 'a couple of pins' (if I managed to do it then it MUST be easy).

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #66 3 years ago

    "Where are the console greats of old?"

    EDF! EDF! EDF!

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #67 3 years ago

    "gaming on the Dreamcast being all but lag-free, even with a fast-paced game like Quake III Arena. In fact, I'd say I experienced less problems with lag via the Dreamcast's humble modem than I have in this generation with a 10Mb broadband connection.

    The system did also have some great online games,"

    Not until it was already effectively dead and far too late, though. As far as I can recall offhand, there were NO games at the Euro launch with any significant online components, despite that being the focus of the advertising. It was months and months later that Chu Chu Rocket arrived, which might just have been an online killer app if it had been in the box at launch.

    I never managed any successful online play at all with my DC, but if you did the absence of lag might have been due to there only being six people on the servers...

  • bdc #68 3 years ago

    Long live the Dreamcast!

  • secombe #69 3 years ago

    I agree with a couple of points that have been made about this being far from a "forensic" retrospective. There doesn't appear to have been any actual journalism done here, as with the recent second-hand game article and how that is impacting on the industry. In many ways, any of us could have written this. A bit of research, interviews etc wouldn't go amiss.

  • kobashi #70 3 years ago

    PSO and NFL 2K1/2K2 servers were always packed with people playing!!

    How Sega actually managed to get them games running as smooth as they did on dial up I will never know. I remember telling people in America I was in the UK when playing NFL 2K1/2K2 online and they would be shocked on how we got a game running online.

  • bad09 #71 3 years ago

    I've been checking out DC's on eBay, roll on payday \o/

  • Xerx3s #72 3 years ago

    "I would like to point that, at the time, Sony showcased pre-rendered CG of their upcoming games and everyone bought into it. Why the same didn't happen with the PS3 games not so long ago is beyond me. Yeah, they tried to pull the same fancy stunt."

    It did work. Just not good enough to land sony position 1 on the market. When you go into a shop and hear people say that the ps3 is at least 10 times more powerful than anything else but that they just need to unlock that power...

  • Xerx3s #73 3 years ago

    You can get a good DC off the net for as little as 30 to 50 euro. The games can be obtained in other ways.

  • odin1899 #74 3 years ago

    Good thing Sega at least continues to release quality software like Sonic Unleashed.

  • login_name #75 3 years ago

    EDF! EDF! EDF!

    Funnily enough, one of my favourite games on the 360. Had so much fun playing this in 2 player. I just wish it had online co-op.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 14:51

  • chris_ace #76 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • AgentCool #77 3 years ago

    The Dreamcast was and is a fantastic console, easily one of the greatest ever made. It was amazing how much I got the piss taken out of me for buying one over the PS2 but I don't regret it for a second. Even today, over ten years after its Japanese release, the Dreamcast can compete graphically with the Wii. Of course, it's gameplay that's the most important thing and, in my opinion, the Dreamcast produced more true classics in three years than the PS2 has to date.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 15:06

  • scartbat #78 3 years ago

    The dreamcast rocked.... I miss it :(
    Wish sega would bring out a console to beat up the ps3 !!!!

  • GreyBeard #79 3 years ago

    I quite liked the DC, but I can't help feeling that there's a few points being glossed over. Like...

    The controller wasn't comfortable at all for long-term play. I vividly remember my hands hurting like hell after a prolonged session thanks to its rock-hard plastic, and funky shape.
    The VMU was a bad joke, how long did a set of batteries last? Also, add on a rumble-pack and the DC controller+vmu+RP was stupidly clunky and heavy.

    Bear in mind I actually LIKED the original giant bear-claw Xbox controller, so its not like I've got small dainty hands :D

    The real problem to my mind was that Sega were simply ahead of their time. The idea of online-console gaming just didn't take off until after the DC's demise. How many people bought a PS2 network-adapter in Europe for example? Not many, and that's over a much longer period of time than the Dreamcast was alive. You can see the legacy of this in the state of PSN nowadays.

    On the subject of Sony, for me the main reason they trounced the DC was that they far more momentum at launch than Sega did. Most of Sega's top titles were Arcade games, and coin-ops had been on a steady decline for years. With the PS1 Sony had created/stolen a ton of big-name franchises that were associated primarily with the Playstation brand. And that's going from Final Fantasy to Spyro and Crash Bandicoot.

    Adding to Sega's pain was the fact that apparently no matter how good their new IP's were, they sold terribly in every territory. They didn't grab the imagination of the masses: You just can't blame the failure of titles like JSR on anything other than indifference on the part of the public. You have to bear in mind that virtually none of the new titles that Sega pumped out at that time were ever successfully re-released on another platform. Its all very well pointing out Rez and Chu-Chu Rocket are still going on Live these days, but considering that type of product (cost/distribution-wise) didn't exist before the 360 arrived its not much of a legacy.

    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 15:47

  • Eurytus #80 3 years ago

    "On the subject of Sony, for me the main reason they trounced the DC was that they far more momentum at launch than Sega did. Most of Sega's top titles were Arcade games, and coin-ops had been on a steady decline for years. With the PS1 Sony had created/stolen a ton of big-name franchises that were associated primarily with the Playstation brand. And that's going from Final Fantasy to Spyro and Crash Bandicoot. "

    Actually the games at the PS2's launch and for some time thereafter were pretty dire.

    Armored Core 2 (Agetec, Action)
    DOA2: Hardcore (Tecmo, Fighting)
    Dynasty Warriors 2 (Koei, Action)
    ESPN International Track and Field (Konami, Sports)
    ESPN X-Games Snowboarding (Konami, Sports)
    Eternal Ring (Agetec, RPG)
    Evergrace (Agetec, RPG)
    FantaVision (SCEI, Puzzle)
    Gun Griffon Blaze (Working Designs, Action)
    Kessen (EA, Adventure)
    Madden NFL 2001 (EA, Sports)
    Midnight Club (Rockstar, Racing)
    Moto GP (Namco, Racing)
    NHL 2001 (EA, Sports)
    Orphen (Activision, RPG)
    Q-Ball Billiards Master (Take-Two Interactive, Simulation)
    Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2 (Midway, Sports)
    Ridge Racer V (Namco, Racing)
    Silent Scope (Konami, Shooter)
    Smuggler's Run (Rockstar, Racing-Adventure)
    SSX (EA, Sports)
    Street Fighter EX3 (Capcom, Fighting)
    Summoner (THQ, RPG)
    Swing Away (Paradise Golf in Japan) (EA, Sports)
    Tekken Tag Tournament (Namco, fighting)
    TimeSplitters (Eidos, First-Person Shooter)
    Unreal Tournament (Infogrames, First-Person Shooter)
    Wild Wild Racing (Interplay, Racing)
    X-Squad (EA, Action)

  • barnard666 #81 3 years ago

    so I maybe I am the only person who actually has a softer spot for the saturn than the dreamcast - yes it really is my all time favorite console - it brought me back to gaming after a hiatus, and now gaming is my number 1 pass time and my profession. GO VIDEOGAMES - GO SAAAATTTTTTURRRRRRRN!

  • The-Bodybuilder #82 3 years ago

    >"Why the same didn't happen with the PS3 games not so long ago is beyond me."

    It did happen, especially on EG, remember? Even after the past, the media still fell for it.
    The real reason why the ps3 didn't steamroll over the 360 is for one thing and one thing only......price.

  • mikeck #83 3 years ago

    "Sony should be ashamed abbout what they did to it but Sega should still be proud of what they created."

    I find comments like this funny, I mean why should one company be ashamed about outselling a rival? Does that mean Nintendo should be ashamed because they unexpectedly wiped the floor with Sony and Microsoft this gen (I know this gen is far from over, but Ninty have a hefty lead on sales)? I can understand if a company 'won' by nefarious dealings/actions, but this is not the case.

    The Dreamcast was a cool console, but I find it hard to believe that Sony should apologise for their success with the PS2.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 16:51

  • QCF+HP #84 3 years ago

    i still love my dreamcast, my absolutely favourite console. it stands right next to my Ps3.
    shenmue was just overwhelming. im still waiting for the 3rd part and i will never give up the hope! ill just wait.
    that was just a sweet time...i plaed the best games ever when i owned this babe (and i still play them)

    Ecco The Dolphin (still not through but i wanna solve it on my own...)
    Shenmue I & II (i have nothing to say about that...best story-game ever played)
    Marvel Vs Capcom 2
    Street Fighter 3 third strike
    Capcom Vs Snk
    Jet Set Radio
    Skies Of Arcadia
    Sonic Adventure
    RE: code veronica
    Under Defeat
    Chu Chu Rocket (love the design)
    Power Stone ( first one is defenately better than the second part)

    i will always have a dreamcast.

  • rascoj64 #85 3 years ago

    Oh! Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Soul Caliber, Crazy Taxi great great games! I loved my Dreamcast! :) Agree some of the games look great even now! Wish the would do the final installment of Shenmue.

  • GreyBeard #86 3 years ago

    @Eurytus

    At launch, you're right. But a lot of people were waiting for the next GT, MGS, FF, RR, Tekken, Ace Combat, Tomb Raider, etc. etc. Franchises that are still going today.

    I really think people are underestimating the immense impact the original Playstation had, it was one hell of a platform on top of which to build future success. Also, although I don't want to dismiss the Saturn out of hand because (again) I had good times with the machine, but the fact is that it wasn't just beaten by the PS1 it was a distant third behind both Sony and Nintendo.

    I find it a bit odd that these days its seems like everyone blames Sony for Sega's demise, when historically Nintendo had been their primary competition. They dug themselves in a pit at the end of the Megadrive/Genesis era with the failure of the ridiculous add-ons, and the Nomad, trying to compete with them. By the time of the DC's launch they were wobbling badly on the ropes, Sony didn't really have to try and finish them off as the damage was already done.

  • Lawlost #87 3 years ago

    I still like to think that Sega will surprise us all and bring out a new console, that kicks both Sony and MS into touch.

  • Calgon #88 3 years ago

    Gamers are better informed these days, they did try it but there were plenty of people calling them out on it this time around and we had embaressed retractions and excuses of "target renders" but most knew they were just using the same old Sony tactics.(yeah some idiots are still defending them for it, "they were telling the truth about KZ2 and how awesome the PS3/Cell is" but there were idiots defending their hype last gen too against GC and Xbox)

    I remember EG falling for it all and later saying it was MS who got it wrong by being too honest in their E3 showing, by showing titles how they really looked at that time and explaining they will be more polished come launch... which I totally disagree with EG on. I think on reflection it makes MS look deservedly more honest among the hardcore(so some will give them Kudos for that, naturally the casuals probably havent heard of E3 but that sort of information trickles down to the casuals/mainstream eventually) and perhaps Sony will learn from it in future as MS will learn how to make damn sure their hardware is reliable enough from the get go in future.

    Oh and yeah Id like to see Sega back behind hardware in one way or another, either with their own or in partnership with MS(they could just handle Japan for them, maybe then they will buy the damn thing with SEGAs name on it) or Ninty(but they dont look like they need any help other than to count and store their boatloads of cash).
    Edited by 8 at 01/02/09 @ 17:48

  • MyPointIs #89 3 years ago

    I think these few articles just caused all Dreamcast-related eBay prices to go up by 50%

  • GreyBeard #90 3 years ago

    Next time if Microsoft are smart they'll allow third-parties to make compatible hardware in addition to building it themselves.

    The key component of their strategy is Live, and its software and services. That's what keeps people coming back in spite of the shortcomings of the hardware. I believe if at the height of the RROD fiasco, people would have been able to buy, say a Dell or Toshiba, or hell a Sega branded clone that costs a little more but offers better build-quality for a small price-premium they'd be where Nintendo is now.

  • Lawlost #91 3 years ago

    True words there from Galgon. I think one of the issues was that Sony was exagerating the PS3's capabilities even to their own staff. I work in TV and a chap from Sony came and demonstrated Sony's new Blu Ray. It looked great and I was chatting to him afterwards he said that the PS3 was going to be even more impressive than the Blu Ray. He said he had seen some footage of what it was capable of, talking about life like facial features and having the ability to have your own face on characters in the game. None of this transpired and I think that everyone will be very sceptical of any claims Sony makes next time round. Having said that we're all going to be a little worried about MS hardware, which may not transpire until months after owning the machine. Will gamers wait to see the real capabiliy of the PS4 and skip the MS720 overhardware concerns? Here's hoping Sega bring out a new killer console.

  • onyxbox #92 3 years ago

    PS2 was a better machine. DC had a head start in the market and because the graphics could hold up to early PS2 games I think people thought the DC was very capable.

    2 years or so on, when developers figured the PS2 out and started making use of the next gen (DVD) disk format, the PS2 just pulled ahead and at the same time the price kept falling. GT3 and MGS2 looked better than anything on the market at the time.

    DC's online was ahead of it's time... but let's face it (it didn't work) and even today I'd argue that mass market don't care about online.


  • Widge #93 3 years ago

    I bought a dreamcast to check out some of the classics. Once I realised Shenmue and Panzer Dragoon were on the Xbox I sold it and got that instead.

    The Dreamcast was not better than the PS2. At best it was a valiant little machine with some great games but it was outclassed by the PS2. Regardless of it not living up to Emotion Engine promises.

  • The-Bodybuilder #94 3 years ago

    I would say Headhunter and DEFINATELY SHENMUE could stand up to MGS2.

    But for those who want a new sega console? Forget it. The sega of today is not the same anymore, and it hasn't been since sammy took them over. The teams list their identity and got re-absorbed by sega, they disbanded the teams, stiffled creativity, took less risks, hid yu suzuki in a dungeon, and aren't the same sega as before.

    Heck, they hardly make AAA titles these days.

  • Calgon #95 3 years ago

    I say its ignorrant to compare 2 years of Dreamcast to 8 years of PS2(lets face it the best PS2 stuff came long after its domanance over even the GC and Xbox was settled).

    Id imagine(infact I'm pretty darn sure of it) 8 years of Dreamcast releases at the rate they were churning the good games out and improving would make some the the talk about the PS2's library being anywhere near as good as NES was, compared to the competition at the time look very stupid indeed(wasnt even nearly like that).
    Edited by 4 at 01/02/09 @ 18:44

  • secombe #96 3 years ago

    I say its ignorrant to compare 2 years of dreamcast of 8 years of PS2

    Absolutely, I don't think any console can claim so many genuinely brilliant games in such a short space of time, especially starting from the launch period. Had the DC had 6, 7 or 8 years who knows what could have happened. I bought all my DC games during the actual time they were released (i.e. haven't collected lots after) and it really was an absolute golden age of gaming for me, hit after hit after hit.

  • Zaltan #97 3 years ago

    I loved my Dreamcast... But PS2 was better!

  • N.A.T.O #98 3 years ago

    Widge

    The PS2 had no class, it was the lowest common denominator in the video game world. If the PS2 was LIDL, the Dreamcast was Waitrose ;-)

  • gelf #99 3 years ago

    To whoever mentioned the Saturn, your not the only one. I love my Dreamcast but overall I preferred the Saturn as it coincided with a golden selection of Sega coin-ops like VF2, Sega Rally etc. Plus it had the likes of the Panzer Dragoon series and the best versions of all those Capcom fighters.

  • Calgon #100 3 years ago

    I think there were alot of things going against SEGA at that time here is the order Id place the most affecting factors in though:

    * Sony hype(worked a treat for them, alot of gamers bought every last soundbite and the mags repeated it for those who missed any of them) and Sony loyalty coupled with the Backwards Compatibility... all of this made for a deadly blow to SEGA and a mass resistance of the DC even though they could see the DC was good, they held out in alot of cases in the hopes that PS2 really would do their laundry.

    * DVD, its true it was a really huge factor for the new gamers Sony attracted(these werent even considered by SEGA I dont think, expanding the market wasnt the plan they just wanted success in the current market again) one of the first things I remember about the PS2 was watching a DVD on it at a friends house.

    *Bad marketing decisions, but this was probably mostly Europe that was affected by that, apparently Japan and America did quite well on the advertising.

    *Lack of EA support not so much in Europe but the US is the biggest market out there so it was pretty darn important.

    *"Dreamcast is already dead" talk long before it was certain, this is FUD and it works well... I do wonder if Sony pays for people to generate this kind of thing for their competitors sometimes(could just be how gamers are really but it wouldnt suprise me). Remember the "Xbox will scratch all your Disks" talk around the Xbox launch too? The RROD will be heavily relied upon by MS haters for years to come even in this time of reliable Jasper 360s. It also amuses me how people like Les sulk about the repair bill write off because they can no longer use it to pretend 360 isnt steadily making its own profit(which it is) and also spin it into a tale of doom for the Xbox devision(suprised to see Rob hint about it too in his article)... it's the main reason these people/gamers take such a keen(understatement) interest in sales looking for anything bad they can spin in the good and vice versa for the competition(Hype, FUD all seem like desperate moves that I could gladly do without in gaming, yet they have proven to be effective).

    Edited by 4 at 01/02/09 @ 19:31

  • grandmaster Verified Director, Digital Foundry #101 3 years ago

    All of us who had to deal with Sega Europe at the time knew the machine was doomed. Not because of the games - the launch line-up was brilliant - but because the marketeers were trying to one-up Sony in terms of 'mainstream' PR and rapidly disappeared into their collective rear-ends.

    Not only that, but there was a genuine, conscious decision at Sega Europe to turn its back on its heritage, particularly its Japanese output. Anything that could be linked back to the Saturn days - anything - was seen as an embarrassment. This did lead to some great second party development, but they simply didn't know what to do with the majority of the Japanese stuff they had to deal with.

    The fact that the ads had no game footage or screenshots spoke volumes. The machine's key advantage at launch was that the games looked so much better than the PS1's... but you'd never have been able to tell from the marketing.

    Sad, sad days - so much optimism after the Japanese launch and the early reveals of stuff like MSR - but the bottom line is that it wasn't Sony that killed the Dreamcast, it was Sega trying to copy them.

  • Scimarad #102 3 years ago

    @N.A.T.O.

    Yes it was (is) actualy popular, if that was what you were trying to say:-(

  • GreyBeard #103 3 years ago

    The PS2 was and is a great console, one of the best of all time.

    I know its terribly fashionable to beat up on Sony right now, but history I think will judge them very kindly. They did a huge amount to break gaming out of its bedroom/geek-pit ghetto and provided a fertile ground for an enormous number of classic gaming franchises and genres to grow from.

  • DAN.E.B #104 3 years ago

    i loved the dreamcast! it did more in two years than the ps2 did in four!
    such a shame brand loyalty is such a factor in the games market.

  • Sunyavadin #105 3 years ago

    I still play on both my Dreamcasts. I always laughed at how poor my friends' PS2 games looked and played by comparison.

  • secombe #106 3 years ago

    I know its terribly fashionable to beat up on Sony right now, but history I think will judge them very kindly. They did a huge amount to break gaming out of its bedroom/geek-pit ghetto

    Couldn't much the same be said of the Wii now? It's massively derided here on EG, yet has found a massive audience and potentially will open gaming up to even more people than the PS2 did.

  • kaya08 #107 3 years ago

    I actually preferred the saturn too. Same great line-up of shmups (Radiant Silvergun) and Capcom's golden years in 2d fighters imo (marvel super heroes). Then they had the ridiculously brilliant Nights, panzer dragoon series, Shining Force 3, Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop, Sega Rally. So so good.
    Dreamcast was great too
    I miss sega. The PS2 only started to catch up to the DC with ICO and God of War etc. being released if you ask me.

  • GreyBeard #108 3 years ago

    @Secombe

    Absolutely true. And its a development that should be welcomed.

    Its easy I think to judge the Wii as something completely different to what Sony and MS are offering, in that their primary audience is people who generally aren't videogame afficionados, but realistically its still a games console and if people like what they see, they may feel inclined to look into what else the market offers.

    Which is great, I think.

  • EmiliasHorse #109 3 years ago

    The DC is sadly missed but during it's short life it delivered more moments of greatness than any other console in a similar time frame.

  • moggsy #110 3 years ago

    Rev. Stuart Campbell (comment on first page) is spot on. It was Sega's marketing which killed the Dreamcast. Shame.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #111 3 years ago

    Sony had a HUGE impact on Dreamcast, nearly every gamer I knew was waiting. "You should get a dreamcast it's f**king wicked!" I'd say only to hear the reply "nah, I'm waiting for PS2 that's gonna be much better".

    I absolutely agree with Bad09 here. Some of you can ignore this fact if you like, but many of us saw this first hand with almost every single interested party. Almost every person I spoke to was waiting for the PS2 for either the DVD, because the PS2 will be much more powerful or because there was no Fifa. I had non-gamers coming up to me and telling me that The Sun has said it will have gigaflops of bandwidth or some such bollocks.

    Most (not all) of the people who say it was Sega themselves are either the very Sony loyalists that caused the problem or never owned a DC and thus didn't hear the comments that Bad09, myself and others heard when showcasing the DC.

    EA definitely also had an impact in Europe too. I've got mates that aren't really into general gaming but do like a game of fifa or pes. They waited for a PS2 too.

    Finally the 32x and MegaCD had fuck all to do with it. You can't say that it only sold 250k and then suggest that it pissed people off so they didn't by a DC. Most of the people gaming by the time the DC came out didn't even know what a 32X was let alone make it affect their buying decision!

    So yeah, I do think the DC was probably, per year, the best console ever....and I'll always resent Sony (even though I own Playstations) for bullshitting the way they did and playing the largest part in killing off a gaming stalwart.

    They tried it again this time but... some of us saw through it and MS are a darn sight richer than Sega. Some fucking idiots still fell for it - every one of the people that spent over £600 on the bundle only PS3 launch at play.com etc. ;)




    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 21:02

  • Collymilad #112 3 years ago

    "y'up it is true sony did pretty much kill sega off.

    but i always felt the 360 is the re-incarnation of the dreamcast,
    back from the grave to kick sonys ass

    - vey similar colour console boxes.
    - very very similar colour schemes on the control pads.
    - the same man Peter Moore behind both projets"

    I always felt that too, mainly because SEGA seemed to cozy up to MS a bit for a while after they went software only.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 20:59

  • N.A.T.O #113 3 years ago

    Collymilad

    Unfortunately I don't agree that the 360 is the natural successor to the DC (for what it's worth).

    If the DC was stacked full of derivative first and third person shooters then i'd agree with you. Don't get me wrong, the 360 is a great machine with cool features (XBLA etc), it's just too much like a PC though.

    The DC was home to Videogames not wannabe PC games (except Quake 3,UT, oh and Soldier of Fortune).

    Videogames in this generation can only mean the Wii. No joke.

    (Quickly dons flame suit)

  • polar #114 3 years ago

    Great article!

  • Incarta #115 3 years ago

    Thanks for the Dreamcast love EG. A fine console indeed.

    And you're right; Sega killed it with their crazy antics in the latter half of the 90s.
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 21:35

  • dudefella #116 3 years ago

    Ironically, SEGA kind of killed themselves. Sad, but true. I still have my Dreamcast and a box full of awesome games though. Jet Set Radio, Shenmue 1 and 2, Sonic Adventure 2, Marvel vs Capcom, Code Veronica, Rayman 2... bliss.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #117 3 years ago

    "GT3 and MGS2 looked better than anything on the market at the time."

    Shenmue was and is aesthetically the best game of its generation by a mile. Nothing on PS2 or GC comes remotely close to it, certainly not MGS2. There's just no grain of truth in the claim that the PS2 was technically better than the DC.

  • GreyBeard #118 3 years ago

    @SpaceMidget75

    So, hang on a second. How can being loyal to something be a "problem" ? If Sega's marketing department weren't able to present a strong enough case to sway people its their fault surely?

    The historical fact of the matter is that Sega were extremely cash-strapped by the time of the DC's launch as a result of a series of failed hardware launches going back all the way to the end of the Megadrive/Genesis era. This is not debatable.

    Everybody knew at the time that the DC was Sega's last attempt at cracking the hardware market, and very few expected them to succeed based on their track record at that point.

    This lack of confidence extended to a lot of third-party publishers, particularly EA. Again, in the previous generation it wasn't just Sony eating Sega's lunch. The N64 wasn't a PS1 troubling success, but it sold solidly (~33m lifetime) and thanks to Nintendo's first and second party hits was the critical darling of its time.

    Worse for Sega was that its mainstay, its arcade games, were fading out of sight and its chief competitors (Namco, Konami, etc) had aligned themselves strongly with Sony over the last generation. It was only Capcom who showed any faith in them by bringing across Res Evil, although they traded that off with Sony by giving them the DMC and Onimusha franchises to soften the blow.

    Sega were out on a limb with few friends to watch their back. I remember at the time wondering if MS were going to step in, having tentatively aligned themselves with Sega by supplying them the Win CE OS/Toolkit. But no. When the crunch came MS turned their backs and started their own venture instead.

    Most of all though, Sega chronically misjudged the software market at that time. Not a single enduring franchise was created during the Dreamcasts short life. Good as a lot of titles were, they were either too niche or badly marketed to make much of an impact. Shenmue being a classic example of Sega spending a metric fuckton of money and resources on a game that had minimal mainstream appeal.

    The nub of the problem I think was that a lot of Sega's best titles were very closely affiliated with the arcade experience, and that was way out of fashion at the time. I suppose if you consider the Playstation as the home console that killed the arcades once and for all, then you have grounds for blaming Sony for Sega's demise. But that still leaves Sega's execs as being the major culprits in that they had failed to disassociate themselves from their past (and fading) glories.

  • dryden555 #119 3 years ago

    For those of us who were around at the time, this article sounds like it tells barely half the story. Piracy was a big deal that left SEGA helpless to do anything about it. And many of the games for the DC were terrible "filler" titles. Gamers quite rightly looked to the PS2 for more varied titles to play.

  • Scimarad #120 3 years ago

    "i loved the dreamcast! it did more in two years than the ps2 did in four!"

    Bollocks! Like what?

  • itsfuzzy #121 3 years ago

    I bought a Panasonic 3DO and never had the money to get a DreamCast. I wish i did. Man i love all the old machines.
    Wonder if they will ever re make Jet Force Gemini for the N64

  • bad09 #122 3 years ago

    \o/

    £30 has got me a DC, pad, LE green VMU, VF3tb, SR2, F355, Daytona 2001 and a steering wheel, just 3-4 days to wait!

    Thanks EG, when I woke this morning I didn't think I'd be buying a console - Bastards!!

    Shenmue I'm coming home!

  • Widge #123 3 years ago

    ALL the stuff I put on a Dreamcast looked decided a grade below what I'd been playing on the PS2. I was seriously expecting some wonderbox and was really chuffed when I got my hands on one, only to really feel a bit disappointed by it all.

  • IneptPercy #124 3 years ago

    In comparing power of consoles, someone please tell how long it took to get a PS2 fighter which was as stunning as soul calibre? did it ever happen?

    I think it was shemue which sunk the DC, they put everything into it and it didn't sell like it needed.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #125 3 years ago

    Looks like the faithful have finally turned up.

    and @Greybeard, there's too many things I don't agree with in your post for me to be bothered to reply to each one.

    Simple fact is...
    ...no one I knew bought a DC because it didn't have a DVD player, didn't have Fifa or they thought the PS2 was gonna produce that FF8 ballroom scene in real-time.

    No amount of marketing can fix that.

    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 22:25

  • darrenb #126 3 years ago

    I dont think anyone can really say that piracy had a hand in killing the Dreamcast. If that was the case the original Playstation would have been dead in the water as that was probably the first console to bring piracy to the mass market.

    There was a massive group of people that only bought a PS1 because it could be chipped and copied games were very easy to aquire. I am sure most PS1's bought from mail order distributers such as Skill and the like were pre-chipped versions.

    At the end of the day the Dreamcast wasn't cool enough for the mass market because it didnt have a Sony logo in the corner.. Sega knew this would be a problem, why do you think the machine was white and didnt even have a promenant Sega logo to be seen..
    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 22:37

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #127 3 years ago

    I agree darrenb.

    The piracy argument is a hypocritical as the 32x argument. You still need to buy the console to play your pirates on. The DC was selling less once it had been hacked!

  • bad09 #128 3 years ago

    Piracy never really hurts the hardware but devs may decide to chuck the software in if it gets too much (like psp). DC fell so quickly and easily (like PSP again oddly) I'm sure it was a contributing factor to it's eventual downfall.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #129 3 years ago

    We'll I might be hazy on the subject but I'm sure it wasn't widespread hacked until about a year after the UK launch. By that time it wasn't selling well anyway so it was only existing users in its last year that took advantage.

  • bad09 #130 3 years ago

    Your're right it was a little while before it really took hold but I seem to remember the few people I did know who got one did so because of "cheap" games so sales of software must have taken a dive even before hardware started stalling.

  • The-Bodybuilder #131 3 years ago

    >"Shenmue being a classic example of Sega spending a metric fuckton of money and resources on a game that had minimal mainstream appeal."

    Shenmue sold over some 1.5mil, even with the crappy marketing and small demographic (being exclusive to the DC).

  • GreyBeard #132 3 years ago

    @Spacemidget

    You might not like what I have to say, but what I've written is the truth. Honestly, look into it.

    I can't believe you're being so adamant about disregarding what I wrote on the basis of anecdotal evidence of what your friends and acquaintances said at the time. Sega is/was a multinational business, the failure of a single product (the DC in this case) should not be enough to topple such an organization unless there were other, more deeply-seated issues affecting them!

    You cannot disregard the state of the business leading up to the time of a launch as it affects every aspect from manufacturing run-size, marketing, strategic alliances etc. Its just common sense that all these factors come into play!

    I'm at a loss to tell the truth why you're being so defensive about the subject. Nothing I've written isn't directly verifiable by searching around on the internet. Does holding a grudge against Sony mean that much to you that you have to blot out all the other significant reasons for Sega's collapse?

    If so, fine. I really don't mind. But please, show me some courtesy, and don't just tell me I'm wrong without first bothering to justify why you think that's the case.

    PS. On the subject of hacks, there were several. The first one was the hot-swap method done by disconnecting the lid-sensor which was known within weeks of launch, later on the discovery of the flaw processing CD+G discs was known and exploited to allow direct booting of backups.

    @The bodybuilder

    afaik the only solid figure for Shenmue was the 470k in the US as tracked by NPD. It did worse in Japan and Europe but is generally regarded to have sold more than a million. A million five seems a touch high to me. Regardless it lost Sega a lot of money.


    Edited by 1 at 01/02/09 @ 23:48

  • Xerx3s #133 3 years ago

    GreyBeard: Rubbish. Your point only applies to companies that have their income equally spread out over a series of products. For sega the biggest chunk went into consoles. If that one product would fail, there is always a big chance that the company will go titsup. The percentage of companies that have the luxury of a spread out income is tiny. Most will have to do with one main product.

  • bad09 #134 3 years ago

    Oh god the SDF are in now.

    Ah well, it's snowing and I'm a DC owner again, SDF can't bring me down today.

  • khaine27 #135 3 years ago

    i loved my dc until it died last year and playing pso was my first online experience, continued with ep 2 on the GC. imo, i agree that the dc suffered from bad publicity from the saturn era (which i bought as well) and the decision by most people to wait and see what the ps2 would do when it came out.

  • TONYgr #136 3 years ago

    one game that it was epic!!! ECCO THE DOLPHIN!!!!

  • GreyBeard #137 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    The Mega-Cd failed... The 32X failed...The Multi-mega failed... The Nomad failed...The Saturn failed...

    Guess what happened next?

    Lets not forget the abortive merger with Bandai in 1997, or the consecutive years of financial losses culminating in the boardroom reshuffle in May 2000.

    Things were rough for a long, long time. Do some research if you doubt me.

    And as for consoles being Sega's only business venture, how about their arcade division which exists to this day.

  • NegativeZero #138 3 years ago

    For reasons that may never be fully understood, the Japanese shoot-'em-up fraternity decided that the Dreamcast was the place to be

    That reason was probably that the most advanced and accessible arcade board for a long time was the NAOMI, Which is Dreamcast hardware, meaning that porting to and from Dreamcast for a home release was almost trivial.



    Sega killed the Dreamcast with poor management and even poorer marketing. A lot of people complain that it was too easy to pirate games for the system. I have to admit that I pirated several games myself, but that was because actually finding legitimate copies of anything aside from crap like Blue Stinger was next to impossible in Australia. I had to seriously go out of my way to find Shenmue and Sonic Adventure II, and finding one of the reputedly about 100 copies of Grandia II released in the country was an epic undertaking. The Dreamcast was terribly badly marketed and poorly managed. Sony's not to blame - Sony didn't really have to do anything except mention that they had a new console, and then sit back and watch Sega fall on their sword.

  • Scimarad #139 3 years ago

    "Oh god the SDF are in now."

    Sega Defense Force?

  • Amoebalove #140 3 years ago

    'The DC was shit. Hence, the reason it bombed.'


    Comments like this depress me! Although it goes some way to explain why this tool seems to hate the 360 so much.

  • The-Bodybuilder #141 3 years ago

    Are people like Zero_cool so dumb to the point they would compare DC games with ps2 games that came some2-3years after the DC died?

  • Redeye #142 3 years ago

    Ah, DC, how I miss your online tomfoolery...Q3A, Daytona, Worms World Party and so many more...not to mention Crazy Taxi and F355, which redefined 'arcade-perfect conversions'...so many excellent titles, I would have (at the time) happily sold internal organs to own them all. :D

    And rather than point the finger at one particular suspect, they are in fact ALL guilty of causing the DC's demise. SEGA's attitudes towards hardware in the 90s did them no favours, EA's subsequent refusal to develop and publish knocked the props out from under the machine, and Sony's PR was essentially the last nail in the coffin.

    Add to that the bizarre blowing of the European marketing budget on sponsoring Arsenal and a couple of other European sides - a deal that even ended up extending past the end of the console's actual lifespan - and Sony reps actively discouraging retaillers from pushing DC stuff as 'it might affect their future relationships with Sony'*, and the end result was in no doubt whatsoever.

    *I was in a branch of EB (remember them?) when a Sony rep actually uttered those words to the manager within earshot of about a dozen customers...couldn't believe what I was hearing...

  • FooAtari #143 3 years ago

    could it have done gran turismo or god of war?

    Yes.

  • FooAtari #144 3 years ago

    TheBodybuilder-
    Are people like Zero_cool so dumb to the point they would compare DC games with ps2 games that came some2-3years after the DC died?

    +1 You cannot compare games released AFTER the DC died. Did games launched 3-5 years into the PS2's life compare graphically with games released in the first 1 - 2 years? They looked quite a bit better, as with every console. Who knows what the DC could have done had developers had more time to work with it. We would have certaintly seen better looking games. Games like Soul Caliber showed what it was capable of.

  • lambtron #145 3 years ago

    "could it have done gran turismo or god of war?

    Yes."

    Considering that Soul Calibur and MSR looked lightyears ahead of anything on the PS2 at the time they came out (and the fact that devs would only get better at exploiting the hardware as time went on) yes.

    The DC was an awesome bit of kit. I vastly preferred it to the PS2 and still do. But, hey the PS2 could play DVDs!

  • Quint2020 #146 3 years ago

    The Dreamcast is the best console I've ever owned, an incredible line up of games, up yours Sony!

  • Toothball #147 3 years ago

    The Dreamcast changed my life. Before it I was a Nintendo fanboy, but I came to experience the Dreamcast after receiving one as a present. Really opened me up to all sorts of games I didn't know I liked. I used to hate RPGs, but after firing up a demo of Skies of Arcadia one bored afternoon they now form a substantial part of my collection. Every time I see a Dreamcast in Cash Converter or somewhere like that I want to rescue it and give it a good home.

  • Rash' #148 3 years ago

    I calling the PS2 technologically inferior to the Dreamcast is a bit of a stretch EG. DC's polygon count was pretty low and as the generation developed the importance of particle effects couldn't be underestimated. It's debatable whether DC could have managed Sega's own Outrun in the 60fps refresh rate that the PS2 and Xbox did. People really have to let that technologically inferior rubbish go. I love the DC and have a comprehensive collection for it, but when DMC came out with the shadow beast boss in the court yard there was no doubt in my mind PS2 could muster more technically than DC.

  • septimus #149 3 years ago

    Article made me jump on ebay. Just picked up a pristine boxed DC for £30 w/ keyboard etc.

  • LittleVoice #150 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 18:03:32 01-02-2012

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #151 3 years ago

    @Greybeard, the reason I chose not to reply is because most of your comments were to do with Sega's financial struggles which I don't think are relevant.

    If the Dreamcast had been a success Sega wouldn't have dropped it after two years, irrespective of there financial status at launch.

    Conversely if Sega had plenty of Money it wouldn't have changed things. People were still waiting for the PS2 for the reasons we've mentioned earlier. My anecdotal evidence is something that I stick to very much, because I witnessed it first hand from lots of people and the reasons were always the same.

    Are you telling me that amongst your circle of friends/colleagues/family that liked gaming (but aren't enthusiasts like you and I) that they would say to you they wouldn't buy a DC because "Sega are suffering financial difficulties" or "Oooh I don't like them, they released that 32x which was shit"? Come on now. No.

    Time and time again it was:

    "I want a DVD player"*
    "I'm waiting for the PS2, it's a supercomputer."*
    "Does it have Fifa?"

    Much the same as when Wii owners ignore the fact that lots of old codgers and wives that bought them don't play them anymore. I hear that almost daily, yet I MUST ignore it as it's anecdotal and too small a sample. :rollseyes:


    * Funny, but I heard similar things more recently too. ;)
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 10:19

  • slivir #152 3 years ago

    R.I.P. Dreamcast.

    To tell you the truth though, I miss the Saturn a whole lot more.

  • AbyssUK #153 3 years ago

    Article is wrong the Dreamcast isn't dead. IT CAN NEVER DIE!

  • GreyBeard #154 3 years ago

    @SpaceMidget75

    My impression of that time was that the DC was streets ahead of the competition, but nobody knew it. I always felt that Sega's marketing (or lack of it) really failed to get the message out there and as a result it never got the attention it should.

    I've been stressing the state of Sega's finances and public image because they were, no doubt in my mind, a problem at that time. By 1999 most people had forgotten about the Saturn, and the last time Sega was big was back at the start of the decade with the Megadrive - and even that was tarnished by the failures of its spin-off products.

    Sega desperately needed an image overhaul in order for people to take the DC as a platform worthy of serious consideration, and the only way you can do that is by spending a lot on marketing. The sad truth is they couldn't afford it, as they had their backs to the wall after suffering years of losses. Same deal with corporate America, EA didn't say no because Sony money-hatted their support, they simply didn't think they'd make money out of it - a truly horrible message to be sent from the biggest third party publisher in the world. They'd also made a bad enemy in Walmart after stiffing them back at the time of the Saturn's launch.

    I do remember a lot of kids playing the "wait for PS2" game, but similarly I also remember a lot psyched at the prospect of Dolphin, there are always fanboys!

    All I can say is this: the difference between the Dreamcast and the 360, is MS have done a brilliant job of marketing their machine. They got the message out early, and have aggressively gone after Sony. Sega didn't do that! They just dropped the DC onto the market and expected it to sell on the strength of its merits. And that, sadly, doesn't work.

  • Gecks #155 3 years ago

    the PS2 was superior to the DC (technologically). the DC was essentially a progression of existing arcade boards, so the boring hardware familiarisation process was well on the way, and arcade 'ports' were a done deal. the PS2 however was some pretty crazy architecture that was very powerful but no-one knew how to use it.

    so it follows that a few years down the line PS2 games would look a lot better, but the DC would never see that sort of progression because it was a known quantity. that's not to say it's bad, though. soul calibur et al look fantastic. stop worrying about this stuff.

    anyways, i never bought one because the PS1 was still doing strong well into the 00s, and the PC was going through something of a golden age. it wasn't a matter of "waiting" for the PS2.

    (also, my flatmate had a DC :p)

  • Rash' #156 3 years ago

    Can't really talk about the rest of the world, but here in europe it wasn't a lack of resources rather mismanagement of those resources. Spending finances on t-shirt sponsorship deals on football teams was money not well spent. And lets not forget the 6 billion players fiasco. Sega America's marketing was much better. No surprise really when you consider who ran their business up there.

  • floppylobster #157 3 years ago

    "Sony successfully appealing to a wider audience..."

    That means 'casual'

    (to all the misguided "Wii started casual gaming" fools).

    But we can go further back if you like.

  • floppylobster #158 3 years ago

    "It was at this point that the legacy of SEGA's worthless Megadrive expansions and the fumbled Saturn came back to haunt the company. In what would become a grim self-fulfilling prophecy, many punters were understandably quicker to put their cash towards the established and widely loved PlayStation brand "

    Don't forget the retailers. They didn't want another Sega product. Didn't want to promote it and didn't want to give shelf space to it.

  • floppylobster #159 3 years ago

    "the first to feature a karaoke game with microphone peripherals"

    The Wonder-Mega?

  • dryden555 #160 3 years ago

    on DC piracy: Every game CD had the boot info on the disk so the DC disks was VERY easy to pirate (no hardware mod needed). Word spread fast about that. Software devs knew this too and thought twice about making software for the DC. This article could have mentioned that.

    Look, the fact remains the console hardware was great but the games were almost entirely grade D filler. I played Metropolis Street Racer to death. Great game for its time.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #161 3 years ago

    @Greybeard.

    The marketing wouldn't have made any (hardly any) difference as I keep saying. We can agree to disagree on that if you like, but marketing doesn't magically put a DVD drive in your machine, and fighting against super hyped specs when all you can show is real 'here now' specs can't be easily fought against via marketing either. No matter how good a DC game looked on an advert (yes I know they didn't even bother), it wouldn't look as good as what the masses thought the PS2 was going to achieve.

    The 360 hasn't done what it's done by marketing either (at least until this Christmas). It's done it by MS having the cash to continue to invest no matter what and continue to price drop. The fact is, the PS3 isn't too far behind the 360 so that 'wait and see the super PS3' attitude still affected a lot of 360 sales. MS Xbox marketing is bloody awful imho; it's only worked because they can slap the £129.99 price tag on the end. They also had EA on side too. ;)

  • Calgon #162 3 years ago

    What utter bollocks some of the Sony fanboys speak...

    The Dreamcast certainly was way more efficient than the PS2(PS2 did have the raw power advantage but for every texture layer the "impressive" fillrate dwindled) and it did have its advantages over PS2 like as someone said twice as much video memory(although this had a much lower bandwidth so in some ways the PS2 had the advantage but for the PS2 4mb was never enough, they had to find work arounds later in the consoles life). The Dreamcast was more balanced and efficient, lack of efficiency results in less real world performance, a machine is only as fast/powerful as what you get after you factor in any bottlenecks, wastage ect... this much is true no matter what untapped potential there could have been if they made some better choices on any platform you'd like to mention.

    Theres a reason Sony make their hardware hard to program for or "different"... its so they can make ridiculous claims and never get called out for what the machine is really capable of, its an excuse to fall back on, an unknown quantity to hype up. Also even after they themselves know its pretty much tapped out you think they'd tell you that? Ask yourself that question honestly and you'll see why any dev or hardware designer worth their salt doesnt talk too much about untapped potential much it was marketing invention by Sony's PR team(nobody before Sony used that excuse and they certainly werent the first to try something different).

    While you talk bullshit about known quantities to make yourself feel better about PS3 still getting edged out by 360 after all this time, remember that:

    a) This is a stupid notion just because you use a traditional architecture doesnt mean the hardware itself is easy to tap 100%, there can be innovation within a traditional architecture too. I dont think you can argue that the PS3 is still not understood anymore, some devs are already using pretty much all SPE's in recent titles, all thats left after that is a process that happens on most consoles, streamlining and more efficient code/instructions suited to the hardware.

    b) Different isnt better by default, many Sony fanboys only understand its different beyond that they dont have a clue what any of it means or how it compares to others.

    c) The GPUs are always conveniently ignored... even on the subject of graphics, but heres the kicker its the PS3 who has basically an off the shelf PC GPU thats been stripped down for cost and bunged in the PS3, in the first year we were shown that without the help of CELL RSX struggled to match what Xenos was pumping out without breaking a sweat.

    d) Neither the GPU or CPU of the 360 have any equivelents on the PC, its a cop out excuse for those hoping the 360s progress will suddenly stand still even though it still has plenty of its own "untapped potential"... so far what we've seen and hear suggests 360 was built for gaming, PS3 was built for multimedia playback, both will continue to improve.


    What makes me laugh is the lengths people will go to, to convince themselves the "untapped potential" hype is all true and every little advancement is "a sure sign PS3 is gonna pull head into the distance mang!", we have some people convincing themselves that its already happened which is absurd.(with titles like MGS4 or Uncharted... its loonacy I tell you!)

    Most recently we have had KZ2 held up high by Sony worshipers, Killzone2 took 4 years to make very few console devs get that amount of time, even PS3 ones will be lucky after KZ2 and GT5, with the advantage GG had over other devs regardless of how hard the hardware is to program for you'd expect it to be significantly more of a technical acheivement than older titles on a competing console which took far less time and money to acheive... yet arguably its on par with the top titles on 360 for the most part(I say it looks worse in some areas but not by huge amount) with lighting, physics and animation being the areas it excells most(areas where the devs have focussed on, funnily enough the only areas where I said CELL could have a slight advantage in yet both of the consoles I beleive are capable of more than that shown in KZ2 or any console game out there you'd like to mention, also the XCPU still has untapped potential here too in the form of 360s VMX which is just as hard if not harder for devopers to code for).

    After the next big 360 game we will likely be hearing the same thing as last year, it will be constant back and forth with Sony fanboys desperately(thats the key word) trying to claim some sort of victory after such a dissapointing start. Trouble is the 360 will keep showing these fools that it's more than a match for the PS3 and better in alot of way as a games machine, neither is a bad machine(closest match for what they can/will dish out of any console generation) though so it's not worth arguing over too much which ever console you prefer.
    Edited by 2 at 02/02/09 @ 13:40

  • OldK1ngCole #163 3 years ago

    For me, the Dreamcast was an awesome machine, setting up many of the gaming franchises we know and love today. My own favourite example of this being Metropolis Street Racer, a game that later went on to become Project Gotham Racing. Using your triggers to accelerate and brake is something we now take for granted.

    My only gripe with the machine itself was mine had a dodgy AV Port which resulted in me having to fiddle with the AV Cable to get it to work or else it just kept rebooting. I remember on one occasion this took around a hour. All was forgotten once it finally booted though :)

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #164 3 years ago

    "Shadow of the Colossus (1080i)"

    I don't give a crap how many "i"s it's got, SotC looks like a piece of shit next to Shenmue. (No gameplay judgements there, purely aesthetic.)

  • SFKosmo #165 3 years ago

    Rash': People really have to let that technologically inferior rubbish go.

    Is that so? Then how come almost nobody dumped the PS2 when GameCube and Xbox came out? The technological gap between any of those two and PS2 is probably greater than the one between PS2 and Dreamcast.

    Hardware specs are irrelevant, if it was the other way around (the PS2 had Dreamcast's hardware and vice-versa) the end result would still have been the same.

  • Gecks #166 3 years ago

    @calgon
    "Theres a reason Sony make their hardware hard to program for... its so they can make ridiculous claims an never get called out for what the machine is really capable of, its an excuse to fall back on, an unknown quantity to hype up."

    come now, you really think that would be a valid tactic? how's it been working out for them with the PS3, exactly?

    i really don't buy claims that the DC was more powerful ("more efficient" is something else entirely). i spent the best part of a year programming for the PS2 and it really was quite a clever bit of kit. the only way they could have got the kind of performance you see in the games today from circa 2000(?) hardware was to go crazy like they did. from what i've read and seen of the dreamcast it was some great known technology and the results were instant, but there was non of the (eg) VU1 trickery available to the more persistent dev.

    this wasn't smoke and mirrors. it was a lot of R&D work, a lot of money spent on custom fabs, and results that speak for themselves. the hardware was good and they actually could make money from their business model. sony did it right with the PS2.

    (and i love my 360 and don't care for the PS3. leave me out of that stuff)
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 14:01

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #167 3 years ago

    For once Rev, you funny haired man, I totally agree with you.

  • Calgon #168 3 years ago

    SpaceMidget75 I dunno I think the "untapped potential" hype has been less effective with better informed gamers in this internet era but it did help them among a minority I suppose(but were they already Sony fanboys to begin with? Id think so, if not let them beleive what they will at the very least this time theres more information for all sides and mags are less keen to repeat what Sony say as gospel after being made to look like gullable jackasses :) ).

    I think some of the brand loyalty will remain but it has dimished atleast so MS will take heart from that, theyve proved they can beat them in a way(at one time they might have been thinking it didnt matter what they tried). Although I think MS missed a huge opportunity to take a clear lead in second place while Sony were looking dazed in the first year with their reliability problems, theres no one to blame but themselves for that one, although some of the attitudes towards it("they bloody meant it all those evil M$ bastards";) have been hypocritical to say the least, its one of the worst cases but:

    a) They did just about pull through and get a handle on it eventually(and it was no small task, didnt come cheap either).

    b) They arent the first platform holder to experience it, both their competitors have.

    I just hope MS have some new unnanounced first party stuff(still yet to see a big budget game based on proprietary 360 engine too) on the way personally, it would be the best way to compete with the CELL hype by staying ahead.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #169 3 years ago

    I totally agree Calgon, I never said it's at the same level as it was. Indeed, most of the Sony backlash is precisely due to the fact that some of us more informed (or unblinkered) people saw through it this time. At the time, even I wasn't in a position to dispute what the PS2 was going to achieve from the hype. It hadn't been done at that level by a company before.

    However this time many people knew that those pre-renders of the car smash and the promise of 120fps 1080p were complete bollocks.

    ...some didn't though. LOL.

  • Calgon #170 3 years ago

    Gecks first off I never said PS2 was a bad machine(infact overall I say it was more powerfull yes... but not to the extent people were led to beleive, are you telling me that wasnt a fair summary?) but think I know enough about the PS2 to say it wasnt nearly as powerfull as Sony made it out to be, I said the Dreamcast really was better in some ways and it was easily more efficient.

    the only way they could have got the kind of performance you see in the games today from circa 2000(?) hardware was to go crazy like they did.

    You make yourself out to be someone talking from experience and come out with a statement like that? It proves to me that alot of people who work or have worked in the industry dont necessarly need in depth knowlege at all, infact I wonder why I ever thought that with some of the the PR talk. For the first 2 years the PS2 performance wasnt anything special, by the time it was anything to be pleased about you could have used PC chips at the time which would easily beat the PS2 on raw power while matching it on price(what it costs to manufacture atleast, factoring in process shrinks maybe it could have worked out cheaper in the end)... and what do you know Xbox showed you just that. Yet still you reckon their decision was wise? You still think CELL is seeming like money well spent? How long did the interest last in CELL tech? Good ideas catch on fast in that industry especially when the notion is to more power at a lower cost.

    What I said was bang on the money about the PS2 btw, you can check any specifics mentioned(I deliberately didnt mention many or go into to too much detail because it was something I did to death last gen). Untapped potential is a marketing ploy... they are NOT the first to try something different with their hardware. The PS2 did have its bottlenecks, there was a heck of hype and alot of smoke and mirrors from their PR team, even some of the games were hyped up to be more than they really were(on a technical basis)... which although looked good were done though cutting corners and cleaver art direction.

    come now, you really think that would be a valid tactic? how's it been working out for them with the PS3, exactly?

    There are people who do still fall for that tactic, the good thing is people are catching on(Ive already been through this are you being deliberately ignorrant?), there have been some retractions and embaressed excusses this time around, it can only be for the better if they learn from it. Its not suprising though what Sony do best is marketing(or have done in the past... thats what sold the PS1 to the none geeks)... marketing in many sectors is often used in ways that arent the most honest or modest way, so why do so many companies do it? There must be plenty of people who do fall for it is the only logical conclusion(honestly if you cant think of many advertisements that set off your "do you take me for an idiot" alarm then you either never watch them or need to open your eyes).
    Edited by 7 at 02/02/09 @ 14:56

  • AbyssUK #171 3 years ago

    Playstation - simpsons Dreamcast = Futurama

    Anybody with half a brain knows Futurama was funnier, slicker and better than the Simpsons. But everybody already liked the simpsons so viewing figures stayed sky high. Futurama did well but not well enough so got canned.

    Conclusion; most people in the world don't have half a brain.

  • kwesleyb #172 3 years ago

    Ive never played on a Dreamcast before, but suddenly after reading this article, i want to play on one...

    Odd..

    /looks on ebay

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #173 3 years ago

    @MattDamon

    GTA2 was on DC and GTA3 wasn't released until Oct 2001. The DC was discontinued in Mar 2001.

    To say Sony had GTA and Sega didn't is wrong.

    Also I would have called Sonic a mass market franchise. Shame it's a steaming pile of shit now. ;)

    True about things like MGS and Fifa though that carried over from the PS1. Most of the new big games the PS2 had (like GTA3), I have no doubt would have appeared on the DC if it was the 'winning' console.




  • Calgon #174 3 years ago

    Yeah we've all heard the story about MS having first refusal on GTA3, Ed Fries will never live that down... maybe they originally envisioned a DC version when they were in the early stages.

  • Gecks #175 3 years ago

    @Calgon
    "You make yourself out to be someone talking from experience and come out with a statement like that? It proves to me that alot of people who work or have worked in the industry dont necessarly need in depth knowlege at all, infact I wonder why I ever thought that with some of the the PR talk."

    i'm not in "the industry" i did my final year uni project on PS2 hardware. i could bore you with technical things about it but there are far better places and people to go to if you're interested. plus i only got a 2:2 :p

    "or the first 2 years the PS2 performance wasnt anything special, by the time it was anything to be pleased about you could have used PC chips at the time which would easily beat the PS2 on raw performance... and what do you know Xbox showed you just that. Yet still you reckon their decision was wise?"

    what? sony needed to release hardware back then because of boring hardware cycles. of course they could have waited and come back with something even better, but it would have cost them the market. the xbox was great but came too late, and wasn't a profitable machine. slapping off the shelf PC components into a box will of course be a killer piece of kit, but it won't ever turn a profit. sony and sega couldn't afford a loss leader in the MS sense of the phrase (that is, not expecting to make any money at all in their first gen). so yes, their decision was wise,

    i don't know anything about the CELL, and i don't care. at all.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #176 3 years ago

    Getting way off topic you two. :)

    Games on both systems were visually very similar during the DC's life. Much like the 360 and PS3 now or the GC and XBox.

    No one knows what DC games would have looked like now because it never happened but we can use examples of other competing machines to see that I suspect they would have remained pretty close.

  • Calgon #177 3 years ago

    @Gecks ah it wasnt you who turned this into 360 vs PS3 I realise fair do's then.

    I make informed opinions just like a dev would is what I was trying to say... not every dev agrees with each other(although I seem to remember Carmack making me say to myself "thats what I said" on a few occasions this time around which was almost worth a chufty badge for me), just as not every hardware designer agrees with each other, its the way it has been and always will be. If you know your stuff you'll know these discussions can be never ending with no conclusion, so I have grown a bit bored of these debates but still find it hard to resist on occasion(I'll be set for a while now untill the next face off... haha ).

    Sony are far from a position of being some sort of voice of authority within the CPU industry... they are beginners, a small fish in a big pond, yet Sony fanboys hold every word they speak up as gospel. Its amusing when for the most part it's absurdities but sometimes it's very annoying with how repetitive it is(almost like theres some mass brainwashing going on is what I thought last gen).
    Edited by 8 at 02/02/09 @ 15:25

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #178 3 years ago

    "I don't give a crap how many "i"s it's got, SotC looks like a piece of shit next to Shenmue. (No gameplay judgements there, purely aesthetic.) "

    I've put in bold the part you missed zero as you're obviously a mental.

  • bad09 #179 3 years ago

    OK, I'm sorry to ask what's all this 1080i rubbish? Since when was the PS2 hd Zero?

    Or are you REALLY being pathetic and comparing a upscaled PS2 game on PS3 to a format that's been dead for 10 years?

    Oh BTW, just because you post it doesn't make it true. Personally I thought SOTC (and ICO) was overrated poo, am I right and you wrong? No we just like DIFFERENT games, get over it a enjoy your PS.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #180 3 years ago

    @Zero
    I love the Team Ico games. They'll eventually force me to buy a PS3. But neither game was a good GRAPHICALLY as Shenmue. I don't care how high SOTC's res is. Fool.

    If you're talking artistically then we could have a debate...

    ...but you're not.


    I can actually load both up now and check. Can you?

    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 17:25

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #181 3 years ago

    {
    bad09
    02-Feb-09 17:16:43

    OK, I'm sorry to ask what's all this 1080i rubbish? Since when was the PS2 hd Zero?
    }

    Do some research before posting utter pish.

    http://hdgames.net/

    Erm...says 480p. What site are you looking at? That's some serious self-pwnage. =]

  • bad09 #182 3 years ago

    @ Zero_Cool

    I have no idea what RLLMUK is but I guess it's a bad thing.....

    Wow it seems the Zero was right. It seems like 3 or 4 games actually did this with the correct cable and display, but how many ACTUALLY used this (or cared back then).

    Again I ask was the PS2 HD? 99.9 % of the world would say no. Plank...

  • photoboy #183 3 years ago

    "it's hard to begrudge Dreamcast fans their lingering resentment that a technologically inferior console with a fairly dire line-up of early titles was able to so easily steamroller their beloved box just on the basis of brand loyalty"

    Well said Eurogamer, well said.

  • MilkYMoO #184 3 years ago

    The best console ever!, damn I miss 4 player matches on DC quake 3. I actually won a DC keyboard on dreamarena, those were the days.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #185 3 years ago

    No

    Just tried it. There is no native support for 1080i through my component cable. Only 480p as that site lists in its STANDARD columns. After doing some research it looks like another idiot has added 1080i to the comments because you can use the Xploder software to scale the image.

    That's no different than me running it through my Denon 1909's upscaler which I could do to Shenmue too.

    IF you do manage to prove me wrong (I'd be interested to see how you do do it natively) it's still a mute point as bad09 said.

  • gelf #186 3 years ago

    I always got the impression that a big reason Sega tended to fail because they made games that just didn't appeal to a mainstream audience. The sad thing for me personally is that's exactly why I loved them. I miss Sega, the real Sega.

    Its sad to see them these days probably being much more profitable shoving out one shit Sonic game after another instead.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 17:58

  • varsas #187 3 years ago

    @djronz:

    lol your having a laugh right? how was ps2 tencnologically inferior? did dreamcast have dvd? could it have done gran turismo or god of war? dreamcast died because while millions were happily playing resident evils, medal of honours, gran tourismos and wipeouts sega offered us crazi tax! dont get me wrong i was a huge sega fan at one time but i really get sick of this notion that the whole world was somehow duped into buying ps2. ok sony spouted and still spout some outrageous claims but, hey, its called marketing. dreamcast fans...get over it.

    The DC had the superior RE game; none of the series was made for PS2; it's nice that you omitted the large number of superior SEGA produced games in the comparison. GT was a PS1 game and easily possible on the DC. I assume you meant GT2.

    @gelf: I disagree that they didn't have mass market appeal; that's what their arcade games were about at least if mass market you meant gamer community. I don't think games went mass market until the Wii.
    Edited by 2 at 02/02/09 @ 18:07

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #188 3 years ago

    bad09

    Interesting he calls us retards and then leaves. ;)

    Neither wiki or hdgames list it as 1080p:

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HD_Enhanced_PS2_g ames
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HD_...[/link]

    I hate it when people find one line of text on the whole internet and then use it as a basis for an argument. It's obvious he's never compared 1080i SOTC to Shemnue! Just wasting comment space. Annoying.

    Lucky you left eh Zero?

  • bad09 #189 3 years ago

    @ SpaceMidget75

    Heh, PS2 1080i, now that's the best fanboy argument I ever heard, headbog would be proud :)

    / throws out HD gen and goes back to PS2

    Funny thing is most PS3 owners I know don't even play THAT in HD ;)





  • Amoebalove #190 3 years ago

    Zero_cool is an utter tool!

  • Ryze #191 3 years ago

    @ N.A.T.O

    Such hate and bollocks.

    As you mentioned, the DC had Quake 3 - which could play against the PC game, Half-life, Unreal Tournament, Soldier of Fortune, and it ran Windows CE. It also allowed gameplay using K&M, which the 360 never has.

    The 360 has inherited many of the DC's games, and has variety and quality in its games on the same or better scale than Dreamcast.

    The only thing done wrong on the 360 was the build quality. You obviously just hate Microsoft. Admit it. I've hated on M$ at time for some (loads) of their actions.

    The 360 since late 2007, however, has been fantastic.

  • N.A.T.O #192 3 years ago

    Ryze

    Whoa Son!

    I don't hate MS (only Sony ;-)). I owned both xbox 1 and 360, and thought they were very capable machines. I just don't think the 360 is the main successor to DC.

    My contention is that Nintendo now hold the torch for Videogaming. It's nothing to do with hating MS.

    MS have made PC 'type' gaming mainstream. Whether thats a good or a bad thing depends on your point of view.

    As for me talking Bollocks.... yeah, I can't deny that I do a lot of the time. Peace.

  • smelly #193 3 years ago

    before i was a nintendo fanboy - i was a sega fanboy.. heck i guess i just love good games!

  • smelly #194 3 years ago

    as for ps2/dreamcast comparision..

    Look at shemue.. the ps2 just couldnt do that - even if it tried it's hardest.

  • GreyBeard #195 3 years ago

    The PowerVR2 graphics chip in the DC was good, but it had a lot of limitations. Calling it superior to the PS2 is a bit of a push in my estimation as although it was better than the EE+GS in some ways it was a long way behind in others.

    The tile-based rendering system that was PVR's specialty was very fast and efficient in its day, but lacked fill-rate compared to every other graphics technology. On the other hand the GS was all fill-rate and very few bells and whistles in texturing terms. Chalk and cheese really.

    I find it very doubtful that the DC could have equalled GoW2 for example, and quite honestly in the long run the lack of a DVD based storage solution would have really hurt. If you think of the number of discs titles like D2 and Shenmue were stretching to so early on in the console's life, it has to be said that the DC was always going to have problems with really big, data-heavy games.

    For example I can't imagine GTA working with disc swaps between zones. DVD was a smart move on Sony's part.

    @Smelly

    Have you seen Yakuza 2?

    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 20:35

  • Ryze #196 3 years ago

    @ N.A.T.O

    :D

    Just bought my 1st Dreamcast from eBay for £26.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/09 @ 22:44

  • The-Bodybuilder #197 3 years ago

    Zero_Cool, bless him. Really not the sharpest tool in the box.

  • bad09 #198 3 years ago

    "Just bought my 1st Dreamcast from eBay for £26."

    Awesome news Ryze a few have picked one after these articles. Mine was £45 inc p&p but it did have two vmu, a few games and a wheel :)

    Just don't outbid me on any games on eBay! I've got a few coming with mine but I'm like a kid checking out eBay seeing what games to buy on pay day, good job it's all quiet on the current gen front.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #199 3 years ago

    I've still got my DC wired up with the VGA adapter and crack out the odd game from time to time.

    I've also got 2 lightguns, 2 steering wheels, 2 sets of marracas (one set official), a keyboard, mouse and fishing rod.

    That shit aint going anywhere near ebay. ;)

  • bad09 #200 3 years ago

    @ SpaceMidget75

    Yeah my one died but if it hadn't I'd still have it. I'd love to get HOTD2 and some guns but they'd be useless on my LCD :(

    Can't wait to play one again though (just gotta get some dial up of all things!) I'm like Cartman waiting for the Wii :)

    / Goes into mountains and freezes himself for 3-4 days

  • Rash' #201 3 years ago

    N/A: You've taken that quote out of context and so your argument of is of little relevance to me.

    I see Calgon is typically spouting his usual anti-Sony rhetoric. Poor lad really needs to get some reality on his perspective.

  • gelf #202 3 years ago

    @varsas
    I meant the mainstream gaming community at the time. I think their arcade games only had any major appeal in arcades themselves, on consoles they where too easily dismissed as short shallow experiences. But I'll always take a short pure fun focused Sega Rally to a bloated GT.
    Aside from the Arcade output a lot of the games where too quirky and different to appeal. I couldn't explain what made Jet Set Radio so good to anyone.

    All these articles have made me miss Sega Consoles. I'm pretty much a PC gamer these days since this generation moved away from more arcadey stuff leaving the only games I wanna play being mainly the ones that are probably best played on the PC anyway.
    Edited by 1 at 03/02/09 @ 12:11

  • judas #203 3 years ago

  • SFKosmo #204 3 years ago

    Rash': "N/A: You've taken that quote out of context and so your argument of is of little relevance to me."

    Oops, my bad, I now understand what you meant.

    /feels stupid

  • kungfool #205 3 years ago

    Sega came pretty close to putting a DVD in the Dreamcast instead of it's 'GD-ROM', which would have made some difference. I always felt if it had been able to play DVDs instead of having a modem, it would have worked out better.

    Aside from Sega Europe's risible and misdirected marketing efforts, it really didn't help that the press totally fell for the PS2 hype pre-launch. What was the Edge PS2 cover... '70-something million polygons and counting'? Yeah, right!

    Ultimately, for all I loved the Dreamcast, the games were too niche. People actually didn't want arcade conversions (sorry Rev Campbell, you're wrong on this one); after five years or so of Tekken on PSone, they wanted something 'new'. Sony's talk of 'Emotion Engines' promised a new dawn in gaming, of games with a little more depth to them, and I believe that somewhere among all the hype, that's what we eventually got with things like Ico and GTA III.

  • AbracadaverAK #206 3 years ago

    "...with most gamers opting to wait for the sure-to-be-awesome PS2, with its mysterious "emotion engine" and games that would literally emerge from the screen and fellate you senseless."

    That marketing campaign didn't last long before being banned...