DMC 4 same on both consoles

By Robert Purchese Published 2 May, 2007

"Pretty much identical," says producer.

Devil May Cry 4 producer Hiroyuki Kobayashi has said that Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of the game will be "pretty much identical".

"As far as the Xbox [360] and the PS3 are concerned, the capabilities and the features in the game we expect will be the same," Kobayashi told IGN. "Our plan is to pretty much make them identical."

He also confirmed that Dante will be playable in the new game with familiar moves and abilities, and will probably make an appearance later on in the storyline.

However, the focus of Devil May Cry 4 will be on newcomer Nero, a devil hunter belonging to the Order of the Sword. He wields a double-barrelled pistol called Blue Rose and an enormous sword known as the Red Queen, and will be able to pull off a myriad special abilities and attacks with them.

And while controlling Nero will feel instantly familiar to fans of the series, Kobayashi was keen to point out that the new star is far from a carbon copy of Dante. He's more sarcastic for a start - with quips and observations springing from his lips like something to something else that works analogously.

Unfortunately there's still no news on when we can expect the game, but both Xbox 360 and PS3 versions are expected to launch simultaneously, with a PC outing to follow.

Head over to our Devil May Cry 4 gamepage for all the latest news and media.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (109) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • speedtrax #1 5 years ago

    was anyone expecting differently?

  • Dark_Phoenix_PT #2 5 years ago

    What a surprise!
    Xbox 1.5 = PS3 teh real nexzt gen

  • citizenHUNTER #3 5 years ago

    I've never played a Devil May Cry game so think I'm best suited to posting here. Ha ha. But alas why is the PlayStation 3 not going to show at least some headway on 360 graphics. Sooner or later surely. I can't fail to laugh at how hyped up the PS3 has been and how utterly ballsed up it's become if this supposedly superior console can only match something that's been out for well over a year and is significantly cheaper (yeah yeah yadda yadda bluray expensive etc). Honestly PS fans must think the PS3 is superior (in simlar vain to PS2 vs Dreamcast, DC in my opinion offering much crisper smoother graphics than PS2 managed for a long long time), but it's not really. Marginally and in time there's no way that it'll suddenyl be leapfrogging 360's graphics, not in any greatly perceivable way. So glad i bought my 360 now, despite it's few flaws (basically the noise + the HDD situation, and pay for internet play tho it's worth it).

  • joeking #4 5 years ago

    OH NOES! WHATEVER WILL THE FANBOY TARDS FROTH ABOUT NOW?!!!??!

  • SeesThroughAll #5 5 years ago

    So glad i bought my 360 now, despite it's few flaws (basically the noise + the HDD situation, and pay for internet play tho it's worth it).

    So glad you managed to justify your purchase... You can also come back and justify your purchase further when your first red ring of death comes and you're waiting for the replacement.

    Few, but big, flaws there, mate.

  • #6 5 years ago

    Mapster May Cry.

    But then again, he may not!

  • dirigiblebill #7 5 years ago

    Nero plays differently because he's more sarcastic? COP-OUT.

  • ecureuil #8 5 years ago

    OH NOES! WHATEVER WILL THE FANBOY TARDS FROTH ABOUT NOW?!!!??!

    It's the 360 fanboys that spout the most shit, tbh.

  • kaosridder #9 5 years ago

    ^said the ps-fanboy thus spouting some more shit

    And bullocks a few years ago, too. But even SDF have given up on Sony it seems. Or are the merely waiting for a surprise attack. Perhaps hoping that Halo3 will suck and then coming out in full force? Who knows.
    Edited by 2 at 02/05/07 @ 12:47

  • Guff-Pipe #10 5 years ago

    Doesnt he say
    "The the plan is to make them identical"?

    Surely that means they are identical on purpose, regardless
    of any technical adavantage each machine may have over another

  • Lex #11 5 years ago

    I wonder if there is a forum somewhere where folks bitch about their toaster being a better brand than some other.

  • Cloudane #12 5 years ago

    Whoa, you all seem to be forgetting a little something else.

    The pads.

  • Dizzy #13 5 years ago

    "You can also come back and justify your purchase further when your first red ring of death comes and you're waiting for the replacement. "

    Or waiting for your controller to sync ofc...

  • dirigiblebill #14 5 years ago

    'Surely that means they are identical on purpose, regardless
    of any technical adavantage each machine may have over another'

    Sure thing, but people will be a bunch of silly arseholes and turn it into a fanboy war.

    Does anyone here want to talk about the game, rather than the system it runs on?

  • richardiox #15 5 years ago

    I love it when Bundy complains about "fanboy tards".

  • chupachups #16 5 years ago

    "was anyone expecting differently?"

    The people who paid £430 for a PS3 instead of £200 - £270 for an Xbox 360?

  • kaosridder #17 5 years ago

    Lex - good question. But then again many seem to care about utter pointless things like whether a soccer-team wins or not. Guess us humans want conflict.

  • Gurgeh #18 5 years ago

    "Surely that means they are identical on purpose, regardless
    of any technical adavantage each machine may have over another "

    Or regardless of how hard it is to program one over the other ;-)

    From this point on I doubt that any major cross-platform titles will look *that* different on either XBox of PS. Both Sony and MS will bust a gut helping developers to make sure their version isn't portrayed as inferior graphically.

  • mattigan #19 5 years ago

    Basically this says to me that it is being developed on the "easy to develop for - allegedly" 360, then ported to the PS3.

    Who'da thunk it?

  • ecureuil #20 5 years ago

    ^said the ps-fanboy thus spouting some more shit

    Not at all. I don't favour any of the consoles.

  • Talha #21 5 years ago

    "BOTH consoles"?????


    How despicably PATRONISING of EG not to include the Wii. It should have read, 'DMC4 on both consoles that don't matter!!" ;-)

    Seriously, Nintendo should sue EG right this minute.

  • SeesThroughAll #22 5 years ago

    To me it says that on the 360, they're only going to use one of the cores, and that on the PS3, they won't touch the SPUs.

    It means that neither platform will be pushed to its limits.

    Doesn't stop the game from being great, though.
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 12:52

  • ZuluHero #23 5 years ago

    just adding fuel to the fire:

    Its not the same as the 360 is like a million pounds cheaper.

    /holds out hands ;)

  • Moz #24 5 years ago

    "But alas why is the PlayStation 3 not going to show at least some headway on 360 graphics."

    But the PS3 graphics process isn't any better then the 360, so for most games there isn't going to be agraphical difference worth any note. (Crappy ports in either direction being the exception)

    The extra "power" of the PS3 should however lead to better AI and physics in PS3 games compaired to 360 and this can be used to make things look and play better. Try shooting the windows in Resistance and you'll see that the glass breaks in a realistic(ish) manner. And yes the 360 has the power to do this to a extent but the 360 is more limited on that front then the PS3.

    For the record I have both systems and they are both great.

  • Guff-Pipe #25 5 years ago

    The people who paid £430 for a PS3 instead of £200 - £270 for an Xbox 360?

    Suppose a little but, but the extra cash for a more relaible machine and all the extras (if you want them) will make sense for a lot of people.

  • dirigiblebill #26 5 years ago

    I think this series is getting a little tired to be honest. Somebody needs to do an RE4 with it.

  • fingersthebeaver #27 5 years ago

    To all the people throwing stones at the 360 for reliabillity, it has taken a while to reach this level of problem and if you look at Sony's track record, and the fact you are buying a first generation disk player, it might be wise to hold of the attack for a year and see whether the PS3 is reliable or just new.

  • chupachups #28 5 years ago

    "Suppose a little but, but the extra cash for a more relaible machine and all the extras (if you want them) will make sense for a lot of people."

    If you're worried about reliability on the 360, you could buy two Core 360s for less than the price of one PS3.

  • joeking #29 5 years ago

    "OH NOES! WHATEVER WILL THE FANBOY TARDS FROTH ABOUT NOW?!!!??!"

    "It's the 360 fanboys that spout the most shit, tbh."

    I was talking about both camps.

  • Scientist #30 5 years ago

    "I wonder if there is a forum somewhere where folks bitch about their toaster being a better brand than some other."

    It has to be a Dualit. :-)

  • RexRunti #31 5 years ago

    Wow... an article about a game being identical on both systems prompts more flaming that actuall points out the differences...

    Well if you can't beat them...

    @Guff-Pipe
    PS3 Extras? Plural? As in more than one?

    Oh as the Wii has already been crowbarred in above... Surely the PC version will be the best.

    PS There is some sarcasm in this post (I guess I'm more Nero than Dante) see if you can spot it.

  • lambtron #32 5 years ago

    Oh god - there will be no difference across platforms!!!!!

    /world ends.

  • Moz #33 5 years ago

    "Basically this says to me that it is being developed on the "easy to develop for - allegedly" 360, then ported to the PS3. "

    If that is the case then they managed to keep 360 version quiet for along time, it was only anounce as 360 a couple of months back. Having said that it looks like a similar graphics engine to Lost planet, which in it's self looks like an extended version of their last gen graphics engine.

    At the end of the it doesn't matter which system it was developed on as long as they take the time optimise the engine properly on both machines.

    Cross-platform games are likely to look the same on boths system cos it's just not worth making to sets of textures and models unless you have to. In the last gen the xbox1 was alot more power then the PS2 to the point that it was worth making the effort to make the Xbox version look better. The 8Mb RAM in PS2 constrained it from the start, I remeber the developers of Grand Torismo 3 complaining about it because their orginal car models were 4Mb each!

  • Guff-Pipe #34 5 years ago

    If you're worried about reliability on the 360, you could buy two Core 360s for less than the price of one PS3.

    Didnt really wan to get into this guff again as its pointless and I realise its horses for courses, but reliabiltiy aside what happens if i want, internet browsing through my main screen, a large HD (where I can store video), built in wiFi, free on-line service, built in HD movie player, HDMI output and no need for a play and charge kit? I had a 360 and it was fantastic, but in the ned I just wanted one box that had everything in. Nothing wrong with that is there?

  • Guff-Pipe #35 5 years ago

    @Guff-Pipe
    PS3 Extras? Plural? As in more than one?

    See my last post.

  • BigE0n #36 5 years ago

    @ Moz

    Why do you think the PS3 will be any better than the 360 when it comes to AI?

  • Hypnopedia #37 5 years ago

    @Guff-Pipe

    At least all those extra's will fill the your spare time while you wait for games to play....

    /holds hands up to cheap shot, goes back to his 360, his frigging 4th!!!

    ;D

  • Guff-Pipe #38 5 years ago

    @Guff-Pipe

    At least all those extra's will fill the your spare time while you wait for games to play....

    /holds hands up to cheap shot, goes back to his 360, his frigging 4th!!!

    ;D

    LOL I live in hope!

  • Moz #39 5 years ago

    @BigE0n

    Because you have more processing power, it's fundemental fact that the Cell has more raw power then Xenon about twice as much, so if some writes an AI routeen and you could have 10 computer controlled characters using it on Xenon then you would be able to have 20 such computer controlled characters running on the Cell. Or you could have 10 characters with better AI

  • fingersthebeaver #40 5 years ago

    @moz all of which would be pointless if your GPU can't handle drawing it. Same arguement for the physics, windows breaking into a million fragments is great but it will choke the GPU on a PS3.
    At the end of the day I don't see either console having the upper hand in this generation on any front. So it comes down to the wonderfull point made by guf pipe, if you want the blue ray and internet browser go PS3 if not may as well buy the cheaper console.

  • SBfistfun #41 5 years ago

    Wow he's more sarcastic that's really going to change the gameplay

    Hmm was that sarcastic?

  • Mr_Brown #42 5 years ago

    Except DMC4 will be cheaper to play on the Xbox 360...heh sorry had to be said.

    Not much of a shock though. It is the same game, doesn't really matter about the power of the console, if they made them different to each other that'd just cost more for capcom and probably upset a few fanboys. Meaning theres no point! Its the same game on different consoles. If it was on the Wii on the other hand, then it should be different.

  • Santino #43 5 years ago

    more Sarcastic???!! Dante is one of the worst characters in any game cos of how cheesy and 'uncool' he is, and they make this new guy more sarcastic? actually i'm sure i heard him shout "slamdunk!" when hitting an enemy...erm yeah how about not aiming the game at little teenage boys? i finished the 1st game and gave the 3rd a chance, now i am completely washing my hands of this crap, i cant stand the cheese. Not to mention the fact that the enemies are there as combo fodder nothing more, only the bosses are somewhat a challenge, the action genre has moved on and DMC doesn't seem to have noticed that.

  • RexRunti #44 5 years ago

    @Moz

    Except AI sub routines have barely changed in the last ten years especially not in terms of resources needed and besides there's no way the RSX could handle twice number of bad guys on the screen at the same time. Besides when your fighting 100s of opponents at once you don't want each of them to have perfect AI as it would be impossible to play, you would want them pretty dumb (see Dead Rising, Kameo, Dynasty Warriors et al). What you really want is smart squads in your game but games like Half Life 1 have been able to handle this for years. The cell could theoretically handle physics better then the 360's CPU, but by the time developers have truly got to grips with it other developers will be farming it out to the 360's graphics card as it reportedly was designed to handle physics as well.

  • Moz #45 5 years ago

    "So it comes down to the wonderfull point made by guf pipe, if you want the blue ray and internet browser go PS3 if not may as well buy the cheaper console."

    That plus first party games.

    And your probably right about the physics choking the graphics card in that respect, but you could see more realist rag doll ect on PS3 as well as AI, if this is going to going make games any more fun to play or not is yet to be seen.

  • septimus #46 5 years ago

    Until a developer releases a multi-platform game tht has been developed to the best of both consoles ability, this is always going to be the case.

    Unfortunately for PS3, X360 has become the primary first dev platform for most multiplatform games.

  • andrewwd #47 5 years ago

    Oh noes! quick get onto petitiononline.com

    "Please Capcom don't give the 360 version of DMC4 the same graphics as the PS3, we need to justify our outlay. k thx, the undersigned"

  • Eighthours #48 5 years ago

    It's the 360 fanboys that spout the most shit, tbh.

    It really isn't, mainly because at the moment there's no need for 360 owners to defend their machine's capabilities!

  • sanctusmortis #49 5 years ago

    Mein Gott, you people make Minter weep.

    Look, it's a GOOD THING. Everyone gets a fair deal, as one version isn't stunted compared to the other.

    Quit bitching and sniping about hardware. IT'S. A. GAME.

  • tomwhitaker #50 5 years ago

    "It has to be a Dualit. :-)"

    No way, KitchenAid FTW.

  • MrBiggles #51 5 years ago

    Well we all knew the biggest myth in gaming wa that PS3 was some how superior to 360

    didn't we?

  • BigE0n #52 5 years ago

    @Moz Where is it a proven fact that Cell is about twice as powerful as Xenon?

    Im not having a go but people forget that the xenon isnt just a standard CPU it has had extras added to it like Dot product etc...

    All Im saying is both machines seem equal on the CPU side... remember the Cell has no built in branch prediction so some of the SPU's are going to get tied up with that.

    The only real difference I can see is the UMA on the Xbox 360 makes it a little more scallable to the different game types you can code for (i.e. A Fighting game that doesnt use so much in the way of game engine resources can use more of the 512Mb mem for the graphics, where as a Engine heavey game like dead rising can use less on the graphics and more for all the AI enemys etc..) where as the PS3 obviously has its memory split into 256Mb for engine and 256Mb Graphics so its far less scalable for different game types.

  • sport #53 5 years ago

    Im not having a go but people forget that the xenon isnt just a standard CPU it has had extras added to it like Dot product etc...


    and more ball-bearings, ppl always forget the that the 360 has more...

  • Moz #54 5 years ago

    @BigE0n

    I've used the exact same argument in favour of the Xbox memory config on other posts.

    As for the CPU power I'd still say that the cell has a significant edge over the Xenon.

    But then the Xenos is technically better then RSX, to the point that I expect the best graphics at the end of this gen to be on the 360, but equally I'd expect there to be games on PS3 with noticably better physics.

    EDIT/ first sentence made no sence!
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 14:31

  • BigE0n #55 5 years ago

    @sport true... :o)

    But remeber that they are made from recycled Aldi Baked Bean tins which is why the Xbox 360 is louder too...

    The ps3's are made from recycled Heinz Baked Bean tins which is why its quieter but costs more...

    :-)

  • Darren #56 5 years ago

    I'm a PS3 and 360 owner (and Wii too) and I can say with confidence that the 360 has the edge graphically with better anti-aliasing, texture filtering and framerates in general for multiformat games. The PS3 seems to have less noticeable v-sync tearing in its games though (but give it chance...) and games that rely heavily on its standard hard drive, obviously run better than they do on the 360, e.g. Oblivion.

    I'd expect Devil May Cry 4 to look slightly less jaggy and with better filtering on the 360 - the recent screenshots of 360 Virtua Fighter 5 seem to show its superiority in this area - and, of course, have rumble otherwise I'd have expected both games to be pretty much identical anyway. Perhaps the PS3 will have faster loading times thanks to its reliance on HDD cache files and it might handle lots of particle effects better but that's it.

    Which version I buy depends very much on the reviews but I'd expect to be buying it for the 360 even if it's only for the rumble effects which I miss dearly on the PS3...

  • Guff-Pipe #57 5 years ago

    @sport true... :o)

    But remeber that they are made from recycled Aldi Baked Bean tins which is why the Xbox 360 is louder too...

    The ps3's are made from recycled Heinz Baked Bean tins which is why its quieter but costs more...

    :-)

    This is Fact. my mates uncle worked at both factorys!! You must know him!

  • BigE0n #58 5 years ago

    @Guff-Pipe

    Another 'Fact' is that ABBA spelt backwards is Still ABBA (freaky!)

  • SomaticSense #59 5 years ago

    @Guff-Pipe

    "But remeber that they are made from recycled Aldi Baked Bean tins which is why the Xbox 360 is louder too... "

    If only. Seriously, the build quality of my 360 is worse than the interior of a 90's French hatchback. But I could cope with that, if the engineering was actually carried out by someone with an proper qualification in the profession...

    /disc tray jams

    edit: In actual fact, there is one part of me who is hoping for a 'Red Ring of Death' malfunction (bought it a year ago in January), just because it'd give me a guilt-free green light to take to the thing with a hammer.

    /disc tray jams OPEN this time

    "FUCKING PIECE OF CRAP!!!!!"
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 14:38

  • jonsaan #60 5 years ago

    Blame the developer, not the consoles.

  • jonsaan #61 5 years ago

    @ somaticsense.

    I have just left 360 number 3 in recption for courier pick up. When I get it back I am seriously considering trading the whole shebang for a PS3.

    Seeing as the games are identical anyway ;)

    I might as well try out a PS3 and see if I can play for more than three months without having to call up a mystery call centre to get a badly repaired unit again.

  • SomaticSense #62 5 years ago

    @jonsaan

    Despite all that, I would never consider swapping the thing for a PS3, as I'm dead chuffed with the actual capabilites of the machine games-wise, and with the games available. It's just that I wish that the thing was built a damn sight better, especially considering it costs about £200 and up. Never do I feel I wasted my money though.

    /disc tray jams AGAIN!!

    *mutters under breath*
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 14:43

  • Moz #63 5 years ago

    @Darren, The frame rate issues are going to be more down to rushed conversions then anything.

    And yes Xenos has better filtering and AA, This is mainly down to it being able to do AA and HDR at the same time, where as the RSX can't .

    @lavalant, The main reason people could want a PS over 360 is that they prefer Sony's first party software.

    I have both system and must say that having internal WiFi and Power supplie is a big bonus, no extra wire or a brick of a power supply to find space for.

  • SeesThroughAll #64 5 years ago

    The main reason people could want a PS over 360 is that they prefer Sony's first party software.

    + 1 Moz

    Hardware discussions are pointless in the end of the day, it's all about the games :)

    Now when are they gonna release the next-gen Wipeout?

  • Moz #65 5 years ago

    SeesThroughAll, well Wipeout PS3 was announce at the same time as the next PSP version. A date hasn't been confirmed, but the PSP version is coming out in September . So we could see Wipeout PS3 this year or early next.

    But in the meen time there's always fatal inertia, which could be out as early as July.

  • SeesThroughAll #66 5 years ago

    The handheld and console version out at the same time? :\ I'll have to choose then?

  • ecureuil #67 5 years ago

    It really isn't, mainly because at the moment there's no need for 360 owners to defend their machine's capabilities!

    No-one needs to defend the PS3. Judging by the forum, most PS3 owners are pretty happy with the console, and bickering is at a minimum. Every time someone posts something that might relate to both consoles, you always get the Xbox fanboys sniping at the PS3 for no reason.

    You only have to look at the Ninja Gaiden Sigma article on the front page to see a list of people taking unnecessary shots at the PS3, yet again. And in this news item, despite it clearly saying that DMC4 has been designed to look the same on both consoles, you have people mouthing off about the PS3 again. I don't see any PS3 fanboys making remarks about the 360 here.

  • joeking #68 5 years ago

    Explanation:

    PlayStation is Liverpool. The former masters of the console 'league'. Xbox is Manchester United. It lived in The Scum's shadow for many years. But now that is the top dog of the two, its fans have grown cocky, releasing years of pent-up bitterness and envy, and taking every oppurtunity to gloat and mock the supporters of The Scum!

    See what I did, there? ;D

  • ecureuil #69 5 years ago

    So 360 owners are jealous they can't afford a PS3?

    I don't see any snide remarks from PS3 owners as regards to the 360, as most people either already have one, or are looking to get one in the future (like me). Most of the ROD jokes come from 360 owners, too.

    And the 360 is not top dog of anything, really. They still have a lot of work to do to catch Sony(PS2,3,P), let alone Nintendo.

  • RexRunti #70 5 years ago

    "I don't see any snide remarks from PS3 owners as regards to the 360"
    ...
    "And the 360 is not top dog of anything, really. They still have a lot of work to do to catch Sony(PS2,3,P), let alone Nintendo."

    Priceless.

  • Darren #71 5 years ago

    The 360 might have the edge over the PS3 and Wii for games (without a doubt) but the hardware quality is somewhat dubious to say the least. My launch 360 just died today after only 17 months so it's out of warranty unfortunately and this is my second Xbox console to do so as my original Xbox, bought in March 2002, died after just 10 days. I've never had any problems with consoles from SEGA, Nintendo or Sony though.

    Sorry to go slightly off topic there but I just wanted to get that off my chest... LOL

  • ecureuil #72 5 years ago

    "I don't see any snide remarks from PS3 owners as regards to the 360"
    ...
    "And the 360 is not top dog of anything, really. They still have a lot of work to do to catch Sony(PS2,3,P), let alone Nintendo."

    Priceless.

    Prove me wrong.

    It's not a snide remark, it's a fact.

    Snide remark = "360's always break, lolol" "Xbox 1.5" etc.
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 15:32

  • RexRunti #73 5 years ago

    Actually, I've had way more issues with my PS2 and DC then I've ever had with my 360

    /touches wood

    But to be honest this is really a non-story as good multiplatform games should have some slight differences, ala GTAIV and Soul Calibur 2.

    Edit: And XBox 1... just the role of the dice I guess.
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 15:35

  • SomaticSense #74 5 years ago

    "The 360 might have the edge over the PS3 and Wii for games (without a doubt) but the hardware quality is somewhat dubious to say the least. My launch 360 just died today after only 17 months so it's out of warranty unfortunately and this is my second Xbox console to do so as my original Xbox, bought in March 2002, died after just 10 days. I've never had any problems with consoles from SEGA, Nintendo or Sony though.

    Sorry to go slightly off topic there but I just wanted to get that off my chest... LOL     "

    It's just like the Rex said, it's just the roll of the dice. You were one of the lucky ones whose PS2 didn't break down.

    I've had no problems reliability-wise with any console, apart from the PS1, PS2, and PSP which all had some sort of hardware malfunction (I went through 2 each of the PS1 and PS2), and has lead to me refusing to pay that amount for a PS3 only to risk the same pattern occuring again.

    However, I had no problems with my launch Xbox whatsoever, and the only probs with the 360 so far has been the (infuriating) jamming disc tray, which I now refer to all the time as 'Bob Marley'.

    So everyone has had their own experiences, so stating your experience as absolute fact means jack shit. Just because your Xbox broke down, and your PS2 kept going doesn't mean the same happened to everyone else, and that it was norm. Because the opposite was true.
    The PS2's reliability problems were extremely well known, and a very serious issue which made it into the mainstream media. The 360's problems appear to be going the same way.
    Edited by 3 at 02/05/07 @ 16:09

  • joeking #75 5 years ago

    Tbh, I've had a reliability problem with every single expensive electronic product I've ever owned. The clickwheel on my iPod mini went kaput, my iPod video started freezing and crashing constantly, the laser in my original Xbox stopped working after about 3 years, the trackpad on my old laptop starting behaving erratically after about a year... I just know that my 360 is going to bugger up sooner or later. But it's not as if there hasn't already been a precedent in my life. Most of these gadgets seem to be kinda similarly flimsy imo.

  • ecureuil #76 5 years ago

    Do you live near a very large magnet, by any chance?

  • RexRunti #77 5 years ago

    @ecureuil

    A snide comment can be based on fact or not, but it's still a snide comment, e.g.

    £425 > £280

    That is about a strong a fact as you can get and it's still a snide comment. Also saying that MS are a long way behind Nintendo/Sony is not a fact, its subjective, so can't really proven false, or true for that matter, e.g.

    Xbox360 is better than PS3, prove me wrong; PS3 is better than 360, prove me wrong; God exists, prove me wrong; God doesn't exist, prove me wrong; your as big a fanboy as those you were having a go at in the 5th post of this thread, prove me wrong.

    Now I don't want this to turn into a slagging match, so I'll just leave it there.

  • joeking #78 5 years ago

    "Do you live near a very large magnet, by any chance?"

    I do. It's called 'Earth' apparently, or something! ;)

  • ecureuil #79 5 years ago

    @Rex

    No, I don't think "£425 > £280" is a snide comment. That's their RRP, I don't see a problem with it. And in terms of sales/marketshare, the 360 is quite a way behind. It's not my opinion that the DS has sold over 40 million units, but it would be my opinion if I said the DS was better than the PSP.

    @joe

    You live on the moon?

  • joeking #80 5 years ago

    The Earth's magnet is in its core I believe. So if "the moon" is the new name for the Earth's surface, then so be it.

  • RexRunti #81 5 years ago

    Except in terms of market share the 360 is way a head of the PS3 and Wii. Of course if your talking all platforms not just ones you can compare fairly, yes sales of PS1 + PS2 + PS3 + PSP > XBox + Xbox360, but then Windows is a gaming platform too so MS is seriously out in front.

  • reality_cheque #82 5 years ago

    Wow, the comments threads lately seem to be a "Who's Who" of people to ignore.

    *ignores all the fanboys and is left with about 3 comments to read*

  • Darren #83 5 years ago

    @SomaticSense - Before today I would have agreed with you but the Xbox 360 has quite a reputation for being unreliable anyway, far more than any other console I've owned, I doubt anyone but the most ardent fanboy could deny that. The launch machines, which mine was, are notorious for breaking down and it's not uncommon to read of people on their third or fourth machine.

    I believe (and I'm not stating this as fact by the way) that Microsoft rushed the 360 out so they could be first and beat Sony to the next-gen market and that's the reason we've had all these hardware issues and why many of the launch games were rushed/buggy/unfinished. Even now, I'm still reading reports of people buying new machines built well outside the launch period that are still faulty and it doesn't help that the new Elite has such reports as well. I personally think the Xbox 360 is a fantastic machine but the hardware quality is mediocre at best or Microsoft's QA department is a joke, one of the two!

  • ecureuil #84 5 years ago

    @Rex

    Fair points. Windows gives Microsoft a massive advantage. I was specifically talking about home consoles, but all of them can be taken in to account.

    How long before Wii overtakes the 360, though? I'm guessing it'll be in July, unless the Elite sells obscene amounts.

  • RexRunti #85 5 years ago

    @Darren

    Totally agree actually, but I don't think it should actually put people off getting a 360 as the ones that die generally go quite quickly, in which case just return it to the store and get it replaced for a brand new one. Oh and never buy extended warranties they are a complete waste of money.

  • FlamingCarrot #86 5 years ago

    The Wii is still a novelty box and people will grow tired of it. The PS3 won't flourish till it drops in price and has some decent games, so next year...
    I own PS3 + 360 and like them both on their own merits. EXCEPT the stupid paino black gloss plastic that catches dust like an old mans todger.

  • RexRunti #87 5 years ago

    @ecureuil

    Well the Wii stock shortages means they won't any time soon, and whether nintendo can maintain those sales for the significant future is by no means garanteed.

    Anyway I'm off home now so I'll leave it there.

  • Sid-Nice #88 5 years ago

    "DMC 4 same on both consoles" Aye, it will be shit on both consoles.

  • SeesThroughAll #89 5 years ago

    The Earth's magnet is in its core I believe. So if "the moon" is the new name for the Earth's surface, then so be it.

    No it's not. The Earth's magnetic field is caused by a flow of positively charged liquid metal, which does cross the core but is not contained in the core alone. This is best described as the "dynamo theory".

    Google is your friend.

  • TRUTH #90 5 years ago

    SUMMARY
    Now that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 specifications have been announced, it is possible to do a real world performance comparison of the two systems.

    There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

    * Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.
    * The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing
    power of the Cell.
    * Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance
    * The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power
    than the PS3 GPU.
    * Memory System Bandwidth
    * The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.

    CPU
    The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

    The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

    The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

    Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

    Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

    Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

    Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

    Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

    Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

    Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.

    Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult. Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

    GPU
    Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.

    Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.

    RSX GPU

    * 550 MHz
    * Independent vertex/pixel shaders
    * 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)
    * 300M transistors
    * 136 "shader operations" per clock

    The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.

    The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

    However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

    It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

    With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.

    The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

    The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

    If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

    For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

    Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.

    Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

    Bandwidth
    The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s...The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

    Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

    The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

    HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.


  • SeesThroughAll #91 5 years ago

    I see TRUTH continues spamming the comments section with his amazing Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V skills.

  • numptyboymatt #92 5 years ago

    I'm sure TRUTH's posts would be quite fascinating if I could ever be arsed to read them.

    edit - coz I cant spell for toffee!
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 18:23

  • Les #93 5 years ago

    I hate ports.

    Let's just all agree both 360 (aka xbox 1.5) and PS3 (aka ps2.5) suck. They didn't and won't deliver anything new gameplay-wise, just more pixels. It's sad, but it's true (no matter what garbage TRUTH can dig up and paste within the EG comments sections).

    If only publishers would stop creating PS2/PSP ports for Gamecube 2.0...

  • joeking #94 5 years ago

    @ SeesThroughAll

    I guess I stand corrected so! :)

  • JYM60 #95 5 years ago

    'It's the 360 fanboys that spout the most shit, tbh. '

    'It really isn't, mainly because at the moment there's no need for 360 owners to defend their machine's capabilities! '

    I think what he mean is that there are far more tards saying,

    "OMFG Gears of War BEST GAME EVER"
    "PS3 is a peice of shit"
    Jeez check the 3rd poster.
    There are deffinatly far less people on the PS side doing stuff like this and there are plenty of threads on the forum to back it up.

  • #96 5 years ago

    I don't really care about these tard-flamewars anymore.

    I've had my ps3 for over a month and I'm a happy camper. Worth absolutley every penny.

    It's an awsome machine in every way, for music, pictures, movies, and games.

  • TRUTH #97 5 years ago

    I just believe the PS3 has been hyped so much by Sony themselves, they have let a hole which PS3 must fill with games that simply are not possible on any ither machine - nothing has been able to this, and nothing for the future seems too!...Also people really don't look into it when they automatically think PS3 is best simply because it's by Sony and is the latest on the block (Though this was due to delays in parts for PS3). Credit is where it is due, and the 360 has so-far out done Sony's machine. I do have both and a Pioneer 50" plasma so i can compare everything from graphics to gameplay. And sorry to all Sony fans (I use to be one!), but PS3 has been a major disappointment so far.

  • JYM60 #98 5 years ago

    I just believe the PS3 has been hyped so much by Sony themselves, they have let a hole which PS3 must fill with games that simply are not possible on any ither machine - nothing has been able to this, and nothing for the future seems too!...Also people really don't look into it when they automatically think PS3 is best simply because it's by Sony and is the latest on the block (Though this was due to delays in parts for PS3). Credit is where it is due, and the 360 has so-far out done Sony's machine. I do have both and a Pioneer 50" plasma so i can compare everything from graphics to gameplay. And sorry to all Sony fans (I use to be one!), but PS3 has been a major disappointment so far.


    Also people really don't look into it when they automatically think PS3 is best simply because it's by Sony


    Could not speak more shite if you tried??

    You did try very hard though.

    D-
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 20:47

  • manic_mouse #99 5 years ago

    "I have both system and must say that having internal WiFi and Power supplie is a big bonus, no extra wire or a brick of a power supply to find space for."

    Shouldn't it really be about which has the best games? These things are minor, mostly cosmetic/invisible differences not "big bonuses".

    How does having an internal power-supply make the PS3 play games better? The PS3 is nice and all, but banging on about rubbish like this instead of what awesome games it has says something...

    EDIT: And I think the reason so many Xbox owners laugh at the PS3 in threads like this is because of how much Sony made fun of the 360 before the PS3 was released, and how much more powerful they said the PS3 was. To be honest I think they have every right to laugh at how the "Xbox 1.5" that "isn't next-gen" is producing games as good as and better than the "twice as powerful" PS3 that "isn't even in the same league".
    Edited by 1 at 02/05/07 @ 21:01

  • SeesThroughAll #100 5 years ago

    "And sorry to all Sony fans (I use to be one!), but PS3 has been a major disappointment so far."

    I'm glad you told everybody that... Now I know how I should feel... I'm glad I can't make my own mind by myself :D

  • smelly #101 5 years ago

    Come on people .. If people want to spend 500 quid on a console.. let them

    I dont understand all this "mine is better than yours" bullshit.

    It always comes from 360 owners too.. Prolly paranoid that they're going to be doomed to last place the way things are going..

  • JediMasterMalik #102 5 years ago

    Come on people .. If people want to spend 500 quid on a console.. let them

    How ironic coming from you.

  • DUFFKING #103 5 years ago

    Can we stop calling it next gen now? It's current gen now, in case you hadn't noticed.

  • pokeken #104 5 years ago

    that'll go down badly in Harrison and Kaz's arrogant, bullshitting throats....what great news!

  • JediMasterMalik #105 5 years ago

    Oh yeh, they'll be really pissed of. I'm sure they're slitting their wrists right now...

  • DrunKao #106 5 years ago

    Guff-Pipe - "Suppose a little but, but the extra cash for a more relaible machine and all the extras (if you want them) will make sense for a lot of people."

    Apparently it doesn't if you go by sales figures, HAHA... just kidding :D

  • SomaticSense #107 5 years ago

    @Darren

    @SomaticSense - Before today I would have agreed with you but the Xbox 360 has quite a reputation for being unreliable anyway, far more than any other console I've owned, I doubt anyone but the most ardent fanboy could deny that. The launch machines, which mine was, are notorious for breaking down and it's not uncommon to read of people on their third or fourth machine.


    I'm not disputing that it's unreliable, I said as much in my post. I'm actually dreading the time when mine packs up. It's just that people are using the unreliability of the 360 as one of the main reasons as to why the PS3 is better in the ridiculous fanboy arguments, when the fact of the matter is, Sony have hardly got a clean rep for that either, and who knows what problems the PS3 will have in 6 months to a years time.

    But yeah, stating that you had no problems with Sony hardware in the past and only had problems with MS stuff, doesn't make it the norm everywhere else. It just means you, like me and my Sony stuff, have had a bad roll of the dice when it comes to certain companies products.
    Edited by 1 at 03/05/07 @ 17:06

  • SeesThroughAll #108 5 years ago

    Shaka, don't fuel this crap any more. I already regret replying to the first troll (third poster).

  • TRUTH #109 5 years ago

    The problem is so-far every cross format (or most) game have played/looked better on 360...This may be due to the Cell, or could simply be the 360 is better at handling various programs.

    The point is will PS3 have to wait ages before anything shows the so called power of the 'Cell'. This could mean very few games that will be able to use it due to it's complex nature, and due to the cost and time required - could put many developers off. May be that the 360 is just better for game handling...with this year some really interesting games are hitting the 360: Mass Effect, Alan Wake, Bioshock, Fable 2 and i believe the next Splinter Cell is a exclusive for 360, thanks due the easy and flexible nature from software & hardware that was designed for gaming at 1st thought....360 still has not used it's triple core technology , yet it's a much user friendly machine for programmers. This means more games, bigger profits for game developers, more variety, and better multi format games, and able to convert PC games fairly easily.

    PS3 might have a great game every now then, but so-far the 360 seems to a variety of everything and often, inc some really great exclusive AAA titles this year.
    Edited by 3 at 03/05/07 @ 21:31

  • VMerken #110 5 years ago

    To get back on-topic:

    *sits down, puts on smart glasses, smokes pipe*

    I remember, back in the day that DMC4 was still PS3-exclusive, that the game's producer demonstrated his game to the press. It was shown running on a developer pc, so the framerate was a little tacky, but still. He then played for a bit and demonstrated the Devil Arm.

    "Look at that graphics effect", he exclaimed, "you can only do that on a PS3!"

    Or something along those lines. Either way, he was pretty confident about his statement. So everyone, look out for the Devil Arm effect - this confirmed not-game-critical detail is probably the one thing which will look different between the versions.

    *blows a few puffs of smoke*

    Seriously, I had expected more here. Another Capcom developer said a while ago that they would be using a cross-platform engine for their future products, but that they would then really tweak the game for each platform once the main code was outlaid. Sounded like a plan to me but now, apparently, there isn't much difference...

    Which leads me to two questions:

    * Is the developer cutting costs and foregoing the tweaking idea?
    * Or is there really no big difference between fully tweaked PS3 and Xbox 360 games?

    Pschyah.