In Theory: Is Xbox 360 3D Ready?

By Richard Leadbetter Published 15 August, 2010

Microsoft says "yes". Digital Foundry investigates.

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While Sony and the PlayStation 3 are doing most the pioneering work in establishing stereoscopic 3D gaming, Microsoft's public approach has been to ignore this new dimension in gameplay, instead concentrating its resources and marketing on its Kinect motion control system.

"We're a fully 3D-capable console today. We support 3D games that are in the market today," Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg told VG247.

"If you look at things like Avatar and the new Batman game, and some of the titles that were announced in 3D [at E3] like Crysis 2, they're coming to Xbox 360. There's no confusion that anyone looking for a 3D gaming experience will find those same experiences on the Xbox. We're also demoing here, behind closed doors, movies in 3D running on Xbox 360. The capability is there. The question is whether or not the consumer demand is there. That's the unanswered question. We're not a consumer electronics company that's trying to sell 3DTVs, so we have the benefit of waiting until the market responds. We're going to take probably more of a pull than a push approach."

However, behind the scenes, the platform holder is beginning to take 3D gaming seriously - something that will become very apparent within the next 12 months. Third party developers are already being briefed by Microsoft on the ways and means in which the now vintage console can be made to run with the new wave of 3DTVs. While Microsoft itself may be adopting Greenberg's "pull rather than push" approach, it is at least offering support to publishers looking to support 3DTVs.

Ubisoft has been at the forefront of 3D, is upbeat about the take-up of the displays and foresees that many of its major titles will support the system. The new Shaun White and Ghost Recon titles are set to include stereoscopic 3D support.

"I do believe that Avatar allowed us just a little bit of advantage in terms of experience with how this market will work," Ubisoft UK managing director Rob Cooper told MCV.

"We are working to offer the possibility of 3D on most of our upcoming triple-A titles as we'd like to ensure that we are there for those consumers that begin putting new 3D enabled televisions in their homes."

The question is, can the Xbox 360 meet the technical standard for stereoscopic 3D set down by the HDMI 1.4 protocols, and supported by the PlayStation 3?

Real 3D - as in proper, full-on HDMI 1.4 stereoscopic 3D in the 1280x1470 twin 720p framebuffer configuration - may well be a problem for the Xbox 360. Here's where things get complicated. In terms of the basic capabilities of the Xenos GPU, the resolution should in theory be a walk in the park. Probably the closest version of the 360's graphics architecture on PC is ATI/AMD's R520 (found in the X1x00 cards), capable of a maximum resolution of 2560x1600. Even its predecessor could process 2048x1536, at 75Hz, no less.

'In Theory: Is Xbox 360 3D Ready?' Screenshot ps3-1
'In Theory: Is Xbox 360 3D Ready?' Screenshot ps3-2

Two full 720p stereo 3D HDMI framebuffers, culled from the PlayStation 3 versions of Super Stardust HD and WipEout HD. Two images, one per eye, transmitted at 60Hz with an overall resolution of 1280x1470. It's the standard for 720p 3D on PS3. Doubts remain as to whether the 360 can use this exact 3D format.

However, Xenos is a bespoke part made for 360 only, with its own unique properties - the 10MB daughter die of eDRAM for starters. Not only that, but all output from the GPU is routed through the HANA video processor - the chip that converts the framebuffer into HDMI, component, and legacy standard def outputs. Connect up the 360 to a DVI monitor and you can see that HANA is a pretty useful piece of kit: it's able to support just about any single-link DVI resolution - even relatively obscure ones such as 1440x900.

However, notable by its absence is 1920x1200, the de facto standard top-end resolution for single-link DVI, and utilised by a large amount of 24" LCDs, and from several of our developer sources, we've learned there's still no support for it in the current revision of the upcoming Kinect dash, nor is there implementation of the HDMI 1.4 720p stereo 3D format when a 3DTV is attached.

Quite why it is missing is a bit of a puzzle: its omission suggests that HANA has set limitations to vertical frequency, which may preclude the 1280x1470 HDMI 1.4 set-up used by the PlayStation 3. And even if it can output the resolution, there's no guarantee that HANA would be able to offer HDMI 1.4 handshakes to the 3DTV. After all, the chip was designed years before the HDMI 1.4 standard was even being considered.

Our developer sources inform us that Microsoft is now accepting that 3D will form a part of the Xbox 360's future, and is recommending either side-by-side or top-bottom approaches to the visual make-up of the 3D framebuffer. The obvious conclusion is that the games we play will be operating at half-resolution, similar to the pre-alpha version of Killzone 3 seen at E3, with the image created from two 640x720 images.

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Comments (88) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • rodpad #1 2 years ago

    Interesting article. Thanks again DF.

  • Widge #2 2 years ago

    FUCK SONY AND THEIR 3D GIMMICKS

  • berryl227 #3 2 years ago

    DF thanks for a insightful article brilliantly explaining the potential of 3d on both systems.

    Widge insightful view into the inane ramblings of a fanboy

  • Raznilof #4 2 years ago

    Another insightful article, though, for this once, I think a little too much based on speculation. It's an interesting avenue to explore but it reads as if an initial idea of investigation was run into a few to many obstacles, resulting in an unfinished article.

    Point in case, a 1080p buffer would result in square unwanted pixels. Why are they unwanted? Are pixels on an LCD panel not also square? There are a few more assumptions (like different 3d techniques, why not explain them shortly?) like that that stand in the way of fully understanding the article. Perhaps that's why it feels unfinished, my lack of knowledge : )

    As said, it is really well written and researched as usual, you write great articles and it's far to easy for me to critique your work like this. And the article headline reads "in theory" which you answered the best you could, so thanks!

    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 09:55

  • woodnotes #5 2 years ago

    Even the BBC Micro is capable of outputting "side by side" 3D.

  • NotSoSlim #6 2 years ago

    Love the end bit about GT5...F1 in 3d next year could bring a whole new level despite what some people think. 3d is not going anywhere, Sony are getting a bad rep due to them pushing it now but only ignorant people cannot see almost every developer supporting it.

  • Bagpuss #7 2 years ago

    Of course, if we were in normal times, the move to 3D would have coincided with the launch of PS4 and a new Xbox....

    Consoles that would actually be powerful enough to do 3D justice in the first place....instead of this piece meal, make do and mend approach....

    But of course we are not in normal times, so Sony and M$ will continue to ass rape consumers with outdated technology known as the PS3 and 360 for at least the next 2-3yrs....

    So depressing..........

  • RevanEleven #8 2 years ago

    Can someone summarise in english please? my brain melted after "full-on HDMI 1.4 stereoscopic 3D in the 1280x1470 twin 720p framebuffer configurationer "

  • Nithron #9 2 years ago

    So in order to support 3D, we have to go back to SD?

  • Nephirion #10 2 years ago

    Normally this situation would not bother me but Microsoft are going to milk the exisiting technology all they can due to the huge investment needed to produce a new console. I don't believe that 3D TV will become cheap enough to be mainstream for a few years yet and by that time will the 360 really be around?

  • mathare92 #11 2 years ago

    GT5 in 3D... *drools*

  • hiruu #12 2 years ago

    ZzzzzzZzzzzz...like the "1080P" HD push...i's jsut another marketing ploy to get our $$$

  • StooMonster #13 2 years ago

    Richard, if the Xbox 360 is limited in its vertical refresh rate and can not follow Sony's methodology of 1280x1470 twin 720p framebuffer configuration, why is Xbox 360 limited to half-horizontal side-by-side 720p? (i.e. two 960x720 framebuffers with rectangluar pixels in 1280x720).

    Why can't Xbox 360 do full-horizontal side-by-side 720p? i.e. 2560x720p That's a perfectly acceptable HDMI 1.4 3D compliant format.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 11:37

  • Badassbab #14 2 years ago

    PS-2010- Married to Sony. Has sex with the s'O'ny doll he sleeps with every night. Changed position 7 times.

  • StooMonster #15 2 years ago

    Raznilof: Are pixels on an LCD panel not also square?

    Depends on how old the panel.

    If it's a modern 1920x1080 panel in a 16:9 format then yes, it it's an older panel that has 1366x768 in 16:9 then yes, but if say it has 1024x768 in 16:9 then no, the pixels are not square.

  • evilboo #16 2 years ago

    if you cross your eyes you can watch the first bit of the video in 3d without glasses sort of

  • rodpad #17 2 years ago

    "If it's a modern 1920x1080 panel in a 16:9 format then yes, it it's an older panel that has 1366x768 in 16:9 then yes, but if say it has 1024x768 in 16:9 then no, the pixels are not square."

    Can't believe those 42" 1024x768 16:9 Panasonic Plasmas that were touted as "HD". What Hi-Fi even touted them as the best HD screens in the world. Baffling.
    Edited by 2 at 15/08/10 @ 11:53

  • Centrifugal #18 2 years ago

    3D looks great, and definitely enhances a cinematic experience for me. I'm certain that it would do the same thing with games. However, unlike with a 3D movie, where you only sit for an hour or two, sometimes I like to game for hours at a time, and I can't envision myself being comfortable wearing the glasses for too long.

    It's not that I'm against 3D, because I think it's brilliant. I just dislike the way glasses are needed. Needless to say, I will definitely be buying the 3DS though.

  • NotSoSlim #19 2 years ago

    3D glasses are needed for now but we all know technology will develop ways of making them an option

  • orangpelupa #20 2 years ago

    im confused.
    Isn't Xbox 360 HDMI is limited to version 1.3?
    but yeah i dont know its upgradeable or not (ps3 HDMI is upgradeable)

    <strong>
    "Can someone summarise in english please? my brain melted after "full-on HDMI 1.4 stereoscopic 3D in the 1280x1470 twin 720p framebuffer configurationer ""</strong>

    sorry my bad english,

    in sumarry:

    1. both console theoretically can do 3D but with sacrifices.
    The common sacrifices can be:
    Resolution
    Frame rate

    2. For multiplat 3D game, as usual xbox will have a bit better image quality than PS3
    but in Exclusive games, the clever use of SPU power can make ps3 3d game look good.

    3. Xbox 360 is already supporting 3D. But not using standard protocol (ps3 use standart HDMI 1.4 protocol) CMIIW
    Edited by 2 at 15/08/10 @ 12:31

  • Xardan #21 2 years ago

    Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

  • paulf #22 2 years ago

    3d will only really take off when you don't have to wear glasses to view it, so in that sense I'd say nintendo are actually leading the way not sony

  • androidave #23 2 years ago

    I think they should have waited until the next gen for 3D. all this article really says is neither console is up to the job.

  • Stomp224 #24 2 years ago

    Hang on.... Am I missing something? Last I heard, MS were dismissing 3D. Or am I thinking of someone else?

    /is confused

  • androidave #25 2 years ago

    Also, I wear headphones 90% of the time when gaming.. there quite large and wearing glasses with them isn't going to be an option really..

  • Harmonica #26 2 years ago

    @ Xardan "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

    ^ +∞

    For film and television 3D is a fad that will be over very quickly and is already showing signs of waning.

    Games face a lot of the same pitfalls that those media face in terms of developing 2D and 3D alongside each other; if you develop entirely for 3D (which is a luxary afforded by few, mostly devs working on the newfangled Gameboy) then you're going to have to compromise the 2D experience, just the same as 3D films are rubbish in 2D. So since nobody can actually do that right now with any of the major platforms, 3D ends up getting sold short. It requires such a large and concerted investment on the part of the target market that it's overwhelmingly a big business venture rather than an artistic one. Which should be decried.

    That on top of the fact that with games we're used to 3D environments so technically shit popping out of the screen is not that amazing (apparently cinemagoers have a very short memory, too short to remember the last big push behind it), and that there's no real language for 3D games above on beyond what we've already got. Unlike films which are traditionally a flat image, thus 3D stands out more than it probably should. But at the end of the day, the language of 3D is little more sophisticated than finding more ways to throw things out of the screen at you, and a crutch for otherwise weak artists.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 12:49

  • Feanor #27 2 years ago

    Both these consoles aren't powerful enough to do 3D properly.

  • mss99 #28 2 years ago

    My 360 is one of the old 20Gb models, so no HDMI. Don't know if that will have any impact on 3D for the 360 for me in the future. Damned if I will buy another 360 just to get HDMI support though. However, it is a real pain as I don't get a picture on my Surround system from the 360 using either the video or composite cables so I have to connect the sound through the Surround box and the picture direct to the TV. That means everything is on one source on my TV bar my 360 which is think is pretty poor.

    Anyway whilst the article was interesting there isn't much information Eurogamer haven't reported before. Would have been nice to have more information on how both systems intend to support 3D movies. Something which right now I think the PS3 has a clear advantage in.

  • GamesConnoisseur #29 2 years ago

    Interesting article, obviously Sony had a very large vested interest to pull due to motivation of selling TVs, but that is to our benefit. Of interest to gamers is question of when the push becomes the runaway pulls that enable 3D to be the defacto standard, will it happen? Soon enough?

    No one knows for sure but I ll jump in fast at that particular moment and not so keen to part from my money before that!

  • higganos #30 2 years ago

    I'm blind in my right eye.

    That's me fucked then.




    PS_2010. Fud.

  • StooMonster #31 2 years ago

    orangpelupa: Isn't Xbox 360 HDMI is limited to version 1.3? but yeah i dont know its upgradeable or not (ps3 HDMI is upgradeable)

    360 is just as "upgradeable" as PS3 for HDMI ... so long as you can produce one single HDMI 1.4 mandatory format with your HDMI chipset then you can claim that you are HDMI 1.4 compatible. You do not have to support every HDMI 1.4 feature.

    Which is precisely what Sony have done with outputting 1280x1470 @ 60Hz with stereoscopic 720p frames top-and-bottom, they have not "upgraded" their HDMI 1.3 silicon to 1.4

    http://ww w.hdmi.org/press/press_release....

  • lucky_jim #32 2 years ago

    "MS 3D glasses - What were they thinking?"

    If you're talking about the image on the front page, then you've just made yourself look hilariously stupid. I expect everyone else here knows why.

    In any case, as plenty of people have pointed out, 3D will never be a mass market success while it requires glasses. Just not gonna happen.

  • StooMonster #33 2 years ago

    PS_2010: Sony 3D television - Wow! MS 3D television - X360 users will have to buy Sony

    Personally I find the Sony Bravia 3D a bit too flickery for my taste.

    Also, although Bravia brand has helped Sony get back in the flat-panel game after their disastrous and embarrassing exit from plasma they are better knows as "mass market" rather than "high quality" ... there are plenty of better displays available.

  • TheChieftian #34 2 years ago

    Is there no part of the HDMI 1.4 spec that allows 3d via alternate frames? That's what the tv's do with it anyway. Then the 360 would only have to do 720P 60fps, with every second frame for the other eye, just like the displays do.

  • harshahorizon #35 2 years ago

    Seriously........ isn't digital foundry have anything else to other than wasting valuable time on Jurassic age hardware.Only place xbox 360 now belong is national museum.How long when this piece of junk is going to hold us back ?

  • mattigan #36 2 years ago

    Wow, the SDF are really out in force today!

    Calm down boys, as ever, both consoles have their strengths and weaknesses. You pays your money, you makes your,choice.... etc...

  • Sunworship #37 2 years ago

    PS_2010's doll comes round to my place when he's out.

  • DoctorFouad #38 2 years ago

    "taken as a whole, the two systems are capable of remarkably similar results."

    Again LOL
    thats not true,

    1/ in some multiplatform games thats true, but in the majority of multiplatform games the xbox360 is capable of a LOT MORE than ps3 (4x anti aliasing vs 0 anti aliasing or blur effect, steady 30 fps vs a lot of slowdons, full 720p resolution vs sub HD...etc)

    2/ In exclusive games, it is clear that ps3 is capable of a lot more than xbox360 : Uncharted 2, God of War 3, GT5 prologue, Killzone...VS gears of war 2, Forza 3...)

    so Taken as a whole it is not true to say both systems are equally capable, I would rather say : programmed properly, the ps3 as a whole is more powerful than xbox 360.

    sigh

    Edit 1 :
    what is funny is that the writer just in the next paragraph says this : "Bearing in mind how many game engines on cross-platform titles run smoother on Xbox 360" already contradicting himself.

    Edit 2 :
    As for 3D, I join those whos say : 3D with Glasses is not practical. (especially for those who already wear glasses) I believe that sony solution for battery-Glasses is flawed, they are heavy and very incomfortable after 5 minutes of use...Until we have cinema like glasses (no battery) or even NO glasses at all, I am not interested in buying a 50 euros incomfortable glasses per user in my living room (I am sure a lot of consumers think like me LOL)
    Edited by 2 at 15/08/10 @ 15:39

  • Dizzy #39 2 years ago

    "That on top of the fact that with games we're used to 3D environments so technically shit popping out of the screen is not that amazing (apparently cinemagoers have a very short memory, too short to remember the last big push behind it)"

    3D comes around every 20-30 years. It will fail and come back in 20 years as no glasses TV. It will fail again and come back in 40 years as holographic TV and maybe it will not fail this time...
    Major studies are already pointing to the end of 3D Hollywood movies.

    Will it do something in gaming? Probably not. 3D gaming could work, but it needs to be a hell of a lot more interactive. Just 3D fake effects doesn't do anything really and wearing goggles is a killer for any wide scale consumer uptake. Seriously?? What suit believes this will work?

    Maybe VR, in the end, will make a difference if a killer app comes out (World of Warcraft 2020 maybe).

  • Raznilof #40 2 years ago

    Thanks for the reply StooM!

  • Spekingur #41 2 years ago

    It is a wise move by MS not pushing 3D. It means that they can let Sony spend the money to push (and see if it fails). If people seem to be grabbing 3D then they will make neccessary arrangements for their next console - at that time we will probably also have "low cost" non-3D glasses 3DTVs and screens.

    What MS should do is put research into holodecks. I think that is what every gamer would want. Shooter games would be... well, awesome. And tiring. And not with endless bunnyhopping :D

  • des #42 2 years ago

    yawn...3D is even worse gimmick than motion controls
    Lets put some retarded looking glasses on and play games in SD...and of course spend 1000+ euros on a decent TV and glasses...brilliant

  • knightmt #43 2 years ago

    Cannot wait to get a 3D tv just waiting for a good price point. I have seen that LG are going to offer a polarized version with cheaper glasses?

  • DAN.E.B #44 2 years ago

    Interesting read I have to say I was blown away by Super Star Dust in 3D it looked brilliant Wipe Out not so much.
    But both were alot better than that legend of tiger on 360 I could,nt seem to get that to look good at all.
    Havent tried AA yet as I already bought the original.
    The problem seems to be that my TV recognises my PS3 as a 3D compatible platform and then asks if I want to view the game in 3D but when I play the 360 it does,nt say anything so I use the 2D to 3D option on the TV settings and select the side by side option which does,nt seem to work any way near as well.
    not sure if its an HDMI 1.4 thing or a 360 software issue

    lol at the retards negging me for sharring my expeiriences with 3D gaming!

    Edited by 2 at 15/08/10 @ 16:51

  • Ryze #45 2 years ago

    '...the now vintage console...'

    /chortle

  • miiiguel #46 2 years ago

    The pseudo-3D movies (i.e.: Clash of Titans; Avatar the Last Airbender) are killing the litle buzz 3D got with Cameron's Avatar. I actually saw a customer demandig his money back saying that The Last Airbender 3D was bullshit (and he was right).

  • lockload #47 2 years ago

    Just imagine if they hadnt focused gt5 on 4d we could have more than a few trees on those sparse backgrounds

  • Retroid #48 2 years ago

    Astro-Creature: "I'm guessing that if Microsoft embraced 3D gaming, people would suddenly love 3D."

    Because it simply can't be that a lot of people don't see the point. Or think it's too expensive. Or don't like the glasses. Or the different techniques different manufacturers are using for their sets. Or want to upgrade so soon after buying large HDTVs.

    No, they must be fanboys of some kind. No other explanation is possible.

  • Retroid #49 2 years ago

    I've seen 3D stuff on monitors, TVs and cinema.

  • barkertron #50 2 years ago

    I think 3D is a bit of a marmite technology (in that it splits opinions, not that it's all brown and sticky).

    I've actually just got back from watching Toy Story in 3D on Imax. I've got to say I loved it; for me at least there's a real sense of immersion that goes beyond non-3D stuff and draws you in to the film a lot more. I'm aware this sounds like PR speak but for me it totally works.

    There are also a lot of people out there who couldn't care less, which is fair enough, especially while the consumer technology is undeniably very expensive. Personally I can't wait for the price to drop a bit and for some decent games to come out that use the tech - imagine the likes of Dead Space in 3D. You'd shit yourself.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #51 2 years ago

    My experience with 3D: it looks very good with animation pictures (and with Avatar), it's a scam with regular movies. Why? No idea... works better (only) with high contrast colours ?

  • Retroid #52 2 years ago

    I just think the display tech *and* the machines outputting it have a long way to go before it's worth it.

  • orangpelupa #53 2 years ago

    btw PC is since long time ago 3D ready (also CRT monitor is 3d ready... 120hz...) but seems not many game really support it.
    Just like when use nvidia 3d vision, not all game look good on 3D.

    only game that designed to be 3d from start that will give great immersion.

    microsoft say "yes" to 3d support,
    i hope they make some standard method for making "good 3d" in games. So it will minimalize game with "bad" 3d that like cutout board, or 3d that make my head dizzy.

  • Afro_Matt #54 2 years ago

    lol the picture for the article dosen't have anything to do with 3d glasses. fail

  • Badassbab #55 2 years ago

    I just hope we don't have the consoles lifespan expanded by another 5 years due to 3D gaming neither console are capable of really taking to the next level form a technical poit of view. Ageing hardware and all that.

  • vizzini #56 2 years ago

    Retroid: I just think the display tech *and* the machines outputting it have a long way to go before it's worth it.

    What based on the early alpha/betas/demos of stuff shown at E3 & on PSN?
    Don't you think this generation has to lay the ground for Full 3D for next gen? just like component video EDTV 576p/480p/720p did for HD TV last-gen.

    The PS3 is going to do 3D films at Full 1080p/7.1 uncompressed audio, and do 3D games at 720p quite easily. Is that not enough to wet the appetite for next-gen's ray-traced/photon traced Full 3D?

    The display technology of glasses free 3D is always going to be fighting the issue of picture quality and is something I firmly believe will be vapourware for household TVs.

    Normal TV has 1 image depth for all pixels viewed from an infinite number of positions.
    By comparison 3D has an infinite no of image pixel depths viewed from an infinite number of positions.

    Even if TV manufactures can solve the problem of viewing without glasses at a respectable price and screen size, they will still always trail with regards to picture quality of glasses/receiver based solutions at the viewers eyes. Using a set of glasses returns the problem to 1 viewpoint many depths problem, which is easier for improving picture quality.

    Saying glasses free 3D will produce the best image quality is like saying a highly faceted 3D model rendered with per-triangle shading will somehow produce better shading at all viewpoints than per-pixel shading; it can't, at best it can match per-pixel shading a specific viewpoints, but per-pixel shading will always be more accurate in general.

  • BadBoyBonner #57 2 years ago

    Anyone interested in getting a 3D TV might be interested in this deal at Comet [link url=http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/672998? cm_ven=AFFILIATEWINDOW&_$ja=tsid:8361|prd:47868&cm_ven=AFFIL IATEWINDOW&_$ja=tsid:8361|prd:47868&cm_mmc=AW-_-HotUKDeals-_ -links-_-generic
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    TV previously sold at £1199.99, total saving £519. Great package offer - Containing the Samsung LE40C750 40" 3D Ready LCD TV with 1080p and Freeview HD technologies plus 3 pairs (1 x pair in the box and 2 x pairs extra) of active 3D glasses and a Samsung 3D blu-ray player.

    Personally I think 40" is on the small side for a main TV for 3D to be very effective. IMO a DLP projector is probably the best way to go but non of the current crop are 1.4hdmi compatible which is a shame as you can now get the Acer h5360 for £495 delivered from Amazon.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 20:18

  • Verwandlung #58 2 years ago

    Marking people down who are saying that the hardware is 'aging' is rather silly because it obviously is old technology by now.

    http://ha rdware.teamxbox.com/articles/xb...
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 20:20

  • ziggy_played_guitar #59 2 years ago

    Even if TV manufactures can solve the problem of viewing without glasses at a respectable price and screen size, they will still always trail with regards to picture quality of glasses/receiver based solutions at the viewers eyes

    It's a bit like the DSLR cameras, everyone wants one, but then they stay at home because they are too unconfortable. I'm not sure the "best" techwise is actually the best lifestyle-wise.

  • bluetoothion #60 2 years ago

    Ok i might be getting ahead of my self but i think Sony starts proving that they envisioned a different machine in the beginning if anyone remembers the monstrous initial specs and abilities and started downgrading their machine slowly slowly just to leave competition breather....sort of.

    For everything Sony wanted MS is falling second and fail almost everytime.

    Tried to bash the Blu-Ray and put HD DVD EPIC FAIL
    Tried to bash the need for full HD and lack of HDMI .....needed to create new consoles with HDMI scraped around 11 million consoles plus they didn't make it HDMI to match Sony 1.4 capabilities. Another fail.
    and now trying to twick their console to make 3d while it seemed it was never in their initial plan to begin with. potencial fail

    But reality is tough

    what Sony wanted to do is irrelavant of what it takes to win the game and MS achieved that a lot better this time around
    for single platform holders even Sony makes a total turn around some time who ever picked XBOX360 had a solid 3 year head start on most games with better versions on 90 % of games and thats a good value for money.

  • jackdoe #61 2 years ago

    This was a pretty lame article. The comparisons consisted of comparing 3D multiplatform games, when those games are already known to have some performance issues in 2D on the PS3? Is that supposed to somehow show that the 360 is more capable of 3D than the PS3? Of course not. You'll need to go to the exclusives that utilize both consoles architectures to the max to see for certain. Unfortunately, MS isn't jumping on the bandwagon so we'll be limited to these multiplatform comparisons. Shame.

  • vizzini #62 2 years ago

    ziggy_played_guitar: It's a bit like the DSLR cameras, everyone wants one, but then they stay at home because they are too unconfortable. I'm not sure the "best" techwise is actually the best lifestyle-wise.

    I don't think the comparison of compact camera to DSLR is actually the same problem.

    3D glasses are more like the universal language translator modules in a sci-fi movie like Last Star fighter.
    You could have a beacon in the room track and translate(and echo cancel the source audio) for seamless multilingual communication, but it makes much more sense to have a small receiver module on each person that translates incoming voice to their native language.

    If 360 follows ps3 in the 3D gaming, it will be interesting if the extra 8ops per pixel required to (sort of) fix incorrect gamma on 360 texturing now becomes 16ops, or whether they'll all just have incorrect gamma now. This is a topic which DF has only looked at on Bayonetta's cut-sequences; which ironically were wrong on PS3, because the cut-sequences were iniitially done for the 360's incorrect gamma, and weren't redone for ps3.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/10 @ 21:21

  • man.the.king #63 2 years ago

    @Rich Leadbetter

    "While PS3 can draw upon the performance of the SPUs to make up the deficit..."

    PS3 can draw upon the performance of the SPUs to much, much MORE than just make up for any apparent deficit compared to the 360, if some of the best technological titles on Consoles this generation - Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, God Of War 3, LBP - are any indication.

    Am not sure why you - Rich - keep on harping about this APPARENT deficit when all of the existing evidence - as far as games go - points to the contrary.

  • man.the.king #64 2 years ago

    @Rich Leadbetter

    "there is the very possibility that as 3D gains traction on multi-platform games, the 360 may well end up providing the smoother 3D experience on these titles while PS3 leads from the front with its first party output"

    And there it is - your prediction for overall 3D performance, similar to your WISHFUL PREDICTION for FFXIII performance, which led to your apologetic tirade over why the 360 version was so poor.

    You should really join the comments thread here on EG - you would be so much at home with some of the specimens here.

    /shakes head in disgust/

  • Quixz #65 2 years ago

    So Microsoft have figured out a way to stream 3d movies via ZUNE, that's freaking cool if you ask me!

  • man.the.king #66 2 years ago

    @Retroid

    "Because it simply can't be that a lot of people don't see the point. Or think it's too expensive. Or don't like the glasses. Or the different techniques different manufacturers are using for their sets. Or want to upgrade so soon after buying large HDTVs.
    No, they must be fanboys of some kind. No other explanation is possible."

    Or - it may be that some of the most vitriolic responses on EG directing the largest amount of hate at Sony-sponsored 3D come from 360-only owners or people who play primarily on the 360.

    Not all people who REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE Sony 3D are non-fanboys.

    I'm not planning to upgrade my HDTV right now too (too many other areas to concentrate my finances on). That does not mean I behave as if Sony and 3D assassinated my family.

  • TAPNGO #67 2 years ago

    Sony PS3: 3D
    MS X360: But my tv is only 3 yrs. old

    Sony PS3: 1080p every game
    MS X360: really

    Sony PS3: rumble is last gen.
    MS X360: really

    Sony PS3: PlayStation 3 will offer the same backwards compatibility for PS2 software and the format will continue forever," Ken Kutaragi
    said back in 2003.
    MS X360: really

    Sony PS3: In 2006, Harrison said that combining Linux support with the PS3's other features essentially made the PC obsolete
    MS X360: hmm...

    Sony PS3: 2 HDMI Ports displaying on 2 screens at 1080p the same time.
    MS X360: WOW!!!!!!!


    Sony PS3: We'll spend a billion dollars on killzone and uncharted to prove our point.
    MS X360: point proven.

    [link url=ht tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_f_ahmAESI&feature
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_f_ahmAE...[/link]

    and by the way I love my ps3 and xbox.



    Edited by 4 at 16/08/10 @ 03:15

  • melissa2099 #68 2 years ago

    This is my first time i visit here. I found so many interesting stuff in your blog, especially its discussion. From the tons of comments on your articles, I guess I am not the only one having all the enjoyment here! Keep up the excellent work.

  • Lee_Morris #69 2 years ago

    Did DF just announce Arkham City is going to be in 3D on console or was that info already out there?

  • flanker22 #70 2 years ago

    WELCOME BACK D...FUCKING... F.... EXCELLENT article really divulge into the gritty details was getting quite bored with the interviews.

  • Harmonica #71 2 years ago

    Are there actually 3D tech fanboys around now negging people in these type threads? Wow.

  • Sunyavadin #72 2 years ago

    @miiiguel

    You don't go to see the last airbender for the 3D.

    You do it for the dialogue.

    “From the first day we discovered you were a bender...”
    "I could tell at once that you were a bender, and that you would realise your destiny."
    "I always knew you were a bender."
    "You were always destined to be a bender."

  • Spekingur #73 2 years ago

    @Umbriel: Couldn't you say it the other way as well? "The only reason to get a PS3 is for exclusives..."

    Frankly, I don't give a damn. There are good games on XBox360, there are good games on PS3, there are good games on PC. All of these have bad games. Touting PS3 as some kind of godsent console of the heavens is... well, it's naive and possibly a bit stupid. Same goes for XBox360. Seriously, get over your fanboy-ism.

  • Retroid #74 2 years ago

    vizzini: ""Retroid: I just think the display tech *and* the machines outputting it have a long way to go before it's worth it. "

    What based on the early alpha/betas/demos of stuff shown at E3 & on PSN?
    Don't you think this generation has to lay the ground for Full 3D for next gen? just like component video EDTV 576p/480p/720p did for HD TV last-gen."

    No, based on what the machines are being asked to do now and how far they've progressed from launch in 2005/6. Based on the fact that such tech hasn't been a roaring success on PC (where it's been around in various forms for a reasonable time), and based on all the competing standards different TV manufacturers are putting out on the market.

    Also: based on the cost of such display tech.

    Yes, prices will come down in time & standards are bound to be agreed across some manufacturers, but that's part of the reason I don't think it's ready *now*.

  • Retroid #75 2 years ago

    man.the.king: "Or - it may be that some of the most vitriolic responses on EG directing the largest amount of hate at Sony-sponsored 3D come from 360-only owners or people who play primarily on the 360."

    I only made that point because when the rush for 3D is criticised it's often jumped upon by some people as simple bias against Sony & its PS3. See the post on the previous page for a good example of that.

  • vizzini #76 2 years ago

    Retroid: Also: based on the cost of such display tech.

    Yes, prices will come down in time & standards are bound to be agreed across some manufacturers, but that's part of the reason I don't think it's ready *now*.

    This year’s new displays are no more expensive than the new displays in previous years. If anything the price of flagship screens has dropped in successive years.

    Compare RRP of last years Sony KDL-46X4500 (£3,699.01 Incl Vat) to this year’s 3D Ready Sony KDL-46HX903 (£2,499.99 Incl Vat) both are their Bravia Pro DSP flagship screens.

    And you do realize that 3D Ready and Full 3D are already ratified standards just like HD Ready and Full HD are, and part of this article is highlighting that the 360 might be unable to satisfy that criteria.

  • Retroid #77 2 years ago

    vizzini: "And you do realize that 3D Ready and Full 3D are already ratified standards just like HD Ready and Full HD are"

    Yes, I do. That's the protocol, and I'm very pleased that exists because it gets rid of a lot of the clarting about.

    I was talking about the different hardware methods various companies are using in their own 3DTV tech ie. passive versus active glasses, no glasses at all, etc.

  • TAPNGO #78 2 years ago

    @Umbriel
    you are partly right get a ps3 for exclusive games and a 360 or a pc for everything else, alot of us are not pc gamers.
    don't get upset or take it persnal. its the difference between gold and gold paint, what??

  • vizzini #79 2 years ago

    The hardware methods have already sorted themselves, 3D Ready now means Active shutter glasses for consumer TVs (according to 3D TV Wiki). And it is leading the way because it gives superior picture quality, Manufacturers such as Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Philips, Sony's latest products are all shutter glasses.

    Polarization is essentially suited to public use, such as cinemas & pubs where handing people £2 glasses is preferred to handing them +£45 bluetooth glasses.

    Anaglyph is a cheap way to show as an example, but now gone

    Autostereoscopy, beyond single viewer use in the 3DS is an nice idea, Hitachi's & Philip's R&D is all well and good but given the rate of advancement in shutter glasses screens, I don't foresee this R&D working for TVs; it might work for a cinema, where you can control the viewer's seating positions or handhelds, but I think it is an uphill battle it you have to choose one of 46 viewing angles in your lounge, and the 3D image won't get decoded at the eye, so not all cinematic effects will work well.

  • Retroid #80 2 years ago

    There are going to be improvements in the TV tech.
    Edited by 1 at 17/08/10 @ 10:16

  • DoctorFraud #81 2 years ago

    "Bayonetta near of God of War3? ... Ridiculous not even in your wildest dreams, GOW3 is simply stunning."

    If you compare the PS3 version of Bayonetta, sure.

    GOW3 = sometimes 30fps, mostly 20fps.

    Bayonetta = 60fps (on 360)

    Bayonetta kicks the shit out of GOW.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #82 2 years ago

    Is Xbox 3D really ready for some bloodclot jungle techno?

    IS XBOX 3D READY FOR SOME BLOOOOOODCLOOOT JUNGLE TECHNO?

  • Ryze #83 2 years ago

    @vizzini


    Unfortunately everyone seems to be selling their own incompatible shutter glasses. I don't mind them innovating, but there should be a standard mode that allows one set of glasses to work with another brand of TV.

    Otherwise how will a room full of people ever get to watch anything in 3D using this tech?

  • vizzini #84 2 years ago

    Ryze: Unfortunately everyone seems to be selling their own incompatible shutter glasses.

    These are almost unavoidable issues for any new technology of this type. But from what I've read Panasonic and Samsung glasses will work together, provided the other glasses are worn Dennis Taylor style.

    With upgradeable firmwares in 3D TVs I think the manufacturers will be able to add support for other glasses, but realise that this probably isn't such a big issue for early adopters.

    With Sony being the leading company with 40 Million capable 3D game console/Players in the market, I suspect manufacturers will be aligning themselves to inter-operate with Sony's 3D TV glasses technology in the next few months.

    3D Gaming is probably going to be the biggest push factor for buying 3D TVs for the next two to three years, and so all manufacturers will be wanting PS3 and PS3 3D gaming to succeed; helping to sell their new improved screens. If the 360 is only 3D capable in theory, but not 3D Ready by specification, then this is likely to be another chink in the 360's armour, going forward.

    Don't be surprised if more and more TV manufacturers don't start offering a free ps3 with new 3D TVs.

  • MegaCadet #85 2 years ago

    3D looks pretty cool, but I hardly doubt it will become standard this generation. We are in the HD generation yet alot of the popular high-budget console games don't even run in 720p HD.

  • Zelf1 #86 2 years ago

    I have had my new bravia 3d tv for a month now and im loving it, looking forward to more content coming out thats designed for 3d, i've got the motostorm demo, super stardust hd, wipeout hd and pain 3d pack and their all great. GT5, KZ3 AND GHOST RECON are going to be amazing.

  • Mar27w #87 1 year ago

    the man from delmonte,he say "yes"

  • man.the.king #88 1 year ago

    @Retroid

    "I only made that point because when the rush for 3D is criticised it's often jumped upon by some people as simple bias against Sony & its PS3"

    What are you talking about? All I see here is:
    a) Anybody criticizing Sony 3D without offering any rationale - Upped into the high heavens
    b) Anybody even cautiously optimistic about Sony 3D - Negged into oblivion (regardless of whether the poster offered any rationale or not)

    What does that tell you?

    Man - you may be a moderator here, but sometimes you just have blinkers on...