In Theory: Is this the Xbox 360 Slim?

By Richard Leadbetter Published 17 March, 2010

Elaborate fake or new console revision?

Leaked photos have emerged purporting to show a new, smaller revision of the Xbox 360 motherboard, provoking speculation that Microsoft is set to relaunch its console later in the year. Xbox 360 Slim any one?

Similar to the PS3 Slim leaks last year, the pictures emanate from an obscure Chinese message board, and the shots of the motherboard certainly look genuine, with enough of the original 360 components in view to suggest authenticity. They also display several new, original features, plus of course a smaller form factor.

By comparing parts common to the current model, it appears that this most fundamental of components is over a third smaller in size than the Jasper revision 360 board.

Two shots have been revealed so far. The first is a top-down view of the board itself, suggesting a smaller, squarer layout topped off with a conspicuously off-the-shelf Coolermaster fan. The second shot sees the leaker removing the cooling assembly to reveal what appears to be an integrated Xenon and Xenos CPU/GPU combination package, which ties in nicely with the so-called Valhalla revision of the 360 first mentioned a couple of years back and also believed to be based on a single combined processor set-up.

'In Theory: Is this the Xbox 360 Slim?' Screenshot 360slim1
'In Theory: Is this the Xbox 360 Slim?' Screenshot 360slim2

The shot to the left shows the full board, while the right pic reveals what appears to be an all-in-one CPU and GPU package underneath the pre-production cooler.

While the single heatspreader underneath the cooling assembly strongly suggests a unified design for the core hardware, the leaker hasn't had the courage to remove it completely and expose the dies below, which would settle the issue completely and would also allow us to ascertain whether Microsoft is using a 45nm or even smaller fabrication process for the unified chip.

Smaller parts mean a cooler, more power-efficient, cheaper-to-manufacture system and even the current, apparently reliable 360 is still running a 65nm process for both chips. The PS3 Slim in contrast runs at 45nm for the CPU and 65nm for the RSX, and a single package within the 360 would allow Microsoft to pursue an even more aggressive price-cutting strategy if it needed to do so.

What is interesting is that the board has doubled the number of SATA connections to two over on the top-left of the first picture. In current 360 hardware, only one is used for connecting up the internal DVD-ROM drive.

This could mean that Microsoft is planning support for internal drives, but bearing in mind the success of its Arcade SKU, it is unlikely that the firm would commit to HDD-integrated machines: laptop drives don't generally get cheaper, they just get bigger in terms of storage, and for Microsoft to surrender one of the factors behind its price advantage is unlikely. It's more probable that the drives will come in new Slim-friendly caddies.

Another curious change appears to be the complete omission of any mounting holes for the DVD drive, which clearly sits to the left of the fan. Either a variant of the existing DVD drive attaches to the case in a different way, or else an entirely different assembly is used. Assuming the costs work out, we could even be getting a thin, slot-loading drive similar to the PlayStation 3.

The location of the optical drive itself is a big improvement over the existing Xbox 360 design, which places the DVD-ROM directly above both CPU and GPU, further complicating the cooling of the hottest parts of the console. The cooling setup doesn't really tell us much. The Coolermaster fan would be way too large for a production console, plus you'll note that the fan itself is only secured in one place to the heatsink below.

There's nothing on the board that suggests any kind of onboard Natal, meaning that the new 360 still requires a decent array of USB ports, though it looks as though the MU readers have been cut down to just a single slot.

In part understandable but at the same time rather disappointing is the omission of any kind of Wi-Fi chipset on the motherboard, so it does seem as though extortionately expensive wireless internet dongles will remain the standard if the pics are valid.

On the bright side, however, the just-as-stupidly expensive audio dongle appears to be a thing of the past, with what looks very much like a Toslink SPDIF optical output directly above the fan to the left, next to what we can assume is the current Xbox 360 AV port, with HDMI output to the left of that.

Other than that, no surprises, though we can assume that the top-right socket is for the power supply, which will almost certainly remain external in contrast to the neat internal PSU in the PS3 Slim.

Comedy cooling fan aside, there's nothing here to suggest that this isn't the real deal. It's just too well-designed to be a fake and in a world where PS3 Slims turn up months in advance on in a Philippines marketplace, leaked pics surfacing on a Chinese forum are eminently plausible.

Even if it's not a 360 Slim, the radical change in form factor and mounting holes means that this revision of motherboard cannot physically fit inside the current shell and certainly not with the current DVD drive.

A 360 relaunch for Natal then? Microsoft has already issued its obligatory "we don't comment on rumour and speculation" line.

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (95) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Timbercottage #1 2 years ago

    Mini RROD anyone?

  • chaywa #2 2 years ago

    Obvious Coolermaster branded fan suggests otherwise...

  • Tallon4 #3 2 years ago

    Bit late isn't it? Maybe Natal is in?

  • lordofthedunce #4 2 years ago

    @sfp_noodle

    It's not pointless if MS makes the console cheaper to manufacture but maintains the current price. That's profit.

    Anyway, I reckon if this is real then it's got to be a rejig for Natal

  • crispyduckman #5 2 years ago

    I predict this is the "360go" - sans DVD drive.

  • harhol #6 2 years ago

    I would probably buy one. I still want to play Dead Rising dammit.

  • MiniAmin #7 2 years ago

    I suspected they'd release a Slim 360 to coincide with the launch of Natal.

    The PS3 slim is such a sleek machine. The current 360s look so 2005. A more stylish, quieter and less prone to RRO machine would make it a day one purchase for me.

  • Machiavellian #8 2 years ago

    sfp_noodle
    It might be pointless to the consumer but the point would be cost reduction thus increase profit for MS. Also if this system would be bundled with Natal, it could be priced aggressive enough to defray the cost of including Natal without having to raise the price of the console.

  • NightAntilli #9 2 years ago

    scorch: "This is already confirmed as a Clarkdale system. Nothing to do with Xbox 360.

    What is that "Microsoft Xbox 360" chip doing on the motherboard then? (left of the fan)

  • ybfelix #10 2 years ago

    Dude, I'm the one who first tipped Kotaku about this. A9VG is not "some obscure Chinese message board", at least not for the Chinese. It's like..well, a really large videogame forum. And dare I say it's got more page views than any of videogame forums in Europe.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 16:28

  • des #11 2 years ago

    "This is already confirmed as a Clarkdale system. Nothing to do with Xbox 360. "

    No it is not.That was just Kotaku stupidity...

  • firefly #12 2 years ago

    Revising some of the accessories sounds slightly worrying. Were the new model to replace the old one entirely it would mean that anybody who needs to replace their system for whatever reason (like my early 2006 model which for some insane reason still continues to function) would lose the content of their current HDD.

    Plus as others have said still no built in wi-fi, unsurprising really given how extortionate the adapter prices are. Still, a streamlined model with or without built in Natal kind of makes sense.

  • symmetry #13 2 years ago

    This must me the new 360 that goes with Natal, gotta be. Good timing for me, need a new 360 soon.

    Nice article btw.

  • harhol #14 2 years ago

    A9VG is not "some obscure Chinese message board", at least not for the Chinese. It's like..well, a really large videogame forum. And dare I say it's got more page views than any of videogame forums in Europe.

    But they write in funny squiggles!

  • Doctor_What #15 2 years ago

    Given that my 360 RRoD'd for the second time this morning, one month after the three year warranty expired, they can go screw themselves if they think I'm buying into their new hardware designs any time soon. I think I'll wait a few years before I decide to 'jump in' next time. Caveat emptor.

  • miiiguel #16 2 years ago

    would lose the content of their current HDD.

    No they would not. Content is transferable. Also, your account has a register of all things you purchased, it does not depend on your system.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 16:36

  • Retro_ #17 2 years ago

    @ybfelix "..........And dare I say it's got more page views than any of videogame forums in Europe. "

    No suprise there,what with there being 2 billion Chinese out there in the wild !

  • Moonprince #18 2 years ago

    Who would be stupid enough to buy this anyway. Let some other fools buy, report issue, await redesign then consider a purchase!

  • memeroot #19 2 years ago

    Transferable my arse - have you ever moved country?

  • ybfelix #20 2 years ago

    @harho: 你 想 学 中 文 的 话 我 可 以 教 你 啊 ;)

    @Retro_ : that's where I derived my confidence despite having no hard number:D
    Edited by 3 at 17/03/10 @ 17:03

  • Moonprince #21 2 years ago

    Goal Achieved! :D

    Should be an achievement for manipulating fools like this lol...

  • miiiguel #22 2 years ago

    Transferable my arse - have you ever moved country?

    Didn't understand that..., You can login with foreign accounts, same foreign accounts can access any content on the 360 where said content was bought.

  • photoboy #23 2 years ago

    I don't believe that's a memory card slot on the front, I think memory cards are being dropped altogether. The current 360's ring of lights and wireless radio for controllers are on a daughter board connected at right angles via a socket on the front of the mainboard. I think the same thing will be on the slim model, which would be the left connector at the bottom of this new board. It will need to be that far to the right because the DVD drive will likely be right above it.

    The connector to the right of that is likely two USB ports like the ones that current 360s have, but placed side by side to reduce the height of the system. Basically the same configuration as the PS3 Slim has its USB ports on the front.

  • patch #24 2 years ago

    I don't think I want a 360 hardware revision unless it's got blu-ray and wifi in and an internal hard drive? And bluetooth headsets? And rechargeable joypads? I see where you're going with this...

  • ocmerius #25 2 years ago

    @Doctor_What

    Just call MS, what I heard is that they aren't too picky. Just don't mention when you bought it if you don't have to. Worked for me, they didnt even ask and just picked it up and I got a 'new' one.

  • local_celebrity #26 2 years ago

    I'm sure Microsoft will be in touch with the Chinese authorities to get the leaker strung up and shot. But - on the plus side - it looks like we're getting a quieter Xbox. Yay!!!

  • Geordiemp #27 2 years ago

    The last xbox 360 with 65 nm or whatever the sizes were runs cool anyway, and is pretty quiet when doing an install to HD....the main noise now only coming from the DVD

    My new 14 inch laptop is 32 nm cpu and 40 nm GPU thats smaller than any slim and more powerful than Ps3/Xbox for games, so 40 nm components should be more readily available.

    A smaller box would like nicer though, but please MS think about big hard drives.

  • GamesConnoisseur #28 2 years ago

    BigOtter2009 my PS3 owning mate had his FAT PS3 died last Thursday in middle of FFXIII, so should he chuck in PS3 range entirely?! According to DoctorWhat maybe so but he is insteading going for repair route via consoledoctor when I thought safer to get Slim as much better.

    By much more margin x360 would need a new slim and MS should have done this much earlier, considering 1 year hear start but perhaps not as profit hungry as Sony with their expensive fat PS3 hardware?

  • B0MBJ4CK #29 2 years ago

    Sony unveils Move.

    Then this hits the netz.

    Microsoft have employed the services of Max Clifford methinks...

  • Skooch #30 2 years ago

    "Revising some of the accessories sounds slightly worrying. Were the new model to replace the old one entirely it would mean that anybody who needs to replace their system for whatever reason (like my early 2006 model which for some insane reason still continues to function) would lose the content of their current HDD."

    Huh? Why couldn't you transfer the contents of the HDD using the system they currently have, i.e. a data transfer cable? There is also a site now that allows you to re-license the content so you can use it on your new console offline.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #31 2 years ago

    @ Skooch: it's the system wars, silly. Or the Stockholm Syndrome, I'm not sure.

  • Bagpuss #32 2 years ago

    This is so depressing....

    Normally by the time 'slim' versions of any console appear, were about ready for a new generation of hardware...not this time.

    I'm so bored of this gen of consoles now.....and to think it will probably be at least 2-3 yrs before they appear......so depressing

  • urban #33 2 years ago

    lol it not.

  • patchbox360 #34 2 years ago

    gears 3, slim design, natal in built, no thunderous cooling fans and no red rings at £199 - sold

  • GaryHoward #35 2 years ago

    Hopefully the Slim won't be as noisy as the current production line of xbox 360 consoles we are lumbered with. I'm also hoping it will have a reduced failure rate even though I am on my fourth X360 console, it hasn't failed on me...yet. And when it does, I shall buy a Slim.

  • Lamb #36 2 years ago

    @ Bagpuss

    I too want to see the next gen Xbox rather than a slim with no wi-fi! They came out with the 360 a year or two too early but at least they pushed technology forward and gave us a couple of great games. At least with this slim strategy it will allow their suppliers to become more competitive and make smaller, more durable parts which should make that next gen xbox even more fantastic and affordable.

  • mbuff1 #37 2 years ago

    @ Doctor_What
    Shouldn't be a problem, bought my 360 in 2005, red ringed 3 times now (last time was 2 months ago) - registered it all online like previous times and price came up at £0! Plus they picked it up and sent it back it in 7 days which is a mass improvement on previous shipping times.

  • Badassbab #38 2 years ago

    Screw slim, they still need to work on the bloody fan noise and build quality. It's been steadily improving but next to te PS3 it's still loud and squeaky.

  • hiddenranbir #39 2 years ago

    I could believe no dvd drive. MS are really wanting to push the digital distribution through LIVE infrastructure. Movies, games etc.

    A console entirely dependant on LIVE, yeah makes sense to me.

  • Toothball #40 2 years ago

    One memory unit slot? That's a bit of a shame. When my Rock Band band comes over we have to spend a bunch of time monkeying around with profiles and save data with the two slots, but one will mean even more. I guess it's not a disaster, and I'd probably buy a smaller Xbox regardless. But I'll most likely moan about it a whole load.

  • FogHeart #41 2 years ago

    Maybe an upgrade to HDMI spec for 3D?

    edit: chuckling at my negs...I suggested it was something they might have done, not what I want them to do...I don't even have a 360! Shooting the messenger, eh?
    Edited by 2 at 18/03/10 @ 09:56

  • Dizzy #42 2 years ago

    If you are serious about online gaming you would never use WiFi.

  • Gouki #43 2 years ago

    Xenon Zephyr Falcon Opus Jasper Valhalla

  • warbo #44 2 years ago

    The Jasper systems appear to be 'RROD' proof, so they already solved that problem for new console.

    A slim should include WIFI, and a big enough HDD for more to take advantage of their games on demand service. Maybe a slot load DVD?

  • devilmyarse #45 2 years ago

    Personally, I've been waiting for an excuse to upgrade my non-HDMI 360 (a launch 20GB unit and no it has never RRoD) to an HDMI 360 with a bigger hard drive but currently just can't justify the expense. So this may just be enough to make me upgrade.

  • ronuds #46 2 years ago

    Is RRoD still that big of a problem where it should be mentioned in every other comment?

  • polar #47 2 years ago

    The most important improvement MS can make to the 360 is to make it quieter. I have an Elite and while it's the quietest of the 4 360 consoles I've owned, it's still too loud!

  • Doctor_What #48 2 years ago

    How curious that anyone who has mentioned MS's recent history for design failures has been neg'd on this thread. I don't think anyone's really said anything too controversial.

    @ ocmerius: MS had a record of my original purchase from the first time the machine RROD'd, so I can't lie about the date of purchase and they basically said 'tough luck - you'll have to pay £82 if you want us to fix it a second time'.

    @ GamesConnoisseur: I've also had my PS3 YLOD on me, but that had about eight times as much weekly use and lasted twice as long. From all reports, the YLOD is much less common than the RROD and you've got to admit that the scale of the problem is on nowhere near the same level. MS denied the issue existed for a long time and entirely mishandled the issue.

    Sony have been by no means ideal in the YLOD siutation, asking a fortune for their repairs too, but MS rushed a very flawed product to the market then denied there were any significant problems for a long time. I certainly hope that they won't do that again, but their treatment of me today hasn't impressed me with their commitment to lasting customer satisfaction. They would rather try to get people to buy their new models than face up to the fact that their existing bad designs are still failing for the same reasons and now they are slipping out of warranty too.

    I suspect that there are going to be a lot of unhappy MS customers over the next year as more and more people end up past the 3 year warranty but still faced with the RROD. MS will happily charge another £82 to these people to patch up (temporarily) their own mistakes, but I think they would rather that the customer went out and bought a new 360. Either way the customer loses.

    Like I say, Sony have been pretty bad on this issue too, but at least they started with a more reliable machine. I'm going to be very cautious with MS's hardware in the future after having been stung on this generation.

  • ronuds #49 2 years ago

    I don't hear much about 360s having RRoD lately. It's mostly PS3s these days, tbh.

  • Stop-gap #50 2 years ago

    Waaaaaa! Post isn't mindlessly kissing up to one of the worst made chunks of silicon and copper available for yet more money!
    How DARE you criticise its stunning track record and say bad things about it. I'm going to minus karma you to prove I'm right...
    Minus!
    Minus!
    Minus!
    Minus!
    Minus!
    Minus!
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 20:09

  • Quixz #51 2 years ago

    WANT!!

  • Skurmedel #52 2 years ago

    If they really want to innovate, they should water cool it and provide an option to use the heated water for hot beverages. They could then sell us refill sachets for different drinks, like tea or hot chocolate. Never would you have to bail out of a game just to get yourself a cup of Darjeeling. Just remember you saw it here first!

  • FireMonkey #53 2 years ago

    I wonder what question MS were asked to get the "we don't comment on rumour and speculation" reply? Depending on that the reply could be quite revealing in itself.

    Surely if this was nothing to do with Microsoft they would have rather said so rather than saying "we don't comment on rumour and speculation" as any rumors about a new 360 would quite possibly damage the sales of the current 360.

    Remember when people were speculating about a Blu-Ray player for 360? What did MS say? "As we’ve said before, Microsoft has no plans to introduce an Xbox 360 Blu-ray add-on" and when there were rumors of a new console in 2010 for Project Natal what did MS say? “I can tell you that we are not launching a new console in 2010”

    Sources:
    [link url=http://www.next-gen.biz/news/microsoft-again-deni es-360-blu-ray
    ]http://ww w.next-gen.biz/news/microsoft-a...[/link]
    [link url=http://www.destruct oid.com/microsoft-we-are-not-launching-a-new-console-in-2010 --136763.phtml
    ]http://ww w.destructoid.com/microsoft-we-...[/link]

    So they 'do' comment on false rumors and speculation if they are they feel they may damage them in any way and I believe a rumor of a new 360 could potentially damage the sales of the current 360. So why no definite no? I think the only answer is that they are working on a 360 Slim (even if this isn't it).

    Edit: Sources vanished for some reason, but they are back now.
    Edited by 2 at 17/03/10 @ 21:59

  • Skurmedel #54 2 years ago

    I never had a red ring of death, I had a well... graphics card death or something. Thing just displayed artifacts and died on me. It fell under the warranty somehow though.

  • MeBrains #55 2 years ago

    ronuds: i have been wondering about the same thing. it's went quiet. that can have two reasons:
    1) although there are still occurring, it just is not newsworthy anymore
    2) occurrences have gone down incredibly - that should make it a news story, but nobody wants to hear the positives...

    which? EG has an answer?

  • doulema #56 2 years ago

    As someone that knows from mobos a bit extra I can tell you that this is not relevant to a 360 slim version. Richard , you also say that this shows as if legit. How come? You spot and comment on the 2 "SATA" connectors yet you don't notice every other pins/connectors that make no sense if it were to be a 360 mobo.

    Start googling about it. Sooner or later you will get official and legit info about this being a joke. The mobo is real. Just nothing to do with a 360. Just my two cents.

  • kingnothing12 #57 2 years ago

    Why would people even speculate the no dvd/blu-ray drive? It would make all of the current x360 games redundant as you wouldn't be able to play the bloody things.

    A console with just a hdd is at least another 5 if not 10 years away.

  • kaya08 #58 2 years ago

    I think the HD installs sorted out most reliability issues with it. The ammount of heat the disc drive made was pretty crazy.
    My current one has been going for a good 2 years (ish?) with no problems. The 2 previous ones lasted 9 months and the first one was broken the day I got it.
    Same thing with most people I know who own one, they've all been through 2 or 3 but their current one has lasted a good while with no problems.

  • polaris70 #59 2 years ago

    Last revision from Microsoft this Gen. 2012 = integrated natal and new xbox

  • MeBrains #60 2 years ago

    btw: should this indeed be the new 360 motherboard, it _still_ does not look as well engineered as the original ps3 one or does it (even with EE-GS)

    edit: linky linky not worky worky
    Edited by 2 at 17/03/10 @ 22:10

  • FireMonkey #61 2 years ago

    @insane_cobra - "I suppose that's why it has the proprietary HANA chip found only on Xbox 360 motherboards? Or the south bridge chip with words "Microsoft XBOX 360" clearly written on it?"

    Well spotted!
    I guess that scraps the idea that this is a different board from a different system, but I suppose it could still be a fake.
    My money is it being a prototype of a new design. After all, they would have seen just how well Sony do by re-releasing the Playstation in different forms so why not jump on the bandwagon?

  • MeBrains #62 2 years ago

    cobra: i hope you are right, as much as I hope that consumer products will never again have the failure rate MS's original 2nd console had. for a company making that much, that was an utter disgrace.

    yet... IMHO: Would Sony handle it that way (MS has, ed)? Maybe it would - although I talked to a Sony Engineer informed about the infamous battery problem. He stated in a typically Japanese way that Sony was to blame, even though other companies used the batteries outside of specifications. It was just another take on the issue from a Japanese former manager of mine.

    Sony being one of the most western-oriented Japanese company, I might indeed doubt that Sony would give apologies like Toyoda did in front of US congress - would they have gone through the same console shit MS has. At the same time I doubt that MS would as well.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 22:33

  • vizzini #63 2 years ago

    Does putting an ATI/AMD GPU inside a IBM POWER chip actually happen?
    Even on laptops with Intel/AMD CPUs I thought it was always a respective integrated GPU solution; or a separate, discrete 3rd party GPU like the 360 currently does.

    If this was legitimate, I'd assume that they've abandoned the discrete GPU solution completely and are instead software simulating the Xenos on additional cores of a revised Xenon POWER 5 CPU, similar to how the Cell SDK works on PC workstations.

    But it doesn't seem very likely imo, as the redesign work is all bought in at extra cost; and most of the cost savings are made by the manufacturer, not the people who commission the work. Even emulating the Xenos on cores would cost in licensing fees to AMD, it doesn't sound like there is much money to be gained.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 00:39

  • Alienheart #64 2 years ago

    Could we all please stop talking about "integrated Natal"? Why on earth would it be integrated? Natal is supposed to sit either just below or just above your TV. It consists of multiple cameras and microphones - it needs to see the players. The X360 is built to be in both vertical and horizontal positions, and is frequently situated meters away from the TV. Hence it cannot be "built-in". Do you think Sony's Playstation Move will be built-in? Of course not, it's using the EyeToy camera. It's already known that MS will use the CPU for the Natal processing requirements, ditching the expensive hardware found in the early prototypes, so Natal becomes a fairly simple device, and undoubtedly connects using USB, since it's the only realistic option for connecting it to the old X360.

  • Kestana #65 2 years ago

    I don't know why the heck people are actually saying "the GPU is under here, the CPU is there, etc, etc".

    I recalled Microsoft before saying that the next Xbox 360 revision will integrate the CPU and GPU into a chip. That isn't entirely surprising given that it will reduce manufacturing costs (obviously, cause they'll have more of the wafer to turn into chips). Also, it will also make for a cooler system as it will only require one heatsink and fan to handle heat from a single source. Anyone else saying that a CPU and GPU into a single chip is "preposterous" should consider the presence of the mobile Core i3/5/7 CPUs. It has an integrated GPU on it.

  • busboy33 #66 2 years ago

    @MeBrains:

    "yet... IMHO: Would Sony handle it that way (MS has, ed)? Maybe it would -"

    A few million PS2 launch unit owners with burnt out drives would respectfully disagree.

  • uzivatel #67 2 years ago

    @MeBrains: probably both:
    2) new units seem to be much more reliable
    even if thats the case:
    1) we should hear about RRoD of the old units here and there

  • vizzini #68 2 years ago

    @insane_cobra
    "Yes, according to the old leak which predicted all Xbox 360 revisions to date, a unified CPU/GPU solution was on Microsoft's roadmap for years. There is likely no simulation going on. "

    I didn't see that, and what you said makes perfect business sense, but is there any products off hand that have done this so far? or is it just a leaked document of a proposal to do it?

  • Alestes #69 2 years ago

    This could make me buy a 360 if the price cut is right, even though there are very few 360 exclusives I want to play. Only Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia and Shadow Complex comes to mind.

  • Xerx3s #70 2 years ago

    "btw: should this indeed be the new 360 motherboard, it _still_ does not look as well engineered as the original ps3 one or does it (even with EE-GS)"

    Wait, did you just compare the level of engineering on the basis of aesthetics? Are you absolutely batshit mental?

  • altitude2k #71 2 years ago

    @FogHeart

    Current 360s with HDMI output are at version 1.2, and HDMI 1.4 is required for 3DTV. There are no hardware changes between the two, and can be updated via software.

  • FogHeart #72 2 years ago

    @altitude2k: Ah. Really? My assumption was based on <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/ articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-ps3-can-own-3d-gaming?page =2">this</a href> article by DF which says this:-

    "So, aside from the fact that it doesn't make TVs, what's to stop Microsoft following suit, perhaps by partnering with another major HDTV manufacturer? First up, there's a question of basic bandwidth. Xbox 360 runs with an HDMI 1.2 controller, with a 4.9Gbps link to the display. Good enough for 1080p60 with compressed surround sound, but that's the limit. On the other hand, all models of the PlayStation 3 feature HDMI 1.3, where bandwidth is effectively doubled to 10.2Gbps. While this is in place to support richer colour formats and lossless surround sound, there is nothing to stop Sony using the proprietary protocol Quaz51 suggests in order to beam over the depth map invaluable in creating a proper 3D effect."

    Earlier in the article: "If this theory holds water, Sony would be able to take a commanding position in a new technology where Microsoft would be unable to compete for years."

    So the bit where Microsoft can't compete "for years" actually means "can't compete for years unless they send down an update and then they'll be fine."?

    EDIT: again, the discussion about 3DTV is just about whether it's incorporated into this alleged new design. We're not making judgements on whether 3D is a good thing or not...

    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 10:23

  • vizzini #73 2 years ago

    @insane_cobra
    “For other examples of similar unified chips, check out Kestana's post. “

    I already had, have you got a link to Intel's website with an integrated GPU that isn't an intel? I couldn't find one.

    Even if Intel did do this, the POWER range is a completely different animal, and starts life as supercomputer CPU design, and is then scaled back for consumer computing, making space for an integrated 3rd party GPU still sounds less likely than simulating a GPU on more cores.

    As for Microsoft owning the Xenon design, they are likely to own the modifications to the IBM chip, but not the chip's design, which is used in many other products by IBM, and the STI (Sony Toshiba IBM) group's Cell processor, which powers new Toshiba TV's and the PS3.

    If there was a MAI group(Microsoft, ATI, IBM) then it would sound more likely, but I wasn't aware another group was formerd. Instead ATI's wiki says “ATI was contracted by Microsoft to create the graphics core (codenamed Xenos) for the Xbox 360.” which is a dedicated GPU chip.

  • vizzini #74 2 years ago

    Until you brought it back up, there was seven posts without it; insane_cobra, Kestana & I are discussing the plausibility of the article/picture, based on this comment in the article itself

    "what appears to be an integrated Xenon and Xenos CPU/GPU combination package"

    crossing a CPU with integrated 3rd party GPU isn't standard, if you know computer hardware and black box design principles for software or hardware engineering.

  • vizzini #75 2 years ago

    It wasn't a common building block designed for PS3, it was a building block in Apple G5 workstations many years earlier and IBM Power 970 systems (iirc).

    You could well be correct that because it has been planned there is an undisclosed group working on it.

    But the whole idea of low coupling high cohesion, modular build and black box design; define interface and functionality, who cares how it is implemented in the box, can only be successfully QA'd if the box is produced by one company or a (dedicated) cross company group who act as one company.

    And yes 2nd or 3rd party makes no difference.

  • Spydy #76 2 years ago

    We'll if it's not, MS will almost definately be working on something similar. I mean, look at the boost in sales Sony have had since the slim. It makes logical business sense.

  • Distributor #77 2 years ago

    Well guys....Microsoft will never include wifi. they prefer to sell it seperately to keep the pricing image decent and to give user choice. Another thing, if this really is the new Valhalla codename it will launch sometime in July as all Microsoft SKUs are basically on allocation at the moment. It will come most likely in a slim formfactor and 120gb still included. Why 120gb? well MS is releasing a 250gb as an accessory . Well what do i know.... ;)

  • canIdoyabombsforya #78 2 years ago

    I love the comments and excuses about wanting or needing to 'upgrade' to this model! Recession,what recession? ;)

    If the fat one was good enough for me 4 years ago, its good enough for me now.

  • mukki #79 2 years ago

    well lets hope this quieter than the one I have...
    if so then... I might trade up

  • Bravestinsane #80 2 years ago

    I don't believe this is real,

    Even if this is the fact you think this will reduce the noise of a console makes you delusional, the fan's don't make the damn noise it's the DVD drive, why do you think installing games makes it quiet.

    My flatmates PS3 is louder (fan wise) only when you put in a DVD into the xbox does it turn into a jet engine.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #81 2 years ago

    I agree with InsaneCobra, I don't know why the the integrated GPU/CPU issue is even being discussed. Its been on the cards for some time (rumored or otherwise) and is techinically possible. If it wasn't we would have read about it by now.

  • Skurmedel #82 2 years ago

    Bravestinsane: mine is a jet engine regardless, putting a CD in the drive makes it turn on its afterburner.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 16:20

  • Bravestinsane #83 2 years ago

    @Skurmedel

    Ill give you that, but the PS3 fans are still louder than the Xboxs in my experience but its disk drive is silent inaudible compared to the 360.

    Either way love how we get negged for stating facts. Got to love fan boys eh

  • Skurmedel #84 2 years ago

    Bravestinsane: Hehe, well I have a Slim so I wouldn't know. I just think the 360 is too loud.

    I tried to normalize your score, but alas, 'twasn't enough.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 17:42

  • vizzini #85 2 years ago

    @SpaceMidget75
    “I agree with InsaneCobra, I don't know why the the integrated GPU/CPU issue is even being discussed. Its been on the cards for some time (rumored or otherwise) and is techinically possible. If it wasn't we would have read about it by now. “

    I don't remember saying it was technically impossible, I merely highlighted the business and engineering reasons why it is less likely, and why software simulation on more cores is technically less trouble and probably much cheaper if they are indeed developing another revision.

  • seanthejackal #86 2 years ago

    Xbox 360 Slim, it only does nothing

  • mizcicz #87 2 years ago

    of course they will do it. natal slim bundle including a natal based party casual style tech demo game...if i can sell my old elite for some serious cash i´ll upgrade on slim and natal...maybe.

  • mizcicz #88 2 years ago

    also they plan to release a hd transfer cable that you can purchase without purchasing a hdd...so it´s pretty obvious that they are going for slim and do also expect many useres to "upgrade"

  • Ryltar #89 2 years ago

    Interesting! If this is true.. does anyone think it is linked with the following rumour:
    [link url=http://kotaku.com/5496600/is-usb-storage-in-the- xbox-360s-future
    ]http://ko taku.com/5496600/is-usb-storage...[/link]

    For obvious reasons this would fit in with the new 'slim' 360 ethos. Probably wont provide a hdd with it, instead - pop in any random USB thumb drive. Bobs your uncle. Perfect for casual natal use!

  • Distributor #90 2 years ago

    @Ryltar:
    The USB dash update is only to cater to the need of small removable storage, seeing as Microsoft no longer really sells their own pricy memory cards. Max is only 16GB for the USB storage so its not really substituting the HDD in anyway. Now you can just pop in your own usb-stick and move your data if thats your cup of tea.

    Also seeing as the Arcade console was mostly a disappointment for microsoft, all MS SKUs will have a harddrive in the not too distant future, July. Arcade = End of life --> New arcade SKU with a 20/60gb HDD, and a new Elite slim SKU 120GB (250??) HDD = JULY. 250GB stand alone HDD will be made public during next monday. But what do i know.... :)

  • Distributor #91 2 years ago

    Also Natal will not be integrated to the actual console itself. Just for the simple reason that Microsoft believes that consumers should have a choice and to keep the pricepoints tasty for the marketing people.
    It will be sold as a standalone piece of hardware and ofcourse come bundled with the console for christmas. But what do i know... :)

  • Ryltar #92 2 years ago

    @Distributor:
    Fair point, it would make sense for them to have a hdd. But the thing is - if this rumoured slim360 is true then they will probably redesign the hdd caddy as well. I assume that the new 360 case would be smaller (perhaps even a slightly different shape?!), so it could prove problematic to use current 360 hard drives. Who knows though! Either way, a more power efficient console can only be a good thing! *Hopes it is real*

  • doulema #93 2 years ago

    @Distributor
    "Also seeing as the Arcade console was mostly a disappointment for microsoft, all MS SKUs will have a harddrive in the not too distant future, July. Arcade = End of life --> New arcade SKU with a 20/60gb HDD, and a new Elite slim SKU 120GB (250??) HDD = JULY. 250GB stand alone HDD will be made public during next monday. But what do i know.... :) "

    I do wonder what you do know myself since the Arcade SKU sold like hotcakes when it was released...

  • penhalion #94 2 years ago

    Didn't we already know there was new hardware in time for Natal?

    I thought it was supposed to be a given, especially as the 360 isn't due for replacement for another few years.

  • busboy33 #95 2 years ago

    @Distributor:

    "Max is only 16GB for the USB storage so its not really substituting the HDD in anyway."

    Well, I'm using a launch 20gig drive, of which MS has partitioned off 7 gig. So stripped dead empty, my 360 HDD has a capacity of 13 gig.

    With all due respect, 16 (or 32) gig is a HELL of an improvement, even moreso because I don't actually have to purchase anything (have plenty of USB storage about). Is it a best-case scenario? Absolutely not . . . but this certainly could act as an effective replacement (or addition) for a HDD for Arcade users or 20 gig-ers like me.

  • monkfishjoe #96 2 years ago

    @ mizcicz

    You can get the transfer cable anyway. You just have to contact Microsoft support and they post it out to you for free(or at least they did about a year ago when I asked for one).