PS3: Hacked

By Richard Leadbetter Published 26 January, 2010

Digital Foundry on the first true assault on PS3 security.

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News over the weekend that iPhone hacker George Hotz has "hacked the PS3" has been met with shock, surprise and incredulity. Sony's console is undisputedly the most secure games machine ever made, yet Hotz claims to have achieved a full hack in just five weeks. PS3's security fail is generating incredible interest both inside and outside of the games industry, to the point where an interview he gave to the BBC became the most popular news story on the site last night.

However, despite the level of publicity, it remains unclear what the ramifications of the hack actually are: whether homebrew coding can actually be enabled, whether the deliberately hobbled implementation of Linux can be improved and - crucially - whether Hotz's work will open the door to piracy. It is interesting to note that despite the many claims, right now there has been no "hello world" homebrew code executed that typically demonstrates that the hacker actually has full control over the system.

What Hotz (hacker alias: Geohot) claims to have achieved is clearly important though. Posts on his blog put it blankly, revealing that he has "read/write access to the entire system memory, and HV level access to the processor. In other words, I have hacked the PS3".

In older systems, like the PSP, reverse-engineering code contained within that memory map was enough to find the decryption keys to game security and system software updates, and so the concepts of ISO loaders and custom firmware emerged.

"Basically, I used hardware to open a small hole and then used software to make the hole the size of the system to get full read/write access," Hotz told The Register. "Right now, although the system is broken, I have great power. I can make the system do whatever I want."

The HV in question is the so-called Hypervisor - low-level code that no-one outside of IBM and Sony should have access to. It controls access to the hardware and monitors the operating system running on it. It's also a key component of the security of both PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. In theory, during run-time it can detect hacker attacks on the system - for example, the TIFF image exploits that have brought down some firmware revisions of the PSP. These typically worked by overrunning memory buffers, allowing hackers to implant code in memory where it really shouldn't be, where it would then be executed. The implementation of the Hypervisor makes such attacks almost certain to fail.

Hotz reckons that his control over the Hypervisor is so complete that when it attempts to run code designed to secure the system, he can simply stop the call from ever happening. More than that, he can create his own calls designed to access the system at the very lowest levels. He claims to have created two new calls so far, one to read from any point in system memory (Peek) and the other to write (Poke). As the code injection is happening at pretty much the lowest level, the only way Sony can effectively defeat it is to redesign the hardware - although firmware updates can seek to circumvent whatever brand of code he chooses to inject into the system.

Making matters difficult is the fact that Sony and IBM's security protocols were created to anticipate a worst-case scenario, and assumed that at some point someone like Geohot would gain access in this way. So even more layers of security were added to the design.

First up there's the matter of the all-important decryption keys. The PS3 has eight SPUs circling its PowerPC core. One of those is disabled (to improve yields in fabricating the expensive CELL chip - more "faulty" ones can be used if the defective element of the chip is disabled). Another SPU handles security, processing encrypted code, leaving six purely for game developer usage. While the hack gives access to the entire system memory, the all-important decryption keys are held entirely in the SPU and can't be read by Hotz's new Hypervisor calls.

The other security element is the so-called root key within the CELL itself. It's the master key to everything the PS3 processes at the very lowest level, and according to publicly available IBM documentation, it is never copied into main RAM, again making its retrieval challenging. While there is no evidence that Hotz has this, his BBC interview does make for alarming reading for Sony, particularly when he talks about publishing "details of the console's 'root key', a master code that once known would make it easier for others to decipher and hack other security features on the console".

Once the root key is available, it's essentially game over for the system's security for all-time, but it's here that some of the claims being made for the hack don't really add up. PSP has been compromised on many levels again and again, but its root key apparently remains unknown. The BBC report also quotes Hotz as saying that the hack opens up the PS3 to allow all models to run PS2 software: unless the original Graphics Synthesizer chip from the old console is in there, or a software emulator exists, this is almost certainly not the case. While elements of the story don't add up, it is clear that what Geohot has achieved is significant, leaving many commentators to wonder what happens next.

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Comments (105) 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • alan_stealth #1 2 years ago

    Ha. fuck you sony.

  • mingster #2 2 years ago

    Its not a complete hack ... its the beginninngs of one but as such so far is unusable.
    Its a bit premature to announce the PS3 is haxxored coz it isn't fully yet.
    Its actually amazing it hasn't been done by now but so far its tsill just hanging on.

  • Roland_D11 #3 2 years ago

    It is impressive that it took this long to achieve this, Sony did a really good job securing the PS3.

    Considering this I cannot understand why the design of the PSP was so off regarding security.

  • gjgjg #4 2 years ago

    ouch, i guess a large percent of people will be interested in this just to play ps2 titles they already own rather than the usual pirated games...
    based on the slow responce of MS to hacking i can imagine SCE will be swifter and harsher. Also as they are in a more delicate position in general

  • GreyBeard #5 2 years ago

    Mingster is right, this is just a start.

    Best analogy I've read is that what Hotz has done is like getting past the guards outside of a bank, but has still got the secure vault to crack.

  • Vasenor #6 2 years ago

    If it does get cracked I'd find it interesting what happens to the sales numbers for PS3 games. Generally platforms have been cracked so quickly that doing a before and after comparison was basically impossible.

    Then again what is likely to happen is that any poor sales performance on a game which doesn't quite cut it would be blamed on Piracy.

  • GundamJehutyKai #7 2 years ago

    if the hack becomes software only and allows me to circumvent the region locking on old PS1 and PS2 games, then i'll be interested.

    That being said, I doubt this hack will be fully realised for a while...

  • mingster #8 2 years ago

    Yeah its interesting that even though there is no piracy on the Ps3 that a multiplatform title still sells as many if not more on the 360.
    It sort of means that piracy isn't that big a factor for low sales.
    There really should be an article about this as its the only system that can't blame poor sales on piracy. (at the moment)

  • Zomoniac #9 2 years ago

    Sometimes I think I'm quite good with these computer thingies.

    Then I read this story and realise I don't have a clue. What a very clever chap.

  • Roland_D11 #10 2 years ago

    @mingster

    I think, although piracy is possible on the 360, a lot of people don't do it. For one it is harder to do than on the PSP or the PC. And there is always the danger to get your console banned from Xbox Live.

  • Widge #11 2 years ago

    An interesting question would be "does piracy drive greater hardware sales?" from the perspective of "I will buy the 'free games' machine"?

  • Murton #12 2 years ago

    +1 to Greybeard, though I'd probably say he's still to reach the vault yet, he's in the foyer thinking up his next move, sizing up the next pair of guards standing inside the bank.

    From the sounds of it there's so many layers of security to the system that piracy may indeed be impossible, we'll have to wait on further developments, though it is interesting that he mentions the Slim. The hack must be rooted in either running Linux software or in the hardware of the Linux enabling chip that was omitted from the Slim version. I certainly don't believe that all non-slim PS3 can be made backwards compatible via a hack, unless he's alluding some homebrew software emulator. It's all very interesting stuff, but I think it's a long way off from being applicable as yet.

  • M_of_the_sys #13 2 years ago

    "An interesting question would be "does piracy drive greater hardware sales?" from the perspective of "I will buy the 'free games' machine"?"

    Ooooh. You're starting up the debate now. Increasing hardware sales at the expense of software sales.

  • makeamazing #14 2 years ago

    To be honest i would sue the guy... when interviewed and asked about piracy, the guy just basically said "Not my problem, dont want anything to do with these people"... wants to hack things and tell people how to do it, but not take the responsibilty of his actions... he KNOWS that it will be used for piracy.

  • andijames #15 2 years ago

    If anything this article makes you realise what a fine job they did on securing the PS3 in comparison towards the PSP and the PS1 / PS2 of old days. These days it is much harder to hack due to firmware updates etc but from a security point of view it looks like they posted guards on every possible entrance to use the analogy from earlier.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 12:48

  • Roland_D11 #16 2 years ago

    @Widge

    I think, the hardware sales will increase if it is easy to play pirated games on it. Look at the number of units the PSP has sold, about 50 Million units, if I recall correctly. But the games for the PSP do not sell at all.

    But this does not help Sony, because the software sales bring in the money, not the hardware itself.

  • Jonny5Alive7 #17 2 years ago

    I don't think hacking the consoles is a big a deal as it was for the PS1 & PS2. Mainly because the demand for online gaming is very high these days and you can't take a hacked console online without possible enforced patches that could detect your console is hacked. The obvious example is all the people who got banned from Xbox Live just before MW2. If a game doesn't have many online facilities then those could possible suffer though.

  • gimp999 #18 2 years ago

    Waste of time, the PS3 exclusive games are so large from the Blu-Ray disc, if those games average 30-40GB where are you going to keep them. A few games on the hard drive and you'll run out of space, that's if they can tweak the game to run off the hard drive. If not getting a Blu-ray burner and blank discs aren't going to be cheap.

    Sony will probably just buy this guy out and make sure he doesn't release it.

  • Erebu #19 2 years ago

    "This protects Hotz from legal action on the part of Sony and allows him to present the hack itself as the key to making PlayStation 3 an open platform."

    No it does not:

    "....Yet the Copyright Act's protection of computer software goes well beyond the question of whether you've copied anything. In fact, you don't need to copy any code at all to run afoul of U.S. copyright law. The anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA, 17 U.S.C. 1201, prohibits the circumvention of any technological measures that control access to any part of the work. It also prevents the distribution of software that enables circumvention of an access control..."

    [link url=http://www.gamasutra.com/view/n ews/26845/Analysis_Reverse_Engineering_and_You.php
    ]http://ww w.gamasutra.com/view/news/26845...[/link]

  • jonsaan #20 2 years ago

    The question remains why bother? Surely this guys time could be better utilised doing something else?

  • makeamazing #21 2 years ago

    I think with hackers its a badge of honour, the guy has been on the BBC website, saying how he hacked the iphone etc etc... he probably thinks its cool

  • JahB #22 2 years ago

    The question remains why bother? Surely this guys time could be better utilised doing something else?

    he stands to make very large amounts of money if he can pull of a full "successful" hack and then sell this to mod-chip manufacturers. but personally, i hope he gets hit by a bus before it comes to this.

  • crazyhorse174 #23 2 years ago

    @Roland_D11: Not that I'm condoning piracy or hacking systems, but the 360 is a lot easier to do than the PSP. Its surprisingly easy to brick your PSP when flashing it - the 360 is much easier as its only the DVD drive that you need to flash. If you bugger it up, you (usually) have the option to go back and reflash it, or you can buy another drive. Once a PSP is bricked, it (again usually) unfixable.

    As for this story - even if the PS3 was completely hacked, it would still be difficult for people to download a lot of the games because of the amount of data thats stored on the BluRay discs. Its also still quite expensive for blank BluRays and a BluRay burner isnt exactly cheap at the moment.

    I think, for a little while longer anyway, the PS3 is still safe...

  • Mister_G #24 2 years ago

    Games cost £1,000,000's to produce now-a-days. Money lost to priracy will affect the quality and quantity of future titles.

    I think any PS3 hack will probably involve dismantling the ps3 and lots of soldering, I wouldn't risk it. If I can't afford a game I'd just wait a month and buy a cheap 2nd hand copy.

  • crazyhorse174 #25 2 years ago

    I think any PS3 hack will probably involve dismantling the ps3 and lots of soldering, I wouldn't risk it. If I can't afford a game I'd just wait a month and buy a cheap 2nd hand copy.

    Better watch - some people around here think that buying 2nd hand is as bad as piracy these days...
    Edited by 2 at 26/01/10 @ 13:49

  • Zomoniac #26 2 years ago

    Better watch - some people around here think that buting 2nd hand is as bad as piracy these days...

    Given that second hand sales across eBay, game stores and the like tend to be new price minus £2, if that (sometimes more than new), if industry success is a concern then there's no good reason to buy 2nd hand really. Morally of course it's not as bad as piracy, but it is ultimately damaging to the industry.

  • Roland_D11 #27 2 years ago

    @crazyhorse174

    Yes, that was true that it was easy to brick a PSP. Nowadays it has become as simple as changing the mode of your battery with a cheap tool to unbrick / flash the thing.

    On 360 there still is the fear of being banned and ironically the Rrod-problem is helping MS, too. If your console breaks you can't get it replaced if you tinkered with it.

  • dr_zoidthrob #28 2 years ago

    Ahhh... Peek & Poke... takes me right back to the Spectrum days

  • crazyhorse174 #29 2 years ago

    Ahhh... Peek & Poke... takes me right back to the Spectrum days

    lol was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading the article!

  • IronGiant #30 2 years ago

    "Given that second hand sales across eBay, game stores and the like tend to be new price minus £2, if that (sometimes more than new), if industry success is a concern then there's no good reason to buy 2nd hand really. Morally of course it's not as bad as piracy, but it is ultimately damaging to the industry."

    I can't agree with that statement.. when people sell a game they've completed they more often than not put that money toward buying another game. Or they will trade that game in against another game, so another purchase. If someone bought Gears Of War as an example for £9 second hand and enjoyed it then there's every chance they would have bought Gears Of War 2 as soon as it came out.

    Buying second hand games has happened since gaming began and the games industry is still here going strong. Yes some devs have gone to the wall but that's due to the spiralling costs of game development and sometimes a lack of quality or bad decisions when deciding what game to make, see Haze as a perfect example.

  • Crispo1981 #31 2 years ago

    ho ho ho . . . always just a matter of time, gotta love the úber geeks out there!

    I couldn't even make a game run on my C64 most've time!

  • lukaz #32 2 years ago

    @Erebu
    The USA are trying hard but not every country copied their strange laws.

  • Zebula77 #33 2 years ago

    Quite honestly, I don't really care about this. At least not in terms of wanting to download games for free. I like owning them and packaging and all that. I usually sell or trade games I'm tired of anyways.

  • woodyrulesok #34 2 years ago

    @ dr_zoidthrob
    I remember typing out pokes from magazines, goodtimes.
    My mate had the multiface on his zx +2, I'd never seen anything like it before. amazing.

  • malexous #35 2 years ago

    @Erebu

    If that applies here, why don't Apple, Nintendo, etc. start suing?

    "wants to hack things and tell people how to do it, but not take the responsibilty of his actions"

    You mean take the responsibilty of other people's actions? Hacking does not equal piracy.

  • Skurmedel #36 2 years ago

    makeamazing: it is cool.

  • rickimalone #37 2 years ago

    Interesting but at the end of the day it is a real threat to the continued sustainability of an industry I have held close to my heart since I was a child.

    Buying pre-owned games is OK. Blatent theft of software is a CRIME and morally wrong, it should also be resisted by true gaming fans world wode.

  • Widge #38 2 years ago

    There has never been a pure software PS2 simulator in any PS3

  • LiamK #39 2 years ago

    "You mean like, say, for example... oh I don't know... the software emulation the other PS3 models already have? "

    This appears to be something that you have made up out of magical fairy dust.

  • F3nNec #40 2 years ago

    "Right now, although the system is broken, I have great power. I can make the system do whatever I want."
    do a barrel roll then! xDDD

  • jambo74 #41 2 years ago

    Crack open the Blue Ray copier, Daddy's home.

  • Lamb #42 2 years ago

    So you modify your system with some files you found on the internet. How do you know especially on a system like a video games console that when you are making a purchase online your password and personal information isn't going back to that specific site?

  • M_of_the_sys #43 2 years ago

    They had better hope that doesnt happen as it's a worst-case scenario for Sony: losing money on the sale of the console and gaining none back from software sales.

    I completely agree. Their only approach would be to mirror MS and ban accounts.

  • sonmi451 #44 2 years ago

    it all sounds very dramatic, but ultimately isn't really. Just some lonely guy who needs love.

  • crazyhorse174 #45 2 years ago

    it all sounds very dramatic, but ultimately isn't really. Just some lonely guy who needs love.

    More like some guy who Sony should really give a job to...

  • M_of_the_sys #46 2 years ago

    More like some guy who Sony should really give a job to...

    Or Microsoft. ;)

  • fknetwork #47 2 years ago

    I had a flashed 360 which got banned during the mass bannings late last year, I was very silly and the ban did make me see how stupid I had been (although I admit it shouldn't have taken a ban for me to realise this), developers deserve money from the games they make,

    Although I have been there and done that so to speak I would NEVER recommend flashing/chipping consoles to anyone and I sure as hell won't be getting into it ever again, I learned my lesson the hard way but at least it made me see sense!

    I snapped and chucked all my copied games and I'm now a happy 360 owner with a proper 360 which has never been opened (and never will) and a small selection of games I bought from the store, now that I have a smaller selection of games I have actually bought I spend a lot longer playing and enjoying them!


    All i'm trying to say is support the games industry whenever you can!

  • Tormeh #48 2 years ago

    @crazyhorse174

    I agree totally. If I was Sony this is the guy I would want consultation from when designing security on the PS4.

  • Erebu #49 2 years ago

    @ lukaz

    I would like to see how you would act if your IP was pirated and your hard work went down the drain.

    @ malexous

    And who should they exactly sue?
    Nintendo does everything possible against the R4:
    [link url=http://www.google.com/search?cl ient=safari&rls=en&q=r4+arrested&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    ]http://ww w.google.com/search?client=safa...[/link]
    Microsoft bans hacked consoles and pirated games.
    I won't deny, there is a specific symbiosis between hackers and manufacturers,
    but if it gets out of control manufacturers will act and take off their gloves.
    Remember DarkAlex? Where is he now?
    He left the stage because it became a little bit too hot.
    Not every hacker enjoys the media circus like Geohot.
    For gods sake, there are even pictures of him on the net...
    Hacking does not equal piracy, but it leads to piracy and Geohot is opening the way to it.

  • Erebu #50 2 years ago

    "More like some guy who Sony should really give a job to..."

    True, after raping their system and possibly damaging them finacially they should reward him :-/

  • toy_brain #51 2 years ago

    Potentially interesting if the homebrew scene takes off. Looking at the PSP, it may have suffered massively from piracy in terms of game sales, but also that piracy got Sony to up their game - keep improving the firmware, and bring some of those homebrew benefits to legit users in some form.
    Homebrew had games on the memory stick - now PSP games are DLC for regular users.
    Homebrew had document readers - now the PSP has the comic reader.

    The PS3 is a different beast for sure, and its more prominent 'always online' nature makes it easyer for Sony to scan and verify all machines connecting to PSN as legit. I know a lot of people who hacked their 360's, only to ditch them later on and buy another non-hacked one because loosing Live! access was too big a loss even when getting £40 games for nothing. (I also know a few people who have un-hacked their PSP's, but errr.. thats another story).
    Anyway, if some brave soul can come up with a fully working software-only PS2 emulator, then it will put pressure on Sony to provide one of their own, if only to stop users hacking their systems for it.
    But I strongly doubt that thing exists. I mean, Sony only just about has the PSP emulated!

  • malexous #52 2 years ago

    @Erebu

    Apple could start with Geohot.

    Nintendo could start with bushing. They could probably find him at the next 24C3 and if they want to know what he looks like they could take a peek at Youtube.

  • Alkeno #53 2 years ago

    [link url=http://en.wi kipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz
    ]http://en.wi kipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz
    [/link]

    The guy is 20 years old, he looks like he never used a comb... yet he is a genius, he hacked one of the most secure hardware platforms ever. He is just doing plain old hacking: looking for security holes, gaining control of the device. Guys like him drive computer security forward.

    Of course, the hack could lead to piracy, but he is on a different level, he won't be doing the piracy himself. You wouldn't blame the inventor of the knife for other people's stabbings, would you?

    Any big company should aspire to hire people like him, but it ain't easy... Once someone is used to the challenge of beating somebody else's security, it's hard for him to switch sides and finding pleasure in securing systems. Appealing the dark side is.

  • Puppaz #54 2 years ago

    Finally! I will soon be able to harness the power of the PS3 to play nethack without the need for ubuntu.
    Joy and such.

  • busboy33 #55 2 years ago

    @makeamazing:

    You can't sue him for that. Reverse engineering is legal. Publicly stating what he has done is legal. You're right that everybody knows this will directly lead to piracy . . . but technically he isn't responsible for that. If I publish a book explaining how combination locks work and discussing their flaws, the fact that almost certainly somebody will use that knowledge to illegally open a lock doesn't make me liable.
    The theory is to favor the progression of knowledge for all people rather than protect the individual. That's why patents work the way they do: you can have exclusive rights to the product of your genius . . . but you have to disclose to everybody exactly how it works so that when your timed window expires everybody else can build off of that. Its better for everybody if knowledge builds off of knowledge, rather than having everybody have to re-invent the wheel.

    Not saying that's the right or wrong set of rules . . . but it is the way things stand now.

  • dfish #56 2 years ago

    @alkeno
    he would be driving security forward if he provided details of the hack to Sony. Instead he is withholding information incase they put a block on him.
    I'm all for open platforms but they should be made/broken open when the system is at the end of its lifecycle. That way the industry doesn't get hit by piracy, Everyone eventually gets an open system no harm done.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 19:58

  • Alkeno #57 2 years ago

    I get your point, dfish, this all lyes on a gray area. He could publish details now, allowing Sony to increase their defenses... but it goes against his own interest (he has hacked the system, but is still unable to do anything useful with it). As he said, he still has a lot of work to do and publishing that information would only make it harder for him.

    Anyway, I doubt the guys at IBM or Sony don't know how the hack is done (if they don't, they are now working at 200% to find out and are within hours or days of discovering it). I don't believe this guy is so good that he has found a way to go in that nobody at IBM or Sony (the designers of the system) can think of. It's likely that they even knew that weakness from the very beginning and just were praying to Good God that nobody discovered...
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/10 @ 20:30

  • jjolley #58 2 years ago

    I don't see this as important at all. Interesting, but completely irrelevant for the consumer. It's not a software hack, it'll never be one either because of there encryption scheme, it's just for bragging rights. Yes, clever, but pointless. People won't even bother trying it, imagine downloading 40 GB games? Most people don't have bandwidth for this.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #59 2 years ago

    "Interesting but at the end of the day it is a real threat to the continued sustainability of an industry I have held close to my heart since I was a child. "

    NO IT FUCKING ISN'T YOU STUPID HALFWITTED FUCKING CUNT.

    Every games platform ever made since 1982 has been massively subject to piracy. Tell me - compared to 1982, is the industry in 2010:

    (a) dangerously unsustainable?

    or

    (b) growing bigger every single year, generating more money every single year, making more profit every single year?

    Do the fucking maths, you hopelessly stupid fucking cockwit. And here's some help.

    DS and Wii: easy to pirate. Sales of hardware and software: huge. Nintendo's profits: off the scale.

    PS3: impossible to pirate. Sales of hardware and software: from massive 1st place in the previous generation to distant last place this generation. Sony's profits: down the toilet.

    Jesus fucking Christ, it's not difficult.

  • dfish #60 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    calm down angry man
    The fact the industry has continued to grow in spite of piracy is due to the fact gaming is an industry in its infancy compared to other mediums and is in the growth phase. It is enjoying a STUNTED growth. It is also in no small part due to the efforts of legislation and law enforcement that the problem has been minimised.
    To illustrate this point look at countries in the third world where piracy taken to its unabated logical conclusion has completely destroyed the market for genuine software. How many copies of windows do you think MS sells in Pakistan? yet i bet everyone with a computer will be running it. MS survives off sales to the first world because here it can guarantee its products stand a chance.

    To answer your further point about system/software sales: piracy tends to ravage the "core" market, it takes people who are fairly savvy to acquire or modify a console for piracy. In other words look at the sort of DS games in the chart: Casual crap, the sort parents buy for their tweenage children, the market for hardcore titles has collapsed. GTA China Town is a perfect example of a widely played game that tanked at retail.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #61 2 years ago

    "In other words look at the sort of DS games in the chart: Casual crap, the sort parents buy for their tweenage children, the market for hardcore titles has collapsed. GTA China Town is a perfect example of a widely played game that tanked at retail."

    An excellent point, if not for the fact that you have absolutely no fucking idea whether it was "widely played" or not. Where are these statistics published?

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #62 2 years ago

    "piracy tends to ravage the "core" market"

    What, like the poor struggling 360, you mean?

  • ChadSexington #63 2 years ago

    I doubt the usefulness of his efforts if it doesn't work with PS3 Slims (leads me to believe the software exploit begins in the 'install other OS' option not present in Slims), which make up a good proportion of PS3 consoles.

    Also, I like that he claims he doesn't support piracy, yet is going to post on his blog about how to hack a PS3, so you can pirate games. If he didn't support piracy and was doing it for his own enjoyment he wouldn't be posting the details.

    A hacked PS3 won't be able to do anything you can't already do on a PC, so what 'fun' does he intend other people to have with the console?

  • dfish #64 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    "An excellent point, if not for the fact that you have absolutely no fucking idea whether it was "widely played" or not. Where are these statistics published?"

    Pirates dont tend to put their hand up do they reverend;) Fortunately all we have to go on is torrent statistics. Oh Sorry! how stupid of me they were only downloading a backup right?
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 00:01

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #65 2 years ago

    "It is enjoying a STUNTED growth."

    Presumably the reason the DS and Wii have been the fastest-selling consoles in history, despite being the easiest-to-pirate formats for 20 years. Still, I'm sure you're right - without piracy, consumers would suddenly have found billions of extra pounds in their pockets to spend.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #66 2 years ago

    "Fortunately all we have to go on is torrent statistics."

    Ah, righty-ho. You can furnish us with those, can you?

  • dfish #67 2 years ago

    "stunted" growth refers to software sales; where did i mention hardware? I was talking about software piracy not hardware piracy. Isn't it strange how the biggest selling most pirated console enjoys a much smaller percentage share of the software market than its hardware share size?

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #68 2 years ago

    ""stunted" growth refers to software sales"

    Then maybe you should have said so.

    "Isn't it strange how the biggest selling most pirated console enjoys a much smaller percentage share of the software market than its hardware share size? "

    Not necessarily, not by a long chalk. What specific figures are you basing that claim on, for a start?

  • barnettbeans #69 2 years ago

    Maybe sony should employ him or IBM hes clearly a genius if he can single handedly crack an incredibly secure system. If he were to release the 'Root' Sony would be in even more trouble than they currently are. They would have to charge for PSN to secure the online element of gaming and stabilise thier platform like Microsoft have over the last 5 years.

    Clearly he's a criminal and anti gaming supporter, but maybe Sony can take not and improve their service so some good can come of this.

  • ChadSexington #70 2 years ago

    I saw a man who looked a bit like Stuart Campbell (i.e. stupid hair) on the bus once. I had to fight the urge to throw my faeces at him.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #71 2 years ago

    "I saw a man who looked a bit like Stuart Campbell (i.e. stupid hair) on the bus once. I had to fight the urge to throw my faeces at him."

    Dude, you really shouldn't still be shitting on the bus at your age.

  • ChadSexington #72 2 years ago

    No, I carry a small ziplock bag of my poo around with me at all times in case I see you one day.

  • dfish #73 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    Its not my job to collect stats for you the facts are out there. It is not unknown for developers to complain torrent downloads for their games exceed unit sales. Rest assured if i did have Chinatown wars download figures to hand you would be duly embarrassed. Its a crying shame that we'll probably never see a ds exclusive GTA title again (10/10 on eurogamer) because of piracy,

  • influenceuk #74 2 years ago

    old news again from Eurogamer! This was on Engadget last week! Come-on guys keep up

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #75 2 years ago

    "Its not my job to collect stats for you the facts are out there"

    In other words, you've just made up a load of unsupported bullshit off the top of your head. Next please.

  • ChadSexington #76 2 years ago

    I approve of piracy as long as the people doing it are appropriately garbed -- eye patches, peg legs, parrots etc. If it's sweaty obese teens in a small bedroom in Slough, I don't want to know.

  • Soul_man #77 2 years ago

    The 2nd generation PS3 model has software-only PS2 emulation. There is no technical reason why it shouldn't work on newer models as well.

    http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation...

  • dfish #78 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    if it is your contention that unit sales of Chinatown wars exceeded download numbers then i'd wager my reputation you are wrong.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 00:47

  • ChadSexington #79 2 years ago

    The second generation PS3s featured part-software emulation -- the PS2 GPU was removed, but not the CPU. Subsequent models removed the CPU too, so have no backwards compatibility.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #80 2 years ago

    "if it is your contention that unit sales of Chinatown wars exceeded download numbers then i'd wager my reputation you are wrong. "

    I never said anything remotely close to that, because unlike you, when I don't have the first clue what the relevant numbers are I don't start making up bullshit claims about them and stating them as facts.

  • Murton #81 2 years ago

    @barnettbeans: why would Sony need to charge for the PSN just because some guy has cracked it? They just need to build a verification check into the firmware updates and lock down the PSN login to only be compatible with the latest firmware. That way hacked consoles could never go online, much the same as the MS LIVE bans.

    Besides, it's a waste of time talking about pirated games on the PS3 while the Blu-Ray drive remains secure, sure we have a kid who's broken into the very base level of the PS3's hardware, but there's a long way to go before he'll be able to do anything useful with it and even longer before anyone successfully adapts his work for the purposes of committing software piracy.

  • dfish #82 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    i thought you wouldnt be able to cash the cheques your mouth writes. It suits you not to bother presenting any figures either since your argument thrives on ignorance and denial of common sense. the less known about the damage piracy causes the less damage to the cause of piracy. isnt that right shipmate
    Edited by 2 at 27/01/10 @ 01:32

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #83 2 years ago

    "i thought you wouldnt be able to cash the cheques your mouth writes... It suits you not to bother presenting any figures either since your argument thrives on ignorance and denial of common sense."

    I'm sorry, I'm confused. Was I the one who started quoting a load of totally made-up "facts" as basis for his argument, and then panicking and having a big strop when someone asked me to back them up? I was really quite sure that was you.

  • man.the.king #84 2 years ago

    @Roland_D11

    "Considering this I cannot understand why the design of the PSP was so off regarding security. "

    Or maybe it was because of the PSP that Sony possibly acted "once bitten, twice shy"?

  • dfish #85 2 years ago

    @rev stuart campbell
    piracy can make a game like GTA Chinatown wars unviable. That to me is what is meant by damage to the industry. A product of uk culture will not be given a second chance to shine. You portray a world in which piracy has no impact, well it does. You are calling me out for not producing figures but you know full well it is not in your interest these figures are known since they will counter your argument. Hence you are afraid to the take the bet. I am only making known what is common sense while you are taking the easy defence of denial. It is no better the argument. The assertion software development is impacted by torrent downloads are not "made up" facts but widely held industry opinion. Unless pirates are honest and put their hand up every time they download a game illegally we will never know the full figures but honesty is not a criminal trait.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 02:35

  • 3william56 #86 2 years ago

    I wonder which of Geohotz or Rev Stuart Campbell has had the less contact with girls in their lives?

    The iPhone hack was a (relatively) good thing in general, as it was virtually all aimed at ridiculous restrictions Apple placed on the phone to needlessly force folks into spending money (like the Google Voice fiasco) and dictate what programmes could be run on your own machine. This, on the other hand, is just c*ck waving vandalism. There's nothing PS3 users are losing out on, except the ability to steal folks hard work (please, no-one trot out the "backup your games" argument - it's bullsh*t and always has been) and cheat at online games.

    If it's the technical challenge he's after, then by all means show a "Hello World" then STFU. Publishing codes and methods, so that others can "join the fun", just shows he's being an ar$e and happy to f**k up people for his own sh*ts and giggles.

    Very smart guy, but a tw@t.

  • bad09 #87 2 years ago

    "There's nothing PS3 users are losing out on, except the ability to steal folks hard work (please, no-one trot out the "backup your games" argument - it's bullsh*t and always has been) and cheat at online games. "

    Oh come on! PS2 B/C? Saving your games to HDD? Homebrew? Old emulators?

    A hacked PS3 could work wonders without touching pirating games, just like a hacked PSP did. Good luck to this guy, if it gives me a better product like hacking the PSP did I'm all for it.

  • Beek4257 #88 2 years ago

    "Tell me - compared to 1982, is the industry in 2010:

    (a) dangerously unsustainable?

    or

    (b) growing bigger every single year, generating more money every single year, making more profit every single year?"

    OK, I'll have a go mr. Campbell.
    I think it's none of the above.
    It's not (a) because an industry that's been around for decades now can hardly be qualified as unsustainable, let alone dangerously so.
    It's not (b) because of p.e. this and this.

    Am I right? Am I?


    Edited by 2 at 27/01/10 @ 10:22

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #89 2 years ago

    "piracy can make a game like GTA Chinatown wars unviable."

    It can? You've got figures to back that up, of course? You know how much GTACW cost to develop for the DS, and how much money it made? Well heavens above, Deirdre, don't keep us in suspense - let's hear them.

    "You portray a world in which piracy has no impact, well it does."

    Prove that, can you?

    "You are calling me out for not producing figures but you know full well it is not in your interest these figures are known since they will counter your argument."

    Then why are you playing into my hands by not producing them? I keep asking, so if they'd make me look foolish why don't you produce them? Man, that'd show me!

    "Hence you are afraid to the take the bet."

    Hang on - there's a bet? As far as I can see, I keep asking and asking for you to come up with stats supporting the idiotic bollocks you're spouting, and you keep failing. Somehow this makes ME afraid, apparently. Have you put your brain in the wrong way round this morning?

    "The assertion software development is impacted by torrent downloads are not "made up" facts but widely held industry opinion."

    Ooh, there's another fantastic totally spurious "widely" from you. Done a survey, have you? Do please share its results with us.

    Opinions aren't facts, you hapless fucking dolt. That's why they're called by a different name - because they're NOT accepted to be definitively true.

  • Meho #90 2 years ago

    I am happy Geohot has released the hack into the wild (yes he did), because that means someone will sooner or later circumvent regional protection on PS2 titles and I will be able to play my import games on the PS3 rather than torture my trusty old chipped PS2.

    Sure, being able to play backups of PS3 games would also be fine, I dropped my copy of BlazBlue BluRay the other day and was scared shitless that it will break. I never play originals on my Xbox 360, always using backups just in case. On my Wii, I even just chuck them all onto the USB harddrive.

    But as for the silly discussion about piracy: as someone else mentioned and i will repeat: PS3 was unbroken for three years and it still suffers no piracy. Have the sales of PS3 games been noticeably higher than for hacked consoles like Xbox 360 and Wii? No. Not really. So, can you tell me, how did the "no piracy" situation actually help PS3???
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/10 @ 10:58

  • dirk_aircool #91 2 years ago

    great.cant wait to start paying another £50 a year for console virus protection on top of the money for the Pc antivirus.do these haking wankers work for Norton.

  • irve77 #92 2 years ago

    I don't care if there are ever copy games on the ps3

    But it would be cool if hacking the PS3 would open up a fully fledged version of linux to turn your PS3 into a proper media centre with the ability to play any video/audio and to access all website on a fully functioning web browser.

    add in a little bit of homebrew ... and i'm totally sold on the idea ...

  • jjolley #93 2 years ago

    At Rev. Stuart Campbell:
    For a man of the cloth you certainly use inappropriate language. I'd love to hear one of your services, it'd probably have lots of "you betta do whah god fuckin' tells yah" and things like that. Think American child evangelist meets Rambo and you're probably there.

  • Galahad #94 2 years ago

    It is a complete hack, he has hacked into the machine, so it's more than fair to say he has done so. :S Having hacked it is not defined as having released something that everyone can use.
    As far as flaming GeoHot for what he has done, well you can't accuse someone that works in a gun making factory of murder because he knows what the gun might be used for (just realised similar analogy has been used several times, but i'll keep it to push the point - but also point out if his intention is that he likes making guns knowing they will kill people, so what, if he doesnt build it someone else likely will). If you have an iPhone you'll understand how fantastic this guy and his work is - i was very dissapointed with the phone until i ran blackra1n and opened up so many options that should of been there to start off with. Having jailbroken my iPhone although it opened up so very many fantastic things it has also opened up the option to download and install pirated applications and games through a third party piece of software.
    I hate paying for overpriced software and games and rarely do, except on the 360, probably only because to do otherwise it would mean bricking my XBox for XBL, i'm sure Sony will setup a similar system and the majority of people will opt to pay for games. When you consider though that you can pay AU $50-60 for a new game on ebay, generally a multi region, OR pay $120 in the stores it's pretty clear that games are massively overpriced. If companies are ok with raping peoples wallet i don't see why i should be too concerned if there are people out there raping the companies back - and to suggest the prices are what they are to make up for piracy would be very naive, they charge what people pay.

    Personally, if i had a PS3 i wouldnt hack it because i would play games online, as i do with the 360 - i have hacked my mums and sisters Wii though, and my brother has hacked his, because really who plays that online? I rarely play PC games (Dragon Age at the moment though), and wouldnt pay for any if i did, thus downloading a PC game and playing it instead of not paying for it and thus not playing it, i, and people like me, have no impact on game sales. I guarantee the majority of people out there downloading games do so with having no impact on game sales because they would not of otherwise bought the game. So really, you can't look at torrent downloads and then say that using these stats we can see why the game didnt sell very well.

  • thegamesthething #95 2 years ago

    jjolley you are missing the point. We are very lucky to have one of the elder statesmen of British video gaming posting here.

    "NO IT FUCKING ISN'T YOU STUPID HALFWITTED FUCKING CUNT."

    See the incisive intellect at work? I'm constantly amazed he isn't more widely appreciated.

  • makeamazing #96 2 years ago

    well you can't accuse someone that works in a gun making factory of murder because he knows what the gun might be used for

    And this is why there is a problem with the world, its called not taking responsibility for your actions...and saying... "Well someone else will make a machine gun that will kill people, so we should".

    Of course this is only a PS3 hack, but the guy who has done it, knows full well that 99.9% of the people wont do it (we dont want to mess with the internals of our PS3), but the small minority will, and the majority of those messing will want to hack the ps3.

  • yeemeng1980 #97 2 years ago

    Maybe SONY s'd offer him a job?

  • headrush #98 2 years ago

    I hate piracy. It is not fair that some people play for free while others spend their hard earned money. I think the developers have the right to get paid for their work.
    And despite what the inet commies say: It might kill the industry in the long run. Look what happened to Commodore and Amiga.
    Look what happened to the DS. Sure, the sales figures are still up, despite massive piracy. But it is obvious that the system gets more and more spongebob/disney/identikit-toddler-bullshit because those are the only titles that still get bought.

  • Bigglesworth #99 2 years ago

    but also point out if his intention is that he likes making guns knowing they will kill people, so what, if he doesnt build it someone else likely will

    What a completely specious argument that is. Leaving aside the issues of PS3 hacking and even gun manufacture for a moment, what about the novel concept of personal fucking responsibility?

  • Galahad #100 2 years ago

    Seriously, you think someone that works in a gun factory should be taking responsibility for someone being killed by said gun? I would of thought the analogy would be pretty clear that it would stupid to suggest he should be held responsible for what is done with said gun. The famous saying, guns don't kill people, people kill people. That famous, and valid, point is thrown out of the window and it's suggested that guns don't kill people, neither do people, just the person working in the factory making the gun? I think if you're talking about responsibility then you need to look at the people choosing to pirate games and not the people that have made this possible, whether that be their intent or not.
    I wouldnt be suprised if half of the people complaining about piracy do infact watch pirated movies, nice to have a high moral stance when you really shouldnt be taking it. Regardless, i think to suggest that what this guy has done or is going to do is piracy is unfair, and certainly incorrect. He is only providing something that other people will take and use to create other things, however some of these things could possibly be piracy related, and then other people will take these and partake in piracy. There will be many things not related to piracy that this will open up, how far back do you really go to place blame on the end user partaking in piracy? The blokes working at Sony writing the software didn't write it to help the end user partake in pirating games, but their part is no less pertinent than GeoHot's.
    Next thing we should go flame the creator of Nero, the burning software, for enabling people to put pirated software, music, movies, etc, onto a disc, or the companies that release CD/DVD/BluRay Burners (which ironically would include Sony). Or it can even be pointed out that piracy is destroying the TV industry, among other things, Sony sell TV recorders which can then be used to share such recorded TV, so the bloke in the Sony factory making a TV recorder or DVD burner should be taking responsibility for supporting the piracy industry?
    I think the word 'hack' is too easily equated to piracy and that people should stay their hand and mouth before they jump to that conclusion.

  • Bigglesworth #101 2 years ago

    For the most part I agree with you, which is why I specifically mentioned leaving aside the two issues raised in order to attack the wider argument. Its the one most commonly issued by those who in some way profit from the misery of others.

  • Geordiemp #102 2 years ago

    More important to gamers, there is an SPE thats used for anti piracy blah blah,

    Prefer if they use it to make the games run better no ?

    Sounds like they have enough anti piracy without using SPE's

  • Kaminari #103 2 years ago

    So the PS3 has been hacked?

    Not quite so, according to another PS3 hacker going by the name of Streetskater.

  • dmeyer1227 #104 1 year ago

    Ummmm as of jan 24th ive been burning games to my hddand playing them with a dummy disc which kind of makes this article out dated and full of mis information. Isn't the blu ray drive concidered compromised when a disc spins in it but the information on a blu ray disc is blocked and replaced with the information of the game on the hdd? Get with it Eurogamer your information is old news

  • dmeyer1227 #105 1 year ago

    Did you know? The guy who hacked the psp actually works for sony now?