Tech Interview: PlayStation Move
Digital Foundry vs. Dr Richard Marks.
With Microsoft Kinect and Nintendo 3DS dominating the E3 headlines, it is perhaps too easy to overlook the strong showing of PlayStation Move at the industry's showpiece event.
The launch line-up of games is looking impressive: bespoke Move titles like Start the Party are genuinely great fun, previous hits like Heavy Rain are getting the upgrade treatment with well-realised interface implementations, while forthcoming heavy-hitters from Sony such as Killzone 3, Gran Turismo 5 and LittleBigPlanet 2 are all slated to support the new hardware.
While Move doesn't have the sci-fi allure of Kinect, the foundations of its basic design are extremely strong, and its performance in terms of precision and latency is best-in-class. There's also the device's basic flexibility: Move can "do" gesture-based games similar to Harmonix's excellent Kinect title, Dance Central. The E3 unveiling of the accomplished SingStar Dance proved that while full-body scanning can't be achieved, the overall effect turns out to be much the same.
Moreover, unlike Kinect, core titles can be easily supported. SOCOM 4 demonstrated that Move adds genuine value to a tactical shooter in a way that simply couldn't be implemented on the competing HD motion controller, providing a naturally intuitive interface that we found to be markedly superior to the standard DualShock setup.
However, it's fair to say that reception to PlayStation Move hasn't been uniformly positive. There's a train of thought that suggests perhaps Move doesn't offer enough to differentiate it from the Wii remote, that the accuracy and performance it represents isn't the hook required to bring the casual audience to the PlayStation 3.
So, when Sony offered us the chance to speak one-to-one with R&D Manager of Special Projects, Dr Richard Marks, that was the very first point we put to him...
Digital Foundry: At the Sony media conference, the emphasis with Move was on fidelity and precision. From a design perspective, that's the Holy Grail: ultra-low latency and accuracy. But does that tally with the needs of the audience that Sony needs to attract to the PS3? Would a casual gamer really be attracted to Move because of its precision?
Richard Marks: My colleague Anton [Mikhailov] has a really good way of summarising that actually. The thing that matters to the average person is not how precise it is or how responsive it is at all. Those words don't have much meaning to them, but how well connected you feel to the game matters. They want to feel like their actions matter. They don't care if it's sub-millimetre or anything like that. They want to know that what they're doing is having an effect. That 1:1 feeling of it doing the right thing is all that matters.
The broad numbers aren't so important but the fact that it feels right when you use it, that's what matters. The way we think about it is that there's a data layer and that has to be really good. On top of that you have the interpretation layer: how you choose to interpret that data. We want to give the game developers as much freedom as possible to interpret the game data so if the data is as good as possible they have more freedom to interpret it as they want. They can smooth the heck out of it, make it super-sluggish or super-stable or they can make it super-responsive. We want that creative freedom to be available to the game developer.
If we wanted them to make one kind of game, we would have tuned everything to that one kind of experience. That's all it would do, and that's not what we tried to do.
Digital Foundry: When you began your research, did you look into the z-cams, like Project Natal?
Richard Marks: Yeah, actually we did...
Digital Foundry: You - personally - were doing the precursor work to that before with EyeToy, right?
Richard Marks: Right. I'm still a heavy proponent of 3D cameras. I think they're really interesting technology. We had many different 3D camera prototypes and we had our game teams look into that to evaluate what they could do with it. There are some experiences that it can do that are really neat but there just weren't enough experiences that made it make enough sense as a platform-level controller.
Coming back is that sometimes we need buttons to have certain kinds of experiences. Other times we need more precision than we can get out of those cameras. We need to know exactly what you're doing with your hands, especially in the more hardcore experiences.
Digital Foundry: So you're saying that the technology actually limits the kinds of games you can make?
Richard Marks: If it's just that 3D camera, yeah I guess. That's what we ran into with EyeToy. When you have only the camera, it's a magical feeling but sometimes you just wish you could select something. I don't want to wave to click a button.
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Comments (62) Latest comment 2 years ago
Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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Yeah. I agree.
I think this could turn out quite well. Almost as though that long term strategy for Sony (media streaming, blu-ray, 3D etc) is actually starting to pay off.
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If it's practical it actually saves a lot of money... Great to know!
Otherwise, great article. I think that Sony, maybe for the first time this generation, got it right. Camera + accurate motion detection + BUTTONS = best motion control out there. Now they need to back it up with games that aren't Wii rip-offs.
Their 3D isn't looking as good though... 3D TVs are too expensive at the moment I think. And the 3DS with no glasses and better tech than the PSP is looking good.
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Seriously? Everyone almost knows but REALLY? Are you actually saying thats its a useful thing to know? are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you are thining of waving the Move with one hand and with the other holding half of the DS3 and you are telling me that you find that a good idea?
wow.. Ok, turn on your PS3, put in there a game. Any game that you wont die within 3 mins and just hold it with the left hand and tell me what you think and how your hand starts feeling fter 5 mins of trying to hold / balance/ use it with just one hand. Its not heavy at all ofc but you should get it. If I get the Move I wont even try something as stupid as using it with a DS3.
Nice interview but still something missing from the Move. Im probably gonna end up buying it since I tend to waste my money on crap but I hope they release a couple of well worth tittles for it cause Ive avoided buying a Wii for a reason -.-
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I thought I was going to ignore move, but it's reasonably priced, and if there are the games - especially an intuitive control for FPSs - I am totally in. Head tracking for leaning etc in an first person game would be great.
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http://bl og.us.playstation.com/2010/06/1...
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you're a condescending prick. do you talk to people like that face to face just because you don't agree, you obnoxious twat? to everyone else i apologise for my language
i like kordan11 didn't know that fact either and am glad that i have the OPTION should i wish to use the DS3 in that way. some people may not be able to afford the whole package from the off.
an informative interview that left me feeling really positive about the technology and what it can do to enhance the gaming experience. it seems more versatile the the Wii's which i think has been a wasted opportunity so far and has become stale.
Sony are spot on about buttons too. whatsmore full gesture control just sounds too exhausting to maintain for the hours a day i play games.
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Also: Dr Richard Marks should be doing all the talking for Sony about any topic whatsoever from now on.
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Right, lads! We want casual gamers, and we want them now. They're stupid enough to buy anything with either 'Sports' or 'Fitness' in the title; get on it!
We've got something you might like, already sir...We've copied the Wiimote and nunchuck almost exactly, only we changed the colour, made it look like a dodgy vibrator and made up some shite about it being compatible with any games we want.
Fuckin brilliant! Market it! Get it on the shelves...here's the tag, guys - "What you would rather - Pay £300 for a state of the art PS3 and Move, or £150 for the Wii which, incedentally, does exactly the same thing as Move, has been out a little longer, has plenty more games, is attractive to a casual audience, and only serves a casual audience....."
Oh, hang on.....maybe this aint such a good idea?...............
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show me where on the Wii you can get killzone 3 in 3D and with motion control.
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Ignore him, he's just trolling.
Edit: Also, it seems Sony are making a move (heh) for the hardcore at least as much as for the casual with this thing. The game lineup and (especially) Kevin Butler's speech point in that direction.
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I bet you were praying for news of the Wii HD at E3, isn't Wii HD exactly what you described Move to be.
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Classy guys. I really hope Move does well for them.
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One of the problems with Natal is in something DR Marks said indirectly, which is the software has to decide what is a gesture and what is you turning and pointing or just moving around in the case of a normal game. What i noticed when that one guy was doing the Video Natal presentation was how he made sure his arms were at his side and he kept his movements very still. When i play games standing up i dont keep still or rigid, i move around... Natal has to decide in movement recognition, is that me saying i want it to do something or am i just moving around, to me this is one of its biggest faults... but no one is really has mentioned it.
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I'm actually starting to get quite excited for Move now. *goes to look at the game demo's again*
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And I slowly go insane
I hear your voice on the line
But it doesn't stop the pain
If I see you next to never
How can we say forever
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
I took for granted, all the times
That I though would last somehow
I hear the laughter, I taste the tears
But I can't get near you now
Oh, can't you see it baby
You've got me goin' CrAzY
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
I wonder how we can survive
This romance
But in the end if I'm with you
I'll take the chance
Oh, can't you see it baby
You've got me goin' cRaZy
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
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The Sorcery demo is probably what did it for me...It looks like it uses Move in a way that is fun and immersive without being a Wii rip off. If they can expand that into having a decent story and a good long experience, i would buy Move for it. More games like that would be brilliant.
The technology behind Move sounds simple but it's quite surprising what it can actually do. It was about the only motion controller at E3 that showed me it was (close to) 1:1 control and virtually lag free (Wii is obviously close to lag free, but looked nowhere near 1:1 during E3 from what i saw; whereas Kinect looked both laggy and nowhere near 1:1).
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Shame that the 3D TV will probably have to wait a couple of years - they aren't as expensive as I had thought they would be, but too expensive nonetheless.
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That said, I'd clearly buy a 3D tv if I had enough disposable income.
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It does look good enough to me to invest in a 3D TV within the next 12 months.
I will also be getting Move for Socom 4 and Sorcery.
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The already converted saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, the never to be saying otherwise; and insults back and forth. What's the point of all this?
Bai!
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Not if its at the price suggested it wont. They need to be sub $100. They need it bundled and cheaply.
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http://ww w.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/vid...
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MS have blew it with Kinetic. I'm sure it will sell with MS's marketing machine though. Joe Public are generally sheep which believe anything they see advertised. I think they could be in for a bit of a public backlash if the tech is like it was at E3. The fact it can't be used when sitting down is a show stopper imo.
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I more or less fall within the group of "hardcore gamers" (though there are certainly many days where I actually find myself spending more time reading about games than actually playing them
I think it's going to be great for shooters - if not for competitive multiplayer (but I only play that casually anyway), then at least to enhance the singleplayer experience. Action adventure games or some types of RPGs might be other genres where Move could work very well with relatively "subtle" implementation (ie. no crazy, constant sword swinging required, but more like the relatively small gestures like the ones in the Sorcery E3 demo).
Where I'm a lot more skeptical is with games where I need to stand up to properly use a motion controller and/or require me to flail my arms around like a mad man.
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I like to play my "core" games with the lights off, I want to be transported into the action, I want to disapear into the virtual world, I don't want the action to come into my living room, I don't want to take cover behind my sofa, I don't want to pertend my house is New York in flames, for the simple fact it will never work, no by means of holding a plastic gun with a pink ball, or standing in front of the tv waving my harms. It's the other way! Me inside the virtual world! Turn the lights off, make me there, don't come here, I'm here all the time!
On the other hand, I have no doubt that this controlers (?) can and will work when the main thing happening it's happening inside my living room, my friends, my family - the "casual" (as in what's important is the socialing not the games in itself).
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Im really looking forward to move. It seems to be really well thought out. What he said about buttons I completely agree with. There are some actions that without buttong would need complex gestures which creates all sorts of issues with the time it takes. Having buttons means that more complex actions are done instantly.
I like that the camera can still be used for head tracking and leaning though. A game like socom which you really need to keep to cover for would benefit so much from being able to leen and peak round corners. In confrontation beaing able to quickly shoot and get to cover isnt easy.
I wonder if theyd make it so i could just use the camera for games like that for the leen and peak? Itd make competitive shooting much easier and more immersive.
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I never thought it would happen but I am genuinely intrigued about the Move. It probably stems from the fact that they showed it with quite a few 'core' games and hardly any casual ones. The opposite of the press conference at GDC really.
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You can use two Wii remotes at once though? HOTD Overkill has a dual wield mode (and it's awesome).
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I should really buy that game. My girlfriend really loves rail shooters on the Wii, for some reason.
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I hope there's gonna be a lot of arcade shooter on the PSN soon, maybe remake of virtual cop? House of the dead? Point Blank? $10 a piece? I buy that.
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Can the Move really calibrate so whereever you are, if you point to the corner of the TV thats where your cursor goes. Th eonly tech with true accuyracy HAS been the old time crysis light gun on RGB TV's.
If Move is more accurate, maybe the wide angle lens and depth helps keep the calibration, then the light gun games might be more immersive (READ turn off the cursor).
I Guess to surmise, can move light gun games work without a screen cursor ?
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Yeah... true. But the better 3D features of Move make this a better option. All IMHO ofc...
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Exciting!
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At the moment Move seems like a much more convincing long-term proposition for games, but it looks like people on Amazon.co.uk don't necessarily agree, with Kinect sitting much higher on the 'wished for' list: [link url=http://www.amazon.co.uk%2Fgp%2Fmost-wished-for%2Fvideoga mes%3Fie%3DUTF8%26ref_%3Dpd%5Fnr%5Fvg%5Fh%5F%5Fmte&tag=theot hersid0c-21&linkCode=ur2&camp=1634&creative=19450]http://www.amazon.co.uk% 2Fgp%2Fmost-wish...[/link]
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What? Start making sense dude.
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Last year most people got caught in the smoke and mirrors showing of MS and Natal ,and laughed at Move because the tech demo seemed improvised and hadnt any fancy publicity with whole families sitting toghether playing non-existant games.
Some people ,though ,realized that the Move tech was actually there and offered best of two worlds in motion controls. Then some questions arose ....how do you play a FPS with Natal ,how do you shot for instance?Has everything to be done by gestures?
Now ,one year later ,one thing seems clear. Move is the better approach out of the two ,and the guys behind it know exactly what they are doing.
Now ,one
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@ Doctor_What
I remember watching the E3'09 on stage demo of Move and being really impressed with what they came up with live. The presentation wasn't flashy, but they showed that it worked well - They sold me on it there and then.
As for Kinect topping pre-order charts I can't say as I'm surprised, It's very flashy and certainly has the wow factor about it, but if the rumors about its limitations are true then I think word of mouth will dent its success down the line. For me it doesn't seem practical enough, whereas Move does.
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I second that. I've tried to report spam before, and not only was it a long tedious process, it took a long time before noticing any reaction.
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I don't think Move is that much more practical than Kinect. It's just that its limitations are more obvious, so people will likely starting using it with lower expectations.
Having said that though, I'm not really into this "motion control" thing. If I was, I would have bought a Wii already.
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"So the click of a button is equally the input, but also the feeling that it actually occurred. That's such an important thing. If you make a gesture to make something happen all the time, you don't have that immediate feeling of knowing that it worked"
Its one thing to give inpuut, but its another to trust that input has been "heard". We just trust that a button press has been "heard" 100%, every time. Its a foundation of modern gaming. An interesting point in general, regardless of motion control, and one that I'd not considered before. I learned something simple today that will be genuinely useful, and its not even 10am
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I'll use my SIXAXIS as it's light enough to be a NavCon. Already got a Playstation Eye thrown in with my PSP last year.
Can't wait to try an FPS with it.
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I agree - I have reported a number of these spammers myself, and have always found it exasperating when I have had to go to that user's profile page and then click "Report" and then click spam. It very easily distracts and takes you away from the comments thread. EG, a "Report User" button in the comments thread (with categories - like spam, abuse, etc in a poplist, kind of like Gamespot) with penalties for any user who tries to abuse this facility, would be very much appreciated.