New PS3 firmware kills Linux

By Richard Leadbetter Published 29 March, 2010

"Security concerns" end OtherOS.

Sony has announced that OtherOS capabilities, including support for Linux, will no longer be available with the release of PlayStation 3 firmware 3.21 on 1st April. Citing "security concerns", the platform holder has confirmed that all models of PS3 will be affected.

"For most of you, this won't have any impact on how you use your PS3," says the Official PlayStation Blog. "If you are one of the few who use the 'Other OS' feature, or if you belong to an organisation that does, then you can choose not to upgrade your system."

However, not upgrading your system with the mandatory upgrade essentially cripples your PlayStation 3 in a number of ways. From 1st April, maintaining your current firmware blocks access to PSN, preventing online gaming and access to the PlayStation Store.

Looking further ahead, newer PlayStation titles built on the more recent SDKs will prompt you to upgrade to the new firmware when inserted into your PS3. Cancel the update and they won't run.

Blu-ray movie playback will be affected too: specifically, the support for 3D Blu-ray movies planned for the summer will not be available. Of less consequence is that streaming copy-protected videos held on an external media server will no longer work.

Last year the platform holder launched a slimmer model of the PS3, which had OtherOS support removed by default.

If you do have Linux installed on the PS3, Sony warns that you should remove valuable data from the OtherOS partition on your hard drive before upgrading to firmware 3.21, as you "will not be able to access that data following the update".

What hasn't been revealed is whether the 10GB of hard disk space Linux occupies can be reclaimed, or whether the user will need to backup content and reformat the drive in order to get the storage space back.

Some kind of patch to OtherOS was seen as inevitable in the wake of Geohot's exploit for the PlayStation 3, which uses a hardware memory glitch in combination with Linux to open up all areas of the console's RAM. While there has been no hint of piracy as yet, the hacker's most recent post sees him making clear progress in breaching the security surrounding the GameOS level of the PS3.

In taking such a measure to counter the hack, the logical conclusion is that Sony wants to the limit overall number of PS3s out there potentially capable of running copied games - an extraordinary pre-emptive strike against the possibility of piracy.

While action was inevitable and only a very small minority will be in any way affected, the question must be asked whether a more elegant solution could have been achieved. PS3 Linux users might have hoped that OtherOS itself could have been patched to prevent the exploit, as opposed to having the support pulled completely.

Update: SCEE has replied to our request for more information, but unfortunately the official statement doesn't really tell us much more:

"To provide a more secure system for those users who are enjoying games and other entertainment content on the PS3 system and also to protect the intellectual property of the content offered on the PS3 system, we have decided to delete the feature to address security vulnerabilities of the system. We do not comment on other details since this is a security related issue, however we are continually looking to improve the security level."

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (176) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • GamesConnoisseur #1 2 years ago

    Piracy is harmful enough for Sony to ACT against a mere twinkle in the eye possibility, how can people still claims that piracy doesn't really makes that much of a difference?!

    Talk to Sony

  • oupe #2 2 years ago

    I'll be blocking any future updates. Not for piracy but for homebrew purposes. XBOX 1 has proven this to be very valuable. Next to that I still regret that i updated my 360 to a point past linux
    Edited by 2 at 29/03/10 @ 08:46

  • MaoZedong #3 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:40:08 17-12-2011

  • Stardusted #4 2 years ago

    Sony would never lie...

  • TafKas #5 2 years ago

    I agree entirely, surely there can't be that many ps3 Linux users...?

  • JesusFMA #6 2 years ago

    I do use linux, not for hacking, but to programming some inoffensive code, IMO, this is "Totally Gay" and I'm very disappointed .. I really though they would provide a more "elegant" solution.

    Damn!

  • Vanmunt #7 2 years ago

    As soon as that moron George Hotz started posting images like this the days of OtherOS were numbered. There were plenty of good reasons for hacking OtherOS but hacking the GameOS and then sharing the exploit was always going to cause a heavy handed response.

    +1

  • kosigan #8 2 years ago

    @1 - When the situation changes, so must the response. It was only a matter of time before Sony pulled OtherOS, due to that hacker's bragging about what he'd done, which had nothing at all to do with using the PS3 as it was intended. I'm not a Sony sycophant - they make their share of mistakes - but this is all down to GeoHot, so blame him.

  • Dan234 #9 2 years ago

    @designerheadache

    Seems fair to me, you cant blame them for wanting to protect their system, if it happened to MS or Ninty they would do the same.

    The same has happened to Nintendo, thankfully they're unable to secure their system. If it were up to Nintendo, I'd still be waiting for a media player more than 3 years after the console came out and there wouldn't be Linux. Are these things so dangerous for the average customer that they must be kept away from them?

    And I'm pretty sure someone could go to Trading Standards in the UK, win, and force Sony to keep OtherOS... at least in the UK.

  • Widge #10 2 years ago

    Do you really care that much about it then? Or is this some principle battle?

  • Goodfella #11 2 years ago

    Hmm, that's an interesting point. Basically they are disabling a feature (if you upgrade the firmware) that some people may have bought the console for.

    I don't blame Sony and I don't use other OS but isn't that a tad illegal?

  • Lord_Gremlin #12 2 years ago

    I've always told - PS3 will never be hacked to run pirated games. That's all.

  • Beano #13 2 years ago

    "I don't blame Sony and I don't use other OS but isn't that a tad illegal? "

    No, why would it be?
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 09:25

  • Erebu #14 2 years ago

    "As soon as that moron George Hotz started posting images like this the days of OtherOS were numbered. There were plenty of good reasons for hacking OtherOS but hacking the GameOS and then sharing the exploit was always going to cause a heavy handed response."

    QFT +1

  • Goodfella #15 2 years ago

    @ Beano

    You tell me.

    Just seems a bit naughty that either way your system is being disabled of features that you may have bought it for.

  • davisorle #16 2 years ago

    I do own a PS3 as of recently but that doesnt change my mind... Most kiddos that do have a PS3 and were crying out loud that ones of their console's advantages was " Other Os" capability ofc wont say they mind the least about it being cut off when Sony has no right to do so. When you sell and promote a product with some possibilities you have NO right to take those from the consumer. There is no single consumer that would return his "old/non" slim version of PS3 claiming that to get his money back from Sony and Sony not giving them back. So many ppl can sue them. I honestly dont know how they will pull this one. I know id be way too damn pissed for this kind of action taken from Sony even if it is to fight piracy.

    Its really not China here that they keep making new rules and laws for the internet and torrents to take his rights by force and not letting them even google or youtube ( ffs ).

    Like that fella on the first post linked from Sony themselves, this si embarassing for a company to do so.

  • doulema #17 2 years ago

    Its funny reading from everyone that Sony is doing the right thing. I guess no one is aware of his rights as consumer on his own products or people are generally too naive nowadays.

  • Shakey_Jake33 #18 2 years ago

    It's funny how people are being negatively rated for even loosely acknowledging the existence of consumer rights. I actually think Sony is making the correct decision here, but these issues do exist.

  • Beano #19 2 years ago

    @Goodfella : You first claimed that it would be a "tad illegal" to use Linux on PS3?

    And I ask again... why would it be "illegal" to install Linux on PS3?

    Linux is not illegal and linux was supported and advertised as an option on PS3 by Sony themselves. Hardly illegal in any way.

  • miiiguel #20 2 years ago

    It's the same thing MS did to USB support (now we're getting it back, but still). Only thing that changed is the comments section.

    No one blame no hacker back then...
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 09:55

  • Retroid #21 2 years ago

    Well, shit :(

    I suppose that's 10gb of HDD space I can get back, then...

  • Goodfella #22 2 years ago

    @ Beano

    Eh?

    Where did I say it was illegal to use Linux on the PS3? All I said was it was a tad illegal for Sony to remove OtherOS. Learn to read.

  • Nazo #23 2 years ago

    Well this sucks, I don't actually use the Linux features but I always thought it was neat that it was there if I wanted to, even if it seemed a fairly half-hearted implementation. Seems like another case of honest consumers being punished for the actions of idiots.
    George Hotz is undoubtedly a twat, but I don't think Sony is responding proportionately here. How is removing features from a console which may have contributed to people's decision to buy better than, say, some of the ridiculous DRM issues that have arisen recently? Both punish consumers unfairly, yet Ubisoft is castigated while people seem to be supporting Sony on this.

  • Tangled #24 2 years ago

    Why all the hate towards the hacker? If it wasn't him trying to break into the console, it would be someone else. It's not like Sony thought that people are so nice nobody would try to abuse Linux - PS3 is choke-full with security measures, do you think they were included by accident?

    Obviously though,OtherOS ended up too hotz for Sony to handle.

    /gets coat

  • miiiguel #25 2 years ago

    Well, and I think this decison is right, and the claims pre-launch (coming no doubt from the PS2 world domination, they were silly drunk with the suceess, weren't they?) that PS3 would replace the PC were way too far out.

    I also doubt it's illegal, just don't upgrade the fw if you want to use "other os" on a games console, which is kinda silly, imo.

  • jonbwfc #26 2 years ago

    @Tangled 'Why all the hate towards the hacker? If it wasn't him trying to break into the console, it would be someone else.'

    That is frankly one of the... strangest justifications I've heard in a very long time. Try applying the same logic to, I dunno, someone breaking into your house and see if it works.

    The hacker - who to me really does seem a bit of a self-publicity merchant - set this chain of events in motion. The responsibility for the situation we are in is his but the responsibility for the.. appropriateness of the response belongs with Sony. Both deserve a share of flack for bringing about something which has upset an admittedly quite small percentage of playstation owners.

  • Psi #27 2 years ago

    Couldn't sony just offer the swine a job and ask him to stop pissing around? Would make all this go away.

  • Tangled #28 2 years ago

    @miiiguel
    > I also doubt it's illegal, just don't upgrade the fw if you want to use "other os" on a games console, which is kinda silly, imo.

    I don't think it's silly for the US agencies that are using clusters of PS3's for computing. They just won't upgrade the firmware though.

  • LakuNoce #29 2 years ago

    @JesusFMA

    What is gay about this?

    It doesn't look good, it's not creative, it can't dance -
    and (by its original meaning) it certainly doesn't make people happy.

  • Goodfella #30 2 years ago

    @ farticusmaximus

    Yeah but changing SKU's isn't quite the same as removing an existing feature which lets face it, who actually uses OtherOS and what for?

  • gintoki #31 2 years ago

    It's a shame as a lot of people have been working hard to get Linux to use more of the PS3's features and now cause Hotz jumped the gun I can't see the work getting finished. I feel bad for those developers.

  • Darren #32 2 years ago

    I remember downloading Linux and burning it to a DVD in anticipation of my launch PS3 back in March 2007. I even formatted the HDD so I had a 10 GB partition free for it. I never used it though as I found out the PS3 is effectively crippled anyway with access to the GPU and Cell limited so I just never bothered installing it. I don't know of anyone else either who bothered with Linux on the PS3. It was a nice idea but not allowing full access to the hardware made it a bit pointless IMO. Can't say I'm bothered at all that it is being removed completely.

  • TRUTH #33 2 years ago

    Who cares - it's a console not a PC. A console can never beat a PC esp running OS!

  • Eraysor #34 2 years ago

    Surely retroactively disabling features which may have been a factor in purchasing the product is illegal?

  • xentar #35 2 years ago

    time to buy slim and let the fat one be piracy ready? Not for me, would not use linux on the rig even if they paid me to and I am glad that my platform of choice is pirateless and hope it will stay so

    Edit: I only wonder why the hell Sony didnt sweaten this announcementt with some new features. I guess if they announced crossgame chat or a free game (even PSP mini) for each PS3 owned, nobody would notice the Other SO stuff as 99,99999 % PS3 users do not care :)
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 10:43

  • Shotaro #36 2 years ago

    All this "illegal" talk is crazy, linux is only a feature of the console. For it to be illegal and as one person said a breach of the trading standards it would have to not be fit for purpose, the purpose of a games console being to play games, it does that, everything else is a feature; dvd player, blu-ray player, internet, music player, online gaming, linux, etc

    If losing linux capability meant you could no longer run your games through the accepted method then it would not be fit for purpose

  • davisorle #37 2 years ago

    I'll put it simply.. When you go to buy yourself a new damn TV and you know it's features, you know as a well informed consumer on the subject what you are looking for ( doesnt apply on most kiddos with a console but really not the freakin point ) and you go for the *whatever* model with PIP, with 760p, 1080i and 1080p modes, TrueSurround from it's own speakers, and 4HDMI.. They inform you that you arent the onlyone with ( for example ofc ) one of the HDMI ports not working but its the whole product line, or the TrueSurround ( For those who dont know its the fake immitation surround from the TV itself ) doesn't function but you get ofc Stereo from those same speakers of the TV:

    NOONE is going to ask you "so fucking what, it's not like I use all 4 HDMI ports" nor "only a small % of our consumers use the 4th one" neither "TrueSurround wasn't of much use eitherway".

    Its sad reading the same stupid comment from multiple readers... "Who uses it anyways?" Well done. Even I'm amazed.

  • Tangled #38 2 years ago

    @jonbwfc
    >That is frankly one of the... strangest justifications I've heard in a very long time. Try applying the same logic to, I dunno, >someone breaking into your house and see if it works.

    It wasn't meant to be a justification. Sure, his exploits were the reason the reason Sony made the move. But it's not like he's the only person in the world who can make progress hacking a PS3, and that's what some people here seem to think. "oh, if it wasn't for that one guy, everything would be okay!"

  • EvilBob_leeds #39 2 years ago

    This sucks...

    ...although I am one of the people who stuck on other OS, used it twice and now only remember it when I run out of HDD space.

  • Halo.Jones #40 2 years ago

    For the ones that are thinking about Trading Standards or sueing sony, maybe you ought to read the EULA you to agree to everytime you update your firmware!

    http://ww w.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_...
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 11:11

  • Dan234 #41 2 years ago

    @ Shotaro

    All this "illegal" talk is crazy, linux is only a feature of the console. For it to be illegal and as one person said a breach of the trading standards it would have to not be fit for purpose, the purpose of a games console being to play games, it does that, everything else is a feature; dvd player, blu-ray player, internet, music player, online gaming, linux, etc

    If losing linux capability meant you could no longer run your games through the accepted method then it would not be fit for purpose

    Wait until new games or BDs are published which require a firmware upgrade... Or you go without Linux or you go without the game or BD.

    The least disruptive way would be to patch the bug. The next least disruptive way would be to not allow people who have not yet set up OtherOS to set it up, since if they've not set it up by now then they're probably not going to use it, and bring it back when they've come up with a better patch.

    But taking away that capability from every console shows a disregard for the consumer, it is after all the customer's property, not Sony's, no matter how many EULAs Sony wrap it up in. Odd how people aren't bothered about their rights...

    @xentar

    time to buy slim and let the fat one be piracy ready? Not for me, would not use linux on the rig even if they paid me to and I am glad that my platform of choice is pirateless and hope it will stay so

    I hope that a security hole isn't found in the BD player, media streaming, USB ports, and so on, if Sony carries on fixing bugs like this you'll end up with a pretty useless console...

  • xentar #42 2 years ago

    @Dan234 good point, I admit that but i am optimist. Other OS is a small sacrifice, if some more serious hole would appear Sony has proved record of letting their consoles become piracy heaven. PS2 anyone?

  • smelly #43 2 years ago

    DONT blame sony.

    BLAME the GEOHAT guy.

  • Nuronv #44 2 years ago

    Do I like the idea of them removing a feature as advertised from my console? no
    Do I understand why they have done it? yes

    necessary evil in my opinion

  • smelly #45 2 years ago

    "Couldn't sony just offer the swine a job"


    And encourage other dicks to try?

  • Meho #46 2 years ago

    This IS pretty crappy. As people sad, you sell a product to someone with a list of features and then you corrupt it by removing a feature you were boasting was giving your product an edge over the competition. And, frankly, Sony's explanation that the update 3.21 is optional is pretty damn insulting. So, you won't be able to play new games and watch new BluRay films - effectively making it NOT fit for purpose - but, hey, it's your choice!!! Either way you get features removed with no compensation offered. That sucks.

  • smelly #47 2 years ago

    Question to the moaners : Did you actually use this feature? And if so - what for? Im genuinely at a loss as to what you'd do with it - so i'm genuinely interested.

    (that is of course if you did use it and havent just come on here to slag off sony)

  • Shotaro #48 2 years ago

    @ Dan234

    Wait until new games or BDs are published which require a firmware upgrade... Or you go without Linux or you go without the game or BD.

    The least disruptive way would be to patch the bug. The next least disruptive way would be to not allow people who have not yet set up OtherOS to set it up, since if they've not set it up by now then they're probably not going to use it, and bring it back when they've come up with a better patch.

    But taking away that capability from every console shows a disregard for the consumer, it is after all the customer's property, not Sony's, no matter how many EULAs Sony wrap it up in. Odd how people aren't bothered about their rights...

    All I said was the legal stand point, not that I was happy to have it removed. Also your rights are none existent, you may own the hardware but you do not own the firmware, Sony have the right to modify anything they wish within the firmware as and when they please

  • Retroid #49 2 years ago

    So, I get downvoted for expressing disappointment that a feature I use is being removed from the PS3. That makes a lot of sense.

    It didn't have graphics acceleration but it was useful for doing more mundane things and at least I always used Google Docs and didn't save anything on the HDD.

    Still a massive shame that something which added a lot to the 'boring' side of the machine is just being shut down like this, but given how hobbled the hardware access they allowed on it was it makes we wonder if they're just killing two birds with one stone by stopping a possible avenue for piracy *and* a feature which was probably a Kutaragi project and no-one else's.

  • DrDamn #50 2 years ago

    Mixed feelings about this. It was never a selling point for me, just an interesting aside. I would have preferred that the money and effort spent on this sort of feature (and Home for that matter) were directed towards gaming from the start.

    Is it illegal? No, the small print would certainly have covered this possibility so they are likely within their rights. You could see how the conversation about this would have gone at the top level though. Cost to patch and potential future costs vs removal and no future costs. They would only look at number of people directly impacted and not at the impression this sort of move puts out. So a twatty move by Sony, but an inevitable one following on from the hacker.

  • busboy33 #51 2 years ago

    @kosigan:

    "When the situation changes, so must the response. It was only a matter of time before Sony pulled OtherOS, due to that hacker's bragging about what he'd done . . ."

    Agreed . . . but then Sony flat out explicitly stated earlier this month that they were not going to do this:
    [link url=http://www.haxnetwork.net/2010/03/o theros-will-not-be-removed-from-phat-ps3s/
    ]http://ww w.haxnetwork.net/2010/03/othero...[/link]

    Was that a lie? It certainly looks like it (unless they had planned on not removing it, then in the span of 2-3 weeks changed their mind, wrote the update, tested it, and are ready to distribute). They made the statement expressly because of Geoholt's work, so its not like they didn't know what was going on.
    Did they have to lie to "sneak up" on the hackers? That seems silly, but I guess its possible.

    But the fact remains that Sony looked its customers in the face, smiled, then lied through their teeth at the people that buy their products. That's not good PR, regardless of the motivation behind it. Hell, every company has a motivation for doing dirty things . . . its not like a company does underhanded stuff just because they woke up that day and decided to be evil.

    I stopped buying PlayStation products because Sony lied to me about their launch PS2s ("what systemic drive failures?";). This gen they lied about Backward compatability (circumstances didn't change . . . they just changed their mind), they lied about rumble ("trust us . . . you don't want it . . . is the lawsuit over? Okay, I guess you really want it, and please buy another controller kthxbi";), they lied about this. Saying "people shouldn't get mad at Sony" . . . why the hell not?

    They may have their reasons. They may even be really good reasons. Sony may have been in a corner, where they had absolutely no other choice but to do this, and do this in such a n "ambush" manner. Maybe all that is true . . . but it still looks pretty $hitty, and if I had bought a PS3 because of its alternate OS ability I'd be pretty pissed off right now.

    Imagine if you bought a Ferrari because it could go 180 mph. You could have bought a cheaper, slower car, but were willing to pay extra to get this feature. After your check clears, the dealer informs you that in two days the car will be limited 55 mph -- apparently, some idiots were causing trouble speeding, so thanks for the payment and all but what you bought just changed. Would you say "well, I'm sure they had their reasons" or would you say "give me my money back you bastards"?

  • El-Dev #52 2 years ago

    Quite a bit of understandable fuss on here, I feel sorry for those who use it, but quite pleased for those who are using this as another opportunity to have their usual go at Sony. As has been said before you own the hardware but have a licence for the software so Sony can do what they want, also as it wasn't a main feature that impacts the main use of the console so trade descriptions can't do a thing.

    If this stops piracy on the PS3 then I suppose it is a necessary evil, I'd hate to see see the uproar on here if Sony had to start banning consoles from PSN for piracy.

  • Retroid #53 2 years ago

    Makes me wonder if GeoHot has found an intrinsic flaw in the OtherOS feature which Sony couldn't patch. If so, *then* I can understand them removing it.

    Still bloody annoys me, though.

  • zuljin #54 2 years ago

    @Tangled
    "Why all the hate towards the hacker?"

    Why all the hatred towards that murderer? Everyone hated x, it was only a matter of time before someone killed him.

  • Tangled #55 2 years ago

    @zuljin

    Flawed comparison. Did Hotz personally remove OtherOS from your console? If so, my condolences. And I'm not saying he is free of blame, but painting Sony as an innocent victim of one dastardly person is silly.
    Especially since OtherOS was removed from PS Slim, a few months before the hacker jumped the gun on his success.

  • Merlinho #56 2 years ago

    Clearly the hacker has caused Sony to act, but the action is the Sony equivalent of keeping all of the schoolkids in at lunchtime because one kid did something wrong...

    I'm glad I don't use the feature personally.

  • Widge #57 2 years ago

    RE: the UK Trading Standards comment, picked up this post from a user on Gaf:

    "It would be if OtherOS was an advertised feature. I've just scoured the packaging of my 60GB and it doesn't mention the ability to install another OS, nor does the manual in the box.

    OtherOS was always an unsupported feature. Sony never made any attempt to advertise it's existence."

  • Mnia786 #58 2 years ago

    @designerheadache - +1
    For legit users, this is very disappointing news - we all saw the news stories of PS3's being linked up into hubs and doing all sorts of amazing things. Also, I think even though Sony made their statement saying they wont be removing support but going back on their word is acceptable - they could have just put out a patch right after the exploit causing all linux boots to be destroyed and kicking users out of it without a warning. I think it will have been a well weighed up arguments for and against and the fact that they have done over 3 years without piracy, I think it is a HUGE + for the playstation to stay without piracy in the fact that devs will continue to support the console (no piracy = no loss unless people buy 2nd hand games).

    Disappointed but wholly acceptable and predicted news tbh.

  • smelly #59 2 years ago

    So my question of "did anyone ACTUALLY use this feature" - gets negatives, but no-one has actually answered me "yes" yet.

  • dllord #60 2 years ago

    April fools! ;)

  • vizzini #61 2 years ago

    I use PS3 Linux all the time, so I'm considering writing a letter of complaint to whoever I have to, to avoid losing the feature.

    The only reason I bought the PS3 at the price point I did, was to get all the launch features, which PS2 emulator, SACD and OtherOS were very important.

    I use PS3 Linux for file serving and (MySql) database serving over ODBC, I use the fully functional web browser(Firefox) and OpenOffice, GNU imp on it when the other computers are doing other things in the house. I also need the OtherOS for C programming development, to build and test true cross platform code that runs on both 32bit x86 and 64bit Power PC.

    I've recently just got a (£330) new 22” High-End Sony portable LCD TV, to get more time with PS3 Linux for learning Cell Programming in the spare room; I understand how this decision has been made, but Sony need to provide a cheap solution, to avoid screwing over customers like myself.

    Even if that means having to send my system off for Sony to modify the hardware, to close “George Hotz's” proposed security loop hole, I'll happily do it, provided my UK consumer rights aren't infringed too much.

    With the new portable TV in place, I was actually looking to buy a supplimental ps3 slim model, to replace the requirement for the Fat to live in the lounge for PlayTv use.

    I so hope, this is an early April Fools joke.

  • parablax #62 2 years ago

    So for those of us that have installed linux, will the new firmware automatically reclaim the 10GB linux partition?

  • Arwin #63 2 years ago

    Yes, would be nice if this is an april 1st joke, but I also fear the worst. I also liked to have the OtherOS feature to learn Cell programming. I have a simulator setup in a VMWare image, and can switch between executing the code on the simulator (great for debugging) or on the PS3 directly (great for speed).

    Will be interesting to know how this is going to affect universities and defense projects. Presumably they just won't update their firmware, but does this mean they won't be able to get new machines?

  • Murton #64 2 years ago

    Again, Geohot made mere claims of hacking, he didn't provide sufficient evidence to prove that he had access to all that he claimed to. Same as the guy who claimed to proved climate change was purely man-made but refused to share his raw data or someone banging on about their deity and then merely claiming "faith" as their evidence to his/her existence.

    Besides, when the Slim launched without OtherOS it was pretty clear that they saw how it could be abused. At the time it was being used as a quick and easy way of ripping blu-ray movies, now it's a security risk to the console itself. It was nice of Sony to offer the ability to install another OS legitimately, but I think we all knew that as soon as it was abused it would have to be pulled, as is the case here.

  • jellyhead #65 2 years ago

    I wonder what features they'll remove next in the interest of security? Bacwards compatibility?

  • Tangled #66 2 years ago

    On another note, it's funny how much the comment scores look like a tug-of-war. Some of them go from positive to negative and then to positive again :)

  • kosigan #67 2 years ago

    @busboy33 - You seem to be making the mistake of thinking of "Sony" as a single entity when, in fact, it is made up of a large number of indiviuduals who don't necessarily tell each other everything they're doing. This may have been as much of a surprise to the PS3-Linux department guys as it was to everyone else; then again, it may not. It's hardly unprecedented for a company to deny something right up until the point that they're ready to announce it - and I don't see people spitting this much vehemence about this practice at other times. Now, when they're removing a feature that hardly anyone uses anyway, suddenly lots of people are upset by it. Having said that, my preferred approach would have been to disable it for everybody who's not actually using it in the first instance, then give a longer notice period of removing it for everyone else. Sony aren't going to be making any friends over their handling of this situation, but remember one thing: all companies exist to make money for the shareholders; you, the customer, are the means to that end and nothing more.

  • miiiguel #68 2 years ago

    RE: the UK Trading Standards comment, picked up this post from a user on Gaf:

    If a "Gaf" user said so, it must the the truth, and nothing but the truth!

    /joking :)

  • swissorc #69 2 years ago

    This is poo I feel sorry for PS3 owners who are suffering from this heavy handed approach to piracy although remind yourself it could be worse and ubisoft could ruin your machine even further with DRM

  • alcides #70 2 years ago

    This is such a crying shame that they now deserve to get what's comming. You DON'T lock up such a giganormous functionnality from a system!!!

  • Widge #71 2 years ago

    Ah I’m only passing the comment back. The user in question actually was quite miffed that it had been removed, to the extent to see the documentation/box specs to validate a moanage.

  • des #72 2 years ago

    Another shitty move by Sony,not surprised.
    Fantards defending this,again not surprised,hive must be defended at all cost.

    PS3 can play pirated movies also...might as well eliminate blu-ray

  • chessboxer #73 2 years ago

    This thread is hilarious. I almost forgot it was that time of year until I read this "story".

    I remember a few years ago when Valve's new update for CS:S included random gun jamming. If your gun jammed then you had to press F2 to fix it. Oh the lolz.

  • sd99 #74 2 years ago

    Does the instruction manual that came with the original PS3 state that the OtherOS functionality is available? If so, then Sony have to supply this feature. You do not have to install the new firmware, and as long as you are not required to do so to play games and bluray etc, then that's legal I beleive.

    PSN is probably covered by the EULA.

  • Dan234 #75 2 years ago

    @Shotaro

    All I said was the legal stand point, not that I was happy to have it removed. Also your rights are none existent, you may own the hardware but you do not own the firmware, Sony have the right to modify anything they wish within the firmware as and when they please

    Nonsense. Firmware updates are a service that Sony offer and the customer can choose to use (at least until there's a game which forces a firmware update), but it doesn't mean Sony has the right to remove features which came with the console the customer bought.

    @Widge

    One link
    Another link
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 13:12

  • Jayke #76 2 years ago

    No one bought the ps3 for Linux except the united states government and Standford. The Gov used networked ps3's for password cracking and Standford uses them for research, In both cases it doesn't effect them at all because they don't use the ps3 for entertainment so they don't update them. This should effect no one but hackers. Anyone using the fat for linux spent bout 500 dollars for it to use linux on? doubtful. Anyone that into linux wouldn't like the gimped capability of it.

  • XRevolverX #77 2 years ago

    ARRRRRRRGGGG.....ARRRRRRRRGGG...THIS BE AN OUTRAGE ME HARTY'S....HOW DARE THESE SCURVY DOG, LAND LUBBERS. WHAT WILL I DO NOW ARRRRRRRRRRRGG........CURSE YE CURSE YEEEEEEE......RIGHT IVE SENT THE BLACK SPOT TO SONY OFFICES.....ITS TIME TO PLUNDER THE SCEE..........YARRRRRRRRRR

    lol negative marks....jeesus it was a joke
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 13:39

  • kangarootoo #78 2 years ago

    @Tangled

    "Why all the hate towards the hacker? If it wasn't him trying to break into the console, it would be someone else"

    Ummm, because it WAS him?

    IF it hadn't been him, and it had been someone else, people would be annoyed with that someone else.... but it isn't, so they aren't. Make sense?

  • telboy007 #79 2 years ago

    Does this stop you playing games? No? Well get back to anti-360 comments then... jeez.

  • kangarootoo #80 2 years ago

    There are a few different issues going on here methinks.

    1. Not everyone uses Linux on their PS3, but for those that do, this is a pain in the butt. If you are one of the poeople that DOES use Linux, it matters not one bit whether you are in a moniroty, it is still a pain in the bum. Everyone waffling on about how the PS3 is for games, and how all those whoDO run Linux are complaining about nothing, should probably just move on to a subject that is relevant to them.

    2. I don't know what the legal situation is with removing functionality from the new firmware. I suspect however that the "you don't have to update if you don't want" covers all of that. Your PS3 with Linux installed still does exactly what it did when you first bought it. Its functionality has not changed and will not change.... unless you as a user take steps that you know will change it (i.e. update your firmware).

    3. The actions of said hacker dude obviously raised a security hole that Sony were concerned about. Poeple say "they don't care about their customers", but another way to look at it is "they don't want to spend loads of money maintaining a feature that very few people use, but which could undermine the security of their entire platform, as they have recently discovered". That seems a pretty reasonable business decision to me, and we have Mr Hacker to blame for forcing that decision.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 13:33

  • kangarootoo #81 2 years ago

    Also, we seem far too quick to use the word "lie", when in fact the phrase "changed your mind for very good reasons that could not have been forseen" is rather more suitable. But then why should this thread be any different from any other :)

  • BobsUncle #82 2 years ago

    It's kind of ironic that Geohot was trying to make the system more open and understood, and all he's done is close it off to everyone!

  • kangarootoo #83 2 years ago

    "It's kind of ironic that Geohot was trying to make the system more open and understood"

    I call shenanigans on that one. What I think he was really trying to do was win kudos among his peers.

    It was never really primarily about making things more open (like hacking rarely ever is truthfully).

  • Bigglesworth #84 2 years ago

    "an extraordinary pre-emptive strike against the possibility of piracy"?

    Once more DF sets the hype train rolling. Surely any measure of security, be it encryption keys, DRM or whatever, is merely a pre-emptive strike against the possibility of piracy? Come to think of it, isn't this announcement by Sony actually about a preventive strike against the certainty of piracy?

  • Bigglesworth #85 2 years ago

    And @Spam, why are you quoting an 8-month old statement taken from a newsgroup from a programmer hired to work on PlayStation-Linux support?

  • kangarootoo #86 2 years ago

    @Bigglesworth

    Good call. That is a truly ludicrous sentence.

  • Tangled #87 2 years ago

    @Bigglesworth
    If you don't think that quote's author is relevant enough, there's also one Satoshi Hashimoto, who, in an interview with Impress Watch last August, said that Sony "won't be removing the feature". I can't get to the source because I don't know Japanese.

  • vizzini #88 2 years ago

    How would this work with a motherboard if a firmware update removed the ability to boot strap a linux O/S or Windows O/S? Would Apple be legally entitled to remove bootcamp now?

    In the world of motherboards/routers, they always provide the ability to restore a previous firmware, just in case you don't like the change. Or some over eager person updated your system in error, when you weren't around.

    I find it very hard to believe that Sony can't just patch the firmware to modify the hypervisor behaviour, so that the system will reset/power cycle should the hypervisor detect a cache writeback miss, thereby making linux distros slightly less stable on PS3, but certainly not suitable to the proposed hack. Letting all law abiding customers win.

  • GreyBeard #89 2 years ago

    Were they really concerned about security when they cut the feature from Slims last September?
    Hurm... seems unlikely to me.

  • RexRunti #90 2 years ago

    I got the impression that the only reason that Sony included Linux on the PS3 was for TAX reasons. I believe that in certain parts of the world certain taxes/import duties are heavier against entertainment devices than against PCs. If this is the case does this mean that Sony will have to pay back taxes on this or have they got away scott free.

    PS This has to be the only internet forum in the world that blames the hacker for discovering a security hole not the developer for creating one. "It's not Microsoft's fault Internet Explorer is full of security holes its the hackers, damn them."

    PPS I fully expect the next hack will be to get linux running on later firmware versions anyway.

  • Tangled #91 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    > Also, we seem far too quick to use the word "lie", when in fact the phrase "changed your mind for
    > very good reasons that could not have been forseen" is rather more suitable. But then why should
    > this thread be any different from any other :)

    I see what you did there, remarking that others use a baseless assumption and replacing it with your own baseless assumption :) It's kinda up in the air whether hotz's exploits hit Sony offguard, or the decision to eventually pull the plug on OtherOS was already made by the time of PS3 Slim.

  • Bigglesworth #92 2 years ago

    @Tangled
    Regarding Hashimoto's quote, if you look at the actual text of the interview at Impress Watch you'll see that he talks about how, given the PS3's current strong level of security (my emphasis), there is no need to remove the feature. He also says that if there was further need for cost savings then 'Other OS' could well be dropped for that reason, as it was on the Slim. I don't actually see that he ever says that Sony 'will not remove the feature'.

    Also, as you recognised, that quote too is 8-months-old. Situations change.

  • Tangled #93 2 years ago

    @ Bigglesworth
    As I said, I couldn't find the interview in a language I understand, so maybe he didn't really say the thing that was quoted.

    > Also, as you recognised, that quote too is 8-months-old. Situations change.

    Well, duh. That's what the opening post is saying, that Sony changed their mind (and it didn't even use the word "lie";). So, why are you using the 8-month old argument against it?

  • EvilBob_leeds #94 2 years ago

    "It's kinda up in the air whether hotz's exploits hit Sony offguard, or the decision to eventually pull the plug on OtherOS was already made by the time of PS3 Slim. "

    I see what you did there dude. It's perfectly logical that Sony would pull Linux functionality for no good reason. I mean it's not although they could just stop developing for OtherOS if they wanted to save a bit of money, but not remove the option to use it if you want to. That totally makes sense. In fact I'd imagine the board meeting went much like this;

    Ken : I have another evil plan boys!

    Sony staff : Tell us, oh mighty master!

    Ken : I'm yanking Linux off fat PS3's

    Sony staff : Good one master! But why?

    Kefka : You see I really am evil, and I ran out of puppies to stamp on. My arch nemesis Steve "font of goodness and honesty" Ballmer will be totally foxed. 360 fanboys across the internet will gibber with joy and use it as a bewilderingly daft justification for considering MS a more honest company than Sony! Mu huh, mu huh, muhahahahaha!!!

    Sony staff : Er..... Ken...

    Ken : Silence peons! Call me Kefka from now on! Find me some kittens to punch! Next firmware will make the PS3 fire dog shit out of the vents! And while you're out, your PS3 will ring up phone sex lines in Ulan Bator!
    Edited by 2 at 29/03/10 @ 15:07

  • jag10 #95 2 years ago

    "So, why are you using the 8-month old argument against it"?

    because 8 months ago there wasn't a hack was there?

    i think it's ok to change your mind if it means keeping your product secure tbh.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 15:09

  • vizzini #96 2 years ago

    @RexRunti
    “PS This has to be the only internet forum in the world that blames the hacker for discovering a security hole not the developer for creating one. “

    There isn't a software security hole; he sets up a software program running on Linux, and then uses an electric pulse from a logic-probe to disrupt normal operation of the hardware (in the region his app is running).

    This then allows him to exploiting his hardware skulduggery in software, because the hypervisor's book keeping gets circumvented, leaving him behind the hypervisor's security.

    I can only assume that people that like piracy, have no understanding of how businesses/banks/investors weren't making solid returns in the lead up to the recent world recession, and won't be complaining if the world goes all great depression again.

    Think of the legitimate money that was made from Music / TV / Films / Games prior to torrent piracy, and how small the previous damage, boot legging between friends did in the past.

    These profits where reinvested in both high and low risk business, covering important things like home mortgages, business loans and R&D start up costs, etc. Which is why people should understand that piracy is bad for the global economy, whether they are smart enough to understand the relationship or not.

  • Dan234 #97 2 years ago

    @vizzini:

    Cracking open your PS3, soldering wires to the chips, and twiddling voltage levels while running a specially compiled Linux program is a very long way from being a piracy modchip. If you're prepared to do that you can do more-or-less anything you like with any piece of hardware.

    I'd suggest that Sony had more than enough time to do something about it without losing goodwill from customers who bought the console for that feature, but some executive high up panicked.

  • kangarootoo #98 2 years ago

    @Tangled

    You seem to think that the only "circumstances we could not have forseen" relate directly to this hacker. I am simply saying that generally, companies will adjust their products based on all sorts of factors that could not be forseen.

    We can of course call them liars everytime this happens (perhaps without realising that pretty much every company is a liar by that definition), or we could just get over it and realise that sometimes the world doesn't do everything we want it to.

  • crazyhorse174 #99 2 years ago

    Well heres the thing - if there is some fundamental flaw that is hackable via OtherOS and its possible that people could use this for dastardly means (shhh...piracy!), then how is releasing an update going to solve it? Anyone who wants to run pirated material on the machine will simply avoid updating and wait for the (inevitable?!) release of a custom firmware which mimicks the official releases, but allows pirated code to run.

    As a few people here have hinted, it smacks of a rush job by Sony to fill in a hole with as little hassle for them as possible. Its a shame that people who use OtherOS for legal purposes are going to lose that function.

  • Tangled #100 2 years ago

    @EvilBob_leeds
    > I see what you did there dude. It's perfectly logical that Sony would pull Linux functionality for no good reason. I mean it's not
    > although they could just stop developing for OtherOS if they wanted to save a bit of money, but not remove the option to use it
    > iif you want to.

    Kudos to you, not only you see what I did, but a lot of things I didn't do, never mind speak of :)
    I never said that this was removed to reason other than security. In fact, I'm inclined to think the support from PS3 Slim was also pulled cause of security, despite what Sony say. Decent story, nonetheless.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 16:24

  • Les #101 2 years ago

    "or we could just get over it and realise that sometimes the world doesn't do everything we want it to."

    True. Unfortunately few people can bring themselves to develop that insight and have silly expectations of companies but even more important, public institutions and governments.

  • vizzini #102 2 years ago

    The other problem is that from behind the hypervisor the system's top level keys (that are supposedly there & encrypted) could be retrived and brute force attacked. If that happened you wouldn't need any logic-probe/kernel or OtherOs feature to gain control of the system as people would create custom ps3 firmwares that system would accept.

    So an update will mean that hackable systems will have an old and different set of top level keys from updated systems, which will then remain secure.

  • El-Dev #103 2 years ago

    My God, logic seems to be prevailing here.

  • Les #104 2 years ago

    "Even if that means having to send my system off for Sony to modify the hardware, to close “George Hotz's” proposed security loop hole, I'll happily do it, provided my UK consumer rights aren't infringed too much.

    With the new portable TV in place, I was actually looking to buy a supplimental ps3 slim model, to replace the requirement for the Fat to live in the lounge for PlayTv use."

    If I understand the article correctly, if you don't update the system on which Linux runs, it'll continue to be able to do so. Really sucks if you also use it for gaming or its other features but those can be addressed by the second unit. Definitely not an ideal solution, that's for sure.

    I think this is just an evil ploy from Sony to make all those PS3 Linux users buy an extra Slim model... ;)

    /edit: language
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 16:24

  • funkateer #105 2 years ago

    The biggest fault on Sony's side here is probably offering 'OtherOS' functionality in the first place.

    It just doesn't make ANY sense to use Linux on a closed platform like PlayStation, especially not in the extremely limited way it was supported, and I believe the only reason they have included OtherOS was for publicity reasons only.

    As for companies depending on OtherOS (like the mentioned video encoder): Remember that Linux was supported on PS2 and removed later? You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"

    Want homebrew? Buy a PC, they were meant for that.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 16:18

  • Tangled #106 2 years ago

    @ kangarootoo
    Well, then instead of using a negative bias - "they lied! they promised not to do it!" or positive bias "it's unforeseen circumstances! not exactly their fault!" you could use the neutral version "they changed their mind. given reason was security".

    Also, I've just noticed there was a total of 2 posters before you that used the word "lie", so not exactly a popular trend ;)

  • smelly #107 2 years ago

    Im still waiting on someone to tell me that they used this feature - and what they used it for. So I can understand why losing this feature is such a great loss!

  • Tangled #108 2 years ago

    @ smelly
    There are already responses from 2 people that say they use it. Come now, maybe you shouldn't have that many fellow forumgoers on ignore? ;)

  • Dan234 #109 2 years ago

    @vizzini

    The other problem is that from behind the hypervisor the system's top level keys (that are supposedly there & encrypted) could be retrived and brute force attacked. If that happened you wouldn't need any logic-probe/kernel or OtherOs feature to gain control of the system as people would create custom ps3 firmwares that system would accept.

    So an update will mean that hackable systems will have an old and different set of top level keys from updated systems, which will then remain secure.

    Doesn't work like that, old games still have their old keys and the updated console must still recognise them. If Mr. Hotz manages to fish the old keys out his non-updated console, updated consoles will still run his code.

    Unless Sony want to re-master everything released to date with new keys and recall everybody's game discs they're not going to fix the problem...

    The only way to do this right is patch the problem properly in the next update and not make a fuss about it. Unfortunately for Sony they didn't.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 16:34

  • vizzini #110 2 years ago

    @Dan234
    “Doesn't work like that, old games still have their old keys and the updated console must still recognise them. If Mr. Hotz manages to fish the old keys out his non-updated console, updated consoles will still run his code.”

    The discs will have unique integrity check codes (just like distro downloads do) and will be part of a list of software that can run against the old keys. But the system will block firmware updates that are signed with the old keys, so gaining control with old keysl shouldn't be viable on updated systems.

  • Dan234 #111 2 years ago

    @vizzini:

    Firmware updates are blocked, but does it really matter, though? Integrity checks are generally sums and aren't usually run over the whole disc as it'd take an age. You'll be able to run something in GameOS with the old keys, you just need to find another security hole in GameOS (see Geohot's latest screenshot)...

  • Retroid #112 2 years ago

    @EvilBob_leeds

    Ken? Ken Kutaragi?

    The bloke who was 'promoted out of the way' a few years back? I think all his scheming and planning is all about office furniture these days.

  • Kaminari #113 2 years ago

    No fucking way in Hell I'm gonna reformat my 320 GB hard drive.

  • streetjo1 #114 2 years ago

    April Fools..

  • Sunyavadin #115 2 years ago

    I've always told - PS3 will never be hacked to run pirated games. That's all.

    And this is why it'll never enjoy the success of PS1 and PS2.

    I don't think I know a single individual who ever bought a legitimate PS game, they all came in regular CD cases with inkjet printed covers from market stalls. As a result they got market dominance in no time at all. Everyone wanted a PS because you could get any game you wanted for a fiver!

  • smelly #116 2 years ago

    @Tangled : But they didnt tell me how? (unless i missed it)

  • smelly #117 2 years ago

    okay i was wrong.. seems that vizzini uses it... that's 2 people in a thread of 126 comments moaning about it.

  • devilmyarse #118 2 years ago

    Right to stop the arguing can everybody who uses PS3 linux feature rate this post up?

    +1 from me but I can't rate my own posts. I use it with the excellent ZeroGame Project for essentially a Maximus Arcade type frontend to Wahcade. Very fun.

    Oh very funny. How mature... I seriously have doubts at the maturity of this community.
    Edited by 2 at 30/03/10 @ 16:26

  • devilmyarse #119 2 years ago

    Right to stop the arguing can everybody who doesn't use the PS3 linux feature rate this post down?

  • Bigglesworth #120 2 years ago

    @Sunyavadin
    Sad but probably true.

    On the other hand, would you be happy if the PS3 launched at, say, £1200, and still sold now for £700, if you could easily run cracked games on it? I'm guessing at the numbers, but the point being that things were different when platform holders actually made money off the consoles they sold, and the software came as an added bonus.

  • djed #121 2 years ago

    I use it (to gain haccess to hypervisor).

  • Vyggo #122 2 years ago

    If this is an April Fools joke then it's a really, really bad one. It's not particularly ludicrous or funny. Then again, doing a really good april fools joke is pretty hard.

  • Pablo2k5 #123 2 years ago

    @ doulema You said... "Its funny reading from everyone that Sony is doing the right thing. I guess no one is aware of his rights as consumer on his own products or people are generally too naive nowadays."

    Erm, no. We understand our rights, it's just that 99.9% of people don't give a shit.

  • oupe #124 2 years ago

    Why the hate and rate down if I don't want to update my firmware so I can run homebrew software on my PS3? I use it on my xbox1 to run old school emus and xbox media center.

  • busboy33 #125 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo:

    "Also, we seem far too quick to use the word 'lie', when in fact the phrase 'changed your mind for very good reasons that could not have been forseen' is rather more suitable."

    What makes it more suitable than lie?

    As I linked to before, Sony was asked about ditching OtherOS specifically because of the jailbreak attempt. The situation didn't change from when they were asked the question to now -- it changed from launch to now, certainly, but its highly unlikely it changed from the beginning of the month to now.

    That only leaves a couple of possibilities:

    a) The person who provided the quote in the link from my earlier comment ("Sony Management";) had absolutely no idea what they were talknig about, and didn't bother to check the facts before making blanket statements. "Halo coming to PS3? Absolutely! Use your PS3 to travel thru time? Part of the next firmware update!" It would be like Kevin Butler was actually real. Maybe that's not 'lying" . . . but what does it say about respecting their customers? Just say any random crap to the idiots. Pat them on the head, tell them they're a good boy, give them a treat, then forget about it. It doesn't matter what we say.
    Maybe that's not "lying" . . . but it is certainly (to me at least) far more morally condemnable than "changed your mind for good reasons".

    b) They flat-out lied. They knew it was a bogus statement when they made it. In that case . . . well, it's lying. Pure and simple. "changed your mind for good reasons" doesn't change the situation. Yeah baby, I lied when I said I didn't sleep with your sister, but that was becasue I didn't want you to be mad. See? I had a good reason!
    So lying's only bad if you have a bad reason to do it? W. Bush had a good reason (in his mind) to lie America and GB into the Iraqi War . . .so its totally okay, right?

    The issue isn't that the stance changed (OtherOS to no OtherOS). The issue is how Sony handled the change in circumstances (GeoHolt's crack). They worked toward remoning OtherOS -- simplest and easiest solution for Sony, and although it will annoy their customers that use it that's a small number of people so too bad for them. But while they were doing that . . . they lied. I just don't see any other possible interpretation.
    Its good that they lied, they should have lied, they had to lie . . . . may any or all of those statements are true. But it doesn't change a lie into something else. Its still a lie.



    @kosigan:
    Yeah, I understand that a corporation isn't a single person . . . but corporations receive blame as one entity.
    Example? Microsoft. How could aybody blame them for RRoD? After all, its not like MS is a single person -- must simply have been a series of miscommunications between people. Oops. So nobody's going to "blame" MS for RRoD, because that just wouldn't be fair . . . right? I'm glad THAT will never happen again.
    Another? Toyota. Here in the States, they are in hot water for how they are handling the "sticky accelerator" problem. Not as much for the actual problem as for their "No, no, everything is fine" lying to everybody about it. Can't blame them, right? After all, the guy giving answers may have just simply been guessing -- no way he could have known what the engineers knew when he said that.
    This same logic would apply to governments, wouldn't it? After all, its not a single person. As I said above, certainly then nobody can get mad about any lies leading to the Iraq war -- our governments just did what they had to do, and if they said things that turned out to be utrue maybe they just had poor internal communication.
    I don't buy that. If spokesman Bob doesn't know what they are talking about . . . then spokesman Bob should shut the hell up and/or find out from the person or people who DO know.

    "Having said that, my preferred approach would have been to disable it for everybody who's not actually using it in the first instance, then give a longer notice period of removing it for everyone else."
    Agreed 10,000%. To me, one of the most shocking things about how Sony is handling this is how little info and time they are giving to those who will be affected. Just look at the comments in this thread -- will the 10 Gig partition be reclaimed, or does the drive need to be re-formatted? People who will be affected don't know what the details are, and they have little to no time to figure it out. This is happening in about 48 hours (they gave what, 72 hours notice?) -- people need to secure their data, possibly re-format drives, etc.
    And if you don't frequet games sites on the InterTubes . . . well, the "do you want this update?" notice on the PS3 had damn well better make explicitly clear what is about to happen (no buried in legalese jargon 6 paragraphs down), or there are going to be some people who accept the OS not realizing they just lost everything in that partition (Sony said itas irretreivable once the update is installed).

    As you said, the goal of any company is to make money. Part of that is good customer relations. If people think you're going to screw them over, they are less likely to do buisness with you . . . and it becomes harder for you to make money. Would doing it your suggested way cost more than the goodwill it would engender (or at least less badwill)? Maybe. But that doesn't change a dick move into something Mother Teresa would do.
    Both you and Kangarootoo seem to be confusing two different things -- did Sony have a reason to do this (probably), and is Sony treating their customers like shit (probably)? Both statements can be true at the same time. The first doesn't suddenly make the second disappear. I may have a good reason to hit you . . . but that doesn't mean I didn't hit you. Taking that metaphor further, you attack me in a bar and I defend myself. I had good reason to act. Now I can hit you and knock you out . . . or I can kick you in the balls then repeatedly stomp on your face and smash all your teeth. In both cases, the "justification" is the same, but the "action" isn't viewed identically by the onlookers. One is "he did what he had to do, what a shame" and the other is "Jesus Christ! You bastard!"

    I'm not down on Sony for removing the OtherOS feature. I'm against pircy, and while the solution is certainly draconian, it also certainly makes sure that particular flaw in security is good and closed (no "re-hacking" the same hole next week, ala PSP hacks). What I'm accusing them of is doing what they are doing in an EXTREMELY consumer-unfriendly manner. Even if you think Sony didn't lie about it . . . they are treating their customers like dirt, and that's a bad move.

  • Dr_Wadd #126 2 years ago

    While I concede that the removal of the OtherOS option is going to affect the minority of users, everyone else should be just as worried as this will potentially set a dangerous precendent. If this stands, it effectively validates the clause in the EULA that states that Sony can remove functionality at any time. You could run with the argument that the PS3's ability to stream media facilitates and encourages movie piracy, which Sony then use as an excuse to remove media streaming. Maybe I`m being paranoid, but my feeling is that this sort of corporate nonsense needs to be nipped in the bud as early as possible.

  • George-Roper #127 2 years ago

    Surely this is an early April Fools joke?

    Install Other OS is a key feature of the older PS3s and many, like me, will have bought one with that feature being high on the list.

    How can this be legal? It's akin to Microsoft hacking out the ability for their OSs to access a network. You can still use the OS, but just in a gimped, massively crippled way but if you bought the OS on the basis of being able to access a network, that has to be an illegal move.

    I'm calling early April Fools joke.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 20:43

  • icematt12 #128 2 years ago

    I kind of believe this is an april fools joke. To my reckoning, the latest update available is 3.15 (thats the recent one on uk.playstation.com) so the version number doesn't make sense. Searches of 3.20 has only reulted in a rumour of it having 3D capabilities, no mention of it actually being released. PS3 developed YLOD symptoms today, think it's terminal and I can't check myslef to see the latest version installed and see if any voluntary one is available. I would think 3.20 as needed to sign into PSN though.

    Then there is the identity of the person who posted this on the blog, Charlotte panther the head of PR. Didn't seem right to me, considering James Thorpe has a history of announcing and detailing updates. She only has one other post on the blog, from August detailing the Blog and the recruitment of someone in charge of it.

    In short, I believe it could be a hoax and waiting to see what indeed happens the 1st of April.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 20:49

  • dfish #129 2 years ago

    linux was gimped without RSX access, running an OS without a GPU and only 256MB is not worth lamenting about.

  • ChuckNorris #130 2 years ago

    @busboy33
    Say you fall in love. You tell that person that you will love her/him forever. In the year that follows that person turns out to be a total douche. You change your mind about the forever part.
    Does that make you a liar or did you simply adapt to the new situation? Or are you going to act moraly superior, stick to your guns, and make the biggest mistake of your life?

    I know that the analogy is ridiculous but you are telling yourself that this is way more complicated than it is. Either that, or you're being thick.

  • ChuckNorris #131 2 years ago

    Also, i'm sad that it had to come to this. That feature was great.

  • Killerbee #132 2 years ago

    To those questioning the "legality" of Sony's decision - I can't say I agree with it morally, but the point they'll keep coming back to is that you don't have to upgrade your Firmware. Stick with 3.15 (or whatever number we're on now) and you can carry on using Linux on your PS3 to your heart's content.

    But what they can freely change is the EULA for accessing PSN and for playing future software, and if that EULA is changed to say that you have to have Firmware 3.21 or higher to use the service, then that's what you'll have to have, regardless of the fact it switches off another feature of your PS3.

    Another example would be Microsoft foisting Windows Genuine Advantage on its customers. No one liked the idea of Windows phoning home to tell MS whether your copy was legit or not, and that "feature" wasn't in the original software, but Microsoft decided - for exactly the same reasons Sony are making this move - to make WGA mandatory if you wanted to continue receiving future patches to your copy of Windows. If you didn't like it, you could quite easily have just stuck with your current installation and declined all future updates but accepting WGA was a pre-condition for continuing to receive MS support.

    Personally, I agree with the posters above who say blame the hacker. If everyone played by the rules - and the rules weren't unreasonable - then chances are Sony would have happily left this feature alone, but someone broke the rules and decided to tell the world about it, so I think it's entirely fair, albeit regrettable, for Sony to take this action.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 21:24

  • busboy33 #133 2 years ago

    @ChuckNorris:

    Good example . . . but not factually applicable to the situation because it misses the important last step:

    Say you fall in love with a person. You tell that person that you will love her/him forever. In the year that follows that person turns out to be a total douche. You change your mind about the forever part.
    No lying yet. A change of mind.
    NOW . . .
    You start looking on dating sites for someone else, because you know you're going to dump the douche ASAFP. Your "true love" asks you point blank "are you planning on dumping me?". You reply "Baby, I'd never do that to you ever, I'm committed to our relationship," then go right back to your replacement search.

    The lie isn't changing your mind. The lie is the "Baby, I'd never leave you" when you know damn well you are planning on doing exactly that.

    Sony was asked about getting rid of the OtherOS option earlier this month because of the GeoHolt cracks. I linked to the statement from Sony Management in my first comment -- basically, no, we're not getting rid of it. The only way that isn't a flat lie is if 3 1/2 weeks ago, they were firmly committed to keeping the Other OS, and in less than a month they completely reversed their position, wrote code to replace the feature and block it off, tested it, and are getting ready for an immediate release. If that's not true . . . then "as of March 2010 we are committed to not removing the OtherOS feature and we're not going to do it" was a lie.

  • Dr_Wadd #134 2 years ago

    @ Killerbee

    The difference here is that WGA is only an issue if you are using pirated software. While it may not be an ideal solution to the issue of software piracy, for legitimate users the end result is negligble and they can still do everything they could do before. The analogy would only hold true if WGA also disabled key features in Windows such as Media Player.

  • jefranklin18 #135 2 years ago

    I would like to see a comparison of PS3 sales to number of OS installs; maybe Sony could provide this based on the number of versions of the OS have been downloaded.

    Would be an interesting comparison to the signal-to-noise ratio of posts on various message boards on the internet about this.

  • EvilBob_leeds #136 2 years ago

    @retroid

    That's what you think. Ken's still in charge; he's like a Japanese Blofeld.

    @busboy33

    I linked to the statement from Sony Management in my first comment

    No you didn't. You linked to a statement containing a dated quote in it from "Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:58 -0700". After said quote there is the text

    "Please understand that in my position as PS3-Linux maintainer I can really only provide users with technical support for Linux and the LV1 hcall interface.

    The text above was provided to me by SCE management. If you have any questions regarding it or any other feature of the PS3 please contact the Playstation Customer Support in your country"

    So all you've really proved that in your clamour to run Sony down you didn't actually bother to read your sources properly. This was a dev quoting something then saying "er.. this was what I was told 6 months ago... I'd contact the PR department", not a smoking gun. Not even a lukewarm gun.

    Even if this where not the case your argument is still a load of old crap - on Mr Hotz blog you can see he made some kind of major breakthrough 11 days ago http://ge ohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/03/cu... - So things have most definately changed since this Sony Linux dev emailed whoever.

    Having worked in development for a big-ish UK software firm (~800 employees) for the last couple of years, the idea of management bellends who don't know one end of a compiler from the other making rash decisions without consulting anyone in the know doesn't sound that surprising. Neither does the idea that one of the Dev's involved in the project didn't know his project was getting canned until the last minute. It's not a conspiracy, it's just the way these things can happen.
    Edited by 1 at 29/03/10 @ 22:43

  • Connobi #137 2 years ago

    Lol, its not like sony to promise sumthing & then as time goes by, screw over late adopters, is it? ;o)

  • freakzilla #138 2 years ago

    I blame geohot. Sony were obviously really scared of the pirates; PSP's slow demise was mainly due to piracy. 50m+ PSPs yet no games competing on the sales charts.

  • dfish #139 2 years ago

    the cost of removing a gimped version of linux versus the damage done to the games industry if they don't means the decision is straightforward and fair. if anyone should be prosecuted its geohot for releasing to the public a hack for the PS3 during its lifecycle, he could have proved it by other means and released it after the lifecycle to minimise damage to developers.

  • George-Roper #140 2 years ago

    I blame geohot. Sony were obviously really scared of the pirates; PSP's slow demise was mainly due to piracy. 50m+ PSPs yet no games competing on the sales charts.

    Sorry, there's just no way that that many buyers of PSPs are straight-up pirates. Sure, there will be a percentage but not enough to make so much of a difference that none of the games chart. Hell, PC piracy and even 360 piracy are rampant but those formats still continue to chart on a regular basis.

    The piss-poor catalogue of games is what killed it. Face it, they were FAR and away overpriced and for the most part, well, shit. My experience was that they were the equivalent of Wii shovelware.

  • ChuckNorris #141 2 years ago

    @busboy33

    Seems like you're not only being thick, but also full of shit. Sorry for being harsh but you have it coming for acting like a sneaky troll.

  • dfish #142 2 years ago

    @georgw Roper
    seriously you think that after
    Metal Gear portable ops, 2 Locorocos, God of War Chains of Olympus, Echochrome, 2 Patapons, Wipeout Pulse + Pure, Silent hill Origins, Exit 1+2, Crush, Lumines, Killzone liberation, Pursuit Force, 2 Syphon Filters,2 Ridge Racers, Echoshift, Motorstorm Arctic edge, Resistance retribution, Field Commander, 3 Grand Theft Autos, Riviera, Half minute hero, Valkyrie Profile Lenneth,Jak and Daxter the lost frontier, Socom Fireteam Bravo 1-3, Socom tactical strike, Monster Hunter, 2 Metal gear acids, Twisted Metal, Castlevania dracula x chronicles, Daxter, Afterburner,2 Disgaea, Jeanne D'arc, Final Fantasy Tactics, Downstream Panic, Gitaroo Man lives, me and my katamari, Gran turismo portable, ratchet and clank + secret agent clank, Every extend extra, Mercury meltdown, Gripshift
    plus excellent portable renditions of LittleBigplanet, tekken, Outrun, football manager handheld, sega rally, test drive umlimited (massive open world + infrastructure multiplayer), crazy taxi, everybodys golf, silent hill shattered memories, metal slug, virtua tennis, powerstone collection, worms, lemmings, tomb raider, streetfighter 3, fat princess
    so much for the piss-poor catalogue theory.
    Edited by 3 at 30/03/10 @ 02:42

  • ChuckNorris #143 2 years ago

    @dfish

    Never looked through the catalogue properly. Not too shabby. Certainly not piss-poor but it does lack its icons. Games that define the psp. Maybe that has something to with the sales beside piracy?

  • dfish #144 2 years ago

    @chuck norris
    i'm not arguing that the psp wouldn't still be in last place since the tech began too feel old as next gen got good but given the amount of hardware out there the software sales seem too poor in comparison. The games which define the platform are the ones which offer bite-size gameplay of there console big brothers. you cant play PES ps3 on a bus-stop.
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/10 @ 02:36

  • 3william56 #145 2 years ago

    Someone bought six hundred quid's worth of launch era PS3 just to run a gimped version of Linux via a joypad???
    O_O

    The Install Other OS feature *was* something to get excited about at launch, as it had the *potential* for some interesting applications, and extension of the living room functionality of the PS3 into PC territory. But the bottom line is that those aplications never materialised, and only the most dedicated / geeky have ever used it (and you can replicate most of those uses easily with other systems easier and cheaper). So if it's a pirate back door (or, possibly more importantly, what about a malware / virus entry point if GeoHot ever got a fully software version of the hack running?), big deal if it gets closed for the majority - no loss - probably keeps prices low and devs in business.

    /laughs at all the armchair lawyers off to sue Sony for a function they never used.

  • dave.k #146 2 years ago

    The worst thing is, it's actually impossible to play a PS3 game through the PS3 Linux OS. Sony have only removed this feature to prevent hackers from accessing all RAM while Linux is loaded.

    Well, it's too late for that. Hackers have the access. An update will not stop that.

    So why are Sony still going ahead with it? I have no idea. There's no logical explanation for it. It prevents nothing, other than legitimate users trying to use Linux and buy PSN games. It's all rather befuddling.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #147 2 years ago

    The whole OtherOS business has just been a complete shambles. If Sony hadn't locked the GPU in the first place, and made the PS3 a less effective Linux machine than a soft-modded Xbox 1, then most of this hacking wouldn't have been necessary.

    Did they really think hordes of high-quality Linux games would appear for free (or for sale with no license money going to Sony) and scupper the market for PS3's own games? Emulators (which mostly run on PS3 linux anyway) and ports of iD's engines aside, it's not at if there's much homebrew to speak of that runs on softmodded Xbox1s or Wii that would tempt gamers away from main games for too long. It's mostly useful for media players, and modern media players need access to graphics harware that Sony denied them.

    I was quite concerned when they said they were removing Linux support, and was looking at buying one of the last of the line of PS3 Phats, but then when I looked it all up on the internet and found everyone considered it useless, I didn't bother. Just as well I didn't now, I suppose.
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/10 @ 10:40

  • vizzini #148 2 years ago

    @3willians56
    “The Install Other OS feature *was* something to get excited about at launch, as it had the *potential* for some interesting applications, and extension of the living room functionality of the PS3 into PC territory. But the bottom line is that those aplications never materialised, and only the most dedicated / geeky have ever used it (and you can replicate most of those uses easily with other systems easier and cheaper).“

    There is nothing geeky about earning amazing money in the computer industry; and you have completely missed the point about the OtherOS feature. You don't require graphics acceleration to make use of a 2-way Power5 based CPU system with gigabit ethernet, for many useful business tasks like file serving, database serving or email serving.

    Buying a system to learn Cell programming is most certainly not as cheap as the PC system you probably running and was worth the cost of the PS3 on its' own.

    OpenGL is a client/server cross platform graphics technology and ps3 Linux will allow you to sit at a cheap Celeron PC running Linux and use it's OpenGL graphics accelerator, while you remote login to the ps3 (over fast ethernet); where you will have access to both GPU accleration and the awesome capabilities of the Cell (to use the Cell SDK); yes it is a development platform, but it sure beats the cost of all other options to do this.


    @dave.k
    "Well, it's too late for that. Hackers have the access. An update will not stop that. "

    How did you reach that conclusion? As I understand the update would be the equivalent of Sony replacing the encrypted password file on a Unix box, while removing the user account that the hacker gained access to the old password file with. Dan234 and myself, discussed this issue back at comment #118, #119.

  • KayJay #149 2 years ago

    "/laughs at all the armchair lawyers off to sue Sony for a function they never used."
    This, like a million times.
    4 page of people moaning like little girls. I never used it, you never used it and you are never going to use it (No choice now :-)).

    Whats the point of supporting or offering something nobody used. And if it helps the PS3 stay legit without the bottom feeding pirate scum getting their way it suits me.

    Homebrew my arse!!!

  • Felwyn #150 2 years ago

    3william56 "Someone bought six hundred quid's worth of launch era PS3 just to run a gimped version of Linux via a joypad???
    O_O"

    Flawless Victory

  • Retroid #151 2 years ago

    EvilBob_leeds: "That's what you think. Ken's still in charge; he's like a Japanese Blofeld."

    :D

    I can see him now, stroking an Aibo and hatching schemes diabolical in their simplicity!

  • BritishBlue1 #152 2 years ago

    "That's not the same thing at all. It didn't take any features away from legitimate customers and it was only implemented because every release of Windows was already being pirated on a massive scale."

    @teh9192

    So...what are you saying? That it's better to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted?
    Given how the PSP has been hacked and pirated within an inch of it's life I don't find it surprising that Sony have come down so heavy handed. It is ridiculous Sony have stripped out yet another feature (all be it, one that was hardly used) but the hackers have them running scared. *shrugs* There's not much we can do about it.

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #153 2 years ago

    If Sony made cars:

    Customer:~ I've brought my car in for a service.

    Sony Garage:~ Sir, we have recently realised that thieves can break in through the windows and locks of a car. Therefore, if you want to continue having your car serviced by us - we are going to have to replace the windows and locks with stainless steel plates. In fact, I think it's probably safer to nuke your car from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/10 @ 18:35

  • coolbritannia #154 2 years ago

    The longer the PS3 goes on, the more similar it gets to the 360.

  • dfish #155 2 years ago

    prophetic words coolbritannia; there's probably a good reason xbox doesn't have a browser;) why have an attack vector if you dont need it.

  • coolbritannia #156 2 years ago

    so rate me, before I get destroyed by the sony defence force! lol

  • George-Roper #157 2 years ago

    @dfish

    seriously you think that after
    Metal Gear portable ops, 2 Locorocos, God of War Chains of Olympus, Echochrome, 2 Patapons, Wipeout Pulse + Pure, Silent hill Origins, Exit 1+2, Crush, Lumines, Killzone liberation, Pursuit Force, 2 Syphon Filters,2 Ridge Racers, Echoshift, Motorstorm Arctic edge, Resistance retribution, Field Commander, 3 Grand Theft Autos, Riviera, Half minute hero, Valkyrie Profile Lenneth,Jak and Daxter the lost frontier, Socom Fireteam Bravo 1-3, Socom tactical strike, Monster Hunter, 2 Metal gear acids, Twisted Metal, Castlevania dracula x chronicles, Daxter, Afterburner,2 Disgaea, Jeanne D'arc, Final Fantasy Tactics, Downstream Panic, Gitaroo Man lives, me and my katamari, Gran turismo portable, ratchet and clank + secret agent clank, Every extend extra, Mercury meltdown, Gripshift

    plus excellent portable renditions of LittleBigplanet, tekken, Outrun, football manager handheld, sega rally, test drive umlimited (massive open world + infrastructure multiplayer), crazy taxi, everybodys golf, silent hill shattered memories, metal slug, virtua tennis, powerstone collection, worms, lemmings, tomb raider, streetfighter 3, fat princess

    so much for the piss-poor catalogue theory.

    I think that this list makes zero impact on me, even purely as a gamer. I've owned pretty much all consoles from the last 20 years, including portables and yet the PSP at no stage had anything remotely interesting in it. Perhaps because I already had superior versions of the games, on better platforms? That and the fact that the PSP was the springboard from which Sony hoped to dominate the mobile movie marked with UMDs and I had zero intention of ever buying UMD movies?

    Even if it did have a sufficient amount of attractive, original titles they were all consistently prohibitively priced considering the hugely reduced development costs inherent in the platform. I took exception to the fact that it would cost the same to buy a PSP game as it would to buy a 360 game. Sony did themselves no favours in this regard.

    Piracy did not kill the PSP. Sony did.

    Plenty of other platforms suffer from piracy and continue to do incredibly well. Sony built their console empire on the back of one of the biggest sufferers of piracy in console history, the PS1.

  • drumbaby #158 2 years ago

    Blame the twot/s who decided to hack the PS3 OS, I guess.

    Why would any company continue to support a feature, even a promised one, that then opens their platform up to piracy in lieu of this tampering? To stop a few idiotic people saying 'liar liar pants on fire' on a few silly forums?

  • coolbritannia #159 2 years ago

    No, blame Sony. Like the man says towards the end, it's like Apple pulling web browsing because hackers found an exploit, it's a feature they sold the system on. One gamer, commenting on Sony's blog post, said: "The funny thing about this is that users that legally enjoy this feature will suffer its loss and the hackers will find some way to have the update plus the feature."

    Another said: "This is so stupid. I spent $500 on this system to be able to use whatever features it came with. Preventing hackers is one thing, but taking away a feature that I paid for is another."

    Geohot, also known as George Hotz, gained notoriety for unlocking Apple's iPhone as a teenager.

    He has said that he will work on a method to bypass the new update and allow gamers to retain the ability to install other operating systems.

    "This is about more than this feature right now," he wrote in his blog. "It's about whether these companies have the right to take away advertised features from a product you purchased.

    "Imagine if an exploit were found in Safari on the iPhone, but instead of fixing it, Apple decides to pull web browsing altogether."

  • coolbritannia #160 2 years ago

    i must agree the psp always left me cold. it was just too lacking in innovation to appeal to the ds owner in me.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #161 2 years ago

    This is only a blow to the fanboys who big up this feature. And that's mostly in the past now anyway.


  • vizzini #162 2 years ago

    Hotz's argument of giving people what they paid for demonstrates that he might need better social reasoning skills, than electrical engineering or programming skills now.

    Did I pay for a Sony Zego or PS3 devkit with a usable RSX on Linux?

    No

    Did I pay for a PS3 games console, that would also allow Cell development to work on Linux distros?

    Yes

    His actions are similar to stealing, even if he only does this task for himself; the features he was offered with the PS3 fat are directly proportional to the price point paid.

    Technology of the PS3's capabilities requires companies to “flip switches” on devkits to safely recover the enormous high production & R&D costs that go in to pushing consumer electronics forward.

    As an electrical engineer he must understand that his actions are actually damaging all company's future technology, as it is becoming an even higher risk field (with his type of exploits) and investors/businesses are all becoming very risk adverse in the world's current financial climate.

    If he really cares about the OtherOS users; his first action should be to cease and desist.

  • George-Roper #163 2 years ago

    This is only a blow to the fanboys who big up this feature. And that's mostly in the past now anyway.

    Until Sony remove media streaming. Or web-browsing. Or any number of other features that are in the console now but they feel at some point down the line is no longer in their interests.

    See, it's setting a precedent. Sure, OtherOS is probably very minor for a large amount of PS3 owners, so no big deal at the moment. But what if Sony decide in 6 months that media streaming is being used predominantly by movie downloaders, thus they feel is hurting Sony Pictures revenue? Would it still be 'ok' for them to remove a feature from the product, when that feature is more widespread in use?

  • EvilBob_leeds #164 2 years ago

    @ George Roper You've got superior versions of Locoroco, Patapon and half minute hero? Where did you get then from then?

    @Cool britannia No, that would be a shit analogy. OherOS is a seldom used function on some older PS3s, whereas even the crappiest mobile phone has a web browser. Apples business model is not based around the iPhone being a loss leader, with profit being reliant on Software sales.

    Meanwhile, yesterday, in Open source related news, Slashdot covered a story about MS trying to lobby EU politicians into moving away from open standards, for the good of Microsoft, and, ultimately, the detriment of everyone else. Meanwhile, on Eurogamer whiny tits who don't own a PS3 try to spin a non-event into the PR disaster of the century. Ho hum.
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/10 @ 00:15

  • ukgamer #165 2 years ago

    This is elementary school teacher shit right here. You can't punish 30mil people because one person abuses the system. Nice going Sony.

  • George-Roper #166 2 years ago

    @ George Roper You've got superior versions of Locoroco, Patapon and half minute hero? Where did you get then from then?

    Fuck!

    /rushes out to buy a PSP Go! I mean three..count 'em, three games make it all worthwhile!

  • vizzini #167 2 years ago

    I certainly don't want to lose this particular feature, and am not looking forward to the price tag of an alternative Cell BE dev solution.

    But if this is what they have to do, to protect the livelihoods all Ps3 games industry staff(including eurogamer); then so be it.

    If it happens, I will want to blame Sony; but sadly they are the people that gave me a great product at a subsidized cost, so I'll just take the hit.

  • EvilBob_leeds #168 2 years ago

    Yeah. You caught me. They weren't just 3 good psp games I named off the top my head. They're all the good PSP games that there have ever been. You're so smart George Roper. You're like Sherlock Holmes only called George Roper.
    Edited by 3 at 30/03/10 @ 23:50

  • gandhimaster #169 2 years ago

    didnt the tech people break down the hack by geohot and decide that PS3's security features would prevent any attack even with this back door entry point?

    anyhow, Sony have to be seen to be proactive in stopping these robbing bastards so fair play to them, its a no win situation for them tho as people on here are proving.

    if they do nothing then they get shit, and by attempting to protect themselves they get shit too.

    i dont see what else they could have done really.



  • coolbritannia #170 2 years ago

    @ Evilbob, 'Meanwhile, on Eurogamer whiny tits who don't own a PS3 try to spin a non-event into the PR disaster of the century. Ho hum' - It's working, it's the most read story on BBC news right now. Sony and PR just don't go hand in hand.

  • George-Roper #171 2 years ago

    Yeah. You caught me. They weren't just 3 good psp games I named off the top my head. They're all the good PSP games that there have ever been. You're so smart George Roper. You're like Sherlock Holmes only called George Roper.

    Yeah, because you didn't just reel off what you thought were 3 good reasons to own a PSP, did you...

    /rolleyes

    Add another 3 on top. No, in fact add another 6 on top. It still won't make a difference. It still won't justify the PSP as a solid standalone gaming platform.

    Sure, there are a few original titles there no doubt. A few original titles do not make a platform a success, though and that's where it went wrong. A large percentage of PSP titles were either cut-down spin-offs of multi-plat or PS3 excl titles or just pure shovelware, all slapped with a price tag way above what would have been normal. Even now, with PSP Go! on the PSN the cost of games is just way overboard.

  • devilmyarse #172 2 years ago

    The PSPGO is currently immune to piracy. Why isn't that a success then? If by some miracle the lack of piracy instantly guarantees success then the N64 should have been a total run-away success right?

  • dfish #173 2 years ago

    @george roper
    the psp is a natural fit for certain genres like the rhythm action genre (patapon,beats) also the platform/puzzle genre (echochrome,exit,locoroco,practical IQ,) and the puzzle genre(lumines,n+), even strategy (disgaea,FF tactics,football manager) these are games i wouldn't give the time of day on a home console because they are crude graphically and dont seem appropriate or necessary for the big screen but are best suited for bite size gaming away from home. In Killzone liberation they have introduced a new audience to the long lost isometric topdown shooter. Of course the PSP's biggest strength is that its the best platform(DPAD controls + buttons) for portable renditions of quick play home console titles. Having Fifa or Wipeout HD , GT at home is no use when you are at your local dental surgery trying to take your mind off impending pain.

    @devilmyarse
    PSPGo is selling slowly because most PSP owners like myself are simply not prepared to buy our games twice, wheareas newcomers to the platform see it as old tech.
    Edited by 4 at 31/03/10 @ 02:25

  • George-Roper #174 2 years ago

    @dfish

    the psp is a natural fit for certain genres like the rhythm action genre (patapon,beats) also the platform/puzzle genre (echochrome,exit,locoroco,practical IQ,) and the puzzle genre(lumines,n+), even strategy (disgaea,FF tactics,football manager) these are games i wouldn't give the time of day on a home console because they are crude graphically and dont seem appropriate or necessary for the big screen but are best suited for bite size gaming away from home. In Killzone liberation they have introduced a new audience to the long lost isometric topdown shooter. Of course the PSP's biggest strength is that its the best platform(DPAD controls + buttons) for portable renditions of quick play home console titles. Having Fifa or Wipeout HD , GT at home is no use when you are at your local dental surgery trying to take your mind off impending pain.

    Doesn't matter what the 'fit' is, if Sony or 3rd parties don't produce enough good content at the right cost, it will tank. And it has.

    We're not discussing this from a POV where PSP is dominant in it's respective market, are we? There's a reason for that and it's not 100% down to piracy, by a long way.

  • dfish #175 2 years ago

    @ George Roper
    no in one of my earlier posts i never argued PSP would be anything other than last place next to the DS it doesnt have that younger segment of the market to sustain it like the DS and because its first party cant produce titles oriented to that age. This is why the DS has weathered piracy: kids (under 10) and a couple of oldies aswell(Brain Training):p diversifying the market to the non- R4 aware has saved its ass.
    Edited by 3 at 31/03/10 @ 19:40

  • farlander #176 2 years ago

    Thank god I don't have any other Sony products at home! I never liked the way they treated their customers (hell, they have an "F" rating on Better Business Bureau web site!), and I kinda wish I never bought the PS3 either. I can't think of any other company so disrespectful of its customers. Sony's PR job is nothing short of insulting to any intelligent person.