Gran Turismo 5: Installation Analysis

How it works and why it should be better.

Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5 is probably the biggest, most content-rich racing game ever made for console. How the PS3 was going to handle this phenomenal amount of gameplay was always going to be an issue. Last week's revelation of a 40-minute, 6.5GB install, swiftly followed by an official statement from Sony adding context and explanation to the raw numbers, is only really the tip of the iceberg.

Let's talk installation timings. Polyphony Digital warns you on selecting the install that it can take around 50 minutes to complete. Last week's unofficial source says that his timing was 10 minutes faster than that, so we decided to put it to the test using our main retail PS3 - a 60GB launch NTSC model still sporting its original HDD, running a final PAL copy of the game. Bearing in mind the generational leap in hard drive speeds in the four years since this SKU launched, we can safely assume that this probably a worst-case scenario for the test. Update: a very well-respected PS3 developer just contacted us to say that this is not necessarily the case, citing streaming issues they experienced with later "fat" PS3s that shipped with slower HDDs than the original launch model...

Thanks to the wonder of time-lapse video, you can check out our overall timing here. Why the video? Well, note the way that the progress bar works - its reading is in no way indicative of how much longer you'll actually be waiting at any given point. The chances are it is tied into the number of files it is processing as opposed to the time taken in transferring them, hence the uneven timing. This video covers the 1.01 patch install, which adds an approximate time to completion - the accuracy of which is somewhat amusing.

Almost three quarters of an hour's worth of GT5 install time condensed into 30 seconds.

So, a mammoth 42 minutes in total for us then - a new record, in fact. Digital Foundry readers with particularly excellent memories will recall our PS3 Slim review, where our split-screen comparison time-lapse revealed that the newer PS3 model installed the infamous Devil May Cry 4 a hell of a lot faster than our older model. It's safe to say that you'll see exactly the same thing with GT5.

We took a peek at our PS3's hard drive and found that the game selectively de-archives data from a mammoth 12GB volume on the BD, and extracts a multitude of tiny, individual files and stores them on the hard drive. This involves a remarkable amount of movement for the head on the drive, and on an HDD as old our launch model's, this causes a significant amount of seek time.

If you're running an older machine, now might be the time to pick up a replacement - 640GB is the price-per-gig sweet spot at the moment. Higher-density platters, probably more onboard cache - it should speed up your system significantly, not to mention providing a vast amount of additional storage.

The installation of GT5 is so fundamental to the game that it actually gets its own sub-menu in the options screen. Here are a couple of grabs to illustrate. Intriguingly there's actually an option for querying the hard drive and getting an exact figure on how much space GT5 is consuming, and there is even a file recovery options should the system files become corrupt.

It's safe to say that Polyphony Digital takes the installation business seriously, then. However, you can't help but feel that the implementation is really rather poor. Even with 6.5GB of game installation completed after 42 minutes, the game keeps on installing. Preview a new car and the game needs to load the data. Access a new game mode and it needs to be installed. It slows the pace of the game down and compromises the user-friendliness of what is a lovely-looking menu system.

Upon selecting an option, sometimes the screen goes dark with the "Installing..." nag in the bottom-right and all that happens moments later is that a progress bar appears! And that progress bar, once again, doesn't seem to bear much relation to the amount of time the loading takes. Even when you've selected your car and track and are waiting for the race to begin yet more background installing can take place - presumably here any uncached opponent cars are being added to HDD.

However, there is no doubt whatsoever that the install helps matters significantly. Here's a video of the very first time we loaded the game - without the install. System files are created. Menu background scenes are installed. Cars cache to the HDD as we attempt to preview them. And then the prolonged wait kicks in as our chosen circuit installs and loads. At this point we cut in the equivalent footage post-install for a split-screen head-to-head.

We're well into the race here before the non-installed game even gets us to the race start screen: indeed, there's a 40-second difference between the two loading times. In this example, installing cuts our loading times in half.

A quick look at GT5's dynamic install system in operation - note the 'Installing' prompt's continual appearance in the bottom right. Also included is a race loading head-to-head: install vs. no install.

If the size or time-scale of the install puts you off, Sony rightly points out that you can play GT5 without installing the game data and that only a minimal amount of leftover space on your HDD is actually required to get up and running. However, it is noteworthy that with the 1.01 patch update, the game brings up a prompt strongly recommending that you carry out the optional install.

It's worth listening to the advice, because the fact is that the background dynamic install is almost painfully slow at times - in our test, an uncached track with uncached cars took over 80 seconds to load. True, that loading time will be cut down considerably the next time the track is accessed, but surely after the race, the chances are you'll be moving onto something new, incurring another prolonged loading experience. The best thing to do in the circumstances really is to set the install running - 42 minutes is just enough time to cram in an episode of a US TV show if you need something to occupy your time in the meanwhile.

For a game where the developer has put so much effort into the installation process, it's really puzzling that there is no full-install option; it's hard to believe that it would not solve all of the problems at a stroke. Once a game mode has been opened up, or a car previewed, it is stored on the HDD and re-accessing it is swift and trouble-free. However, by choosing to install selected data piecemeal to the hard drive, the problem is only mitigated - it's not solved at all and the remaining dynamic installs are still intrusive and annoying.

The issue tends to sort itself out through extended gameplay - presumably as the HDD cache begins to fill based on your activities. A complete install would obviously take much longer than the existing 40-50 minutes, but it would ensure a better experience right from the get-go.

In many ways, Gran Turismo 5 is a magnificent game. The sheer volume of content available is almost bewilderingly vast, and the challenges facing Polyphony in making this work within the confines of the PS3's limited RAM must have been considerable. Our take? The developer's solution is right for the game, but the implementation really should have been a whole lot better...

Comments (48) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Caimbeul #1 2 years ago

    started install. Stated 20 mins remaining. 20 mins later it was 16 mins remaining. After almost 50 mins it said 3 seconds remaing for about 10 minutes....On top of this whenever you load new tracks etc or cars it flashes up installing in the bottom right corner!
    Edited by Caimbeul at 24/11/10 @ 08:13
  • DoctorFouad #2 2 years ago

    intresting article, thanks, I think as you said they sould have proposed a complete install of the game...also technically I am waiting for your technical analysis, especially the shadows problems and gliteches, the 2D trees and shadows and the low res dust particles effects causing problems when viewed th car from its front side (low res particle effects+ high res car models = problems in interaction causing severe alisasing)....

    Honestly I think the PS3 could do a better job, hopefully in GT6 or some later patches in GT5...uncharted 3 will show us the real power of ps3 when pushed to its limits !
    Edited by DoctorFouad at 24/11/10 @ 08:25
  • rprince #3 2 years ago

    After an hour of waiting, and an age sat on "55 second remaining", I cancelled the install. It says I have 6GB or so installed, but also keeps asking me to install. One day I'll find the time to let it.

    I'm surprised you like the user interface.: each menu screen has a load screen! It's dreadful.
  • orangpelupa #4 2 years ago

    <strong>For a game where the developer has put so much effort into the installation process, it's really puzzling that there is no full-install option; it's hard to believe that it would not solve all of the problems at a stroke.</strong>

    hmm, wondering if the game is FULL installed on devkit PS3 / Test PS3. how will the performance compares.
    to see it get the benefit of jaillbroken PS3 or not. GT5 still not executeable on jailbroken ps3, so those with that kind of PS3 still unable to test that.



  • womble #5 2 years ago

    Now now, Richard, you're not supposed to mention 42 minute load times. The usual suspects will accuse you of BIAS.

    Remember, this is a PS3 exclusive. It is supposed to be utter perfection, otherwise the reviewer is an xbot...
  • joe90 #6 2 years ago

    Bloody hell, its like loading a spectrum game all over again each time you do a race..
  • Mkwone #7 2 years ago

    SOunds like when i get home tonight i'll tell in to install then go eat my dinner and watch the one show.
  • TONYgr #8 2 years ago

    It took me exactly 50 minutes on my 60gb pal ps3 including the 133mb patch.But i have changed the hdd to a 250gb one.
  • Ryze #9 2 years ago

    My HDD has less than 500MB of free space. I've delayed my purchase until I get a bigger HDD.
  • Simplex #10 2 years ago

    "a mammoth 12GB volume on the BD"

    The game only weighs 12GB? That's less than Alien vs Predator on PC (and GTAIV, and MW2, for that matter).
  • Beano #11 2 years ago

    This article cover my thought about the install and load speeds pretty well. However my install froze at 99% and was stuck at "23 seconds remaining" for 10 min. I then cancelled the install after 50 min and startet over. After 10-12 min. it finally completed (it didn't have to install everything again). But even after the install I kept getting "installing" messages - but they seem to be less and less now the more I play and menues and tracks are finally loading fast.

    Still a sloppy implemented system - no wonder this game took 5+ years to make... maybe they were waiting for it to load?
  • Fatbobbybob #12 2 years ago

    Nice read Richard. These DF features are a great read and unique on the web. Keep them coming!
  • yegon #13 2 years ago

    So, the load times get better after a while then? I can live with that, although I'd have liked the option to just do one single mammoth 2hr install and be done with it.
  • theonlyix #14 2 years ago

    For a game with this kind of development time and cost - one should be able to expect perfection. WTF has PD been doing all these years??

    Turn 10 still owns the throne. lets hope PD makes a comeback next gen.
  • mcmothercruncher #15 2 years ago

    Interesting article; plus 100 bonus points.

    Use of the phrase "get-go"; minus 101 bonus points.
  • Arwin #16 2 years ago

    I have not pre-installed, and so far apart from some messages when going online to recommend me to install (presumably because they don't want users who have installed to have to wait for those who haven't installed a track), I don't regret it. But I do have a recent Slim now, so that could mean I don't actually have to wait that long.

    It was also interesting to note that as soon as I entered an online lobby it started to install the track in the background, and not long after I could specate the race that was going on. The speed with which you can join to spectate was very impressive by the way.

    There are a lot of interesting things like this going on in the game - I look forward to more analysis like this, much appreciated. :)

  • edhe #17 2 years ago

    Power of the blue ray & convenience of a hard drive in every unit bears fruit, eh?
  • butler` #18 2 years ago

    As a PC and console gamer can I just say: what a fucking joke. Archaic at best, amateur at worse.
  • Darren #19 2 years ago

    Looks like I'll be watching the last episode of my V Blu-ray boxset tonight then (thankfully I have a standalone BD player) while this game installs. 42 minutes is ludicrous for a 6.5 GB install though as I frequently install full Xbox 360 games to the HDD and even the 6.8 GB ones don't take longer than 10 minutes!!! :o
  • SeesThroughAll #20 2 years ago

    Now now, Richard, you're not supposed to mention 42 minute load times. The usual suspects will accuse you of BIAS.

    Remember, this is a PS3 exclusive. It is supposed to be utter perfection, otherwise the reviewer is an xbot...


    And the usual suspects once again win the "lone fanboy" award...
  • jonsaan #21 2 years ago

    This puts me off the game quite a lot to be honest. It's just so clumsy. I use Play TV and simply don't want a load of data dumped on my PS3. At least it's not mandatory. But from what you say, it may as well bloody be. It really is the shittiest thing about the PS3. Installs and painfully slow game updates.
  • MaoZedong #22 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:40:08 17-12-2011
  • RodHull #23 2 years ago

    Considering the technical headaches and issues deriving from PD's insistence on having so many cars in GT5 does make me wonder why they bothered. If it "only" had 500 vehicles to choose from I doubt the sales would be affected. I for one didn't come close to sampling the 400 odd cars in GT4 and I played that game for an obscene amount of time.
    Edited by RodHull at 25/11/10 @ 16:48
  • Mister_G #24 2 years ago

    Hey! Does anyone remember Tekken 1 on the PS1?

    When that was loading you could play Galaga whilst you waited. Why don't devs give us that sort of thing now-a-days?

    With Tekken 1 it loaded so fast you hardly got chance to play Galaga enough, with GT5 you could play it for ages.

    A game like Galaga is tiny compared to todays games, and wouldn't slow the PS3 down at all. It could even run in a window to keep the GT5 progress bar visible.

    Maybe in GT6, although I hope the blu-ray drive is much quicker in the PS4 so shouldn't need HD installs so much.
  • DarkSeptember #25 2 years ago

    It gave me an estimated time of 30 minutes . Took 27 minutes to install . I've got a fat PS3 , originally with a 40GB hard drive , but replaced it with a 320GB model.
  • edhe #26 2 years ago

    @Mister_G imo MS have missed a trick by not having tiny games built into their dashguide - just pop it up during loads/matchmaking and get yourself a quick score for sharing with mates :)
  • SeesThroughAll #27 2 years ago

    Mister_G, that is a very good idea indeed. Such games are tiny, and Sony could in fact include a few of them in the firmware itself. Developers could then invoke them for load times/installations.
  • DirtyDubs #28 2 years ago

    "in our test, an uncached track with uncached cars took over 80 seconds to load"

    Back to C64 days :-P

    Plus ça change, plus ça reste pareil
  • Flabio #29 2 years ago

    @Mister_G - cause Namco have a software patent on it, so noone else can do it.
  • omraya #30 2 years ago

    I guess I'm going to get heavily negged for this, but anyway..

    Why does the PS3 even does that?
    There's nothing more frustrating than getting your new shiny copy of a game that you've been waiting for,
    only to sit there and wait for an hour before you can actually play it..

    The Xbox360 seems to manage just fine without this nagging, you just put your disc in,
    and it's go time, so why isn't that available on PS architecture?
    seems to me like such a wrong choice on Sony's behalf.
    Edited by omraya at 24/11/10 @ 14:46
  • Roland_D11 #31 2 years ago

    42 minutes is ludicrous for a 6.5 GB install though as I frequently install full Xbox 360 games to the HDD and even the 6.8 GB ones don't take longer than 10 minutes!!! :o

    The Xbox installs are that quick because they basically dump one file (an Iso-Image of the game) to the hard drive. GT5 seems to extract a huge amount of small files to the hard drive, which results in a lot of head movement on the hard drive.

    It should be possible to install a SSD into your PS3, that should reduce the install time ;-) .
  • vizzini #32 2 years ago

    Good article, certainly an install for people with lots of patience.

    I am not against big installs; although I prefer not to have them, but you do expect the install to at least be efficient(ie proportional to the drive speed and data transferred).

    I suspect a combination of the many small files being exploded and CRC checked, hypervisor security, defragmentation or resizing of the drive's master file database and worn physical sectors are all issues that are leading to this long install time for GT5; and I suspect a glut of blu-ray drive lasers will be failing soon in PS3's around the world.

    It would be interesting to know if digital foundry did a quick format on the 60GB drive, or did the mammoth stress test format, prior to installing.

    I know a 40hr hard disk format with physical damaged sector testing is overkill, and very few ps3 owners will have gone to those lengths when they first bought their system. But it would be interesting to see if the slow format and a reinstall on DF 60gb got better performance out of the hard drive.

    When I first got a replacement drive 500GB drive for my PS3 60GB model, I did the slow format using a caddy and Linux Fedora's disks tools to stress test the drive; which was only 18hrs, half the time the ps3 Xmb offered.

    Anyone upgrading their drive, should seriously consider a caddy and a full disk format using proper disks tools, prior to installing and using the quick format on the PS3.
  • apoc_reg #33 2 years ago

    This game is such a bunch of arse. Might look great and be car porn for physic engine buffs but the implementation sucks the life out of it for me.

    I'll keep hot pursuit and forza for now
  • Dop #34 2 years ago

    Got my copy of GT5 in the post yesterday, got home from work, switched on the PS3, started the install, then went and got changed, cooked dinner, ate dinner, drank tea, and only had to wait another ten minutes for it.

    The reason this game has taken so long to produce is obviously the same reason the install timer is wrong. Polyphony are obviously trapped in a pocket of SlowTime - four seconds for them is ten minutes or more for us!

    Really must upgrade the hard disk in my PS3, the 20Gb is looking real cramped!
    Edited by Dop at 24/11/10 @ 17:00
  • FuzzyDuck #35 2 years ago

    It sat at "1 second remaining" for over 23 minutes before i cancelled. It also sat on a load screen between menus for 5 minutes.

    Combine this with the fact that it still plays like "Gran Turismo: The Real Bumper Car Simulator" makes me fell bad for not giving Criterion my money instead.
  • homerramone #36 2 years ago

    Shame the article wasnt a few more pages. Wouldve been something to read while waiting for the install :-)
  • gandhimaster #37 2 years ago

    omraya - to be fair to Sony, the reason that 360 doesn't do compulsory installs, is because blu-ray drives read/write much slower than DVD.

    So there is a technical reason, it reduces the time the disk needs to be read etc.

    I think Sony made the right choice of storage size, but this is the end result which i guess can't be helped.

    It IS very annoying tho, and MS has a big advantage with load times and updates cos of it.
  • jackdoe #38 2 years ago

    @omraya

    You're really generalizing here. Not every PS3 game needs an installation nor do most installations take an hour.

    Not to mention the fact that a lot of Xbox 360 games should be installed to improve performance as well, so in the end it is a moot point. I've installed every Xbox 360 game that I own (some load times are atrocious without it, i.e. Resident Evil 5) and I wish ALL PS3 games had an optional install as there are certainly games that can benefit.
    Edited by jackdoe at 25/11/10 @ 00:34
  • dillingerdan #39 2 years ago

    Took about 30 mins on my slim, maybe a little less since I set it to do it, and came back and the message saying it had finished was done. I don't care if it delays me playing the game, as long as I get the best experience. The thing is I have noticed little "Installing..." icons flash up, after I did the option full install... Uh, hello! I let it do the install, why the hell didn't it install EVERYTHING that it wanted to install?
  • Dyason #40 2 years ago

    This explains the long development time! Every time there was a new build to test they had to wait for it to install :p
  • layleeloo #41 2 years ago

    I installed mine a couple of days ago. I have played it a fair bit in the last day or two and got to level 7. However it is still slow as ass? After some races (career) it can take over a minute to get back to the main screen? This article says once things have cached it shoudl be a lot faster. But I have been on the home screen many times yet sometimes after a race it still takes an age to load, to the point where I think its crashed? I have the 80GB fat version
    Edited by layleeloo at 24/11/10 @ 22:49
  • Bluetooth #42 2 years ago

    I find all this hilarious.

    360 did the HD install the best (no I'm not a fanboy).
  • SavageEvil #43 2 years ago

    My install took around 25-30 minutes or so, I think the amount of space you have left on your HDD is what increases the loading time. My HD has about 55Gigs after the install, so my HDD isn't chock full of stuff and I have a 160Gig HDD and I also have a 500Gig HDD waiting to be installed should I need to use it. When you utilize a new course or new area in the game, it does a install and whatever it is loads up. To my dismay, there was some seriously weird things happening when transitioning from GT Life to the default start up screen. The game kind of just sat there, the HDD light wasn't flashing or anything, but i could access the XMB so the game wasn't frozen. It finally started moving again, but that made my heart skip a beat thinking my PS3 was about to eject the HDD and GT5 for fear of dying trying to play GT5. lol.

    All is well already made it to A Spec level 6 and most of that was just the B license tests 8 silver and 2 golds, beginner kart golds and a gold and silver in the Nascar thing and one championship clubman race.
  • mono_eric3 #44 2 years ago

    Digital Foundry Guys/Gals, how big is the game in total? You mention a 12Gb mammoth file, but I get the impression that's just a subset of the disc.

    The reason I ask is that a full install could cause system incompatibility. A 20Gb PS3 cant take a 30Gb install for example, so certain features (a full install) would be SKU specific and that's something I would expect Sony to be quite resistant to.

    Also, Do you guys know if it *is* possible to install a SSD drive into a PS3 as Roland_D11 suggests? It would be quite interesting to see what kind of benefits that might give the average user.

    As far as the actual game goes, it seems pretty broken in all aspects except for a small subset of the actual racing, which for a simulation fan is perfect, but all the high scores seem to be ignoring the bigger picture to my mind. As for all the content, only 20% of it is actually new content, which seems a bit cheap to me.

    : D
    Edited by mono_eric3 at 25/11/10 @ 14:13
  • riseer #45 2 years ago

    I agree the instailing sucks but it's gt i love it.Their are things PD needs to fix, i think when you work on a game for 5 years it losses it's flaire, tech and all gets older and doesn't look as good as it could had been.That said it's worth the 60 dollars going to buy a wheel soon to really get the most out of it.As for Forza being the king..no it's not just because ign gives it a 8.5 from some scrub i never even heard of.GT5 was so over hyped for some reason i didn't buy into it.So far it's the best sim ever made on a console.Yes better then forza 1 2 3,theirs no telling what pd will do to patch up the problems.With time it will get better try playing NFS shift on ps3/xbox then play gt5 theirs no contest Gt5 all the way.
  • pac666 #46 2 years ago

    Perhaps we need to go back to catridges again eh? True Plug and Play they were. This is just getting ridiculous.
  • Arwin #47 2 years ago

    I personally opted out of the initial install and so far have no issues and no complaints, other than the occasional window that pops up asking me if I'd really rather not do the install ... I wonder if they did that because otherwise load-times in online would vary too much? But the way the online now works, the loading is done in the background and the track is already in memory before the race starts, so it's really not necessary.
  • Geordiemp #48 1 year ago

    I just dont get the install thing - you put the disk in before going to bed and say install, same as downloading big demos...

    Or put the telly on, or go do something...

    People have no patience. Who cares, its how good the game is...

    Having a 500 GB HD, I would prefer evey game installs. I prefer the whol disk installs of the 360, but my paltry 60 GB means I have to swap around so not as good as PS3 in that aspect...

    Perfect solution, Blue ray, 100 % install (best of both)...