The Future of PlayStation Move

By Richard Leadbetter Published 24 July, 2010

Sony tech demos reveal rich potential for motion control gaming.

During E3 2010, Digital Foundry had the chance to sit down and talk in-depth with Dr Richard Marks, one of the creative minds behind EyeToy and the new PlayStation Move. It was a great opportunity to learn more about Move and the creation process behind the project, and the conversation left us hugely enthused about the potential of the new controller.

This week Marks was in the UK to talk in more depth about PlayStation Move and to showcase some of the superb technical demos his team has created. These demonstrations are used by Sony itself to give game-makers some idea of the sheer diversity and flexibility of the new controller - and it's fair to say that the scale and scope of what we saw here far eclipses anything we have seen in any of the launch titles.

Thanks to a superb assist from Eurogamer TV, we're able to bring you Richard Marks' entire presentation, complete with direct feed video of the demos in action. Put simply, this is brilliant stuff.

Witness Sony's behind-the-scenes Move tech demos.

First impressions of Move - especially from the initial GDC showing - revealed a gameplay experience not a million miles away from what you see on Wii: with a range mostly consisting of fun, bite-sized, mini-game style titles, designed to appeal to a certain type of audience. Titles like Move: Start the Party, Sports Champions and TV Superstar are clearly targeted at the same sort of audience that has lapped up the Wii style of gaming.

But what Richard Marks' presentation shows is that clearly, obviously, Move offers so much more - and the games we've seen to date only hint at the potential. Sure, the utilisation of PlayStation Eye does make its way into the launch titles, working best in Move: Start the Party. Here, the 60FPS camera feed is used in-game, with 3D rendered objects convincingly added into the video in a technique Sony calls "augmented reality" - a unique selling point in the battle of the motion controllers.

But in terms of the gameplay experience itself in these launch titles, the ultra-precision of Move isn't really a major factor in how these games actually play. What Marks' presentation focuses on is how that precision can be factored directly into producing control systems and gameplay we've never experienced before, and how PlayStation Move is capable of things that neither Wii nor Kinect are physically able to replicate.

The tech is there, the libraries are there, the broad concepts are there and the raw potential shown in these demos is startling. The question remains whether the will is there amongst developers and publishers to create Move-exclusive titles that fully utilise the outstanding potential of the technology...

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (145) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • clearblue #1 2 years ago

    hasn't the "technology" shown that we're a bit bored of this controller configuration? no matter how precise it is, its not going to open up massive new avenues of control possibilities cmpared to the wii is it?

    I guess I'm not exactly riding a wave of public approval. But how many of the controller-configurations he demonstates are ones we'll actually be using for the next few years in our games? A sword hitting a manequin, a fairly boring RTS control system, an indirectly measured head-cam. I'm not saying Kinect or the Wii are any better... but is this the future? Really?
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 23:52

  • Arwin #2 2 years ago

    Actually Sony is building up a fair track-record of getting their tech demoes into their games. Below I"ve posted a list that I've been making of games that I've seen confirmed with Move controls, but it is interesting to pick out some of them to see how they've incorporated tech demoes.

    First of all, if you remember Sports Champions has most of the demoes shown last year already incorporated. The gladiator duel was in there, control of an object like the ping-pong bat is in there, the archery was a demo and is in there, etc. The second big launch title, Start the Party, has most of the first augmented reality stuff shown, but also the new update to EyePet uses this too (and that team added 3D display support even before Richard's team had their first 3D tv set-up). Also stuff like painting on the screen which was also one of the first tech demoes is in Start the Party and in EyePet, but there's also apparently a more dedicated game for it called 'Beat Sketcher'.

    Some lesser known games that however have been announced at E3 but don't all make it to launch have more of the tech demo goodness in them. The game Tumble is what started out as the 'stack colored blocks' tech demo, and is already a full game announced for this year, and supports 3D as well incidentally (of which you can see the use for this particular game more than any other I think). Looking at the use a flashlight to highlight stuff demo, Echochrome 2 uses this for its main 'shadow' gameplay, and although it is not clear if they'll be using the latest RTS selection demo, Ubisoft announced and demoed support for their R.U.S.E. RTS game at their latest presentation of the game a few weeks ago. Also, while saying that they didn't actually talk with Ubisoft about R.U.S.E., Anton mentions in a hip-hop gamer interview that the latest RTS demo was actually commissioned.

    I could go on for a bit more about the pointing etc and games that demo this, but my little one is calling me to the breakfast table. ;)
    echochrome 2, September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=Usn6eo9FeTM[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=Usn6eo9Fe...[/link]
    Interview with additional footage:
    [url][link url=http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/06/30/in troducing-echochrome-ii/[/url]
    ]http://bl og.eu.playstation.com/2010/06/3...[/link]

    Sports Champions™, September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=3gpI_iC_55Y[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=3gpI_iC_5...[/link]
    Eye Pet™, September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=Z0_cpXVKq9E[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0_cpXVKq...[/link]
    Kung Fu Rider™, September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=kVhjIwWcnA4[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=kVhjIwWcn...[/link]
    Start the Party! ™, September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=k8FG8D-QgGM[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=k8FG8D-Qg...[/link]
    Tumble (PSN), September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=0glv0LG1cu8[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=0glv0LG1c...[/link]
    This is based on another of the tech-demoes, and actually looks pretty good. I particularly like that you can play it in 3D, as this was one game where I thought 3D would be a big help.
    Toy Story 3: The Video Game (Disney Interactive Studios), September 2010
    The Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest (WB Games Inc.), September 2010
    Brunswick Pro Bowling (Crave), September 2010
    Resident Evil®5 Gold Edition (Capcom), September 2010
    Time Crisis: Razing Storm (Bandai Namco), September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=3OTLASzsbFQ[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=3OTLASzsb...[/link]
    Contains 3 games in one (Razing Storm, Time Crisis 4 and a Zombie Pirates themed game)

    Hustle Kings, October 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=fBPEz4jmh94[/url]]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=fBPEz4jmh...[/link]
    PAIN (PSN), October 2010
    TV Superstars™, October 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=uyB6P1qbfeA[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=uyB6P1qbf...[/link]
    The Fight: Lights Out™, October 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=zERFT2RXsk0[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=zERFT2RXs...[/link]
    What I've seen from the footage indicates that the game has developed to 1-to-1 motion tracking, from the gesture recognition it seemed to be doing earlier.

    The Shoot™, October 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=06uHTJk9dws[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=06uHTJk9d...[/link]
    High Velocity Bowling (PSN) October 2010
    Heavy Rain®, October 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=hLbI-AqDPao[/url]]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=hLbI-AqDP...[/link]
    Hiphop gamer is playing, but don't worry, during the actual gameplay he's just about speechless. ;) He's playing the demo fight scene with the move, and it's definitely something else.
    Sly Collection, November 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=W1OaTM5YoA0[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=W1OaTM5Yo...[/link]
    Just has some added party/mini games, like slicing bamboo and stuff (very brief glimpse in this trailer)
    LittleBigPlanet™ 2, November 2010
    Michael Jackson: The Experience November 2010

    Beat Sketcher (PSN), Fall 2010
    SOCOM 4, Fall 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=SkHwaXcXumo[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=SkHwaXcXu...[/link]
    Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 11 (Electronic Arts), September 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=xlCHW3nZfrI[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCHW3nZf...[/link]

    NBA® 2K11 (2K Sports), October 2010
    John Daly's ProStroke Golf (OG International), Fall 2010 [url][link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOgdmk60JAI&feature=rel ated[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=FOgdmk60J...[/link]
    Racquet Sports (Ubisoft), Fall 2010
    R.U.S.E. (Ubisoft), September 2010
    This is a Real-Time Strategy game
    Kung Fu LIVE (Virtual Air Guitar Company), October 2010
    SingStar® Dance, November 2010 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=QdF2gLMeWZE[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=QdF2gLMeW...[/link]
    Deadliest Catch: Sea of Chaos™ (Crave), November 2010
    Disney Tron Evolution the Video Game (Disney Interactive Studios), November 2010
    Buzz Music Quiz, Fall 2010?

    2011
    Dead Space 2 with Dead Space Extraction using the Move controller (on rails shooter) as an 'extra': Tuesday 25 January 2011
    Heroes on the Move, 2011 [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=rPilZPmqb6Q[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=rPilZPmqb...[/link]
    Sorcery, 2011
    Killzone 3, 2011
    Plain Sight, 2011? [url][link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=7x4MHlpQayM[/url]
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=7x4MHlpQa...[/link]
    Edited by 2 at 24/07/10 @ 08:46

  • nightlimit #3 2 years ago

    if this was shot in a soho hotel, you could have looked out of the window and seen a group of animators jealously watching Richard play from their office across the road. Got a call from my sister on Thursday saying she was watching some guys playing with the PS Move in the hotel across the road and was giving thought to storming the place :D

  • barkertron #4 2 years ago

    I was really impressed by this - I'd actually argue that the demo showed a lot of stuff that the Wii can't do, or at least hasn't done yet. Richard Marks definitely strikes me as the right kind of person you want behind this - he's enthusiastic about the platform but doesn't bullshit or shy away from pointing out limitations, as he does right at the start of the video. Contrast this with the typical marketing speak you get from most other tech evangelists in all 3 companies.

    This video actually had me really hoping that the Move becomes the standard controller for the next Playstation - it can't initially be a lucrative market for most developers to get behind, but if it becomes a standard then we'll definitely start seeing a lot of great games come out of it. I've got to say, the 3D sculpting/painting has pretty much sold me on it by itself.

  • peterfll #5 2 years ago

    There's some really cool stuff in there. Nothing blew me away, but I expect its one of those situations when you need the tech in your hands yourself to get a real feel for it.

    Although I still think the PS Eye camera is the weak link in the set. What does it give you - 15 - 20 FPS?

  • barkertron #6 2 years ago

    Oh and can the Lego building game shown half way through PLEEEEEEEEEASE be released.... I will pay you good money Sony.

  • KayJay #7 2 years ago

    @#1
    if you are talking about the wii controls. People aren't bored of it are they. Look at the recent sales figures for the wii it's still destroying the 360 and PS3.
    And let's face it this really is a step up compared to the wii controls...
    All the talk about the wii being able to put you in the shoes of Luke skywalker has never happened to the level most wanted. With move this will happen and will I expect meet our expectations, looking at what we have seen so far.
    So my point is, you can really do a 1:1 comparison of the wii & move. Although if you did the move would clearly come out a little ahead.

  • Arwin #8 2 years ago

    @peterfill: actually the PS Eye camera isn't a very weak link. It gives you 640x480@60fps or 320x240@120fps, where, for instance, the Kinect cameras according to specs at least don't go beyond 30fps.

  • drumbaby #9 2 years ago

    It looks good, but seeing as I'm the one buying the games/ gear it won't be my kids whining for the latest gimmick that makes me get this (even though they'll be using it more than me if/ once I do)...Sony have to prove to me that it makes RE5 and the like better to play, and not just different. From what this article is saying the Move tech' is probably up to the challenge of winning me over.

  • Geordiemp #10 2 years ago

    @peterfill,

    Read the article, the demos are running at 60 fps.

    Showing the sword cutting off limbs and heads with precision, thats a gameplay differentiator that makes a difference, and would be good for hardcore games.

  • Darkbeat #11 2 years ago

    That headtracking thing in the Puppet Demo is what could actually be a great sort of 3D effect. If you sit in your couch, playing a FPS, you can sort of skewer the view a bit by tilting left and right which would give a great sense of depth. I don't know if the precision suffers when you can only use one Move controller (the other has to be a nunchuck to move around the game world obviously). The speed of which it calculates the position of your head could be related to the position of your Move "bulb"

  • dr_faulk #12 2 years ago

    The likes of the DS classics - Ouendan, Layton, et al - will find their way onto systems like this, and positively so.

  • Gaol #13 2 years ago

    I can understand the potential, and as I no longer own a Wii am open to the idea of more core games using this tech. Nothing in the launch line-up looks interesting however so I will wait until there's some good software available. And it has to be something I'd be interested in in it's own right, I'm not going to buy stuff simply because it has Move support.

  • ThePissartist #14 2 years ago

    Looks really fidgety, sort of uncomfortable.

  • NorUraeus #15 2 years ago

    The game I am looking forward to the most currently for Move is R.U.S.E, the combination of RTS and consoles has always been a bit awkward, but I think the Move might actually change that. Hoping it works really well and catches on, maybe the next Civ:Revolution would use it too.

  • Praetorianer #16 2 years ago

    Wow, really impressive. The only downside will be the price...two controllers and the camera, the PS3 and a game = huge hole in my wallet.

  • karooo #17 2 years ago

    I am gonna buy this over Kinect.

    TC : Razing storm and Heavy Rain ftw

  • rotmm #18 2 years ago

    @Praetorianer,

    Price is one issue, but for me the main concern (especially for playing anything other than party games) is the reflection of the glowing balls becoming a distraction on the TV screen. Can you imagine playing Killzone 3 and seeing a purple reflection on the screen as you run'n'gun?

    An example of the issue is seen in the vids in this Kotaku post (especially the 2nd vid onwards)

    http://ko taku.com/5592953/four-fantastic...

  • Darkedge #19 2 years ago

    "Here, the 60FPS camera feed is used in-game, with 3D rendered objects convincingly added into the video in a technique Sony calls "augmented reality" - a unique selling point in the battle of the motion controllers"

    Err MS showed off that in their natal teaser vid, it will not be unique as can be done with both move and kinect as they both have cameras.

  • Arwin #20 2 years ago

    They showed it in the teaser vid, yes, and it should be theoretically possible. But because Kinect has so much lag, I think in practice it may end up looking really bad, as now there is no way to hide the lag, and you'll have the sword follow your hand at some distance. I think this is why currently none of the Kinect games have anything like this, because otherwise it's pretty easy to do.

    (In fact there are a lot of things in that original teaser that have turned out to be hard to deliver on by Microsoft, like more than 2 player, playing when sitting down, etc. ;) I'm sure some of the problems will be solved, but I think Move is quite far ahead on delivering on its potential at this point)
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 10:36

  • denis09 #21 2 years ago

    Playing Tiger Woods 2011 with Motion Plus on the Wii just recently made me very eager to get my hands on Move, even just WMP accuracy is excellent in that type of game, and getting PS3 quality graphics with such an experience... Moreover the Move demos shown here are impressive and hints to a much wider potential for the Move than the Wiimote.

    Let's hope devs will indeed pick up the tech and utilize them in a more advanced way than just gestures and Wiimoteish waggle-controls!

  • Chazmeister #22 2 years ago

    "The question remains whether the will is there amongst developers and publishers to create Move-exclusive titles that fully utilise the outstanding potential of the technology... "

    And there in lies the biggest problem that both Move and Kinect have. Why should a major dev/publisher bother to make a top flight AAA game that uses one of these new controllers, and therefore is only available to one system, when they can keep making multiplatform games for traditional controllers and sell twice as many?

    Lets face it, despite all the fabulous potential for games that both Move and Kinect possess, the vast majority of stuff we'll see will be cheap unimaginative party games. I mean look at all the creative potential the Wii controller offered when it first hit the market. I remember seeing some pretty exciting tech demo's for that too, and yet apart from some first party Nintendo efforts no one has bothered to do anything remotely different or exciting with the controller.

  • alcides #23 2 years ago

    "But what Richard Marks' presentation shows is that clearly, obviously, Move offers so much more - and the games we've seen to date only hint at the potential."

    the wii has random waggling detection and kinect throws in compulsory standing and lag, though. Don't be so partial, EG.

  • Raznilof #24 2 years ago

    It's in the games, stupid...

    (cool tech though)

  • Arwin #25 2 years ago

    "Let's hope devs will indeed pick up the tech and utilize them in a more advanced way than just gestures and Wiimoteish waggle-controls!"

    "It's in the games, stupid... "

    "Let's hope devs will indeed pick up the tech and utilize them in a more advanced way than just gestures and Wiimoteish waggle-controls!"

    etc.

    It's almost as if I never posted the second post ... And it's being neg-repped at that. Boy oh boy.

  • Raznilof #26 2 years ago

    @arwin you're back in the clear.

  • dfua #27 2 years ago

    The augmented reality stuff is going to be very dependent on the room and lighting. It'll have no problem picking up the move controllers due to the light but I don't have much faith in it detecting or tracking anything else unless it just predicts based on the position of the move controllers. Eyepet was a real exercise in frustration.

    How many games are going to use or need two move controllers? It's not very clear at the moment but seems to add a lot to the potential.

  • Dizzy #28 2 years ago

    Motion controls will only sell as party games. Hardcore players will always use their pad/mouse. In the end Move won't do anything more than the Wiimote.

  • The_Bloody_Kettle #29 2 years ago

    I like the look of it, but I'm not going to rush out and spend my cash until I see this being used with top titles.
    I was burnt once by the wii's small number of games that used it's tech, I won't be burnt a second time.

    But still, I hope this works out. I really do.

  • Ryboy #30 2 years ago

    All the Sony fan boys have crawled out from their holes. It looks fucking shite, tired and boring.

    Get over it.

  • SilentNinja92 #31 2 years ago

    when I see this I see something like the elder scrolls using this.

    One hand for the sword, one with the analouge stick to move. You could fight yourself, cast spells, repair stuff and customise all by yourself.

    and then theres even just picking things up, being a theif and acrually having to get items yourself or having your own map to get out. Even things like melee, picking up and throwing smaller enemies.

    Fortunately though if third parties dont, its always guaranteed that something imaginative will come out of sonys own studios. Theyve already done easy stuff with it like socom and KZ3, and that wizard game. But they have some really creative minds in there putting this in LBP and hopefully some more new ip's

    probably wont happen, but a game like that which is all about being immersed in a whole new world, its a perfect match.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 11:41

  • CrumpledPaper #32 2 years ago

    There are lots of possibilities. I've finally come around to the idea that of the 3 solutions presented so far, I think it is the best. I had many hopes for Kinect, but now I think they were unrealistic, and I think it would be better applied in another area other than games.

    Sony will have to make sure Move sticks around long enough that we see the possibilities realised though. It is a big shame they didn't have this ready to roll a couple of years ago. We'll see what they do now though.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 12:01

  • vizzini #33 2 years ago

    I sold my Wii after finishing Mario Galaxy, but I wouldn't say I was burnt by the Wii; the motion control experience I got at launch was excellent for 6 – 9 months for a modest financial loss.

    The nail in the Wii coffin for me was when they announced motion plus; admitting the standard tech was flawed.

    It should have been motion plus at launch, but they held back probably to make the peripheral money twice; even though they knew the problems with the standard tech that people would notice after the initial impressions faded.

    That is why I've pre-ordered Move; the other half has missed her party game fix, and the showcase of Socom in action with Move gives me confidence that it will get used properly in core games to improve the experience like in a golf game, rather than have it artificially forced into games like Mario Kart, Twilight Princess & Mario Galaxy that are far more compelling on a classic cube pad imo.

    I would really like to hear an announcement about an improved Super Monkeyball Banablitz for Move. The Wii version had an excellent rendition of Super Monkeyball target, that only needed a consistently accurate motion controller(in 4P) and more than one map to be great.

    I think these tech videos are most useful in showing the reliability, sensitivity and accuracy of the Move controller, rather than what games are currently in development.

    The question remains whether the will is there amongst developers and publishers to create Move-exclusive titles that fully utilise the outstanding potential of the technology...

    Change the word Move to PS3 and then look at Sony's first party line up; whether developers get behind Move won't stop the Sony exclusives being good, Modnation Racers is the only game, other than trying demos that I've played since May.

  • Ryze #34 2 years ago

    I'm in Sony - launch day wand with Heavy Rain, Resi 5 and whatever else looks good.

    Don't let me down!

  • gylo #35 2 years ago

    Phenomenal!

    Long time since I've actually said "WOW" looking at game tech, but when he made the windows and started bending them in augmented reality that was brilliant.

  • Diomedes #36 2 years ago

    As I already told by E3 2009 the Sony tech is the best of both worlds. Kinect is unable to give you control of any character in a 3D environment ,you have to stand up to play ,you dont have buttons .....it may be precise and get your limbs movements but the gameplay it can deliver is like the original Eye Toy more or less. Wii Motion Plus doesnt have lots of software support ,doesnt have augmented reality ,and it runs on the ageing Wii hardware so no HD,online,etc.

    It has taken a year to get through MS smoke and mirrors presentation of 2009 but now most people are realizing this.

  • VandelayIndustries #37 2 years ago

    No less refreshingly honest now then when it was revealed at E3'09.

    Dizzy - "Motion controls will only sell as party games. Hardcore players will always use their pad/mouse. In the end Move won't do anything more than the Wiimote."

    If this turns out to be advantageous for shooters (and it looks like it will), particularly in online multi-player then this will sell to the 'hardcore', just look at the modded controller fiasco with the last two CoD games on 360. People will pay for the advantage.

    Then of course we have the prospect of decent RTS games on console now.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 13:33

  • Mkwone #38 2 years ago

    I honestly believe that Move will be the hardware that gives hardcore gamers faith in motion controls.

    I don't think it'll replace the pad, but i think it will become a useful bit of kit for every ps3 owner.

    And i can't tell you how pleased i am that sony are putting it in proper games, Heavy Rain, Killzone, Tiger Woods, LBP, RUSE etc etc etc.

    I just hope to god that when we get the next uncharted game, it uses this tech.

    Oh and i also swore outloud when showing the 'scrolls' demo

    Can't wait

  • KayJay #39 2 years ago

    @39
    The ability to grab and push/pull button on the move are what sets it apart from Kenict.
    And the 1:1 mapping of the move compared to the Wii controller (not counting wmp)
    Keniect has shown us nothing core related, no Halo, gears not even a nuts and bolt demo...
    Move has shown us Killzone, socom, sorcerer (?) etc... No matter how well they turn out these aren't casual game by any strech of the imagination.

    Move has taken the clearly enjoyed and popular wii controls and added to it...

  • Retroid #40 2 years ago

    Those are some pretty damned impressive demos there. I'm... getting quite tempted!

  • JediMasterMalik #41 2 years ago

    I fear for move, the potential for some amazing experiences are there, and they're even beginning to be capitalised on, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of interest at the moment, I can only hope Sony have a big marketting push towards release, cause at the moment Kinect has the magic factor about it.

    I want Move to succeed cause I think it can actually bring motion controls to the hardcore in a way the Wii has only really hinted at, but I'm not sure it's been handled as well as it could have been.

  • kimchibaka #42 2 years ago

    That demo has absolutely sold it to me, the potential looks stunning.

    It's now not 'if' but 'when' something irresistible comes along that uses it that I simply cannot resist.

  • dsmx #43 2 years ago

    Move works and that's all that matters, sony have even shown proper games like Socom using move. That is something that Microsoft still haven't done.

  • Retroid #44 2 years ago

    That's it, the 'bendy plastic' and the scrolls have sold it to me.

  • Retroid #45 2 years ago

    Thing is, there are various things which could be used with Kinect to fill out some of the apparent problems with it, but we just haven't seen them.

    MS have done an absolutely terrible job of selling Kinect to me this year after the initial promise of the first tech demos and seem to be intent on selling it to anyone but me. Sony have shown the potential with Move after a shaky unveiling last year and now, with the announced prices, it looks like they've made my choice for me.

    Now my only concern is the amount of space I'll need.

  • supermaniacs #46 2 years ago

    I'm thoroughly enjoying how Dr Marks sells and promotes the PS Move, compared to the arrogant and pompous Kudo Tsunoda does for the Kinect!!

  • dsmx #47 2 years ago

    I tend to think that the reason why Microsoft have done such a terrible job of showing what kinect can do is that they can't think of anything to do with it. They've shown a few tech demos and some crappy little "games" but all I saw in them was something sony did years ago with the first eye toy and the second version on the ps3. That's not to say devs won't find anything to do with it, it's just that Microsoft haven't really shown how kinect would benefit people playing games

  • CrumpledPaper #48 2 years ago

    "Such as..?
    Seems like something that would've been worth elaborating on."

    With Wii you wouldn't be able to do the stuff that requires the camera, the skeletal tracking demo for example would be a definite no-no. I also think the general quality of the tracking is beyond what the Wiimote has shown, even with Motion Plus. If you watch the AILive videos demonstrating Motion Plus you'll notice that the demo constantly resets every few seconds. I have not seen the same level of continuous motion tracking that is evident in the Move demos.

    As for Kinect, you wouldn't be able to do all the stuff that requires the fast recognition and unambiguity that buttons allow, or things that require fast and precise tracking. Compare pointing with wiimote or Move to the kind of cursor interface shown on Kinect. With Kinect you seem to more float the cursor into position rather than simply point and click. Kinect's tracking is full body, but it seems slower and less precise, and far more prone to noise and mess-ups, so you can't really design something that requires a lot of precision and small margins of error. Unfortunately for MS, a lot of games do require that. Which is why I think the Kinect games that have been shown so far seem to gravitate towards a very small subset of genres where Kinect can be applied. It's why I said earlier that I think Kinect isn't best suited to gaming. When it comes to games, Kinect seems to be a solution looking for problems.

    The more I think about, the more I think Move occupies a sweet spot between the two solutions. Move + a depth sensing camera would be the ideal solution, no one is going to argue that that ability on Kinect wouldn't be welcome, but in the absence of that ideal Move + Eye seems the closest substitute.
    Edited by 2 at 24/07/10 @ 15:25

  • swills #49 2 years ago

    I own a 360 and have never owned a PS3. This looks way, way more interesting that Kinect does to me. The preciseness and the 60 FPS are both huge deals when it comes to proper gaming, and I am sure you'll notice the difference in the casual games too.

  • makeamazing #50 2 years ago

    I think Sony are finally getting there. When the Wii first hit the scene, I (like many others) jumped in believing that the controller/console would add so much to the game playing experience. Only to be let down by unrealistic looking games and unfortunately very unrealistic control (tennis where you just move the controller to hit a ball with no effect). After rushing out and gettting a few games, it ended up being a total letdown... I remembered just how much a graphics/hardcore gamer i was. The benefit the Sony console has is that they are not trying tojust make new games that use the tech, but are pushing to include support on their current catalogue of AAA games (and getting other companies to do the same). I hated the controls for REvil. With move i really can see myself picking it up and buying the game with Move control.

    So for me, i am going to pick this up, and I hope Sony continue to include games that will support it from the back catalog. As for Kinect, I still think the americans will lap it up, but i really dont think its going to do anything for the tech savy, more hardcore gamers (e.g the ones that dont buy a console for non casual stuff).

  • patchbox360 #51 2 years ago

    why would a milf want to fire an arrow

  • des #52 2 years ago

    Some people actually think that this glowing dildo Wii ripoff will sell?....hahahaha...next PSPGo in the making
    Every video shows zombie like people that look bored as hell,like they are catching flies or something...Sony has learned nothing from Nintendo





  • Goodfella #53 2 years ago

    @ des

    Raving 360 fanboy much?

    Move is clearly leagues ahead of what the Wii is capable of and as makeamazing says, I too was led to believe/assume the Wii would deliver this great experience, but it just didn't. Re: Tennis, with Move you could play almost like the real thing and have to position the controller precisely to where the ball is going.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 15:48

  • makeamazing #54 2 years ago

    I wouldnt go that far des. Sony has the benefit of having a better spec'd console with better graphics/sounds/depth of game (imho). So having something like Move which is a better controller than the wii is a plus. I expect there is more likelyhood that PC games such as StarCraft and Red Alert type games will have a good chance of appearing on the PS3. But also games that would never appear on the Wii such as Fallout/Oblivion type games support the controller. So for me that is a win win.

  • dsmx #55 2 years ago

    It's more likely to sell than kinect des as kinect still hasn't shown a single proper game being played with it.

  • des #56 2 years ago

    "I wouldnt go that far des. Sony has the benefit of having a better spec'd console with better graphics/sounds/depth of game (imho)"

    Your problem is that nobody cares about specs,graphics,etc...Wii(DS) has destroyed that myth,people just simply don't care

  • makeamazing #57 2 years ago

    Your problem is that nobody cares about specs,graphics,etc...Wii(DS) has destroyed that myth,people just simply don't care

    Your right those those moms/grannies playing wii fit or those families who will get Kinectimals dont care about tech spec..I only care about my own gaming experiences... and i care what this will give to me as a hardcore gamer... you seem to be getting confused that what other people want is more important to what i want... for me it isnt. Of course Sony need to make a profit and need to continue to make things for the wider audience. So dont get confused that just because more people buy the wii, or perhaps Kinnect will be more successful, that has no bearing on what i want out of games.

  • irrelevanthuman #58 2 years ago

    Very impressed,and the mind boggles at the potential here.Would love to see what Media Molecule could do with this-creating levels with move in a virtual 3D space would be awesome!No brainer purchase for me.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 16:13

  • des #59 2 years ago

    "I only care about my own gaming experiences... and i care what this will give to me as a hardcore gamer."

    That is perfectly valid and reasonable point but sales will affect the support,low sales--no one will support it
    Wii has 70 million userbase and motion control is in every box
    Kinect and Move start from zero,motion control is not in every box...tough sale

    "It's more likely to sell than kinect des as kinect still hasn't shown a single proper game being played with it."

    Just like Wii has sold 70-80 million because of "proper" games,oh wait...

  • Stop-gap #60 2 years ago

    Well now... I'm still not sold on the entire motion control idea, but that demo, especially the plastic sheets bit, has my curiosity piqued.
    Chuck in some more head-tracking and develop some (non waggle-fest, non party) games from the ground up to use this tech, and you might just get some money out of me, Sony.

  • Mkwone #61 2 years ago

    Wii Still has Zelda & Mario to fall back on in terms of real games, Kinect as yet doesn't have Halo or Gears.

  • Widge #62 2 years ago

    "Wii has 70 million userbase and motion control is in every box
    Kinect and Move start from zero,motion control is not in every box...tough sale"

    so much this its unreal. Kinect and Move have an uphill battle to get both user and developer adoption, its almost chicken and egg. Will be interesting to see how well they do.

  • Vyggo #63 2 years ago

    One weird oversight (?) in the premise of the article. You are talking about market expansion, and then you talk about the price of only the Kinect controller. For market expansion you need people without an xbox, so it would make way more sense talking about the price of the xbox + kinect package?!

    I would really like an explanation for this, as it seems like such a strange mistake (?) for a professional business writer.

  • Nighthawk_08 #64 2 years ago

    I'm so impressed with move and the potential it has. As a person who has been playing games for over 16 years this really has got me excited about future games on the ps3. I really can not see why any1 is bad mouthing the move. If you still think move is shit watch the tech demo.
    Another thing that excites me bout move is that I think all my favourite games, and genres could be used and improved with move (call of duty series, uncharted, killzones, dead space, resident evils, infamous ......I could be here all day). And I really really hope fallout Vegas will make a patch for it. Don't see why not

  • makeamazing #65 2 years ago

    Wii has 70 million userbase and motion control is in every box.. Kinect and Move start from zero,motion control is not in every box...tough sale

    I dont doubt thats an issue at all. In fact i totally agree, that if you bundle it you have more chance to sell. Though i am sure both Sony and MS would love for these devices to help them sell more than the Wii in terms of consoles, i think they pretty much know that its too late for that. This is all about making sure their consoles continue to sell and sell as well as they can (ignoring the sales of the other consoles). The MS console was not selling that great recently, and now the new console has come out, its beating the Wii in America at the moment. This is what it is all about, continuing to develop your console so that you can continue to sell more. Especially as neither MS or Sony are looking to release a new console any time soon. Also its probably likely they will include this tech in the next console, so i think its more longer term than, sell an item now.

    The wii has done great, but unless they continue to develop that console, it will slowly go stale in terms of sales, while Sony and MS will increase. Though i do think that Nintendo does have a price cut they can use in November.

  • Bluetooth #66 2 years ago

    At first I thought the two in the background were just a poster image, but then 7 minutes in the blonde moved and I was like "woah, real people!"
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 17:23

  • dot.dot #67 2 years ago

    Using 2 controllers has been underutillized on the Wii. A lot of the impressive parts of this video are only because he's using 2 controllers. Holding a 3d block of wood and carving it with the other controller is possible on Wii. I used to have hope for Kinect but it seems likely that the response times and the amount of data is going to completely decide the argument. I think people would flail about for serious 3D but on 2D displays that experience will never attract any decent games.

  • Dogzilla #68 2 years ago

    "Wii Still has Zelda & Mario to fall back on in terms of real games, Kinect as yet doesn't have Halo or Gears."

    I thought Halo was great, but to compare Halo and Gears of War to Zelda and Mario is a crime. Don't do it again.

  • Bremenacht #69 2 years ago

    That was impressive. The switch between 2d and 3d 'windows' was very cool.

  • jarek98 #70 2 years ago

    This demo shows, that Move actually can do EVERYTHING Kinect can (body and limbs movement tracking) and much more.

  • Monkey_Puncher #71 2 years ago

    This demo has actually shown what a large cluster of Playstation fan boys there are on Eurogamer. Anyone who's had the nerve to say anything slightly negative about Move has been given negs. Pretty embarrassing really...

  • Miths #72 2 years ago

    Very interesting video. That demonstration certainly didn't make me regret my Move Starter Pack + Nav Controller pre-order - though it's looking a bit like a second Move controller could be if not a necessity, then at least a benefit. But I think I'll hold back on ordering a second controller until I know that for sure.

  • NotSoSlim #73 2 years ago

    Well the video was class and shows the potential it has for games even if the majority of launch games could be seen a Wii clones. I give Sony credit for actually catering for both and not ditch what has got them the 35m console sales plus marketing something that looks awfully similar to a rival.

    It may not outsell Kinect but at least i know i can actually play a game on it from day one and not a bunch of mini games. Kinect was all hype last year and now the smoke is clearing people are seeing that whole it may be a great new way to play games it seem to only be able to be utilised with a certain type of game.

    The tech demo with the dummy just shouts out a Star Wars game :)

    [link url=http://www.hiphopg amershow.com/new/sony-reveals-the-truth-about-letting-micros oft-have-kinect/
    ]http://ww w.hiphopgamershow.com/new/sony-...[/link]

    (ignore hip hop gamer and you get some valid points without trashing the rival product)


    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 23:03

  • xenoss #74 2 years ago

    Notice how people love giving a Minus to those who express disinterest? Their comments are automatically inferior to positive ones.
    This happens both on 360 and PS3 fan bases. It is a disturbing trend.

    I'm generally interested in Move as a half-way replacement for a mouse. Analogue sticks are nothing but a compromise, it is about time to bring something like the mouse into console games. Failing that, I hope Move can achieve somewhat of a compromise. It is my believe that Move will live or die by its ability to provide a good shooter experience.

    If it doesn't work, it dies. If it works, it dies laters. Why? Because if it works, it'll allow people to dominate those with analogue sticks, more or less. And knowing gamers, they will cry and whine. And eventually, Move users will be on their own servers, which also means Move users will have a way lower player base which causes finding games to be harder and lag more of a problem. Eventually, this causes players to start moving back to analogue reluctantly just to find more quality matchmaking. And from that point on less and less games will support Move. Unless developers stick by it and let Move users dominate (those who cry can go get Move). But then, the idea of paying $100 to get Move just to play shooters with a new control scheme (console gamers are stubborn, and they love their traditional analogue sticks because they never knew PC gaming), is just not going to happen. This would in turn cause the 360 version, which is analogue only, to be even more popular.

    Leading to the defeat of PS3.

    So I'm not sure if I want Move to work or not. The device may be brilliant, but people are too damn stupid. (by people I mean console gamers; I thought PC gamers crying imbalances was annoying... but then I got into console games. Where rationality takes a back seat to blind fanboyism and brand loyatly, correction, brand religion, reign supreme. Where shit games sells billions and maps costs $15 instead of free and player generated)

  • Phishfood #75 2 years ago

    Excellent presentation. Good to see Sony has someone that isn't all hot air.

  • vizzini #76 2 years ago

    xenoss: it'll allow people to dominate those with analogue sticks, more or less

    You only require the starter pack for a 3rd/FPS shooters using Move, the (six axis/dualshock3) left hand stick is officially supported as an alternative to the sub controller.

    Most good arcade joysticks for fighting games are +Ł110 and they still sell like hotcakes, so a Ł45 initial investment shouldn't result in low adoption rates for Move.

    Pad players of fighting games don't complain about losses to stick players; learning stick typically requires a big investment in new gaming skills, as might using Move instead of pad.

  • dsmx #77 2 years ago

    Right then monkey_puncher you think it's sad that all those people got neg by sony fanboys?

    The video showed it being accurate, it showed it working, it showed proper 3d movement, sony have even given it a very good price. The video showed what happens when it loses sight of the ball and how quickly it recalibrates itself once the tracking is lost.

    Sony have shown Socom running on it, there even patching it into games that have already been released such as heavy rain also the ability to move something in 3D space combined with the PS3's ability to do 3D games should open some interesting possibilities.

    I fail to see what more sony could do they've created an accurate controller, what's more they've priced it at a point that people will buy. They've made games for it that people will buy now despite all that you still get people on here who say it's terrible without saying why they've disregarded all the evidence to the contrary.

    It should also be pointed out since move can be patched into already existing games it means the system resources required to get move to work is rather low, that is something that kinect can't claim to do since microsoft decided to cut out it's own processor to cut down the work the xbox 360 has to do in processing data. If kinect was as good as microsoft says why haven't we seen gears or halo using it?

    I think it's sad that more people don't congratulate sony for doing something right for once.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 02:14

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #78 2 years ago

    The technology demos are there in the sdk to give you ideas developers! Pay attention and out do those demos with full featured polished games! If you aren't doing so already.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 03:00

  • Davemanz #79 2 years ago

    It's seemed from the start that Sony had the right idea - the tech is relatively simple and very proven, but it's the implementation that matters. Tech geeks probably like the Kinect because of how new the basis for it is, but Move is invariably going to make for better gaming, since the precision and response time is so much better. The video is brilliant, particularly the second half.

    The one concern has to be the cost. Two controllers like that guy had won't come cheap.

  • Ashcroft #80 2 years ago

    All they have to do to get me to buy Move, is get Sega and Namco to release all their light gun games for it.

  • Murton #81 2 years ago

    Big fan of Marks and his work but what impresses me most is the way he conducts himself when he's on hype-duty. Execs and producers generally get really over-excited and try to sell us the moon while this guy just shows a demo and tells us what's going on behind the scenes, it really is a refreshing change in market strategy and something I hope to see more of from Sony in the future.

    As for the demo, good stuff, every time I see one of these I look forward to Move that little bit more. Not sure how many Move games I'm going to get as many aren't really my thing but the selection of "regular" games that can use Move plus the potential of the device itself is strong enough to convince me to get at least one set of controllers.

  • Dizzy #82 2 years ago

    "If this turns out to be advantageous for shooters (and it looks like it will), particularly in online multi-player then this will sell to the 'hardcore', just look at the modded controller fiasco with the last two CoD games on 360. People will pay for the advantage. "

    Possible... but I think it is very unlikely it will work better than a pad for shooters. Usually controls requiring big movements (Move, Wiimote and Kinect) are less suited for quick and accurate play than controls that require small movements (mouse/pad).

  • man.the.king #83 2 years ago

    @Dizzy

    "In the end Move won't do anything more than the Wiimote. "

    You wish

  • Goodfella #84 2 years ago

    @ Dizzy

    Have you never heard of the sensitivity option in games for mouse, or stick control. I'm sure FPS games will work better with Move with fine tuning of control options.

  • patchbox360 #85 2 years ago

    raise ur arms and move them around for 5 mins

  • theonlyix #86 2 years ago

    If someone is abandoning the core players, it sure is Sony. Forcing motion controls on people who love playing with the controller...... They try to make their "move" unreplaceable.
    Just imagine IF the Move is better for FPS than standard controller, how people with std controllers will have to cash up for Move to be competable, or worst for sony would be the other way around.

  • Goodfella #87 2 years ago

    If someone is abandoning the core players, it sure is Sony.

    That's laughable, did you actually see Microsofts Kinect presentation at E3? If you did then you'd realise it pretty much deviates from anything most 'core' gamers want.

  • jag10 #88 2 years ago

    @trebell

    does this answer your question:

    [link url=http://www.kungfulivegame.com/videos/?mov=2_K ung-Fu_Live_E3_Trailer
    ]http://ww w.kungfulivegame.com/videos/?mo...[/link]

  • des #89 2 years ago

    Tracking means knowing (x,y,z) position of key body points and Move is clearly incapable of that...the only thing that it really tracks is the glowing ball
    That's why there is a boxing game for Move that requires you to stand still,because depth info comes from glowing ball not your body."Whole body tracking" can be mimicked but that also means that system can be easily fooled.

    Also i love how after years of ignoring and thrashing motion controls and Wii,they are now the future of gaming and articles like this are made,i'm sure that many more will follow...lol

    Even Nintendo has realized that motion controls work only for party games,the best "core" Wii games have minimal motion controls incorporated.


  • Dizzy #90 2 years ago

    "how does it track legs? as someone says this two stick solution mimicks kinect 100%?

    in fact, how does it track your whole body like Kinect? They seem totally different to me. I'm not even sure they're competing now. "

    It doesn't. And no it can't match Kinect for body tracking. In fact for the dance game you have to attach one to your hip (WTF!).

  • dsmx #91 2 years ago

    Des kinnect can't even run a proper game and has so far shown only a bunch of casual games which won't appeal to the vast majority of current xbox owners. Move doesn't require you to stay still it showed it that video that it can do body tracking when he did that robot skeleton thing.

    The wii motion controls were rightly made fun of because they didn't work any better than pressing a button and it wasn't until wii motion plus appeared that wii did what nintendo said it would. The reason why the core games on the wii use minimal motion controls is because they've realised that the wii controller motion controls aren't any better than pressing a button.

    Sony's move controller still features all the buttons you get on a standard controller and you get motion controls so it will be up to the devs to decide on how they wish to implement motion controls.

  • des #92 2 years ago

    "The reason why the core games on the wii use minimal motion controls is because they've realised that the wii controller motion controls aren't any better than pressing a button. "

    Oh come on...i don't like motion controls but even i wouldn't say something stupid like that

  • Ryze #93 2 years ago

    The only glaringly obvious omission, is that when using two wands to control a character, there's no way of walking around, ie - no d-pad or analogue stick.

    They could have put an analogue stick where the 'Move' button is, then they could have fully recreated the Dual shock controls regardless of the combination of NavCon and wands.

    This would mean that one could hold onto the wand + NavCon during ANY game.

    Shame.

  • CrumpledPaper #94 2 years ago

    For legs tracking on Move you could make a stab at it without attaching anything to your leg. It probably wouldn't be very good but looking at videos of Kinect lately, it doesn't seem very robust with legs tracking either.

    Dance Central is being smart. It focuses your attention on the computer controlled characters on screen and their dancing so that it can smooth over bumps in the tracking in the background. And I'm sure there are lots of bumps.

  • dsmx #95 2 years ago

    I have a wii and I can safely say motion controls don't work properly, that table tennis game on wii sports resort is a great example. I'm trying to move the bat from a forehand postion to a backhand position the wiimote doesn't register it like that, it registers it as an attempt at a shot and the ball flies off the table. If nintendo can't even get it to work properly and lets be honest here nintendo are the only ones who make consistently good wii games I struggle to see how you can say the motion controls work.

    And crumpled paper this was posted on the previous page and does show the move leg tracking http://ww w.kungfulivegame.com/videos/?mo...
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 12:15

  • Goodfella #96 2 years ago

    @ Des, I guess you haven't played Metroid Prime: Corruption, about the best game on the Wii that uses motion controls. Imagine that with 'proper' controls like the Move, ;)

  • Ryze #97 2 years ago

    @CrumpledPaper


    You've just made that up, with no reference to the tech being used, haven't you?

  • NotSoSlim #98 2 years ago

    @calgon

    Everyone knows it's the spheres that do the work not the camera!! Even the tech demo shown highlights this

    Rest of your rant was pathetic...seriously

  • Nighthawk_08 #99 2 years ago

    @Calgon

    WTF u goin on about u tool. Playstation move, without doubt looks awesome. It's pretty much a universal opinion, from gaming journalists to your bog standard gamer, yet for some reason ass holes like you dismiss it completely as shit, try to rip holes in it in every which way you can, and I bet I know why........it's because you only have an xbox. Just because you don't own a console don't make it shit. I own xbox, and won't be buying kinnect, not cause of all the flaws people talk about, but cause there are no games at all that appeal to me. Not one even announced. Now I think you should stop commenting your bullshit opinions which have no input whatsoever and go back to jerkin off over bill gates.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 13:03

  • CrumpledPaper #100 2 years ago

    @Ryze

    Made what up? The dancers Dance Central is showing you aren't mirroring you, they are computer controlled, showing you what to do. There is a tiny little box in the corner that has a silhouette of the player, but it doesn't show the interpreted tracking, just the raw sillouette from the depth data. I am speculating that the reason for that is so they can handle problems with tracking transparently, so the user doesn't notice them. I am speculating that Harmonix isn't quite confident enough in the robustness of the tracking to put a representation of it front and center, and I think that's probably a smart approach. Because other Kinect games that have a raw representation of the skeletal tracking on screen, with an avatar or whatever, do show problems with tracking more often than they should. It looks bad when it happens, it breaks the illusion. Go to youtube and look through the videos of people playing at Macys. Every other video I watched showed problems, and usually it was more with the legs than with the upper body. Harmonix is wisely avoiding those problems. I think they find the tracking to be good enough to make their game around, obviously, but not good enough to show explicitly to the player, warts and all. Just my two cents, can't really think of any more convincing reason to hide the tracking from the player.

  • Bleemo #101 2 years ago

    Pretty amazing to be honest, if only one of those ideas was made into a good game it would be awesome. I am totally feeling the potential of an Elder Scrolls type game with this interface.

  • immateriaux #102 2 years ago

    The Elder Scrolls thing is a real draw for this alright, it just fits so well. I wasn't expecting much, half heartedly pressed play for that video, but got drawn in in no time. Really appreciate the up front "it can't do this" stuff at the start which is massively refreshing. But lots of great stuff in there. The "sheet of plastic" thing was brilliant in itself, responsive and believable. Brought alive the potential there for adding a proper level of immersion to a game - not the kind where you actually have to jump up and down to do things - but where your imagination gets pulled into the dimension beyond your TV screen.

    Before seeing that video I had assumed it was just a Sony Wii we would be getting but much more interested and excited about its prospects now.

  • the_inchworm #103 2 years ago

    So Richard Marks (sp) finally got out of Hazard?

  • Gromit #104 2 years ago

    I cannot wait to play with Move. I will get the sports compendium and Kung Fu Riders first, but I can't wait for the day I can get a 3D TV AND use Move on it.

    Can you imagine how awesome that would be ?

  • makeamazing #105 2 years ago

    I think my first move stuff will be LBP2, Socom (which i wasnt really that interested in before), and RE. Already played Heavy Rain to death previously (though the move controls look great), i dont think i could play through the game again :)

  • mkreku #106 2 years ago

    I play most of my games on my PC but I also own an Xbox 360. I am much more impressed with Move than I am with Kinect. What kind of fanboy does that make me? I am confused.

  • Murton #107 2 years ago

    @ makeamazing

    I'll be waiting on the next Resi as I already played this one to death and probably won't play again for Move controls, I saved myself a couple Heavy Rain playthroughs waiting for the controller though.

    I'm keeping an open mind on the Move games library at the moment and hoping that Sony do the smart thing and make a decent show of Full Game Trials and demos when they launch the controller.

  • HisDudness #108 2 years ago

    I think the prevailing notion that these tech demos look cool and have great possibilities is correct. However, it is also true that we need to wait and see what kind of traction this tech gets with the game developers. Sony, because of its vast in house game development resources, is well positioned to produce these "killer app" titles that everyone needs as a reason to buy into Move. I think that summer next year, we'll have a much better indication of whether these cool tech demos will translate into something substantial for game players. But I have to admit it's pretty exciting.

    On the other hand if word of mouth spreads that Move is the superior way to control online shooters like Socom and Killzone, than I have no choice but to jump in...

  • dsmx #109 2 years ago

    Well sony have managed to get EA on board with tiger woods so there definitely is some traction there, it also depends on the dev tools sony sends out as well.

  • Geordiemp #110 2 years ago

    At least they can have 2 versions of the conrols 4 each game on a disk or via download, so they are not fragmenting the community or user base.

    To have games that are MOVE + Dualshock makes sense.

    Still want a good star wars light saber game, really the main interest and what I thought the wii would deliver (but did not).
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 19:43

  • man.the.king #111 2 years ago

    @theonlyix

    "If someone is abandoning the core players, it sure is Sony. Forcing motion controls on people who love playing with the controller...... They try to make their "move" unreplaceable. Just imagine IF the Move is better for FPS than standard controller, how people with std controllers will have to cash up for Move to be competable, or worst for sony would be the other way around. "

    Considering you only ever play on the XBox 360, why are you are so worried about Sony's core audience?
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 21:50

  • man.the.king #112 2 years ago

    @mkreku

    "What kind of fanboy does that make me? I am confused. "

    A non-fanboy? ;)

  • dsmx #113 2 years ago

    Someone who likes playing games, move certainly has shown games. Unlike Microsoft.

  • ThePissartist #114 2 years ago

    Kung-Fu Live looks hilarious.

    Not in a good way.

  • Zero Beat #115 2 years ago

    [link url=http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-playstation-3 /54366
    ]http://ww w.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-...[/link]

    @ 1:20 and 1:34

    This dark adventure game looks the business.

  • dsmx #116 2 years ago

    That vid shows move tracking legs as well as arms, it's more about showing that move can do it rather than the game looking bad.

  • Zero Beat #117 2 years ago

    Arguing about leg tracking is pointless considering it's not a good gaming input to begin with.

  • 3william56 #118 2 years ago

    Blimey. Potential is astonishing, but as folks have said - if all we get is wii clones, it will flop.

    If Travellers Tales see this, and don't nick the wand casting and lego building for Lego Harry Potter 2, they're insane. Can't imagine Insomniac won't have something fantastic into the next Ratchet and Clank. A few like that, and get the gun control in KZ3 or SOCOM right, and it will swiftly go from a Eyetoy also-ran to essential core kit.

    One for me for Xmas I reckon.

  • 3william56 #119 2 years ago

    Des, like Microsoft you're mistaking a technical inability (tracking body parts in 3D) for something useful in a game. Until Kinect shows why knowing where my knees are in 3D space translates into an essential game experience (compared with the speed, precision and flexibility shown here, which is), who is going to care?

  • himmelsturmerIX #120 2 years ago

    Amazing creation potential. Integrate it with creation tool in mod nation racer or LBP and sit back and watch what the community comes up with.

  • Geordiemp #121 2 years ago

    Watch this

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OpnvR_j5nBc
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OpnvR_j5nBc
    [/link]

    PS eye (and therefore Move) can do tracking of legs and feet, see him kick the discs half way through......Its just not a 3D tracking BODY sensor, only 2 D.

    Hence, allot of the natal games could be done on move as well as holding a gun !

  • IronGiant #122 2 years ago

    If Sony have sense they will send that guy with those demos to the EG expo so we can see them first hand! :)

  • ThePissartist #123 2 years ago

    @dsmx

    It's not tracking legs in the way Kinect does, it's merely tracking movement. It doesn't understand that a leg is a leg, or an arm is an arm. Kung Fu Live is capturing the movement in the video and any sharp movements will cause it 'attack' the NCPs.

    Essentially, it is performing the same function as that god awful game that MS released on the Xbox camera about a year or so ago.

    I'm not agruing whether Kinect is better than Move, but if Kinect were to have the same game (which it won't), it would be able to map the movements onto an ingame character and alleviating the need to kick or punch sideways and therefore look away from the screen. Different technology.

  • gorf #124 2 years ago

    The technology looks like the runtchild of the Wii and 360 Techs with novelty of niether.
    Edited by 1 at 26/07/10 @ 13:11

  • Nighthawk_08 #125 2 years ago

    @gorf

    go and die you waste of spunk

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #126 2 years ago

    @ThePissartist

    It's tracking your body in 2d. The developers of the freemotion technology used in the game have not only said so, but have shown it. Kinect uses it's depth sensors to do the same thing in 3d via software. It's not an x-ray camera, so therefore it can't actually track your joints. What it does is capture your movement with the RGB camera, like the Pseye, but with the help of the depth sensors to judge depth and translate that in reference to a 3d virtual skeleton created via software.

  • ThePissartist #127 2 years ago

    @twitchy

    I can track your joints and I don't need x-ray. Your message is confused and partially inaccurate. Kinect really only is slightly similar to the PS-Eye; in that they both contain an RGB camera, that is it. I'd be more than happy to explain further if i had the time.

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #128 2 years ago

    @ThePissartist

    These are the specs I see for both cameras.

    PSEye
    Camera:
    640×480 pixels @ 60 Hz
    320×240 pixels @ 120 Hz
    75° maximum viewing angle

    Microphone:
    Four-module array
    16-bit audio
    48khz sampling rate
    Active noise control (background cancellation)
    Voice recognition

    Kinect
    Camera:
    640×480 pixels @ 30 Hz (main camera)
    320×240 (depth-sensor IR camera)
    57° maximum viewing angle

    Microphone:
    Four-module array
    16-bit audio
    16khz sampling rate
    Active noise control (background cancellation)
    Voice recognition

    What does Kinect have aside from its depth sensors that isn't in the Pseye, that isn't done via software? You can always link me info if you don't have time to explain.

  • ThePissartist #129 2 years ago

    @twitchy

    I never stated it wasn't through software. Now I ask you; is your Sky HD box the same as your PC? Is a homosapien the same as a monkey?

    Yes, both the PS-Eye and Kinect contain a camera and microphone - as you state there's also a depth sensor in Kinect. But, as I'm sure you already know, they really are completely different beasts.

    There do seem to be rather a lot of PS owners that state Kinect is the same as the PS-Eye and you seem to be perpetuating that. Most probably you know better, too. You can keep playing the fool, that's fine - I'm happy to continue stating my opinion on both pieces of hardware without bias.

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #130 2 years ago

    @ThePissartist

    Look at this video and tell me if you see a 3d object moving in 3d, with video that's being captured by a 2d camera.

    <a href="http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=gOtPVof2K94
    ">http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=gOtPVof2K94
    </a>

    I'm not saying both are the same, I'm saying they can do the same thing. Just that one device will have a harder time doing so.

    Edited by 1 at 26/07/10 @ 22:47

  • ThePissartist #131 2 years ago

    They cannot do the same thing.

    Your video contains software derived from a digital camera, with a 3d overlay. What's special?

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #132 2 years ago

    "Your video contains software derived from a digital camera, with a 3d overlay. What's special?"

    Just going by what I see, what's special is the 3d object (a head) being moved and manipulated in 3d with the person's head. Couldn't they remove the person from the background and maybe even flip the 3d object? And couldn't they do the same thing with the rest of the body? Maybe they could even create a virtual skeleton that restricts the movement of the 3d object (in this case the body).

    As a matter of fact that reminds me. At one time I asked one of the developers of kung fu live if it was possible to use their freemotion technology (the 2d body tracking software) with a 3d object. He said yeah they could, but it would be difficult to do with a 2d camera. He didn't say it wasn't possible.
    Edited by 1 at 27/07/10 @ 01:05

  • ThePissartist #133 2 years ago

    Why not chose to do it then? Would it be able to track the legs/arms in 3D space without using the PS Wand(s)?

    I suspect you work for Sony, right?

  • Arwin #134 2 years ago

    If you start saying stuff like 'you probably work for ... right?', you've lost an argument, no matter whether your right or not!

    Anyway, Kinect's ability to track full body motion in 3D space is far superior to anything you could attain with a normal camera, let there be no doubt about that. The camera isn't actually infrared, it contains an infrared projector that projects a grid of light on the scene which it reads back using a 16bit greyscale CMOS camera with a resolution of 320x240 to determine the distance between objects and the camera, which while having a low resolution, has very high quailty intensity data. (Some argue its monochrome camera is 640x480, but because of the projected grid, but we know the end result is a depth map with a resolution of 320x240 so it matters little).

    This grid is mapped to a simulated model of a human skeleton. The model has 19-20 joints and the depth map is heuristically combined with knowledge about what kind of movement is possible with the human body to determine its current position (as well as provide developers predictions on active movement).

    Infrared is not perfect for this purpose, but it is far superior than regular light. Kinect should basically work in very dark lighting conditions and its only real weakness in terms of image detection is that some fabric can absorb or diffuse infrared light (a leather jacket for instance causes problems, but not necessarily black clothing per se (someone tested this at one of the Macy's demoes in the U.S.). It's also less likely to be thrown off by other light sources.

    You can argue all you like, but this kind of functionality cannot be replicated by the PS Eye to nearly the same extent.

    What you could argue, is that at least for upper-body tracking, if combined with two Move controllers the Eye can do at least a very similar job. If lighting conditions are good enough the PS Eye (as has been shown) can track the eyes and mouth, and using that can triangulate the distance and orientation of a face from the screen. Combined with the exact position of the Move controllers (which in precision movement and orientation detection far exceed Kinect), you can fairly well extrapolate where the head, arms, and therefore body is in space, and what their orientation is. I think The Fight: Lights Out is probably the best example of this, showing a fairly accurate representation of the complete upper body movement.

    However, Kinect's prowess comes at a cost, and for me, that's the capability to really enhance games. If you look at what you do in your daily activities, your limbs are used the most starting with your fingers and going up from there. The stuff that you use your legs for outside of walking and running is far more limited. Contrast this with the amount of useful input methods like pointing, squeezing, pressing buttons and turning your wrist and far better and lag-free precision of movement in space, and Kinect's ability to be able to point only with your whole arm, or need to add affect to a bowling ball by moving your arm to the left or right at the end of the throw rather than emulating the wrist action of real life seems rather poor. I don't know if superior dancing, fitness and other games that actually benefit from full body tracking are going to be able to make up for that (or maybe I do know ... ).

    Which is not to say that Kinect could get some really brilliant experiences regardless, but I expect them to be few and far inbetween, certainly compared to what Move is already doing. I think Kinect may still sell really well as a superior fitness device or dancing instruction, etc., but for gaming in general, Move is going to be the tech to beat for the next few years. Less than two months, can't wait!

    (ok, Sony, now where's that cheque! ;) )
    Edited by 1 at 27/07/10 @ 09:32

  • ThePissartist #135 2 years ago

    Just because I've observed that someone works for a company does not mean I've 'lost an argument'. That's silly, I agree with most of everything else you state, mind.

    I'd be interested to see how The Fight: Lights Out works when you're holding the wands the boxing defence position, as the glowing balls are likely to be obscured by the hands.

    I absolutely agree that in practice implementation of both devices will be different. I honestly don't see my two-year-old son being able to play Move for a few years, but I can definitely see him playing on Kinect games. For me personally, that's quite exciting.

  • ThePissartist #136 2 years ago

    @gordiemp

    That video is very poor. It in no way demonstrates the Eye-toy is anything like Kinect.

    I just checked a The Fight: Lights Out video and it looks as if defence is controlled by a button press (as opposed to performing the actual move); because the character does the action whereas the player does not. It also doesn't look like it's one-to-one tracking of movements. Looks interesting, but I think Move is capable of more.

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=tYCyurpCuds
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=tYCyurpCuds
    [/link]

  • ThePissartist #137 2 years ago

    Actually looking at it again, the game doesn't get much right. Looks like they're all pre-canned animations. Also, check around the 1:15 point. Surely, it can't be using the same software that Richard Marks demonstrates? Maybe it's just an old video...

  • Arwin #138 2 years ago

    That is correct, the early version had gesture recognition rather than 1:1 movement. A lot of people complained about that (including me) and subsequently they changed the game to use 1:1 movement instead.

    Here's a more recent demo being played by someone (who is obviously a trained fighter, albeit maybe not a boxer ;) ) on the E3 2010 show floor.

    http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=jA90Lf78n...

    Though he's wiping the floor with the AI opponent, so no defense visible.
    Edited by 1 at 27/07/10 @ 22:35

  • ThePissartist #139 2 years ago

    I started reading up on Move a bit more and I stumbled across this video:

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=1S0wWoDz9nQ
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=1S0wWoDz9nQ
    [/link]

    The video was taken last month at E3.

    It appears to be using the same demo that Richard uses (is it him in the background?). Obviously, you can disregard the first few seconds (resizing), but it does highlight that Move definitely does NOT track anything other than the user's face and the wands, so it's only ever a vague approximation- (as the arm position is only guessed from the position/angle of the wands. Actually a bit disappointing.

    I think Move is VERY good at tracking two objects in space (being the wands), incredibly accurately, but it is misleading to state that it's capable of doing the same as Kinect.

    I don't believe The Fight video you link to is tracking one-to-one.

    BUT I would like to own Move.

  • TwitchyMcTwitch #140 2 years ago

    @ ThePissartist
    Nope, I'm not working for sony. I was posting what I thought was possible based on what a developer said. Which from the looks of it, I may have misunderstood. Here is the link where a few of us were asking questions about the game I mentioned and someone posted a video of, kung fu live.

    <a href="http://tinyurl. com/kungfuliveblogpost
    ">http://tinyurl. com/kungfuliveblogpost
    </a>

    Here's two quick quotes of what he was talking about:

    " Teemu Maki-Patola | May 27th, 2010 at 3:21 am
    Using the move sticks with the full-body image this would be no problem. Without them, there are moments when the mapping is e.g. ambiguous in 3D based on what the camera sees in 2D."

    " Teemu Maki-Patola | May 27th, 2010 at 3:37 am
    Using the Move sticks in addition, this will work. Without them, an always right & completely working one-to-one mapping is hard to achieve from a 2D camera frame. We also wanted to go for the experience of a personal Kung-Fu adventure, where the player is empowered and can do things that he/she cannot in real life."

    I thought he was saying its not completely impossible, just that its difficult to get working perfectly.

    "I absolutely agree that in practice implementation of both devices will be different."

    That's actually what I was trying to get at. That both devices would have different ways of achieving the same or at the least similar results. Doesn't both devices have to feed information of what they "see" to their respective console? And doesn't each console have to interpret and match whats "seen" to a 3d or 2d object in a 3d or 2d environment? I thought one would of course have a MUCH easier time doing so, then the other.

    "I honestly don't see my two-year-old son being able to play Move for a few years, but I can definitely see him playing on Kinect games. For me personally, that's quite exciting. "

    Well, that's all that matters right? If you perceive kinect to offer you the best value then by all means enjoy. Just as I see move to be the better value for me.

    @Arwin
    Thanks for the info!
    Edited by 3 at 28/07/10 @ 00:33

  • ThePissartist #141 2 years ago

    @twitchy

    You're misreading what he's saying - it is difficult to impossible without the wands. I can hypothesize what the likely result will be too.

    Assuming there's a 3D character representing you in the game and you're being viewed by the Eye-Toy. You're facing the camera (which is a requirement) and punch sideways; it's possible the result will be the character punching as expected. However, if you punch towards the camera it will have no effect, as there are no limbs moving away from the moving body. I suspect if you kick towards the camera, the character's leg will simply get shorter.

  • Arwin #142 2 years ago

    @ThePissartist: congrats, my son is also two. :) These little guys are just amazing aren't they?

    I honestly don't see any difference between Kinect and Move for kids of his age in anything other than details. Every once in a while I let him try things like Home (which for some reason he seems to love) and he got pretty close to understanding the analog sticks, knowing what to do to make the character turn. Kids are extremely clever and dextrous that way. The biggest downside for Move I think would be that he could be tempted to hit the TV with it or throw it somewhere if the wrist-strap doesn't hold on his tiny hand, but fortunately the ball on the Move is squishy and the controller very light.

    In all other aspects, though, the biggest barrier will be grasping the abstraction of holding something in your hand that controls something in the screen. He's been absolutely brilliant with the iPod Touch since I got that last christmas - this kind of interfacing is by far the easiest for him, as it resembles moving things in real life just about one-to-one. Kinect and Move will be a bit more difficult, but I predict it won't be long before one of the games out there will suit him just fine. An advantage that the Move has is that it can act better as a 'magic mirror', as you see in games like Start the Party or EyePet, where you see yourself along with the game in the TV.

    Why don't we come back here or somewhere else in the near future and post the things our kids successfully interact with to compare? ;) I have a 360 as well, but right now I'm not using it in the living room and I have my doubts about even being able to set it up properly in my rather small livingroom, to be honest. It's not even certain that Kinect will properly track really small children either - you may have to adjust the camera's settings and aim to get as close a view as the projector supports (something like 1.6m or so). In that respect, all that's needed for the Move controller to work is that he needs to have it in the view of the camera, which should be easy enough.
    Edited by 1 at 28/07/10 @ 10:15

  • ThePissartist #143 2 years ago

    Interestingly enough, I too have put my boy in front of my games machine (Xbox 360) and filmed the result – he loves it. I tried again more recently and he now understands that moving the left analogue controls the ball (XLA game with a name I cannot remember...), but he’s only controlling the ball off the edge, repeatedly (along with suitably amusing sound effects). He only turned two last month, so he’s still got a lot to learn. I totally agree that it’s the abstraction that’s most difficult for them.

    He absolutely LOVES the iPhone; some of the applications for toddlers are great.

    Re: posting comments – I’m game.

  • BlinxHDD #144 2 years ago

    Kinect doesn't work properly with small children because their limbs aren't distinct enough from the torso. Similar problem to baggy clothing and skirts/kilts. :p

  • ThePissartist #145 2 years ago

    @Blinx

    I'm looking at my son and his arms look quite distinct from his body to me. Actually, I'd say his arm/leg length to torso ratio is the same as mine. His head is larger compared to his body, but that's it.

    I would imagine Kinect could pick him up, it's be like looking at an adult that's a bit further away.