DiRT 2 demo: PS3/Xbox 360 performance showdown Comments by Richard Leadbetter

"However, during in-game, you can easily be forgiven for not noticing so much of the tearing on the PS3 version, and it is an interesting example of how the mathematical certainties of automated analysis do not always tally with the perceptions of the human eye. Sometimes a game simply looks cleaner than it actually is... it's all about the context."

Truth.

Looks like this should be a treat if it runs as well as GRID does on my PC, 1080p 8xAA 60fps v-synced goodness.

Shame its been delayed for Directx 11, will be interesting to see if that adds anything.

Saying that I has a go on the 360 Demo and its looking god to me.

Well, I guess I got a proper explanation to the question I asked in another comments thread a few weeks ago - why the sometimes ridiculously high "torn frames" percentages are often far beyond what I'm actually noticing with my own eyes during gameplay.

Has Nick got PMT today?

Whoops! Sorry guys, I didn't drop the latch on the ward's door last night. We're rounding them back up as quickly as we can.

"Has Nick got PMT today? "

Much worse, than that he has SFBR (Sony Fan Boy Rage).

There is 2 cures:
1, Buying a 360 and actually realising it is good.
2, Getting a Girlfriend which gives you better thing to concentrate on.

So which is it going to be?

"Yeah mark my posts down, the truth hurts don't it. This shit belongs on system wars. But then again Eurogamer is full to the brim with fanboys so I guess they're feeding you what you want."

The only truth that hurts is that you're an idiot and that need to take a good look in the mirror.

I thought the demo was a load of crap on both systems, the series used to be a great rally game now it's a fat turd with monster trucks and red necks, no thanks.

Both demos are technically impressive and visually gorgeous but the Xbox 360 is the marginally better of the two as I didn't notice ANY screen tear when I tested it last night, not even during the replays on the busy Baja event. The PS3 version was fine for the Moroccan trailblazer event but the Baja multi-vehicle race had noticeable tear during packed corners and during the replays. Both consoles have significantly less tearing than the original DiRT so that's excellent.

Ultimately though for me the decision for which version to buy (PC version isn't out while December so it's not a current contender) came down to the controller (I don't like steering wheels!) and the 360's is the one I prefer as it has superb triggers and tighter, more precise analogue sticks.

"Exclusives can't be counted as they can't be compared! Fact! "

lol...

Next week Digitalfoundry investigate the quality of the ink on the box art.
And are shocked to discover the Ps3 version suffers from slight smearing.
And then wash their hands every 15 minutes.









I'm not being serious you know.

Darren:- From previous posts i know you have a well spec'ed PC so why not just wait? Personnally I prefer to wait for better versions and in the case if its anything like GRID on the 360/PS3 vs PC it was night and day difference. You probably know that you can use a 360 controller on the PC too.

Maybe I am just more patient, it just ssems a waste to build such a great machine then play worse versions of games on the consoles.

As for things only being noticable if paused and zoomed, this isn't strictly true, yes DF may zoom on a small part of the screen to show a point, but if there is a similar effect accross the whole screen it can make a difference even if its only subtle. With that if you have the choice of 2 versions you may aswell get the better one even if it is only subtle differences.

PS3 looks better 360 has a blurred look compared.

Plus with PS3 version you can take screenshots which 360 doesnt do.

I'm with the naysayers - I really can't see how picking over tiny differences between versions benefits anyone.

Are you kidding me?

Even without the vsync, nobody will tell or care about the difference between both versions while playing the game!

However, during in-game, you can easily be forgiven for not noticing so much of the tearing on the PS3 version, and it is an interesting example of how the mathematical certainties of automated analysis do not always tally with the perceptions of the human eye. Sometimes a game simply looks cleaner than it actually is... it's all about the context.

What's this rubbish about human perception?

How about this for context: It's a video game FFS! It is all about human perception! If people can't tell about a 5 frame drop every 20 seconds, then I'd say it's a job well done!


What are people to understand from all this? From now on, people with both consoles are going to make purchasing decisions based on frame drops?

"Yeah, I have both consoles, and now that I read in a technical article that the PS3 version tears just a little bit more, I want the 360 version. Although someone playing it won't be able to notice, the PS3 version is vastly inferior!"

If you can't tell what's wrong about the above statement, then there is something wrong with you.

So, there are people on here saying this is a waste of time (being marked down) and a bunch of people saying it's not (being marked up).

Stalemate?

Even though the differences is minor. Im not a person that could live with having the sligthly inferior version. LoL.

We have been over this so many times. Unless the game is ground up from the PS3 it is not going to win a faceoff on a PC calibrated game. Enough said. Well, heh, unless sony improves their toolset and frees up some more memory and then even you are considering the SPU's after the fact you have already went down the straight up PC as of now approach.

@muscleblade: Even though the differences is minor. Im not a person that could live with having the sligthly inferior version.

Hate to tell you this, but that's what people mean by OCD in the comments above. Anyway, you're only looking at the graphics... I would say that the compatibility with the best force feedback steering wheel on the market, plus a quieter console with free online gaming service, more than makes up for a couple of imperceptible torn frames.

... Unless the game is ground up from the PS3 it is not going to win a faceoff on a PC calibrated game...

Depends what your criteria for winning is. There have been many occasions where both versions have equal faults (Fallout 3), and rare occasions where the PS3 has 'won' (Oblivion).

The PC version of GRID was far better for one thing for me and one thing only - Framerate. The console versions use an horrendous implementation of motion blur. Much the same as Project Gotham racing. Sure on the flat appex of a racing track motion blur is not that intrusive.

However switching to one of the city tracks makes vertical apex very difficult to judge with precision as they appear a blurry, juddering mess. It was the same with the cones in PGR 3/4 racing - an eye-watering experience for sure.

I prefer any racer that hits 60fps as opposed to 30fps with motion blur...

It's all relative too. It depends on whether the person playing has an eye for the the tearing and frame rate drops, no matter how small. I work in TV, and over the course of several years have trained my eye to spot aliasing, spatial patterning and frame rate issues(with badly made motion effects in my case). I wish to god I could untrain myself when watching tv, films and playing games, but what may be minor, unnoticable glitches to most, can be very jarring for me - especially aliasing and frame rate issues - it can definitely break the immersion at times.

I may be an extreme example, but there are enough people that will notice these things to a greater or lesser extent - whether they work in the tv/film/games industry or just play so many games that they start to notice these things. As an owner of both consoles, I will yet again stand by these articles, I find them quite useful. Less so when the difference is ridiculously slight, but for the occassional game like Ghostbusters, they can be a bloody godsend!

Edit: typo :/

"Even though the differences is minor. Im not a person that could live with having the sligthly inferior version. "

I must admit I am the same, hence why I am a PC gamer.

"Hate to tell you this, but that's what people mean by OCD in the comments above. Anyway, you're only looking at the graphics... I would say that the compatibility with the best force feedback steering wheel on the market, plus a quieter console with free online gaming service, more than makes up for a couple of imperceptible torn frames."

Good point, the differences in most of these cases aren't enought to make you buy the other console, if you only own one of the consoles then its easy to pick. In your case having that steering wheel does make sense for you to get it on the PS3 much like some people buy on a console because they prefer the controller of which ever console for that type of game.

It only comes down to people who own both consoles, and in this case why put up with more torn frames if you don't have too?

EarlBassett: EG, stop running this useless bullshit.
This is a gaming site not a technicians forum.
To be fair to them, you're reading the Digital Foundry part of the site, which does seem to be a technicians' forum.

This is so pointless it is untrue.
and to do it on a demo is bordering on self-parody

Well, you have to remember... the people at Digital Foundry have built a career out of trying to prove that the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3 in terms of graphics. I see two flaws in their business model:

1. Hardly anyone is interested - only people with OCD who desperately want to validate their decision buy an Xbox 360 instead of a PS3... or people with OCD who have both consoles and desperately want to avoid buying the 'inferior' version. the vast majority of people commenting in these threads complain about what a great big waste of time this is and only a handful defend it.

2. Their work has rather dried up of late, as the differences are harder and harder to spot. When the differences were not obvious to the naked eye in screenshots, they started producing videos... when the differences in those videos were invisible, they bought an expensive video capture machine to produce HD video prrof... and when that wasn't enough, they built/bought a machine that would analyse the output and show us a graph of dropped/torn frames. I have to wonder what's next? Signed & witnessed affadavits from the developers? The Richard Leadbetter Show on cable (next to all the religious ones)?

For now, they're pretty much stuck with paying for all this expensive equipment, and the salaries of anyone involved in Digital Foundry. In a recession, this is an interesting business decision, but I suppose they must be generating clicks, so they've no reason to stop.

"For now, they're pretty much stuck with paying for all this expensive equipment, and the salaries of anyone involved in Digital Foundry"

Lol. They sell services to games companies you muppet.

All of this is relative.

In the beginning it served a purpose, some ps3 multi platform games played badly and underperformed compared to the 360 or PC versions. However nearly every game released now is pretty close on both versions, so much so that only the most OCD of the population would complain, and it certainly wouldn't affect purchasing decisions of the masses.

There is nothing wrong with doing a comparison when a sub stand game is released and explaining why it doesn't cut the mustard, but otherwise just tell us its the same with a screenshot or vid as relevant to back up the claim and leave it at that.

If there is no obviously apparent visual or game engine performance differences this type of article is just a waste of everyone's time.

Good point, the differences in most of these cases aren't enought to make you buy the other console, if you only own one of the consoles then its easy to pick. In your case having that steering wheel does make sense for you to get it on the PS3 much like some people buy on a console because they prefer the controller of which ever console for that type of game.

It only comes down to people who own both consoles, and in this case why put up with more torn frames if you don't have too?

I agree, but you made the point yourself above - it's not just the G25 wheel compatibility that makes me go for the PS3 version, it's the whole PS3 being quiet, having a UI that I prefer, having online multiplayer that I don't have to pay for, and so on.

When the torn frames are obvious, you're right - I certainly won't put up with them and will get the Xbox 360 version instead... but, to be honest, that hasn't happened with any game I've bought in the last year.

Lol. They sell services to games companies you muppet.

I realise that, but I suspect business is slow there too... and articles like this are an attempt to advertise their services.

Digitalfoundry motto- You don't need bionic eyes to work here,but it helps.

I will not be satisfied till DF investigate the DNA of the various developers.
Lets settle this once and for all.

It's a bit like looking over the Mona Lisa with a microscope and saying... "ah, you see... he smudged the paint a bit there - FAIL!".

Not always. Its easy to see that Ghostbusters, Assassins Creed and Batman AA looks a lot less fantastic on the PS3.
And its psykologically not fun to know that there is a better looking version of the same game on another system that also has a much better controller.

I find these articles of at least some interest as the two HD consoles of this generation are far closer in capabilities than it ever has been in other generations. There was a gulf between coded-for-PS2 and coded-for-Xbox games, and the Gamecube shined on several occasions (Mario Sunshine being one).

Far from seeing these as fanboy fodder (although some fanboys are so daft they'll leap on anything as proving their case / displaying TEH OBVEEUS BIAS) these are about shaming developers who do a poor job (like with Ghostbusters) and those who are doing a pretty bloody good job, actually (Codemasters, in this case).

The differences are barely noticeable? Then that's something to celebrate! \o/

For those of us that have both consoles this was a useful review although in this case the differences are so slight it really doesn't sway me one way or the other. Personally i will be getting this on the PS3 due to more folk on my friends list expressing an interest, and not for any other reason. Demo is great, looking forward to getting Dirty

@m0thr4

Installing the games to the 360 Elite makes it just as quit as the PS3 and i dont use a steering wheel. I dont care that much about graphics tbh but shouldnt the PS3 be the best console out there when it comes to graphics.

@muscleblade Not always. Its easy to see that Ghostbusters, Assassins Creed and Batman AA looks a lot less fantastic on the PS3.
See... I was with you until Batman AA, where I compared the demos on my Xbox 360 and PS3 and really couldn't see any differences.

And its psykologically not fun to know that there is a better looking version of the same game on another system that also has a much better controller.
I think if it affects you psychologically, then you probably need psychological help. OCD is a serious condition and I wasn't necessarily being flippant when I mentioned it above.

Btw, I prefer the PS3 controller to the Xbox 360 controller.

And you cry foul cos you don't like the results? Well go fuck yourself then! Fuck off from this website and don't come back. Its a fucking FACT that nearly all multiplatform games look and run better on Xbox 360. A fucking FACT! Don't argue with facts, you fucking idiots. These guys know what their doing. I've never seen a developer lash out at Digital Foundry and say that they're lying. Yet fanboys do it all the time. Bollocks!

Another rabid XBox fanboy pleased with the "informative service". Go masturbate with your Zune HD you twat.

@muscleblade: Installing the games to the 360 Elite makes it just as quit as the PS3
Nope - disagree completely. Show me proof and I'll eat my words, but my 360, with a Talismoon Whisper fan that is a good deal quieter than the stock fan is still more than twice as loud as my PS3.

and i dont use a steering wheel.
Once you've used the G25 for driving games, there's no going back to a pad... but ignorance is bliss, I supposed.

I dont care that much about graphics tbh but shouldnt the PS3 be the best console out there when it comes to graphics.

No, there are fairly sound technical reasons why the PS3 has a serious disadvantage when it comes to graphics. That it manages to hold its own so well against the Xbox 360 despite this, in so many recent games, is a testament to the skill of some video game developers.

Retroid has a very good point. I just find it funny that so many people thought that the PS3 would be the most powerful console when it comes to graphics this gen. Much better than the 360 actually. That they turned out to be equal when it comes to exclusives and that on multiplaform titles the 360 usually has the edge surprised a lot of people. Here in Norway most people are still convinced that the PS3 is far better than the 360 even though its not true at all.

@SomeRandomNoiseGenerator: And you cry foul cos you don't like the results? Well go fuck yourself then! Fuck off from this website and don't come back. Its a fucking FACT that nearly all multiplatform games look and run better on Xbox 360. A fucking FACT! Don't argue with facts, you fucking idiots. These guys know what their doing. I've never seen a developer lash out at Digital Foundry and say that they're lying. Yet fanboys do it all the time. Bollocks!

So... nobody cried foul, nobody disputed the results. It's just that the results are so thin you could floss your teeth with them, begging the question, was it really worth publishing the article?

Seriously, they're comparing demos now? What is the practical use of that information? That it's going to save me a couple of minutes downloading a demo for free?

"That they turned out to be equal when it comes to exclusives"

Really? The analysis of Uncharted 1+2, Wipeout HD, Killzone 2 and Halo ODST would kinda point to the PS3 having more technicaly impressive exclusives, according to DF.

"I think if it affects you psychologically, then you probably need psychological help. "

Of course not. No need for that. I have a 360 with the best looking version. If i had a PS3 i would just trade it in for a 360. OCD problem solved. LOL.

Btw: Regarding Batman AA - wait for the face off and you see what i mean.

We all accept that the PS3 suffers against 360 to varying degrees in multiplat games.
But is it really newsworthy?.By all means have a DF section, but to have an article about a demo being almost unnoticeably
worse than another, unless you use certain techniques, is just comical.

Btw: Regarding Batman AA - wait for the face off and you see what i mean.

I don't need to see the face off, as I already know what it's going to say: "Xbox 360 version runs in full 4x AA while PS3 version runs with something less than that. Xbox 360's frame rate is better than the PS3's and has fewer torn frames. Torn frames on the PS3 version are hardly noticeable and it doesn't affect the gameplay, and the PS3 version does have significatn exclusive content that the Xbox 360 version doesn't have. You pays your money, you makes your choice... blah blah blah".

Of course not. No need for that. I have a 360 with the best looking version. If i had a PS3 i would just trade it in for a 360. OCD problem solved. LOL.

LOL at the way you completely missed my other description of OCD.