In Theory: How Microsoft could build a new 360 for 2010
It's unlikely, but there are precedents and possibilities. Digital Foundry investigates.
So the cat's out of the bag or thereabouts. Xbox bosses will wish he hadn't, but Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says that a "new Xbox" bundled with, or even integrating, the Project Natal 3D camera will launch in 2010, just days after the company distanced itself from talk of a new machine. Bearing in mind this is the same firm that refused to confirm the existence of the Xbox 360 Arcade SKU even when photos showing the packaging in actual shops appeared online, this is clearly something of an unplanned turn of events at best, a marketing disaster at worst.
The news first emerged when 1UP carried a story claiming the existence of new Xbox hardware in its most recent podcast, tantalising its audience by promising that along with bundled Project Natal, the console itself would be an enhanced, more powerful but still backwards-compatible version of the current 360 architecture, something I was quick to dismiss in a follow-up blog post on the Digital Foundry channel.
But does the 1UP story have more substance than we give it credit for, bearing in mind the timing of Ballmer's bombshell just days later? Is there really no smoke without fire? Bearing in mind that the Xbox 360 will be a veteran in console terms by the time Natal comes to market, is there any argument or indeed precedent for boosting the specs of the machine? Traditionally, Sony has introduced the replacement to its current PlayStation five years after launch, so why not Microsoft too? More to the point, is there any evidence in development circles that hints that the new Xbox will be anything other than a mid-life revision of the existing hardware?
Such revisions are, of course, nothing new. The Atari VCS was remodelled into the Atari 2600 primarily for marketing reasons, and a 2700 version with wireless controllers was even developed (but never released owing to its comedic garage-opening side effects). Moving forward a generation or two, the SEGA Mega Drive went through a massive array of changes, both for cost-cutting reasons (Mega Drive II) and for additional flexibility and functionality, culminating in its ultimate evolution as both a handheld (Nomad) and a gloriously gonzo console-cum-portable CD player (Multimega).
More recently, with the PlayStation and PlayStation 2, we've seen a bewildering range of product revisions, culminating with slim versions made possible by integrating custom silicon spread across multiple chips into single dies, resulting in smaller, cooler machines - but all retaining the basic functionality. Moving into the here and now, the PS3 has been subject to cost-cutting within months of its launch - its integrated PS2 chipset cut down then excised completely for the sake of the bottom line, its hard disk capacity regularly changing over the months depending on the best deal Sony could get on the components.
Most of these precedents suggest that our original thinking with regards the 'new' Xbox 360 are right on the money. Industry pundits' predictions on the evolution of the Xbox 360 hardware have been unerringly accurate, from the Xenon shift to the HDMI-equipped Zephyr, through to the Falcon/Opus and the current, more reliable Jasper. Expected next is the so-called Valhalla chip, to be inserted into a so-far unnamed motherboard. Similar to the slim PS2's merging of Graphics Synthesiser and Emotion Engine, Valhalla sees the GPU and CPU integrated into a single, more power-efficient processor. Originally slated for 2009, Valhalla may well have been pushed back to 2010, thus making its debut in a Natal-equipped "mini" console a distinct possibility. However, bearing in mind that 360 has been revised every year so far, sometimes more than once, it may well be the case that the integrated chip will still launch this year, while a smaller, cooler version based on the 45nm fabrication process will debut in the Natal box in 2010.
But standing out like a sore thumb in terms of established precedents is the mighty Sony PSP. In the transition from the original PSP "Phat" to the slimline PSP-2000, the machine doubled its internal RAM from 32MB to 64MB and added a TV output, while still being cheaper overall to manufacture. Around the same time, Sony also unlocked the full power of the PSP CPU, allowing developers to run it at 333MHz, up from the basic 222MHz stock setting. Indeed, the internal PS1 emulator, running entirely in software, dynamically switches between the speed settings as and when needed. Through a combination of both unlocking the existing hardware and indeed adding to it, today's PSP is a clear step beyond the launch configuration. However, unless you like to use Skype on your handheld, or you're using hacked apps and emulators, it's unlikely you'll notice.
Can we expect anything similar from the Natal revision of the Xbox 360? 1UP seems to think so. It makes the case that Nintendo Wii is essentially a hardware revision of the GameCube: an upgraded, overclocked piece of existing tech designed offer a leap over what has come before while maintaining complete compatibility with the existing library. So, why not 360? It is an intriguing thought, and one that is almost certain to factor into the design of the next Xbox and PlayStation whenever they do actually make an appearance, simply based on the success of the Wii model - a triumph of innovation over raw gaming power.
And there is a shred of evidence that some kind of expansion may be in the offing. It's a matter of fact that Microsoft will soon be shipping 1GB-equipped development kits to studios which will replace the existing 512MB model. While it has hitherto been accepted that this is to aid the development process, it means that the motherboard chipsets (presumably based on the existing Jasper model) do now have compatibility for higher-density RAM chips.
The original 1UP report also suggests that Xbox Natal will be a relatively modest increase in available power, and short of completely engineering and fabricating new silicon, a PSP-style overclock is the best way - probably the only way - to achieve this. Smaller manufacturing processes on the key chips have been used by the PC enthusiast community for years in ekeing out more performance from their gaming hardware. It could work here. To maintain compatibility, the chips could simply be set to the old clockspeed or the new one in software, similar to the way PSP works. In fact, even without changing the speed of the hardware, just a small increase in the size of the onboard 10MB of eDRAM available to the Xenos GPU could also see a big performance boost in new games. Developers would no longer need to "tile" graphics data in and out of the GPU, speeding up the process of effects like anti-aliasing immeasurably. Games that lag due to excessive use of alpha textures (explosions, smoke and the like) would gain a noticeable performance advantage.
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Comments (43) Latest comment 3 years ago
Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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No. Next?
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I try to stay positive and leave nice comments, but I can't see many people finding this interesting. Though it takes all sorts I suppose.
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MS is going to shrink the form factor of the 360 llike was done with the PS1,2,DS,Megadrive,Master System etc. Natal will probably come integrated with the new model. Thanks MS for the pay cheque.
For those that would rather read a more level-headed article without the shameless G.W Bush propaganda --> http://ar stechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/...
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Good article by Digital Foundry addressing whys and why nots of potential hardware bump -- was there any speculation?
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So long as the services on offer (which are OS driven) take advantage of the enhanced tech, and existing software isn't affected, there is no downside.
Let us not forget last October MS announced that the next Xbox would be forwards compatible, and that existing games would be enhanced on that platform.
http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...
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Ugly?
No it isn't.
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If they can make the next iteration of the 360 hardware, or indeed the 360 itself just a quieter, more reliable machine then that'd be perfect. I really like the potential Natal has, and if Peter Molyneux and the like get their act together and actually achieve what they're suggesting then there's a whole new level of gaming soon to be opened up.
So, to summarise, improvements in the behind the scenes stuff rather than purely on graphical flair (highly improved AI, motion tracking as standard, and perhaps even support for 3D displays of some kind), I'd be happy with all that, just please bring it on before 2015... 2010 or 11 seems fine to me and about the right timing, especially if graphics might be left similar to what they are now for a few more years to help incorporate, cheaply, these new standards.
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New chips can be run cooler, faster, contain more in a reduced size, all while costing less to make; including them is a no brainer and a necessity as fabrication plants move(d) from the 360's old 65nm tech in bulk and 32nm production is going better than anyone dared to hope. Apple & Nintendo have made millions rolling out iterative updates - so MS are going to give it a whirl.
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The camera NEEDS to be separate in order to be placed properly. It won't be integraded, it'll be bundled with.
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Nobody - not even nintendo could do head tracking without his help. Without him, a project would be doomed
(and end sarcasm)
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So this could be Microsoft aiming to copy Nintendo's success. Make a new console that is only marginally more powerful and fully backwards compatible with the last, aim for profitability, include a new kind of input device (natal), rebrand from 360 to a different name to make it seem like the new cool thing, market it toward people with casual interest in games.
They might reduce the size of the machine and make it look nice at the cost of losing compatability with 360 hard drives, but making it cheaper to manufacter.
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I just hope he is wrong (I'm just that egoist!). That approach ended up well for Nintendo this generation (they didn't have lots of money after the Gamecube fiasco so they couldn't afford a state-of-the-art new design, so they overclocked the cube and gave it the Wiimote). They made a brave move and succeeded, but they were lucky. Very lucky.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most players start being casual and end up being a little graphic whores. Maybe today the whole market of new wii-players don't care a lot for graphics, but they will eventually. If someone gives people the same user experience and better graphics, people tend to switch loyalties pretty fast. Hell, even my mother (who can't play a DVD without asking for help) notices generation leaps in consoles ("Got a new machine? That looks soooo much better than the stupid thing you were last playing"
So, we need better graphics. True HD experiences (that being 1920x1080@60fps with 4xMSAA). Current consoles struggle to achieve 720p@30fps 2xAA in most demanding games. So the next generation needs to double the number of pixels on screen, double the framerate and allow for 4x multisample antialiasing: Processing power and memory must increase x4, at least.
If any of the big names decides not to make the good old generational leap, it can backfire. Imagine that Sony takes the existing PS3, adds more RAM, beefs up the Cell and RSX as well as including their Motion Controller, and call it PS4. It's just so risky... if MS or Nintendo decide not to follow that route and make a new architecture the generation wars for Sony would be over even before Ps4 was launched.
Just think of the difference between the Wii and the 360/PS3. That is a generational leap. There is no way a beefed-up 360 or PS3 can compete againt technology in 2013 (they can't even compete with last years PCs). The Wii was an exception because motion control was unexpected and people just loved it (a miracle!), it's very unlikely to happen again. Or so I believe.
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double the RAM and graphics... it will be like two ps3's on one motherboard.
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Now we read everything. This is not about a product anymore, it's politics. Check your dns, matey, wrong site.
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hence Sky Anytime support, 1vs100, and the whole NXE.
Natal is merely their attempt at differentiating themselves as they go forward into Wii territory.
They knew if they merely launched a waggle stick and nun-chuck they'd be laughed at, so motion tracking -however unfeasible it is in the majority of games or not, is their USP.
But for it to be a meaningful prospect, they need every 360 owner to upgrade to Natal, or at leas t50% of them in no time.
That either means bundling Natal with every new 360 sold from luanch, or making it dirt cheap.
Frankly the way MS are talking makes it sound exactly like they are going to relaunch the 360 with Natal and essentially sell it as a new system without actually having anything new to offer ebeyond Flapping arms.
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I *TOTALLY* disagree with you there. My opnion is that people "grow out of" wanting graphics over gameplay.
When i was a kid, graphics were all that mattered.. but back then, graphic improvements actually HELPED the gameplay.. Obviously the difference between controlling a dot and pretending it was a car and controlling something which LOOKS like a car is huge.
However, nowadays it matters jack shit in my opinion.
Case in point : Tell me, how would improving the graphics on Super Mario Galaxy - say making them hi def.. How would that improve how it PLAYS exactly?
It wont, it'd make bugger all difference to the game - just will look a bit crisper (and if most 360/ps3 games are anything to go by - have a lower frame rate). Off topic, but personally i'd rather have lower res games runnign at 60fps myself - as the framerate MATTERS to the game itself.
I'm currently playing fallout 3 - love it. But I'd have preferred it if they cut back on the graphical features and had it running at 60fps. Would it look worse if they converted it to the wii - obviously yes... would it play any different? No.
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(before some twat jumps in) yes i know it can detect 3d movement. But I fail to see how it'll be of any use to anything apart from crappy mini game collections similar to the ones for the eye toy.
Hell even the painting program they demoed was nothing the eye toy couldnt have done.
Oh, and that's before i mention the HUGE lag which was happening when that woman was playing that "ball break" game. The game was at least 1 second behind her movement... Watch the video and pause it if you dont believe me.
But yet gamers have once again bought into bullshit marketting hype... and so we repeat...
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The new 360 however will be 100% code compatible with today’s 360. Tomorrows games will work just fine on existing consoles. It will be a new "Elite" type sku. Buying the new “Elite” will be an option for the enthusiast initially and the baseline tech within 2 years. Today's 360 hardware will still remain as the cheaper and casual Natal SKU (aka gamecube to wii scenario). Natal camera will also be bundled with the Elite - but of course the whole sku will come at a premium.
What will the new 360 Elite offer? Today’s ~720p 30fps games will run at 1080p 60fps with more AA. New games will be designed with both Sku's in mind and scale textures and effects, res etc. accordingly. You will buy the one Disc and it will work on a regular 360 and the new 360. Aka 100% compatibility. This will be achieved no different to how PC games have always scaled on countless PC configurations. However with only 2 controlled configurations, full optimisation and stability will be simply acheived, and all will be well.
There were rumblings everywhere a while back about forward scalable games etc. This was exactly the first revel of M$'s strategy going forward. And this strategy will remain the same with all future console upgrades. Developer investment will no longer be thrown out like previous console iteration. Tools, codebase & methods will be as they are today. This is the natural evolution of the console market - zero burden on developers and publishers while facilitating forward movement. The leaks we are seeing here and there, from 1up and Ballmer’s speech are no coincidence.
This of course also beautifully fits the plan of totally eliminating Sony. 2010 will see 360 Elite be leaps and bounds superior to the PS3 and be the logical choice for the high end gamer. Which is what the PS3 is seen as today, High-End, and that niche will be dissolved.
Activision and other publishers are making waves in the press about PS3 pricing, penetration and even dropping support for the Sony platform. All these measures are designed to force Sony's hand to drop the price knowing full well what's around the corner and Sony’s future relevance in the market without drastic price adjustment. Why support a platform that will be irrelevant within 12 months if nothing is done?
Print this out and bury it. I for one am looking forward to playing me some GRID in 1080p, 60fps on my 60" plasma come next year! I am however somewhat concerned about the brutality of M$'s dominance in the market in the future, competition needs to exist to push the envelope.
Muz
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As for my "DNS" erm.... says Eurogamer at the top, but feels like I'm reading.....don't know....random thoughts inside someone's head?
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Yeah....all 3 of them.
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That wouldn't accomplish anything. I just hope they put in enough RAM from the get-go on the next iteration of the console.
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