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David Cage rants about quick-time events News
PlayStation 3 News by Tom Bramwell
Quantic Dream's David Cage pleaded with journalists earlier today to help him shake off the stigma of quick-time events and get the message across that Heavy Rain is properly interactive.
"From what you've seen, you're in control second to second, so please help with me this because some people on the internet just make me crazy," he said at the end of a demonstration in a hotel in Cologne.
"No! We don't make Dragon's Lair! This is not Dragon's Lair - do you think I'm crazy? I'm not stupid. Do you think I develop on PlayStation 3 to do Dragon's Lair again? It would be absurd. Of course it's not.
"So we work on this thing, it's fully controllable, you do what you want. When there is an action sequence, yes we integrate this QTE sequences. We've done it really in a new way, we really started from a blank page again to try to take the best out of this type of interface and find the thrill and excitement and make you feel at the heart of the action.
"Out of four scenes, this is one third of one, so that's the kind of balance we have in the game."
The scene Cage gathered journalists to witness was the first glimpse of Ethan Mars, a single father who blames himself for the death of one of his sons, Jason. In the scene, Mars picks up his other son, Shaun, from his ex-wife, and then looks after him for the evening. This involves getting him something to eat, helping him with his homework and then putting him to bed.
It's fully interactive throughout, as Cage said, with opportunities to behave like a responsible dad or to be severe or to just do nothing, really. After seeing it play out one way Cage showed a video of other possible outcomes. It was all rather poignant.
Although the bit with Mars juggling fruit looked a bit like a QTE. Just saying.
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Coughthulu
20/08/09 @ 10:26
+5
Think he needs to relax a bit. I think the problem is that what's been seen so far has mostly only shown the QTEs off.
If it's modelled on Fahrenheit (which it looks to be), then it'll all work out fine. Of course, some of the QTEs in that went on a bit. Just saying. :) |
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+2
@MeBrains
Becaus Cage is talking and talking this game up then getting frustrated, because people don't believe him as he's still not let them play anything? What's more likely: - that he's cracked the problem of interactivity and strong narrative, but it's so special and advanced that we're just not capable of understanding it? - or that the game's not that good which is why he doesn't want anyone to playtest it and explain how it (doesn't) work? |
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stoopidgreg
20/08/09 @ 10:56
+13
Sorry Mr Cage but simply having to press the right button quick enough throughout the whole game is NOT gameplay. it's not fun, it's not original, it doesn't provide the player with any freedom, it's repetitive and it's unrealistic.
I'm not hating on the game or anything, it could well be very good like Fahrenheit, but I personally would rather have more physical control over my character than having to press a random button and see how the animation plays out.
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most recently on 20/08/09 @ 11:58
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M_of_the_sys
20/08/09 @ 10:57
0
@MeBrains
We get it. You're not excited about this game. You keep saying. Maybe you're not excited because it's not your type of thing? Only you know the answer. Why ask us? |
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+3
@UKslim
From what I gather it's more like "press X to maybe die, maybe not/press O to maybe die, maybe not", etc., etc. ... Definitely context sensitive. QTE? Depends on your definition, I guess. But if it is, then it's done in a different way than before. It may still suck offcourse, but I'm hoping for the best. |
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+1
Maybe someone should point him to Zeropunctuation :-J
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 20/08/09 @ 12:02
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Sunyavadin
20/08/09 @ 11:02
+4
Press X to BANG YOUR HEAD OFF THE SCREEN AT THE FACT THAT DEVELOPERS STILL USE QTEs......
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tomkuryakin
20/08/09 @ 11:07
+4
Didn't Resident Evil 4 have QTEs in it? I don't remember too many complaining about them then.
If only Heavy Rain had zombies in it...
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most recently on 20/08/09 @ 12:09
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Bigglesworth
20/08/09 @ 11:14
+9
Some people need to give game designers a little credit for being able to come up with new mechanics, or even variations on a theme, that these armchair pundits personally aren't able to conceive. If the game comes out and it *is* Dragon's Lair, *then* slam him.
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Mooglepies
20/08/09 @ 11:16
+9
Can't understand the hate for QTEs. I assume most of it (and I say most, I recognise there can be general "Meh" at the concept) comes from naive idiots who have to insist on every single scene of a game using the most complicated control system known to man to accomplish actions otherwise impossible or at best incredibly difficult using the gameplay mechanics. This isn't a rant against people moaning about overuse of QTEs in certain games; it's aimed purely at those who see QTEs and make the sign of the cross like it's some entirely stupid concept that should be wiped from gaming forever.
See Ken's Ultra attack in Streetfighter 4? Would you like to be forced to actually pull that off with individual button presses for each hit? Because to be honest, from my perspective that's exactly what you're asking for when you demand full player control when you see a QTE. Sure, you get the lazy developers where the whole game is made up entirely of QTEs and that's bad, but blindly demanding that all QTEs be removed from gaming forever when they clearly have a proper time and place for use is just stupid. Edit: -1 Already? Hah. Clearly I hit a nerve somewhere. I'll admit the analogy is trite but it's still valid.
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0
Domovi: He has shown plenty of different scenes where you can handle them in many different ways, releasing multiple playthrough videos. There are never an instant death but rather it comes in steps.
Like I said: the only difference I see with Dragon's lair is that there's more than one non-lethal option. And the fact that you can walk around. |
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chubster2010
20/08/09 @ 11:30
+6
Good on him.
I'm quite sick of people moaning about Heavy Rain being nothing more than a series of quick time events. Yes, Cage is promising a lot, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt, and wait until we've had a chance to play it before damning it as Dragon's Lair for the noughties. There's enough 'traditional' gaming experience available right now and on the horizon - it's nice to have something that (at the very least) is trying to do something different.
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Slipstream
20/08/09 @ 11:33
+3
I quite like QTE's if they;re well implemented. God of War (I pretty much play the game for the boss QTE segements)
Shenmue, the founder of the more refined and aknowledged QTEs and still arguably the best at them, giving you a chance to recover if you fail, or just keep going if you missed them completley in some cases. Ninja Blade is good if you're not very good at QTE's because it rewinds when you fail and maintains the pattern so you can learn it, good if you're unfamiliar with them. Kingdom Hearts 2: lol mash Triangle for advent children style attacks, 'nuff said. Ninja Gaiden 2: The enemy has to be in a dazed mode first sure, but it completly changed the animation of the attack, this could probably be the way forward, more subtle QTEs that happen when certain battle conditions are met. Heavy Rain: Oh this might be the way forward...
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Progguitarist
20/08/09 @ 11:36
0
Well said chubster. Theres enough out there to keep everyone happy.
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curtlikesmeat
20/08/09 @ 11:37
-2
I think there's definitely room for QTEs when done right. I liked them in God of War and Clive Barker's Jericho.
The thing I notice about this game (and maybe the poor quality of the vids is at work here) is that it looks a long long way from that 'Casting' video we saw a couple of years back. Very reminiscent of Killzone 2.... |
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ParanoidZombie
20/08/09 @ 11:51
+8
I'm not a big fan of QTEs, the big problem with fahrenheit was all the trial and error involved by QTEs: failing meant dying, and having to restart the whole sequence, which is bad in a story-driven game because your cut scenes and story sequences lose their impact because you have to see them too many times if you don't manage to succeed. This is boring, and a proper gameplay section works better, provided that the game design is open enough to allow you to experiment and try a different approach after you failed.
I like a good challenge, but I think Bioshock and Fable2 really nailed how a story-driven game should play: get rid of the game over screen, by doing that you are sure that your story elements stay fresh, and the player is more aware of what's going on simply because he knows that every event/cutscene/twist is unique, he won't have to replay it 50 times before he moves on to the next bit. Letting the player live, but making him face the consequences of his failure is a much better "punition". |
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jefranklin18
20/08/09 @ 12:20
+4
I am going to get this game if for no other reason than mature-content games don't have to be gore-fests. Anything different should be supported.
And as for QTEs, meh - if the developers want to include them and I am enjoying the game enough, I will do them. If the game is starting to bore me, they won't get played. It's not a hard decision really... |
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PlugMonkey
20/08/09 @ 12:22
+7
Fahrenheit started off with complex interactive scenarios, like the opening scene in the diner bathroom, and rapidly descended into non-stop QTEs, nonsensical plot twists and necrophilia.
If he can somehow make a game that maintains the interaction of the first bit, then I look forward to it. However, given the absolute mess that Fahrenheit degenerated into, he can't be surprised if people are a little more sceptical about his claims for his new game. |
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+7
I think the problem a lot of people have is that he seems to keep bigging up this game like it's the second coming and talking like no game designer has ever thought to put a decent story into a game before. Then when he actually shows off the game it appears to be an updated point and click adventure with a lot of QTEs (and whilst clearly not the entire game it still appears to be that QTEs make up a significant proportion of the game).
Also some of his lofty goals don't appear that grounded in reality, for example the whole "When you're in an uncomfortable position in game, we've made it so you have to hold the controller in an akward way to increase immersion". Sorry, that doesn't increase immersion, that gives me sore fingers which then distract me from the game. Why not take it further? When your character gets shot why not have a bullet come out of the screen and kill you? All that said I'm hoping Heavy Rain will be a great game, kind of like Blade Runner on the PC (old adventure game based on the film and book with branching paths, a good story and different every time you play) but I am definetly waiting for the reveiw as I have no idea if it's going to be 10/10, 3/10 or any where inbetween. |
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+1
What's wrong with Dragons Lair anyway I LOVE that game - only got the DVD version though :(
I'm not worried QTE in HR, haven't got that far in but I really like Fahrenheit. So more of that and it's all good. If highly praised games like God Of War, The RE reboot crap, Shenmue can do QTE why not this? |
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chubster2010
20/08/09 @ 12:43
+2
@ RexRunti
re. '"When you're in an uncomfortable position in game, we've made it so you have to hold the controller in an akward way to increase immersion"' ' Hideo Kojimi did a similar thing in MGS5 (the bit when you're crawling up the tunnel, mashing the x button for ages) - i thought that worked rather well. It kind of simulated the sense of exhaustion. |
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+1
@chubster2010
Yeah I forgot about that. To be honest though it annoyed me a bit at the time and I certainly wouldn't choose to do it again if I had the option. Games shouldn't cause physical pain (with the posible exception of EA Active/Wii Fit) and should never feel like work or a chore. Edit: Speelong
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chubster2010
20/08/09 @ 12:57
+3
@ Rex
'I certainly wouldn't choose to do it again if I had the option' Neither would Solid Snake...neither would Solid Snake... See - it worked didn't it? It was an ordeal for both you and Snake. |
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+4
"This is not Dragon's Lair - do you think I'm crazy?"
then why do you keep showing only the QTE segments? from everything that i've seen from heavy rain it looks like a giant QTE corridor, and no matter how many different outcomes a scripted button prompt has, it is still a QTE. what i don't get is why everybody has a problem with that - wasn't this game advertised as a sort of "interactive movie" (that's what got me interested) in the first place? |
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chubster2010
20/08/09 @ 13:03
+1
@ Jahb
Watch this: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-... There looks to be a fair amount of freedom in this scene. |
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+2
@chubster2010
i'm not too sure; you get to move a character around until you hit a trigger, and then the QTE starts. i'm really on the fence on this game, if all these "big huge QTE" assumptions are true, it will be an epic fail, but the concept in itself has the potential to make a for an absolutely fantastic game. here's hoping for a demo |
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kangarootoo
20/08/09 @ 14:17
+4
People keep talking about QTEs as if they are this magical entity, divorced from anything else we ever see in games. They are one of many mechanics that get used all the time.
Like all the other mechanics that get used all the time, if they are used badly the result is not fun. If they are used well, the result is fun. Its that simple really. We have a history of games associating QTEs with poor signposting resulting in immediate death. That isn't the fault of QTEs as a concept any more than badly placed checkpoint are the fault of all checkpoint systems everywhere. We can apply the same rule to QTEs that we can apply to most other game mechanics. If they are done well you probably won't notice, and if they are done badly you will (and will probably have something to say about it). I suggest that we simply hold fire and see what they come up with. If it works well and it is fun, it frankly doesn't bloody matter what it is or what we call it, does it? And if doesn't work and the result is frustrating and fun-removing, then we can send DG poo in the post. Deal? |
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+2
"No! We don't make Dragon's Lair! This is not Dragon's Lair - do you think I'm crazy? I'm not stupid"
And "When there is an action sequence, yes we integrate this QTE sequences." So you are either crazy, stupid or think we are stupid ... QTE is Dragon's Lair but the thing is Dragon's Lair was a Arcade game and so designed for us to lose coins playing it. "We've done it really in a new way, we really started from a blank page again to try to take the best out of this type of interface and find the thrill and excitement and make you feel at the heart of the action." Now were did I heard THAT before? |
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Bigglesworth
20/08/09 @ 14:57
+2
Seeing the post above immediately follow the one above it makes me feel the same way about humanity as I would after being forced to watch a Jeremy Kyle show.
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+2
If it's modelled too far after Fahrenheit, then there'll be too much button bashing crap, and simon says QTE nonsense.
I hope it's modelled after fahrenehits on foot (NOT STEALTH!) sections with exploration, dialogue and interactivity. Also, this type of game seems like the perfect fodder for Natal / PSPenis wand control. |
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kangarootoo
20/08/09 @ 15:31
+1
@Bigglesworth
I honestly don't know whether that is an insult or a compliment (or something else). |
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+1
@roo2
..wise comment as always and I wouldn't disagree that if it's fun I don't give a hoot if it's QTE! That said, I do have a problem with QTEs as a concept. If I'm playing motorstorm (for example) I know it that leaning the thumbstick left and right isn't the same as driving really, but in the moment it feels like it is and that's the whole point. With a QTE it doesn't feel like anything more than what it is, an arbitrary series of control inputs. edit: I don't know if that can be fixed
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most recently on 20/08/09 @ 17:02
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