Darkfall Online Review

By Kieron Gillen Published 17 July, 2009

We can't be friends, we can't be enemies.

Of course, I haven't played it enough.

There is a history here, which would be foolish to pretend doesn't exist. When Darkfall was first reviewed on Eurogamer, it scored 2/10. The developer, Aventurine, was incensed. They'd checked their logs to discover the reviewer had a total logged-in time of a couple of hours. Eurogamer pressed their reviewer, who claimed their numbers must be wrong. He gave it at least nine hours. Eurogamer offered a re-review. Aventurine declined. Eurogamer bought an account anyway. And two months later, I'm here.

That's the short version. There's much more you can dig into, if you like. But from that brief precis, you know I could never have played it enough. The first review leaves a long shadow. I still haven't read it. Seemed beside the point.

Darkfall is a fantasy massively-multiplayer online role-playing game. Which seems an uncontroversial sentence, but conceals another slice of history. Darkfall has been in development forever. Since 2001. It's a game which has its own vision, one which manages to hark back and forward simultaneously. Rather than the class-based system which has dominated in contemporary times, where your abilities are linked to a choice of class and how you choose to progress it, it's a skill-based system. There's races, but their effect is relatively secondary. Like Ultima Online, it's a game where you primarily improve by doing whatever you want to do. Hit stuff to improve your sword-fighting. Chop wood to improve you chop-wooding. Sit down and have a nice rest to improve your sitting down and nice-resting.

Throw in full open player-versus-player combat (i.e. as many random assaults as a North London tube station at closing time) and full looting, and you've got a game which clearly believes something has been lost by mollycoddling players. If they could, you suspect they'd implement a way to give tiny electric shocks through your keyboard every time someone slides a blade into your back when you're fishing. It's good for you. It means everything means something.

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 1

This is me being a little over-greedy. I should have ran ages ago. But I was greedy. GREEDY FOR SCREENSHOTS.

I think they may be right, but I'll get back to that eventually.

Where Darkfall is more progressive is in its complete rejection of the usual timer-based combat, embracing an action implementation instead. When spell-casting or firing arrows - and remember that characters can excel in each of these areas as long as they practice in each - the game plays from a first-person perspective. If you use a melee weapon, it goes to third-person. Whatever you aim at, you hit.

The amount of damage you do is based upon your skills, but there's a direct use of player skill - even at the most basic level - which is almost absent in most MMOs. It's not a game where you stand toe-to-toe with a monster, trading blows, safe in the knowledge that your damage-per-second is slightly higher than his, so his health bar will exhaust before yours. Partially because of the aforementioned mechanics and partially because anyone passing and seeing you in such a vulnerable state is just going to leg it over, bash you on the head and take all your stuff. And call you a care bear. With constant friendly-fire on, you're just as likely to kill your friends as anyone else. It's brutal.

I wish the combat system was deadlier, but I'll get to that eventually too.

Okay. Bar the endgame - player-controlled cities and warring guilds and mass sieges, and enough to make this, no matter what the flaws, probably the closest there is to a terrestrial-set EVE Online in terms of player-politicking - that's the basics.

Let's take a detour.

Interlude 1: Aventurine vs Eurogamer. Why No-one Could Back Down

In short, for one side, there was all the proof in the world. For the other, there was nothing.

From Aventurine's perspective, they have logs showing that a reviewer who slaughtered their love-child had barely touched the game. They're happy to show them to Eurogamer. Hell, they're so confident they're happy enough to fly a tech guy over to show them the logs. It's clear the reviewer is lying about how much he's played. The review is an outrage and a fiasco.

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 2

This is naked me, trying to find my corpse and nab back my stuff. And being killed.

From Eurogamer's perspective, they have a developer claiming that logs show something. Logs which are entirely within their control. I'd be surprised if Eurogamer has a tech guy in-house capable of ascertaining the meaning of the logs. More so, when changing logs is an absolutely trivial task, what the logs say when that tech examines it is ultimately meaningless. If Aventurine was dissembling, Eurogamer wouldn't be able to tell.

As long as the reviewer claimed reasonably that he'd played the game for longer, Tom [Bramwell, editor] had to back him because - really - it was his word against theirs. And if an editor takes the developers word over the staff...

  • Every writer would look at him with contempt. I certainly would. If I'm putting my balls on the line, I'd like someone with a spine behind me.
  • He would leave himself open to any developer trying the same thing. Whether Aventurine are telling the truth or not doesn't matter. The fact remains: logs can be edited effortlessly. If you set a precedent of believing other people's logs over your own employee's word, you can guarantee there are developers disreputable enough to do try and take advantage of it the next time a bad review is aimed in their direction.

Of course, it could just be an old technical error and the logs didn't get the times right. I'd like to think so. I don't think it's likely, but that it was no human malice here would be the best possible ending to a pretty horrible situation.

For the record: If I ever actually find out conclusively that someone was lying in this matter, I will do everything I can to destroy them.

My highest-rated skill in Darkfall is rest. That being the skill which constantly gets used when I'm waiting for my health to recover after a nasty confrontation with some uppity kobolds. I'm constantly training it, after all.

Let's follow that chain of logic through: when you first enter the world and excitedly run off to have your initial encounter, your recovery rate is the slowest that it'll ever be. You'll have your first confused fight, and with any luck actually leg it when a mass of goblins jump on you, and retreat to a safe distance. And then the recovery is as bad as it's ever going to be. At the least it's a natural break for me to go and make a cup of tea, or catch up on some leisurely masturbation.

Darkfall believes that MMOs are all about slow improvement, so any improvement in any area is a good improvement - and, as such, it's best to start in a situation you hate so you feel better when the artificial limitation is removed (like, say, the first X: Beyond The Frontier thinking it a good idea to start without the time-dilation function). It's a game which believes suffering is good for you, in all its forms. At its best, this lends the struggles of the game a real intensity. At its worst, it renders the game tedious or openly nonsensical due to the unforeseen implications of the rules.

Because, as always, MMO worlds are shaped by their mechanics as surely as the rules of physics and economics shape ours. A designer's intent matters nothing compared to the shuffling of thousands of players trying to work out the most efficient way to progress. In a more World of Warcraft-derived MMO, you see fun quests being abandoned in favour of grinding out the one with the optimum XP payout. Ironically, single-player games often have more believable worlds, because competition with your fellows don't force you into such nonsense.

To choose the most obvious example, when I started playing Darkfall, they hadn't fixed its experience system for ranged effects. So you improved your magical blast by firing it, not actually hitting something. As such, there was mass-macroing to boost abilities. Even I, as I was jogging across the countryside, found myself firing missiles randomly into the sky to pump those skills a little. Darkfall was a world where it was perfectly logical - in fact, inevitable - that wizards ran around firing blasts heavenwards.

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 3

Hot Orc On Orc Violence. If the text is visible, this is me whining about a bug where my character wouldn't leave the first guild I joined.

That's fixed now - and wouldn't work with all spells, due to the increasing need for bits of the old eye-of-newt to cast fancier ones - but it's a more general attitude. The rules lead to openly silly places. Playing in the small clan I joined, I found myself defending against an interloper. Running back from my adventuring in armour, I glanced at my fellows and felt terribly over-dressed. Because - y'know - I was dressed. Everyone else had stripped down to their underpants.

It's logical enough. It's a relatively meaningless battle. As such, going into battle and risking someone dying and taking stuff you've carefully collected - or, even worse, actually crafted - would be foolish. Why risk taking a random shot, falling, the opponent nabbing it and legging off? Better not to risk anything other than your default, infinitely-respawnable weapons.

This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's reasonable to strip down to your pants. This is stupid beyond all mortal belief.

This is what I mean by wishing the game was more deadly, because it'd encourage people to actually act like soldiers - as in, knowing that going into battle naked is going to get you killed - which would create a greater sense of reality. A blow in the back hurts more, but doesn't exactly hurt enough - especially in the buff. Characters run around, not caring about the occasional blow, more akin to a Counter-Strike knife-fight. Combat doesn't resemble combat. For all its challenges, it's not really deadly enough.

But other bits of the rules work brilliantly. The looting system itself is painful - the game deliberately forces you to drag each individual item from a pack across, a "realistic" system which makes it harder to just kill someone and run, but automatically adds an area of hilarity when someone's carrying dozens of scavenged weapons. And yet the game's attitude to loot is totally refreshing. Absolutely basic equipment can be found by simply killing basic monsters who are armed with it. Like, obviously. Where else would you get them from? Make equipment less important than the skills/statistics of the player and it changes the entire balance of the game. Player economy provides the best stuff. Useable stuff can be found. This all works great, with the obvious proviso that resource-collection is painstaking.

Even better is the actual player-versus-player combat. The first time I was hunted was absolutely thrilling. I'm fighting some goblins to work on that next 0.1 sword skills and a group of more experienced characters on some kind of crazy animal's back charge over the hill... Well, my heart is in my throat. I turn on the spot and run for my life. I assume they're going to kill me. Of course, I'm right, but I manage to actually prove such an annoying target that I escape them enough to get back in town. Knowing that if I stumbled the marauders would steal everything I'd spent the previous hour grinding for added an undeniable edge.

Most of all, when something goes wrong, it's often a case of you realising entirely you were pushing it too far. Losing a couple of hours' worth of random loot when I stop to wipe out some goblins on the final length home, letting my health deplete and then getting jumped by some opportunistic bastard... well, it's annoying. But it's also my fault. I'm annoyed with myself more than the game. Bad play. I was punished for it.

Yet part of you growls: This is unfair.

You growl back at it and call it a carebear. On a more profound level, it was totally fair.

Interlude 2: Things I Was Considering Doing In This Review But Decided Against

1) Engage with the debate around the review directly, and review it in two hours (what Aventurine said was played), 10 hours (roughly what the reviewer said he played) and again, with however many hours I ended up playing in the end. As in, how much can you actually say in such a short period? How valid is it? What changes? What doesn't?

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 4

An early naked run. Annoyingly, I realise that my post-guild joining shots would reveal the group's identity. So these are mostly relatively early.

Why I Didn't: Fundamentally not enough changed to make it worthwhile. My experience with the game didn't scale. What I liked and what I disliked about the game were there pretty much from the first moment in one form or another, and it was how they appeared which altered as I progressed. Perhaps the biggest irony about this whole mess: I suspect this is an MMO which you can tell whether you like or not in those first couple of hours.

2) Interview someone from the clan I played with about why they liked the game. Clearly, being a MMO with a dedicated audience, there's people who really genuinely do like Darkfall. Providing a forum to share the reasons why they play could be worthwhile. After all, even if the game's appeal is limited, it clearly has an appeal and is capable of provoking obvious passion. What's different? Why play this? What makes your heart go boom?

Why I Didn't: It was just a clear attempt to play to the ego of the Darkfall fanbase. The main appeals of the game are strikingly obvious. I don't need to take someone else's opinion to be fair to those. The question is whether those attributes outweigh the negatives, and getting someone else in muddies the issue in tokenism. Or, in Darkfall's language, it'll be carebareism.

3) When I'd finished playing the game, take my character and go to the highest point in the land and shout on an open channel: "Hi! I'm the reviewer for Eurogamer. I'm here. I'll take you all. One at a time or all at once, it makes no difference to me!" And then running as a swarm arrives to hack me to pieces. Run, Kieron, Run! Run for your life!

Why I didn't: Well, as much as it could have been funny and proved cathartic to the aggrieved Darkfall fanbase, it struck me as taking the piss a little too much. In my time in the game, the players I've met have been overwhelmingly pleasant - even when hacking me to death - and turning them from actual people into a mob didn't seem right.

4) Keep a stopwatch by my desk while playing, starting it whenever I played.

Why I Didn't: Couldn't find a stopwatch.

Darkfall's control system is, to be polite, a mess. It is, to be less polite, a bloody infuriating graceless mess.

It manages to be so on such a fundamental level that when I explain it it's going to sound as confusing as it actually is in play. Even simple tasks like swapping weapons manage to become potentially disastrous. As a Dwarf Fortress veteran, wrestling with oblique control systems isn't the problem - it's marrying these sorts of controls with a real-time action game that demands fluidity. If you're stuck trying to remember which exact combination of buttons are required to do the task in hand, it's not exactly conducive playing the bally thing.

The idea is that you can have a weapon sheathed or unsheathed. You select the weapon from the toolbar to move it into your "weapon to use" slot. You can then draw or sheathe it. If you've already got a weapon unsheathed, changing the weapon in the slot automatically unsheathes the new one, so you can go from wand-out to sword-out in a button press. That's as good as the system gets (i.e. what you'd want it to do). Except if you're in the melee-weapon third-person, where if you've got your bow or magical staff out, and aren't actually doing anything with it, it's not really visible. So you've no idea whether you've got a weapon equipped or not at a glance, forcing you remember what your last action was. What's the weapon in my slot? Is it the one I want? I think I've got something else, so I press the one I want. Except - oh no - it actually was the one I wanted, so now I've unequipped it. I only discover this when I try to unsheathe it and nothing happens.

Really, the problem is the control system married to a lack of feedback to the player. Any of these actions result in no feedback except tiny rows of letters in one of the windows - which, of course, you're not reading during combat. When "Do I have a magical staff in my hand?" becomes a matter of gnomic mystery, something has gone drastically wrong.

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 5

My mate, Bloo. He's a total dork.

For magic, double all the confusion. You need to select the staff, unsheathe the staff, select the spell you want, and then cast it. There's no way I could find to have a default spell. I mean, I have the staff out. It's clear I want some manner of spell. Just having it do nothing seems bloody perverse. Oh - and the chances for confusion are increased constantly by the fact you have to unsheathe your weapons to examine corpses. Being forced to move between all these states, each demanding an exact response where any other response will move your character into an even worse setup is hilariously fiddly.

It's worth stressing, in light of the previous paragraph, that there may be a way of setting a default spell. I just couldn't find it. The game is incredibly bad about documenting itself. I understand entirely why there were apparently factual errors in the original review. It speaks primarily not of the character of the review, but the character of Darkfall.

This annoys all the more because this additional worry distracts you from the actual real kick to the game's difficulty. Putting aside player-versus-player combat, the action-based combat system entirely changes battles against even the most humble of creatures. Compared to the lethargic denizens of anywhere-Azeroth-like, Darkfall's are rabid psychopaths and/or cowards. Fight one, and anyone within a seeming half-mile comes running in to help out. Get one almost dead, and he'll run - of course, with his mates piling on your vulnerable back if you chase him. It's very easy to get out of your depth. Most combat ends with you running away, returning to loot the bodies after you've healed - if you can get near enough the body to collect the stuff at all. It's a game where even killing the common-or-garden orc can feel like a huge achievement. (Which is the main reason why the controls frustrate. You have other things on your mind. Dying due to a tactical error is worthwhile. Dying due to control system confusion is worthless.)

The game is an enormous grind - progress is slow, and requiring other grinding tasks besides the actual interesting combat (i.e. chopping wood to make arrows for real competitiveness in PvP) - but at the most basal level, it's more engaging than any of the games where you stand there pressing 1 then 2 then 3 then 1 again until a sprite falls over. In my time in Darkfall, when going player-versus-environment, I fought far fewer enemy types than I would in any other major recent MMO... but I didn't care. The variety in the conflict based around situational elements - luring people out with arrow-fire, using the terrain to separate members from the pack, whatever - kept it as entertaining.

Mostly. While good against MMOs, the problem is, compared to almost any action game, Darkfall is anemic. Its strengths show exactly how limited almost all the traditional MMO approaches have been in terms of actually offering meaningful gameplay of this sort. Of course, as a step in a worthwhile direction, I feel I have to applaud Darkfall. But by attracting a player who wants this type of game, its failings ring all the more loud. Chasing down an injured foe to only have the game reset his position to miles ago is rubbish on about every level conceivable.

Interlude 3: Reviewing Massively Multiplayer Games

I've been debating how best to review MMOs since Everquest launched in 1999 and I'm still no nearer a definitive answer. I suspect we're just screwed.

How much time should you realistically play an MMO before reviewing it? Well, as much as possible, obviously. In practice, how much is that? Clearly, reviewing an MMO from - say - five to 20 hours, while analogous to how long it takes to review almost any other game, is far less than the people who go native.

Problem: you hire a professional to do it, you have to pay them. Reviews are paid by the word-count. So spending 80 hours playing a game would bring in the same amount of money as burning through four-hour first-person shooter.

One solution would be to pay MMO reviewers proportionately to the time required. It wouldn't help. It'd become financially pointless to review all but the biggest MMOs due to the resources required to do so. Only the very biggest games would get the coverage. Games like Darkfall, let alone smaller games, simply would not get covered. Specialist (i.e. amateur and/or volunteer) MMO sites would do it. As such, the coverage would be grotesquely slanted - because no one plays an MMO for 60 hours unless they actually get something from it. In other words, there would be an increasingly self-selecting bias in MMO reviews. People who don't dig a game wouldn't review it.

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 6

The multiple suns in the sky actually creates some really compellingly atmospheric sunsets.

(Alternatively, you get the bitter burnout cases who have a moment of revelation that it's been a total waste of time... which is just as useless to the consumer. If you weren't enjoying it for all those hours, why were you playing it so devotedly? They're the equivalent of someone bad-mouthing an ex after a bad split. There were good times. You just can't remember them now.)

I think a dual-review format is best. An MMO doesn't cost any more money than any other kind of game. A first review, almost always, will be based around the initial experience of a game across those 5-20 hours. As such, you're saying whether the game will reward you enough to actually try the thing out. Because if it's horrific in that time, you're never going to recommend it to anyone anyway. If someone pisses on my shoes all night at the pub, I don't care if I get crazed fellatio at closing time: I'm only going to recommend it to the glorious perverts who like the urine-feet thing. For games where reviewers continue to play of their own volition, we return later for a more serious critical taking apart in lieu of all that experience.

In other words, using a travel-journalism metaphor, a first review of an MMO is whether a destination is a place you'd recommend for a holiday. A second review is a recommendation of whether somewhere is a good place to go and live. I think this provides worthwhile buying advice - the first review says whether it's worth your money, which is the primary aim of a consumer review. I also think this is the best we're going to get.

If you haven't guessed, this is a first-review type review. I played Darkfall for somewhere between 10 and 20 hours. Towards the top end, I believe, but - as I said - I couldn't find the stopwatch. That's not a lot for the couple of months, you may think. And you'd be right. But the actual playtime was actually a month or so back, and I've been trying to work out exactly the right angle on it since...

The right angle.

I don't think Darkfall has one - with the exception of the ability of your character to walk pretty much directly up right-angle surfaces.

(The biggest single growl in the learning of Darkfall's foibles was realising you could actually run up almost all of the hills, even those vertiginous cliffs. Partially an enormous relief in terms of time-saving while traipsing across the map, partially annoyance that another part of the sprawling landscape's fantasy is lost. It's hard to imprint on a world that's so resolutely loony.)

'Darkfall Online' Screenshot 7

Some of the aforementioned vertical cliff-running.

There's no correct angle here because it's so much its own game that tearing it apart for its gaping flaws doesn't change the fact that people will still play something this cheerfully shabby, rather than something with the "correct" level of the polish but a soul that turns their stomach. I can kind of empathise. Partially because there's moments where it sings - for all its foibles, I'd much rather play it than, say, bloody Lineage 2 - and partially because I've spent the last two weeks adoring Blood Bowl whilst battling with its server-browser user interface, which is so arcanely, opaquely useless that it's almost innovative. Point being, if it's the game you want, you put up with the madness.

At the moment, I don't think there are many who will put up with Darkfall's madness. I certainly won't. I hope Darkfall grows and becomes a game which can take its charms and appeal to a wider audience (EVE wasn't EVE when it launched, for example - it began with fine ideas that appealed to a niche, and as they improved the game it sold its ideas to an ever-larger niche). Darkfall's just launched in the US and its expansion has gone live, after all. But as a game, it's just not there yet, its rewards too distant and the road there too barren to recommend to fellow travellers.

I just logged on to leave the clan I joined whilst playing, not wanting to connect them in any way to the terrible secret interloper from Eurogamer. I appeared, in my pants. An armoured orc ran up to me, two-handed sword in the air. I immediately backed off expecting trouble (I'm not a total newb, y'know?), but he waved. I waved back. We danced around a little.

"Let's go kill some Goblins," he cheerfully said.

I apologised in-game, while swearing in real life at Darkfall's sluggish browser-implemented clan-system windows.

"I'm sorry: just on to do something. I have to go."

"kk. bye!"

He happily ran off to kill some goblins, and I logged off.

4 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kieron.

About Kieron Gillen

Kieron is one of the founders of the lovely Rock, Paper, Shotgun and nowadays writes comics for Marvel starring characters that even his mum has heard of.

Read more articles from Kieron by visiting the Kieron Gillen archive page.

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Comments (280) 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • PiD #1 3 years ago

    Better than Darkfall?

  • JohnnyWashnGo #2 3 years ago

    Shall I comment or shall I read?

  • Sid Viscous #3 3 years ago

    So.. Shit then.

  • Bremenacht #4 3 years ago

    Double Dorkfail!

    Twice as good as the last review. Better than ever.

  • Syrette #5 3 years ago

    This will set a new comments page total record.

    Dorkfail amirite?

  • DFawkes #6 3 years ago

    I thought it only fair to read it all before posting, but I forgot to log it so you'll just have to trust me :p

    Very nice review, I very much enjoyed the read. I'd even consider trying it out myself, if I saw a boxed copy in the shop. Though obviously I wouldn't be expecting much.

    I especially loved "This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's reasonable to strip down to your pants. This is stupid beyond all mortal belief." That's just like real life!
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 12:09

  • mowgli #7 3 years ago

    A 4 isn't bad for a shit game.

  • roz123 #8 3 years ago

    2 pages on wii sports resort and other decent releases. Yet this shit gets 4 pages. Fuck off

  • Xerx3s #9 3 years ago

    Let the second dorkfail intifada begin!\o/

  • roz123 #10 3 years ago

    someone should post a thread on the darkfail forums Titled: New Eurogamer review gives 4/10. NECKBEARDS UNITE

  • Tyranix #11 3 years ago

    Commenting on a Legendary Review.

  • Bremenacht #12 3 years ago

    From the old scoring policy:

    Four - getting into the realms of poor

    When you see a four out of ten anywhere you know the reviewer's had a fairly miserable experience and is issuing caution to potential punters to stay away from it. Somewhere there will be some semblance of playability, but it's the kind of game you wouldn't even really want to suggest renting most of the time. At best you should maybe borrow from a friend or have a look in-store (or download the demo if it's a PC game, naturally) if you're really curious and want a second opinion. There are maybe some redeeming features in there; maybe it's technically acceptable in certain areas with some decent graphics, but completely ruined by broken gameplay that's possibly full of bugs, a terrible control system and all manner of collected irritants like bad camera system, offensively bad script and voiceovers, rotten level design, and probably stupid AI quirks or balancing that's too easy or too hard. But games that have scored this badly and suffer from these exact issues often sell very well indeed, so there's no accounting for taste. If you don't like wasting money, then stay the hell away from a four. There are so many better games you could be looking at.

    (my bolding)

  • Crea #13 3 years ago

    Fucking great review.

  • AphoticCosmos #14 3 years ago

    4/10

    Darkfailed then.

    /goes to read review.

  • Psychotext #15 3 years ago

    That's an epic review... you carebear.

    :D

  • President_Weasel #16 3 years ago

    I liked the old scoring guide much better than the anodyne new one where 4 is "not as good as a 5, but a bit better than a 3". Also I suspect there will be many comments for this article and wanted to get in early.

  • thebuzzard #17 3 years ago

    Twice as good as it was before, Im sure they will be happy with that...
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 12:21

  • garengarch #18 3 years ago

    Very fair review.

    RIP Darkfall.

  • Pirotic #19 3 years ago

    Great review, good job.

  • stevetuck #20 3 years ago

    the only MMO that stands a chance of being as good and as popular as WoW is the next blizzard MMO.. and i dont care what people think about WoW saying its easy, its for casuals etc... its still the best one out on the market by a mile

  • rudedudejude #21 3 years ago

    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 12:36

  • Flying_Pig #22 3 years ago

    Best review I've read in ages.

    Shame the game's poop. :)

  • Jockie #23 3 years ago

    Interesting read. Essentially then it's a niche game, thats a bit crap, but because it's a niche game it has enough about it for fans of that particular genre to find it worthwhile to play. All seems pretty reasonable to me, I can tell without playing the game for 10 minutes, let alone 3 hours it's probably not going to be an experience i'd enjoy, but fair play to those that would/do.

  • Mellissa #24 3 years ago

    Been waiting for ages for this review, you slacker Kieron.
    Just glad it lives up to my expectations.. 4 pages for a 4/10 :)
    .

  • Dizzy #25 3 years ago

    Good job.

    TBH better than the first review because of the extra info on how the game plays.

    I understand there is a market for a game like this... MMOs basically started off like this. Asherons Call pvp server was the same as this but it seems like the 10 year old AC had a better interface and better playability than this (except for the graphics). This game could have worked IMHO if it was just better done and more streamlined in the UI/gameplay department, there is nothing wrong with the ideas behind it.

  • mashk #26 3 years ago

    4 pages on a crap game? Priorities all wrong.

  • peak_performance #27 3 years ago

    Good review. Sounds like I would have the same impression of the game.

  • zuljin #28 3 years ago

    Hehe, I love reading Kierons reviews :)

  • anomagnus #29 3 years ago

    At the very least, they addressed the issues with the first review.

    I'm personally not inclined to believe the first reviewer. I don't have any proof, its just my gut feeling.

    This seemed like a fair review, and you can't fault them for that.

  • Whizzo #30 3 years ago

    Not only a Darkfall review but a review of reviewing MMOs themselves, now that was a bit unexpected.

  • Syrette #31 3 years ago

    Some people don't seem to understand the context of this review and exactly why it is so long.

  • myiagros #32 3 years ago

    Read the "new" review. Sounds bonkers and clumsy but kind of charming.

    If they drastically inproved the control system it sounds like it might actually be mildly enjoyable in a crazy masochistic kind of way.

    Expects 3rd review to get an 8/10

  • DDevil #33 3 years ago

    I think the important thing is that this reads like a fairly written and well considered review. Nice one KG.

  • matrim83 #34 3 years ago

    Damn it. 4/10 isnt gonna produce enough entertainment. :(

    Fantastic read though. :)

  • Gaol #35 3 years ago

    Damn, EG in excellent MMORPG review shocker. Expertly summed up.

  • mingster #36 3 years ago

    lol quality... you got 4 pages you lucky neckbeards...
    now f##k off and go away.

  • b00n #37 3 years ago

    Read the review for about 18 minutes, give it 8/10

  • Buztafen #38 3 years ago

    DORK4LL!!! \o/

  • Dave #39 3 years ago

    The killing, running away and returning to see if you can get some loot from your kills, sounds a lot like the experience I had with Dark Age of Camelot in 2002/2003. It could be rewarding, but it could also be very annoying. I prefer WoW's approach; the rewarding feeling may be smaller, but so is the annoying part.

  • Physically_Insane #40 3 years ago

    4 page review for a shit game that nobody will buy on here. Good one EG!

  • Henrik_se #41 3 years ago

    I suspect this will not get as many comments as the old review, but I can't stop myself from posting in possibly epic thread.

  • ekko #42 3 years ago

    Probably the best review I've seen KG write, but then I'm not usually a fan of his.

  • JahB #43 3 years ago

    lol @ all the wii fanboys for bitching about review length

  • abigsmurf #44 3 years ago

    I eagerly await the hordes of Darkfall fanatics flaming this review.

  • Lutz #45 3 years ago

    Fantasic review there KG, really liked the style, with the interludes.

  • Physically_Insane #46 3 years ago

    @JahB

    I'm no Wii fanboy. Isn't the whole point of a review to help people make a decision on whether they should purchase the game or not. Everybody knew this game was going to be shit. 4 page review. Fuck off. Were you seriously considering buying this? How many other people on EG do you think were interested in buying this?

    It's a review written just for the comments. It's sad that all the EG members are just waiting for some Dorkfail (hahahahahahah ahahaha ha ahaha aha ahah aha aha ahahahahahahaha aha ahah aah aha hahahaha ahahahahahahahhaahaha ahaahahahah ahaha ha ) fan to come in and defend the game so they can rip him to shreds.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 17:28

  • SYS64738 #47 3 years ago

    Get ready... FIGHT!

    foooooooooo carebears foooooooo

    /grabs popcorn.

    edit: having just finished reading the review, must say very well done Kieron, very well written and entertaining read! Although somehow I imagine this might not get the same neckbeard outrage factor as the original review. Simply because there's really not much at all to fault in it. Though I may be proven wrong:)

    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 13:45

  • Krusty #48 3 years ago

    Good review CMonster :)

  • JJKrista1 #49 3 years ago

    Best review I've read in ages. Perhaps EG should consider longer reviews?

  • PearOfAnguish #50 3 years ago

    "How many other people on EG do you think were interested in buying this?"

    Who gives a fuck? It was a great review. You are aware that sometimes people like to read for entertainment, yes?

  • Syrette #51 3 years ago

    P_I showing a major lack of understanding of the history of Darkfall and this website.

  • JahB #52 3 years ago

    @Physically Insane

    If so, my apologies. I thought all "4 pages on this crap" comments were coming from the wii fanboys still fed up about wii sports resort getting only 2 pages.

    and hell no, i'm not gonna buy this game. but i still thoroughly enjoyed the review after the whole mess with review #1

  • abigsmurf #53 3 years ago

    Don't think I've seen so many down votes in a comments section, looks like there's a bunch of people downvoting en masse

  • Syrette #54 3 years ago

    I got -3 for that?!

  • PearOfAnguish #55 3 years ago

    PatAU, maybe you should read before commenting, that would decrease the chances of you looking silly.

  • Henrik_se #56 3 years ago

    @PatAU: Is that a trolling attempt or just a fake trolling attempt? Either way, it's.. uuhh.. not very believable.

  • moshegy #57 3 years ago

    Nice review.

    I especially like the snippet with the eve-online comparisson as darkfall still has some potential in that area. It's a little unfortunate to think of really, as a fan of sandbox games myself, but if you want a fantasy sandbox MMO based on pvp and player run communities darkfall is still your only "recent" option.

    I can certainly understand why it attracts some people and keep them hooked as I played shadowbane for two years myself, and that was most definitely a 4/10 (perhaps even lower) aswell.

  • Henrik_se #58 3 years ago

    Wait, is this comment thread gonna be a boring repetition of the old one where the main complaint is the playing time, again?

    How dull.

  • Sanxo #59 3 years ago

    To be honest I don't think we'll see the same rush of nerdrage from the Darkfall community because they have come to pretty much the same conclusion as KG and are pinning their hopes on the next great white hope of PvP MMOs, Mortal Online.

    There was way too much emotional investment in DF at the time of the review and the DF community had to defend themselves, rather than the game.

  • Psychotext #60 3 years ago

    "I got -3 for that?!"

    You got -4 for that. \o/

  • Agent_Orange #61 3 years ago

    Classic! I laughed all the way through that!!

  • kangarootoo #62 3 years ago

    "Well so far, I think this proves the comments karma is fundamentally broken. "

    You think. My eyes say otherwise. Every heavily down rated post has been grumpy nonsense that we are well rid of.

  • Bremenacht #63 3 years ago

    BremX - have you read the original review since writing that?

    It's an excellent article. I think it fairly ties up the EG/Darkfall 'issue' and provides useful, constructive criticism for Aventurine to consider. Will they consider it though? I doubt it. The sadcases suffering from hormone imbalance won't consider it either. although I expect enough truths will hit home to dampen the dork-rage.

  • PearOfAnguish #64 3 years ago

    "Looking silly" is what happens when you lie about play time, not calling someone on it.

    Either you're trolling or you're genuinely confused. This is the second review, the first reviewer was accused of not playing the game long enough. You would know this if you had read the article before mashing your keyboard.

    Wait, is this comment thread gonna be a boring repetition of the old one where the main complaint is the playing time, again?

    There's an easy solution to that, combine the playing time of both KG and Ed Zitron. They have now played the game for over 20 hours.
    Edited by 2 at 17/07/09 @ 13:14

  • gohda #65 3 years ago

    lol great review

  • The_Bloody_Kettle #66 3 years ago

    I like the idea of Darkfall, but can't go near a game with such flaws.
    Fix those flaws and I'll try it, so until then..

    But great review Eurogamer!!

  • smoothpete #67 3 years ago

    Where's this pissy shoe pub? sounds great

  • Festung_Norwegen #68 3 years ago

    Worthless review.
    He obviously went into this with his hands tied, as he couldn't give it a good score, that would completely discredit the previous review and this site. This is Eurogamer trying to save face by giving it a "neutral" poor score.

  • Hypercube #69 3 years ago

    A good and interesting read. Be interesting to see where DF is in a year - whether, as in your comparison to EVE, it has evolved and improved.

    Also - PatAU - best to stop now mate, you've already made yourself look like a retard.

  • Sanxo #70 3 years ago

    That's said, I could be wrong. I may have to browse at minus infinity to get the real lulz.

    (LOL at Festung_Norwegen's profile)

    INCOMING!
    Edited by 2 at 17/07/09 @ 13:23

  • mingster #71 3 years ago

    Kieron what Blood Bowl were you playing the PC online version or the PSP one?

  • Bremenacht #72 3 years ago

    There's an easy solution to that, combine the playing time of both KG and Ed Zitron. They have now played the game for over 20 hours.

    Hey - add the scores too and you get 6! Awesome!

  • BremXJones #73 3 years ago

    Mingster: I'm playing the PC one.

    KG
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 13:23

  • Monroekpa #74 3 years ago

    4/10. So twice as shit as back at May.

  • nin2010 #75 3 years ago

    This review was always going to end up with a score like this, why do you think Aventurine declined a second review. Did anyone really believe that Eurogamer would give the review to someone who had an interest in a full loot sandbox mmo or allow a decent score to be given to prove themselves wrong. At least this reviewer put some thought into his review and admitted that he didn't play the game very much and didn't discover most of the game besides killing a few different types of lowbie mobs and managed to get himself involved in one or two pvp fights.

    The interface is very awkward to use when you start playing in the first day or two because it's completely different to anything you will be used to. Once you do get used to it, it's actually very good. I will agree that the experience for a new player is lacking in terms of what is explained and what isn't. There is much you need to find out on your own or with the help of experienced players. You can see what weapon you have equipped in the circular section of the hotbar though so that one passed the reviewer by. The game is actually the opposite of what he guessed where you will know if you like it in 2 hours, rather it is a game that continues to grow on you as you discover more of the game and you explore the world. Follow this video journal of a Darkfall noob for a look into the world of Agon.

    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=eYozidD2fLc

  • Bremenacht #76 3 years ago

    EG types - please don't downrate any Dorkfailers who come on here to whinge. It means I have keep clicking Show to get my lols.

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #77 3 years ago

    Now THATS how you do a review, achknowlaging the strenghts and it's flaws and understanding why to both, bonus points to you my friend for comparing it to EVE which as we all know wasn't exactally perfect on release.

    It's just a massive shame that many gamer out there won't take the 'meaning' of the whole review to heart and just skip to the score and make up their own meaning to that.. It's kinda like a fine wine most only really care how drunk it gets them.

  • Murbal #78 3 years ago

    Just finished reading. Enjoyed the review immensely. The finale as it were also highlights that the right community can really do positive things for MMOs, but DF is just too brutal to let them.

  • Festung_Norwegen #79 3 years ago

    Decent amount of fanbois sucking Eurogamer dick in here.

  • Murbal #80 3 years ago

    @ Bremenacht - click show all in the threshold drop down

  • Syrette #81 3 years ago

    Bremenacht, just change the Threshold to Show All.

  • Murbal #82 3 years ago

    Too slow, fan \o/

  • Bremenacht #83 3 years ago

    Ach. Good point - thanks, chaps.

  • RedSparrows #84 3 years ago

    EG and fanboy don't really go together. There isn't some rabid EG fanboy base, attacking IGN with hilarious in jokes over and over - rather, they will defend EG but state also that EG is shite at other times. Darkfall is exactly the kind of game that gets fanboys. I know who seems more reasonable.

  • Bremenacht #85 3 years ago

    /downrates festering_nobender

  • PearOfAnguish #86 3 years ago

    Just interesting to see that eurogamer can put up fake reviews, get called on their lies, deny all evidence, re-review (or rather, finally put in a token effort) in a format that is a meta-review or poor attempt to further cover their fuckups - and they have fans to back them up. You clowns lap this shit up, when in practice it throws a significant cloud over their credibility (over all of their 'freelancer' reviews at least).

    Even if Zitron completely made up the review after playing the game for five minutes, it wouldn't be Eurogamer's fault for publishing it. They have to trust their writers or it's not going to work. They offered to have someone else review the game, which the developers declined. They have now published a second review by another writer, and you're complaining that...what? They're biased? Corrupt? Incompetent? If that was true they wouldn't have paid someone to do another write-up.

    Eurogamer is not one person, they have many writers. They haven't 'covered up' any fuck-ups, the original review is still there for you to enjoy. The review format wasn't their decision, it was Gillen that chose to write it that way. Would you be complaining this much if the score was 9/10? Sure you're not a Darkfall fan?

  • Temko #87 3 years ago

    Ah, i've been waiting for this one.

    frankly, i was quite embarassed by the fiasco. i've always found eurogamer quite a reputable site for information regarding games, and the last review was just that much of a shocker in form of inaccuate information and handling (on both ends at that)

    that said this review is spot on what the game was about 1 month to 1.5 months ago. (that was about when it was played, correct?).

    the new expansion has REALY done a world of awsome for the game and if i look back at the game (and i've been playing it for 5+ hours a day since beta) i have to agree with the 4/10.

    - the Gui is hellish, even now guildies/alliance members complain mostly about the gui and look into options of a G15 keyboard, a G9 mouse or other similar addition of ease the use.
    - gathering is hellish. have to agree, 10S for a single or where yuo need 5 ore for 2 ingots and even ht emost basic weapon needs 4 ingots - it's hellish. they thanksfully changed that as now you gather with less chance to fail and nodes restock faster. they also improved city/hamlet mines so they give more and altered crafting cost for both materials as well as raw gold.
    - training skills takes forever. Not that long any more. the expansion raised gains by about 30%, and increased it even more when fighting Mobs. waht took 10 hours, now takes 7. and thats a hell of a improvement.

    - player housing.
    - weather system that actually works (fog made me USELESS as a scout during a siege)

    but even for all it's improvement of the expansion the game is still at 5/10 at most in my eyes.
    it needs a complete gui overhual. and it needs the PvE rebalanced further

  • LazyDan #88 3 years ago

    Best thing I've ever seen on Eurogamer - you can't fault them here. The last review caused a GAMING CRISIS, so they send in one of the UK's best ever gaming reviewers, who goes ahead and spends a reasonable amount of time with the game, then generates a perfectly articulated summation of what's good and what's not.

    Whether you agree with his conclusion or not, you should at least be able to see where he's coming from as a non-devotee to this game who's stayed as impartial as possible.

    I also loved the length and the interludes - felt like I was reading a Ye Olde Times PC Gamer review. Excellent stuff.

  • Xerx3s #89 3 years ago

    "You think. My eyes say otherwise. Every heavily down rated post has been grumpy nonsense that we are well rid of. "

    No it isn't. I've seen plenty of posts since it was made available that got negative scores while the post was perfectly valid or contained a good question. It is the plaything of haters and fanboys.

  • PearOfAnguish #90 3 years ago

    They didn't have to do anything, but with the developer moaning and all the insane Darkfall fans wetting their knickers, they offered to have someone else do another review. They haven't taken the first review away and you now have a second opinion.

    It doesn't affect their credibility at all. Again - Eurogamer is not one person. There are many different opinions and they have loads of very well known writers who work for a whole range of magazines and web sites. If what you are saying was true then Kieron Gillen, John Walker, Alec Meer, Tom Bramwell, Kristan Reed, Jim Rossignol and more are all corrupt and only doing it for the ad hits. But that would make no difference to the freelance writers, and none of them has ever complained about having their writing or review scores fiddled to be 'controversial'.

  • seasidebaz #91 3 years ago

    I'm just annoyed at how low eurogamers standards have sunk over the past 3 years. They used to be pretty decent, now they just seem to write for the ad revenue.

    When was the last time you bought a paper gaming magazine? Take a look at one of those. Or even a newspaper. If the mag contains 100 pages, at least 50 of those will be adverts, it'll cost you about £4-£5. At least Eurogamer is free and, more to the point, not a month behind with news. (Although it is usually a few days behind, but I suppose you need to verify stuff)

  • grenade_master #92 3 years ago

    This game was on my "ignore" list since it's name surfaced on the mmorpg.com coming soon lists. My only response to it coming out was: "Who cares?!".


    PS: this is the first and last comment i've made about this game only because I think EG's reviewers time can be spent in a better way than playing some convoluted crappy mmo.

  • seasidebaz #93 3 years ago

    If you want to see a GOOD reason for a re-review, look at their recent wii motion + review of virtua tennis on wii. They admitted they had a debug wii system that worked funny with motion+

    So you're saying they tried to run Darkfall on a debug Ed Zitron, which was incompatible with the game? Works for me.

  • Yossarian #94 3 years ago

    The most enjoyment I have gleaned from a games review in a very long time.

    Good job, KG.

  • George-Roper #95 3 years ago

    Fantastic re-review. Superbly written and whilst scoring double of the original score still indicates a very flawed game.

    Can't wait to read through these comments properly and see what the rabid Darkfail fans have to say!

  • peak_performance #96 3 years ago

    This controversy conspiracy bullshit has to stop. I've seen no score (or at most, a few) on this site the last few years that isn't backed up by opinions and, most importantly, feel human.

  • RedSparrows #97 3 years ago

    If it's all led by ad revenue, why is EG plastered with ads of games that it has slated? Conan being one of them, right now.

  • Markusdragon #98 3 years ago

    Could have been worse, Darkfallers; they could have gotten Ellie Gibson to review it.

  • PearOfAnguish #99 3 years ago

    RedSparrows, I don't know how many times that's been pointed out and yet the cretins still come stumbling into the comments dribbling on about conspiracies and ad revenues and HURF DURF

  • WolfenSilva_TFK #100 3 years ago

    I wonder if the reviewer saw anything of the real darkfall?

    [link url=htt p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1hFNKYFhmQ&fmt=22
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=H1hFNKYFh...[/link]

  • rotmm #101 3 years ago

    @PatAU, "Nice to know I'm not the only one wearing a tinfoil hat. (earl bassett)"

    It's always good to have company.

  • pankomentarz #102 3 years ago

    Great review. Lots to read, many fine thoughts. That's how it was done years ago when people liked to read rather than fling around with gimmick remote controls.

    Waiting for DF fans to crop out of some strange black hole of the internet, though.

  • kendoji #103 3 years ago

    Eurogamer is the only decent gaming site around imo. All of the staff writers are good, their reviews are trustworthy and the site isn't plastered with pop-ups like the larger American sites are. And this review was great, as expected.

  • frostcircus #104 3 years ago

    Excellent review. I think it's the longest I've seen on the site, but I enjoyed every word. I'll remember a lot of them too.

    Not sure where this whole 'deliberate controversy' idea comes from. The blend of pulled punches and crushing haymakers felt balanced to me. If anything, I'd have said Kieron was trying to keep both sides as happy as possible. I doubt he'd be that naive, though.

  • PearOfAnguish #105 3 years ago

    (although i'd prefer if they would just focus on the game rather than launching a comedy career - ellie)

    I too hate reading things that make me laugh.
    Perhaps you should stick to Gamespy and GameSpot, their reviews read like they're produced by a machine.

    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 14:21

  • anomagnus #106 3 years ago

    I do have an issue with the new rating system, in that any thing critical of eurogamer seems to get buried almost immediately.

    4 or 5 years ago, i would trusted Eurogamer without a shadow of a doubt. Now, i'm not actually moved to trust their review scores at ll.

    Possibly, maybe my tastes have changed, or maybe games have matured so much that reviews are to subjective to be taken at face value, but when you have events like the first Darkfall review, it does make me question just what exactly is going on.

    Regarding ad driven revenue, i have my doubts on both sides of the argument, but if adds are a revenue stream, and i don't know how important they are to EG, but if they are important, its in EG's interest to have high page counts.

    And controversy will certainly do that.

  • DFawkes #107 3 years ago

    "An honest slamming review is great; an inaccurate slamming is not. "

    Kind of contradicted all your other comments there PatAU.

  • RedSparrows #108 3 years ago

    Oh god, US sites are generally terrible. 1up is alright. IGN and Gamespot and the rest are DIRE in comparison to EG. /aside

  • PearOfAnguish #109 3 years ago

    Pat enjoys a good slamming.

  • smoothpete #110 3 years ago

    I'd like to nominate PatAU for the Penis Of The Year award

    Let's see how the voting goes!

  • RedSparrows #111 3 years ago

    Well EG can't bloody win, can it - it gives MGS4 an 8/10 because that's what it thinks it should be, and it's accused of bias and rubbish scores and ad driven controversy. Because it's an 8/10. How terrible. ?!

    The 2/10 original DF was shoddily reviewed, that CAN be altered. That's the ONLY instance I can think of where such a thing happened.

  • GreyBeard #112 3 years ago

    Good review.

    Honestly though I don't think MMO's are really reviewable, they require too much of a commitment to decide whether you actually like them or not. And once you have reached that point, as Kieron points out your views have been co-opted by the game.

    I can see the merits of a written review, but putting a score at the end... no. MMO's can't be boxed off like that.

  • phatb0y #113 3 years ago

    Good review I thought. Not for the Darkfall fans, obviously.

    EG weren't obliged to do this piece, but in doing so have proven that Darkfail is indeed a stinker.

    Shit game is shit.

  • Xerx3s #114 3 years ago

    "Could have been worse, Darkfallers; they could have gotten Ellie Gibson to review it. "

    How is that worse? Any review written by Ellie is guaranteed hilarious.

  • pankomentarz #115 3 years ago

    Just thought about it!

    Why waste time waiting for some silly darkfallers to come here, if we can invade their forums and say how much we love this review?

    How about it?

  • KillerMonkey #116 3 years ago

    Excellent review, best I've read in a while.

  • j-bo #117 3 years ago

    Awesome review, classic gaming journalism.

  • PearOfAnguish #118 3 years ago

    Why waste time waiting for some silly darkfallers to come here, if we can invade their forums and say how much we love this review?

    Problem with that is, it seems that the moment you register for their forums your IQ drops by 50%. Just reading the posts will give you a headache
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 14:41

  • spudsbuckley #119 3 years ago

    AHAHAHAHA.

    Just play WoW or EVE, idiots.

  • GamerG #120 3 years ago

    God I love Eurogamer!

  • pankomentarz #121 3 years ago

    You're right. Read one page and feal srtange a biet

  • Gaol #122 3 years ago

    "If it's all led by ad revenue, why is EG plastered with ads of games that it has slated? Conan being one of them, right now. "

    Sorry, can't resist calling this out, but EG overrated Conan at launch, a fact even they have admitted. It has never 'slated' Conan, not properly.

    And as good as todays review is (ie. very), there is a valid point to be raised about the 2/10 review. Not so much the score, but the fact that Kieron's pays proper respect to the source material and is far more perceptive on just about every count on the games strengths and shortcomings.

    Clearly MMO reviews are much harder to get right. I think this is less about time spent playing or how long the game has been on release, and more about the experience and ability of the writer; specifically their accumulated experience with MMORPGs.

  • Razzajazz #123 3 years ago

    Sooo..... Still crap, then?

  • Markusdragon #124 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s
    "How is that worse? Any review written by Ellie is guaranteed hilarious."

    Worse for Darkfall fans, not so much for us!

  • RedSparrows #125 3 years ago

    Alright then Gaol, I must have misremembered their Conan treatment. It's never stuck in my mind as being very positive, however, which is what the ad = good review argument depends upon.

    There have been other games that have been advertised that have had bad to middling good reviews, that's the point.

  • Yossarian #126 3 years ago

    "I wonder if the reviewer saw anything of the real darkfall?"

    God, I hope not. That looks really dreadful.

  • Jockie #127 3 years ago

    Eurogamer never admitted to being 'wrong' in the first place. The fact they offered a second review in the first place shows that they were in actuality being fairer and more reasonable than most websites would have been, without undermining the support for their staff and writers. They in effect gave the game second chance in the interests of admitting that MMO's are difficult to review and that sometimes one opininion isn't sufficient.

    Sure it might bring hits, but how many Darkfall players who are gonna come here with rage in their hearts and nonsense spewing out of their fingertips are going to see the Conan ads all over the site and click them? I'd wager 0.

    Oh and if you're looking for an example of a site who manufactures controversy for the sake of ad rev & hits, look at CVG. Taking quotes out of interviews and news stories (and context) to make controversial headlines seems to be site policy over there.

  • Blakar #128 3 years ago

    Well, as a writer you're pretty skilled so it was an enjoyable read. Unfortunately all the stuff about the previous review seemed to be nothing more than justification for being biased. It's a bit as if they said "we'll pay you extra if you do a bit of PR". But what's the point? The Eurogamer crowd always supported Eurogamer and those who actually played Darkfall knew the review sucked.

    I think it's funny you're still trying to uphold that the previous review wasn't poorly executed. I suggest you go read it for a bit. At least you should be able to see that he couldn't have played a lot because he even wrote fallacies about the basics. Then again, you never noticed that the game actually does provide on screen info on whether you have your weapon unsheathed and which exactly it is ...

  • Gradius #129 3 years ago

    I are make LOVE to darkfall! YURO-GAYER is the review of donkey dicks! Zitron and Gillen are make the sweet love together but my guild of ZERG burning power kick +1 in your shitface. EarlBassett and PatAU are my best friends of the gayness, we enjoy to play with joystick of KY anal while darkfall we play for masturbation.

  • smirny #130 3 years ago

    I somehow seemed to miss the first round of this, but I have to say (and echo many others it seems) that was a very enjoyable review. :)

  • pauleyc #131 3 years ago

    150 comments and no mention of pre-patch fire-kicks? I'm disappointed.

    Excellent review, KG.

  • phatb0y #132 3 years ago

    This is quite disappointing. I was expecting an appearance from the worlds most gormless hive-mind, but they've yet to make their presence felt.

    More YouTube death threats plz.

  • andywilkie35 #133 3 years ago

    I was hoping for another 2/10

    Still sounds utter shite though.

  • jaguarwong #134 3 years ago

    I don't play MMO's at all but just wanted to say that was a thoroughly entertaining read.

    Cheers

  • seasidebaz #135 3 years ago

    This is quite disappointing. I was expecting an appearance from the worlds most gormless hive-mind, but they've yet to make their presence felt

    They're too busy performing DoS against Mortal Online's servers.

    Allegedly.

  • President_Weasel #136 3 years ago

    Neckbeards.... ASSEMBLE!

  • sonicgoo #137 3 years ago

    This is quite disappointing. I was expecting an appearance from the worlds most gormless hive-mind, but they've yet to make their presence felt.

    Maybe this will help: Reads like a 2!

  • nickthegun #138 3 years ago

    "This is quite disappointing. I was expecting an appearance from the worlds most gormless hive-mind"

    They appeared and kept typing 'DORKFAIL! LOL!' and 'I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT THEY SAY ON THEIR FORUMS!!!11'.

  • Anufea #139 3 years ago

    I really appreciate the huge effort Kieron put into writing this review. A great read with lots of interesting and thoughtful statements!

  • rushwind5 #140 3 years ago

    Awesome review. Haven't enjoyed a review that much in ages.

    The PR bit for Eurogamer seemed a bit out of place though. The quib about understanding the inaccuracy of the prior article struck me as odd. If you hadn't read it, a comment like that seems out of place.

    I don't personally agree with the bit about the controls either. I can appreciate that it could be confusing, but from playing the game and talking to other players, I would categorized it as 'annoying' as opposed to confusing. I don't see why the spells need a default spell either. You just click the spell you want to cast from the hotbar, seems straight forward enough.

    But again, the whole debacle seems worth it in the end, if that's what it took to get a great review like this. Taking down the other review till this one came out was still the move EG shoulda have taken. There is zero question in my mind that if the same situation had occurred with a major publisher, they would have done it that way.

  • Dexter2015 #141 3 years ago

    I my self playing World of Warcraft for over 3 years now about 20/30 hours a week (Yeah my real life sucks and I do not have better things too do). I hate like 5 burnouts but keep coming back. I still enjoying it mostly for the great people I am playing it with. I hate PVP and did try play on a pvp server and it did suck so much! Losing a couple of hours' worth of random loot will really piss me off Darkfall look too include everything I hate in WoW and more!

  • dingo75 #142 3 years ago

    Kickass review KG.
    Quality work as always!

    Now if the DF guys still don't shut up I advise you to do this:

    "Could have been worse, Darkfallers; they could have gotten Ellie Gibson to review it. "
    "
    How is that worse? Any review written by Ellie is guaranteed hilarious."

    Let Ellie finish them off once and for all :p

  • Grump #143 3 years ago

    Without adblock, Id be interested to see what is being shilled on this page. Be great value for the company buying ad space

    People who use adblock should be charged for accesing premium web content.

    Great review BTW. I can't say that I'll never give this a go so I look forward to the inevitable next re-review in about a years time.

  • Izoulakos #144 3 years ago

    Sorry to say this but Kieron shouldnt review a game that has already been reviewed. This is very unproffesional by him. But i guess Kieron has kids to feed and a big spender wife to support so i can understand him
    Even if everyone admits that the first reviewer was a retard, when you review a game thats it . Unless EG liked the traffic that was caused by enraged DFO fanboyz and wanted more of the same.......
    As for EG offering a second review seriously it seems your credibility hit the bottom with this. No offence but now i can see why Americans talk about eurotrash when they refer to everything coming from EU.
    i am a reader of EG for years as a guest, and its really sad for me that i had to register and and comment for the first time about how dissapointed i am about how low EG fall in the eyes of many of its readers in the last years :(
    I hope in the future EG would be more carefull about the ppl they choose to review games.
    And kieron even if your review was a great read about a game that i havent even heard plz next time you see money on your doorstep, dont bent over. Its for our reputation that we live for, damn it

  • pankomentarz #145 3 years ago

    Guess you don't really get the basic concept of a point of view, do you?

  • pankomentarz #146 3 years ago

    greek/norwegian.

    cool, eh?

  • Izoulakos #147 3 years ago

    i think most of the devs are from Norway or sweden but i maybe wrong.

  • Izoulakos #148 3 years ago

    Panko i hope you werent refering to my post. But if you did . this wasnt just another point of view. This was a 2nd review of a game that already had a review. i think the fact that Kieron awarded it with a mark ( 4/10 ) means that it was a review. i think its that simple
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 15:36

  • TheComedian #149 3 years ago

    One of the best reviews I've ever read on this (or any) site.

    Super super stuff by my fave reviewer :D

    Keep it up Kieron.

  • TheSnotGoblin #150 3 years ago

    Bah! Sellout. How much did Aventurine pay you to double their score? Hope it was enough to get your big-spender wife a new pair of shoes and a greasy burger for your hungry kids!

  • BremXJones #151 3 years ago

    I wish I had a pair of new shoes :(

    KG

  • Roamer #152 3 years ago

    Great review.

    Now looking forward to the review of Blood Bowl.

    Although I think I may have to wait for the Xbox360 version as my pc has aged badly...

  • Buenos_Estente #153 3 years ago

    BremX apparently your wife has plenty - do you like heels?

  • Izoulakos #154 3 years ago

    well i think EG paid him to ''write his comments'' . am i wrong?

  • Waldo #155 3 years ago

    HARDSTYLE!!

  • Coughthulu #156 3 years ago

    @Izoulakos:
    EG re-review MMOs. Look at WoW/LotRO/Conan. So, it's not been quite as long a gap as the re-reviews usually are, but it's not starting a "new trend" by any means.

    All in all, it sounded like a thoughtful unbiased review. And surely that's what a review should be?

    @BremX
    You want new shoes? You could always give us your own take on MGS4... ;)

  • UberFrog #157 3 years ago

    When will we get the 3rd DorkFail Review?

  • Super_Zee #158 3 years ago

    Brilliant, entertaining, beautifully written review. Excellent stuff.

  • Izoulakos #159 3 years ago

    @Coughthulu
    i myself think that kieron's review was a nice read . if its biased or unbiased i cant really tell cause i never played Darkfall and never will cause its too pvp-centric. But . What i didtn like is that after the first review EG immediatelly offered a second review by Kieron. why ? why the mighty Kieron should review an mmo that noone knew about? i mean is darkfall such an important mmo that kieron was needed to do it? And now that DFO got 4/10 will EG offer a new re-review?.......by god maybe?

  • Tonka #160 3 years ago

    I think Eurogamer readers have acted really childish in this affair. I'm ashamed for my fellow eurogamers. You are little better than NeoGAF posters. If I were a mod I would ban a lot of people here and most of them would be EGers.

  • Psychotext #161 3 years ago

    /waves at Tonka

  • AphoticCosmos #162 3 years ago

    "Bah! Sellout. How much did Aventurine pay you to double their score? Hope it was enough to get your big-spender wife a new pair of shoes and a greasy burger for your hungry kids!"

    Doubling their score is a misinterpretation of the facts. It improved from a scathing review to a negative but balanced review, and the game still earned an awful score. Besides, Aventurine specifically didn't want a re-review for some reason or other.

  • kendoji #163 3 years ago

    They did the re-review for the sake of editorial integrity. Hats off to them.

  • TheSnotGoblin #164 3 years ago

    "Bah! Sellout. How much did Aventurine pay you to counter a scathing review with a negative but balanced review whilst still awarding the game an awful score even though they specifically didn'twant a re-review for some reason or other!", doesn't have the same ring to it though.

  • Coughthulu #165 3 years ago

    @Izoulakos:
    I really see the offer of a second review as an act of good will, rather than trying to satisfy the developer. Adventurine claimed that the original reviewer hadn't played for nearly long enough, so EG basically said "Well, that's not what we believe, but if you really feel that strongly about it, then what about if a different reviewer played it?". I really don't think there was any other motive behind it but to offer them a different perspective, rather than a new review that would placate them.

    After all, I really don't think Kieron's review is going to do this. :)

    I've not read it for ages, but doesn't Games(tm) have a 2nd opinion for all the games it reviews?

  • cwk27 #166 3 years ago

    I could use some crazed fellatio.

  • PyroKid #167 3 years ago

    A very fair article imo opinion - tho from what i read in the review i would have scored it higher.

    Ive played darkfall for 5months now and everything starts to make sense after the first few brutal weeks. There is a clear difference between the "noob areas" where reviewers spend most of their time and the rest of world (this is not a flame - just a fact that because df is about character developement it seems unreasonable to expect a new character to be able to compete with a 5 month old character.)

    Many of the problems addressed actually become reli helpful once you get used to the game - if you have a wand equipped then you just press a number on your hotbar to choose/change spell. It all becomes logical - you have to put away your sword when you loot someone - thers no "autoloot" button too - and so looting takes its due time and you are vunerable when you do. Its the price you pay for being greedy.

    I strongly reccomend that anyone slightly tempted by the good points of the review try this game or atleast go search darkfall on youtube. The videos often speak louder than any review. For you lazy ones heres one of my favourite ones that will show the full capabilties of this game.

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=xB48NVF4Xvg
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=xB48NVF4Xvg
    [/link]

    PS darkfall is not perfect, but it is not bad. There have and still are problems but the developers seemed have woken up recently and are constantly tweaking and fixing the game. Each patch is a step towards 10/10

    Pyro

  • Kerome #168 3 years ago

    After reading all that, it looks like the developers decided to simulate Medieval-times Real Life in an mmo, but neglected to include The Law and torture, long-lasting imprisonment or permanent death for offenders. A giant continuous free-for-all brawl does not cut the mustard - it wasn't fun in the early days of Ultima Online, and it's not fun now.

  • IronCladChicken #169 3 years ago

    @Kerome
    Dude if you think that's what medieval life was like I'd reccommend you read 'Medieval Lives' by Terry Jones.

  • hahayou #170 3 years ago

    Really, Kieron, I'd never have guessed that you were...

    INTERLUDE 1
    -long blog style ramble about philisophy of posting Eurogamer comments-

    ...paid by the word.

    ;)

  • Grump #171 3 years ago

    @PyroKid

    Based on the reviews I can't justify paying just to 'give it a go'. If a free trial were available then I definitely would since I like to keep an open mind about such things.

    Maybe that's what the developers need to do - offer a free trial so that more people can make up their own minds.

  • Trikk #172 3 years ago

    To be perfectly fair to Eurogamer, this is the same website that gave the cult game Mount & Blade a 5/10 score.

    And Halo 3 got 10/10.

    Let that sink in for a bit.

    Mount & Blade 5/10; Halo 3 10/10.

  • eddiep #173 3 years ago

    Awesome review. Congratulations.

  • BremXJones #174 3 years ago

    For the record, I love Mount & Blade.

    KG

  • Buenos_Estente #175 3 years ago

    hmmm if i was allowed to wear waterproof shoes would i still get fellatio

    /misses point

  • Egghaus #176 3 years ago

    Sounds pretty fair I guess. At least he isn't making stuff up like the last reviewer. Although Kieron, you should probably learn how to hotkey. And you can see very clearly whether your weapon is seithed or not on the hotkey bar. I really thought you were making too much of a big deal out of it.

    Darkfall is definitely not a game for everyone. Especially not for those who don't know how to aim and hit targets like the last reviewer. :)

  • Lemming81 #177 3 years ago

    "This is quite disappointing. I was expecting an appearance from the worlds most gormless hive-mind, but they've yet to make their presence felt."

    Go to their forum and read the thread on the review. it's full of lols and win in that department.

    One of the posts even accuses Keiron of being 'a console gamer they gave a PC game to review'. Probably the most incorrect statement ever.
    Edited by 2 at 17/07/09 @ 17:12

  • Deckard1 #178 3 years ago

    I've got no interest in this game what so ever, but that was one of the best reviews I've ever read. Well done mate.

  • Bazfrag #179 3 years ago

    Hahaha. That was the best thing to happen IN THE WORLD for quite some time.

    Kudos for mentioning Dwarf Fortress, and a pox on anyone that moans this time.
    Edited by 2 at 17/07/09 @ 17:53

  • gmjapan #180 3 years ago

    I saw the page 1of4 and thought 'meh' i'd never read it all just yet, before i knew it I was at the end reading the score. Sweet review!

  • ZuluHero #181 3 years ago

    Well its going up! Maybe if the whole community come over to complain again it will get 8/10 ;)

    At least thay can't complain that Kieron doesn't have any MMO history... a well written and quite funny review. never saw it coming, but at least that can't say that EG aren't true to their word :)

  • mordarsnigel #182 3 years ago

    It has been said a bazillion times already, still: Great review. I groaned a bit when I first saw it was four pages long, yet at the end I wished it was even longer (and promptly headed over to RPS). Here's to hoping people actually read it, instead of skipping straight to the score.

  • Bazfrag #183 3 years ago

    Nope, His literacy skills are lacking methinks :p

    "This is very unproffesional by him." :()

    The ironing is delicious.
    Edited by 2 at 17/07/09 @ 18:04

  • velimirius #184 3 years ago

    Is this about Darkfail or Darkfall?

  • hiddenranbir #185 3 years ago

    Maybe a few more hours would have helped it get 2 more points. ;)

  • scimitarDT #186 3 years ago

    Good review, you can feel that he deliberated over his angle for a looong time. I played it for two months after following it since 2002.
    I have stopped playing it now as it was just not good enough to hold my interest. Too buggy, very hard to play in a small group or solo and unrefined.
    However, it's a shame they didn't review at this month as the new 'expansion' is out and it sounds like it adds a lot of cool features into the game.
    Anyway, I think I would have given it a 5/10 at the moment, all things considered.

  • MightyMouse #187 3 years ago

    This has to rank as the best review I've read - a considered piece that really shows the joys and frustrations of the game.

  • BartonFink #188 3 years ago

    Yup fantastic review one of the best I have ever read here.

    Reviewed like an awful game.

  • Bazfrag #189 3 years ago

    @Mightymouse.

    Agreed, It was fair and balanced, and shows how hard it is to review a mmorpg.

    The positives for this game almost sway me into trying it, but i have moaned for years that games can be complex, and deep, without losing what IMO is crucial: accessability and control. I would, by all accounts, find this game frustrating. On the flipside, i applaud Wow for its accessability, but would love things like proper pvp, player looting, houses, etc. There must be a happy medium??

  • Tonka #190 3 years ago

    98% of the people who post here are attention whores.
    I make up the other 2%

  • trashburner #191 3 years ago

    "I'm more disappointed with the continued fall of eurogamer rather than the score of this game (which incidentally I havent even bothered to check). The fact that they had to RE-REVIEW a title under these circumstances suggests there is a serious credibility issue here. Otherwise they would have refused to review it a second time. "

    quoted for truth

    "They haven't taken the first review away and you now have a second opinion.

    It doesn't affect their credibility at all" -pear of anguish

    LOL, pear you are clearly an idiot.

    you dont think it ruins the credibility of eurogamer by having to re-review a game because in the first review the reviewer spent two hours in the game and wrote a review riddled with factual errors? Wow, i am glad I don't have to go through life with as tiny a brain as you have.

    Keirons review has to stretch to list bad things about the game, like the compexity of pressing 1 then 2 to load up a spell and then click mouse to cast it and desregarded the siege system and the fact that darkfall is a pvp game about risk vs reward where player skill is the greatest factor rather than gear or levels. Keiron coudlnt give this review anything over a 4/10 because if he gave the game the real score it deserves that would mean that eurogamer was wrong, do you honestly think eurogamer would pay a reveiwer to ruin their credibility? I think not, aventurine was right. I strongly suspect the eurogamer site, being one of the largest european game review sites, is just a corporate whore who's shills are paid by the big corporations gaming corporations to write bad reviews of indie games so as not to lose customers. Funcom representatives have been viral anti-marketing darkfall from before beta and you would be an idiot to think that Eurogamer wont give a biased reveiw based on who is paying them for ad revenue. All one needs to do is look at the current ads on eurogamer to figure it out. Eurogamer are corporate whores, their credibility is forever in the toilet, only idiots cannot see that. Its sad that most of the lemmings on this website wont even try darkfall because they are dumb enough to believe corporate shills like ed zitron, they are really missing the best pvpmmorpg atm. I've had more fun playing darkfall than I've had in three years of WoW, there hasn't been a better pvpmmorpg since ultima online sad to say.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/09 @ 20:44

  • peak_performance #192 3 years ago

    Finally, the hardstyle retards have entered the thread.

  • trashburner #193 3 years ago

    I have never seen a such greater concentration of trolls and retards. you guys are so much worse than the "rabid darkfall fans" you hate so much. Its pathetic really, I relish in the fact that I am not nearly as pathetic as you.

  • trashburner #194 3 years ago

    "98% of the people who post here are attention whores.
    I make up the other 2% "

    I agree with this statement, these idiots are so starved for attention they will say anything to get a reaction. What they are too stupid to understand is that they have an attention craving complex and for whatever reason, (usually a shit personality or attitute) they are unable to get any positive attention in their lives so negative attention will suffice, as long at its SOMETHING so that they can feel alive. These trolls are just immature kids whos mommy or daddy didn't give them enough attention or the kids at school didn't like them enough so they have developed complexes, its sad really, how some "people" will say the most rediculous things in order to get a reaction. Its why bored housewives start fights with their husbands just so they can get some emotion in their lives. You pathetic trolls on this forum are just truly sad wastes of human life being reduced to internet trolling. you trolls are human garbage and I thank my lucky stars I am nowhere near as pathetic as you.

  • peak_performance #195 3 years ago

    Well, we're not the ones claiming a whole site staff, including freelancers, edit their opinions of the game just to get a few extra hits. And no, having a controversial review of Darkfall isn't exactly the hit magnet you seem to think it is.

    Indie games that have gotten rave review by EG pretty recently: World of Goo. Braid. Zeno Clash got thumbs up.
    Big game launches that have gotten uncontroversial scores: Killzone 2 (off the top of my head at least, I follow few AAA games these days).

    Even if Zitrons review had its problems, EG offered another take on the game by another reviewer. Who found lots of faults other than "bad controls", but pointed out that some people obviously will love it. What more can you demand?

    Nitwit.

  • creepylizard #196 3 years ago

    God, my punctuality and spelling glands are pulsating with anguish again...

  • Ez3kiel. #197 3 years ago

    Wurm Online is better than this grindan.

  • LowEnergyCycle #198 3 years ago

    I fucking hate conspiracy theorists.

    Eurogamer collectively don't care what you think, and this was a good review and a good idea.

    Now go outdoors. I insist.

  • rushwind5 #199 3 years ago

    For clarification purposes, it is entirely possible to tell which weapon you have equipped and if its sheathed/unsheathed. Note the screen shots in the article. There's a circle underneath the hotbar. It tells you which weapon is equipped and if its green then the weapon is unsheathed.

  • Bremenacht #200 3 years ago

    2/10
    4/10
    [sigh]

    Play Dorkfail off, Keyboard cat

  • Xiede #201 3 years ago

    What a great review! This is the first time a review has prompted me to actually register and post a response. I really don't care about the game. I really appreciate your well thought out attempt to draw a path through the politics of the situation and offer a well-reasoned and substantiated opinion of your experience with the game.

    If you are actually paid by the word, you deserve a few more cents per; your review has brought Eurogamer another regular reader.

    I'm looking forward to more equally insightful and entertaining pieces.

  • Thamuz #202 3 years ago

    First of all...forgive my German English.

    Darkfall is NOT following the whistle!
    Rest is not my maxx skill...you'll find other possibilities...if you try :)
    Yes, you'll fight the goblins, you'll fight the trolls...thats how you get stronger. (some may remember)
    "This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's reasonable to strip down to your pants."
    This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's NOT reasonable to strip down to your pants, because you're weak and you'll loose!
    "I turn on the spot and run for my life."
    That's Darkfall - It's AV's game mechanic. You rely on it or you leave. It's nothing wrong, it's just different.
    In your article, you wasted around 251 words to discuss the issue how to select a weapon...why?
    Can't you manage this? They don't follow the whistle! It's weapon using skill not implemented in-game.
    In-game everybody is equal. Don't trust, find your friends, find the truth.
    If you don't like this..don't blame it. It's not an interface issue.

    NoSig.




  • FooAtari #203 3 years ago

    "plus do you think if EG hadnt have got 300 posts on the original review they would have bothered doing a second.i doubt it as this review and its many hits is good for buisness."

    Don't fool yourself, the 300 posts were mostly made by regular readers and Darkfall zealots. Most people couldn't care less about the game and I very much doubt this review brings a meaningful amount of extra hits, apart from Darkfall fans invading the place in misguided mission to defend their game.

  • KillerMonkey #204 3 years ago

    All those youtube vids these Darkfall fans link here are some of the most boring crap I've ever seen.
    It doesn't help they're all in crispy clear HD either, makes the game look worse.

  • sarcasmoidosis #205 3 years ago

    I expected a higher score while reading the review, but I do understand the "stay away" remark.

    Then again, if you can't be arsed to read 4 pages and just skip to the final score, DF is probably not for you anyway :)

  • Bremenacht #206 3 years ago

    Then again, if you can't be arsed to read 4 pages and just skip to the final score, DF is probably not for you anyway :)

    Then why do so many Dorkfailers do just that?

  • sarcasmoidosis #207 3 years ago

    Because they feel they don't need to read, as it's just a semi-apology for the 2/10. Or most of them just missed the irony in the review completely. Yeah, I've been to their forum ;)

  • ZuluHero #208 3 years ago

    @trashburner

    "(usually a shit personality or attitute)"

    /whistles

    Says the pot calling the kettle....

  • Izoulakos #209 3 years ago

    @redstanza
    i dont think EG has or had a writer from Greece. i maybe wrong. Plus my english as you can see are not very good

    The reason i am pissed off is because EG didnt stick with the first DFO review but he offered a second review by Kieron
    What was the point really? Why did DFO deserve a second review and why from kieron ?
    Did the enrage DFO fanboyz ( i dotn have anything with you guys) did the trick?
    So i can asume that from now on whenever a game gets a really low score and ppl go bananas kieron will come to resque Eg's credibility. Am i right?

    Anyway if DFO is really a crap game i really hope it gets better with the help of its community not because i love pvp-centric mmo's but because the game industry needs indie developers and their fresh ideas in this saturated market.

    ps. Well reading kieron's ''review'' i was also expecting something more than 4/10 as he was more positive than Zitron . But then again a higher score would have proven that Zitron was a retarded reviewer. Right? :S


  • peak_performance #210 3 years ago

    No, it would have further proved that different people like different games.

  • Calundann #211 3 years ago

    @trashburner
    You come to EG spewing stuff about us being attention seekers?
    "Seek" kinda implies you have to look for it somewhere else, kinda ironic if you ask me.
    Rereading your post, it seems your venting about your own real life problems.
    lol, wife trouble?

    Great review btw, I love the british writing style. Almost makes me want to say sorry for Danelaw and 1016 (Never forget!)
    Edited by 1 at 18/07/09 @ 02:21

  • Harmonica #212 3 years ago

    What this really proves is that EG needs more four-page reviews.

  • quantumsheep #213 3 years ago

    @Izoulakos

    I've written for EG. And I'm greek.

    Thanks!

    Byeeeee!
    Edited by 2 at 18/07/09 @ 05:59

  • wonton #214 3 years ago

    Nomination for best review ever?

  • Gnort #215 3 years ago

    Fantastic review, Mr Gillen. I was wondering how a follow-up review would be handled, but I think you have been more than fair with it.

  • poopmonster #216 3 years ago

    I think this was a particularly excellent review.

    If you're judging whether the game is worth playing from the score, you're a mindless idiot.

    To me it sounds like old-school (pre-nerf) Ultima Online. And UO was a right fucking mess when it first came out - if it had better competition that Meridian 59, it would have sunk.

    And you know what? I really miss those days. I LIKE the idea of hard graft for hard rewards, of feeling genuine peril and the threat of losing everything. Christ, the world of MMO has turned into a hand-holding Disneyland experience, and anyone who likes it is a cross-dressing cry baby.

    So anyway, the only reason I'm not going to give DO a go is because FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HOW DO YOU BUY THE FUCKING GAME?

    Go to their website. Click BUY ME. It asks you to create an account. Create an account, and activate from a receipt email. So now you have an account, where you can enter billing info. WHERE IS THE PURCHASE BUTTON? I'm not giving my fucking credit card details to anyone before seeing what I'm getting in return, and for how much. It doesn't mention the pricing ANYWHERE, and you'll not find it in their forums either.

    I'll take a game with niche appeal anytime if it fits my niche. But for the fact that they can't even fucking sell it, it sure as hell deserves a crap score for sheer crapness in their sales and communications.

    Now, if anyone can solve the riddle of How To Buy DO -- while I'm still interested -- I might actually give it a go.

  • Ebicurry #217 3 years ago

    darkfall deserves to suffer as they made people wait so friggin long for this game. I didn't play the game as I got tired of the on going beta is coming shortly promises. I do like the Ultima Online looting and pking style this game has, but as the reviewer said, it is for niche players and therefore will either change soon or fail big time.

  • PyroKid #218 3 years ago

    actually, the more i thnk about it, the more retarded it sounds.

    Darkfall uses a WASD movement. It has a 10 hot bars (numbered 0-9) with 10 slots (numbered 0-9). Same controls as any other fps except like most MMOs, you select stuff from your hotbar with keys 1234567890. you press R to switch between sheath and unsheathe (basically combat and passive mode). F is the use button. then basic binds for everything else (m for map, b for bag etc) reli not that complicated?

  • PearOfAnguish #219 3 years ago

    Oh no, a Darkfall fan called me a retard :(

    "you dont think it ruins the credibility of eurogamer by having to re-review a game because in the first review the reviewer spent two hours in the game and wrote a review riddled with factual errors?"

    They didn't have to, you cretin. If the first review was so awful they would have just replaced it, it would not be on the site any more. Instead they offered the developers a second opinion from another writer.

    You idiots seem to think that having another person review the game automatically invalidates everything the first review said and is an admission of guilt.

    Do keep going with your conspiracy theories though. Please explain in more detail how a well known games journalist is pandering to the whims of a single web site. Use your obviously massive brain to tell us all about it. Perhaps the Knights Templar had a hand in this?

    "i am glad I don't have to go through life with as tiny a brain as you have."

    It can't be that tiny, I have enough intelligence to prevent me from spending my money on a shitty game and getting so personally involved in it that I literally wet my panties when someone says something I don't like about it. Boo-hoo :(

  • Archenon #220 3 years ago

    @poopmonster

    Nothing will be charged when you give your billing infomation in account management. After you have given it you go to tab shop or subscription in account mangement to buy the game. It used to be "shop" but I don't see one named that anymore. Of course I own the game already so that may be the reason I just have subscription tab. Also management sometimes didn't load tab menu properly and you had to relog/refresh to get it shown. Don't know if that problem still exists since whole account management seems to have been reworked.

    @review(er)

    Review was great. Thank you. This time I could recognize game I've been playing since day one and points about it's strengths and flaws were mostly valid. I would have scored it double tho ;) But that's just a matter of opinion this time. Not matter of someone with attidute problems making up bullshit and bashing game I love - without ever giving it a shot like last time. Even based on article (without score) I would have thought "Omg! I must have this game. It might be what I've been waiting for years since quitting Asheron's Call. GOOD open pvp fantasy mmo". And quess what. That's what it is. It's best you can get now even with it's flaws. And it's getting better at unbelieveable speed. But... that's just my opinion.

    Edit 2: I honestly hope those screaming idiots from dfo community don't find and spoil this thread. Sadly it seems EGs own "defense front" is trying to do that without their dfo friends.
    Edited by 2 at 19/07/09 @ 02:49

  • Tiak #221 3 years ago

    This wasan excellent review, reflecting rather well how most people who have actually played the game for reasonable timespans end up viewing it (except perhapse the score, as different people weight its strengths and weaknesses differently). If anything, this review misses many of the flaws of the game that come with more experience, while catching the all of the strengths (other than endgame and large-scale pvp which are beyond the scope of this particular review).

    There is a reason Darkfall fans haven't been here complaining this time around, because this was a professional review that reads like something written by someone who has played the game and taken the time to figure out the most basic of game mechanics rather than not.

  • trashburner #222 3 years ago

    lol, pear of anguish is a flaming idiot, yea gaming sites do 2nd reviews all the time and its not a re-review right? its a "second opinion" lol you are truly a moron.

  • trashburner #223 3 years ago

    yea pearofangish, they didn't re-review the game because the first review was filled with factual errors and b/c of the fact the reveiwer only spent 2 hours in the game, its just a second opinion, gaming websites do it all the time for no reason at all.

    LOL, you are stupid as hell and nobody should bother arguing with an idiot such as yourself.

    Why don't you waste more of your pathetic life making retarded statements on a game review websites like someone is somehow enlightened by the vomit that your tiny brain conjures.

  • trashburner #224 3 years ago

    lol@butthurt eurogamer fans, sorry but your fave websites credibility is compromised. get mad and deny it all you want, the intelligent people have spoken. Ed Zitrons career RIP.

  • sarcasmoidosis #225 3 years ago

    trashburner, there's so much (unintentional) irony in your posts, it's unbelievable :)

    Just as a fact. Age of Conan has had 2 or 3 re-reviews on this site.

  • UncleLou #226 3 years ago

    The DO players just aren't very bright, are they. At least those that post here. Or maybe they're all very young. I don't even mean that maliciously as an insult, it's just an observation. I like the passion and sincerity though, that makes for an amusing combination. :)

  • FooAtari #227 3 years ago

    Your an amusing guy trashburner.

  • Skurmedel #228 3 years ago

    Must resist... pointing out... the irony...

  • PearOfAnguish #229 3 years ago

    Oh my, trashburner is getting awfully upset. Just think, all this time wasted angrily bashing his keyboard here could have been spent living hardstyle in Darkfall.

    This isn't the first game that's ever gotten more than one review on here, you nitwit.

  • Lovemoose #230 3 years ago

    I think we should take an average at 3/10 and leave it at that.

  • President_Weasel #231 3 years ago

    Dear Archenon,

    This thread needs more people like you. Hell, the world does.
    I hope you get a great deal of enjoyment out of Darkfall and that it lives up to the potential you can see in it.

    Best regards,
    Some random guy in a comments thread.

  • Sockbag #232 3 years ago

    With the notable exception of trashburner, there's a disappointing lack of Forumfaller vitriol this time round. Maybe that's 'cause the game is bleeding subs?

  • fluxd3 #233 3 years ago

    I seldom read game reviews and never read EuroGamer (I came from a link on Lum's blog), but I enjoyed this one and the ongoing controversy. As the review hinted at and some other comments have said, it might just be that MMOs are fundamentally un-reviewable. The time required to get a good sense of the game is so long that no one writing reviews for a semi-living can spend that long on one piece. Furthermore, reviewers are human. If you don't enjoy playing a game you're not going to sink 50 hours into it just to know precisely why you don't like it.

    I do find it funny that even the Darkfall defenders in this thread are like, "You've got to suffer the grind and constant PKing for a few weeks before it becomes fun." Wow, that sounds awesome! Where do I sign up?

    That fact does something to explain the kinds of posts you see from Darkfall players, though. Besides the fact that they've all invested hundreds of hours into the game and thus feel a sort of ownership/loyalty, ask yourself what type of person (age, job, social life, etc) has that much free time to play any video game? Let's be honest, most of us were smart mouthed assholes when we were 14 and playing games 8 hours a day too.

  • Trikk #234 3 years ago

    Let's be honest, most of us were smart mouthed assholes when we were 14 and playing games 8 hours a day too.

    According to every poll I've seen on the official site, the vast majority of players are 20-30 years old. Darkfall is a game you don't need to grind in at all, I don't know why people keep claiming that you do. You can take part in the endgame as soon as you make your character. There are no level requirements, gear can be worn by anyone, etc.

    MMORPGs might be hard to review, but blatantly misrepresenting something and then spending half a page attacking that point that you misrepresented doesn't improve anyone's understanding of the game. (Talking about the whole "weapon switch" fiasco in this review.)

  • YourMessageHere #235 3 years ago

    Superb writing, mr Gillen. A joy to read.

    Anyone whining about EG's credibility at this stage has critically failed to comprehend what actually constitutes credibility in the first place.

    People who use adblock should be charged for accesing premium web content.

    People who create ads that loop sounds, music and video unasked, slow the whole PC down to a crawl by using every available CPU cycle and force me to stop my music, remove my headphones and ultimately close my browser, without being able to access or read the news stories (which the ads are supposed to be designed to be no more than additions to), should damn well pay me for my inconvenience. People who put these appalling ads on their site should not complain about use of adblock or similar in the slightest, especially as I'm ultimately saving them bandwidth. People who, for whatever crazy reason, take it upon themselves to defend this idiotic arrangement on the ad displayer's behalf need to stop doing so immediately.
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 03:36

  • Henrik_se #236 3 years ago

    @Trikk: What "weapon switch fiasco"?

    The first review also got attacked for being a bad review because the reviewer couldn't figure out some part of the interface. A lot of people, even on the Darkfall forums, say that the interface is really, really bad. But somehow, reviewers are supposed to be super-humanly good at figuring out even the really bad ones, and not mention it in the review?

    That's insane. If the interface is really bad, then even seasoned reviewers will have problems with some parts of the interface, and not being able to figure out something that is "obvious" to players who spent 100+ hours on the game does not make the reviewer a noob, and it does not make the review a fiasco.

  • the_mtfr #237 3 years ago

    Better than Darkfall then?

  • Harry_Tod #238 3 years ago

    Myself being a DF player I have to admit it's a good article. 2 things though.
    1 - game control system. It's not perfect, but it's a good ballance. Obviously the devs wanted you to be vulnerable while looting/crafting/interacting with players and NPCs, so you have sheath/unsheath weapon. And it is realistic to some degree, even though games rarely follow this, you obviously cant loot/craft/trade shit while holding a weapon and a shield. Feel free to come up with an idea how to accomplish the same thing in another way.
    2 - since you're down the re-review path, you might want to do another one in 1-2 months. This is not sarcasm. I mean, the game is being patched/fixed constantly. Due to exploits/bugs at start 2/10 was probably due. At this moment 4/10(tbh after reading the review I expected more like 5 but it's okay) is probably right as well. The thing you didnt mention, or I failed to spot, is how fast the devs improve the game, many many things are patched in the game, just not yet polished/activated. As someone said, EVE and UO wasnt 10/10 at start either, they walked there eventually(and yeah, it is my personal oppinion that both these games deserve 10/10 or very close to it).
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 00:13

  • Harry_Tod #239 3 years ago

    oh, forgot to mention there IS a way to tell what you have equiped, and if it is sheathed or unsheated. On any screenshot in the first 2 pages of the article, go look for the sword in the green circle just bellow the action bar. Green+sword probably means you have a sword and it is unsheated. On page 3 the screenshot, notice how it's not green any more? SS on page 4 - now it's a green 2h sword.

    PS: the screenshots attached to the article are from a previous patch, since then a tooltip window has been added, every time you switch a weapon/skill/spell it shows in this tooltip your current skill and some brief info. Guess what the reviewer saw as bad in the control system has already been addressed.
    Edited by 2 at 20/07/09 @ 00:32

  • Bremenacht #240 3 years ago

    Harry_Tod - I think Aventurine shouldn't have invited EG to review an incomplete and messy game in the first place. It'd have saved them a lot of difficulty (and ridicule), if they'd left it until a point where most of the DF community itself was happy with what they'd got, rather than just the zealots. In any case, EG scores are often disputed by readers, and this one shouldn't be treated any different. If the review itself reads Ok to you, then that's great.

  • Archenon #241 3 years ago

    Since pvp is what Darkfall is all about and most videos linked by my fellow DFOers don't show lots of small scale pvp but spell bombardement and messy mass melees I'll throw in few videos with excellent solo pking material.

    Part 1
    Part 2

    Sadly many of his opponents turn away and run pretty fast without giving good fight but especially end of part 2 shows how good player on a bit above average character and decent gear defeats larger force of (non-newbie) opponents. As you can see people go down pretty fast and combat is fast-paced and has many tactical elements.

    And... where are naked opponents or problems with changing weapons or spells? Nakedness is probably good choice at very beginning of your DFO career but after getting some decent gear and some more skills on your character you don't want to go anywhere without arrows, mount (for traveling and fleeing), reagents (for spell-casting) or food and potions (for making it faster to recover). When you go to PvP you'll also probably want to take decent weapons (to get ~100% more damage) and armor (to get ~25% away from your opponents damage). That's a hell of a pile to lose to one unfortunate death. Gladly that's also what you will gain after defeating any serious opponent.
    You can see that Darkfall GUI can be used to switch weapons and react fast to changing situation on battlefield too.

    Also video shows some problems still in game. Animations get totally fucked up after Helba does whirlwind attack and mount stays floating in the air where it's rider is killed. Annoying but far from game-breaking. Underwater archery will probably be fixed out soon since you already can't ready bow underwater or shoot from surface to depths. But first AV needs to figure out how they can make chases at water interesting without it I quess.

    You'll also see he has encountered and killed probably some of those immature whiners who earlier came here to spam EZ review comment thread with nonsense ;) But don't draw "dfo community is this and that" card. Every online game community is like that and always will be.
    (DON'T think I'm on EZ side anyway. That review had nothing to do with real game. Period. I just like constructive conversation more than thrashtalking)

    I hope at least some of you enjoy these videos! I certainly did.
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 01:37

  • Grayvern #242 3 years ago

    The fact of the matter is Ed Zitron isnt one of the Eurogamer regulars, however he has done work for other publications the Eurogamer eds obviously had no reason to doubt his review.

    The second review isnt a massive issue either it has been done on other occasions, Resistance 1 for instance. Saying a second review constitutes a lack of integrity is arse backwards, a second review indicates responsibility (a responsibility to provide a good review service) It doesn't necessarily constitute an admission that the first review is rubbish but does provide an opinion to balance it and a fallback if the unsubjective element of playtime can be satisfactorally verified.

    Reviews themselves being subjective. I would stand by the Zitron review if it was found that he had played for the number of hours he stated he had.

    What Kieron was getting at with his issues over controlls is that they add difficulty and frustration outside intended challenge. Like being poked in the eye or having you hands covered in glue while playing Street Fighter IV.
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 03:18

  • Harry_Tod #243 3 years ago

    @Bremenacht - check this SS:
    [link url=htt p://img24.imageshack.us/img24/364/35506677.jpg
    ]http://im g24.imageshack.us/img24/364/355...[/link]
    compare it to the SSs of the autor. See the compass, the staff in the green circle, then the spell tooltip? tell me again it is really hard to understand that you have unsheated a staff, and the lay on hands spell is loaded.
    Also this review while good about the starting areas, game controls and the other basic stuff, is really lacking the endgame features. It's also lacking the features of the recent expansion from 10 or so days ago, even though he mentions it and drops a link.
    In WoW terms comparison, this review was about lvl 1-79, with no mention of party, raid, dungeons, heroics, raid heroics, achievements, arenas. Anyone that have played WoW knows that as enjoying the leveling could be, the real game starts at lvl 80.
    In DF terms it doesnt mention much about clans and alliances and relations, nothing about housing, ships, siege equipment, wars, city sieges, title quests, scrolls, nexus.

    edit: To answer you saying "I think Aventurine shouldn't have invited EG to review an incomplete and messy game in the first place." - the original reviewer had way too many errors, he didnt hit the incomplete and messy things in the game(yes, there are such, some of them are really bad), instead he wrote about a number of imaginary faults. Also neither of them accounted for how fast the devs fix/change/add stuff.
    Edited by 2 at 20/07/09 @ 10:11

  • kangarootoo #244 3 years ago

    @trashburner

    I for one am glad you are getting such a strop on here. I guess it means you aren't starting fights with members of your family in order to inject some emotion into your life. There is clearly no shortage of emotion in your life, least not where the internet is concerned.


    And btw, questioning a reviewer's "credibility" every time they express a different opinion to you is THE single most unoriginal and boring thing anyone can possibly say on a review comments thread. Whenever I read a post questioning credibility, I immediately think "there is a kid who think they can make a point by using a grown up word". Seriously.

  • kangarootoo #245 3 years ago

    @Harry_Tod and Archenon

    Good posts both of you. Interesting stuff.

  • DrMGinius #246 3 years ago

    "My friend Bloo, he is a total dork"

    That was hilarous, but even if we assume he´s name was "Blood-ork" keeps sounding dumb.

    I sometimes play a MMO for 15 min then quit, but as a reviewer, he can´t do that. Playing a game you really don´t like, it doesnt seems to be very easy, you know, play it for hours. And he bothered on making a re-review. Thats a good work, and also, is difficult to review a MMO...

    But the controversy keeps going. Controversy will probablly only bring more people to EG, BTW...
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 12:14

  • actionfitz #247 3 years ago

    "This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's reasonable to strip down to your pants."

    loved this bit, as expected loads of comments like 'Just like real life!'
    ...i love this site :D

  • Archenon #248 3 years ago

    "This is a world where, if you're expecting trouble, it's reasonable to strip down to your pants."

    loved this bit, as expected loads of comments like 'Just like real life!'
    ...i love this site :D

    It depends. If you plan to fight any serious opponent you better be geared. If you just expect to die then it's better to have nothing to lose on you. But death is pretty much everything you can achieve naked.

    Edit:
    http://ww w.wegame.com/watch/1v_A_bunch_o... Another nice PvP video

    Reason I post this here is not to spam yet more DFO videos but to demonstrate how much good wearing robe or being naked will do to you. You'll see two guys (or same guy twice) coming back naked. First time he is brought down from half health in four hits. Second time guy runs at once when he is attacked. Robed guy also falls really fast once he is targetted by maker of video.
    Upload site of this video is real shit however. Browser crashed several times when I was trying to watch it. So I hope those of you who are actually intrested to see have patience to get past possible browser problems.
    Edited by 4 at 20/07/09 @ 20:02

  • trashburner #249 3 years ago

    lol@ all the attention whore eurogamer fans, sorry losers, your fave websites credibility has been compromised. deny it all you want, call it a "second opinion" (LOL). kieron has attempted to save the face of eurogamer and failed. waste your life trolling these comments section more. you make me feel better about myself that I am not nearly as pathetic as you..

  • trashburner #250 3 years ago

    also only reason age of conan gets re-reviews, or as pearofangish likes to call them "second opinions"(LOL) is because age of conan is paying eurogamer as you can see by the ads. corporate shill website is corporate shill. whoa, big surprise! look trolls giving you the attention you so desperately need=D are you happy now pathetic wastes of life?

  • trashburner #251 3 years ago

    oh noes the rabid eurogamer fans hates me ;[ boo hoo.

    arch dont even try to convince these idiots, you are just throwing your pearls before swine.

    these are just no life trolls who have nothing better to do than live on the forums of various internet websites expunging the vomit that their tiny brains conjures in order to get a reaction. they are the most pathetic and low life scrum of the internet. im so glad im not one of them, i just come here occasionally to point out to them how truely pitifull they are, it makes me smile :)
    Edited by 1 at 20/07/09 @ 19:15

  • Bremenacht #252 3 years ago

    Not really. You just come across as being one of the many dork sadcases from the Dorkfail forum.

    (LOL)

    Keep posting though - all these page hits drive up revenues and make EG magazine the outstanding success that it is.

    /clicks AoC and WoW links

  • Archenon #253 3 years ago

    Trashburner. Probably would be best if you stopped throwing your "pearls" to these swines too. They certainly wont become hardcore enough no matter how hard you throw your pearls at them. You might try to mentally crush your enemy guild at forumfall instead. EG site can field more trashtalkers on it's own than it would be healthy to any half civilized conversation. There's nothing to be achieved by trashtalking more.

  • mcappy #254 3 years ago

    That was certainly an improvement over the first review. While I understand backing the validity of the first review, as a Darkfall player I can tell you with no hesitation that it was, without a doubt, the most dishonest professional review I've ever read. Aventurine's handling of it was horrible, true, but they most definitely had a reason to be upset. Negative opinions are fine, factual misrepresentation is not. Though I know it was forced, qualifying the gripe about the lack of a default spell with "I think" was far more than the first reviewer ever did.

    One thing I can't agree with is that a poor review like that should be blamed on the developer for lack of information - MMOs thrive on community, and simple questions followed by simple answers would have eliminated many of his problems. Saying something like 'Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. It isn't even an issue of timing your clicks based on the connection with your sword - it's nigh-on random. isn't simply due to lack of information. He made a false assumption and passed it off as fact without so much as verifying it with one of the other thousands of players online. There's no excuse for that, I'm sorry. Anyway, that was a rant - this review did no such thing. *(for those that don't play, the statement in italics is not how the game works...if they're actually within the arc of your weapon swing, it hits. Always.)

    Anyway, this review was much better. I really can't fully agree (I guess the fact that I play the game makes that obvious), but I felt that it was fairly presented. The controls can be upsetting. The interface - specifically the chat portion - can only be described as horrible. The PvE is present but it's horribly balanced and unrewarding. Crafting and harvesting are incredibly time consuming and, unfortunately, incredibly boring as well. The economy is shaky (on EU1 at least, and it has been getting better) and there are some very, very counter-intuitive measures that have been added to the game as part of an ongoing effort to discourage macroing and encourage genuine play. Yes, macros are a problem, one that won't be going away any time soon.

    So why do I play it? For starters, the PvP combat is unique in it's simplicity, especially early on in the game. It comes down to aim, click, shoot, swing, with some spells thrown in the mix. Not only that, but fights aren't over in a matter of 15 seconds - you have to outplay your opponent(s) for much longer to win and even longer to finish them off.

    Really, though, the strength in DFO lies in the politics and the risk. I can't disagree that naked combat is stupid, but eventually it becomes a non-issue. If you're in a clan that plays a role in the world's politics, especially if you own a city, you won't be fighting naked unless you just respawned or you were caught by surprise. In reality, the risk is better represented by city loss than individual items. A city takes hundreds of man-hours to build up - most members of city holding clans would gladly sacrifice every last piece of armor in their bank to save their city and the time investment it represents.

    The political landscape is amazing, and that's me being honest. Huge alliances have formed, been destroyed from both within and without, and have seen their members scatter to all corners of the world. Small groups of well organized, talented players can make an impact without every claiming a city, and make gold hand over fist while doing so. I had never played a game in which mercenaries were genuinely successful until Darkfall. Darkfall feels like an ongoing, online version of an epic novel.

    I guess the summary would be something like...

    Darkfall has countless problems. The harvesting, crafting, building and pve (i.e. farming gold) are mind-numbing but unfortunately necessary. The alignment system is, for the most part, frustrating if not completely pointless. The siege mechanics have major problems, reagents for spells take too long to amass, the grind is far too long (most for magic, and partially because reagents are a pain in the ass), the lack of a skill cap means the eventual catchup of newer players...I could continue.

    But I'll be honest - I have never felt more devoted to an MMO. I played EQ for 4 years, sometimes upwards of 50 hours a week over the summer, yet it never gripped me like Darkfall has. At it's core, it's amazing. You feel much more attached to the world itself when your survival could very well depend entirely on who you're friends with.

  • Trikk #255 3 years ago

    Bremenacht, if success was judged by the amount of money generated then Britney Spears would be an accomplished artist.

  • UknowsI #256 3 years ago

    "at the most basal level, it's more engaging than any of the games where you stand there pressing 1 then 2 then 3 then 1 again until a sprite falls over. In my time in Darkfall, when going player-versus-environment, I fought far fewer enemy types than I would in any other major recent MMO... but I didn't care. The variety in the conflict based around situational elements - luring people out with arrow-fire, using the terrain to separate members from the pack, whatever - kept it as entertaining."

    I think this quote is enough to prove that the game is worth trying. Who cares if the crafting system is poor or it takes a while to get used to when combat is more engaging than any other MMORPG? A very good review in my view and if you can see beyond the score and actually read the article I think a lot of players who are tired of traditional MMORPG will realise that this is exactly the kind of game they are looking for.

  • vahrokh #257 3 years ago

    I bought the game and found it to be "old style". Maybe not the end of the universe but as EvE Online player I find this is the best EvE Online Medieval Release available. It even sports the warning: "don't leave town with anything you cannot afford to lose". While this game will suck for younger players accustomed to the lastest flashy accessories, the UO / EvE / DAOC crowd would find it pretty nice. Here is my own review Linkage . The basic thing is that nowadays we usually get nice graphics and sht gameplay, this game goes to the opposite (and the graphics are not so bad). It's years I waited for a game focused more on gameplay than on fluff, this one is rough but it's it.

  • JRTShadow #258 3 years ago

    Wow, being neither a Darkfall player nor a Eurogamer fan, I can unbiasedly say you all sound like idiots. I don't know which is worse, the Eurogamer fanboys sitting around on the first page, calling the game Darkfail and trying to incite the Darkfall fans, or the Darkfall fans, for coming over here taking the bait and making fools of themselves. The intelligent posts (from both sides) are few and far between.

    From what I read on the review, the game sounds like it got a fair rating, and is worth a try to a certain variety of people. Whether you believe the game deserves a 1/10 or 10/10 is inconsequential. Everyone will always have their own opinions of a game, and its their right.

    A good game reviewer will try to put their own personal feelings about a game aside, and judge the game solely on its own merits. How playable it is, if the music is good and appropriate, if the voices feel normal, if the game plays as it is intended to play. I believe Kieron Gillen did a good job reviewing this, and I look forward to a second review, like what was stated in this one, if he does indeed decide to continue playing.

  • ripsa #259 3 years ago

    dorkfail

    bunch of sad men playing a shit game

  • meowbark #260 3 years ago

    It takes about 2 days of playing to get used to the controls of the game. The interface is very different from other mmorpgs. Once you get a hang of the controls, this game quickly overshadows any other on the market. If you liked the FFA atmosphere from UO, you'll enjoy this game. The developers are still implimenting fixes on some problems but do listen to the players, unlike some other games.

    This game is the first game since UO to be able to handle 500+ player battles. If you're interested, please Youtube some Darkfall videos. This review does not do the game justice. Its not another WoW mmorpg and does not appeal to carebears. Due to this review eurogamers is blacklisted by most of the guilds on Darkfall. Check out what happens when someone named a guild: Eurogamers.

    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=In-dTqGOZ3g

  • Archenon #261 3 years ago

    @meowbark

    What you linked in youtube was reaction to first Darkfall review in Eurogamer, not THIS review.This one was far more honest one and even if we don't agree on it's scoring or all of reviewers opinions about Darkfalls gameplay and controls it is still fair one. First one was just a patchetic excuse of a review and deserved all the flaming. But please don't mix it up with this review.

  • vahrokh #262 3 years ago

    "This one was far more honest one and even if we don't agree on it's scoring or all of reviewers opinions about Darkfalls gameplay and controls it is still fair one"

    I have just checked what each vote means. 4/10 is not this game. I would give 6/10, I played WAY too many 4/10 worth MMOs to put this one on the same range. Moreover the 4/10 games I played flopped and / or stayed crappy till the end, DFO is changing over time for the better, compatibly with the super-small producer workforce. DFO is "growing", I hope there'll be a 3rd review in some months, possibly by someone who "got into" the game philosophy, which is vastly different than the norm. I'd dare say that an experienced EvE Online player would be a serene judge for this niche game as the approach is basically the same.

  • Krive #263 3 years ago

    Yeah, the reviewer for this game is a nub.... he just wants to play another WoW thats easy to play and is forgiving. This game is for the hardcore, and obviously this guy wants to play a mmo that he can have epic gear to show for the number of hours he had put into the game.... imma play dota now

  • lewisky #264 3 years ago

    ehm :)
    this is darkfall

    http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ffmri2li...

  • vahrokh #265 3 years ago

    And this too:

    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5wLuLvhlZU&feature=rel ated
    ]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=s5wLuLvhl...[/link]

    The game indeed started with many an issue but now is getting better.

    If someone played Warhammer Online (I had :S) and felt scammed by the results, check the above clip out. It's not even recent to show the latest stuff and is already making WH look for what it is.

  • Puntos #266 3 years ago

    no wai, eurogamer trying to cover their arses!

    and lol @ 'I still haven't read it. Seemed beside the point.'

    yes because knowing how credible the website you work for is 'beside the point'.

    You DON'T read the review yet you still take time to judge Aventurine's actions?

    this website is a joke and now everyone but blind fanboys and wow-fanboys (aka darkfall haters) know it...


    either way, i have never played darkfall, nor am i a fan and nor will I probably ever play it... but unlike all the trolls on here i have a at least half a brain and most people that have heard of this eurogamers actions know how uncredible this site is now.

  • optycal #267 3 years ago

    Thank you for this review. I have been waiting for this game for a long time, and now that it is out in America I was ready to buy it. I'm very glad I didn't. This review was not only informative, but freaking HILARIOUS. I've never read Eurogamer before, but thanks to the masturbation comment, I'm hooked. Thanks for being so full of awesome.

    Optycal from the US

  • levitate #268 3 years ago

    It's a game which believes suffering is good for you, in all its forms.

    I found this comment hiliarious. I rather go to church every Sunday than play this game.

  • levitate #269 3 years ago

    @Puntos:

    but unlike all the trolls on here i have a at least half a brain

    Dude, you better have your head checked again then. The doctor obviously lied to you the last time.

  • Krive #270 3 years ago

    yeah darkfall is good, just not for noobs

  • Atomisten #271 2 years ago

    lol thats funny, but seriously, you cant be serious, arguing with trashburner//i seem to have a SERIOUS lack of language knowledge in terms of word repeating.. but aside that://
    trashburner must be a fake who is just having fun writing nonsense-halfsense stuff, or SERIOUSly retarded, either way, arguing with him is pointless.
    but examining through his usage of english, and basic ideas of his, he must have brains. but even though he says so many contradictions that its above being funny, so i think he is just faking to be a troll idiot who is bored or has multiple personalities lol.

    but aside from that, i think darkfall will be a very good game after a year of hardpatching, now seems unpolished /from this review and some youtube videos at least/
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/09 @ 15:37

  • DFLudo #272 2 years ago

    This review changed my entire view of Eurogamer, the first darkfall review was the first thing I have ever read on EG and I despised it. Now I have to admit this made me subscribe to EG's mailing-list.

    On the other hand I notice how the first comments on this article is obviousley from standard EG readers, and I just have to laugh at the irony. On one hand the darkfall fanbase is being bashed for being fanboys, while at the same time the comments seems like they are clinging onto eg's balls as tight as a baby mistaking it for it's mothers tits, no offense.

    So thanks for this, I don't care much about the score, it was an entertaining and well reasoned read, thank you.

  • keyzor #273 2 years ago

    Darkfall Online is a great game. I could not believe my eyes when I read the interview. If you like harcore pvp, Darkfall is for you.

    Just take a look at some real Darkfall gameplay videos and you can't deny what Darkfall has.
    Edited by 2 at 29/12/09 @ 20:45

  • Shikanu #274 2 years ago

    Hi, I am a player of Darkfall and have been for a while. I realise this post is a long time after this debate/review or whaever u want to call it. I have had to work through some of the bad with darkfall, but also enjoyed a lot of the good.

    First things first, this guy Ed must be sacked from reviewing an MMO at the least. It is clear that they are not 'him'. I think mainstream gaming is more his 'bag'. I obviously don't know the guy but he seems to be one of the guys who thinks gaming started with the playstation.

    Anyway, moving on from the s**t talk. The game itself. Not without its flaws and this other dude who reviewed it gave it a really good review. These kind of games always need a lot of work before they are perfect. WoW on release was not perfect by any means and this is the benchmark now for all MMORPG's.

    To sum this up as I am bored already, Darkfall is a good game with some strong and some weak points. Like a lot of games. But this is one of the VERY FEW games that gives you the feeling of UO days. That 'everything is on the line' feeling. People don't want to entertain it these days for a few reasons;

    1. They aren't willing to put hours into a game. (that is fair play - the game is NOT for mainstreamers)

    2. They die and lose their stuff. (always an issue..... need I say more)

    3. There is no instant gratification. (ie. you are given something for minimal effort)

    In conclusion, I just don't think the average gamer is what they used to be. They want instant action and to be rewarded for almost no effort. This game should not be reviewed by a mainstream community and that, in my opinion, is where the problem lies.

    And just before the flood of QQ (cry) posts come in - I will give darkfall a 6.5/10 - it is coming along... even if it is a bit slow.
    Edited by 1 at 29/04/10 @ 14:39

  • Ofuscado #275 2 years ago

    I'm not a current player of Darkfall, but I played during the 'gag-order' closed beta days. I had been faithfully awaiting the arrival of Darkfall for close to 3 years, not anywhere near the 5+ years some had been waiting, but long enough. It seems I'm still waiting on Darkfall, however, because I can't stop visiting the forums, reading the latest reviews and longing for that ideal pvp environment. Some day Aventurine will have the game's massive list of bugs and cumbersome game play issues whittled down to an acceptable level. When that day comes I will joyfully convince my friends to give WoW, EVE, Conan and Warhammer a break to try something truly epic. Alas... I'm still waiting.

  • Hardkorgamerz #276 1 year ago

    You are the worst reviewing website I've seen. Before checking out your review on DF I reviewed RE4 and RE5 and your attempt to destroy games seem to work well. Too many follow your feeble review which dosn't take into account the real investment needed to truly enjoy an experience. I only created an account so I could defend Darkfall

    Darkfall is 10/10. It isnt a game for shit players or people who think they can spam fireballs with an auto aim like WoW or warhammer. Its far beyond that. Putting it simple if you;'re good and it will take u 6months to a year to truly become skilled. And im talking about player skill, not your character skill. Even if you were a top marksman on Counter strike or Halo whatever, you will need more than that and only by playing for time that you willl gain that level.

    You have played Darkfall for lets say a month by being generous. You might think thats enough but it isnt and 90% of the current player base will tell you so. The fact is Darkfall is simply put: FREE FOR ALL PVP FULL LOOT SYSTEM WITH FRIENDLY FIRE. So yes where you aim does it. But theres ALOT of different spells with different effects, some push you high in the sky to get to a rock or mountain where your followers cannot chase onto unless they have the spell AND use it efficiently.

    There are times where you find yourself ambushed 3 against 1 and if you're good you sometimes come out victorious..as I said it isnt like WoW where if 3 lvl 80s focus your 1 lvl 80 then hes dead no matter what. In darkfall if you have the same char stats roughly and the same gear U STILL CAN WIN, if you;re good.

    Ive written enough, I just think its despicable you rate Darkfall 4/10. You are killing potential players on a small company which has done ALOT now, DF2010 owns now and to all people who dont like shit carebear games like WoW and like SKILL and like to LOOT what ur enemies drop ? Then go to the darkfall website and read the forums pvp section to watch great gameplay videos or go to Youtube and type darkfall.

    Once again FO with your shit reviews Eurogamer you suck balls

    Darkfall 10/10 from a player who wishes this game came out when i was younger.

  • Hardkorgamerz #277 1 year ago

    The company also offers a 7 to 14 days free trial so people can experience it themselves. But im warning you now 14 isnt enough, it only gives you a small grasp. You need to join a clan who will teach you stuff. A clan called NEW setup by the players of the servers accepts all new players and gives them basic gear and understanding of the game for new players.

  • indaface #278 1 year ago

    Well written review, but the 2/10 score describes better this game. It has some good ideas, but the implementation is horrible. I played this game and saw end-game content for long enough, to know that it's not worth the frustration and the feeling that you're doing a job. The reason i played was that some friends decided to try it, but it was so crap, that in the end we all quit.

    All those that think that the game is good, is either because they are paid from the company to say so, or because they are playing the game (god knows why).

    For your sake, stay the hell away from this game. It's graphics, sound and gameplay belong in the 90s. 2011 will be a great year for MMORPGs that differ from the rest: Guild Wars 2, TERA, Vindictus, Blade and Soul... Do your self a favour, and wait for one of those games to be released.

  • indaface #279 1 year ago

    Oh, and i wouldn't play this piece of crap again, even if they payed me. At least, it's better than Mortal Online.

  • Whitewalker #280 1 year ago

    It's amazing to see this topic still brewing after all this time, it says a lot for the game, that either you love it or hate it. And the reasons are obvious...it depends on what type of player you are.

    However, after all is said and done there is no denying it, Darkfall is alive and kicking...and it's also in the process of only getting better by the day. There will come a day when we'll look back and say - I told you so. That day has surely come for Eve, it will also come for Darkfall...I'm just glad there are indi companies who have the balls to create something unique and innovative instead of another wow-clone. The MMO community needs more companies like CCP & Aventurine, the stagnation has to stop...way to go gents.