Darkfall Online Comments by Ed Zitron

From the Darkfall Forums:

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"There are none of the intricacies of World of Warcraft or Warhammer Online"

EXACTLY DOUCHBAG

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Best defence of a game ever.

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I... I... don't know how to put into words my disbelief.

"Intricacies" is just another word for HUD elements, isn't it?

That's quite an amusing review. I'd like to share some thoughts about it.

First things first: I don't play darkfall. I like many ideas of that game (such as open world, player driven economy, skill system), but I'm not much of a pvp person, preferring cooperative gameplay.

However, in relation to what the review mentioned:
I chuckled when I heard about 'intricacies of wow or warhammer'. Excuse me, but it's amusing to call those games intricate, when at least in case of wow they can be played effectively by couple lines of code put together by computer science student (famous bots that blizzard/activision is trying to ban). It's not far from there to the situation where the game plays itself, and that is not what I would call 'intricate'. Tedious grind seems to catch the spirit of the game though, connected with 'loot lottery' that passes for game reward and game 'economy'. Which is why I left wow after about 4 months (yes, I got to max level, although it was before burning crusade was released), and now I play city of heroes instead.

While it's understandable and perfectly fine that people have different tastes, calling game bad because it's not npc loot based grinder in static world, with mechanics harking back to world famous korean grinders seems a bit exaggerated.

Another detail that comes out from reading between the lines in the review is game performance. There was not a single mention of that, nor the range of computers that can run this game. As far as I'm aware (from watching youtube vids showing recorded gameplay) darkfall can handle large amounts of players on the screen at once without taking framerate hits, and client seems to be quite stable also. Compare that to age of conan (getting high praise here), that amusingly had to scale down epic keep sieges that were so louded before its release due to technical problems. Or (again, back before burning crusade) significant lag every time you entered ironforge.

To summarize. While personal touch of reviewer is most certainly welcome, the core of review is describing all game aspects in clear and precise way. Sadly, in case of this review I feel that personal preferences of the reviewer got better of him, which resulted in unfavourable review simply because he does not enjoy this type of game, and not due to (which is my suspicion) actual game failings.

5-10 seconds to switch weapons? Excuse me? You can switch to another weapon by pressing a button, it's nearly instant much like most FPS games. Waiting up to a minute before you die? You can release yourself after about 10-15 seconds by pressing the jump button. Hit detection is random? No it's not. Your character's skill level has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you swing and hit your opponent, you hit him, period. You missed. Player skill is very important in Darkfall, you clearly lack it. Judging the distance at which you can hit someone is easy once you get to know the range of your weapon well. As for getting killed when trying to do your goblin quest.. welcome to Darkfall. Escaping from enemies once you have been attacked is nearly impossible. Fight, die, or check your surroundings and see them coming so you can flee before they are too close.

I advise you take this review down, because the amount of errors, your amateur journalism and the fact that you blame the game for your own lack of skill is completely ridiculous. It's true that there are grammatical errors in quest descriptions and the AI is downright retarded sometimes, but it's a PvP game and the PvP is great. If you're a PvE'er, look somewhere else because you won't have much fun in Darkfall. You barely even talked about PvP in this review.

I like that the game uses real-life behaviours. Just the other day I was trying to swat a fly. Couldn't hit it though due to it circle-strafing me.

I would hardly call running around each other in circles skillfull, i dont know why fans think this takes more skill than any other game.

5 accounts and counting. How many do you think will be made to defend this game in a rabid frenzy? Place your bets.

It's only just starting, soon we will have hundreds of em running about and posting everywhere

I wish I was hardcore.

Stapling my nads to a table sounds more fun than this game.

I predict about 7 accounts before someone issues an IP address ban :)

"I would hardly call running around each other in circles skillfull, i dont know why fans think this takes more skill than any other game."

Then explain to me how I can kill multiple players on my own, and how I can kill most players 1 on 1 without dipping below 50% health? And no, I do not have a significant stat advantage. It may look like mindless circling to you, but just circling gets you nowhere, you have to actually dodge swings.

@iokthemonkey

Sometimes I wish I was hardcore too. Sadly, I'm sworn trammelite (a reference to pve ultima online side), so I wrote darkfall off. Which is kind of sad, since it does incorporate quite of lot of stuff I enjoyed in ultima and star wars galaxies, and few things I detest in wow and similar games. Oh well.

Dodge swings via mindless circling you mean?

Also: What's the over/under on this game's servers still being up in 6 months?

He's got mad skillz, yo.

"Dodge swings via mindless circling you mean?"

No, dodge swings by baiting people and moving out of the way when they swing. They whiff (Because they aren't good at judging range just like the writer of this article.. hey, wait, did I kill you at some point?), I move in and hit them. Some players can't even land a single hit on me.

Then explain to me how I can kill multiple players on my own, and how I can kill most players 1 on 1 without dipping below 50% health?

Because you don't have a girlfriend?

there seem to be a lot of first time posters on this comments page. coincidentally, all of them are defending the game and slating the reviewer. odd.

No, dodge swings by baiting people and moving out of the way when they swing. They whiff (Because they aren't good at judging range just like the writer of this article.. hey, wait, did I kill you at some point?), I move in and hit them. Some players can't even land a single hit on me.

I have a feeling you're the only one playing, though...

Then explain to me how I can kill multiple players on my own, and how I can kill most players 1 on 1 without dipping below 50% health?

You're one of the devs?

I’ll leave out all the reviews opinions which I disagree with, but this is a list of quotes that are factually incorrect:

to 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.

Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.

how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.

The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible

lack of hit detection

Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork

your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)

EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior

no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie

It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial

horrible user interface, and broken combat system.

the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running

You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.

At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.

edit: added 2 more

rofl at the "hardcore!" neckbeards on there forum

@justsomeone

Do you put me into that category? :)

I don't mind if you do, although I think it's sad when companies that can pay get glowing reviews regardless of merit of their game (conan comes to mind), while indie game gets slaughtered.

HAHAHAHAHA
This made me launch SOO HARD, u got pwed so many times, lost everything u had, was pwed in others island and left, u made a review with lots of mistakes, people should go to darkfall forum to read how fun was this revier
SORRY, NEXT TIME TELL US YOU ARE REVIEW THE GAME AD WE WONT KILL YOU LOL

Glowing reviews of Conan? Iokthemonkey, you're needed!

Also, bravo to the above poster. Bravo indeed sir.

Well, Ztruk - in the spirit of helping us understand - could you elaborate as to where the review is wrong and WHY?

It's all well and good saying "these things are wrong" but without explaining WHAT'S wrong, your argument doesn't hold much water. Perhaps the review IS incorrect but I'd be interested to know WHY it's incorrect.

@DFawkes

Ready to serve, fawkes sir! But where am I needed? :)

Not commenting on the game BB2, but I were to comment on your personality, I'd say you're a very sad git ;]

You're so right silvervein, it's like that time they totally dissed Braid, World of Goo, Darwinia, Peggle and all those other really great indie games that got glowing reviews. Those damn corporate shills.

Glowing reviews of Conan? Iok, you're needed!

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Did you leave that message on a little card next to a bottle of champers? And do I get to run around doing kung fu in a stretchy catsuit whilst fighting off Peter Bowles' army of robotic tea trolleys?

@Silvervein

I'm sure he didn't mean you. The moment I saw your post and coherence present in it, I didn't even need to check how many posts you've made to know you're not part of the infuriated Darkfail fans.

While I agree with you that slaughtering indie games is unjust, defending an indie game just because it's indie is fairly ridiculous, as well.

I see that this has descended into the mire now.

@silvervein

no sir - you've got 126 posts and counting, and clearly didn't make an account just to troll.

also, your english is rather good.

i *am* amused by the PVP guy tho. the most ardent defenders of MMOs, regardless of their quality, are always those that excel in their PVP aspects. it's most disagreeable to play a game well, esp against other players, and then be told the game you are playing is crap. being good at finding ways around a poorly constructed combat dynamic isn't the same as being *actually* good, IMHO.

i have no opinion of this game tho, having never played it. i *have* played, and enjoyed, Neocron before tho, so i'm willing to accept that there will always be a hardcore of people who love a bad game.

Is it me or did UO do this skills based pvp thing a whole lot better 10 years ago?

Swiss Tony, playing skill based MMOs is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman. You swing your sword erratically and occasionally make contact.

Wow, I really want to buy this game so badly now, these grammatical incorrect, demented fanposts seduced me to it!

Swiss Tony, playing skill based MMOs is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman. You swing your sword erratically and occasionally make contact.

Don't forget to sheath your weapon when in public. It's courteous you know.

Was going to say something about piercing and bludgeoning, but it's gone.

I player this for a bit when I was in on the beta. And by a bit I mean I wasted time trying to get it it downloaded and installed before seeing how shit the inventory system was, plus the atrocious graphics and decided to play no further. Whoever designed that system needs shooting.

Expanding on my last post by request:

o 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.

-You simply have to hit F

Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)

like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.

-You have a small crosshair on your screen

how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.

-The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)

The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible

-Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”

lack of hit detection

-If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on.

Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork

-I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.

your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.

-Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.

changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)

-If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)

EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior

- This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.


no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie

- The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.

It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial

- there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.

horrible user interface, and broken combat system.

- the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken

the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running

- There is a single server farm called EU1

You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.

- There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey

At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.

- after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”

Well, as I stated at the beginning, I don't play darkfall, so my opinions are based on what I saw on youtube and read on forums, therefore might not be representative of the quality of the game itself.

Still, as I also said, I quite like many darkfall aspects, since they do remind me of old games I played and liked a lot (ultima, swg).
My personal favourite is player runned economy in conjunction with player built towns (as long as you can put npc vendor selling things in your house). I enjoyed talking to people in mos eisley cantina to find out where are the best deals for those carbines I needed. Eh. Good times. Dumping in in favour of npc loot drop is a step backwards, at least for me.

And I certainly agree that defending game based on the size of the team that made it doesn't make much sense. In case of review of darkfall though I think that it was based more on reviewer game preferences than on the facts. Why? The videos of darkfall I saw didn't give me the impression of unplayable mess the review describes. I might be wrong of course.

I'd like to say it again though. All I know, both in terms of game facts and footage, suggests it's pure pvp game, first and foremost. Much more so than eve, that does have some safe places. For that reason, people that don't want to pvp should avoid it. I know that's the reason I don't play darkfall, even though, as I said, I support the ideas they put in there. (perhaps with exception of all out pvp: but it's just my personal preference, and not something I'd use to slag the game for).

WAHAHAHA!

I have never EVER in my life read a more idiotic and false article then this, bravo if this is your new ways of getting more visitors to the site, any publicity is good publicity right ? :)

Lucky you that im not your boss, cause id fire you in a hearthbeat. Probably hire someone to bury you aswell just to make sure your stupidity doesnt afflict the rest of us any longer.

No seriously if you wrote that you are a carebear who likes his epics polished and read lore books from blizzard every night before bed, also enjoys doing pve encounters with your friends once a week id say cool. Dont review a pvp game.

Can we have a NFSO or HKO review soon pretty pwease? with sugar on top? I bet they both get 8/10 because nobody made you cry when you logged in to the game :'(

Kind regards,
Freelapdance.

Hardcore.

Silvervein, I would say your critcism of a game like WoW that 'bots can play it' is missing the point - bots can grind for materials, yes.

Are they 'playing' WoW to its full extent? No.

Lol at this thread. I doubt Eurogamer really need the publicity about slating a relatively small MMO.

I just can't say all wrong things you said and done about and in game, your article is completely bad you don't know nothing about the game 80% of all you said is completely wrong, you are just a player that cant handle with a game full loot and fps, you like the game that you click with a mouse and press 1 2 3 and all the skill hit by it self, at DarkFall Online is not any noob like you that can be a good pvp/pve player because you need to AIM to hit with Meele and spell cast so if you are not good enough to aim and shoot right you i'll die.
You should let some else do this review because yore's are completely unfair with the game.
DarkFall is for sure the best MMORPG we have at the moment, at darkfall having just skill hight wont make sure that a guy that is playing for a week will not be able to kill you if he play well. Go play non full loot games man =D, wow is your beach.
Just to explain to all that read this pathetic article, he dont even have his weapon or even any spell at hotkeys, how does he supposed to defend him self from player/mob LOL, darkfall you are not safe anywhere live hardstyle.

Too hardcore for punctuation.

All I can do is to agree with ZtruK. The amount of misinformation in the article is scary.

Nice, thats what happens when a clueless newb without any knowledge of the genre tries to make a review. Personally I've played these games last 20 years, and playing DF now. DF would score around 8/10 currently in mine and most of my guildmates book. But what can you do, reviewers first mmorpg was probably WoW or DAoC or some other EQ-clone... ;(

Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.

-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)

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Can you still change direction whilst doing this? Again, not trolling, just wondering if this is the root of Mr Zitron's annoyance.

Is there a relationship between poor grammar and being a fan of Darkfall, or is it merely a coincidence? Tune in after the break.

@RedSparrows

I might be wrong there, but I think I heard of bot programs that can grind levels also. It's not a first hand knowledge though, so I won't insist it is true.
And of course, bots don't play any game to any degree. What they do show is that game is simplified enough to require only simple programs to play it. Some aspects of wow can't be done using bots, for example pvp, due to its random nature.

This game simplification (bordering on oversimplification) is what I don't like in games. While many people like it - wow subscriptions being what they are- I find it detracting from my enjoyment of the game. Keep in mind it's just my personal opinion.