Darkfall Online Comments by Ed Zitron

you are not safe anywhere live hardstyle.

My favourite bit from the fountain of rubbish that has sprung from the first 2 comment pages :)

reall gamers dont have time too propery gramatise.

First and Last time poster here.

I just wanted to put a few words in here to reduce the damage this review will do and try to avoid the incessant babbling both the proponents and opponents of the game have done in these comments.

First of all; The game is not for everyone.

Second of all; The game has serious flaws.

I got started MMO gaming playing UO in 98. Before Felucca/Trammel. I loved UO and I only realized why I loved UO when WoW came out.

There was risk, there was reward, and there was excitement. I played WoW for 4 years. I had a good time slaying dragons and compete in BGs and Arenas like everyone else, but it was never anything nearly as fun and exciting as UO.

This review is not very representative of the game and was poorly done without much thought into the consequences of the development process.

For instance; looting. Yes looting takes time. Yes it seems at first kind of silly to have to drag items back and forth; but THINK.
After I make a kill I have to put my weapon away and look down at the corpse and loot it, this leaves me vulnerable for attack... I risk vulnerability- I am rewarded with loot. See how that works?

The user interface is *different*. PERSONALLY I dont mind it so much anymore. It has a few lingering cursor-focus issues that need to be fixed but its okay by me. I know many of my friends still despise it. Well okay, but instead of just trashing it in a review the author should think about it. Since the game is a mouse-look game you *CANT* have a WoW/War/EQ UI. They had to create something innovative and they succeeded, some people adapt and some people dont.

Erroneous note: Character weapon skills do NOT affect probability to hit or swing arc in any way shape or fashion.

One small note, I have played every major MMO release since UO and DF has the best implementation of player-created cities since Shadowbane/UO. Sieges are (overwhelmingly) stable. Sure the hyperion sieges with 600 players are not so good but ive easily rendered 100+ player characters on screen at once on my 8600gt with no noticeable latency/graphical lag.

Lastly Ill just respond simply to what appears to be the bottom line of this summary:
"Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system."

loose incongruous mess of bad controls-> It is certainly hard to adapt to, however it all serves a purpose that you may not notice as a beginner.

user interface- Similar to above, This is the 'weakest' part of the game in my opinion but its functional and robust when you get the hang of it.

broken combat system- Aside from a lack of any sort of meaningful PvE aside from exploiting, PvP combat systems are marvelous.

In closing; If you are an old gamer yearning for the excitement UO gave you or a new gamer looking to try something "else", then look at darkfall past this review. If your primary interest is not PvP, Clan Warfare, Player created wars/rivalries then this game is not for you, and that is not derogatory. Different people have different interests.

Fairwell Eurogamers.

But Silvervein, the people from that Darkfall forum are capable of playing Darkfall and I refuse to believe they are more intelligent than a WoW bot.

you are not safe anywhere live hardstyle.

-----

It sounds like something from a Scooter song.

Motig's comment makes the game sound like a 2/10.

i fucking lold

@PearofAnguish

Now now. Lets not be nasty. Everyone was a teen at one point. That's not a reason to treat them as second category citizens, even if they do bring certain...elementary school charm...to the forums and discussions.

Personally I like this game. I'm not really an mmo "player" most mmos force you to grind gear. Yes this one technically makes you grind skills, but its much more available, and there were plenty of times that I turned the tables on a "higher level" ganker because I was able to fight much better then him. I'm only a week in and already have several skills built up to around 50, and lots of them above 25. Based on the review and its factual errors, this reviewer seems to be a fairly unskilled gamer, lacking any patience or semblance of an attention span. Yes darkfall grinding is no fun, but the so called "core" pvping with other players, trying to be organized and NOT needing uber gear to fight, makes it an enjoyable experience.

"It's the emperor's new clothes of 2009: such a marvellous game that only an idiot wouldn't realise the beauty of the gaping holes in its content, its wonky control system, and its seemingly decade-old engine."

That line I had by far the biggest problem with. Any journalist/writer/reviewers who are not an idiot, know that saying statements just like to one I am making are inappropriate when reporting on anything. I can run around yelling things like "only noobs think x y and z" or "only reviewers who suck at life write bad review for darkfall". Not only are neither of those statements necessarily correct, but they aren't even a logical argument. Its opinion + insult those who might disagree. Its sometimes called an argument of intimidation, and using them really just undermines any argument you might have, and even the credibility of this reviewer and review. I was also amused at a reviewer complaining about grammatical errors, yet has some in the review itself. Hell there's errors in the sentence I quoted.

All in all, this article appears to have been written by someone who could be identified as a wow carebear, who can't stand his gear being looted, or a game not being super easy to play. Obviously I know little of the experience this one player had when playing darkfall, but I would disagree on the main point of whether the game is fun/worth playing. Its incredibly exciting to realize at anytime you can lose everything on your person. You end up becoming paranoid of everyone, and very close to anyone you play with that proves to be trust worthy. All in all its not a perfect game, but I find it to be the most exciting mmo I've played, simply because of the risk involved, something I find too many games avoiding as of late.

As much as I hate the defense of mmos that is "its about the community", darkfall is a game that you won't get far without getting involved with some amount of the community. I'm not gonna argue whether that is good or bad, but its something that players/reviewers need to realize, before playing the game for a seemingly short amount of time. Also this reviewer seems quick to judge mechanisms they clearly don't understand, based on the factual problems with this article. Darkfall "isn't" for some gamers. Its brutal, and when you make mistakes it can be costly. Yet of all the mmos I've played, I've never before felt like I was useful from day 1. Arguments could be made about why that is, such as incorrect claims, about low population meaning warm bodies are better then nothing, but my experience in darkfall has proven differently.

This is a long comment, and perhaps has some mistakes and organization problems. Unlike the reviewer, I am not getting paid to have a well constructed or written article, so I think we can let it slide.

How exactly does one 'live hardstyle'?

All these comments by the neckbeards remind me of the conon fanboys who still defend that piss poor game.

I was also amused at a reviewer complaining about grammatical errors, yet has some in the review complaining about it. Hell there's errors in the sentence I quoted.

Tea just came out of my nose from reading that. I think you meant "wrote", not "quoted".

Darkfall Defence Force - ASSEMBLE to form NECKBEARD VOLTRON!

How exactly does one 'live hardstyle'?

----

HARDCORE, KNOW THE SCORE, TO THE FORE!

*Does stupid hoppy dance to chipmunked vocal*

ChthonicEcho: "5 accounts and counting. How many do you think will be made to defend this game in a rabid frenzy? Place your bets."

It wouldn't surprise me if these neckbeard types have macros setup to keep creating accounts and make new posts to defend their precious games, so they don't have to stop harvesting 34589898934589 twigs to reach level 438985 in the comfy confines of their mansweat-fogged caves.

Good call on that one seaside, but I'd refer you to the last line.

Darkfall Defence Force - ASSEMBLE to form NECKBEARD VOLTRON!

----

You fucker. People are looking at me wondering why I've turned red and look as if I'm choking on my coffee.

"Darkfall Defence Force - ASSEMBLE to form NECKBEARD VOLTRON! "

Excellent.

THIS REVIEWR IS LIER. HE IS NOT HARDCORE ENUFF FOR THIS GAME AND WROTE THIS OUT OF INSECERITY..2/10?? LOL PISS POOR CAN'T HACK IT. I PROLLY PK HIM 100 TIMES LAWL. ONLY THE TRU LEGEDNS AND WARRIORS OF THE MMO COMUNITY CAN SURVIVE IN DARKFALL. iT IS GREATEST GAME EVER CONCEIEVed. i waited 8 years for it. i don't liek the way he insults the game. LET IT BE KNOWN I AM WILLING TO DIE FOR DARKFALL!!!!!!

This is getting good...

Great review, sock it to 'em!

So your argument that the game isn't good, is that the players are hysterically defending it? So just because there's people who think farcry 2 was great somewhere means its actually a terrible game. Yes clearly we should rate it 2 out of 10 because someone actually likes it and I don't. If you really have a problem with people yelling that its good when you think its not, try making a rational argument, as opposed to the waste of time as making that account/post was.

Tea just came out of my nose from reading that. I think you meant "wrote", not "quoted".

Acually, quoted was correct, since he quoted the reviewer.

This begins to look like a fight of the century. Between mike tyson and fluffy bunny, pet of kindergarden.

Lets leave our personal preferences aside, and talk about actual game? Get links to some footage or something and talk about that...

I mean, seriously. If we start dividing people to good and bad according to their tastes (or primary language as I suppose might be the case here), where is it going to end?

Beware.

Does this mean we'll not be seeing much of the Darkfall street team that infiltrated the forum a while back?

"Can you still change direction whilst doing this? Again, not trolling, just wondering if this is the root of Mr Zitron's annoyance."

No you cannot but he stated "you have to stop still" making his statement false.

Really the only difference between DF and other MMO's in this respect is you need to do a quick right click. If you are autorunning in WoW and start moving stuff in your pack, you cannot turn at the same time unless you abandon whatever you are moving and rtclic-turn. The difference in DF is you rt-click, then you have freemouse like a FPS, the reviewer simply is not used to this type of UI which is more FPS based and he is comparing it to MMO based.

Just a sidenote, like anything related to DF, you have to sift through the BS to get any real information. Posts here from DF people will be trolling and stupid but there will be real info in here, just have to work hard to find it.

WTF! Why are all these people slating the review and defending a turd of a game? And then you check their profile all 1 or 2 posts. The nerds have mobilised. FEAR THE WRATH OF THE DARKFAIL COMMUNITY

I dont get the neckbeard thing... somebody explain it to me this instant.

This sounds so bad it actually has my interest piqued!

I'm tempted too, is there a free trial going around?

Wow, the playerbase actually seem to fail at life more than Darkfail does at being a game.

The reason were "defending" the game, is because most public opinion is based on articles like these. I would question how you came to the conclusion that the game is "turd". Is it from actual game experience? Unlikely. This article was poorly written, contains factual errors, and based on the general stance of the reviewer, I highly doubt he started the game unbiased. Everyone is biased, I'm biased because I like the game. The difference is that I'm willing to attempt to separate opinion from fact and make reasonable conclusions based on both. There are reasons for people to defend something against this, seeing as clearly most of those arguing against the game have not played it, which I know simply because of the low availability of the game.

AphoticCosmos you're just proving my point.Some of the gaming "community" won't play the game because a review like this, is put up, and they aren't intelligent enough to realize that this reviewer might be mistaken. There is reason for people to point out what is incorrect in the review, and also what is incorrect in many peoples stances on the game. Instead of making an argument about what someone dislikes in the game, all we hear is "that game is turd" from people who have never played it. Its like the kid who won't eat broccoli and has never tried it. Yes not everyone is going to like it, but its unreasonable for opinions like "broccoli is turd" to be accepted as fact and not questioned by those who like broccoli.

There are reasons for people to defend something against this, seeing as clearly most of those arguing against the game have not played it

Thankfully, now they never will.

The review is doing the gaming community a service.

"Can you still change direction whilst doing this? Again, not trolling, just wondering if this is the root of Mr Zitron's annoyance."

No you cannot but he stated "you have to stop still" making his statement false.

Ha, ha! It's as if I were reading Young Earth Creationist arguments. Trying to find some incoherence in the other side's reasoning as if that would mean that the WHOLE argument is completely wrong and further as if one fact being wrong automatically meant the other side is right.

Example:

Creationist dork: You haven't found a fossil linking one evolutionary stage of species so-and-so to the next, so clearly Evolution is wrong and automatically Creationism is right.

Darkfall dork: The reviewer stated that you have to stand still while interacting while actually you can run in straight lines, hence this whole article is rubbish and the interface design of Darkfall is automatically the best one ever invented. ;-)

http://www.afraidyet.net/
Go there and play the video in the first post for some good quality footage of massive scale PvP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4zhePTUkUQ
Footage of my guild taking a brigantine to attack an enemy city before being overun and having our boat boarded and seized by enemy players.

Despite having lost you can be damn sure that was more exciting than anything I have ever done in WoW.

I don't play MMOs much these days, but followed Darkfall on-and-off around 2002-2004ish. Have no desire to play it now that it's out, but at the same time I feel it deserves more than a 2/10 purely for bucking the trend and trying to create a game with long lost values.

The fact that the heavy influence of UO was not mentioned (comparing the skill system to Eve Online's which, lets be honest, is actually completely different on anything more than a superficial level) and a few other things lead me to believe the review was overly harsh, but at the same time accurate as far as a typical MMO gamer of today is concerned.

As far as the industry is concerned, it'd be nice if future games like DarkFall are not smashed into the ground, however. If this game wasn't in development for a ridiculously long, drawn-out and financially deprived period of time, perhaps it would have the polish that would allow reviewers with this perspective to analyse the deeper levels of the game's gameplay. As it happens, the interesting nature of DF's social mechanisms were almost completely ignored, with the exception of the fully player-driven economy being raised as a negative point.

good god this game looks utter shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgXH-lyDN...

Call me tinfoil hat wearing loon, but reading this thread makes me wonder if some of the people posting negative comments are not paid by, or are employed by, competitive mmo companies.

Writing negative post about the game, backed by evidence is one thing. Writing negative post where you are making fun of others due to taste differences, yet posing as criticism of the game? Suspicious.

It sounds like something from a Scooter song.

and

Darkfall Defence Force - ASSEMBLE to form NECKBEARD VOLTRON!

I seriously fucking lol'd. On the bus. A full bus.

There should be a rule that comments like that be at least 2 pages apart.

@Telre: I came to that conclusion upon seeing a video on Youtube of the game in action (until then i was quite interested in it and thinking about having a look). Without a doubt the worst animations I have ever seen in a game. I was actually embarassed for the developers that they spent that long on such an utter piece of crap

TBH, all these people who claim that Darkfall's PvP is the best thing since sliced bread have never played EVE.

Meh, their loss.

Great review! made me remember some of the classic reviews of pc gamer back in the day :) I wonder if this thread will hold the record for most account,s created just to participate>? *ponders and strokes neckneard*
Thank fuk i actually didnt get this game, 1st ropey MMO i have avoided since i can remember. Seems me and my crew are always onboard on day 1 for the absolute turds of this genre. At last i get to look on from the smug shore of " no chumps here" island and see some other poor bastard, vomit with rage at getting rumped.

"living hardstyle since 73" o/ \o/ o/

""Can you still change direction whilst doing this? Again, not trolling, just wondering if this is the root of Mr Zitron's annoyance."

No you cannot but he stated "you have to stop still" making his statement false.

Ha, ha! It's as if I were reading Young Earth Creationist arguments. Trying to find some incoherence in the other side's reasoning as if that would mean that the WHOLE argument is completely wrong and further as if one fact being wrong automatically meant the other side is right.

Example:

Creationist dork: You haven't found a fossil linking one evolutionary stage of species so-and-so to the next, so clearly Evolution is wrong and automatically Creationism is right.

Darkfall dork: The reviewer stated that you have to stand still while interacting while actually you can run in straight lines, hence this whole article is rubbish and the interface design of Darkfall is automatically the best one ever invented. ;-)"
------
Lim, did you read the rest of my comment? The ONLY difference between DF and WoW with respec to movement while interacting with the UI is wow equals (by default) holdrightclick-turn vs darkfall rightclick - turn. That's it! Show me in wow how you can turn while you are typeing without grabbign the mouse and taking focus away from the chat. It's a different UI than the reviewer is used to and he obviously didn't take the time to get used to it.

I am not "lawyering" here, what he stated is incorrect and if he took the time to get used to it he would realize it's no different than WoW in function, it's simply different because it's a first person FPS game with forced mouselook (by design!)

edit: I should also say, you are talking about one of the .. 12-15 factually false statements by the reviewer.

@spimmy
Thank you for the link. Finally someone who actually provides some facts.

Truth to tell though, I like the footage in the link you provided. (other than music, it made my ear bleed). Looks a bit like cross of mount and blade with mmo.

I just went and watch a youtube video of legend of zelda, looks like crap. So do all the super mario brothers games. You're being a graphics whore, and if that's what you want to do fine. Graphics can affect how a game is perceived, but I've never seen graphics make a bad game good or a good game bad. Perhaps a good game great, or a horrible game that much worse, but the actual game play is what the reviewer is arguing is a problem. I'm fine with reviewers taking points of a graphics score. 2/10 is unreasonable combined with the factual errors. Thankfully a game won't be hugely affect by you saying "graphics look like crap" but they will be affect by a reviewer saying the game is crap. I also would say that many of the youtube videos that are more common are beta/lower settings. Its not a graphically good game, no doubt about that, but it is fun, and in my opinion that counts for at least 90%.

Zelda and Super Mario Brothers look crap? Dude - they sport some SWEET 8-bit graphics! On the other hand Darkfall looks crap using this-gen technology and making it look as if it were the '90s - not to mention the horrible art style and laughable animations which have nothing to do with technology at all.
There is a difference between looking dated and looking crap - Zelda and Super Mario Bros belong to the former category, Darkfall to the latter.

I am getting a distinct feeling that the reviewer is missing the point entirely. I have not played Darkfall, but he seems to be holding the game up to the standard of WoW, while Darkfall clearly is a different beast. Also, I question the wisdom of allowing a first-time reviewer to dish out a 2/10, which is a disastrous mark. This is apparently Ed's third article for Eurogamer, and the first review. I guess you have to start somewhere, but... hm... I just dont like the way this has been handled.

Anyway... perhaps a 2 is better than a 6 or some other mediocre mark. It clearly makrs the game as way off the beaten track. SOme players seems to enjoy it a whole lot, so I dont understand how it could really be all that bad... I will check this game out for myself when the bugs are ironed out, and I hope they'll do a proper re-review ot the game in 6 months or so, as they usually do. Preferably by a more experienced and thorough rewiever the next time, like Oli.

It's pretty amazing/ridiculous how rapid the fan-base is for this game, especially since it's so shitty.

I'm getting the distinct feeling that this comments thread has been invaded by upset fanboys.

"Zelda and Super Mario Brothers look crap? Dude - they sport some SWEET 8-bit graphics! On the other hand Darkfall looks crap using this-gen technology and making it look as if it were the '90s - not to mention the horrible art style and laughable animations which have nothing to do with technology at all.
There is a difference between looking dated and looking crap - Zelda and Super Mario Bros belong to the former category, Darkfall to the latter."
---

DF graphics are sort of comicbooky. It's not bad at all. The world art is competitive with any other game out there. The animations are soso, but the game is suppose to get a FPS, TES-Oblivion has horrid animations but it was still a fun game, you should be in FPV to play it.

You also have the fact there are constatly fights with many hundreds of people in one place on the server, at tiems even thousands. The game was designed for this, and even larger battles are hoped for. Having "better" graphics would only hurt this feature that many of us playing enjoy.