Crysis designer speaks News

I'd love to see what is representative of the game right now...

I'm sure it will happen if the tools are good enough, but this comment reeks of laziness. Of course it has probably been taken out of context, but it sounds lazy to me. Hell, they could always add it later with a patch if it's just a time issue.

And Why not translate the german interview and put here ? what is up with that ?

Unbelievable.

"I'm sure it will happen if the tools are good enough, but this comment reeks of laziness."

Please don't accuse game developers of lazyness - unless you actually have proof. Its insulting.

By the Power Of German!
I have The Poweeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr!

@lambtron - Did you not read what I said? I never accused them of laziness, just said that it sounds lazy. As it does.

eh? :)

@JediMasterMalik

"Hell, they could always add it later with a patch if it's just a time issue."

Spoken like a true armchair expert.

What on earth does "just a time issue" actually mean? You talk as if its trivial. Death for many people is "just a time issue", but that doesn't make it easy to avoid.

These things are always time issues, specifically time AND money issues (though money pays for time, so in the end its all the same). Did it not occur to you that "later" they will be working on something else?

Who would pay for this patch that can be so easily produced? Or should they just work for free?

The reason it sounds lazy to you, is because you have an insufficient understanding of how games are made. I hope that has cleared things up for you.

Well, obviously I am speaking from what I know, which is admittedly very little. :)

Although, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for online co-op or multiplayer if it was official.

@JediMasterMalik

I'm not accusing you of being a numbnuts, I'm just saying you sound like a numbnuts. And you are.

/joins lynch mob
/fetches flaming torches/pitchforks

lol

Just my perspective is all.

Kangarootoo wouldn't the modding community spend time adding online co-op zero gravity modes etc.

and for free.

But that's only possible because:

a) Someone else already made the game.
b) Someone else already made the tools.
c) They have spare time and aren't sick of the sight of the game or anything to do with it.

>"By the Power Of German!
I have The Poweeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr! "

Shouldn't thatg be...
"By ze pawah of Gherman!
I have ze pawaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!"

Crysis is a huge, complex game. How could you accuse them of laziness just because they don't add every little feature you want? They are likely working around the clock as it it. Regular folk don't appreciate how much time and effort goes in to making a game. I remember when people complained about FFXII, every time it got delayed, fans came out with comments about how they were being too lazy to finish it on time, all when Yasumi Matsuno nearly fucking died because he was overworked and stressed with the game. People just don't get it.

Developers do a fine job, I wish people would lay off them every time neurotic fans don't have their every wish a whim catered for.

@lambtron - So since they have alreaddy made the game, have made the tools, the only thing left as a reason for them not including this is because they are sick of the game?

So basically, they can't be arsed?

Kanga's explanation was better, but then Steroyd has a point too. If the mod community can do it for free afterwards, where as the Crysis team may well get more sales by including this, it makes no sense to say it's the mod communitys "responsibility".

Also, it would be done properly in comparison to mod efforts.

@JediMasterMalik

Glad you took my comments well actually. I was a bit arsey with you, but then I have an allergy to accusations of lazy when it comes to feature sets.

:)

You will find I am rather difficult to anger. :D

@Steroyd

Yeah, but the modding community have their own motives for doing what they do. They treat it as a hobby and they do it for their own reasons and on their own terms.

Now for many devs making games as a hobby is how it started and something they still have an interest in doing, but its stretching things a little far when it becomes your job to have demands that you do it for free if you want to avoid accusations of being lazy.

I think really all this guy is saying is,

"Time is finite, we wanted to do the best job we could within the boundaries of the original brief rather than doa bad job on lots of things. If people really want co-op I'm sure someone will mod it, we simply haven't allocated resources for that ourselves as our efforts are focussed elsewhere."

Now devs don't like using words like resources when talking to the public for some reason. I wish they would, as it would make things clearer if they simply said "we had X amount od dosh and Y number of months, so we quite responsibly asked ourselves what is the best overall game experience we can create within those boundaries".


@JediMasterMalik

Its all shades of grey mate. If someone has been working on the same thing for ages, busting a gut to make it the best they can, can you blame them if they "can't be arsed" doing a whole bunch more work for no pay?

Gamers see games as fun and nothing else, which is fine. But devs see games as fun AND their job. No one wants to do their job for free, especially in the face of an apparent lack of sympathy from the public for all the hard work that they HAVE put in thus far.

Fair enough, I agree. It just doesn't make much sense to tell people about it so bluntly in an interview. Although not knowing his exact words I suppose it's simple conjecture.

@WaxBrazillian

What exactly is "not getting it right" in this particular case.

Example.
I read a letter in a PC magazine from some loony complaining that some particular game wasn't multiplayer. "I didn't network my house to play single player games" he ranted. What he utterley failed to realise was that the game in question was simply not the right game for him.

If you want co-op, find another game. If you want golf, find another game. I could go on.

You can hardly accuse a dev of " not getting it right" just because they didn't implement a feature they didn't plan on implementing, just because you want them to. And you accuse them of creating a sub par product on the basis of this? Nuts is what that is.

Of course they are being lazy, I mean Cyrsis is basically Far Cry with better textures, I've watched the videos I know what I'm talking about.

\runs and hides

I'm happy they're spending time on the AI. Assuming it's not all hyperbole, the single-player should be a pretty good challenge.

It really ruins a game when the AI either completely forgets that an intruder just came in and killed loads of people before hiding for five minutes (Hitman: Silent Assassin) or the AI catches one glimpse of your character and from that moment on all nearby enemies can see you no matter what you try (Oblivion - short of aforesaid running and hiding for five minutes, that is).

I always thought HL2 got the AI pretty right, but then I never really saw what happened if you ran away, as you always kill everyone.

hi,

i'm the guy who made the interview. bernd diemer said, that when they do something, they wanna make it right. so not just a normal coop, which can be easily done with the mod tools. so, they decided to move the coop backward.

"@lambtron
Please don't accuse game developers of lazyness - unless you actually have proof. Its insulting.

There's loads of Lazy game developers...
How many car manufacturers sell kit cars on the forecourt?
Why are game developers so aloof?
Why do they release so many sub par products expecting a fanbase to do the work?
Lazy isnt sitting round doing nothing... Lazy is not getting it right...
I'm in Crisis I agree with Malik - cue fall off chair...
PS Lambtron I don't care for your feelings..."

I couldn't give a flying fuck about yours either so I guess we're even...

Good place to focus... AI that is... Seeing as how the AI sucked in Far Cry...

/Braces for Far Cry fanboy attack....

Maybe Bethesda had the same idea with ES: Oblivion. I remember hearing about this cool mod that allowed you to play with another person as if they were a NPC. But probably not.... lazy *cough* bastards.

""Good here's your dummy back maybe you should suck up your boss!

I might be offended ... if that was actually English ;)

But wait! You don't speak English perfectly - that must mean you are lazy - after all as you said its not the trying that counts but the getting it right.

I hate lazy people ;)

Actually your English is very good - I'm just joking - ok?

hahaha. Seems like you can dish it out but can't take it ;).

p.s. I don't know Cantonese Spanish Mandarin - or did you mean to put commas in between those?

/off to watch Countdown.

You made me laugh today Wax for that I salute you!

"Well, obviously I am speaking from what I know, which is admittedly very little. :)

Although, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for online co-op or multiplayer if it was official. "

Well for once JMM I'm on your side here :)

There seems to be people here who are 'involved' in the gaming industry that just can't stand anyone giving them stick.

The simple fact is that you can stick a random gathering of 10 dev's in a room and at least 3 of them will be shit/lazy/whatever. It's the same the world over so stop bitching about it. You may be the hardest working, best coder blah blah blah but it doesn't mean that everyone in your job is as good as you or even deserve to have the job ...

WaxBrazillian, let's see if you can debate this without turning to insults. However, it seems you obviously have no experience in developing games within the industry. So sitting here and saying that it's because they're lazy is an argument that has no legs to stand on. The fact that it takes years and MONEY to develop games within a set DEADLINE means that some features can't be implemented. It even takes time to create SDKs for the modding community in the first place.

Obviously they don't have time for patches because ...drumroll... of the upcoming console version (including the Wii version which basicly is Far Cry... again)!

WHEE!!!!

I think most potential players of Crysis (myself included) would have no problem with waiting for these features to be implemented...unfortunately I doubt the publisher sees it the same way:-(

@WaxBrazillian
"Ok let's see if you read my posts properly that would be a start..."
ok, let's see what we have here.
1)'Please comment here I have no time." - implying laziness in mockery of the article. hmm, so far developers lazy = 1 publishers fault = 0.

"The above seems aloof talk from a possible games developer who in turn with a twisted view of his own intelligence likes to belittle at the thought of a non existant insult/slur"

You get offended quite quickly. If I make a comment about the pipes a plumber is fixing, and he tells me that I'm not a plumber so I don't understand, I'm not going to take it in offense. Likewise, it wasn't meant as an insult, but an obvious fact. Do you work the industry? No. How do I know? because you wouldn't make the comments you did, if you knew how it really was.


"As for the rest of your comment well you don't say...

It's not the developers that are problem in the games industry read my posts"

Erm, k. From your first post I quoted, we establish you taking a pop at the developers. Also, from your other post:

"There's loads of Lazy game developers...
How many car manufacturers sell kit cars on the forecourt?
Why are game developers so aloof?
Why do they release so many sub par products expecting a fanbase to do the work?
Lazy isnt sitting round doing nothing... Lazy is not getting it right... "

Not one mention of a publisher.... therefore Developers lazy = 2, publishers = 0

Finally, you mention :
"The problem isn't developers it's publishers I blame costs/time/media hype"

I agree with you there. (lazy devs 2, publishers 1).

I think you need to actually decide what your argument is. You seem to blaming everyone.

@WaxBrazillian
You've clearly misread my whole post. I'm not saying I'm perfect and I'm not saying developers are machines who are immortal and 100% efficient. All I'm saying is that the reason they didn't include coop was because of the pressure put on them by the publishers. They did their bit. If they were being paid to create a coop mod, then they probably would because at the end of the day, it's their job to. But they have other projects to work on as well.

"So you code games big deal! I'm not blaming anyone where's the fault? "
What's that got to do with anything? Your not blaming anyong? err....first developers, then publishers. oh wait, no, magic fairies create games so there's no one to blame. I think you need to reread your posts and then use your brain before starting to type.

"Oh mediocre games... so these are accidents?"

err, no, but once again there are deadlines. I think you're the one living in lala land thinking that a programmer gets a significant input into the actual game design and that money is unlimited so developers can spend as much time as they want on games. Thank god your not in charge, otherwise the only game we would be playing is pong whilst others are still in development to make sure every feature possible is implemented.

"You have this bizarre notion that because you have coded a game maybe you have conquered all and we are all mortals you need to get over yourself"

Don't know where you got that from. But when your finished with that imaginary post, come back to mine.

Oh yeah, and I noticed you didn't actually reply to any of my comments about your post. You just went on some random speech about how I think I'm above everyone else.

@WaxBrazillian

""Getting It Right" is realising the ambitions of the project nothing to do with feature sets"

I absolutely, completely and utterly agree with you (except for the "nothing to do with feature sets", which just seems like random words to me).

In this case in point, including coop was not one of the ambitions of the project (it might have been an ambition you invented for the project in your own head, but I think you will find that is not the same thing), so its quite appropriate that they didn't include it. So we agree, right? RIGHT?

Of course not. With anyone else I would assume we agreed and leave it at that, but reading the rest of your posts I can see that you are quite clearly nuts and also way to angry for your own good, so not doubt you will return with some other nugget of wisdom (or a random collection of unrelated words, you choose, it almost certainly makes no practical difference to anyone else on here).

I don't know why everyone is so excited about Crysis, Far Cry was utter shite.

And this announcement is a case of either

a) Crytek saying they can't be arsed to release a proper game, so getting modders to do everything for them. 'Here's the tools -- you code the AI!!!!1111'

or

b) EA want it out the door. Stat.

At times I thought Farcry was great fun. At other times it was frustrating, old school, "cheating computer bastard" frustration.

Each to their own though :)

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: Non-industry sourced comment. Contains rank ignorance of game development working environment, and opinion of buying public.

This isn't necessarily devs being lazy so much as devs not doing something that ought to have been done all along and wasn't; OK, they want to focus on SP, awesome gratz and so on, don't really like competitive MP. But if you already have your game engine and assets for SP, and you have your netcode and so-on for MP, I don't see how it's a huge stretch, financially or temporally, to make the SP section work in co-op. Anyway, if co-op is so easy to add using the dev tools...why didn't someone do it?

Co-op was always my number one most wanted feature in Far Cry, the way the game was designed it was as if they took it out at the last minute. I spent literally days trying to get the co-op mod to work but whatever we did, the co-op mod that finally, finally came out was broken one way or another. Modding for far Cry was never huge so it's telling about what the players really wanted that one of the few that actually made a release, albeit a very dodgy one, was a co-op mod. Certainly what I know of Crysis suggests that this is once again eminently suitable for co-op.

"I'm sure it will happen if the tools are good enough, but this comment reeks of laziness"

Not really. They probably WANTED to put it in, but are restricted by budgets/marketing/etc.

If the publisher tells you that you cant have any more money/time to put in a feature like this. Or indeed if the project has gone over schedule so the publisher has demanded you remove features (such as this).

it's hardly down to laziness.

I beleive we've discussed that 30 odd comments a go. :)

@YourMessageHere

"But if you already have your game engine and assets for SP, and you have your netcode and so-on for MP, I don't see how it's a huge stretch, financially or temporally, to make the SP section work in co-op."

It is seriously not that straight forward. What also needs to be kept in mind is that its not simply a matter of thinking up the code, its also a matter of writing the code, testing the code, having QA test the code, fixing the bugs, delaying mastering the title because of all of the above (which as anyone who works in the biz will tell you a HUGE deal, even if you are first party on a console).

I know to the average gamer (I don't mean that in a patronising way) it seems like co-op is only s short step from sp mode. The key thing is not to confuse how something appears as a player with how it is actually structured under the hood.

Crytek aren't stupid. They know people want co-op, otherwise they wouldn't have mentioned it and we wouldn't be having this dicussion. So either...

1. They suck and the collective we are the experts.

2. They know exactly what they are on about, the collective we don't, and its really not as straight forward as it might first appear to us.


@WaxBrazillian

"so the developer instead of whining like a dog should just say we are shit we didn't make it"

Whining like a dog? Lol, did we even read the same article?

The point that you seem to continuously miss (because as has been pointed out by other posters, you don't really read and absorb, you just live in your own head and skip quickly past the witterings of inexperienced idiots like me) is that they didn't SAY they would do co-op. YOU said they should.

That is really quite a key point. They delivered on their brief (and anyone who knows will tell you that is the mark of a good dev). Their apparent failing is that they didn't deliver on the brief created in the mind of bonkers loony kid, but then frankly I'm starting to wonder who could?

@YourMessageHere

BTW, for the record I f*cking love co-op modes. LOVE EM!

So I am absolutely with you on how cool it would have been. I just realise that as much as I like co-op, its not trivial to add it after the fact and that working on delivering a polished focussed title is better than producing a rickety jack of all trades.

@smelly

+1 btw. Missed that in all the comotion :)

@WaxBrazillian

I think it's clear that your the one getting angry and stressed. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your argument and you can't take it and assume I'm trying to elevate myself about you. We're all human and your better than stuff than me, and vice versa, so I don't know why your getting huffed about something you have no experience in. you've now started to agree with me on the point that it's not just the developers fault, and now your trying to move on to some random slur that I (and all games programmers) are egotistical and better than you.

And like you say, Let everyone else decide who actually makes more sense between me and you.

@WaxBrazillian

Seems you just have a poor opinion of Crytek and Farcry. Of course you are welcome to that opinion. What that has to do with them not choosing to include coop in their game I'm not really sure...

As for,
"I'm just sick of purchasing games that are mediocre that is all... "

Don't buy them anymore, problem solved. Sounds like you could do with a breqak from the stress.