Criterion talks Burnout HDD issue

By Robert Purchese Published 5 February, 2008

It's all in "best interests" of community.

Criterion and Microsoft decided it was in your best interests to make a hard drive an essential requirement for full Burnout Paradise online play.

The developer attempted to explain its decision in an open letter on its website, saying the dream of an expandable world through regular downloadable content was not possible if it supported "the lowest common storage denominator", or 64mb unit.

"We opened a dialogue with Microsoft to attempt to discover a possible solution and all possible technical options were investigated to retain the seamless freedom of Burnout without requiring the HDD," said "The Burnout Team".

"Unfortunately a solution was not available and we decided together that it would be in the best interests of the Burnout community if we require the HDD for full online play."

Luckily Xbox 360 Core users still get to use the Road Rule mode online, where you can see who has the best showtime score as well as scroll through leaderboards.

Burnout Paradise sits atop the UK All Formats chart for the second week running today, with PS3 sales improving on last week to take 49 per cent of the pie.

Every PS3 comes with a hard drive as standard.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (54) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #1 4 years ago

    Every PS3 comes with a hard drive as standard.

    Whistle. I had to do it. Sorry for stating facts. Will put self in stocks.

  • vane101 #2 4 years ago

    Does anyone know how many Core users there are out there? It must be limiting.

  • Grogmonkey #3 4 years ago

    "Every PS3 comes with a hard drive as standard."

    Best. Line. Ever (not written by Ellie).

    Watching stupid format discussions really helps the day fly by.

  • Darren #4 4 years ago

    I always thought an HDD was essential for online gaming given how many patches these kinds of games get; without the patches you cannot play online, simple as. I'm sure that this news will only shock a mere handful of online gamers as I'd bet on most people who are playing 360 games online already have an HDD anyway (it's pretty mandatory for the downloadable content really). And it obviously doesn't affect PS3 owners.

  • bitesize #5 4 years ago


    "Watching stupid format discussions really helps the day fly by. "

    haha, yeah - i've been lurking on this site for ages, always provides a laugh or two in the more inflammatory comments threads... anyway, is there anyone in the world who would want to take burnout online that doesn't have a hard drive in their 360?

  • ScarOnTheSky #6 4 years ago

    What's the point in stating that every PS 3 has a HDD besides trying to cater to the Sony fanboys?

  • septimus #7 4 years ago

    Could never understand why the HDD wasn't part of every bundle. The core system has always been pointless.

  • alimokrane #8 4 years ago

    Said it before, gonna say ti again and will always say it. MS are idiots for not including the hard drive as standard.

  • wayn3h #9 4 years ago

    Not requiring the 360 to have a hdd was the biggest mistake MS have made this gen imo. Forcing it in every system means that devs would have taken more advantage of it.

  • Nova5lag #10 4 years ago

    I have a core system... Its been fine for me but now I have many more games I find the MU a little limiting. I dont use Live really at all so the only reason Im now considering a HDD is because I want to start a few more games and lack the storage space on the MU... but Im not gonna spend the stupid £70 MS still want for the 20Gb HDD!? Thats mental. So I guess I will finish Oblivion and HL2 Ep 1+2 then clear the MU and start something else.
    Edited by 1 at 05/02/08 @ 11:21

  • symbiote #11 4 years ago

    "Every PS3 comes with a hard drive*,HD movie playback, blutooth, free online, web-browsing, rechargable batteries and HDMI* as standard"

    Fixed.

  • Darren #12 4 years ago

    That's true, Symbiote, but Sony stupidly don't bother to include *any* HD lead, you forgot to mention that. ;)

  • t8yman #13 4 years ago

    lack of standard HDD is holding the 360 back IMHO, I'm no expert, but I'm sure hard drive utilisation would spee up load times etc.

  • dazzaman #14 4 years ago

    @symbiote

    and if you are lucky enough to live in Europe you can download everything later than the RoW.

    Just my personal gripe with Sony there.

    I do feel for the core owners though, the HDD add on looks so expensive. Haven't had a 360 for a while now so I'm out of touch with the packs, core aside is there a pack available without the HDD now or are Microsoft trying to rectify this by ensuring any pack now includes a hard drive. If not they are still guilty of a serious lack of foresight there.


  • Psiloc #15 4 years ago

    I was going to say something defending Bertie's PS3 comment, but I've realised it's not as fun making him suffer for it. Let's make the bastard pay.

  • Darren #16 4 years ago

    @Nova5lag - Dunno what size your memory unit is but you can get a 512 MB one for around £25-£30. Expensive though compared to the 20 GB HDD, which itself is ridiculously overpriced. I mean you can buy a 500 GB external or a 250 GB internal HDD to use with the PS3 for £80 or less and Microsoft are asking £130 for their 120 GB HDD one! Greedy bastards! LOL

  • Steroyd #17 4 years ago

    Haha what person in the right would hook their Xbox 360 online and not have a HDD.

  • Nova5lag #18 4 years ago

    @Darren...

    Yeah I know there is a bigger MU now but I figured I would try and get a cheep HDD from somewhere. Ebay or other such evil.

    The £££ MS want for the HDD is crazy it wouldnt matter so much if you could use exturnal HDDs via the USB for Saves etc...

  • Gurgeh #19 4 years ago

    What I want to know is does DMC4 take as long to install on the 360 hard disk as it does on the PS3?

  • JediMasterMalik #20 4 years ago

    There's no 360 install option.

  • Steroyd #21 4 years ago

    DMC4 doesn't install on the Xbox 360 because of no standard hard drive...

  • Freek #22 4 years ago

    Core unit must go, it's holding the entire platform back.

  • Fodder #23 4 years ago

    "It will only be a matter of time before more games require the HDD, for off line too."

    Football Manager needed one too, IIRC. And Final Fantasy.

  • Nick007 #24 4 years ago

    Holding it back in what way, 99% of 360 multi platform games are better than the PS3 version, which HAS A FUCKING HARD DRIVE, yet the 360 versions are better and don't use A FUCKING HARD DRIVE,

    360 is fine as it is, has the best games this gen, so shut the fuck up.

  • Darren #25 4 years ago

    @headbog - Except two years you NEEDED the HDD to play games like Final Fantasy XI and Football Manager 2006 so this really isn't anything new. 99.9% of Xbox 360 games do NOT require a HDD so it's hardly a big deal. I'm sure most people who play online already own an HDD for the numerous patches and downloadable content as it's just not practical to use memory units IMO.

  • TheMoonRat #26 4 years ago

    Yes, because swearing makes your point more valid

  • Nick007 #27 4 years ago

    Excuse all the bad language, I'm not well today and have just crawled out of bed. I'm not swearing at anyone in particular, just the world in general.

    I'm really a nice person.

  • MBar #28 4 years ago

    It's only Feburary and yet Eurogamer has forgotten it's own New Year's Resolutions multiple times.

    The rabid arseholes around here don't need your help to start format wars, Rob.

  • Gaol #29 4 years ago

    "Every PS3 comes with a hard drive as standard."

    Perfectly timed and written to be as flameworthy as possible. I don't know whether it should be criticized or admired.

  • Steroyd #30 4 years ago

    Nick007 yet one of the multiplatform games (probably the first one) that uses the PS3 as the lead platform this happens.

  • Yaz #31 4 years ago

    t8yman wrote: "lack of standard HDD is holding the 360 back IMHO, I'm no expert, but I'm sure hard drive utilisation would spee up load times etc."

    Holding it back? Not at all. As Darren correctly states, almost anyone online with the 360 would have a HDD anyway.

    Yes the HDD can be used to speed up load times, but that's usually at the expense of HDD space (typically 5GB per game as seen on the PS3), which is why MS took the choice of putting the fastest DVD drives available into the 360 instead. It's more of an issue on the PS3 because the Blu-ray drives are slower than the 360's DVD drives, meaning the HDD is more important on the PS3 for improving load times.

  • DAN.E.B #32 4 years ago

    @ Nova5lag
    Ive got an unused 360 HDD you can have for 40 pounds!

  • captainrentboy #33 4 years ago

    "Every PS3 comes with a hard drive, HD movie playback, blutooth, free online, web-browsing (no substitute for PC net surfing mind), rechargable batteries for your rumble free controller, an HDMI port with a fantastic SD composite cable for all of your high-def needs, and all the inferior, but still higher priced, third party titles you could ever want, ohh and a £100 higher price tag as standard"

    *Double fixed*
    Edited by 1 at 05/02/08 @ 13:09

  • Darren #34 4 years ago

    LOL

  • Kenshin001 #35 4 years ago

    Imagine being a Core owner who also bought the HD-DVD add on!

  • MrFlump #36 4 years ago

    Anyone serious about online gaming on the 360 and getting updates would by this stage have a hard drive (even if it was purchased additionally to a core system) or came with the Premium or Elite.

    I can't imagine that anyone with a core system would be up in arms about this. Most who are interested in this facet of the game would be the kind of people who would have a hard drive anyway.

    I must admit that the PS3 comment does seem a bit misplaced in an article involving the 360 and Criterion.

  • DAN.E.B #37 4 years ago

    He cant help it!

  • Yaz #38 4 years ago

    headbog wrote: "The PS3 may have a slower drive, but it has a constant transfer rate, whereas the 360 is only faster when data is on the outside edge of the disk. Furthermore, installing to HDD makes the Ps3 have the edge either way."

    Faster only on the outside edge? That's completely wrong Headbog!

    The 360's drive is faster after the first 1 GB or so from the inner tracks. This is because BR on the PS3 is a constant 9MB/s, whereas on the inner most track of 12x DVD, it's around 8 MB/s, moving up to 16.62 MB/s on the outermost track!!! Which is why since DVDs were first used last gen for games, devs place the data they want to be read fastest on the outermost part of the disk. The innermost part of the disk can be (and often is) used for data where speed is not critical, such as audio/video for cinematic cutscenes.

    Hence numerous devs have mentioned the fact that Blu-ray is slower for games than the 360's DVD drive, and hence some use the HDD as a means to improve the situation.

    And yes, the PS3 will have the loading edge for games where 5GB or so is installed onto the HDD, no-one has disputed that.

  • Yaz #39 4 years ago

    headbog also wrote: ""A hard drive less 360 is holding back the Ps3 too you know. they have to develop a game for the lowest common denominator."

    That's complete nonsense headbog (and I think you know it, if you're being honest ;)). So how exactly is the 360 holding the PS3 back in this respect? As DMC4 shows, they ARE using the HDD in the PS3 version in a way that they are not doing so in the 360 version, therefore it's the 360 being 'held back' as you call it by a lack of a HDD in every unit, not the PS3.

    Between the PS3 and 360, there are numerous 'lowest common denominators' spread between them. Some of these *may* hold the other console back, but many will not and can be utilised within the game for that particular console.
    Edited by 1 at 05/02/08 @ 14:38

  • DAN.E.B #40 4 years ago

    aparently Devil May Cry4 on the PS3 takes 20 mins to install and is only about 2 seconds a level faster to load than the 360
    And it uses 5 gig of the PS3,s HDD!
    how long is the PS3 40 gig HDD going to last?

  • Yaz #41 4 years ago

    "aparently Devil May Cry4 on the PS3 takes 20 mins to install and is only about 2 seconds a level faster to load than the 360"

    Personally, I'm waiting for confirmation of this (only got the info from CVG so far). Hopefully, a site like GameTrailers will have a video comparing the load times of the PS3 and 360 versions side-by-side for various points in the game.

    "And it uses 5 gig of the PS3,s HDD!
    how long is the PS3 40 gig HDD going to last?"

    Pros and cons. 5GB for faster loading is worth it for many gamers, even though it takes time to install (once) and uses up space on the HDD.

    I think overall, very few PS3 gamers would complain about it, but many would complain about load times being much longer than the 360 version if the HDD wasn't being used in this way. :|

  • dryden555 #42 4 years ago

    still waiting for actual GAMES that I want on a PS3 before I buy a PS3

  • monkie_king #43 4 years ago

    this would be a non-issue if MS would sacrifice the fat margins on the HDs. I wonder how many of them they actually sell?

    It would surely be in their interests to slash the price tag in exchange for volume, and try to push everyone onto HDD. Even bundle one with a game, like the N64 expansion pack.

  • Ryze #44 4 years ago

    Perfect - I applaud them for not holding back the game - they should demand hard drive ownership for the best features of many games, rather than restrict the game for the sake of HDD-less cheap-skates.

  • Ryze #45 4 years ago

    As far as all of the fanboy bollocks is concerned: 360 has a generally faster drive with a much faster seek time. It loads games faster by default, so installing on the hard drive is generally not necessary.

    It'd be a nice option for the jet-engine version owners though. Mine's fine.

  • DanC89 #46 4 years ago

    Can't wait for the DLC. Or can I..

  • Yaz #47 4 years ago

    Ryze wrote: "360 has a generally faster drive with a much faster seek time. It loads games faster by default, so installing on the hard drive is generally not necessary."

    Yep. :)

  • symbiote #48 4 years ago

    "360 has a generally *louder* drive with a much *louder* seek time. It loads games *in a wind tunnel* by default, so installing on the hard drive is generally not *possible for suckers who bought a 360 Cripple*

    Fixed.

  • DAN.E.B #49 4 years ago

    suckers who bought a 360 Cripple
    unlike the suckers that bought a hugely over priced PS3 with no decent games?

  • Notorious_LRO #50 4 years ago

    From article: "Luckily Xbox 360 Core users still get to use the Road Rule mode online, where you can see who has the best showtime score as well as scroll through leaderboards."

    They sure are lucky.

  • Yaz #51 4 years ago

    Symbiote, I feel you must have licked your tongue out and said "SO THERE!!!" as you clicked the submit button in your last post. ;)

    There are pros and cons to both, you don't have to insult the console and it's owners to make your point. :|

  • #52 4 years ago

    The PS3 will rule supreme.

    The sorry assed x360 is soon ready for the trash bin.

    It's not just the Core that's crippled, all XB360s are crippled.

    P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

  • Yaz #53 4 years ago

    Did you type that all by yourself Hansi320?

    You had no help from anyone?

    Oh well done. :)

    ;)

  • #54 4 years ago

    Had a little help from my friends, how come?
    :)