CliffyB likes PC gaming again

He would make a brilliant politician as that is some mighty big u-turn.

seems he paid heed to those calling him an idiot... that includes his boss, his company, his peers and... naturally, his mother.

I think Mark Rein had a word. Can't fault Mark for his ability to slap Cliff back to reality (don't like him much though). I think Mark is finally realising that there is a fine line between being liked by the hardcore hoards and pissing them right off. Who the frak they think buy their games is beyond me. Cliff is arrogant but, gears would proceed with or without him. I think one day he'll finally understand the saying "No-one is indispencable"

Someone was told off it seems.

He is was kinda right though. PC gaming sucks right now.

I'm glad he does, I need a GoW port. 2009 is fine

PC gaming doesn't suck right now.. not if you have a GOOD PC. You get 'most' of the games that are on the 360 AND PC exclusives like Crysis all at a higher res with multi control / display options / modability / at half the price!

I've been a PC gamer for over ten years and this last year has been almost as good as 98/99.. if anything 2005 until 2007 was the crap time and even then that was only in comparison to it's best years rather than other platforms.

The things that do suck right now are MS' Vista/dx10 BS and games for windows live attempting to make multiplayer games conform to it's xbox model (paid gold) - that and gamespy being in too many mp titles this year. I don't really play MP anymore so that's a non issue for me.

PC gaming is NOT dead nor will it be any time soon.

btw eg> you have a typo/missing 'IN' here: "having previously said it was disarray."

What sharpfish said.

If PC gaming sucks right now then so does 360 gaming

I wonder if Cliffy B was sent to the naughty corner to think about what he said.

man, the beat down he must have gotten from mark rein must have been 'epic'.

i apologize profusely for the pun

PC gaming does suck (there's no games to play!) so he was right on the money.

And I don't understand why all these tossers are getting so riled up over his comments.

IDIOT.

He really is a giant tool.

I've always thought he was a douche. The biggest douche in the Universe. Congratulations douche. You've reached the pinnacle of douchedom.

Just what is a douche anyway?
Apart from a stupid, ruibbish insult.

What Sharpfish and Katsumoto said.

I own a 360, Wii and a PC. I havent turned the two consoles on for weeks. As Katsumoto said if PC gaming sucks so does the 360. The 360 is something of a budget PC, without the benefits of a PC. Both get much the same games eventually.

Cliffy B is a bit of a tool anyway.

Mark Rein Upper-cutted CliffyB.

@Fwing

Ever seen the South Park episode I'm referencing?

I suggest you watch it. Douche.

+1 to Sharpfish


I'm actually annoyed at the latest Penny Arcade 'blog'. I Usually agree with Tycho on most things, but his stance on PC Gaming is pretty unfounded.

Just remember this whole thing started with console fanboyism. Alot of us have had PCs and consoles and appreciate the strengths of both, but that is why we know the PC is better overall, if you can afford the hardware. And if you can afford to throw money at HD TVs etc, then you can damn well afford a kick-arse PC (mine cost a total of about £1000, and that includes all peripherals and yes it plays Crysis well thank you).

But no one is saying you *have* to spend that money on the PC instead. Just don't be so arrogant as to claim your console setup is somehow technically superior, or that the games are better and more varied. It just isn't true and never can be because the PC doesn't have life cycles, and has been around alot longer. It's simple logic.

Deal with it and play with what you will. Quietly.

Cliffy am Big Prick

I wonder if he appeared on MTV with a black eye and claimed to have "walked into a door."

Well said Lemming.

Play which ever format you choose, no need to bitch about other formats. But thats wishful thinking.

Aww, I like Cliff and Epic again.

"But no one is saying you *have* to spend that money on the PC instead. Just don't be so arrogant as to claim your console setup is somehow technically superior, or that the games are better and more varied."

I won't argue on technical superiority, but as the owner of a decent PC and a number of consoles, I can say I enjoy console gaming more. The console philosophy is a lot more friendly to people of arcadey dispositions. When King of Fighters XII and Ninja Gaiden 2 get ported decently to the PC, let me know.

Cliffy B is bipolar.

@penhalian

My dad is pretty indispencable with his company paying him 600 grand not to leave.

Also, you can do word processing and spreadsheets on the PC.

PC gaming is dead

gears of war+editor, cod4, sega rally revo, viva pinata, crysis, STALKER, tomb raider, Unreal Tournament 3+editor!, Half Life 2@it's best+editor, Bioshock,assasins creed, mass effect, alan wake, alone in the dark....

thats just a small selection of some of this generations 'best' released or soon to be released games (well bioshock isn't but it's certainly a big name) not all of them are on Xbox 360, not all of them are on PS3 but ALL OF THEM are on PC and look better if you have a decent system.

The only games that the PC misses out on are stuff like PGR4 (which is good). Halos/GTAs all come to PC eventually. YOu also forget that there is millions of titles for the pc from the smallest casual game to the largest epic (MMORPGS) and everything in between.

Factor in that the majority of 360's games are FPS games that PLAY BETTER on mouse/kbd.

Seriously anyone who says that there are no PC games to play is deluded. There are just as many as on console including games that are nigh on IMPOSSIBLE to convert to a console (CRYSIS for example - the port will be a subset with much inferior graphics).

Add on to that the almost defacto standard for including game editors on PC versions (half life, Unreal, Crysis) and the lastability is through the roof. The mods and total conversions for those top titles alone are better than most console FPS shovelware.

Where does that leave consoles? Stuff like the PS3 will be a viable purchase because unlike MS it keeps it's exclusives to itself and not put them on PC. So GT5 and MGS4 for example are worth picking up the console for (if that's your bag), but only because it also serves as a handy dandy BD player as well which at last is a cool thing to have rather than a gimmick.

I would love to see the look on some of your ignorant faces if you ever played Crysis on an 8800gtx PC or higher on high/very high config. Would also be interested to see what you think of stuff like sega rally (an average racer fair enough) and COD4 running faster and far better looking on the PC.

And please never forget that these days many people use the PC in a dual role. Yes they can have the monitor/m/kbd hooked up on a desk and use it as a powerhouse dev /digital audio workstation/art/rendering/whatever tool but a simple cable out of the back that goes to your HDTV combined with (if you want) a wireless Xbox 360 pad means you get exactly the same experience as the 360 except you pay less for the games, the games arguably look better and run far smoother AND you still get to play the PC exclusives which for the most part are just as vital to an all round gamer as the console exclusives. When running it like this it is for all intents and purposes 'just a console' but far more powerful than the current gen consoles.

There is a need for just a little intelligence to get games running in an ergonomically comparitive way to a console (tv + pad hooked up) but once you've done it it's everything the 360 is and more.

The only thing it lacks is unified online/achievements - and some PC games have them now anyway, the ones that don't are good because you don't have to pay to play online (which is how it should be).

And another PC bonus - load times are insanely fast on a SATA h/d setup. try and get that DVDrom to spin up and load data as fast as a PC hard drive can (on the same game) - good luck, oh and the noise the 360 makes even loading slowly is enough to drive you insane over time.

Only blinkered fan boys would continually slag off the PC, people without the full facts, or people who have a 5 year old+ PC and are frustrated because nothing runs that well. No shit... it's just the same as buying a new console every 5 years, it costs a bit more but just look at what it's used for, not just a games machine and forever useful as a PC.

Anyway that's my last essay on the topic because I don't care if console owners are missing out. I'm an ex-xbox360 owner (it's now dead - of course), I've got a gamecube and DS and have owned vcs2600, spectrum, Amiga, snes, gameboy, Playstation1, PC, Game boy advance/SP, Gamecube, DS, Xbox 360 (the only one to have ever died on me and left me out of pocket), and am in the process of buying a PS3 for it's exclusives + BD player. I've said that to make it clear i'm not a PC fanboy or any fanboy - I go where the good games are and I don't fucking lie. I've had just as many great gaming experiences on the PC as on all of those consoles/other Computers and will continue to for many years. Likewise the 360/PS3 has/will have some killer games worth buying a £300 system for (less than the cost of my gfx card!).

But regardless of your own lack of fast PC or unwillingness to spend £1k on a fast PC (that's what my last self built one cost, c2de6850 + 4gb ram + 640gb hardrive + 8800gtx GPU etc) you can not simply say that the PC doesn't get 'any good games' when in fact it gets almost ALL of the best games from the 360 + it's own amazing exclusives that really push the tech and show you what gaming can be.

oh and cliffy b is a tool, I used to like him but his 'fame' has gone to his head. He also slagged off some graphics in a map I made for UT2k3 a few years back.. what would he know.. *ahem*

"And if you can afford to throw money at HD TVs etc, then you can damn well afford a kick-arse PC "

Nonsense. If you've got a grand to spend you can buy a console+HDTV _OR_ a decent gaming PC. Not both.

Most people seem to prefer the former.

The man is simply a fool.

"seems he paid heed to those calling him an idiot... that includes his boss, his company, his peers and... naturally, his mother."

Heeheehee, nice one.

I've said this before, that one reason I like PC gaming (apart from the controls, and the types of games available) is that it's separate from the telly. I don't have to kick my wife and children off the main TV to use it, it's permanently setup in a separate room where I can game in comfort and privacy. My kids PCs are sat next to it, so I can also game but supervise them on their PCs too.

Only blinkered idiot PC fanboys assume they know best(what is it with them can they not just accept they are in the minority, different tastes and different needs)... theres plenty of reasons to choose 360 over PC(budget PC my ass, its nothing like a PC), theres plenty of reasons to own both. Theres very little reason to own a PS3 if you are measuring by the same stick... the exclusives which wont be making it to 360 or PC at some point, aside from one or two(and 360 has one or two of its own) are either dull, average at best critical acclaim or unoriginal or all of the above. I mean the Sonybots can post those uninspired release lists all they like besides one or two(GT5) one of which is roumered to go multiplatform(MGS4... PC at the least) nobody is really anticipating the releases of many of those titles.

Im sorry but if all PC fanboys have to justify "My choice is better/smarter" is Crysis and Stalker... then they really should take a step back and look at some of the bullshit they are coming out with, many of them are Sonybots who dont really care either way in reality, its all to convince themselves and others they dont need teh evil MS 360(its pathetic... also to turn around and defend the PS3 after slagging off the 360... comedy gold). The fact remains for most people 360 is much more suitable than a gaming PC and an infinately better choice than PS3 at the moment and that only looks set to improve. It sounds like theyd prefer MS not to release any of their console exclusives on the windows platform at all... these people are stupid it has to be said they just dont get it at all, the irony is they come accross as knowing better than everyone else. Sonybots are the worst thing about EG infact gaming in general.

"if all PC fanboys have to justify "My choice is better/smarter" is Crysis and Stalker"

Armageddon Empires, Audiosurf, Empire: Total War, Clear Skies, Subversion, Space Siege, The Witcher, Gal Civ, Spore, Demigod - a small sample of recent or soon to be released PC only games. Add to that almost every game worth playing on 360, but with better (for ME) control schemes etc, and I think my choice is fairly justified!

That list of 360/PC crossovers from this year include: Alan Wake, Age of Conan, Mass Effect, Assassins Creed, Dead Island, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Tomb Raider: Underworld, Far Cry 2, and so on.

I'm not denying the 360 has a load of great games. It does. Clearly. So does the PC. And a significant percentage of the list of great pc games is also on the list of great xbox games.

To the guy who said "PC gaming does suck (there's no games to play!) so he was right on the money. " - what games do you play?

Also, the "pc gamers are in the minority" comment - look outside the UK and US and you'll see that really isn't the case.

Calgon > but I own both or did b4 the 360 died (again) therefore i'm not a fanboy. It's only 'non fanboys' like me that can see the reason for owning all systems and if the 360 was actually reliable i'd reccomend it as a the primary platform for gaming. However it's not reliable. I have pc, did have 360 and am about to buy ps3 - if that's your definition of a 'PC fanboy' then go to the back of the class.

besides your rant has nothing to do with the issue I was responding too. i'm not saying the PC is all you need, nor am I saying it is better in 'all cases'. I am saying that those who insist there are no good games to play on the PC are very wrong and pointed out the many reasons why.

Anything else other than the 'no games on pc' or 'pc games are dying' issue is one for you fanboys to fight over. As PC owner and a console owner I can see it is not the case yet many still insist it is, so I point out that not only are the games available on the PC too but in most cases given a typical 'gamers' PC setup, the games also run smoother and look better and have more functionality, all to suppor the MAIN POINT being that the PC is just fine for games and has many games for it which goes against what many ACTUAL console fan boys want to believe.


look, all you need to do to avoid looking ignorant (which is something multi system non fanboys like me avoid easily because we know about all the formats) just go to the game website of your choice and open up the PC, PS3 and 360 sections and browse the reviews/release/upcomming games. YOu may be suprised to see just how MANY games are headed for the PC and not just shitty shovelware either but proper AAA titles from consoles plus expansive epic RPGs, RTSs and FPSs that are just not viable on or heading to console in any format.

to everyone else who thinks there's nothing to play on PC >
You are both ignorant and open to believe everything you hear spouted from anti PC zealots and PR agencies/Companies. The evidence is clearely there to be seen of how many games are on PC, while you choose not to see it you continue to look more than a little bit stupid.

All I know is I'll be playing the best games on PC and PS3 (and DS) while you lot continually attack rival formats through some kind of childish insecurity. The only format worth attacking here (now) is the 360 because of the way MS shafted it's users with the dying systems issue. Again click on my name and view my gamertag if you don't believe I owned a 360 and it's now dead.

@Calgon
'Im sorry but if all PC fanboys have to justify "My choice is better/smarter" is Crysis and Stalker... then they really should take a step back and look at some of the bullshit they are coming out with'

I think they are just defending their position from the bullshit the console fanbois are comming out with.

@lexx87

He's indispencable to you only I'm afraid. Even chairmen/women get kicked out when they do something embarassing to a company and some of them get paid millions. You'll find as you grow up into adulthood, that talking about your dads salary is one of the saddest things in the world and you'll definitely find out that the saying "no-one is indispencable" is a truth that only fools deny.

Dammit! It's "indispensable"!!! Sorry, my pedanticism got the better of me there...

@hypercube

I know. It was my little joke as I found that people tend to copy my comments as their own complete with spelling mistakes. It get's a mite annoying.

@Fwing: You just repeated what I said o_O

"@Fwing: You just repeated what I said o_O"

I come here to rant, not read!

Something else you anti-PC gamers might want to consider is that if PC gaming 'died' then your console manufacturers/developers would have no platform with which to push the envelope on, and everything would be cut down into a little uniformed box that would gradually become less and less 'sandbox' and less within you, the consumer's, control. It'd be practically Orwellian.


Things like online-gaming and nice graphics on your consoles exist because of PC gaming, not despite of it.

You think console developers would be trying to integrate things like modding into games if the PC wasn't doing it? Except of course, they'll charge you for every single one, naturally.

I downloaded 'Zombie Panic!' A critically acclaimed multiplayer mod for Half-life 2 last night for free, while I was playing Supreme Commander. What did you do?

@penhalion: You got me, hook, line and sinker

Calgon, I'm not sure any of the users defending the PC are stating their choice is smarter than others.

I for one said earlier

"Play which ever format you choose, no need to bitch about other formats."

Also you said;
"many of them are Sonybots who dont really care either way in reality, its all to convince themselves and others they dont need teh evil MS 360"

Now just think about this for a moment. Evil MS huh, anyone with a gaming PC is more than likely to have Windows installed on it. Now correct me if I'm wrong that would be developed by MS no? Besides I have a 360 sat next to my TV, and a Wii.

In fact the only blinkered idiot I see around here getting all worked up and slightly abusive is your good self. How about you calm down eh?

My primary gaming platform of choice is the PC, it has several plus points over consoles (but Im not one for listeing bullet points in discussions). Including as Ravenger said it's separate from the TV. Both consoles and PC's have their place.

We all enjoy playing games do we not? Surely at the end of the day no one wants to see any format fail, at least out of the current formats.

Its quite funny really, I've been hearing PC gaming is dead for the last ten years. No doubt ill keep hearing it in another ten years when im still happily playing new releases on mine.

That's a massive u-turn in a short space of time.

cliffy b=asshat

Wow! Why does every comments thread seem to turn into a format flame war?!

Choose PC.
Choose 360.
Choose PS3.
Choose DS.
Choose Wii etc

You are a gamer, choose what you want, play what you want. Enjoy!

I have chosen 360, PC and DS all for different reasons. Thanks.

pinhead > exactly. And each of those platforms have plenty of games worth buying/playing (except maybe the Wii right now) ;P

IronCladChicken I see that but they assume all console gamers are like that, like they are all less informed ect thats just annoying really, stick by your favourite platforms by all means but its better to be fair/objective about it and theyd not find themselves defending their "super expensive thousand poundz PC" (that was sarcasm btw) so often .

sharpfish The 360 is easily a better choice than the PS3 at the moment though if all you're after is gaming IMO(and if not, what about a nice Multimedia PC to go with your 360? buy and install a blu-ray drive for it and there you have it) and to many others too, I just found alot of what you said off topic and alot bullshit statements were made that show lack of insight and logic(and its the second thread Ive seen you post something like that) I didnt bother reading your reply because from the first paragraph I could see where it was going, rather than admitt to it you tried to save face and justify it... so youve been burned by 360s reliability? Just say so.. thats understandable and your choice but to go further and pretend things are different than they really are? Not wise. I know a shit load more than you do about the 360 Id wager so dont even go there and Ive seen the lackluster PS3 line up too which confuses me... where are the Sonybots getting the shit they are coming out with? Sony are going to need to do ALOT better than that.

FooAtari whos getting worked up? Not me Im just exposing some of the bullshit logic PC fanboys/Sonybots have, they fool themselves with it... maybe there's console fanboys who are just as bad but then they never preach in such a way. Second since when did owning a PC ever stop MS-haters? they are some of the most thick headed and deluded of all... after Sonybots.

Take note: I never said theres anything wrong with either console or PC I said theres plenty of good reasons to pick either... although IMO theres not many to pick the PS3 at the moment when you have 360 as an option, which is why I found Sharpfishes comments absurd, sure it will get better but with all that waiting Sonybots have had to do Id be pretty desperate or insecure too, its alot of money. I dont own any next gen console at the moment... theres really fault with any way you choose to go for your gaming this generation, some people like to pretend otherwise.

/rant over

@Calgon: "I see that but they assume all console gamers are like that, like they are all less informed ect thats just annoying really,"

Pretty sure every one of us used the term 'console fanboy'. So unless you are admitting to that, then no, we did not assume 'all console gamers'. A specific section of console gamers were accused of being 'less informed etc.' eg. fanboys.

Perhaps I should have picked my words more carefully if I came accross as overly offensive(but I wasnt generalising either... talking about a specific group), I just find some of the behaviour frustrating from all sides, it would be nice to beable to just think of everything in terms of games but people have to complicate it with trollish behaviour and sometimes weird stealth kind of trolling(the most messed up kind of fanboys... fighting the good fight going undercover lol) so theres always a devide in the gamer community, no wonder it seems to have stood still at times.

For me the trouble with PC gaming is that it generally requires you to boot into Windows. After the goodness of Linux and now OS X that's almost unbearable. Windows will kill PC gaming.

calgon > hmm more bullshit you posted about me above, something about trying to 'cover up' or something because I was 'caught out' that's the vibe I got anyway. Keep on attacking the arguer rather than the argument, fanboys tend to do that!

Needless to say that's completely not the case, I've never been 'caught out' on the net, nor proved wrong because I only post stuff when i'm sure about it.

I was saying it how I see it and how i've experienced it. I'm 33, I've worked in the games industry and I'm a coder and I understand fully all issues about all the consoles and I owned a 360 since late 2006. It was never about the 360 being inferior in any way it was about 360 owners (mainly) stating that the PC was shit and had no games for it. Again you have gone off topic by trying to drag my responses into some grey area they were never intended for and then accusing me of being the one to have an hidden agenda.

Once again: I like the 360 (but i'm very pissed off at being down £300 on a dead console you bet!)
I like the ps3 and up until this year thought it was a useless piece of ill fitting tech with an undeeded drive. the difference is I am actually not too proud to admit I was wrong with that view, bluray has 'won' and PS3 is getting stronger by the month in both exclusives, pricing and even the formerly very bad area of cross platform games. And £300 isn't much in the context of the exclusives + the blu ray drive (and yes i'm in the market for a HD player of some sort). My 8800gtx graphics card alone was £370 so anyone can see that both the 360 and ps3 are outstanding value.

Lastly I really like the PC because of all the points I've already mentioned. In effect I have nothing against any console except the PROVEN unreliability of the 360 and the fact that MS fucked me over with my e74/1 light error that meant they wouldn't fix it (even though this occured on a refurb THEY SENT ME as a replacement for a RROD 360 i'd return) - yes that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth but even so I'm always 'admitting' how stunning the 360's software line up is.

Tell me again what does any of that have to do with the thread and the points being made that the PC was 'shit' with 'no games'? The pc isn't shit it does have games and in the case of the cross platform ones in my experience they look better and run smoother on the PC (except bioshock which was absolute rubbish on PC).

Btw, if you didn't get Bioshock for your 360, it seems a lot more stable now they've patched it on PC. I admit it was utter bullshit how it took them like 4 months to patch it when it was utterly broken on release. Bah.

Dammit Les, I thought you were on my ignore list.... Fixed.

While I am Linux user for my day to day computing, my gaming box obviously has Windows installed on it.

But just for arguments sake.

Linux is still not ready for your average user, There are still to many issues and common problems such as wireless and webcams for one, and poor flash support for another. True there are always work arounds and fixes, but try telling joe average to bring up the consoles and type the following code, ain't gonna happen. Linux is getting close but it needs to get more support from hardware and software vendors before it can go truly mainstream. (slightly different to what I posted a few weeks ago,,,)

Macs. To expensive. Joe Average probably spends £400 - 500 on a PC not £800 - £1000 which I beleive is the cost of an imac (waits to be proved wrong)

Both suffer from a common problem of for the most part not being used in the workplace/school. For these reasons people are used to Windows and/or may require windows for compatibility issues.

Windows is going to be the dominant OS for several years yet.


Seems we actually think the same thing at the end of the day Calgon. I don't like seeing the same tiresome arguments and bullshit from trolls on either side of the fence. But if people continue to act dumb/be ignorant by using the same crap arguments to try and backup what they say (like having spending a grand every six months on PC gaming) then sometimes others can get a bit heated in their counter argument and start making harsh generalizations.

I just wish people didn't feel the need to act like asshats on the net

sharpfish I dont see why you're still arguing YOU were the one who went off topic like I said(bringing both 360 and PS3 into are you going to make me point it out to you or are you going to drop it and stop trying to save face?)... you should have just said youve been burned and dont want to risk buying another 360, instead of using this as an excuse to bring the PS3 vs 360 debate into it.

Tell me again what does any of that have to do with the thread and the points being made that the PC was 'shit' with 'no games'?
Does the word hypocrisy mean anything to you?

Second stating that youve worked in the industry is a cop out nor does it impress me/convince me you know better one bit(thats an example of spitting your dummy out there... you stated your age along with it like it matters) ... you obviously underestimated me but I never brought the power debate into it, its been an interest of mine for years now(well console hardware in general) but I will correct those who talk bollocks though. Same with anything else.

In closing... man up and accept it you did go off on one... I never said anything against the PC, I wasnt defending the "console fanboys"(although I did wonder if the --"if he doesnt agree he's a fanboy" -- rule thats used on all sides applied here ) I dont own a 360... youve assumed too much exactly like I described earlier, you are even seemingly arguing with things I never even said.

FooAtari Id have probably not have even bothered reading the article, let alone the comments too if it werent for lack of sleep and boredom. Sharpfish does have that attitude I described though, example:
"attacking the arguer rather than the argument" did he not see the amount of times I stated there's plenty of reasons to chose either one of those, he's pretty much having his own convo there attacking arguements he assumes I'll make... me being a Fanboy and all that. Never mind no point gettin into all that again.

edit: Why I chose to check this thread at this time in the morning I dont know but there you have it.

"Dammit Les, I thought you were on my ignore list.... Fixed."

Likewise... It seems that EG's ignore list once in a while turns off some ignores (had the same problem with Kato, TRUTH and Apologie).

"Macs. To expensive. Joe Average probably spends £400 - 500 on a PC not £800 - £1000 which I beleive is the cost of an imac (waits to be proved wrong)"

True but the number of people willing to pay for quality increases. And the price difference between high end PCs from the likes of Dell and HP versus Macs isn't that big anymore. But I don't doubt Macs will always have a minority stake.

"Windows is going to be the dominant OS for several years yet."

Something I wasn't contesting. But in the long run Windows will not survive because it's a terrible piece of software and it's not free. True, this is still propably 10-15 years off, but the share of PC users without Windows is steadily increasing. For people that are very price conscious Windows will never be able to beat Linux as it gets more and more mature. And for people that don't mind spending a few bucks more there's a better alternative in Mac OS X.

"Linux is still not ready for your average user"

I would have agreed with you on Linux not being ready for mainstream consumers a few years ago but not anymore since the release of Ubuntu 7.10 and Linux coming pre-installed on PCs. Having to install the OS was what caused the main hassle with Linux. Just like with installing a new version of Windows yourself, you have to pray that the drivers you require are on the disc. When I installed Windows XP on my previous PC, I had to use another PC to download SATA drivers onto a 3,5" disc to actually get the installer to recognise the HDD.

Calgon stop blaming me you idiot. You were the one who came on here and posted direct attacks at me, therefore you deserve every accusation (right or wrong) that you get. I stated my age so that you knew I wasn't just a 'new gamer' and the reason I did that was because YOU (not me) started some pissing contest when you stated:

"I know I know more about the 360 than you ever will" or something ridiculous like that, you don't fucking know me, you don't know what experience i've had you don't know that aside from being an ex owner of a 360, someone who has fixed the fucking thing with Xclamps, ram chip shims and all manner of technical stuff INSIDE the 'dead' console (this was after ms said they wouldn't fix it) - basically if you go around telling people that you know more about something than them then expect to get some background of that persons experience back.

If you don't care then why haven't you just hit ignore under my posts - you would never see my posts again and I couldn't care less. I'm putting you on ignore now because you are just abusive and are viewing my posts from a cynical standpoint where 'everyone must be up to something dodgy' - you assume i'm a PC fanboy or a sonybot or whatever you keep insisting and I keep PROVING i'm not but it's not good enough for you, you just don't like my tone/arrogance/whatever and you want to attack that - now I can accept that but at least come out and just say that instead of clouding the argument by making me out to be a biased 'fanboy' for the systems you don't happen to own/like/use.

for the final time I have/had (or will have) all systems, and all of them have good games and all of them are good buys if that's what you want. There is no argument there. It's people like you (mainly the 360 zealots) who keep insisting that PC's are shit (because you PC got most of the 360's good games and can't take the truth) or you say that PS3 is worthless - maybe a year ago but this year no way it's had a price cut and it's a cracking RELIABLE, quiet, and powerful enough console.

I honestly don't know why the fuck you are nit picking every last detail of my posts because I can assure you, while they may have been long posts they were written in a casual manner meaning to offend no one but to correct the misconception of the PC having no games or that it is 'dead' which is ridiculous.

I didn't read most of your posts because once your insults start towards me I switch off so if there was some sense of reasoned debate in there I appologise for not seeing it but if you want people to take you seriously and consider your opinion leave the insults and pissing contests out of it and i'll do the same (as I did before you joined in the 'debate').

remember you are on ignore now so call me a stupid wanker if you like because I won't see it, and do yourself a favour and put me on ignore because I'd rather not waste my posts on argunmentative/pedandtic shites like you.

Before I leave this thread once and for all here is a little reminder of why i'm now talking to you the way I am as you seem to have a very short memory. These first few were said before I'd even said anything to you and you attacked while I and others were busy talking about the pros and cons of the systems and the wealth of games on the PC. We will have a heated debate about the games and the formats, come on you know that's how it goes by now surely? However we didn't bring it down to the level of abuse and accusations until YOU joined in. I've done this seeing how you like to rip peoples posts apart and analyse them lets turn the tables on you and then you can 'man up' and admit you totally misunderstood our points (and my posts) and stop being a troll.


CALGON WROTE: "blinkered idiot PC fanboys assume"

Nice insult - I don't recall me saying 'Xbots' or 'Sonybots' (which would be stupid of me as I have owned a 360 and enjoyed it and i'm getting a PS3 - go figure)


CALGON WROTE:"theres plenty of reasons to choose 360 over PC(budget PC my ass, its nothing like a PC)"

Did we say there wasn't? Again this has nothing to do with the actual debate of the 'no games on pc' falacy and is already steering the debate towards 'why the 360 is better than PC' when the debate was 'a pc can be easily as good as a 360 and sometimes better but likewise the other way around' - this is where you misunderstood my posts and want me to 'confess' to something that didn't actually happen.


CALGON WROTE: "Im sorry but if all PC fanboys have to justify "My choice is better/smarter" is Crysis and Stalker... then they really should take a step back and look at some of the bullshit they are coming out with, many of them are Sonybots who dont really care either way in reality"

More barely disguised insults towards PC owners (and me as a PC owner posting in the thread beforehand), again you seem to be missing the point we never said GET A PC AND NOT A 360, I was of course using the 360 as a comparison aid in highlighting just how many games the PC does actually get and that they are just as good as the 360 in most cases (and sometimes better). I never said "do not buy a 360" and if I did it would only be based on its RROD never on it's games, I think it has the most robust software of all the console formats (which funnily enough is why i've owned one for a year and a half and spend night on £1k on it + games + controllers/wireless battery packs etc)


CALGON WROTE: "sharpfish The 360 is easily a better choice than the PS3 at the moment though if all you're after is gaming IMO"

Right, and who's disagreeing with you? You think you are some higher plane that knows something the rest of us/the world don't already fucking know. Time and again i've stated that as a gamer the 360 is definitely the best choice (If it was reliable) the reliability part is actually quite important to many people, funny that. The reason I'm PRO PS3 right now is cos i'm not so into brand loyalty (as a former 360 owner/player) to not be able to admit that in fact for £300 for a bluray player, a quiet reliabel system, comparable multiformat games and STUNNING EXCLUSIVES (the ps3 does appear to have more exciting exclusives for the first half of the year - this is subjective of course but it's only my opinion, disagree with that but don't write the whole machine off base on it's previous years crap software lineup).

CALGON WROTE:"so youve been burned by 360s reliability? Just say so.."

Yawn, I'm fed up of 'just saying so' (ask Miiguell he'll tell you how often I mention I was burned to the tune of at least £500 thanks to the 360 which I assumed would be as reliable as any other piece of consumer electronics). This isn't a hidden fact, I'm as open about that as I am about my enjoyement of ALL consoles and PC. I'm am totally open to all formats if they have good games and this seems to throw you (and some others) because they always assume every last person posting something positive about one format must be 'anti-the other format' or a fanboy this i just not true I'm just a gamer who likes to play and I don't give afuck WHO makes the damn things so long as they work for more than a year without going tits up and leaving me with loads of useless games I have sell off.

CALGON WROTE:"where are the Sonybots getting the shit they are coming out with? Sony are going to need to do ALOT better than that. "

I'm not a sonybot - I don't even have a PS3 and I never owned a PS2 - you are so wrong on that score. I'm merely considering a PS3 now that I want to play Gran Turismo 5 *AND* I would like bluray player to compliment my HDTV after waiting ages for the format war to settle down. Had HD won I doubt I would have bought a PS3 hows that for honest? It swung it but that's not to say it's games (the exclusives) didn't also tempt me.

CALGON WROTE:" sharpfish I dont see why you're still arguing YOU were the one who went off topic like I said(bringing both 360 and PS3 into are you going to make me point it out to you or are you going to drop it and stop trying to save face?)"

hows this, there is a format debate going on long before you enter the thread so frankly it has nothing to do with you why I decide to mention the PS3/360. If this confuses you then look at the big picture. From the perspective of a cynical fan boy I can understand it looks like a trojan subject to start singing the praises of the underperforming PS3 but from *MY* well intended perspective, one that had no bias on the games front to any system was merely serving to draw out the big picture in relation to the kind of games you can get on the PC (again the MAIN debate the topic had moved towards). I mentioned that the 360's exclusives or majority of AAA games happen to come out on PC too (THIS IS TRUE YOU CAN NOT DENY IT), I then said the PS3 however happens to keep it's exclusives for the most part, to itself which is WISE if you want your console to be a dominant force and a tempter for those of us who happen to own fast PCs. So of course I bigged up the PS3 in that respect because It has actual games coming out for it that I just WON'T be able to play on the PC as they will never be released for it. There is very little on the 360 that I want to play that isnt' also coming to PC in some form. The only games I miss from the 360 are DEAD RISING (one of my all time favourite games) and Project Gotham, the rest I have on PC or could get on PC and the ones I can't I don't happen to care about in comparision to stuff like Wipeout/GT4/MGS4/etc.

CALGON WROTE: "I know a shit load more than you do about the 360 Id wager so dont even go there"
and
CALGON WROTE: "Second stating that youve worked in the industry is a cop out nor does it impress me/convince me you know better one bit .... you obviously underestimated me but I never brought the power debate into it"

Hmm, contradictory no? For a start me stating I've worked in the industry (and I do still coding and stuff) was in no way meant to 'impress' you or anyone. There are loads of people who post on here who've worked in the industry so what? I posted it because you stated you KNEW MORE. Then I find out you DON'T EVEN FUCKING OWN A 360?? (or did I miss something?).

So how can you assume you know more than me about a 360 when:

a. you don't own one
b. you've never been through MS return procedure (3 times)
c. you've never opened one and seen what a crock of shit design it is inside?

I gave my background (age and experience) to show that I didn't come down in the last shower and wasn't a mouthy teenager making shit up. What is there to make up? Again all i've ever stated are 2 key facts:

1. THERE ARE GAMES ON THE PC MANY ARE THE AAA TITLES FROM CONSOLES

and

2. THE XBOX360 HAS POOR RELIABILITY AND MANY MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHAFTED BY MS OVER IT

Those are the 2 key points and I stand by them, this has nothing to do with GAMES ON THE 360 at all, nor does it mean i'm a sonybot just because I mentioned that Sony are getting their shit together and HAVE RELIABLE HARDWARE.

CALGON WROTE: "In closing... man up and accept it you did go off on one... "

I accept I had a go at you yes, but read back your first post full of insults (and more after) towards me, not to mention the accusations and assumptions and then ask yourself why It got heated - wouldn't you ave done the same after posting an innocent post and having random poster X come in trying to belitte/patronise/accuse you?

CALGON WROTE:" I never said anything against the PC, I wasnt defending the "console fanboys" ... I dont own a 360... youve assumed too much exactly like I described earlier, you are even seemingly arguing with things I never even said. "

No, no , no. This has nothing to do with PC (the real debate before you waded in did) this is to do with YOUR ATTITUDE towards posters (me) who happend to talk freely about appreciating the PC and the PS3 while being pissed off at the unreliabilty of the otherwise excellent 360.

And if you think I assumed too much, yeah I sure did assume you at least HAD the console you were so convinced 'you knew more about that me'... and even now I don't know what you know about the 360 so i'd never make blind statements saying 'I know more' but frankly based on your ignorance thus far I'd think it's safe to assume I do in fact know a heck of lot more about it in both technical, design, coding and performance terms... oh and I also used one for gaming for over a year does that count?

and now with all that said, and because I'd like to get on with more important things on a saturday I will leave it there. Just stop asking me to 'confess' or 'own up' to shit that your own cynisism is inventing cos it just won't happen i'm afraid.

I'm off to play my DS with my G/F... oh shit, i've 'mentioned' the DS now is that allowed? FFS






edit > and yes you and miiiguel are the only 2 on my ignore list now and you both seem to have a problem with people who like the PC or PS3 so I'd suggest you look at your own motives before accusing others.

"Those are the 2 key points and I stand by them, this has nothing to do with GAMES ON THE 360 at all, nor does it mean i'm a sonybot just because I mentioned that Sony are getting their shit together and HAVE RELIABLE HARDWARE."

Don't sweat it, that's just how fanboys (either from the Sony, MS or Nintendo camp) are. They can't think objectively (if that ever is truely possible btw) about a piece of electronics and if you're not praising their favourite system through the roof, you're of the opposition. It's a bit sad, I've tried to argue with them in the past but you get nowhere. It's a complete and utter waste of time.

OMG this guy is 33? Sharpfish you sad ***... shut up its embaressing to read your shite(I think we can all see what you're doing here), I dont need to show you where you went off topic with the "no point in 360... PS3 is gonna haves exclusivez and 360 doesnt have any and the hardware is teh crap innit?" because you admitted it and made a half assed attempt to justify it despite it making you a COMPLETE FUCKING HYPOCRITE!

CALGON WROTE:" sharpfish I dont see why you're still arguing YOU were the one who went off topic like I said(bringing both 360 and PS3 into are you going to make me point it out to you or are you going to drop it and stop trying to save face?)"

hows this, there is a format debate going on long before you enter the thread so frankly it has nothing to do with you why I decide to mention the PS3/360. If this confuses you then

Right so YOU ARE a hypocrite and a condescending prick and that just completely nullifies the rest of that essay... which quite frankly is selective and in some cases taken out of context.

I did that was because YOU (not me) started some pissing contest when you stated:

"I know I know more about the 360 than you ever will" or something ridiculous like that,

Thats not what I said or meant, you are a dumbass its plain to see(so whether your a 33 year old coder or not has no relevance you may aswell be just a gamer for the insight you seem to have)... 1) I never attacked you directly, not by name, I described a certain typed of behaviour/fanboy and you responded to it.(ooops on your part) 2) YOU were the one who suggested and assumed I was ignorant as if you somehow knew better, I was simply letting you know you were biting off more than you could chew pal.

So how can you assume you know more than me about a 360 when:

a. you don't own one
b. you've never been through MS return procedure (3 times)
c. you've never opened one and seen what a crock of shit design it is inside?


I have seen inside the 360 I know all about what was causing the RROD but its not limited to that I know about the architecture, components and how it compares to other hardware such as the PC and PS3. You'd really like to fool yourself into thinking you know better or where Im coming from but you dont at all, like I said you are misinterpreting and assuming too much... you're having your own little arguement here using bits and peices of my posts.

on your ignorance thus far I'd think it's safe to assume I do in fact know a heck of lot more about it in both technical, design, coding and performance terms... oh and I also used one for gaming for over a year does that count?


What ignorrance? Tell me what knowlege have you shown?(technical, design, coding and performance terms? If you do fair play... from what Ive seen of you so far?... I doubt it very much) Show me where you corrected me on any of those matters? You dont seem to know much at all(for years Ive discussed with coders, developers and gone into great detail with the technology behind gaming systems of all kinds... You dont seem like any of those I bet its nothing like you tell it for that reason... tester? done a bit of coding at home? probably... hey you see that? Im assuming now do you like it?)... check some of my posts if you like(theres not many people to discuss technical matters with here and its not the right place for it... try PCvsConsole forum if you do have a genuine interest and have something to discuss Id like to see just how much you know) ... or try and discuss some of these technical matters with me perhaps? YOU assumed I was ignorrant first remember dont try and spin this arround. You dont seem to posses much intelligence to me, so you cant be a very good dev, you are also one of the most obnoxious and abusive members Ive come accross in a long time... not to mention deluded(seriously you dont half talk some shit mate a page without saying anything that justifies your off topic rant?) so add me to your ignore list good riddance.

Since you said you "have" worked in the industry does that mean you no longer work in the industry? Was it work experience or something? Haha I joke but Im not convinced you know even half as much as me about the hardware(if you didnt just make that up about being a "coder" which is a word next to nobody uses for themselves in the industry for a start, second Ive been a member here for years and it wouldnt be the first time someones bullshitted to try and win an arguement, trouble is whats right is right so it wouldnt matter either way to me)... even the RROD which made your condescending asshole attitude all the more agitating.

shit that your own cynisism is inventing cos it just won't happen i'm afraid.

You hypocrite I swear thats plagerism, you cant even find your own complaints, youve done nothing but argue with yourself basically.

for the final time I have/had (or will have) all systems, and all of them have good games and all of them are good buys if that's what you want. There is no argument there. It's people like you (mainly the 360 zealots) who keep insisting that PC's are shit

See there it is... ABSOLUTE rubbish, tell me people is this guy having a laugh or what? He IS having his own conversation there because thats the only way he can feel like he's had a little victory instead of looking a complete fool. I have nothing against people who like PC gaming, I actually like PC gaming. I dont like PS3 personally(the list of games that are true exclusives --I doubt MGS4 is going to remain exclusive unless Sony has paid big bucks for it, so expect a PC port at the least-- are also few and to me personally they are more missable than 360s true exclusives, not only that but it makes more sense for me to buy a 360 rather than upgrading my PC which I still used for gaming just not new releases so I get most of the top PC games too... for me thats a good trade off I dont mind that situation. I think its good for the devs($) and gamers... funny how you missed that being a dev and all, not very insightfull) but I dont have anything against people who do and I can agree to disagree to some extent... but Sonybots? The most deluded, ill informed, ignorrant fanboys of them all. PC Fanboys are just annoying because of the way they veiw "console gamers" you see its not "gamers" to them because they are elitists who are the only "real gamers" in their minds. Fanboy doesnt = owner of theres a difference you ignorrant fool you need educating. The whole point is YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO TALK with the crap you came out with, I was pointing out the other side is just as bad(which is why I parodied one your comments in my first post) you've failed to grasp that where others have, I never attacked you or singled you out by name or anything like that(go ahead and look at my first post people).

rdexter hang on a minute thats not right at all Ive no problem with whatever people prefer, as I said to some extent I can agree to disagree fanboys can never do that... perhaps you missed the part where I pointed out theres a big difference between a PS3 owner and a PS3 Fanboy/Sonybot. Since I vaguely remember you trolling the 360 sections(appologies if Im mistaking you for another poster... well actually no looking at that post you dont deserve one either way) that pretty much puts you in the latter so youve no reason to even think about pointing the finger.