Church forgives Resistance

By Robert Purchese Published 24 October, 2007

But Sony still in wrong.

The Church of England has forgiven Sony for not asking permission before recreating Manchester Cathedral in Resistance: Fall of Man.

It was let off the hook last night at the BAFTA ceremony after it failed to win in its publicly voted for PC World Gamer's category.

"I think some important lessons have been learnt," said the Very Rev Rogers Govender, Dean of Manchester Cathedral (recorded by the BBC).

"So we do forgive Sony for what they have done, even though they still believe they have done nothing wrong."

However, he went on to reprimand Sony for the example it was setting, and said our recently more advanced industry should look to mediums like television and film as a guideline on how to show courtesy toward delicate social matters.

"In an industry that is breaking new frontiers, it is important that long held traditions of film and television are maintained," he said.

"These traditions include having courtesy, respecting the dignity of your subject, and admitting when mistakes have been made.

"In so many ways Sony have failed to live up to these standards by disrespecting people of faith and the victims of gun crime here in Manchester," he added.

Govender had previously called for Resistance: Fall of Man to be removed from the BAFTA nominations.

However, he did also admit last night that Manchester Cathedral had seen a rise in visits from young people and tourists following the very public row.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (68) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • jellyhead #1 4 years ago

    All's well that ends well.
    Bless.

  • SeesThroughAll #2 4 years ago

    "I think some important lessons have been learnt,"

    Yes.

    Getting the Church all worked up as free advertising is priceless.

  • Darren #3 4 years ago

    The Church are hypocrites in my opinion; the only reason they've forgiven Sony is because they've benefited from them in the form of free publicity for Manchester Cathedral. Why else would they mention an increase in the number of visitors? ;)

  • Lebowski #4 4 years ago

    Or forgiveness is a Christian ethos? It's good that in today's world someone's decided not to hate and sue for a change.

  • Shinji #5 4 years ago

    Or forgiveness is a Christian ethos? It's good that in today's world someone's decided not to hate and sue for a change.

    It helps that they had absolutely no legal case, and would have been laughed out of court, of course.

  • drumbaby #6 4 years ago

    Who gives a fuck if the church forgive or not? Surely it's up the that God bloke or summink?

  • Skooch #7 4 years ago

    /gets big hammer and bashes nearest religion

  • Verwandlung #8 4 years ago

    Thank you God.

  • Triggerhappytel #9 4 years ago

    "In related news Sony wanted to thank the CofE for the free publicity and the increased sales in said game.

    They hope to work together again in the future."
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/07 @ 14:35

  • The-Bodybuilder #10 4 years ago

    Yep, looks like we've got ourselves another God-bashing thread to last for 4 pages.

  • kangarootoo #11 4 years ago

    @Darren

    Errr, I think forgiveness might have turned up in the whole Christian ballpark a little earlier than the PS3.

    "By showing forgiveness the church is being hypocritical"


    "However, he did also admit last night that Manchester Cathedral had seem a rise in visits from young people and tourists following the very public row"

    Heehee, thats kind of funny though.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/07 @ 14:34

  • ZuluHero #12 4 years ago

    increased sales and increased tourism. Sounds like win win to me.

  • fightman #13 4 years ago

    sony's chairman would take that vicar's cock up his gapey arse and praise the devil while he did it if he thought it would sell a few more of their shitty abortive ps3's.

  • Les #14 4 years ago

    I don't forgive the Church the witch hunts and burning of heretics.

  • ccfb #15 4 years ago

    "It helps that they had absolutely no legal case, and would have been laughed out of court, of course."

    From memory, the curch were never taking it legal, instead demanding apologies and modifications to the game post-hoc.

  • AcidSnake #16 4 years ago

    In an industry that is breaking new frontiers, it is important that long held traditions of film and television are maintained

    Translation:

    In an industry that is breaking new frontiers, it is important that long held frontiers are maintained

  • Steroyd #17 4 years ago

    The church forgives Sony's Resistance game.

    /Resistance sales jump 500%...again.

  • GamesConnoisseur #18 4 years ago

    At Fightman unrepeatable comment

    :-o
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/07 @ 14:42

  • urban #19 4 years ago

    oh shut the fuck up.

  • septimus #20 4 years ago

    Who cares about child abuse in the clergy, our god house is in a game with a gun! Hells no!

    STFU CofE. Shouldn't you be running some fate's somewhere and other such important stuff instead of dishing out pointless forgiveness to things that do not need forgiving?

    Be nice to fightman, he was sexually abused by a PS3, the trauma has got to him. But do block the little prick.
    Edited by 2 at 24/10/07 @ 14:52

  • Les #21 4 years ago

    "Or forgiveness is a Christian ethos?"

    Forgiveness is a conditional Christian ethos. In fact, they're just like regular humans. Only they use an atiquated (proven, some people around here would say ;) ) collection of fairy tales to rationalise their conditional forgiveness.

  • Rirekon #22 4 years ago

    I read this as;
    "Our attempts at using the media to pressure Sony into giving us money have failed so we're going to appear to be taking the moral high road."

    One day the rest of the world will catch on to what the games industry already knows; Complaints about games in the media only serve to increase sales.

  • fightman #23 4 years ago

    lol@septimus.

    tho truly art a motherfucker indeed!

    im so upset rofl

  • kangarootoo #24 4 years ago

    @septimus

    /sigh

    What you are talking about is related to the Catholic church. The church in question this time is church of england (as stated in the first sentence of the article)

    I'm an aetheist, but at least I know the bloody difference.

    I mean otherwise I would just be commenting on something I clearly know nothing about, and that would just make me look foolish... right?

  • kangarootoo #25 4 years ago

    @fightman

    "im so upset rofl"

    But you are upset inside. Upset and lonely. Which is why you come on here and vent, and pretend you are actually someone who doesn't care what anyone thinks. 'cos its easier that way.

    We understand. Its ok to cry.

  • fightman2 #26 4 years ago

    dont worry, i have multiple accounts and will be creating more continuously in order to ensure that my comments reach the widest audience.

    fightman will always be here HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    you thick cunts.

  • AcidSnake #27 4 years ago

    fightman will always be here HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    Until you get banned that is...

  • Aretak #28 4 years ago

    Hi Mapster.

  • fightman2 #29 4 years ago

    no chance of a IP ban. i would use the TOR network to ensure dynamic IP's.

    fightman is here to stay.

    that is all.

    back soon, cunts.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/07 @ 15:07

  • fightman3 #30 4 years ago

    ha ha ha, disregard that, I suck cocks!!!

  • Steroyd #31 4 years ago

    Fightman3 wtf? o_O

  • SBfistfun #32 4 years ago

    ^ Lol

    Long live Fightman and his insanity

  • Kryon #33 4 years ago

    "Errr, I think forgiveness might have turned up in the whole Christian ballpark a little earlier than the PS3."

    You'd have to be Christian to forgive the PS3.

  • Apologie #34 4 years ago

    Resistance is Fiction, is a game (in fact a great one).... and i don't see how they disrespected the Church by including the cathedral... by the way, R&C: Tools of destruction is awesome, getting great Reviews everywhere... (just curious about the score Eurogamer will give to the game).

  • Stormflood #35 4 years ago

    I forgive the Church.

    Self righteousness is fun.

  • monkie_king #36 4 years ago

    Apologist: please go and shill for Sony somewhere else. We all have the critical faculties to judge the merits of Sony's console based on the available evidence. Kthxbye.

  • jaxon58 #37 4 years ago

    I'm an atheist, and I hate levels which are set everywhere other than churches.

  • Genji #38 4 years ago

    LOL @ RELIGION AM I RIGHT FOLKS

  • MrChuckles #39 4 years ago

    The 'Very Rev' Rogers Govender.

    Are there different levels of Revered?

    Can someone be 'Very Very Rev'?

    Surely just Rev is enough for anyone?

  • Xerx3s #40 4 years ago

    "I think some important lessons have been learnt,"

    Yes, you're still an arrogant cock.

  • Lebowski #41 4 years ago

    Don't the CoE 'own' the church in question though? Isn't it the same as someone going into your house, photographing it, and then putting it all into a game? ("Find Dad's hidden stack of 80's Fiestas - 20 Achievement Points!";) It's all about image, image representation, and rights of use, isn't it? (sorry, I'm not Rumpole).



  • pigwhistler #42 4 years ago

    Why cant all religous people just take a vow of silence and shut the fuck up - forever.

  • themerlin13 #43 4 years ago

    But since the church in the game was on pc by artists etc you could argue that it's nothing to do with Manchester at all, it's not a film of the building in question!! LOL.

    LOL, can see Rockstar getting ready to put a religious building being used as a brothel in GTA 4 LOL ;-)

  • The_Inquisitor #44 4 years ago

    It took them a while to 'forgive' didn't it?

  • pjmaybe #45 4 years ago

    Wow, phew, thank god (hah) for that. I mean it could've been awful, terrible. Whatever would Sony have done if the church had remained pissed off at 'em.

    Peej

  • Kryon #46 4 years ago

    Forgiveness takes time, The good people who worship there have had to get over alot of embarrassment, I mean, to have your building feature in a really poor attempt at a FPS on the least desirable next gen console at present is really quite distressing imo.

  • homerramone #47 4 years ago

    What a load of twaddle !!

    Tax the church now !!

  • Apostle #48 4 years ago

    Religion: OMG!

  • kangarootoo #49 4 years ago

    "no chance of a IP ban. i would use the TOR network to ensure dynamic IP's. "

    That is the single saddest thing I have ever heard.

    Bully for you eh, makes it all worthwhile.

  • Feanor #50 4 years ago

    God damn whining churches can go to hell.

  • Tiny_Tim #51 4 years ago

    I may be wrong, but is there not quite a lot of wanton destruction in the bible?

  • Les #52 4 years ago

    "I may be wrong, but is there not quite a lot of wanton destruction in the bible?"

    If performed for the glory of God it can of course not be 'wanton'... So you're wrong. ;)

  • mcwildcard #53 4 years ago

    Next up - 'Outcry over massacre at St Pauls Cathedral in game aptly named Hellgate'

    You know it's going to happen...

  • Bluetooth #54 4 years ago

    REPENT!!!

  • zedzee #55 4 years ago

    Both games (Resistance and Hellgate) are not respecting someone's beliefs and that is not right.

    Someone earlier rightly said, I can't see them putting a mosque in there and that's something that no one can argue with, because we all know the consequences, don't we?

    Attacking something one knows nothing about simply means one is in fear of it or that one does not understand it. While throwing clichés around that one's heard somewhere else makes one sound like uneducated and misinformed - just like sampling a record. But have you actually tried to understand it yourselves?

    This is not an attack on your beliefs, as a Christian, I respect all your opinions, even though I may not agree with some of them - I only ask for the same in return.

    Everyone should extend the same courtesy to any church and believers as we would to our family, friends, girlfriend/boyfriend or whoever/whatever you hold dear to your heart and would jump to defend in an instant, if they/it were wronged in any way.

    Taking the time to understand something or someone makes one more wise and be able to speak with authority and knowledge and that can NEVER be a bad thing, nor can anyone mock you for that. Any I mean that for Sony as well.

    Going one step further and defending someone else's stance/belief makes you even more worthy and respected for your tolerance and appreciation - again, not a bad thing. So, I ask kindly and humbly that you defend the CoE's views or at the very least respect them and comment on here with more authority towards Sony and other publishers, by holding them accountable and responsible...Just like you might do of the government or indeed someone who injures or or worse, that thing/person you care about the most.

    Thank you and I'm sorry for going on or sounding a bit moralistic, in a headmaster kind of way! :-)

  • Lov3 #56 4 years ago

    "Both games (Resistance and Hellgate) are not respecting someone's beliefs and that is not right."

    I think people have this mad idea that Manchester Cathedral and St. Paul's Cathedral are only known for being religious establishments. The fact that they are churches is almost incidental; they're a striking example of English history, and play no small part in defining the skyline of each city respectively. The church doesn't hold any kind of monopoly on how we can represent that history artistically, and that includes detailed 3D representations. It's not a personal dig on Manchester gun crime, or churches, or Christianity, or anything. They're just taking artistic license with an actual historical event (the bombing). Just because a religion still happens to be practiced in there doesn't mean they can veto that kind of artistic representation.

    "I can't see them putting a mosque in there and that's something that no one can argue with, because we all know the consequences, don't we?"

    The Sony buildings would get bombed by radical Muslims. Would that make Sony wrong, or terrorists?

  • nick_f Verified Senior Producer, Microsoft #57 4 years ago

    Jesus quicksaves

  • drxym #58 4 years ago

    Sony isn't wrong and I wished they just told the church to go to hell. The building is in the public domain and the context that it was used in the game (as a field hospital in a 1950's alternate universe) is hardly demeaning of the church. Neither does it have much to say about modern gun culture. Sony should have just ignored them and let the church make an ass of themselves in court if it came to that.

  • Kryon #59 4 years ago

    @zedzee

    You're asking for people to respect your beliefs, I honestly believe religious people should be locked in mental asylums. Religious folk believe in things that are not there and cause wars and death because of their warped beliefs, similar to a paranoid schizophrenic. I have no respect for your religion or anyone else's. I do however feel sorry for those who have been indoctrinated from a young age to worship a non-existent 'God' (as you probably were). The world would be a better place without religion, so why on earth would I respect it?

    You say that people who mock religion are fearful of it or in some way don't understand it. I say you are fearful of living without it. What would happen if you set your 'beliefs' aside? Would you go to hell? Would Jesus not be your mate anymore?

    I hate religion in any shape or form and believe it should be mocked at every occasion possible.

    If there is a God, trust me, he/she/it has nothing to do with some crap book that some old fool wrote a bunch of lame stories in a few thousand years ago...

    Mehligion.


  • Monkey-Wizard-Ken #60 4 years ago

    Sony has no time for the Jesus

  • Daikon #61 4 years ago

    Of course they forgive them.
    That's their bloody job, isn't it?

  • Genji #62 4 years ago

    "The world would be a better place without religion, so why on earth would I respect it?"

    Because its going to stick around regardless of what you think? It does help many people (read: somewhere in the order of billions) live through the difficult periods in their lives, as hard as that may be to believe.

    Because you might have dealings with people that happen to be religious in the future, and it would be difficult to do so if you can't hold your anti-religious rage in check?

    You need to calm down. Really.

  • Kryon #63 4 years ago

    "Because its going to stick around regardless of what you think?"

    Paedophiles have been around far longer than religion and will probably be around forever, does that mean I should respect them too? I mean they've hurt far fewer people then religion has over the years.

    I know it's 'un-pc' to speak out against religion but I don't really care. If religion didn't hurt anyone then I'd have no problem with it but people die, kill, rape, torture etc all in the name of religion every single day. I will not respect that, end of.

    I spit on religion and mock all who follow it.

    /mocks

  • Kill_Crazy #64 4 years ago

    "I don't forgive the Church the witch hunts and burning of heretics."

    I don't forgive them for missionaries fucking up half the worlds population
    or
    all the wars they started
    or
    being one of the biggest land owners in the UK and pleading poverty all the time.

    /atheist rant over

    EDIT:
    @zedzee

    People who call themselves one, when writing or speaking, are generally trying to make themselves sound more important and knowledgeable than they are.

    I totally agree with Kryon :)
    Edited by 1 at 25/10/07 @ 07:53

  • L42yB #65 4 years ago

    @andyjack - +1 :D

  • zedzee #66 4 years ago

    @ Kryon:

    It's not that we believe in something that is not there. We've taken a leap of faith - that's what it is. Some people cannot do that. They think the here and now, the car they drive, the money they have, the food they eat and the console they own is all that there is and in a few year's time (if they're not unlucky to contract a fatal disease) they will die and their light be extinguished for good. Religious people obviously believe otherwise and in salvation of their soul by a heavenly Father and Son.

    I accept your view that you "hate" religion. I agree that wars have been fought in the NAME of religion and much suffering has been caused in its name (your paedophilia comment being a good example).

    But you have to remember that it's human beings that have not done a good job of interpreting the Word of God (Sony is definitely guilty of that), not The Bible itself. Of course, there are various aspects of The Bible that are frighteningly militant but that shows the power of God and are also stories and parables for people to learn from.

    The New Testament was a revision and a correction of previous misinterpretations, distilling the essence down to what's important but unfortunately, man has been misreading and misrepresenting the Word of God throughout history. It is humanity's arrogant self-belief that leads it into making all these mistakes and as Iraq is proving, we're continuing to make them.

    If I may stray from the subject for a moment. In the same way that a muslim would argue that the Korran does not say "go and blow people up in the name of God", I would say Christianity is about love, tolerance, understanding and eventual salvation of one's soul. But some PEOPLE would still mistake that for hate, animosity and militant actions.

    I agree with "Genji" in that we all need to get on and respect one another. You cannot go about in society these days not respecting others, that's simply heading towards mistrust, hate and anarchy.

    Generally speaking:

    The point about muslims, is to say that churches and Christianity are always picked on. No mosque has been blown up in a game or had a fire-fight in it or had it's dome destroyed with an RPG. So why should Sony allow Insomniac to have a fire-fight in a house of God that is ONLY for prayer, contemplation and reflection?

    Never mind the building, whether it looks like Manchester Cathedral or not, never mind what the CoE said about suing Sony and that they had no permission. The VERY FACT that a scene was based in a church which is used for prayer and salvation IS NOT RIGHT.

    Never mind the fact that it's a sci-fi game and is fictitious. The VERY act of desecrating the church, Christians would find unacceptable. Why choose it as a location? Why not a real hospital? Or better still, why didn't Sony just make the church an abandoned building (not even a religious zealot would hang around for the Chimera aliens to blast them into oblivion) and make the leading soldier character go into the church, look around, say a prayer and ask for strength to beat the Chimera? I'd settle for him looking upwards (as if talking to God) and say some wise-crack like: "Well, if You're up there, now's the time to come help us out a little..." or something like that? Why not portray the church and religion as a whole, FOR ONCE, in a positive light? Or better still, just leave it out altogether?!

    To be honest, I find the Right Reverend's comments about films and other media following a code of conduct to be very blinkered. There's plenty of equal desecration in films (take your pick: The Omen, War Of The Worlds, Face Off, Silver Bullet, The Exorcist, Stigmata, End Of Days etc.) So I don't know what he's on about there.

    The Pet Shop Boys wrote a song about "DJ Culture", where politicians "sampled" attitudes and comments from the past, that others had made, without doing their own research into them and finding out the true meaning of those bygone statements; they just used them to justify their position, actions or took them as being historically accurate.

    I see a great deal of DJs in this debate...

  • zedzee #67 4 years ago

    @ Kill_Crazy:

    With respect to your comments, your interpretation is incorrect. I'm just trying to defend my religion (as The Bible asks of me) and making my point of view (as everyone else is) heard here and anywhere else, where I find something that I have faith and belief in being attacked.

    I wouldn't say I'm knowledgeable or trying to be important. I'm just writing from the heart and if that comes across as anything but sincere, I apologise, because it's not meant as anything but that.

    I appreciate that respect cannot be forced, it needs to be earned, and we are all human beings here, with our own expectations and rights to be respected or at the very least tolerated, as long as those rights do not offend others or attack others of different beliefs.

    Christianity relies upon those who practice it to uphold its principals and beliefs - I believe that those aspects are being attacked by Sony and the CoE with their comments/views are not doing a good job of simply defending their faith, which is what they should stick to.

    I've integrated into British society from an early age but I'm also very proud of my cultural heritage and religious beliefs, so I've tried to integrate the best of both worlds as best as I can. God knows I've not been successful in total and I still struggle with certain aspects, but that's the whole point; the struggle to make yourself better and believe in something greater and have faith is what it's all about for me.

  • Kryon #68 4 years ago

    @Zedzee

    The New Testament was a revision and a correction of previous misinterpretations, distilling the essence down to what's important but unfortunately, man has been misreading and misrepresenting the Word of God throughout history. It is humanity's arrogant self-belief that leads it into making all these mistakes.

    I'm sorry mate but you are deluded, brainwashed into believing this nonsense. The Bible is an old book written by a person to control other people. Nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with the word of God. Who 'revised' the Bible? It wasn't God, it was some silly old fool (just like the person who wrote it in the first place). Believing in the Bible is the same as believing in werewolves, zombies or goblins.

    Religion causes too much death, pain and war. It is not a good thing. A convert I am not.

    /mocks

  • Kryon #69 4 years ago

    If a person told you that they believed in zombies, goblins, fairies, werewolves, the eye of sauron and the ghost busters you would think that person was a total nut case, but because the numbers who believe in God are large, it is somehow seen as normal and 'sane' ... I think not, it's the same thing.

    Bunch of deluded looney's imo.

  • deepspacefox #70 4 years ago

    "The New Testament was a revision and a correction of previous misinterpretations, distilling the essence down to what's important"

    No it wasn't.

    It was the newly formed Church (after kicking the shit out of the Pagans by calling them heretics and waging wars against them) sitting down and sifting through the many gospels that had been written. Leaving in anything that re-inforced the belief that Jesus was the messiah, and leaving out anything that said he wasn't.

    The gospel of Mary Magdalene, and the Gnostic gospels, along with many others, were left out for this reason alone. This a historical fact.

    RESEARCH YOUR RELIGION!

    Christianity, and its offshoots, were the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet.

    By the way, I sent the Bishop of Manchester an email when he started harping on about this, asking why he wasn't complaining about a recent episode of Dr Who that had a final battle in a church. Never got a reply.

  • zedzee #71 4 years ago

    @ deepspacefox:

    What I meant was, with Jesus, the testament's old rules - an eye for an eye, for example, were no longer valid. He showed that there was a better way, who's message is sadly lost on the various misled souls here.

    By the way, I'm sure that you will find that e-mailing your elected councilor or Prime Minister, would gt you the same non-response or an automated reply. So nothing new there...

    @ Kryon:

    You are obviously referring to the various English, Roman and Latin translations and I'm betting you've seen blasphemous films, such as The Da Vinci Code a few times.

    These are modern translations of the original version that was written in a language that was originally spoken in that whole Middle East region. It was a kind of trading language, used by many tribes and nations at the time.

    That original version in that original language predates all the faulse so-called gospels that came after from various dubious sources. The very fact that you use them to contest something that you do not believe in, should entail you NOT believing in them either, surely? I would've thought that would have been obvious...

    Over & Out.

  • deepspacefox #72 4 years ago

    "He showed that there was a better way, who's message is sadly lost on the various misled souls here."

    And most modern Christians who organise anti-gay marches instead of 'loving thy neighbour as thyself'.

    And lets not forget the child-abusing ministers.

    If the Bishop of Manchester was a 'true' Christian he would have forgiven Sony straight away instead of going down the publicly outraged path.

    BTW you may consider The DaVinci Code blasphemous, but it doesn't make its history lesson any less true.

    Christianity's hands are stained with blood so much I don't know how someone can be proud to be a Christian.

    Hell, the Church of England was only founded cos Henry wanted a divorce!

    Just to make my position clear. I do believe Jesus existed (and that he was a very brave man), I just don't believe he was the son of Jahweh.

  • Kryon #73 4 years ago

    @Zedzee

    I can say I've honestly never seen The Da Vinci Code, mainly because Tom Hanks put me off (he was good in the 80's...well I liked 'BIG' when I was 6 or 7 anyway) but on the subject of movies, I did like that scene in 'The Passion of teh Jesuslol" when they whipped the fool with nailed razor whip things, it was great (not as good as Saw3 though)...

    Anyway my friend, my point is, religion is the biggest cause of war death and rape Hence is not a good thing...You don't really seem to be able to give a response to this, even though I've said it multiple times?

    I wonder why? Is it perhaps because religious folk are indoctrinated, brainwashed from birth to follow a certain code (dictated by a frigging fictional storybook?). You listen to (and 'believe') the parts you have been trained to like and ignore the bloody truth of the matter. This in itself is why religion is a bad thing.