Child's Play Comments by Dan Whitehead

I played Build-a-Bear Workshop on DS recently (not mine) - it was surprisingly alright. I get that from a lot of games aimed at children, I'm never fussy about something seeming formulaeic if it's half-decent.

Should have had the picture of that 13 year old Alfie, Karen Matthews and their baby all playing on Saints Row 2.

villageofthedamnedlol

A brilliant article. Well done for finally appreciating that different games are targeted at different audiences. It's about time they stopped being lunped into the same category all the time. The mainstream media still like to think of gaming as a kids thing. While the specialist gaming media think that no one exists other than hardcore gamers. This was the major flaw when Eurogamer reviewed last year's Bond game. It's obvious when playing it that it's not designed to be a COD4 beater. It's designed to appeal to those who love Bond, mainly young kids, who probably loved the game more than any Bond game since Goldeneye.

Exams are too easy?! You're kidding me, right?

Back when i was a youngster, all we had to play with was dirt.....an even that had to be shared....

Dirt? DIRT????

We couldn't afford dirt. We came in from school half an hour after our bedtime, and were lucky to get to play with our food.

Half an hour after bedtime? Luxury.

We used to come home from school and then have to work six hours down t'pit before being sent to bed with a lump of coal to suck on.

Nobody plays games laying on their front like that... If you elbows don't start killing, your neck or stomach will.

This is all very true and as UltimateWarrior says, it's about time someone realised that kids games shouldn't be reviewed with the same criteria as 'grown-ups' games.
Even though she has completed it more times than I care to imagine, my daughter still loves playing Disney Princess Enchanted Journey on Wii. Having played it with her (it has a drop-in-and-out co-op system) I'm certain that any mainstream review would have scathed it but it appeals to everything she wants from a game. And she was happy to trade the awful Cooking Mama against it too, which shows she has *some* taste. :)

Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts is a great game for children, let down in a couple of areas. My son (4) adores the game and plays it anytime he can (Yes, it has a 7+ rating, but for the life of me I can't work out why that is). However the game is spoiled a little by its assumption that its players can read. All of the dialog has the standard Rare thing of text on screen, accompanied by generic grunting noises by the character - if they had recorded dialog, younger children (or those with learning difficulties) would still be able to understand the challenge instructions. However, given the amount of dialog and perhaps their reluctance to put a specific voice to characters to have up to now only grunted, I can understand why they didn't make that choice.

Its biggest flaw however is how easy it is to lose all of your savegame progress. Whenever you start the game you have a choice between starting a new game or continuing with your current save. Selecting a new game will delete all your progress and there's only one save slot. The console has a whole fucking hard drive and there's only one save slot.

Needless to say, when you have a four year old playing the game who can't read, he occasionally selects the wrong option. After losing all our progress several times I had to buy one of the shockingly expensive xbox memory cards to make backups of the savegame on. Grrr.

Great article. I agree with most of your observations. However my 8 year old has slightly more discerning tastes when it comes to licensed games, he has cottoned on to the fact that 'most' of them are pretty hopeless.

First things he will ask before picking up a new game:

Is it 2 player?
Can I go anywhere I want?
Has it got stupid controls? (this is how he refers to waggle based stuff:)

As you mentioned he loves unlocking stuff. He wants to be ale to play as many different characters as possible and he likes to be able to just explore without being beaten to a pulp by over eager AI.

The absolute worst example of a development team who don't understand their target audience are Sonic Team. My son loves sonic but hates to play the games unless a sucker like me has been through and unlocked it all first. They are just too hard, and not good hard. Like you say, he will happily chip away at games like Little Big Planet, Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers but the Sonic games are just all over the shop in terms of an enjoyable difficulty curve.

Last word on Little Big Planet. he is a couple of years older than your boy by the sounds of it Dan, but some of the stuff he has created in LBP has made my jaw drop. Mainly contraptions admittedly, he doesn;t have the skill to string it all together as a complete level but it's impressive none the less.

THOSE KIDS ARE HOLDING PLAYSTATION CONTROLLERS OMG EG BIAS

@prettyboytim - the banjo game probably has the 7+ rating because as you say: the kid needs to be able to read. My nephew is 8 and i won't let him play zelda: twilight princess (12+ age rating). not because i don't think he has the skill to do it. but because i don't think at 8 he'd really understand what he has to do and where he has to go....even if there were voice-overs. hell, even i got stuck on it a couple of times :p

good article though :)

I thought
kids only played GTA these days...

Actually it's amazing to see how much enjoyment an observed youngster can have with a game like GTA or Saints Row. they love the freedom and just pootle about. Evil actions don't really occur to them.

jonsaan: he enjoys Alien Hominid but finds Sonic too hard?!

@ Jonsaan: "Has it got stupid controls? (this is how he refers to waggle based stuff:)"

Youngest troll ever?

great article. Esp with the game length debacle. Why ARE people so obsessed with hours of play? COD4, short but oh so sweet.

My thoughts on the difficulty of games.

If a high level of difficulty adds to the fun the target audience has when playing the game, it is absolutely valid. And if for another title a high difficulty detracts from the fun the target audience has when playing the game, it is absolutely valid to remove or reduce it.

Its a shame that it ever becomes a matter of "being tough enough" or being "a proper gamer", when such things are really completely irrelevant.

I play games 'cos they are fun. If I want to prove my manliness I go armwrestling sailors down the docks or bare fist fighting in my local gypsy encampment.

You get past 'Eugene's Lair' with all your lives intact, just to watch it start going down the Thomas Crapper.

It's very true that kids like repetition in games, I know people who will spend hours just creating Mii's.

@leftlion That's interesting, I lost patience with Twilight Princess long ago, yet my 8 yr old begs to play it, somehow loving to get turned over by the latest dungeon. He, like Dan's son, intrinsically understands the Lego games and can pick up on its language immediately.

I didn't think age ratings were goverened by accessibility or difficulty, purely content.

Good article by the way - far more interesting than something with a =RND(number) on the end.

Good piece,

it's amazing how much we tolerated as kids just because of the thrill of controlling something on screen -- I spent hours on Captain Planet on the Amiga. Maybe kids are more discerning now.

One thing I disagree on - "Few games make for good spectator sports". Some of the best times I've spent on videogames have been a group of us, sitting round taking turns on a one-player game (Zelda, GTA 3, Resi 4 stand out) and shouting advice Crystal Maze style.

I think the controls have a lot to do with it too - my 2 kids (5 & 7) loved Flower because it was so simple to play and had that collecting angle. They also love driving games, but are pretty rubbish at them.

@metalangel

Yes, weird but true:)

Bear in mind I have unlocked a lot of the Alien Hominid levels myself.

This article should be called 'Boys games' not 'Childs Play', the stuff girls enjoy playing is very different from pretty much everything described here.

"This article should be called 'Boys games' not 'Childs Play', the stuff girls enjoy playing is very different from pretty much everything described here."

Yes, thank god for girls and their cheap shitty choices for games.
"Here's CBeebies, knock yourself out for an afternoon on the same Flash-based game"

@Entity

You have a very weird view of the world. Maybe if you knew a few more girls it wouldn't be such a problem. Though your reference to CeeBeebies suggests that perhaps you are too young to have really crossed that initial hurdle, and still think girls are just for throwing snowballs at, in which case we can let it slide.

I know a few that could hand you your own arse in CounterStrike or Halo MP mind you.

@kangarootoo

Ugh, you pompous knob.
I'm 30, father of two younglings, couldn't give a shit for Counter Strike. Was just trying to... nvm... build up another wrong profile of someone.

Edit: Snowballs and pulling hair.
Mr Right-on~

Brilliant Article sir. Loved it. It would really be appreciated if 'more' research based articles are published here, on Eurogamer. Being a student of English Literature, I really find your articles very well researched which involves a thought process generally not seen in other web sites (Gamespot anyone?). You write about a game and analyze it in the same way I write about "Jonathan Swift'" or "Flaubert". Keep goin. Cheers!

Jonsaan

I am with you on this one - lil nephews love playing GTA IV - to ensure it is more child friendly I apply the following.

1) Supervise at all times - set custom tasks i.e. seeing if you can work together to find the jumps in the game.
2) Turn all Speech/sound effects off.
3) Play Jack Johnsons Sing-a-long songs and Lullabies (from Curious George) or something similair.
4) Ensure Nico has no weapons on him.
5) Dial 6255550100 for Race bike 6255550150 for Scrambler/motoX and 3595550100 for the helicopter - which should save you hours of time having to track down the aforementioned vehicles.

Reminds me of being a kid when games like Driller on the Spectrum or Hunter on the Amiga - i.e. go anywhere - they do love the freedom - probably even more than adults.

Nice article Dan even though I'm 33 and bratless I still try and understand kids love games to. But really, lets be honest here. children these days care not about quality if it has a name, neither do the parents/relative blindly buying this "toy" for little johnny/Jenny. No one cares for review, editorial, insight or quality oddly - just look at the charts.

It's a harsh truth about the mass market which we "hardcore" hate. The masses are stupid put a name on it or show a ad or give an image and make it fashionable and it will sell (well..a lot of the time).

scary truth is though we "hardcore" are actually no better than the "stupid" masses for names, images and fashion - hands up you bought a bad, dreadful, embarrasing game?

Anyway, serious question here to older gamers, is it me or are "children's" games getting dumber? Mrs bad09 will hate me for this but she always likes those animated movie tie-ins and "kiddie" stuff (although she plays Halo3 L4d PGR to name a few so Mrs bad09 has some gaming taste to!!) and I see a lot of it even though I have no kids. I have to say I was playing more interesting stuff as a youngster...

/ waves walking stick in the air "in my day games were games!"

Seriously though, I'm actually with jonsaan and BadBoyBonner, if I had kids I'd rather have SUPERVISED "grown up" games played than the crap they shove at kids these days.

/ sticks in dead space and makes a 7 year old play it "BE SCARED KID!!!!"

Nice article Dan even though I'm 33 and bratless I still try and understand kids love games to. But really, lets be honest here. children these days care not about quality if it has a name, neither do the parents/relative blindly buying this "toy" for little johnny/Jenny. No one cares for review, editorial, insight or quality oddly - just look at the charts.

I really don't think that's true. In my experience, adults are far more likely to persevere with a mediocre game. If a kid isn't enjoying a game, then they just stop playing. My son managed about thirty minutes playing Ratatouille. He stuck with Wall-E for a bit longer, but didn't grumble when it went on the trade-in pile. If these games fly up the charts it's because parents buy them for the name recognition, not because the kids are actually enjoying them.

Anyway, serious question here to older gamers, is it me or are "children's" games getting dumber? Mrs bad09 will hate me for this but she always likes those animated movie tie-ins and "kiddie" stuff (although she plays Halo3 L4d PGR to name a few so Mrs bad09 has some gaming taste to!!) and I see a lot of it even though I have no kids. I have to say I was playing more interesting stuff as a youngster...

I have to say, I think rose-tinted glasses are involved in this outlook. The best of today's kids games - the Lego titles, Nuts & Bolts etc - are far more complex and rewarding than their retro equivalents. Obviously, part of this is down to the increase in processor power enabling games to simply do more things, but it's also down to some developers taking kid's games seriously and actually investing thought and design into how they play. And that's only if you consider the games specifically marketed at kids. Like I said in the feature, most kids I know are drawn to other games regardless of the name on the box.

"I really don't think that's true. In my experience, adults are far more likely to persevere with a mediocre game. If a kid isn't enjoying a game, then they just stop playing. My son managed about thirty minutes playing Ratatouille. He stuck with Wall-E for a bit longer, but didn't grumble when it went on the trade-in pile. If these games fly up the charts it's because parents buy them for the name recognition, not because the kids are actually enjoying them."

Maybe being related to a games reviewer has rubbed off on your son and he has taste! Even Mrs bad09 was happy to offload Ratatouille! :) I think you are right there actually though, adults probably will persevere longer with mediocore games (especially the gamerscore whores).



"I have to say, I think rose-tinted glasses are involved in this outlook. The best of today's kids games - the Lego titles, Nuts & Bolts etc - are far more complex and rewarding than their retro equivalents. Obviously, part of this is down to the increase in processor power enabling games to simply do more things, but it's also down to some developers taking kid's games seriously and actually investing thought and design into how they play. And that's only if you consider the games specifically marketed at kids. Like I said in the feature, most kids I know are drawn to other games regardless of the name on the box."

You could be right about glasses TBH, besides I am 33 and these games, as you say, thay are clearly not for me anyway. I dunno though (obviously not talking graphics/hardware etc here) I can't help but think gaming was more"interesting" when I was a kid - I'm not saying better just more interesting and challenging. I remember as a kid playing the likes of head over heals, Jack The Nipper, Skool Daze, Paperboy, Arkanoid, The Hobbit all kind of interesting games. They all seem to be really dull platform collect 'em ups these days.

But yeah I suppose you are right back in the days of speccy you didn't really have that many "childrens" games - just games. Us kids played exactly what the adults did. It 's only when gaming "grew up" and we started getting more and more "mature" content that the games industry really started (and needed) to seperate childrens gaming IMO.

It could just be gaming has reached that point now where us old farts can do the whole " back in my day" thing but like I said before if/when I have kids I do think I'd be happier with them being supervised and educated about gaming so they can play the more "adult" stuff safely rather than playing the stuff I see for kids these days. Obivously I was joking about stuff like DS, but I do actually think something like BadBoyBonner's supervised GTA fun could be a blast for kids! :)

You could be right about glasses TBH, besides I am 33 and these games, as you say, thay are clearly not for me anyway. I dunno though (obviously not talking graphics/hardware etc here) I can't help but think gaming was more"interesting" when I was a kid - I'm not saying better just more interesting and challenging. I remember as a kid playing the likes of head over heals, Jack The Nipper, Skool Daze, Paperboy, Arkanoid, The Hobbit all kind of interesting games. They all seem to be really dull platform collect 'em ups these days.

I think that a lot of genres have merged over the years, so that where once there were clearer boundaries you're now more likely to find games with elements of platforming, adventure games and fighting/shooting all in one 3D world, even in kid's titles. Bully does everything that Skool Daze did, and - heresy! - does it better, just by virtue of the fact that the world of the game is larger, more varied and more interactive. And I think his attachment to N+ and Castle Crashers suggests that the game design that worked in 1984 still works today.

And I've actually made a point of not letting my job influence my son. He's probably benefited from being exposed to more games than most kids, but I've never once told him what I think of the games he plays. I let him make his own mind up, and he's proved incredibly useful when it comes to reviewing games aimed at his age group. Spider-Man: Friend or Foe, for example. I thought the demo was arse, but he and his friends loved it. Once I played it through their eyes, the repetitive combat was accessible rather than boring, and the linear levels prevented frustration setting in. They loved all the characters and the quips - "Incey wincey spider's going to web you in the face" became quite a catchphrase.

It was then that I realised that different standards needed to be applied. Not lower standards, just different. A wonky camera might be an annoyance in a grown-up's game, but it can be a game killer for kids. Equally, mashing the X and Y buttons to plough through dozens of enemies will be tedious to adults, but exciting and empowering to kids.

@ DanWhitehead

"Bully does everything that Skool Daze did, and - heresy! - does it better, just by virtue of the fact that the world of the game is larger, more varied and more interactive."

OK I'm now picking up Bully!!!!!

"It was then that I realised that different standards needed to be applied. Not lower standards, just different. A wonky camera might be an annoyance in a grown-up's game, but it can be a game killer for kids. Equally, mashing the X and Y buttons to plough through dozens of enemies will be tedious to adults, but exciting and empowering to kids. "

Yeah you're right, as adults it is hard to step away from a game a look at it from the view of people it's aimed at. Hell we gamers have trouble doing that with the "mature" games a lot of the time! :)

Oh BTW, glad you're job doesn't influence your son, that way when he's older he can laugh at your DS review. I haven't forgot that one Whitehead! ;)

Great articule. Kudos