Cage defends Madison striptease scene

By Tom Bramwell Published 27 August, 2009

"I do whatever it takes to tell my story."

Quantic Dream's David Cage has defended the scene in Heavy Rain in which player-character Madison Paige strips for a nightclub owner, arguing that during its E3 showing it succeeded in its goal of making the player "uncomfortable".

During the scene, Madison discovers that the club owner only has eyes for the girls pole-dancing near to where he's sitting, and the player is given the option to retire to the restrooms to doll her up, before gyrating provocatively to catch his attention.

Having done so, Madison and the owner retire to a private room and she uses a weapon in her purse to extort information from him. However, in the choice-and-consequence world of Heavy Rain, things can go very wrong.

"It was received in a very interesting way. I think with this game we go from discovery to discovery," he told Eurogamer during gamescom last week. "We had a couple of people who felt uncomfortable watching the scene, which is perfect because this is exactly what we wanted.

"You can't pretend to trigger different types of emotions and just focus on adrenaline and fright and competition and frustration. You need to go through different emotions, and showing this scene in particular was for us a test to see if we can make people feel like Madison, having to get naked to do a striptease in front of this ugly guy, and obviously it worked because people felt very uncomfortable.

"You know, when we thought people would just enjoy getting her naked and have this teenage kind of feel, in fact no, they really felt like they were Madison and they felt very uneasy."

Asked whether videogames perhaps have to learn to walk before they can run when it comes to difficult adult events, particularly given the potential for the situation the scene describes to become sexually violent, Cage said that he would not censor himself in order to avoid controversy.

"If you want to do toys for kids with videogames, then you certainly shouldn't do that, but if you intend to do an adult experience for a mature audience, then there's nothing you can't do, and you should certainly not count on me to censor myself, and say I can't do this or don't want to do that because it's too sensitive or too controversial or whatever.

"I do whatever it takes to tell my story, and I hope people will enjoy it, but I'm not playing safe things here, I'm trying things, I'm exploring new ground, and I hope people will appreciate that."

Heavy Rain is due out exclusively for PlayStation 3 next year, and you'll be able to read our gamescom impressions early next week (yes, I've finally written it up!). In the meantime, check out our other gamescom stories about Cage's response to the question of quick-time events, or look in on our most recent hands-on preview with a wonky URL.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (42) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Buztafen #1 3 years ago

    STRIP STRIP STRIP STRIP STRIP! WOOOOOOO!! \o/

    /ahem

  • ChthonicEcho #2 3 years ago

    "I do whatever it takes to tell my story."

    Including sexual intercourse with a corpse and incorporeal robots from the future? Yeah, I figured.

  • wizlon #3 3 years ago

    Adult videogames that don't just centre around blood and violence. Sign me up!

  • Monkey_Chops #4 3 years ago

    Just by going on what the previews say, I imagine there must be some sort of context to the striptease which Cage does not want to compromise. For that, I say right-on. If we want games to be taken seriously, then we need to push boundaries a little bit every now and then.

    I remember that mission in GTA IV where Niko helped kidnap and tie up that mob girl. The cutscene/misogyny in the cutscenes for that game made me feel really uncomfortable, but in the context of the story, it made sense. I'm playing a thug and that's how thugs behave. Movies show it all the time, but I'm glad I felt uncomfortable about it. It shows I'm not a wannabe rapist. I think and hope that Heavy Rain keeps it all in context - i.e. it's based on choice and that I can circumvent that scene if I so choose.

  • RexRunti #5 3 years ago

    I agree with pretty much everything he says in this article. Of course I'm not sure if I agree with his methods and there's also the danger that if I find the game too uncomfortable I'll just stop playing.

  • Fab4 #6 3 years ago

    What? No pictures? Pfft!

  • JahB #7 3 years ago

    Dragon's Lair - now with boob physics!!

  • DrDamn #8 3 years ago

    I think it could be the Heavy Rain ends up being ground breaking in these ways. However I'm still not convinced that discussions around the game and what it does will not end up more being interesting than actually playing it.

  • Farfarer #9 3 years ago

    Being able to make players uncomfortable in a game situation can only be a good thing. Games should make players question themselves and be able to reflect their own humanity back at them. The interactive medium has the potential to do this more than any other medium out there and so few games even try to let alone succeed. We're behind you Cage :)

  • Edwin #10 3 years ago

    anybody else getting a bit bored of these snippets about this game, I have alot of interest but it seems everyday we have a pointless article about something pointless.

  • actionfitz #11 3 years ago

    "I do whatever it takes to tell my story, and I hope people will enjoy it, but I'm not playing safe things here, I'm trying things, I'm exploring new ground, and I hope people will appreciate that."

    I'd like to buy him a pint :)

  • skillian #12 3 years ago

    @Farfarer

    Yes, I'm sure the striptease scene was inserted in order to reflect the player's humanity back at themselves. Not to get some tits in the game.

  • Shadders #13 3 years ago

    "arguing that during its E3 showing it succeeded in its goal of making the player "uncomfortable". "

    That's actually really cool, very few games have any emotional impact on the player, so I say thumbs up to Mr Cage.

  • Miths #14 3 years ago

    So if damn near every hostile encounter in this game can "go very wrong" and end up with the character dead but no game over screen, what happens when I've fumbled my way through quick time events and managed to get all four(?) characters killed within the first hour of the game?
    Do I get a game over screen then or do I keep playing as ghosts?

  • JonFE #15 3 years ago

    Well, I will *certainly* be very uncomfortable if during said striptease scene the missus walks in...

    EDIT: +1 @ Monkey_Chops for that GTA IV reference.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/09 @ 15:45

  • owl #16 3 years ago

    he said in an edge interview that you can't get them all killed before about two-thirds of the way into the game or something, but after that, yep, it's game over bucko

  • peak_performance #17 3 years ago

    Seems like a scene from a teenage fantasy and not mature at all tbh. I'm thinking I would be uncomfortable more in the way of "I can't believe he put this wankfest in here" than "Shit, what am I doing". Scenes like it is what makes me call Cage a pretentious twat (other scenes seem good at least).

    It is good that he does what he likes though, I don't like it when writers and producers compromise to fulfil another vision than their own.

    Edit: "Geek masses in "getting uncomfortable when woman strips" shocker."

    Lol.
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/09 @ 15:48

  • Xerx3s #18 3 years ago

    "Quantic Dream's David Cage has defended the scene in Heavy Rain in which player-character Madison Paige strips for a nightclub owner, arguing that during its E3 showing it succeeded in its goal of making the player "uncomfortable". "


    Geek masses in "getting uncomfortable when woman strips" shocker.

  • RedSparrows #19 3 years ago

    'Seems like a scene from a teenage fantasy and not mature at all tbh. I'm thinking I would be uncomfortable more in the way of "I can't believe he put this wankfest in here" than "Shit, what am I doing". Scenes like it is what makes me call Cage a pretentious twat (other scenes seem good at least).'

    Well that's reflecting on you as is. Why is it pretentious, exactly? It might not be quite done right, or is aiming in the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean it's worth calling someone that.

  • Marijn #20 3 years ago

    @Cynics:

    Come on guys, don't you think it's a bit facile of you to dismiss Cage's words out of hand? I mean, I agree that Fahrenheit's ending was flawed, to say the least, but I think we should applaud someone who tries to advance videogames as a storytelling medium instead of making intellectually lazy jokes about it.

    And besides, Fahrenheit had a lot of fantastic bits too. I mean, you could have responded with: "says the guy who made the game where you start having to cover up a murder you don't even remember having committed."

  • peak_performance #21 3 years ago

    "Well that's reflecting on you as is. Why is it pretentious, exactly? It might not be quite done right, or is aiming in the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean it's worth calling someone that."

    Basically pretentious because the way I hear him talk is as if he is making the most mature project the gaming industry has seen, when I see scenes that seem straight out of direct-to-DVD movies such as "Resurrection" and "Fair Game", which to me is more like a darker teenage story than a mature one. Sex and murder storys aren't automatically mature (no, not even if they are more mature than most of the stories gaming has offered).

    Granted, I've seen scenes from the game that are better than this strip/torture one and the very mediocre car recycling station fight and hopefully those good scenes are just a handful out of many in the full game. But he should calm down and not try to make himself appear as gamings Kurosawa or Bergman.

    Edit: Mature storytelling/settings in games done right so far: Silent Hill games, Killer 7, Fallout (the first), Alpha Centauri, perhaps The Path. Cage isn't not the only one working the srz angle...
    Edited by 1 at 27/08/09 @ 16:11

  • Eighthours #22 3 years ago

    I hope that in context the scene makes sense. I'm still most worried about Cage's writing ability, tbh.

  • cianchristopher #23 3 years ago

    It seems every article about this game has terms like "Cage rants" and "Cage defends" (while using aggressive language!). It seems poor old Mr. Cage is suffering from a siege mentality of some sorts. Is he actually being attacked by the press, or is he just the argumentative dickhead that he comes across as in the press?

    Maybe its just the way I'm viewing it (through Eurogamer's lens), but this guy seems like a complete f**king tool!

    You don't see other top-tier developers like Gabe Newell, Miyamoto-san, Rob Pardo etc. "ranting & raving" all the time, do you? Or maybe I just missed them doing it!

  • Kenshin001 #24 3 years ago

    He should include a section where you have to fellate the nightclub owner. That would be really uncomfortable. Especially when the wife walks in while you are playing it.

  • OllyJ #25 3 years ago

    I just hope it's more like the excellent first half of Farenheit and not the latter utterly bobbins half.

    Definately one of my most anticipated titles.

  • robg #26 3 years ago

    @Olly
    You get +1 from me for using the word bobbins. Bravo!

  • rudedudejude #27 3 years ago

    This article is useless without pics.

  • schnide #28 3 years ago

    This is going to be completely cringeworthy.

    Cage says he can tell a story which will have you, as a (likely) male player, empathise with a female character undertaking a striptease in a videogame. This will supposedly be both a worthy story, and interactive.

    This is the same man who has so far failed every single time to find the words to convey how the game actually plays.

  • Razorus #29 3 years ago

    To be honest, this kind of content in mature games is the way forward, especially for storytelling and investing emotionally in character progression. If things like this can become more advanced in games, they will perhaps match the film industry for artistic integrity.
    So long as the scene in question isn't just for the sake of showing flesh. I expect other adult themes in Heavy Rain to compliment this.

  • sarcasmoidosis #30 3 years ago

    Murder, racism, stealing, cursing are all mature content. Yet, nobody makes a fuss about it (well, almost nobody). But if there's a boob, all hell breaks loose, which is silly.

    My take on this is that i want mature content, but I want it to be presented to me in a mature manner. Heavy Rain does that. Dragon's Age on the other hand... Let's just say that promoting a game as the "new s**t" and hinting you'll be boning lots of women is not my idea of mature. Quite the opposite actually.

  • gaselite #31 3 years ago

    His rationale is all well and good but I'm reluctant to pass any definite judgement until I see the scene in question. It could go either way really, and potentially be very hamfisted.

    The problem with writing and games is you have people from a games background trying to write and it just doesn't really work because they don't have the skill or the technical ability. Most of it ends up being pulpy and utterly disposable, and even that which is more highly regarded than most other games (think GTA series) is highly derivative. I don't really blame them because if I came from a strictly videogame background that's probably exactly the sort of thing I'd write too. There are exceptions obviously (Bioshock was a clever example of how to marry good writing and interesting ideas with the unique medium - even to the point of somewhat ballsy satire that went over a lot of heads - which can be a delicate balancing act) but the industry really needs to start to bring in strong outside writing talent more often, and I'm not talking about bloody sci-fi/glorified fanfic writers. A game with George Pelecanos or Dennis Lehane on the writing team, of this type or any other? It'd be nice, but unlikely in my lifetime.

  • mukki #32 3 years ago

    ok point made....

    again blowing people's heads off is fine but stripping is not wtf...

  • MeBrains #33 3 years ago

    striptease?! :o

    still not interested

  • Demiath #34 3 years ago

    Just finished Fahrenheit and the sex scenes in that game felt silly and unnecessary (the whole "Lucas Kane gives his ex-girlfriend the God of War treatment" was particularly laughable).

  • almighty-slayer #35 3 years ago

    I signed up especially to post this...

    [link url=http://www .break.com/usercontent/2009/7/heavy-rain-presentation-e3-200 9-madison-striptease-808524.html
    ]http://ww w.break.com/usercontent/2009/7/...[/link]

    Very crappy mobile phone footage of the scene in question. Does that help? :p

  • UncleLou #36 3 years ago

    Maybe its just the way I'm viewing it (through Eurogamer's lens), but this guy seems like a complete f**king tool!

    You don't see other top-tier developers like Gabe Newell, Miyamoto-san, Rob Pardo etc. "ranting & raving" all the time, do you?

    I do see you ranting about someone who is ranting and raving though.

  • busboy33 #37 3 years ago

    It's not the concept of the scene as a dramatic device that bothered me . . . it was the implementation of the bathroom section that threw me off.

    Madison goed into the bathroom, looks in the mirror. Multiple context sensitive options pop up to sex her up.
    Select "lipstick". She pulls it out of her perse, then I have to slowly and carefully roll the thumbstick to make sure I'm applying it properly. Make sure to zoom in on the lips so I can really focus on them
    Select "blouse". Unbutton the blouse a bit. Again, camera zoom in on the slowly exposing flesh.
    Select "skirt". Carefully use the controller to tear the skirt to show more thigh. *RIP* more thigh, *RIP* more thigh, *RIP* more thigh . . .
    Select "mascara". Work to plump up those lashes. Look at the eyes, slowly, slowly . . .

    THIS ISN'T PLAYING A GAME. If the sexing-up is necessary to the story, why am I minutely controlling each behavior? It really seened like the focus wasn't on advancing the plot but on relishing the slow process controlling the transformation from "woman" to "slut". There was no narrative benefit I saw to dragging it out . . . it came off as far too fetishistic.

    If I had to have my character eat a hamburger, having to pull the trigger to grasp it, lift the sixaxis to raise it to my mouth, tilt the controller to take a bite, then press "X" rhymthically to chew followed by "square" to swallow . . . why? The sub-division of the action into little bits doesn't enhance the gameplay, unless you're reeeeeeealy into close-ups of watching somebody chew food.

    I suppose you could argue its "realistic" in that the overall action is actually a series of discrete actions combined, but again what's the point? When I walk forward in a game, I don't have to alternate button presses to move each leg independently unless the developer thinks that that's where the fun of controlling the game lies, that I as a player WANT to experience that action in minute detail. The bathroom scene seemed like the goal for the programmers wasn't to make the player feel like Madison . . . it was to give the player some very creepy domination control titilation, and the presenter's vocal narration of the on-screen action didn't help ("now our lips are plumper . . . it is better . . . but not enough, we must do more . . . what next? . . . yes, the blouse . . .";).

  • Bazfrag #38 3 years ago

    "Murder, racism, stealing, cursing are all mature content." Swearing has NEVER been mature. Its purile. As for the others, i think hell would freeze over before they are handled in any other way than a typical Uve Boll D-movie teen guffaw fest. Racism? I doubt any publisher would even touch it. As far as mature content goes, the industry needs to grow some balls and do it properly. There are only a few exeptions thus far.
    Edited by 4 at 28/08/09 @ 08:18

  • Marijn #39 2 years ago

    @ busboy33:

    The point of letting you control all of that, and indeed, the point of the entire stripping scene is to make you feel completely responsible for every little decision Madison makes. The "eating a hamburger" analogy is off, because eatiing is not a very deliberate process, whereas making every part of the "tarting up" a discrete action (ideally) emphasises the fact that Madison goes further and further to achieve her goals. The point, as Cage has implied, is to sell the character.

    And this implied psychological depth is what, potentially, makes the game mature. These are damaged characters whose values and belief systems are tested because of the events in the game.

    The presenter of the scene sounds totally creepy, though. Thankfully, he won't be present in-game.

  • Zebula77 #40 2 years ago

    It's great to hear him say these things. I'm definitely one that likes when games (or artistic mediums in general) push the envelope and explore the boundaries, and this game looks to do just that.

    Down with cencorship! :p

  • m0thr4 #41 2 years ago

    "Cage defends Madison striptease scene"

    Defends? Against whom? The article never mentions who attacked him for this scene in the first place.

    It sounds as if this Cage guy is trying to whip up his own controversy to generate some media interest because, at present, this game is definitely the sound of one hand clapping.
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/09 @ 14:47

  • busboy33 #42 2 years ago

    @Marjim:

    But I'm NOT making decisions -- I'm cycling through the choices (at least it appeared that way from the video fo the demo).
    I don't pick the shade of lipstick. Once I apply the lipstick, the choice disappeared, so I can't choose to do it 2, 3, 4 times. I don't decide how high to rip the hemline. I don't choose how many buttons to open on the blouse. I'm not choosing how far she goes with each action . . . I'm deciding whether she does them at all.

    almighty-slayer in #38 posted a link to the actualy striptease video (I had never seen it before). Hard to see with the quality of the video, but it looked like after the nice man pointed a gun at me and told me to get busy, I would have to gently rock the DS3 back and forth to animate the swaying of her hips.
    I'm not choosing how far Madison goes by minutely controlling her hips. I can see choosing to strip, screaming, refusing, attacking, etc. as valid narrative choices, but if I choose to comply, why am I responsible for rocking her hips? I doubt I have the choice of really throwing it back and forth, then flipping it up and down to do a disco dance -- I'm choosing to engage in a preset action.

    To me eating is an example of discrete action because I choose to do it or not do it. But choosing to eat ends the player choice because the implementation of that choice is standard and honestly not very fun.

    The HR video with the guy in the auto-yard: I can choose to use my magic glasses to view a clue, but I don't have to mime putting them on. want to break the window? Choose "break window", not "pull foot back, slam forward, then pull back again, slam forward, etc."

    I'm being unfair because I"ve only seen some video -- no hands-on time, and maybe it really does ofer that level of impactful control and immersion. I'll be pleasantly suprised if it does, but for now I'm uncomfortable/