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Buying MMO gold is like funding prostitution News
PC MMO News by Robert Purchese
RuneScape content boss Imre Jele says that those of you buying MMO currency are effectively funding digital organised crime, not to mention cheating and ruining the experience for everyone else.
Speaking exclusively to Eurogamer about the growing problem of illegal real-world trading, Jele said, "The biggest concern about illegal real-world trading is - sorry for this example as I know it's not politically correct - it's a bit like prostitution.
"It's not necessarily the prostitution which is a problem, although you might have moral problems with it. The real problem is the organised crime that's built around prostitution; the human trafficking, the drugs, etc.
"And that's the same with illegal real-world trading. The problem comes in when they start doing other illegal activities. One of the biggest is the use of stolen credit cards," he added.
Apparently players can make more in-game gold if they shell out for a GBP 3.20 monthly subscription. This puts a huge financial burden on developer Jagex and carries significant legal ramifications as well.
RuneScape is a web-based massively-multiplayer online role-playing game that boasts around 6 million active players around the world. It recently took measures to stamp out real-world trading by banning unbalanced trades where one person typically gives another a pile of gold or a valuable item for nothing in return - because they have paid for it in real-life.
The results have been very positive, according to Imre Jele, but he is at a loss as to why more do not follow his example but continue to provide a breeding ground for the multi-million-pound illegal real-world trading business.
"I have friends all over the industry and I know they don't try do anything about this, which to me is shocking," continued Jele. "It seems to me that the bigger half of the MMO industry puts their heads under the sand and pretends like it is not happening."
He feels real-world trading is out of control, and that even the likes of Blizzard with World of Warcraft will get to a point where it cannot control the amounts of money changing hands illegally.
To beat it, the nature of MMOs will have to change. Imre Jele believes new persistent worlds will be designed with real-world trading in mind. And one option available is to simply make your experience so much fun that no one feels the need to "cheat" the grind in the first place.
"To be honest, I think instead of real-world trading, games have to be designed in a way that they provide enough fun while you are getting somewhere; if I am incapable of providing you with enough fun while you collect that 1000 gold for a steed, then the game is not good enough," concluded Jele.
Look out for our full interview with Imre Jele soon.
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Comments: 1-33 of 33 in total
Poster
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Most people don't realise the criminal element involved in gold selling. The gold sellers are not in the business of actually farming the gold themselves, that is carried out by separate companies set up in low wage countries. The gold sellers purchase the gold from whichever farmer has the cheapest price, and then mark it up 50% before offering it to players.
To conduct their transactions the sellers have to use fresh accounts, for which they use stolen credit card data and hacked "real" accounts, because it's simply cheaper for them to do so,and gold selling is a great way of laundering cash. The farmers on the other hand want to be more legitimate since they have to level characters up to obtain gold and don't want them deleted because of dodgy account info.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 04/02/08 @ 16:20
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optimusprym8
04/02/08 @ 16:34
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one of the most annoying things about MMOs is the general chat channel being filled with spam for gold seller websites, lucky most have options which channels you want to see text from but then that stops the social side of things a little. the gold farming documentary made me feel ill, just another sweatshop we support.
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If developers really want to stamp out illegal gold-selling then by far the easiest and most effective method would be to just sell the gold themselves, thereby undercutting the illegal sellers. There, problem solved. Now stop whining.
Of course removing the boring grind from future MMOs would be an even better solution, as he says himself. Here's hoping. |
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the_dudefather
04/02/08 @ 16:38
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@Schiraman
then the real life cash -> in game advantage situation becomes worse |
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The gold fed into the economy also affects in-game prices: On my WoW server stacks of 20 copper bars - easily made by a level 5 char - sells for 2-3 gold. Normal price would probably been 20-40 silver (where 100s = 1g).
Of course, as a miner I make money, but it's the principle of the thing. What is stranger is that AFAIK most trade professions that need metal - blacksmithing, engineering and jewelcrafting - take mining anyway. So the only reason they don't go and get copper themselves is either that they are lazo or they have more in-game currency than time to grind the metal. |
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@schiraman
Or you do like Sony and hire the gold seller management to help "develop" online gaming. EVE has a system for buying in game and it still doesn't stop gold sellers. The only way an MMO company can undercut them is to artificially introduce gold and items into the eonomy. That has its own problems as adding gold devalues every item in game, and handing out gear for $$$ is a disincentive to people to actually play the content. Right now I'd say WoW has the best solution with the daily quests that allow raiders to cover their expenses and more casual types to earn enough gold and badges over time to get epic gear. |
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Paying taxes funds foreign wars. And heck, since a small portion of government funds is embezzled, stolen or illegally claimed by groups or companies, PAYING TAXES FUNDS EVERYTHING EVIL.
There's no excuse for tedious grinding though - at least real-life miners provide coal for heating/economy/progress before they splutter to a halt. Such virtual achievement is scant. |
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dirtysteve
04/02/08 @ 16:59
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Well, the comment about eliminating the tedious farming of gold was both spot on, and tellingly buried at the bottom of the article.
I think we all know that there isn't goin to be a fundamental change in the mmo genre, as we have been told time and time again that, considering the time and money invested, it's too risky for the big mmo's to try radical changes, despite what the box may say.(cough* Tabula Rasa*) Don't understand how it's 'safer' to release another identikit game to get buried in the rush myself, but there you have it. |
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kangarootoo
04/02/08 @ 17:18
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@lambtron
"Its just like those DVD ads about how downloading movies funds terrorism" Because they are both true you mean? Any product that is generated by criminals is going to generate cash for criminals, and there is absolutely no reason to not suspect that criminals don't spent their ill gotten gains on other far worse things. The discussion is never as simply as it appears of course. Buying "drugs" puts money in the hands of criminals, but only because drugs are illegal and so criminals are the only point of sale. If drugs were legal, the criminal element would be removed. If gold selling were allowed, people wouldn't need stolen credit cards, accounts and so on to get involved in it. It could simply be a legal business venture for anyone inclined to take it up. Whilst gold farming is a dodgy activity, buying farmed gold WILL put money into the hands of crims, just like buying pirated DVDs is likely to (maybe not "terrorists", maybe just burglars, but who's counting?) Edit: P.s. in this internet day and age the DVD comparison is a bad one, as the illegal production of DVDs is a trivial matter for anyone in the general public. Lets replace it in the example with ecstasy, which still requires a degree of criminal organisation to produce and probably very actually funds prostitution, human trafficking and other rather nasty things. @Shiraman "the easiest and most effective method would be to just sell the gold themselves, thereby undercutting the illegal sellers" You are describing two different things there. On the one hand you suggest the dev sell the gold themselves, but then you go on to state that they could undercut the seller, which is a total (and wrong) assumption. The dev can no more under cut the illegal seller than the seller can undercut the dev, just like in any other free market. They would simply be competing in a free market, and if their only solution was to continually try and undercut each other, the bottom would fall out of the gold market and it would become worthless. The dev would be better off patching the game to give everyone unlimited gold. "There, problem solved. Now stop whining." Seriously, did it never occur as you were writing that people might not have already considered that suspiciously obvious solution?
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most recently on 04/02/08 @ 17:20
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HelloWorld
04/02/08 @ 17:34
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Surely they should just legalise the sale of gold in real life, in the same way that they should just legalise prostitution, or alchohol in the US in the 1930s.
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bigbadbeasty
04/02/08 @ 17:47
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If he is saying that both buying gold and prostitution are actually legal, he is absolutely right :)
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it's all about getting something first, no matter how much 'fun' it is. If you have a bigger steed or blade, then you're the better player, or at least: that's how the human mind works. Most of us know it isn't so after some rationalization but still, we all feel that little spark of jealousy when someone loots a better item, or has more money in a game.
The only way to stop Gold trading is to exclude player trading from a game, and who wants that? |
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Banning unbalanced trades? I'd hate that. My WoW guild and I routinely lend each other gold when we're, say, a few hundred short of something - no other item given in "temporary" exchange. I make great items and dole them out for free to said guild, and, indeed, to friends who are non-guild. That seems like a terrible idea, really.
Mind you, Runescape always seemed like a terrible idea made digital, so I guess it's not that surprising. |
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Suggesting that the developers sell gold themselves, undercutting the illegal sellers now is just plain STUPID. There's NO other word for it.
WHY in GOD's name would you PAY MORE?! You pay for the game, you pay for the subscription, the Internet, your computer, electrical power... now you're taking the PAYING route to "finishing" the game? COME ON! Why pay EVEN MORE? Like the Runescape-bigwig says, it is a problem with the game itself. It's not FUN enough! It should be fun and easy. It's a GAME, playing not WORKING for GOLD to get to "the good bits". |
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Sl1pstream
04/02/08 @ 23:44
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If buying gold is like funding prostitution, paying for Runescape is like funding a child pornography network.
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Jagex and other online MMO developers only have themselves to blame for the situation: the only reason people are willing to buy in-game gold for real money off some dodgy site or whatever, is because not everyone wants to devote their entire life to mindlessly clicking on the same bastard rocks and twatting countless trolls around the head, just to gain any bloody 'skill' or rewards in the game. Players are rewarded for the amount of time they perform menial tasks, rather than engaging in fun, skillful activities. Unless scamming newbies is considered fun - well it is but also against the rules apparently. Is it any wonder why so many people want to skip the tedious step of getting your character to an acceptable level, just so you're you aren't mocked by 11 year olds wearing bright blue wizards hats called 'mageWaRriOr44pwnsall who spend every hour not in school playing the game'?
I don't want to mock those who love playing these games (aside from the nob-heads who average 10 hours a day playing them - like the top players in Runescape do) but the way the entire MMORPG structure is based encourages gold farming and real world trading. Make it so casual players can progress without needing to play the game religiously in front of the computer whilst being drip-fed nutrients, and maybe things will improve a little - note a little, there's always going to be cheating scum, but hopefully not as many. I'd also like the opportunity to say hello to my former Jagex colleagues, some of which aren't back-stabbing gits. Cheerio. |
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@AOFanboi
"On my WoW server stacks of 20 copper bars - easily made by a level 5 char - sells for 2-3 gold. Normal price would probably been 20-40 silver" Surely this has less to do with gold sellers than it does with players who have multiple level 70s available to provide almost limitless cash for their alts? The colossal disparity in in-game purchasing power between new or "casual" players and those who've been grinding for months or even years may lead to those new players feeling that - in order to acquire the items that used to sell for perfectly reasonable prices in the dimly remembered past - buying gold is the only way to compete on anything approaching level terms. Put it this way, if you wander into the Flea Market for the first time with your fresh-faced level 10 Rat Stomper to buy him a shiny new replacement for his dented old Tin Foil Hat, only to find that due to this server existing on a "twink-based" economy all such items are priced at roughly what you'd expect to pay for a new yacht ... your options are limited. (a) Shut up, stop moaning, use what you're given and deal with the consequences (b) Join the grind yourself, mine Unobtainium Ore 8 hours a day, while reminding yourself it's meant to be a game (c) Hand over your credit card details to a shady organization in Hong Kong on the promise of some ready Doubloons Part of the continued appeal of MMOs - indeed, a core reason why they are such digital crack - is the promise of new, better, shinier gear just around the corner ... to make you newer and better and shinier than all those other proles playing alongside you. Ain't happening if those other proles are spending 8 hours a day grinding cash with their Level 99 Drow God Killer Ubermenschen, while you're trying to make progress as best you can during the 3 or 4 hours you can grab a week. Gold sellers no doubt do drive up prices wherever they are used. But the natural inflationary effect of levelling, grinding and rolling an alt appears more significant. Now that's a scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it but it is scientific fact.
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 05/02/08 @ 01:14
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kangarootoo
05/02/08 @ 10:40
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@hahayou
I guess you missed the bit where I wrote "in this internet day and age the DVD comparison is a bad one, as the illegal production of DVDs is a trivial matter for anyone in the general public" and the further words that followed it. @groovemeister "I never saw a problem with prostitution - in a free society what goes on between a prossy and a client os their business - so where's the issue?" In principal I would agree, but its not an industry that is really staffed by girls who are doing it as a career choice. I have no moral objection to prostitution, but in reality the industry is entirely based on a foundation of vulnerable people who in the business either against their will , or because they feel they have no other choice. In fact if prostitution was fully legal, better protections would probably be in place for the girls that work in it. I guess that is really what this whole discussion is about, whether it be mmo gold farming or real life abuses. P.s. ah, I see you drew the same conclusions yourself after reading the article :) |
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Jagex lost 60k customers over their mishandled attempt to stop real world trading. Instead of doing something intelligent like WOW & Guild Wars did, they implemented an across the board punishment (trading limit) to every single player.
Runescape does have a report system, but apparently not enough staff to actually handle the reports. Either reports of players saying real world trading site in game were ignored or took weeks to get around to banning the accounts. Other MMO do not ignore the issue, they have serial tracking, in game logs, and good customer service that actually responds to these issues. Where reports were never confirmed in Runescape - Guild Wars actually replies to reports in less than 12 hours. World of War Craft bans such offenses in less than 24 hours. Then to put the icing on the cake of stupid things Jagex did with Runescape - players that were previously banned got their black marks removed & let back into the game. The lack of customer service, lies, poor in game help, and mismanagement of the problem has cost them. |
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MrCalavera
05/02/08 @ 14:40
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Banning accounts because they engage in heavily one sided transactions is a terrible idea!
I used to play WoW pretty heavily and i'd been in a guild for close on 2 years. As a result, I trusted the majority of people in it. So i'd quite regulaly lend others in the guild huge sums of gold and have gold lent to me. So that guys saying that, had I of done that in Runescape, i'd have been banned. I'd have been banned for helping a guildmate. Nice idea there Imre. |
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@glesin : unfortunately the report function is abused by idiots. Really if you knew the sheer number of reports about absolutely nothing that came in, you'd know why there's a problem with Jagex shifting through them. The chaps and non-chaps in support do their best though. Some of them work like Trojans through the night. It's only the people at the top that can be blamed for the probs, not the little guys at the bottom.
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@Collie - Yes I am aware that the low man on the totem poll gets passed all the grunt work & that functionality & structure of a company is dependent on the head dogs.
My opinions on the mishandling & unbanning legitimate banned accounts is totally directed at the top dogs. @MrCalavera - Runescape players had less than a month to collect anything they had lent out (during the month of December when many were to busy to be on regularly to actually collect any loans) Now no one can help anyone out. They arent banned for it ... it cant be done.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 06/02/08 @ 08:07
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Comments: 1-33 of 33 in total
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