Bungie explains Halo 3 HDD issue

By Robert Purchese Published 20 November, 2008

Too risky and costly to fix.

Bungie has explained why load times increase when Halo 3 is installed to an Xbox 360 hard drive.

The problem revolves around the game using a small free-space partition on the hard drive, according to caching clever-clogs Mat Noguchi on the Bungie website.

When Halo 3 runs on DVD, maps are cached to the partition to speed up load times, and subsequently deleted if another game is played. And because Halo 3 launched after the HDD option was announced, the game still tries to cache the maps.

The result: the hard drive reading and duplicating files and moving them somewhere else, which takes time. Less time, incidentally, than another device - the DVD drive - reading the files while the hard drive copies them.

"While anything is possible, it would be a significant undertaking to try and retroactively patch/update Halo 3 to be optimised to take advantage of the HDD install features of NXE," concludes Noguchi.

"The risks of doing that and the resources required have to be carefully considered against what could really be a rather insignificant change to the player experience.

"For now our team is focused on making great games for the future like Halo 3: Recon and other unannounced projects but we will continue to monitor this situation," he added.

Check out our New Xbox Experience: DVD vs. Hard Disk Face-Off article to see which games improve their load times, and by how much.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (46) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • JonFE #1 3 years ago

    Both the reason behind the increased loading times and Bungie's reaction to it are understandable IMO. They optimized their game according to the governing-at-the-time specification. There really is no reason for them to go back to the drawing board and fix a non-issue, which can easily be avoided simply by not installing the game in the first place.

  • jack_klugman #2 3 years ago

    Sounds fair enough.

  • IMO #3 3 years ago

    "Both the reason behind the increased loading times and Bungie's reaction to it are understandable IMO. They optimized their game according to the governing-at-the-time specification. There really is no reason for them to go back to the drawing board and fix a non-issue, which can easily be avoided simply by not installing the game in the first place."

    While I completely agree, I also feel the need to point out that such a response is far too sensible for the comments section.

  • GamesConnoisseur #4 3 years ago

    What Bungie said is very understandable. As JonFE said it was basically doing best they can with the resources they had at the time, it was a nifty trick to do caching and programmed around that. Ah well now i know doesnt need to install Halo 3 onto my 120gb hdd but is there any other games that would be worse off performance wise (even if marginal) installed as opposed to playing off the disk?

  • Darren #5 3 years ago

    Nevermind optimising Halo 3 so it can run installed from the HDD faster... how about optimising it so the resolution and image quality are current generation standards, i.e. 720p with 2X AA miminum. :p

  • Evolution #6 3 years ago

    @Darren

    You mean porting it to the PC?

  • Darren #7 3 years ago

    @Evolution - Well that would work, yeah! :D

  • neilka #8 3 years ago

    "And because Halo 3 launched after the HDD option was announced"

    Before, surely?

    "Less time, incidentally, than another device - the DVD drive - reading the files while the hard drive copies them."

    More time, surely?

  • SlackMaster #9 3 years ago

    *Moral Outrage*

    Ok, thread is back on track now.

  • Mawich #10 3 years ago

    @neilka: I was thinking those same thoughts.

    @JonFE: I agree with IMO - your response is far too sensible for the comments section. Correct, though.

    On the whole I'm very glad to have the install feature. Playing Fable 2 is a much nicer experience without the drive chuntering away all the time. Although ultimately it would have been better to have a quieter drive, perhaps...

    Here's a really silly idea for a super-expensive version of the console: add another 9GB of memory and use it as a direct-mapped cache to the DVD content, so you only ever have to read each byte once. Problem solved!

  • penhalion #11 3 years ago

    I put up with the increased times for the bloomin' peace and quiet it gets me.

  • oceanmotion #12 3 years ago

    Surely a little bit of "yes" or "no" code would do the trick.

    I suspect this is like Bungie's 4 player coop downer, when it might not work then bam, tadaa!

    Hopefully Recon has the fix then since it is later and also has every multiplayer map which I think is a reason they might just skip it with Halo 3.

  • Bealsy #13 3 years ago

    I was wondering what was going on here, I read through the first few comments and there was not even a hint of a misplaced "z" or mispelt word. I see that things didn't take long to return to normal.

  • JonFE #14 3 years ago

    @IMO & Mawich:

    Thank you! Is being "far too sensible for the comments section" a good or a bad thing though?

    :-)

  • Gearskin #15 3 years ago

    I copied Halo 3 onto the HDD last night... and then I got the message when I booted it up.

    I was so angry that I punched my dog in the face. IN THE FACE

    See what Bungie make me do?

  • Widge #16 3 years ago

    More on this here:

    http://www. digitalfoundry.org/blog/?p=227

  • Shinzou #17 3 years ago

    There must already be a bit of code that checks if a HDD is connected or not so it knows if it can cache the maps. It cant be hard to patch as its just replicating what happens on an arcade console surely?

    Anyway if they cant be bothered then thats fine as well - the game still works. I think I would still go for the slower but quieter install.

  • the_dudefather #18 3 years ago

    Wonder if thats similar to the reason crackdown doesn't work (or so I hear)
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/08 @ 15:43

  • Red-Moose #19 3 years ago

    "One of our programmers wrote some code to install a bit of the game on the HDD if it was available." Fucking hell, this is high tech stuff and their reasons are understandable. They used the HDD to install a bit of the game from the DVD, so naturally it's really fucking hard to just install the whole thing to the HDD because.....?

  • The_Programmer #20 3 years ago

    I thought that Microsoft originally said that you must not use the hard disk for caching data so that all games would play on the Core and Premium versions of the 360. Does this mean that Halo 3 won't play on the Core or Arcade version of the 360?

  • Dizzy #21 3 years ago

    "I thought that Microsoft originally said that you must not use the hard disk for caching data so that all games would play on the Core and Premium versions of the 360"

    No quite the opposite. MS encourages devs to use the HDD when it is there, but MS doesn't want to have games that require the HDD.

  • karstux #22 3 years ago

    The question is if games can easily detect if they're installed on the HD or not. Remember that "installing" here means storing a DVD image on the HD, so technically, the game won't know if it's launched from the real disc or from the image.

  • smelly #23 3 years ago

    (feels like he needs to take this thread to the same "level" as others";)

    Bah.. You're all fanboyz.. micro$oft suxorz! This is shit! Another example of micro$oft just going after money!

    Micro$oft $ux!

    360Lol

  • captainrentboy #24 3 years ago

    That's the spirit Smelly! Do you see how fun it is?....
    Naaaa, because it's only amusing when a diehard format defender goes freakin' mental over someone else's throwaway jokey comment.

  • Darren #25 3 years ago

    So if Halo 3 doesn't cache to the HDD on an Xbox 360 without an HDD (for obvious reasons!), does that mean it initially loads the game much faster?

    I mean the current process with an HDD is to copy the data from the DVD to the HDD then load the data from the HDD? If there is no HDD then the game presumably just loads from the disc and therefore start quicker. You catch my drift? ;)

  • SpyroViper #26 3 years ago

    COD: World at War REQUIRES a hard drive for 360.. Wonder is M$ is pissed at them lol.

  • cyber_nicco #27 3 years ago

    ^^^

    I won't even bother to look it up, I'm going to take a chance and say you are completely, utterly wrong about that.

    Someone please let me know if I'm wrong...

  • smelly #28 3 years ago

    @Darren: Nope.

    If you dont have a Hdisk.. then halo 3 will just run straight from cd.. which will be slooooow.

    if you have a hdisk, halo 3 will copy various bits of itself to the harddisk (in effect installing itself), which will be slow.. but subsequent file accesses will be fast. (i.e. in effect it installs itself!)

    If you install to the harddisk, then halo3 will STILL copy bits of itself to the harddisk (the slow bit).. However copying files from one part of the same storage device to another part of the same storage device is slower than a straight copy from one medium to another. Think about it.. if i'm copying from one disc to another, then i can pretty much do it sequentially.. if i'm doing it on the same medium - it'd mean reading a part, going to where it should end up - copying it over, going back to read another part, etc etc

  • Shakey_Jake33 #29 3 years ago

    I am curious though. I assuming the game works with no HDD connected, they could surely make a patch to 'trick' the game into thinking no HDD is connected, thus avoid the cashing? I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and if it's merely increased loading time it's probably not worth it, just something that came to mind.

  • The_Programmer #30 3 years ago

    I am curious though. I assuming the game works with no HDD connected, they could surely make a patch to 'trick' the game into thinking no HDD is connected, thus avoid the cashing? I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and if it's merely increased loading time it's probably not worth it, just something that came to mind.

    That's exactly what I was thinking. If it runs without the HDD then all they have to do is bypass the code that checks for the HDD then it could safely be copied onto the HDD and run from there. It would then think it was running on a Core or Arcade but with HDD access speed.

  • Malacath #31 3 years ago

    Ok Oblivion and Fallout 3 also use the HDD cache and they run better after being installed.

  • smelly #32 3 years ago

    They probably could do a patch to do that yes.

    HOWEVER.. it wont come "free" someone would have to code it, they'd have to detect if you're somehow running from harddisk (may not be possible), someone would have to test it, the patch will have to be put up online. All that costs wonga.

    And bungie arent even part of msoft any more .. so may not even be possible there either..

    They could simplify it i s'pose - and make it turn off hd-caching all the time.. But then you'd have to explain to "numptys" not to download it unless they've installed it...

  • smelly #33 3 years ago

    "Ok Oblivion and Fallout 3 also use the HDD cache and they run better after being installed. "

    I'm sure you know all about it.. why dont you get on the phone - offer to code it for them?

  • Xerx3s #34 3 years ago

    Every game uses HDD cache. H3 just does it a bit different.

  • Kittinger #35 3 years ago

    No, I'm sorry but I think that's lame and a poor excuse. What it basically boils down to "can't be arsed".

  • barchetta #36 3 years ago

    So... Microsoft spoil Bungie's party at E3. Halo series is causing some awkwardness on teh internets for Microsoft (storm in a teacup really). Bungie thinks about a patch.........

    ......still thinking.....


    .....maybe we'll think some more.....

    schadenfreude?

  • smelly #37 3 years ago

    @Kittinger: PRogrammer are we? Understand the problems involved do you?

  • 3william56 #38 3 years ago

    Too costly? Yeah, I'm sure Bungie are short of a few quid after the Halo games sold so few copies.

    Er...

  • Troopa3k #39 3 years ago

    To be honest, I think this is a bit of a cop-out on Bungies part.

    At present, their code (basically) goes:

    IF hardDrivePresent=true THEN cacheDataToDrive

    How hard would it be for them to adjust this to be:

    IF hardDrivePresent=true AND installedToHardDrive=false THEN cacheDataToDrive

    Answer? Not particularly hard at all. It's just a lazy excuse on their behalf.

    And before anyone says its, yes, I am a programmer. Not a games programmer I admit, but there's nothing too advanced about what I've just written that any programmer wouldn't be able to understand it.

  • Widge #40 3 years ago

    If it was that easy, I'm sure they would knock out a 1mb patch.

  • Troopa3k #41 3 years ago

    Coding wise it is that easy. The trouble, cost and effort comes from testing the patch, approving it, ceritifying it, publishing it, etc. It's a whole lot of work, time and trouble for something that won't earn Bungie any more money. Easy to do technically? Yes. Pain in the arse due to all the red-tape? Also yes.

  • Sniper_007 #42 3 years ago

    "There must already be a bit of code that checks if a HDD is connected or not so it knows if it can cache the maps. It cant be hard to patch as its just replicating what happens on an arcade console surely? "

    Unfortunately it's not as easy as that - the HDD is a requirement for Live & system link co-op so if they did this then co-op would no longer work, and neither would downloadable maps or patches!!

  • BobsUncle #43 3 years ago

    @Troopa3k

    Wow, I didn't know Halo was written in Basic. :-)

  • BobsUncle #44 3 years ago

    Dear Bungie

    Troopa3k has fixed your code for you. I'm sure you can copy and paste it in, being the copy and paste masters that you are.

  • Troopa3k #45 3 years ago

    @BobsUncle

    And I didn't realise my pseudo-code would confuse you enough that you would think it was real code.... ;)

    EDIT: And your copy-and-paste comment is just a flame-war waiting to happen! :p
    Edited by 1 at 21/11/08 @ 13:35

  • BobsUncle #46 3 years ago

    1, 2, 3, 4... I declare a FLAME WAR!