Braid Comments by Dan Whitehead

SOLD!

I wasn't going to bother with this with it being 1200 points and all but after reading this review how can I not.

In every review/preview the journalistic style comes across as a little pretentious. If there's a short demo I'll be interested, got to give it a chance.

ok, I was being a bit dramatic!

The Good inspire the good, because that was one of the best write-ups I've seen on Eurogamer.

@Darren

Thats your opinion. Ive had more fun with Geometry Wars 2 than any other 360 game to date i think. Believe it or not.

Some of you people should really get out more. Bunch of f*cking whiners.

@Darren

these games offer good value for what you pay but they cannot really compete with "proper" games.

You were on a role there until you made the above statement. After that I couldn't take you seriously.

"The problem with puzzle games is that once you know the solution, half the fun has gone. The fact that the review doesn't address this point (in fact, oddly for a "review" it seems utterly devoid of any criticism whatsoever) yet hands out a 10/10"

Huh? So should it be marked down just because it's a puzzle game? What a bizarre comment.

"Also, call me a fanboy..."

You don't have to ask us twice.

@Arbiter

Have you played Portal or Braid? If not you dont know what your talking about. And how much replay value do you actually need from a game at this price?

@muscleblade & penhalion - If you guys really believe that sub-£10 games like Geometry Wars Evolved 2 are "better" in terms of entertainment and production values than full-priced releases then I feel sorry for you because this generation of "proper" games must be a constant disappointment for you. No, really. Perhaps you'd be better off with a Wii...? :P

Now had you said that these games offered better *value* then I wouldn't have disputed that at all because paying £7 for something that lasts 10 ten hours is clearly better than paying £40 for something that lasts 5... ;)

I've yet to play any sub-£10 downloaded game for more than a couple of hours, most entertain me for about 30 minutes tops but then I'm in my early 40s and have played many of these kinds of games numerous times before. Their simple nature doesn't tend to hold my attention much these days although I'll admit I'm looking forward to playing Banjo-Kazooie again but I've a feeling that'll be a 1,200 GP game anyway (£10.80). Even the recent Soulcalibur, which otherwise exceptional, failed to keep me playing it because the meat of the game, the Mission Mode was omitted, and everything else was unlocked from the off rendering the game almost pointless for solo play.

I think Arbiter is showing his true colors now. Despite being an old-time developer (apparently) he just cannot bring himself to love a game that is coming out on platforms he hates (PC/360). You should be happy mate that indie devs can make games that invent new play experiences.

"in fact, oddly for a "review" it seems utterly devoid of any criticism whatsoever"

Maybe there is nothing wrong with it???

Super Stardust has probably got the most sub-tenner play out of me.... half of that is down to the wonderful trophies on there though, going mindless on Endless mode is great.

I'll see about Braid and replay value once I get my mitts on a PC version.

Eurogamer LOL! your reviews are so over the top, your all like failed poets or novelists forced to write game reviews on the internet

I should add as an aside that in my experience downloaded games like Siren, Warhawk and Gran Turismo 5 Prologue offer me the kind of long-lasting entertainment and aeseehtics I expect from this generation of hardware but, of course, those games cost £20 not £7. ;)

Hmm, I'm a little concerned about coughing up 1200 points for it, I hear it's pretty short (3 hours!). Strange this 10/10 review doesn't mention this short life span......

/ gets tinfoil hat

Those are really good quality downloadable games!

>Strange this 10/10 review doesn't mention this short life span......

Why are people focusing on life span all the time. Portal was only 3 hours and was great. I am sure sex with Japanese twins (marks black book) is great and probably less than 20 minutes.

I prefer a game that blows me away for 3 hours above a mediocre one that last for 200 hours.

@Darren

Geo wars 2 is absolutely a nextgen proper game in all the right ways. Im not dissapointed in this generation of games, but i think many retail games have become more a shore than a real challenge . I prefer challenging games. And about the Wii your way off dude. I love NG2 misiion mode too though. More than the game itself.

@bad09 - At least you can try the demo for nothing, that's something Microsoft should be applauded for at least (Nintendo need a clip around the ear however for their no-demo policy and Sony could do to learn a lot from them too in terms of offering demos for ALL games not just some). £11 for a three hour game doesn't strike me as being particularly good value either but then as I said earlier I'm loathe to purchase these games anyway as I know I'll play them once, think they're OK and then never touch them again! LOL

My next XBLA purchase will be Banjo-Kazooie as I know I'll play that from start to finish and if memory serves me correctly it takes around 20-30 hours easily (my first playthrough on the N64 original took me almost 40 hours!). That'll keep me quiet until Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts arrives! :)

might be temted to get this if it runs under Parallels on my mac...

Oh yeah!

What IS the length of the game, Dan. 2-3 hours? 3-10 hour?. I have a 7month old kid to attend, so a three-hour game, a la LostWinds would be sweet.

How's about it?

Darren: again you don't make sense with "If you guys really believe that sub-£10 games like Geometry Wars Evolved 2 are "better" in terms of entertainment"..... Sure, production values are lower, but who are you to decide for the entire world what is and what is not entertaining? Maybe you have a short attention span, maybe not. Maybe you need the big flashy effects and graphics and huge gameworlds so there is always something to keep you occupied. These sub-£10 games can never compete on graphics and production value, but they don't try to, they compete purely on gameplay.

I've been following this for a long while and always knew i'd be buying it, but this just gets me even more hyped for playing it. Hopefully the 1200 point price won't put off some people, so many users tend to throw the toys from the pram a soon as a game crosses the 800 points barrier, but this is more than worth!

@chris_ace

Or maybe they're just writing for people that enjoy the odd bit of well written prose.

The reviews on EG are a refreshing break from the torrent of acronyms and leetspeak in every other nook of the internet. It's nice to see our language used properly, with some depth and feeling every now and then.

Bought. Not even going to try the trial. Fantastic review, the passion just oozes off of it.

A great review of what looks to be a breathtaking game. Ta very much sir :)

@ Dizzy

I do get your point (and I'm not expecting 100 hours gameplay) but I never buy games I can clear in an afternoon if I wanted to. As much of what is there is apparently superb, just 3 hours of gameplay is not the sort of thing I want to encourage, so find it hard to part with my cash, especially 1200 points.

@muscleblade - Fair enough then.

Despite my love of Super Stardust HD on the PS3 though, which I'll admit is super addictive and is one of those rare download games I've played for more than a few hours, I don't find most of these games as entertaining or ground-breaking as most full-priced releases. To be honest I view them as £1.99 Mastertronic games to the main £9.99 releases (if you're a C64 or Spectrum owner, you'll understand what I mean), in other words they're cheap and cheerful but seldom brilliant. :)

What IS the length of the game, Dan. 2-3 hours? 3-10 hour?. I have a 7month old kid to attend, so a three-hour game, a la LostWinds would be sweet.

It all depends on how quickly you can get your head around the constantly shifting notions of time manipulation. There's a speed-run mode - and Achievement - so technically you could complete the game in one hour. First time through, I'd be amazed if there aren't numerous puzzles that catch you out.

It's a very good game for dipping in and out of though - you can easily unlock all the levels, and you can jump to whichever world you want, so you can pretty much pick and choose the order you find all the puzzle pieces.

i classic example of why i should never overlook a crappy frontpage image and the xbox live moniker.
Never heard of it but now want it !

@Darren

Just for the record my objection to you was in your implying that simply because a game is sub £10 it isn't a "proper" game. That statement had absolutely zero place in the discussion because it's nonsense. I can pick up travel chess for a fiver. Does this now mean that Chess is no longer a proper game?

It's entirely right that you have an opinion about the quality of sub 10 games but, only extreme arrogance allows someone to claim that price has anything to do with what is and isn't a proper game. A child can play with the letters from a print statement on a screen and to that child the whole experience is a proper game. Even if no-one else alive knows the childs rules.

Normally your arguments are very well thought out so I have no idea where your statement about what makes a proper game came from.

Edit:The usual for all who know me...i.e spelling O_o

"Seriously, I don't rate Dan as a reviewer. That's all. That's not a personal slight against the man, just to say that I tend to disagree with his opinions and his way of presenting them"

Ok fair enough... but I think his review is like that on purpose to go hand-in-hand with the "feel" of the game. Does that make sense?

@Arbiter: "I could tell from the first paragraph Dan absolutely loved it, but the plain truth is that he didn't convince me that I should love it too."

I thought a reviewer's job was to clearly give their own opinion of a game, not to pressgang others into sharing their opinion. And if you could tell from the first paragraph that Dan absolutely loved it, then that suggests (to me) that he's doing his job well.

@Arbiter

The Watchmen comparison put me off too. So this is an overrated, irritatingly pompus and self-indulgent piece of crap then? *hides*

Seriously, quite jealous of this one since I have a 360 but no Live (don't ask). Glad it's coming out on PC then...although hopefully a bit cheaper, no?

@ Darren

Agreed MS and their demo approach is much better. Sony and Ninty should adopt the same approach, I'm sure they would increase sales if they did.

I know there is a few on PSN I may have got if I could try them out first! A good example is Elefunk, Not got it yet (spending too much on games lately!) but I would never have thought about buying it at all without a demo. I recently sorted out a dodgy US account and found a demo and really liked it so now it's next on the purchase list.

Come on SCEE pull your finger out, if you let us try it we will buy!

@TheMoonRat - These sub-£10 games can never compete on graphics and production value, but they don't try to, they compete purely on gameplay."

Yes, I understand that, which is why I was talking in terms of value for money. Most people wouldn't pay £30-£40 for Geometry Wars Evolved 2 I suspect (although I'm sure some would!) but at £7 it's decently priced whether you play it for 3 hours (like me) or 30 hours.

Anyway, I wasn't implying that my view were right, I'm just saying that I disagreed with what Widge wrote because he was stating that "all the best games this generation have been under £10". Had he written 'best value games' or that 'some sub-£10 game have been better than a lot of full-priced releases' then I'd have had no reason to disagree with him but his implication is that none of the full-price releases have measured up which strikes me as an odd thing to say. Maybe he does believe that, I dunno, but if that was me I'd have sold my Xbox 360 if that was the case because surely the reason for upgrading in the first place is to play games that make proper use of the better hardware whether it's graphics, game size or whatever?

@speedofthepuma

May I recommend gamepointsnow.com - it cut out a whole lot of hassle for me, and I've never been let down by it.

Gah. I thought this looked a bit meh from the trailers. Now I'm tempted to get it... but I only have 1100 points in my accounts :/

Sodding gamer points...

You see it's the 1200 point price that's putting me off getting this despite all the praise it's been getting. Fair enough it's an experience and a positive step forward for games as an art form which I'm definitely in favour of when it doesn't get in the way of actual gameplay (like it did in Killer 7 to name one example). But for that much money I'd expect a fair bit of replay value from an XBLA game. Even the achievements look like they can breezed through on the second playthrough and aren't very imaginative in comparison to the brilliant achievements in Geometry Wars 2 last week.

"Why are people focusing on life span all the time. Portal was only 3 hours and was great"

Yes it was, in fact I'd rate it as the best Game of last year and definitely in my top 5 of all time, but also consider that it came included with 4 other brilliant games as part of The Orange Box and had a lot of replay value if you wanted to get all the achievement points like I did :smug:

If you want cheap xbox live points go to tesco direct £13.97 for 2100 points

Yep, and you'll enjoy spending them in November when they actually fucking arrive.

@penhalion - You know what I meant. I was referring to a proper game in quotes because I meant full-priced £40 releases (this is clear enough in my first post).

And, yes, regardless of the price a game is still a game but if I buy a game for my Xbox 360 I not only want it to entertain me for many hours (to get value for money out of it) but I also want it to make decent use of the hardware. Thus I'd rather pay £20-£40 for such a game than £7 for something that typically lasts 30 minutes tops. Paying £7 for a game that might last me ten minutes at most just isn't great value and in my experience I've found the vast majority of XBLA games just don't grab me in the same way as most full-priced releases. There are a few exceptions like Super Stardust HD and Tekken 5 DR but they're extremely rare (and hopefully Rare in the case of the eagerly awaited Banjo-Kazooie, which is one of favourite games of all-time!).

If you enjoy games, and you read Dan's review and appreciated it, then you will appreciate what Braid does and says.

This goes twice if you like text adventure IF games, of which Braid most reminds me of. I think it's the mechanics being strewn up in the 'storytelling'.

Also, if you like fantastic art and music which go hand in hand in creating a tone which is playful and moving and mysterious, then you'll like this.

Honestly just play the demo, if you like it, buy it :) Don't give me 'oh but this costs £3.50 more than what it would have cost at 800 points so I won't buy it'. What.

Game length issues usually comes into play when you want to knock a game on a system you don't own.

Actually Rev, I ordered my points from Tesco Jersey and they somehow arrived the next day, Shopto style.

Pretty bloody amazing. However, the first time I ordered from them they took about 2 weeks to arrive. Talk about inconsistent.

Regarding the Watchmen comparison, I'll admit that I hesitated to use such a fanboyish example but after much thought it was simply the most relevant and appropriate parallel. My aim wasn't to compare apples to oranges, or say that Braid is an all-time classic that will influence an entire industry (though that would be nice). My point is simply that Braid is using the structures and systems of videogame design - the semiotics of videogames, if you want to be really poncey - in the same way that Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons used the established forms and symbols of the comic strip format to deconstruct and comment on the superhero genre.

Braid works as a videogame, it works as a videogame about videogames, and it works as a videogame that shows what videogames are capable of - and that all this can be achieved using one of the most basic templates of all, the 2D platformer.

This isn't the only review-site on the internet, though.

Didn't you have a problem with the Metal Gear 4 review too? Perhaps there are other sites publishing reviews that appeal more to what you're looking for.

You don't have to continually punish yourself by coming here - it's clearly bad for your health.

Darren wrote: And, yes, regardless of the price a game is still a game but if I buy a game for my Xbox 360 I not only want it to entertain me for many hours.

Still i complete games alot more than you do. I would actually think you would prefer games to be shorter looking at your profile.

It actually looks like you dont even play the retail games for more than a couple of hours tops. I usually like your comments but this time your way off especially since you barely touch the games you buy.

The problem I havew with the review is that its crystal clear that all these elements have "clicked" perfectly for Dan, but that's not much help to me! I want to know how much game there is, I want to know how the controls feel, I want to know about the level of difficulty, and I want to know if there's more than just aesthetics to bring me back after I've completed the game once...

When there's a free demo available of the game in question, and when there were so many more interesting aspects to write about, it just doesn't make sense to waste paragraphs on how the controls feel.

This game has come out of nowhere to score an Edge 9 and an EG 10! Really enjoyed the review too Dan - made it into a defo buy for me.

@ Darren

What are you going on about? Part of the Xbox experience is great 3D HD graphics yes, but a bigger and more important part imo is the Live aspect i.e. achievements, online play, co-op play, the arcade etc. All 360 games whether under a tenner or not make some use of this Live functionality which makes playing a game on the PS2, for example, a very lonely experience in comparison.

So, no, I would say that people who enjoy lower budget games will enjoy them more on the 360 than any of the last gen consoles.