Bizarre says The Club is misunderstood

"Some just didn't 'get' the concept."

Bizarre Creations believes the divided reaction to The Club has been because some have misunderstood its concept.

Speaking to Videogaming247, community chief Ben Ward said its brand new ideal will "take time to resonate with certain people".

"For every person who played it and was expecting a story-driven game we found two or three people who really understood the pursuit of high-scores," said Ward. "Already we've got a hardcore fan base building up, which is very encouraging!

"The game is all about competing with friends for the highest score possible, and showing off your skills whilst doing it. It's something that's fairly unique in the shooter genre at the moment, and something we really believe in."

Interestingly Ben Ward went on to reveal that the developer had also made a concious effort to keep blood and guts to a minimum, in order not to overshadow the skill-based heart of the game.

But his comments also suggest it was done to pre-emptively fend off the accusatory gaze of the anti-videogame groups.

"Fundamentally the game is still about shooting lots of people. We've handled this in a similar way to Hollywood action movies - it's not gratuitous or sadistic in the way it does things. Primarily the game is a gameplay-driven skill-based title, and we are hoping that anti-videogame groups will see this shine through."

The Club is being released tomorrow on Xbox 360 and PS3, and will follow on PC on 22nd February.

We've already had a chance to get our hands on it and heaped considerable praise on its combo-shoulders for getting back to the 2D shoot-'em-up days of old.

Pop over to our The Club review to find out more.

Comments (57) Latest comment 4 years ago

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  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #1 4 years ago

    I 'got' the game in the demo, I believe. I just didn't like it very much.

    I think the speed/style/high-scores thing was done in a way that was much more fun in Total Overdose (which is up there with BG&E as one of the most underrated games of the last generation ifn you ask me). The lack of jumping or any sort of acrobatics made the whole thing feel strangely artificial, and like some kind of Goldeneye throwback.
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/08 @ 16:25
  • TagemandBagem #2 4 years ago

    "The game is all about competing with friends for the highest score possible, and showing off your skills whilst doing it. It's something that's fairly unique in the shooter genre at the moment,"

    uh...yeah, sure.
  • Triggerhappytel #3 4 years ago

    I suppose the idea that some folk scored it lower because they didn't especially like the restrictive and repetitive nature is out of the question, then...?

    I like the idea, but personally would never buy a full game on this premise. A a mini-game - like Resi 4's Mercenaries - it's fine, but not as a full-price release.
  • SlackMaster #4 4 years ago

    I'd be interested if it was around the £20-24 mark like defence force but at £39.99 for what seems like a very shallow throw away game is just asking too much.
  • Darren #5 4 years ago

    Well I'm not going to say anything about the game until I've had the chance to play the full thing tomorrow but I will say that despite enjoying the demo, I have my concerns about apparent the lack of depth. Hopefully I'll be so busy enjoying the game it won't matter because the Burnout series has never had any depth but I've always loved those games (Paradise less so but that's not the topic of this discussion).
  • Skooch #6 4 years ago

    It's a very arcadey score-based third-person shooter that is all about High Scores, I can understand that if you buy it expecting more than that you could be disappointed - although I am finding it fun.
  • magicpocket #7 4 years ago

    Having got my hands on an early copy of the game i can say that people shouldnt be worried about lack of depth (it has bucket loads - you just need to play it!) and can confirm that the scoring nature the club kicks ass. I'm furkin well determined to get to the top of leaderboards :)
  • espadachin #8 4 years ago

    Another developer telling gamers they are wrong.
    Bravo. :)
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/08 @ 16:41
  • kangarootoo #9 4 years ago

    I wasn't too enamoured with the demo, but I guess the concept is sound.

    Some poeple don't really care about improving on a previous high score, and I'm one of them (I'd rather just play new stuff than repeat play). I'm clearly not the whole of the market though. Two of my friends sit on either side of the fence too, one was left cold like me, the other seemed to "get it".

    If I think back, a shed load of people were unimpressed with Crackdown the first time around, and then went back to it after the prompting of friends to then discover a work of magic in there. Not saying this is on a par with Crackdown, but I get what Ward is saying.
  • Tyronne #10 4 years ago

    The only time I was interested in high scores was back in the day I visited the arcades, now however high scores mean nothing whatsoever for myself.

    I played the demo of this and thought `is this it ?` and decided upon that to not buy it.

    But being a gamer for over 27 years now I appear to be wrong according to Bizarre, how deluded I am...
  • kangarootoo #11 4 years ago

    @espadachin

    Well he's not quite saying that is he. I think this is a reasonably polite request that people give it another go with a different set of expectations. Seems reasonable to me (even though it won't convert everyone, me included I fear).

    Its a far step from EAs Burnout Paradise comments on lack of restart,

    "Some people (in other words, almost everyone) think its a problem but we don't".
  • GordonCaladan #12 4 years ago

    Shooting people in the head for sport is, of course, not violent at all.
  • symbiote #13 4 years ago

    "misunderstood" = "shit fuck bollocks we're not going to make enough wonga out of this who's fucking idea was it anyway?"
  • FenderMaster #14 4 years ago

    @espadachin

    Well he's not quite saying that is he. I think this is a reasonably polite request that people give it another go with a different set of expectations. Seems reasonable to me (even though it won't convert everyone, me included I fear).

    Its a far step from EAs Burnout Paradise comments on lack of restart,


    "Some people (in other words, almost everyone) think its a problem but we don't".


    ^^ agreed
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/08 @ 16:54
  • Uncle_Fishboy #15 4 years ago

    I thought this game was boring, I don't give a flying fuck whether I 'got it' or not. Shove it up your jacksy nerdy boys.

    On a side note, I used to recommend this site to people. Now I just find it embarrassing. The reviewers have their heads shoved firmly up their own arses. Geeks with a english degree and small willies I'll bet. And I bet they like Linkin Park and snort when laughing. Tossers.
  • FenderMaster #16 4 years ago

    theyre definitely more conceited and less funny than tey used to be, they should just stop trying too hard, you dont need a smart ass comment for every bit of news...
  • Anthony_UK #17 4 years ago

    I think he's right, I played the demo the first time going in pretty much blind apart from me knowing it was from the guys who did Gotham, and I must admit i really didn't get it. But i did try, playing it like a poor gears of war clone without the cover system, untill I turned it of before finishing the level.

    Yesterday I read the review, watched a couple of gameplay vids and gave it another go, and it all started to make sense!

    And you know what, it's one of the best things i've played in ages and i'll be picking it up tomorrow, everyone give it another go! it's so different to what were all used to, it really does take some time to get the feel of whats going on!

    This really doesn't deserve to bomb the way i feel it might do!
  • Schiraman #18 4 years ago

    I don't think it's so much a case of misunderstood, as understood but disliked ;)
  • magicpocket #19 4 years ago

    I dont think it's fair to be that cynical. Even on here.

    Some people have complained about the lack of a cover button, but personally what those people dont understand is that you'll never get a top score if you hide - the game is about sprinting through a level mowing the enemies down as fast as you can and as accurately as you can.

    That's not going to appeal to everyone, granted, but people shouldnt dismiss it for reasons like this, after all the developer purposefully left out a cover button.

    basically, it's marmite innit
  • wingZero21 #20 4 years ago

  • absolutezero #21 4 years ago

    Oh I got it, I just did'nt like it.

    Having an awful gritty "mature" theme only harmed what I thought of the game. It wants to be taken seriously, but with such a hacneyed approach and a horrible atmosphere (really a prison? How interesting), I just can't be bothered running through multiple grimy places shoot the same guys.

    Upcoming The Club DLC = Sewer Map Pack!
    Edited by 1 at 07/02/08 @ 17:24
  • _Price_ #22 4 years ago

  • Gaol #23 4 years ago

    Agree with SlackMaster - is this was a downloadable £20 game I'd be interested. Surely a High Score game like this is at home online.
  • Anthony_UK #24 4 years ago

    Play it again!

    Watch a couple of vid's first, then try and beat you first score, then beat it again!
  • sickpuppysoftware #25 4 years ago

    I liked the idea I just found the execution a bit clunky. I felt it should have been far more acrobatic and stylish. For a points and speed based game it just felt a bit wooden. Maybe the demo only having the slowest person in it was the problem and some of the faster characters are better.

    another Total Overdose fan here.
  • SEVQA #26 4 years ago

    If I wanted this type of gameplay i'll play Space Invaders thank you very much!
  • miiiguel #27 4 years ago

    In a nutshell, what most of you would like was a "normal" shooter, to complain about it because they never inovate.
  • BBIAJ #28 4 years ago

    @ SlackMaster:

    It's £24.99 online at Gamestation you know, and that's on the 360.
  • Bi50N Verified Head of Global Communications, THQ #29 4 years ago

    I played the demo, 'got' it, loved it. It's basically Stuntman: Ignition with guns, and I'm sure it will divide opinion equally, but good luck to it
  • hybridial #30 4 years ago

    "basically, it's marmite innit"

    Exactly. I love it. Other people will love it, just not everyone. Then we can all enjoy it in peace beating each other's top scores and shooting each other online.

    What Bizarre are saying is so obvious that them saying it is rather pointless, but I'm not going to criticise them because it's not like they're saying anything untrue.

    This is not a "bad" game, though. It's just not, just because it's different doesn't make it bad. Some people won't like it, that's fine, no game is made for everybody, after all, some of us really don't care for Halo and Call of Duty after all.
  • ronuds #31 4 years ago

    Didn't even bother with the demo because the videos looked so drab. I guess I'll give it a go since it's getting decent scores, but I'm not expecting much.
  • sharpfish #32 4 years ago

    Demo was rubbish. In most respects. It felt like a re-skinned Unreal Tournament not something 'new'.

  • SomaticSense #33 4 years ago

    I defintely 'get' the game. It's a score-based cross between a racing game and a typical third-person shooter where you have to memorise where the enemies (targets) are in order to get a high score and finish quickly. Am I right Bizarre?

    In that case I 'get' the game, but I just don't think it's either very good, or works very well.

    Combining aspects from two drastically different genres won't necessarily work as a decent full priced game. Saying people just 'don't get it' also doesn't make it work as a decent full price game.
  • dryden555 #34 4 years ago

    it is like a lightgun game where you memorize the targets and play it over and over again to get a better score. There's gamers out there who will love it but even more gamers will be bored by it I suspect. Eurogamer over-rated the game imho.
  • kestral #35 4 years ago

    I agree with Bizarre. I normally don't like the prolongued shooting but I can see a new / revived subgenre here. I can see a free-running game based on this with sk8te like controls and various other variations on taking the 2d highscore genre into a much more interesting environment. It takes the focus off the killing and more towards the game aspect of it all, it has basic rules, an definate start / end point, the sessions don't last long and within the rules you're free to do anything to get the best score. I can see this being a hit in professional gaming too as it is very much an e-sport kinda game.

    Well done Bizarre for daring to make a unique game.
    Edited by 2 at 07/02/08 @ 20:49
  • SteveB #36 4 years ago

    This game was always going to have a hard time because it's a new idea and it seems some gamers want every game in a genre to be the same. This games crap, back to COD4 repeat ad infinitum......
  • MightyMouse #37 4 years ago

    @absolutezero

    The theme's not serious at all, you can tell from the characters that it doesn't take itself seriously, just tries to be fun. But yes, marmite. Did you know that you either like marmite or westerns? Never both.
  • Fatfish #38 4 years ago

    Didn't really think that much of this the first couple of times I tried the demo. As there appears to be a bit of a gaming drought at the moment, I thought I'd go back and give it a second try. Glad I did.

    I see what they mean about 'getting it'. Once you move away from your preconceptions of what a shooter should be like, it becomes clear this is meant to be played and appreciated very differently.

    I'm certainly not one for chasing high scores in games. Normally I can't think of anything worse as a driving principle of a game. Geometry Wars and it's ilk really don't appeal. Neither did the high kudos/score chasing in PGR.

    Yet this reminds me more of something like SSX or Tony Hawk. The compulsion to better your last score, time or combo is really quite 'moreish'. The lack of deep back story or graphical flare isn't really an issue. It's very reminiscent(sp) of the Time Cop and those style of games. They are repetative, but the satisfaction comes from memorising and perfecting a level. I read in another review that it's a very much for the gratification of the player, as opposed to those who may be watching you play - although I'm sure a fast and clean run through would be impressive to watch for anyone else who plays and knows the game.

    Ok, so it's probably not amongst the best games I've ever played, however it's much better than I was expecting and I for one will definately be picking it up tomorrow. It's fun, engrossing and easy to pick up, with plenty of replay value - ticks a lot of boxes that many other (so called) 'Triple A' titles have sorely missed over the last few months (Kane and Lynch or Assassins Creed anyone?).
  • dryden555 #39 4 years ago

    what's "new" about the gameplay exactly?
  • login_name #40 4 years ago

    I understand the concept, I was excited about it because of the concept. After playing it however I don't feel you have delivered that concept. It's not anything like I expected, it's far to restrictive. It was described as a TPS meets Tony Hawks meets PGR. It isn't. Where is the speed? Where are all the so called skill combos? I expected jumping through windows/over crates etc, somersault, headshot, twist, headshot, land and roll, headshot ULTRA COMBO!!! shit going on. What we got was, plod, plod, shoot, shoot, run, shoot, run, run, run, run, headshot, roll, wait a little.......now shoot, run etc.

    I was looking forward to this and was totally let down by a by the numbers shooter with restricted levels, a timer and a "combo" bar.
  • jambolio #41 4 years ago

    " Primarily the game is a gameplay-driven skill-based title, and we are hoping that anti-videogame groups will see this shine through."

    Surely not! There I was expecting to be slave driven by a burly bloke with a whip and some gimp with bongos.
  • RamblinSydRumpo #42 4 years ago

    It's brilliant. It works for the same reason that Project Gotham et al work. Clear your mind before you play it because if you get this expecting Unreal Tournament or some plot heavy shooter you won't be impressed. Personally I think it's one of the best things I've played for ages. Well done BC.
  • ccfb #43 4 years ago

    The only way this game is not gratuitous is if someone mods the PC version to have your character leaping around doling sweets out to children and pensioners.
  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #44 4 years ago

    Developers SHOULD be allowed to tell gamers that they are wrong

    In the case where people are asking for a Gears of War cover button, clearly they have the wrong impression of the game. To keep moving and rack up kills in quick succession is clearly the point of the game, and they drill that into you in the tutorial videos. To reiterate it in a publicty statement on the internet is somewhat redundant.

    However, it would seem that significant numbers of people here understand what they did with the game, but are disappointed that they did not go far enough. The fun thing about MSR/PGR is that they reward you for doing stylish things in cars, like you see in the movies, principally big drifts in the first game. The difference with The Club is that cool, stylish things from the movies involving men firing guns usually involves more than just standard (in fact, given the lack of jump, some would say crippled) FPS mechanics. The likes of Max Payne, Total Overdose, Stranglehold and the Matrix games have already shown plenty of the sort of thing people expect from 'style' in shoot-em ups. Total Overdose even attached scores and a combo mechanism to it.

    Having a demo that plays (and looks) like the first level of Gears of War on fast-forward just isn't enough to make me interested in replaying it to memorise routes and enemy positions.
  • kangarootoo #45 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    You seem to be on a bit of a rant without any real prompting. As for devs telling gamers they are wrong, I'm not sure that really qualifies as dialogue.

    Besides which, it is not a balanced dialogue because the dev is the vendor and the gamer is the customer. That is a crucial difference. The job of a developer is to make a game that the target audience likes. If the target audience doesn't like it, the dev has failed. End of story. If the game was pitched at the wrong customer base then marketing has slipped up, but if the dev failed to fulfil the brief then that is where the responsibility lies.

    I understand everything you say about design decisions being made as a result of careful forethought, you know I do, but that doesn't make them infallible. However well intention a dev, if a majority of gamers say "I don't lke it" then the dev has slipped up.

    As for the gamer not being an expert. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE!! God, it drives me nuts whenever I see that same suggestion being raised time and time again. The customer paid for the product. THEY PAID. They don't need to be an expert in gamer development to be able to say whether they enjoyed the game or not and they certainly don't need qualifications in order to give feedback. The money in their wallet is the ONLY qualification they need.

    If a gamer says "I didn't have fun" then no dev can legitimately tell them are wrong. You can't turn to a gamer and say "well if you knew more about game development you would have had fun". The gamer would quite rightly respond with "I don't want to know about game development, thats what I pay you for, dumbass".

    "The point being, the developer and the end-user are not equals"

    Quite right. The dev is the vendor, the gamer is the customer. The vendor has an obligation to the customer to provide them with value for money. The customer has no obligation to the vendor whatsoever.

    "The creator deserves to be able to respond (preemptively in this case) to criticism in order to protect their creation. Its only fair."

    Pish and tish. Responding to critisism does little to protect anyone's creation if a gamers critisism is based on a nagative experience of the product. And your use of the term creation, rather than product, suggests to me that this is more about people's own personal feelings rather than anything else. And since when did "fair" have anything to do with anything in business?

    I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again. Anyone who can't take (sometimes irrational and unfounded) critisism of their product needs to toughen up or find another business to work in. Now I should make it clear I'm not levelling that comment at Ben Ward, as he has been perfectly reasonable in all of this and hasn't suggested for a second that gamers should zip it. My issue is with your "gamers aren't qualified to tell devs they don't like their games" attitude, which I just can't agree with.
    Edited by 2 at 08/02/08 @ 10:20
  • login_name #46 4 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    +1

    Also, remember that negative feedback is just as important as positive.
  • ParanoidZombie #47 4 years ago

    I love this game. I won't say it's better than x or worse than y, who gives a shit. But I enjoy every second of it, now that I'm used to the gameplay and combo-meter. Thank you Bizarre, you really nailed it! Hope the game sells, because online is fun but there aren't many players out there.
  • Freddie_Phoenix #48 4 years ago

    I think this whole thing is starting to smell like Lair. Anyone agree with me?
  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #49 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    It sounds like you're trying to say that consumers should just shut their mouths, and take what is given like the sorry bitches what they is.

    That's not a very helpful attitude.



    All this is getting a bit off-topic, though. In the original article, the bit about people not getting the concept of The Club is contained in the section:

    VG247: Are you pleased with the feedback?

    Ben Ward: We’re happy with how the 360 and PS3 demos were received...


    Bizarre were specifically asked about the feedback, which they were grateful to recieve, and their man is merely summarising it.




  • login_name #50 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    If you find it difficult to deal with criticism, constructive or otherwise, you're in the wrong industry. The customer has every right to express their opinion and we, as developers, should listen to it, filter out the crap and learn from it. Gamers know what they like to play, that's all the qualification they need. Is the customer always right? No, but that doesn't mean they are never right.

    You appear to have the opinion that, as a developer, you can do no wrong and the customer should shut up and take it. That's a tad arrogant, imo. At the end of the day you are never going to please everyone, but to then assume that the players who don't like your work are wrong in some way is ridiculous.

    I don't think this is what Ben is doing, by the way. I'm sure some people did expect a different style of game and should try it with a fresh perspective. I personally, as do others judging from the comments, want exactly what they promised but just don't feel they delivered on that promise.
  • kangarootoo #51 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    First off, let me address a specific point you made, because its actually made me a tiny bit annoyed.

    "Your argument is specifically what I find so appalling about internet culture: You take no responsibility for your own mistakes"

    I work in the games industry as a designer, which you or may not have known. I absolutely take responsibility for my mistakes, because to not do so would be unprofessional. If I have directly and purposely contributed something to a game, which in the end made the game less fun for the target audience.... that was MY fault and no-one elses. I failed in my role, hopefully I learned from the experience, HOPEFULLY I had the sense and professionalism to listen to the critisisms and improve myself as a designer by consequence.

    My JOB is to make games people enjoy playing, that is the REASON I get paid. If I for a second thought that my own burning inner artistic spirit alone was more important that serving the brief I get paid to serve... I would be unprofessional and would not deserve to work in this industry.


    Right, now I've got that off my chest, lets get back to more diplomatic discussions.

    We seem to be differing in our funamental principles here. I treat game making as a business first and foremost, a business which like any other puts the customers needs at the top of the stack.

    You seem to treat game creation as art first and business second.

    Let me take a part of your quote, because I think it explains a lot about the difference between our approaches.

    "The creative is responsible only unto themself."

    This really sums everything up to me. And my response would be simply this.

    "If you get paid to be creative, you are responsible to the person that pays you"

    The attitude that creativity has no master is franky immature and is responsible in no small part for the random state this industry is in compared to many other creative industries. Its is NOT a bedroom industry anymore and anyone who thinks it is should go set up their own company and roll their own dice.

    If a software house goes out of business because they keep producing games that people don't want to buy, you try telling an employee with a mortgage and family that "The creative is responsible only unto themself" and see what they say to you.

    If anyone I work with turned to their manager during a disagreement and said "I'm not responsible to you, as a creative I am responsible only to myself" I can't tell you how fast their ass would get fired.

    And unfortunately, due to apparent inner grumpiness, you are using extreme unrealistic examples to try and back up your argument. Strawman wiki links are making their way swiftly toward this thread.

    "you cant please everyone all the time"

    I quite agree, never said otherwise.

    "In my opinion (for whatever that's worth) ts an idiotic, narcissistic, and staggeringly selfish world-view."

    Again, I quite agree. But the world view you decscribe is a fabrication of your own and bares no relation to my own actual view. Polarisation might help you make a point, but it is ultimately futile if everyone reading this can see through the deception.


    Edit: Ah, just read the bit where you mention you have been in the business for 20 years. Clearly it has been too long for you and you've developed an enormous chip on your shoulder. I feel sympathy and hope I don't feel the same way when I reach 20 years, but I'm afraid I still can't agree with your attitude. I see where it has come from, but that doesn't make it right.
    Edit ends.

    I don't know if you work in the business. If you do I can only assume you have a very stressful life and that your attitude is born of some negative experiences. I know how it can be and if that is the case I am truly sorry you've had a bad run.

    If you don't work in the industry and are simply acting on the bahalf of the devs out there, I have to say you don't speak for all of us. You may speak for devs that also believe "The creative is responsible only unto themself" but frankly that attitude is burning a hole in the heart of game development and undermining our repeated attempts to tell everyone we aren't just some toy business for kids and nerds you know.

    How can we ever compare ourselves to established industries such as film, when we still persist with "boohoo, I'm a suffering artist in a land of philistines" attitudes that the film business left behind long ago?

    Edited by 3 at 08/02/08 @ 16:54
  • DjFlex52 #52 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    After your reading your last 2 posts I can see why you are such a PS3 stalwart/defender.
    Your arrogance is only overshadowed by Sony's arrogance over the last 3 years.
    "Buy a PS3, shut up and like it"

    edit: @kangarootoo ++
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/08 @ 16:55
  • kangarootoo #53 4 years ago

    Lets not all get on Arbiters case here. Me and him clearly disagree on some things, but I wouldn't be happy if it got all off balance with everyone ganging up.

    Balanced discussion is good, descent into insults is bad.

    Edit: Oops, fundamental typo. I meant to say lets NOT get on Arbiter's case. Corrected.
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/08 @ 17:33
  • miiiguel #54 4 years ago

    Must be fair in buisness prespective to listen and bow to bashers, but what about the ppl who do like the game(s) ?, I mean like we all know "haters" tendo to speak louder.

    Halo...
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/08 @ 16:58
  • ParanoidZombie #55 4 years ago

    ... and the game got good reviews so far: except for a few disgruntled forumites, no one is seriously saying/writing that the club is a bad game.
  • kangarootoo #56 4 years ago

    To be fair, he said "at the moment". Quake 3 hardly qualifies as current does it?
  • steninja #57 4 years ago

    it's a true gamers game. scores. simple. go back and do it better. get a higher score. compete with your mates or the rest of the world. not just chore your way to the end of a level in any 3rd person shooter just to watch a cut scene which is probably irrelevant (not a bad thing if it's done well). one of the most entertaining games of the last decade i'd say. "the club", "dead rising" and "stuntman". simple concepts but highly addictive and entertaining games.