BioWare's Zeschuk defends paid DLC

By Robert Purchese Published 15 July, 2010

"We're not gouging anyone," he insists.

Bearded BioWare boss Greg Zeschuk has insisted he's not "gouging" money from fans for multiple chunks of premium DLC.

"Honestly, people make the choice," Zeschuk said, answering a question from Eurogamer at a Develop panel yesterday afternoon. "We don't force them in any way to get the DLC.

"If they love the franchise or love the game, even if it's things that... I know in the case of Dragon Age that people were sceptical that people would buy a single piece of content because the game was so big.

"We're not gouging anyone," he added, "we're providing a really great deal for the price. People do make the choice themselves."

BioWare is in the vanguard of EA studios using 'Project Ten Dollar' incentives to ward off second-hand sales. In Mass Effect 2's case, first-hand buyers are given the DLC platform Cerberus Network for free, whereas second-hand buyers must purchase it for £10.

Post-launch Mass Effect 2 DLC has been deliberately alluring enough to persuade potential buyers they want a sealed, first-hand copy of the game. However, not all of this has been free, which means legitimate buyers are spending an extra £10 or £15 - on top of their initial £40 purchase - so as not to miss out.

Will the shelf price of a game ever decrease to accommodate this?

"The second concept, which I think is actually really strong one, is paying a different price for a base part of the game and then getting other stuff after that," said Zeschuk. "It's an interesting model. I don't know if it's episodic or a different type of model. It's probably something we'll see someone try."

"The challenge is of finding that nice initial price. One of the challenges of Episodic content is that you have a declining purchase rate and what your actually doing is splitting a $40 or £40 game into four pieces, but you're always going to make more with the initial episode.

"That might actually be different if 10 times as many people bought the first one," he added. "It's one of those spaces we'll see people exploring. We'd have to decide to do a game in the right way to take advantage of that, but that is something I wouldn't be surprised if we did try."

Microsoft experimented with offering Fable II espisodically on Xbox Live and charging a small price for each chunk. Fable III will use a similar model but for DLC, therefore offering the first chunks for free and then charging for subsequent episodes.

Greg Zeschuk has been buzzing around Develop in Brighton this week, delivering keynotes, attending sessions and having dictaphones thrust up his nose.

Luckily, Eurogamer's Wesley Yin-Poole was one of the first to accost the BioWare boss. His full interview with Greg Zeschuk will be published today.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (56) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Shikasama #1 2 years ago

    Is there a press release without the word 'space' in it these days?

  • metalangel #2 2 years ago

    Feel free to search for his infamous "bilk" comment back when Dragon Arse came out to see the reactions the last time he said this.

    EDIT: -4 for a statement of fact? I love you people.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 11:47

  • abigsmurf #3 2 years ago

    Dragon Age Origins implementation of DLC was, and is utterly shameful.

    If I'm in the game, I do not want to get involved in a subplot by having a lengthy conversation with an NPC only for him then to suddenly go "Now you can purchase the DLC to finish my quest for the low low price of £9.99!". It broke my immersion so badly I had to turn off the game.

    Bioware can't be criticised enough for this. To rub salt into the wounds, this was DLC offered when the game hit retail. Even if you bought the special edition, you still had to pay extra for this. If you're not gouging us Bioware then how were you able to offer Baldurs Gate 1+2 which both had much more side content than DAO did (which had very little in terms of dungeons not related to the plot) without charging for DLC? There is no excuse for launch day paid DLC other than profiteering.

    Then there's the expansion pack on PSN. £30.99 are you joking?

    As long as you keep ripping your customers off, you're going to take heat for it.

  • George-Roper #4 2 years ago

    Good, solid DLC is worth it but for some reason i've just not bothered with any paid-ME2 DLC. Even though I think the game is stonkingly good.

    I did play it through twice though, prior to this paid-for DLC being released (good and bad Shep). Perhaps thats why i've little desire to go back?

  • bad09 #5 2 years ago

    DLC. Without doubt the worst thing ever to happen to gaming and I've been here since the speccy.

  • Bodd #6 2 years ago

    Taking 6 months to address game-breaking bugs because you prioritise churning out shovelware dlc over supporting existing product, that's gouging.

  • sunjumper #7 2 years ago

    I really love the logic behind this.
    People get a game.
    The game happens to be really good and most people have tons of fun with it.
    Then they get a fresh piece of game dangled in front of their noses.
    They are still hyped up by the game they just played or are remebering it fondly.

    The the developer appears and dangles a juice new bit of the game in front of his nose.
    "Oh! What's this?" he asks.
    "Why a brand new piece of that favourite game of yours. With all these great new things you have NO idea about!
    If you only knew what happened to [insert character name here] in the secret government lab. Where he also met a cyber Samurai from the future! (Who can now also join your party) And it is only, just 10 $! That's like two beers. Right?"

    I can see many people standing in front of the temptation remaining calm and utterly rational, doing the sensible thing and voting with their wallet.

    Most if not all of the DLC backs are close to selling someone a novel and then a month later publishing an additional paper back (or a downloadable pdf file) that contains parts of the novel that were missing in the original book.

    But right. People want that.
    They are in no way manipulated on a base emotional level to create a carving for the product to override their more rational side in favour for more compulsive behaviour. (Which also is the reason why 'Stop eating so much.' is the best working advice for people on a diet known to man)
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 11:50

  • menage #8 2 years ago

    Bah

    At least be freaking honest,

    I don't see how asking money for a gun and a damn useless suit makes for decent practice.

    I don't mind them doing it, I do mind them talking crap.

  • mingster #9 2 years ago

    Bad09 + 1.
    Totally agree DLC is awful and i can honestly say i've never spent a penny on any DLC and never intend to either.
    It's for muppets.

  • Moribundman #10 2 years ago

    "BioWare is in the vanguard of EA studios using 'Project Ten Dollar' incentives to ward off second-hand sales."

    I'd have said they were more the Infiltrator of it...

    Edit: LOL someone marked this down. Apologies for offending you, whoever you are... ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 15:08

  • andywilkie35 #11 2 years ago

    Bioware - I love your games but your DLC plans are utter shite. Mass Effect 2 finished for me about a month before the first premium DLC came out, I'm not spending money to fire up a game I've already had a conclusion to.

  • Moribundman #12 2 years ago

    I agree with Greg.

    If someone releases extra content and you think that's a rip off, don't fucking pay for it. By the same token, don't make some sort of self-righteous posts on a gaming site about how you - personally - deserve to get all content ever released for free via the Cerberus network, OR that nobody else should have the opportunity of happily paying for it because you don't approve.

    The only thing I would agree with is breaking the flow of the game plugging DLC breaking immersion, but since I've never experienced that myself it's not affected me.

  • Mark1412 #13 2 years ago

    DLC isn't unanimously bad, you'd have to be a muppet to say so. Look at how Rockstar did it with GTAIV. Bethesda did a good job with some of the Fallout DLC, the Mirror's Edge time trials were fantastic and the likes of Rock Band are built on a solid DLC model. I suppose in some cases you could argue much of DLC should, or could, have been included in the respective games or offered at a lower price but I never begrudged Rockstar for charging what it did for The Ballad of Gay Tony because it was undoubtedly worth it.

    Obviously the other side of that is stuff like what Bioware do, at least with the ME2 DLC which has been wretched. DLC isn't terrible though, it just depends how the developer chooses to execute it.

  • Antaios #14 2 years ago

    I don't see much of a problem in forking over ten quid for a few hours of extra gameplay. They did that with so-called expansion packs on disc years ago and I honestly don't see anything inherently wrong with that. It's the the small stuff I have a problem with. Two quid for three guns, pound and a half for an extra costume, character or golf green, that sort of stuff.

    And even though Zeschuk is absolutely 100% right: the next person who says "you don't HAVE to buy it" gets a fist in the nose. Biggest clincher in the book.

  • Kami #15 2 years ago

    I have no problem with DLC - I have no problem expanding games I love either. There can and should be a happy medium, but the problem is Bioware have DLC to be bought right from the very off, and it's done in a slightly cynical way. The games are great, but I agree with others that the Dragon Age: Origins thing was bang out of order for anyone.

    The really frustrating thing for me is these used the be the kind of big, expansive games that came with extensive modding and scripting tools for the community to have a go at making new content! New places, new adventures, new enemies, even refining old missions and adding new bits and bobs to make them appealing. I miss those days. Because I'll be honest with you, as much as Bioware make great games - the userbase at large is often the place to refine, hone and polish a game. That we're moving away from that in the industry makes me very sad, and for what? More money?

    Does make you think...
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 12:10

  • TeaFiend #16 2 years ago

    Day one DLC, fair enough moaning about charges for it.

    But when a developer has spent time working on adding new content it is not unexpected to ask for cash, their staff need to get paid to eat. The developer is a company at the end of the day and that is a buisness. They are not there to make games to make people happy, they are there to make money.

    And as for the arguement that paid DLC did not exist before? How many PC games had expansion packs back in "the day"? And how many felt a bit tacked on? Charging for content is not new, the method is.

  • FuzzyDuck #17 2 years ago

    Every time i come against somebody on SSFIV wearing the DLC costumes, i can't help saying "sucker!" to myself.

    DA plus the expansion at my local gaming dungeon clocks in at ?75. Not exactly what i'd call value.

  • sunjumper #18 2 years ago

    I don't mind DLC in principle.

    As a digital distribution form of expansions packs they are fine. You get them convinently over the net, more of your money goes to the actual developers and you get a bit more life from your favourite game.

    I just find the way that it is marketed distasteful and I also do not like the form of most DLC.
    Having to pay for new clothes for your character? Even if it is only two dollars I can't really see why people should pay for that. To me it looks like an easy way to make cash. And while I don't mind people earning money through their hard work (I want more lovely games after all and I think the creators of those games deserve fame and fortune) it still reeks of cynical greed to me.

    Contrast that with the other news stories today.
    Game done?
    "Thanks for your hard work on your badly paid job and for all the unpaid extra hours you put in during crunch time. Now go away and steal some one elses time! Oh and also soon there will be DLC for this game! Don't forgett to buy it children!"

    No I can see how that is a fair system.


    The Dragon Age DLC that is actually an additional chapter that takes place after the the original game.
    I can see who that is actually a worthwhile expansion.

    But appart from that what I see is companies trying to milk their product dry.

    And this can't be simply be put at the consumers doorstep either.
    The PR, the hype and the price point are there to make people want the DLC above and byond rational thought.
    People giving in to those instincts are not idiots they are just following an emotional urge. Who here has not ignored a game for ages until he saw it in a bargain bin and bought it out of an impulse? Who has not smiled at a Steam sale and came out of it confused ladden with shiny new games having spent a small but still surprising amount of money?

  • StooMonster #19 2 years ago

    Simple, wait for the inevitable "Game of the Year" edition and get all the DLC included in the lower price. e.g. in Fallout 3 case that represents great value for money.

    Sadly, that's always been my plan ... but I am too impatient and end up buying game at full price, and if I like it (some) of the DLC too.

    Was looking at Forza 3 this week, and there's what ... ten? packs of DLC at 400 Microsoft points each.

  • Moribundman #20 2 years ago

    The "carved from the main game" shit is utter crap. In ME2 they programmed in code to allow for the inclusion of Kasumi, and presumably recorded the Shepard dialogue alongside the main game info, but the additional content wasn't put together until months after the game's release and voiceovers along with everything else were included in that download. Same goes for Overlord. With DA, the full voiceover for Leilana's song was recorded post release, and Awakenings while not worth £30 (where the hell did you get that figure from?!) was well worth the £15-20 I paid on XBLA. It's essentially a semi-sequel with entirely new resources. Did you pricks all cry about Oblivion: The Shivering Isles, Half Life Opposing Force and Baldurs Gate 2: Throne of Baahl?

    With regard to the Shale and Zaeed issue, yes, these were integrated characters removed but not in a cheap trick kind of way, it was the equivalent of the sort of extra content you get when buying a special edition, only you just pay the standard amount if you buy it new. I wouldn't go out and buy Red Dead standard edition (or SE second hand) and then cry about the fact I didn't get the golden guns/warhorse/deadly assassin. Would you?

  • UKLL #21 2 years ago

    ME2 is one of my favourite games of all time but I have no interest in firing up a game to play DLC all these months after finishing it.

  • Moribundman #22 2 years ago

    @EarlBasset But I *demand* all DLC be free! And they should pay the voice actors to go back to the studio and do this free DLC. But I still disapprove because the extra missions that they made 6 months later should have been in the main game but were cut out because they hadn't thought of or developed them yet, the bastards. EA EA blah blah fucking blah...

  • Dapper_Dan #23 2 years ago

    I don't necessarily dislike DLC, but I don't like how Bioware seem to implement it. In DA:o Shale definitely felt "carved out" in order to wring extra money. Also the way they implemented the pre-order items for both DA:o and ME2 was bad.
    Having uber-powerful gear right from the start of the games negated most of the loot in the main game, at least up until right at the end. Gear getting incrementally better as you acquire gear over the course of a game is one of the main drawcards of these types of RPG (that and stat-point level ups) but got undermined by having amazing gear straight off. Some of the pre-order stuff was best-in-slot gear for the whole game.
    IMO Rockstar did DLC items way better with RDR, i.e. the DLC outfit still had to be earned in game by completing certain objectives, and Bethesda did quest DLC for FO3 better, good solid 4-5 hour episodes, that felt new and not ripped from the main game.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 12:51

  • metalangel #24 2 years ago

    @TeaFiend: You're the first to mention the "they're a business, not a charity" thing, I was wondering if it was ever going to turn up.

    I often cite PC expansion packs/mission discs/etc as examples of how it used to (and should be) done. Yes, they cost about a third what the original game had, give or take, but they always had enough content to justify the cost. Trying to sell an extra gun or suit of armour or whatever in those days would have got you laughed at. I don't object to a big expansion like Gay Tony or South Central or Shivering Isles as they are substantial additions.

    It's the dripfeed of tiny amounts of overpriced crap and stuff blatantly removed from the main game that gets everyone's backs up. Unfortunately for us, as you say, this method makes selling this shit easier than it ever was.

  • actionfitz #25 2 years ago

    ""We're not gouging anyone," he added, "we're providing a really great deal for the price."

    not when you release really short and crap dlc for high prices mate.

  • Moribundman #26 2 years ago

    FOR FUCKS SAKE THIS "CARVED OUT" BULLSHIT HOLDS ABOUT AS MUCH WATER AS A DEHYDRATED GNAT'S BLADDER.

    You got a good deal on the game by waiting and buying second hand, but you've missed out on some neat extras that you'd have got if you bought it new. Exactly as you would if you bought a special edition second hand and someone had already used the code for the additional content.

    Shale and Zaeed were not "day one DLC carved out of the game for cynical money grabbing purposes", they were an optional part of the main game that you could quite happily play without, but got the full benefit if you bought the game new.

    Nobody who did this was in any way duped and they got the content absolutely free. Only casual/second hand purchasers who weren't that bothered to buy it new have to pay for Cerberus or the DA DLC. And if you really like the game, you have the choice whether to spend $10 on top of your second hand price (which is likely to still be cheaper than buying the game new - CeX has Dragon Age for a tenner now) or you can happily ignore it.

  • Jocho #27 2 years ago

    You get what you pay for, it's really not more complex then that. Some (who obviously are drawn to these debates) consider cosmetic items to not be worth their money while games (see Battlefield: Heroes) are completely driven by it. If I consider a nice texture for my character and perhaps some item to be worth $2, I'll buy it. If I don't, I won't buy it. But I can't expect to get "free stuff". I've bought the game, the game is what I get. Not the game plus a bunch of other stuff. The same goes with additional episodes. I pay a bit more, and I can get a bit more out of my game and enjoy the world a bit longer.

    The game wouldn't get all those DLC:s that completed the game if it wasn't for DLC. It would just be an incomplete game. We've played those before DLC came, and we'll likely play them in the future. But now we can actually get them, because the developers have an incitement to complete them!

    And here many of you go out and to cast blame on a developer because they're expanding a game you enjoy, just because you don't wish to pay for it? Look who's greedy, and reconsider who should bear the shame.

  • Rubarack #28 2 years ago

    Bioware's DLC is manifestly overpriced and while not absolutely obligatory there was some shameful behaviour regarding Dragon Age in which the game felt blatantly incomplete without it.

    What I'd like to see is a 75% off sale for Mass Effect 2 DLC when the GoTY is released. If that happened I'd accept it as a fair mix of good business sense and fair customer treatment.

  • Dapper_Dan #29 2 years ago

    @Jocho "The game wouldn't get all those DLC:s that completed the game if it wasn't for DLC"
    Bullshit. Both Shale and Kasumi were done, recorded and finished either at or very shortly after release. Before DLC those would been in the main game.
    "And here many of you go out and to cast blame on a developer because they're expanding a game you enjoy, just because you don't wish to pay for it?"
    Except in Bioware's case, they didn't "expand" the game, they carved from it, then sold us the bit they'd carved back to us for extra.
    When a DLC truly does "expand" a game, as in the case of Fallout 3, or GTA IV, I'll be at the front of the queue to buy it. But when it feels like it's all been done in a money grabbing and mean spirited way then I won't be buying it.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 13:15

  • Moribundman #30 2 years ago

    @Rubarack Which bit of Dragon Age DLC made you feel rendered the main game incomplete?

    * Shale (which was absolutely FREE if you bought it new)
    * Watchers Keep and Return to Ostegar (which you could quite merrily complete the game without even knowing about)
    * Awakenings (which was a totally separate campaign and retail release and essentially Dragon Age 1.5)
    * Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song (which are seperate from the main plot and need to be started as a separate game)

  • Dapper_Dan #31 2 years ago

    @ Moribundman
    How about the guy standing in your party camp who gave you a quest, then said "Now to finish your quest, just buy this DLC!"
    I'd say that counts as making the game feel blatantly incomplete.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 13:19

  • Moribundman #32 2 years ago

    @Dapper_Dan

    Yup. Shale was done when the game was released. Shale was completely free and you got the unlock code in the box when you went to the shop and gave the man some money to take the box away and put it in your disc drive.

    Kasumi wasn't. Code was in the game to incorperate Kasumi, but no character model, voiceovers, level resources or anything else. This was produced after the game and made avauilable post-release IF YOU WANTED IT. Nobody held a gun to your head and made you download it, and Kasumi isn't even mentioned in the main game outside of the DLC.

    You may be confusing Kasumi with Zaeed, for which see Shale.

  • GiarcYekrub #33 2 years ago

    I think DLC is perfectly reasonable business model as long as the core product is still worth its value which I'd say DA and ME2 definately are.

  • Dapper_Dan #34 2 years ago

    Yep, Kasumi wasn't. Before DLC, the game would likely have taken an extra couple weeks to release, but it would be complete.

  • Moribundman #35 2 years ago

    @Dapper_Dan As I said in way back my above post, it breaks immersion and should have been left to the title screen to prompts for DLC, but you don't need to talk to that guy, and it only that one bit of DLC which does that (I think that was also included like Shale if you got the digital deluxe version for PC).

  • Dapper_Dan #36 2 years ago

    Yes, you could choose to not talk to him, but you had to know beforehand not to do so, so it still made it feel incomplete, whether or not you accept the quest.

  • anomagnus #37 2 years ago

    I've never understood the anger, the actual rage people seem to exhibit over DLC. Its optional, very often it adds virtually nothing to the main game, and for the most part is aimed at the people who are going to buy it anyway, i.e. people that love a game. For example, i love ME2. I'm playing through it for the 7 or 8th time this year. I just enjoy it, so i buy al the DLC, and i've loved all of it, because they work within the greater framework of the game. Even firewalker works, if you spread the missions out.

    Now, if the DLC was say, the actual end game boss, then yea, i'd be spitting with rage. If you couldn't finish the game without paying for it, then i'd be right there with other forumites, spitting blood.

    But thats not the case. For the most part, this is just optional stuff, that is the same as buying a cheap mag or something. Its an impulse purchase, and to be quite frank, i've often found most of the forum rage about DLC to be hyperbole, and people giving out over the internet for the sake of it.

    In terms of dragon age, was it cheeky to have someone in the game ask you to get DLC? it sure was. Fortunatly for me, i bought the special edition, and then bought all the available DLC at launch, so i didnt have any jarring game moments. On my second playthrough, the Return to Ostogar, if you go to it when it first becomes available, fits really well.

    DLC is digital counterpoint of say car mods. You don't need a big spoiler or fancy wheels to make a car go, but if you like them, why not buy them?
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 15:44

  • LHH #38 2 years ago

    Most of Mass Effect 2's DLC has to be bought. According to EA $10 = some p.o.s armour and gun

    Also, resistance is futile, Bioware have been assimilated into EA

  • Moribundman #39 2 years ago

    @LHH Nobody EVER said all DLC was going to be free. Shale = $10 if bought separately, free w new game. Zaeed/Firewalker/Cerberus Armour/guns = $10 if bought separately, free w new game.

    Other DLC nobody ever pretended this would be given away for free.

    What made me laugh was that when the post-release free DLC (Firewalker, armour) came out, people were moaning that it wasn't big enough. When they release some big paid DLC they get accused of chopping it out of the main game... Some of you people will really feel cheated over absolutely anything.

    Anomagnus is utterly right with the car analogy. I also wonder if some of the people moaning about the paid DLC armour have ever dressed their little Xbox/PSN avatar up in some bought clothes or paid for a theme/home content...

    edit: You DO know that $10 is about £6.50 and that is less than the difference between RDR and RDR:SE right? To Rockstar OVER $10 = some MP3s, different coloured guns, a better horse and a "p.o.s. alternate skin"... Didn't catch Rockstar being assimilated by EA, and I like RDR:SE's optional extra content just as much as ME2's.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 14:04

  • linksdad #40 2 years ago

    By the very nature of DLC of course you are gouging. A tiny percentage of game purchasers will buy it so it has to be overpriced to account for the small sales. The low sales are offset somewhat by the low dev cost. DLC can be added by a couple of level designers on mature dev tools that shouldnt require the full games dev set up that the original required.
    For the full game you get everything for your (say) £40. most DLC is
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 14:09

  • TeaFiend #41 2 years ago

    @link'sdad:
    How do you make the system that add's and loads the DLC? Ensure it works correctly with the game? Manage the time allocated? Deal with the first party to have it added to their service? Choose what goes into it? Playtest it? Generate hype for it? Create the art assets?

    It is more than a few level designers with a map making tool.

  • LHH #42 2 years ago

    Didn't catch Rockstar being assimilated by EA

    I was more thinking of their increasingly action oriented games. Not a bad thing but certainly a 'dumbing' down of sorts. I guess easier games = more profits.
    brb, firing up ma wii

  • RexRunti #43 2 years ago

    For all those bitching about Zaeed and Shale, if you didn't get them with the game then Bioware got exactly 0% of the £20 you paid when you bought it second hand, so why do they owe you anything? As for Zaeed/Kasumi and Overlord in ME2 it all lifts right out of the game none of the other characters ever refer to them have any conversations with the new characters or say anything during the missions. I don't feel ripped off for buying these add-ons, nor do I feel that these extras should have been in the game from the beginning. I do think that the alternate costume packs are a bit of a rip-off, so guess what, I never bought them.

    Dragon Age is a little different because of the stupid in game advertising, but again I don't regret buying Watcher's Keep (though I wouldn't be quick to recommend it), love the expansion and steered clear of the other ones due to the reviews (though haven't seen any for Lelianna's song yet).

  • Raiftel #44 2 years ago

    My experience with DLC was as such. Bought Dragon Age day and date, got Shale. Played through once, loved the game. Played through again a second time a few months later. After that I left the game. At the start of this month I bought awakenings off of Amazon for £15 and got all of the DLC for 2000 points or £17.50. What I got for my buck were two mini-adventures which gifted me in game equipment (Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song) which provided a fun diversion for a few hours each and in Leliana's case kept the high standard of storytelling from the main game. In the main game I got two new quests which lasted me about an hour each and helped flesh out the world and understand the place of certain characters and factions again, and then I've got an extra twenty hours of brand new gameplay waiting for me once I kill the Archdemon again.

    So essentially for thirty quid, I got a few hours of side stuff, some new stuff in the main game which enhanced my personal enjoyment of the experience, and what amounts to an entirely new games worth of new content.

    I'm perfectly happy to support the developer in this way and given how Dragon Age encourages replay I always felt the incremental additions to the main campaign were a good idea to keep things fresh. What is irritating are in game prompts which lead to you having to make purchases. I'm assuming that these ingame microtransactions are going to become more and more prevalent and are going to become less irksome but, like the rest of Dragon Age, it could have done with a little polish.

    I love DLC, when done right. Stuff like the co-op missions in Red Dead, General Knoxx in Borderlands, Knights of the Nine/Shivering Isles in Oblivion, even the winter island in Fable 2 offer experiences which feel like far more refined and interesting than the main game. DLC is not just additional content, it's a way for developers to address concerns and issues and complaints and make a product which benefits from this feedback.

  • metalangel #45 2 years ago

    @RexRunti: You want to buy my used coffee table? Only, I'm keeping the magazine shelf that fits underneath. If you want to be able to put magazines on the shelf underneath the table, you need to go to the furniture store and pay them for a new one as only the original customer is entitled to the full functionality of the table.

    Or you could just buy a new table from the store... except the coupons to get the free magazine shelf expired in April* so you'll need to pay extra anyway.

    Once you have the complete table with shelf, you'll be really disappointed by the quality of it (it bends under the weight of even a local newspaper), and wonder why you bothered.

    *not strictly true for some of the DLC, but you see my point

  • Silvervein #46 2 years ago

    Opinions about DLC vary from person to person.

    Here's what I think. When it comes to roleplaying games, neverwinter nights 2 (and it's expansion, mask of the betrayer, great game and equally great addition) follow the route of how it should be done. They offer you large, interesting story to follow and fun game to play around with. Expansion, sold separately, adds again a huge chunk of content and story. It is just worth the funds. On top of that. Community does get modding tools.

    The way bioware does it, especially with mass effect 2 dlc, is to make a nice game with a lot of story, and then goes ahead and tries to sell people two textures of for a price that's 1/40th of the full game, or so. What does that add to the game? And more importantly, why are those textures so pricy? Did the texture making guy get a raise or married ceo's daughter? Not to mention that their way of making expansions that, story wise, float outside story of main game is like a writer selling a book, and then selling little booklet that's one chapter worth, that doesn't add anything to the story.

  • Acrid #47 2 years ago

    I love the way 'Project 10 Dollar' translates to 'Project 10 Pound', oh no wait, I don't actually.

    DLC is the worst thing to hit the gaming scene since Bobby Kotick, and the worst thing about DLC are the skins and map packs which are just disgusting to charge for, we used to get this shit for free on PC, Microsoft and their damn marketplace are to blame.

    Did I offend an Xbox fanboy?
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 16:55

  • Moribundman #48 2 years ago

    Lot of negativity around today kids. Seems pro and anti DLC comments are all suffering...

  • Acrid #49 2 years ago

    "We're not gouging anyone, we prefer the term rape"

    Fixed

  • Darth_Flibble #50 2 years ago

    If the DLC is worth it then I'll buy it, 3 out of the 5 Fallout 3 dlc was great and I still play them (Op anchorage: wish I waited till the price dropped) I played all the Dragon age DLC (apart from the newest one and awakening) on my mate's console and found them all lacking and lazy. They felt like they were knocked up quickly for some quick cash. I'm sure all the DLC sold quite well as some gamers will buy anything despite the quality.

    my problem is people will buy anything like costumes and horse armour, developers will simply go for the lazy option of cheap and quick DLC if it sells better than a more expensive mission pack.

    instead of all the crap Dead Space DLC we got, I would rather of played a prequel mission aboard the ship during the initial outbreak or what happens after the credits to lead into the next game

  • djed #51 2 years ago

    Buyer's remorse.

  • Moribundman #52 2 years ago

    @Darth_Flibble You definitely missed the best two mate. Aside from Shale, which I don't class as DLC. By comparison all the other downloads look crap. Awakenings is essentially a new game. If you liked the main game this is on a par with Broken Steel or Point Lookout, only larger.

  • Murton #53 2 years ago

    I agree with a lot of the criticisms above but in Bioware's defence, at least the main plot to their games is satisfying and complete, unlike some developers who intentionally leave things unresolved in order to sell DLC later.

    I do wish they'd do something about the price of Awakening on the PS3 though, I've stopped playing Dragon Age completely because I know that I'll want more at the end but as we stand now Awakening is prohibitively expensive, almost as much as a full game and significantly more expensive than it is on other platforms which always annoys me.

  • Collymilad #54 2 years ago

    Sorry but although i think a lot of their DLC is good, they did charge $7 for a storage box in Dragon age, which had an inventory that got full about 2 hours into it.

    And yes, i know it wasn't JUST the chest, but if you wanted it, the price was the same.

  • BigJonno #55 2 years ago

    @metalangel

    I see what you're getting that, but when you go into a furniture store, you don't see used coffee tables alongside (or even in place of) the new ones, for only a few quid less. There are no salesmen trying to push the used coffee tables over the new ones and encouraging you to trade in your existing coffee table for a tiny sum so that they can mark it up and sell it to some other guy instead of a new coffee table.

    It's the retailers who will push everything towards download-only, sooner or later. If the stores that sold my product worked on a model designed to sell a single one of my products over and over again while only paying me once, I think I'd be inclined to do something about it.

  • Fathom #56 2 years ago

    Christ, you people saying DLC is the downfall of gaming are complete fools. Zeschuk is completely correct. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. You buy the initial game for it's purchase price, it is complete as it is right then and there. You get a full game. If you are dissatisfied with the amount of content you get, it's your own fault for not doing research on how much bang for your buck there is. With most good games, there's plenty. If no further DLC ever game out for said game, nobody would say anything about it missing anything. But when DLC does come out, all of a sudden you were shafted or now you're being gouged.

    And to everyone saying the map packs and skins are so horrible for gaming; of course they are, that's why you don't buy them. It's very very clear line between proper DLC and bad DLC.