BioShock is CliffyB's GOTY

By Tom Bramwell Published 17 September, 2007

Although he doesn't like bees.

Gears of War designer Cliff Bleszinski says BioShock is "hands down" his game of the year, and that the game's big plot twist is his "top moment in gaming history, bar none".

Writing on his blog, the no-nonsense developer said his favourite part of Irrational - sorry, 2K Boston's - first-person shooter was the acclaimed "Fort Frolic" section, which he compared to Kubrick's The Shining.

Story-telling in general came in for praise - particularly the "passive narrative" approach of letting the player investigate tape recordings if he or she wants, rather than shoving it down the player's throat [surely "ear" - Ed].

But despite singling our the telekinesis plasmid for praise ("Half-Life 2 and Psi-Ops have been beaten"), he wasn't as keen on some of the other plasmids, particularly the swarming bees one. "Does anyone really want to fire bees at anyone in a videogame?" he asked. The next paragraphs suggest he definitely didn't.

Head over to www.cliffyb.com for the rest, but beware of spoilers.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (87) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DanWhitehead #1 4 years ago

    What about a game in which you shoot tiny people at giant bees?

  • Dizzy #2 4 years ago

    The bees are the best power!!! Love em :) I wish they would make honey ;)

  • Xerx3s #3 4 years ago

    and that the game's big plot twist is his "top moment in gaming history, bar none"

    No wonder his games lack good storylines. I liked BS a lot but the storyline was pretty predictable in general lines from the get go. Especially if you played SS2.

  • Katsumoto #4 4 years ago

    The bees horrify me utterly.

    Not convinced telekinesis works as fluidly as the gravity gun in HL2, nor that the plot twist is as "FUCK!" as the one in Kotor, as "WOAH" as the moment you step out of the MJ12 base in Deus Ex, but still, Bioshock is clearly a great game. Just wish it would run without crashing every 30 minutes. Bah.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/07 @ 10:04

  • DanWhitehead #5 4 years ago

    The thing I love about the plot twist is the way it's delivered. As well as making sense as part of the narrative, given the importance of "freedom of choice" in both the game's concept and execution, it also works as a sly commentary on the way we play videogames.

  • peteb #6 4 years ago

    i would say it definitely is not "soulless"

  • jack_klugman #7 4 years ago

    System Shock 2 > Deus Ex > BioShock.

    In my opinion.

  • Aurifex. #8 4 years ago

    Thers are bees as weapons in Strangers Wrath too.

  • Jontacular #9 4 years ago

    Quick heads up - this seems to have found its way into the news section?

  • newt #10 4 years ago

    it also works as a sly commentary on the way we play videogames
    My thoughts exactly.

    And bees ftw, no argument about that!

  • /meshrugs #11 4 years ago

    Be nice if they patched the fucking game so i could play it with out crashing every 10 seconds

  • Agent_Llama #12 4 years ago

    The bees rock, one of more useful plasmids.

    If Cliff's top moment in gaming history is the plot 'twist' (who honestly couldn't see it coming a mile off?) he needs to play more games.

  • GrandpaUlrira #13 4 years ago

    What's the plot twist?

  • DanWhitehead #14 4 years ago

    Whether you saw it coming or not, the twist is beautifully executed. Surprise is not the only factor in whether such a narrative device works. I suspected who the twist would involve, but the "W**** y** k*****?" reveal caught me off guard and made me grin from ear to ear. It's fantastically written, and that's a rare treat in videogames.

  • Moz #15 4 years ago

    Could of put a spoiler warning you b*****ds!!!!!!!!

  • chicknstu #16 4 years ago

    There was a plot?

    Oh... you mean those bits where they stop you controlling it, and I went off to make a cup of tea!

  • WrongShui #17 4 years ago

    Dan, no ones gonna break that code! You're a freaking windtalker!

  • DanWhitehead #18 4 years ago

    "Wobble yon knickers"

  • Salubrious_K #19 4 years ago

    The plot twist is that it all turns out to be a dream, instead you are a WWII soldier who was having a particularly bad nights sleep, the final third of the game involving helping the invasion of Normandy

  • TwistidChimp #20 4 years ago

    @chicknstu

    Naa, more the bits gleaned from the hundreds of audio recordings you could choose to pick up ;)

  • afghan_jones #21 4 years ago

    COuld they patch it so it doesnt freeze up every 5 steps i take please? At the minute the game is pretty much broken as far as im concerned.

  • Monkey_Puncher #22 4 years ago

    I agree, Fort Frolic was definetly the best level!

  • wizbob #23 4 years ago

    Telekinesis annoyed me; I fumbled pulling a key through a window as soon as I got the plasmid and a whole game area got cut off from me. I hope there's nothing important down there because I can't be bothered going back to an old save.

  • Chaote-Imagicka #24 4 years ago

    He thought the TK was better handled in this than PsiOps? Right...

  • afghan_jones #25 4 years ago

    The TK in this was shit. Psiops TK was utterly brilliant and made you feel like a god. hurling soldiers into walls over and over before launching their battered corpses at the mates was genius. also that bit with massive stone balls to chuck about.

  • rock27gr #26 4 years ago

    So his favorite game is the one he worked on! Surpise surprise.

    With so many megatons coming out between now and the end of the year, it's a bit premature to call GOTY yet, but then if you're CliffyB...

    By the way, that "passive-aggressive" narrative thingy sounds a lot like how Metroid Prime did things all those years ago.

  • menage #27 4 years ago

    " Whether you saw it coming or not, the twist is beautifully executed. Surprise is not the only factor in whether such a narrative device works. I suspected who the twist would involve, but the "W**** y** k*****?" reveal caught me off guard and made me grin from ear to ear. It's fantastically written, and that's a rare treat in videogames.
    "

    Exactly. The whole thing of who and what you are may have been obvious at some point. But the ***** *** ****** bit wasn't. That was fucking brilliant.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 11:04

  • FooAtari #28 4 years ago

    Doesnt get it... Didnt get anjoyment from Bioshock at all. Pre-ordered the game, avoided as much coverage as possible to get the best experience. And... nothing. I genuinely cant see what all the fuss about.

    But anyway based on the reviews I can see this getting a few GOTY awards.

  • BBIAJ #29 4 years ago

    Cliffy B:

    "The above products (BioShock & Stranglehold), utilize Unreal Engine 3 which we produce. They just so happen to kick ass and I'm friends with a great deal of the people who worked on them so the least I could do is plug their amazing titles."

  • Bumhug360 #30 4 years ago

    So he isn't saying Unreal Tournament 3 is goty? Does this mean its crap or wont it be out this year?
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 11:21

  • sharpfish #31 4 years ago

    And he has no vested interested in the technology/revenue from the title?

    I thought cliffy b would/could see beyond the hype/them/story and look at the gameplay itself which is sorely lacking. Not only this but it's technically not up to scratch with it's contempories in areas of controls, bugs, tension, variety.

    I HATE SPLICERS! they are the single most boring, stupid, non threatening enemy ever created.

    hey but everyone's entitled to their opinion right? ;) BS is not my game of the year so who care's what cliffy B's is?

  • Sebo #32 4 years ago

    First time playing through Bioshock, I thought "over-rated", "predictable" and "in no way revolutionary".

    For some reason though, I'm just about finished my second play through of the game, and I have really, really, really enjoyed it. Almost so much that I've had thoughts that the 10/10 might have been justified.

    Strange how opinions change.

    Got to agree with earlier comments, it's not the actual story in Bioshock that is particularly good, just the way it is told.

  • dolphan #33 4 years ago

    TK better than the gravity gun? What is this guy on? I love Bioshock as much as anyone, but throwing grenades back at Nitro Splicers just ain't on the same level as slicing headcrab zombies in half with whatever comes to hand.

    As for the twist, it was bloody good - not entirely unpredictable, but then neither is Deus Ex's, and definitely not KOTOR's. They still work brilliantly.

  • sharpfish #34 4 years ago

    "There was a plot?

    Oh... you mean those bits where they stop you controlling it, and I went off to make a cup of tea!"

    While exaggerated, this is my whole problem with BS (and it's overrating). The fact is everyone is creaming about some 'story' and occasionally nice graphics... the actualy gameplay is boring and tension less and just when you start to get into it there is another 'slow down' or boring trawl through the levels to find some items, much the same as most games from the past 20 years and in no way 'revolutionary'.

    If killing splicers was actually fun rather than a tedious annoyance then the game would feel a lot better.. it feels slack, unfinished and poorly paced.

    The only good stuff are the Big Daddies/LS combos but they loose their effect of 'uniqueness' after the first few encounters.

    I wouldn't be this hard on the game if it was recieved as merely a good game but the reviews and the hype coming out of everyone's pie hole is just unbearably wide of the mark. The guys who think this is the 'best game ever' really need to play more games and polished/finished ones with intrinsic gameplay fun at that.

  • Sebo #35 4 years ago

    I agree it's not the best game ever Sharpfish, and in no way is it perfect, but which games do you think are better?

  • Darren #36 4 years ago

    Well BioShock is MY game of the year.

    Why?

    Well because it's one of the few games I enjoyed so much that I didn't want to finish it. In fact, the fact that I did complete it was perhaps the only disappointing thing about the whole game really... it was that good. Oh and I wasn't too amused about that forced update that turned my smooth-running game into an erratic hitch-fest that slows to a crawl whenever a Big Daddy appears (360 version by the way)! :(

  • sharpfish #37 4 years ago

    Oh and now way is TK better than the Grav gun (and i'm not massive HL2 fan either). Was playing HL2 after giving bioshock a rest (through boredom) after fort frolic.

    HL2 straight away felt solid and polished, the grav gun feels powerful and purposeful. TK in bioshock works so strangely that you just get the 'feel' for it, it just becomes a needed tool once or twice in the game rather than something you use for fun or as an alternative method to sort something out.

    From the moment I used TK I didn't like how poor it felt.

    It's like BS ticked all the boxes but never polished the ticks before placing them, everything is thrown in from other shooters (and of course it's spiritual predecessor SS2) but none of it is as accomplished as in the other shooters.

    They spread too much too thinly rather than honing the gameplay to suit.

    And rapture itself was very poorly realised compared to how it was talked about in previews and by the dev team (should have known really). It's just a few over saturated (really, I like colour but tone it down guys - this looks like cartoon land!) interior box sections with a pretty skybox which is pretty lame for 2007 by anyone's standards.

    And yes if Cliffy B really thinks this is GOTY then I am very worried about UT3 (which I've been waiting for since the last game).

  • zuljin #38 4 years ago

    Hmm, didn't know there were that many people out there that didn't like BS!

    Defo my game of the year. I didn't see the any of the plot coming, whereas usually I'm quite good at predicting stuff like that. I haven't played a single player game so nicely executed in a long long time.

    My only niggle with it is that the last 1-2 levels I just rushed through because I wanted to know the storyline, rather than play for fun.

    I think it probably helped that I knew absolutely nothing of the game beforehand, and knew of no hype whatsoever...
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 11:41

  • sharpfish #39 4 years ago

    sebo > for gameplay alone Deus Ex, System Shock 2 are better

    For all round (polished with gameplay) Half Life 2, Far Cry

    and technically stuff like Doom 3, Quake 4 etc all feel 'solid'.

    I just know people are going to take each of those games and pick them apart but this isn't about 'other games' it's about BIOSHOCK being completely underwhelming compared to the reivews and compared to even SS2 in the gameplay stakes.

    Seriously i have no need to proove my point to strangers, if you think BS plays beautifully (PC) and has all the fun, tension and technical excellence a PC game in 2007 should have then enjoy it, i'm not trying to spoil it for anyone but for me I can see past that pretty theme and somewhat interesting 'story' and I want to know where the gameplay is.

    You can get through the entire game by electro shocking and whacking splicers on the head with the wrench, they respawn as a cheap way of keeping 'the challenge' going but there is little challenge at all (even without using vitachambers) so much crap lying around that you are always topped up.

    Worst of all is the interaction between you and enemies during fights, it all feels so sloppy and unrealistic (virtually ANY other good FPS game shows how this should be done), I mean you can unload bullet after bullet into a splicer and they take forever to go down (that's 2k's way of presenting a 'challenge' apparently) not it's just tedious and unrealistic. they should have used the environment and better AI instead of reliance on scripted events and respwaning 'homing' idiot wrench fodder with homer simpson voices which are just a chore to work through when you are trying to get into the game.

    Games are about 'light and shade' action and reflection time... you just get constant action in your face in Bioshock, which would be so bad if it was actually fun!

    Big Daddy battles are far better but as I said, you can't get back that feeling of expectation and 'fun' once you've been through the mill for a few levels, it just tails off and all you are left with is the 'plot' to entice you on.

    Sorry but books are for reading and stories in games should ALWAYS come secondary to great gameplay not the other way around. I want to play my games not 'listen' to them with some abitrary poorly paced action in between.

    BS does many good things (lots of things better than some other FPS) but it lets itself down, and if you or anyone (inc Cliffy B) can't see this as evidence that the game wasn't properly finished/polished/tested before being rolled out early (so it didn't compete with Halo 3/crysis etc) then you are naive.

    The game needed another 6 months cooking just to get the basics polished (PC version has some terrible flaws that are so obvious once you load up another good PC FPS game), the game design itself is still lacking 'something' because even in a more basic game like HL2, shooting combine is actually 'fun' when they go down, it feels visceral, you feel in control.. in BS everything is 'soft' and 'fussy' and overly busy, and the capped animation updates on the physics and NPC animations are a joke.. on my 8800gtx system BS runs very well but the animation is unbelievably lame compared to games from even 3 years ago.

    If you can't see it then you can't see it, it doesn't make those of us who can see it, wrong. Maybe you believed the hype too much but I ALWAYS take a game how I find it (Inc poorly reviewed ones; which have been good for me on occasion) and BS is a let down it's a simple as that. Once the really good games come out you will this was all story/style over substance.

  • menage #40 4 years ago

    Pff, all these critics, go play something else then. I personally think it craps all over Half Life 2. Those boring sections and the ants could have been dumped right away.

    Runs.

  • miiiguel #41 4 years ago

    Xerx3s: what you mean predictable. Bioschock wasn't supposed to be unpredictable..., it's just an awesome story. Did you hear Jasmine (Jack's real mother)Audio Diary ?

    sharpfish: yeah, yeah... it's cool to ditch a game everyone's praising, in two or three years a new awesome game come around, and you'll say, it's BS! Bioshock was the thing!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 11:54

  • t8yman #42 4 years ago

    the plot twist that I pretty much sussed out in about 3 hours of playing it?

  • sharpfish #43 4 years ago

    Menage > how does fuck off sound? I will talk about a game I bought just as much as anyone, just because I think it's over rated doesn't mean I can't discuss it.

    You idiot, you think from now on everyone who has issues with anything in life just has to stay quiet so the devs don't learn from their mistakes and make better games next time?

    Boy, your utopia sounds cool but totally unworkable

    and I AM playing something else (a few games actually) but this discussion is about BS and Cliffy B's ulterior motives and or poor judgement. The guys is being a tool on this one because he hasn't even PLAYED all the games from this year yet (so many good ones still to be released)

    IF that isn't 'vested interest' then it's fanboyism which is far worse coming from Cliffy.

    Now.. if you LIKE the game so much YOU go off and play it instead of telling others what they can and can't say.

  • miiiguel #44 4 years ago

    t8yman: it's not "that" plot twist, it's to know who's Jack's real mother and father.

  • The-Bodybuilder #45 4 years ago

    Playing bioshock is like watching a great, hyped independent movie fromk france.
    All the critics love the art an emotion, but you can't help but feel it's just a black and white film about a maid and a dripping tap.

  • menage #46 4 years ago

    "Menage > how does fuck off sound? I will talk about a game I bought just as much as anyone, just because I think it's over rated doesn't mean I can't discuss it. "

    Very civil off you, Everyones entitles to their own opinions. But your aggressive line off talk goes way beyond a normal opinion. Downgrading every piece of game which a lot off people like does get you where exactly?

    Also you just added a lot off shit I didn't even say. So maybe you could go fantasize somewhere else. I just meant to say you shouldn't get so worked up.

  • sharpfish #47 4 years ago

    Oh and this plot twist deal... when have games been about plot twists? this is what I'm not getting.

    People are raving about the fact that some faceless game character finds out that his parents are someone and his "friend" is someone else... that would be worth 'film of the year' sure (if it was in a film) but what the hell has that got to do with interaction?

    This is nothing more than a 3D version of those old CD-ROM FMV games (the 7th guest etc), everyone moaned about how story was taking away basic interaction and gameplay back then (I was there, i've been around games for a long time going back to the Atari VCS) and now we have more story in games (not bad in itself) but it's completely derailing the gameplay and the new 'media hungry' generation just don't see it, they lap it up as a new story telling device rather than questioning "Where is my part in this 'story'".

    Games were supposed to be about empowering the player to feel like they were in a different role not read out canned scripts to them, challenge and reward were the corner stones of games - there is no 'reward' in BS unless you think the story is better than any generic poor selling novel from the bottom shelf or you local book store.

    I'm out of this thread now, but no GOTY of mine will ever be a glorified novella with a pretty skybox, it will be something that immerses me and is excellent in all areas (without needing to 'excuse' it's flaws).

  • miiiguel #48 4 years ago

    sharpfish: cool down mate, Bioshock is awfull, and you know better what video games are supposed to be... heck! you've been around since Atari VCS!.

    There you go...
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 12:07

  • Dizzy #49 4 years ago

    I bet the "Bioshock is overrated" people are the same that like trolling with "Halo is overrated".

    "Overrated" is the new emo.

    And BTW it is *only* a fucking videogame. Stop pretending games have to have the same level of storytelling as a super good book. If you need that.. stop playing and start reading.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/07 @ 12:27

  • Calgon #50 4 years ago

    sharpfish yeah you fuck off let menage have his opinion if he feels BioShock pisses all over Half-Life2. The problem is when people are forcing their opinions on others and basically being really subjective and then offensive when met with anything but agreement(I've had that before in the forum and found it really pathetic), plus half of what youve said, I know for a fact Id disagree with because Ive played some of those games in the list you gave and thats without playing BioShock. You bought the game? so did alot of people who disagree with you, the hypocrisy is with you, you are basically saying "no you're wrong, shut up while I have my say and dont disagree with it or I'll start getting abusive and make even more posts saying the same thing but longer, after I tell you I have a right to voice my opinion but dont want to hear yours".

    Oh and SS2 > Half-Life and Half-Life2 IMO, we'll see about BioShock :) not arguing about your opinion of it thats fine doesnt change a thing, just remember thats all it is, your opinion.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 12:31

  • newt #51 4 years ago

    The twist was predictable (especially for Tau Ceti vets) BUT the execution was just something else. The early tagline makes much more sense now..

  • sharpfish #52 4 years ago

    Calgon, menage was the first person to try to supress others thoughts by telling us to 'go play other games'

    it's really simple to understand. I didn't even say he was 'wrong' to prefer BS to HL2 (I don't even like HL2 that much myself).

    Why does all the arguments have to come down to OTHER GAMES? I've said MORE than enough about BS itself but no-one wants to counter those issues but keep dragging other games into it.

    Re-read what I wrote before menage told me to 'go play other stuff' and you will I highlighted a number of issues why I didn't think the game lived up to GOTY for me. I even said if "you" enjoy it then great because i'm not trying to spoil it for anyone so how you think that is trying to force my opinion on anyone is beyond me.

    BS does just enough to convince many people it's amazingly special but I have higher standards and I can see through the gloss to the inherent flaws both in technical execution and gameplay progression. YOu can't, big deal. I'm not that bothered about it..



  • miiiguel #53 4 years ago

    Sharpfish is in love with himself.

    By the way, what's this crahsing "thing" in Bioshock ? The game hasn't crashed once in my box..., I'm on my third play through.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/07 @ 12:32

  • Calgon #54 4 years ago

    sharpfish it always comes down to other games... thats your measuring stick(its the same with consoles or other hardware, its common sense whether its concious or not), dont try and hide that part its transparrent(its normal infact it would be strange if not).

    Like I say Im going to make my own mind up when I play it Im not arguing with your opinion of it(youve made your mind up obviously) and I dont want to read to much before I do play it(which is hard to do when these arguements start... I stop reading when it goes to far into detail, kind of unnecessary dont you think? here atleast anyway).

    I will say though that I do really like SS2 so naturally Ive been looking forward to BS, anti-hype can be a good thing too so Im not going to let either side of the fence sway me before Ive played it(best way to be).
    Edited by 3 at 17/09/07 @ 12:42

  • RichGL #55 4 years ago

    sharpfish, your a complete fuckwad aren't you? It was YOU who first mentioned other games, it was YOU who first started insulting people because they disagreed with your opinion.

    Plus you didn't even know how to use the TK properly, possibly because of being a complete FUCKWAD.

  • miiiguel #56 4 years ago

    RichGL, dude..., can't you see, he has higher standards!

  • sharpfish #57 4 years ago

    No calgon, the fact that the mouse control is fucked in BIOSHOCK has nothing to do with other games. The fact that the sound channels cut out durinig firefights has nothing to do with other games. The fact that the gameplay is dull and repetitive but just about get's away with it due to it's theme and story is also not down to other games.

    The fact that most reviews gave the game 10/10 and proclaimed it as a world changing event when it's merely "a good game with some flaws" has nothing to do with other games.

    I've been waiting for BS for a long time (as a lot of us have) and it let me down. If you look at the review on here for it (10/10) before I played it, I was all in agreement, I congratulated EG on having the balls to give a decent game 10/10... I had previously talked about this game more than any other on forums and stuff, based on early previews, news and dev talk and assumed it would be 'at least' as good as SS2 had been to play but with the gorgeous rapture theme to work with.

    I played it and from entering Neptunes Bounty and up till after my first Big Daddy fight I thought it was a 'good' game, I assumed it was going to get better and deliver this 10/10 experience (in gameplay) i was sadly let down by finding the technical flaws and the gameplay contrivance, the splicers being a poor and non intimidating enemy... i turned to the story to 'pull me through' but gave up caring after yet more let downs on the gameplay front.

    If you can't understand my ranting is ALL about this game and only this game and the way it didn't live up to MY expectations then there is no getting through to you.

    miiguel > you are correct, I am in love with myself and I love the sound of my voice which is cool when i'm correct 99% of the time ;)

  • sharpfish #58 4 years ago

    lol you guys are entertaining.

    I attacked someone who attacked me directly. YOU attack someone who hasn't even previously addressed.

    who is the fuckwad again? :) :)

  • sharpfish #59 4 years ago

    Rich GL > I was *ASKED* to mention other games that I thought were better. The ONLY game I mentioned previously to that was HL2 which I used as example of how the control felt tight (just as an example for those that had played both). That wasn't comparing the two because even without HL2 Bioshocks control is still sub par.

  • Pike #60 4 years ago

    Didn't you write that you where done with this thread, Sharpfish?

    Attention whore.

  • Wite_Noiz #61 4 years ago

    @sharpfish
    That is the most random comment I've ever seen.
    You dis plot twists (read story lines) in a game and then say that your next favourite game "will be something that immerses me and is excellent in all areas"... without an interesting and twisting storyline? Really?

    Throwing my own opinion in to the festering stew, gameplay without a story is as useless (in a computer game) as a story without the gameplay.
    I can only think of RTS/TBS games where this isn't so true, because you create your own storyline.

    Hundreds of games use it almost as a reward to the gamer for sticking on: Deus Ex, SS2, KOTOR 1 & 2, Dark Messiah, HL (but not so much HL2) even Sands of Time.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 12:49

  • menage #62 4 years ago

    "Calgon, menage was the first person to try to supress others thoughts by telling us to 'go play other games' "

    No, I wasn't. But I wouldn't write a 5 page novella about why I think a game is not worthy of praise. If you think about how much work, time, effort and vision something like BS, HL, or any other game worth mentioning is needed. I find it really concerning that some people in forums to convince everyone that the game a lot of people love is actually crap. Can't we just bitch about a game which actually deserves all this negative comments, like all the EA crap in the Christmas chart. I think this game is downgraded by a lot of people while it's a very high quality product. Maybe not up your alley. But that's taste and arguing about taste is useless.

    Thousands of people love BS. You don't, that's fine. That''s what I meant in my first comment. anyone can find flaws in a so called "masterpiece" like HL2. I could find 100 in BS, but what's the use. I would sell myself pretty short if I did. I play to have a good time, it's a game, maybe even art, but it's still a vision by a team of people which is bound to get anally dissected. Maybe that's even proof enough of it's quality. Otherwise we wouldn't have this thread turn out the way it did. It may divide lovers and haters, but that's sign of a important product. Otherwise everyone would go meh or asking for the space giraffe review.

    And for the record. I like a good plot in games. Otherwise it's impossible for me to be immersed. The plot in BS lifts it above the average shooter. If I don't know why the hell I should someone or kill Ryan, etc, what's the point.. I can't shoot for shootings sake.

  • JediMasterMalik #63 4 years ago

    By the end of Bioshock I was quite dissappointed with how I felt about the game, despite the crazy plot twists, it's not my GOTY.

  • Calgon #64 4 years ago

    JediMasterMalik see thats how its done. "But your opinion is wrong sorry to tell you muahahaha" :D

  • BadBoyBonner #65 4 years ago

    **Spoiler Alert**

    Two things for me gave most of it away.

    1) Was the Atlas poster, an the crap excuse he came out with after seeing it - would have been much subtler to have said nothing, so you could have twigged at the end (even though it was obvious he was going to double cross.)

    2) The one-armed-bandits at Fort Frolic - as it became even more obvious that the character that you are playing is very small - and the only other characters in the game that are small are the little sisters.

    Does that make you a little brother?

    And is that why the character you play casts no shadow - which seems a bit odd at time in the game.

    When I put the Big-Daddy suit on - it reminded me of Star Wars where Leia say's to Luke "Your a bit small for a stormtropper aren't you!" lol
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/07 @ 13:21

  • glaeken #66 4 years ago

    ****spoiler alert*****


    The plot twist was surely W**** Y**** K****

    The fact you were double crossed or were going to be double crossed from the begining was obvious and would have been to anyone who has played a game with a "plot"

    Now dropping into that room with W**** Y**** K**** scrawled on the wall with blood and then have Ryan explain it to you fully was just great execution and gave something you had been hearing all game with out thinking anything of it suddenly great meaning.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 13:24

  • Cylinder #67 4 years ago

    SharpFish makes some noisy but valid points. I thought BioShock was quite under whelming. It had so much promise but I found the gameplay lacking.

    STALKER is my GOTY so far (although with HL2:E2 and Crysis so close who knows?).

  • menage #68 4 years ago

    "
    2) The one-armed-bandits at Fort Frolic - as it became even more obvious that the character that you are playing is very small - and the only other characters in the game that are small are the little sisters."

    Are you on crack. Your still towering over the little sisters.

    @Glaeken

    Spot on.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 13:50

  • miiiguel #69 4 years ago

    HL2:E2 and Crysis ? Haven't played those yet...

  • Sebo #70 4 years ago

    Sorry Sharpfish, I seem to have landed a backlash on you for asking you to tell me which games you thought were better. Hostile bunch out here I see.

    Personally, I liked Bioshock, still am liking bioshock, but it wasn't as enjoyable as my other favourite games of recent times, Gears of War, resident evil 4, metal gear solid 3 and zelda: twilight princess.

  • menage #71 4 years ago

    "I attacked someone who attacked me directly. YOU attack someone who hasn't even previously addressed. "

    Jeez, if that was considered an attack you've got some issues. You're the one telling people to fuck off and calling people fuckwad.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 13:55

  • Cylinder #72 4 years ago

    @Miiiguel "HL2:E2 and Crysis ? Haven't played those yet..."

    That was my point - I havn't played them yet but they are very close to release and they do look very good. One of them may top STALKER for my GOTY.

  • Pulsar_t #73 4 years ago

    It's overrated, get over it.

    But for some strange reason I kept coming back to finish the bloody thing.

  • samadriel #74 4 years ago

    I enjoyed Bioshock (I say it in past tense because after three playthroughs, I've returned to Splinter Cell and STALKER -- it's not exactly as compulsive an experience as Deus Ex was!), but it definitely isn't 'game of the year' for me. The craft that's gone into Bioshock is truly impressive from visual design and narrative perspectives (the utter demolition of Rand and Milton Friedman in the game's timeline is as thrilling as any of the actual gameplay, and a squillion game designers must be kicking themselves for not coming up with BS's twist on free will first), and it runs like a dream on my adequate PC, but 2k simply didn't have the ambition to make a world-beating slice of 'game of the year' action; its trappings are supreme, but its fundamentals are merely adequate. It doesn't have HL2's terrific gunplay (and TK being better than the gravity gun? Remind me, which gravity weapon requires you to hold a button down to maintain your grip on something? Yeah, exactly), Deus Ex's multiple strategies and replayability, STALKER's genre-fusion and advancements in 'ecological' AI... It's just a solid but simple shooter that talked a lot bigger in the development stages than it could walk on our screens, and which has some really ingenious aesthetics attached. If 2k's artists, writers and coders learned some Ukrainian and trotted off to GSC, then maybe we'd have a worthy 'game of the year' (heck, game of the decade!)

    edit: I was calling 2k/Irrational 'Bioware' -- silly me!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 23:24

  • Daymare #75 4 years ago

    @(not so)sharpfish

    "hey but everyone's entitled to their opinion right? ;) BS is not my game of the year so who care's what cliffy B's is?"

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not cliffyB - and if someone likes Bioshock, his opinion is wrong, right?:)

    "The guys who think this is the 'best game ever' really need to play more games and polished/finished ones with intrinsic gameplay fun at that."

    So Kristan and just about every reviewer, who basicly plays games for a living, need to play more games so they will be on *your* level and understand how wrong they are about Bioshock?:)

    "BS does many good things (lots of things better than some other FPS) but it lets itself down, and if you or anyone (inc Cliffy B) can't see this as evidence that the game wasn't properly finished/polished/tested before being rolled out early (so it didn't compete with Halo 3/crysis etc) then you are naive."
    "If you can't see it then you can't see it, it doesn't make those of us who can see it, wrong."

    Yes, yes, we're all naive and wrong and we bow to your Greatness so you can show us the light! (not) If you say our opinion is naive, I can say your opinion is stupid. There. Balance restored.

    "You idiot, you think from now on everyone who has issues with anything in life just has to stay quiet so the devs don't learn from their mistakes and make better games next time? Boy, your utopia sounds cool but totally unworkable"

    Yeah, sharpfish, you need to teach those devs how to make *real* games 'cause they're all clueless compared to your infinite knowledge. Talking about who lives in utopia (or in his own ass)..

    "Now.. if you LIKE the game so much YOU go off and play it instead of telling others what they can and can't say."

    Why don't you then go play all the other so much better games and stop troll.. err, telling other people what makes a great game?

    "Oh and this plot twist deal... when have games been about plot twists?"

    Why can't games have plot twists? Especially the kinds that are actually relevant to the medium? Bioshock is not *about" a plot twist, but it has a story that has much more of an impact if it's presented with/through a plot twist. But, judging from your posts, I presume everything that is good about Bioshock flew way over your head, so you don't have to answer that.

    I could go on, but I've spent enought time on this already. In vain, probably, 'cause nothing will get through your thick skull. It's not us, that are stupid and blind and cannot see how bad Bioshock is. It's you who is stupid and blind and cannot see how good Bioshock is. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right?

    As someone said: "sharpfish is in love with himself." Too bad your ego got in a way of your completely justified (and many times correct) arguments about this game. Learn some fuckin' manners:)

    EDIT: Read, for instance, samadriel's post. See, thAt's how you present your view, opinions and knowledge:)
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 14:29

  • menage #76 4 years ago

    "does that make these games better than Bioshock?, of course it does. Bioshock is good, but does not stand up to repeated play"

    I don't agree. I rarely play games a second time, but BS at least made me play it twice. Now you're judging BS on not having MP which is the lamest argument ever. Halo 3 could last 6 hours if you don't count MP, you don't know.

    I find it rather curious that you state that ME for instance will last you longer. Maybe it's so crap you won't last 2 hours. Comparing BS with games you haven't played yet is kinda weird.

    And losing their minds when a HP game is released. You just said 4 games which are just that are instantly better than BS. What's that then?
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/07 @ 14:50

  • kangarootoo #77 4 years ago

    "I get setting people ablaze, because, you know, it's pretty funny. (Well, except when it's a monk setting himself on fire on purpose in order to protest a war or something like that.)"

    Jesus, its like a looking glass into the mind of a child.

  • kangarootoo #78 4 years ago

    Oh jesus, the rest of that bees rant is just painful.

    "I'm a really funny dude, the other dudes I hang with (and the two girls I know) tell me I'm really funny too, and they say I should totally do standup like Bill hicks, but I tell them I'm just too busy kickin' ass at laser quest to be bothered".

  • SteveB #79 4 years ago

    NickyD_o I agree that Bioshock is not worth 10/10 (although still one of the best games this year and still well worth playing), but to rate games on how long they last you is just plain silly.

    It reminds me of a friend who always used to put on a Dire Straits song on the dukebox in my local. Not because he liked it, but because it lasted 12 minutes and he would get more song for his money !!

  • zuljin #80 4 years ago

    @NickyD_o
    "Games that will last me longer than Bioshock,
    ...
    does that make these games better than Bioshock?, of course it does. Bioshock is good, but does not stand up to repeated play, the gameplay is not as solid/fun as other FPS games."

    Definately disagree. What matters to me is the impression. I've finished it, probably won't replay (not immediately anyway), but I can't stop thinking about how fantastic I thought it was.

    I've had some games which were abysmal, but so addictive that I've ended up playing them longer, but I prefer the former scenario.

  • WiseNail #81 4 years ago

    @ Daymare

    Don't hold anything back mate! :)


    @ Sharpfish

    Ouch, not really your day on the Forums mate.


    Anyway, all this talk about GOTY, surely Hour of Victory has that accolade already.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 15:03

  • SteveB #82 4 years ago

    Nah, Two Worlds GOTY gets my vote.

  • chicknstu #83 4 years ago

    Finish this sentence;

    Cliffy B's opinion is important because......

  • YourMessageHere #84 4 years ago

    Cliffy B's opinion is important because...

    ...we're out of emetics.

    ...I was just saying to myself, what would make today complete is some egotistical asshat engaging in some public nepotism.


    ...his games sell more than Ken Levine's have done in the past, so naturally he knows much more.

    ...I just can't seem to get to sleep without help nowadays.

    ...I'm collecting sources for my thesis: "The rise of manufactured celebrity culture in modern video game marketing strategy".

    ...Bioshock's script, story direction and plot twists are almost as good as the ones in Unreal Tournament or Gears of War.

    ...it's important to not anger him, I hear he's hard core or something and could stab your face off in minutes.

  • PastyMuncher #85 4 years ago

    @ zuljin

    +1

    you hit the nail on the head there.

  • Drpwnage #86 4 years ago

    The set piece initiated when you place the third photo into Sander Cohen's 'Masterpiece' was a truly outstanding and memorable gaming moment. As I was twirling along with the music to face the next Splicer I realised the intention of the designer was for you to perform a 'dance' for Cohen, this was just brilliant, brilliant gaming, so much so I have played it 3 times in a row and have kept the save position!

    I agree with Zuljin, it is stand out memorable moments in games that I look for these days, there are plenty of highly polished but forgettable games out there.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/07 @ 20:38

  • paulf #87 4 years ago

    it may have a semi-decent plot, with a nice twist but does this make up for lack of really interesting gameplay, which i thought was generic fps fodder. And the twist is a narrative event not a gameplay event per se, ie you dont even have control over it. Unlike say getting the gravity gun in hl2.

    Saying that Bioshock does have some of the best uses of music (the 'god bless the child when you first get the decision of what to do with the little sisters is inspired) and the art direction is superb. However apart from all this the game ultimately left me feeling cold.