BioShock is CliffyB's GOTY News

What about a game in which you shoot tiny people at giant bees?

The bees are the best power!!! Love em :) I wish they would make honey ;)

and that the game's big plot twist is his "top moment in gaming history, bar none"

No wonder his games lack good storylines. I liked BS a lot but the storyline was pretty predictable in general lines from the get go. Especially if you played SS2.

The bees horrify me utterly.

Not convinced telekinesis works as fluidly as the gravity gun in HL2, nor that the plot twist is as "FUCK!" as the one in Kotor, as "WOAH" as the moment you step out of the MJ12 base in Deus Ex, but still, Bioshock is clearly a great game. Just wish it would run without crashing every 30 minutes. Bah.

The thing I love about the plot twist is the way it's delivered. As well as making sense as part of the narrative, given the importance of "freedom of choice" in both the game's concept and execution, it also works as a sly commentary on the way we play videogames.

i would say it definitely is not "soulless"

System Shock 2 > Deus Ex > BioShock.

In my opinion.

Thers are bees as weapons in Strangers Wrath too.

Quick heads up - this seems to have found its way into the news section?

it also works as a sly commentary on the way we play videogames
My thoughts exactly.

And bees ftw, no argument about that!

Be nice if they patched the fucking game so i could play it with out crashing every 10 seconds

The bees rock, one of more useful plasmids.

If Cliff's top moment in gaming history is the plot 'twist' (who honestly couldn't see it coming a mile off?) he needs to play more games.

What's the plot twist?

Whether you saw it coming or not, the twist is beautifully executed. Surprise is not the only factor in whether such a narrative device works. I suspected who the twist would involve, but the "W**** y** k*****?" reveal caught me off guard and made me grin from ear to ear. It's fantastically written, and that's a rare treat in videogames.

Could of put a spoiler warning you b*****ds!!!!!!!!

There was a plot?

Oh... you mean those bits where they stop you controlling it, and I went off to make a cup of tea!

Dan, no ones gonna break that code! You're a freaking windtalker!

"Wobble yon knickers"

The plot twist is that it all turns out to be a dream, instead you are a WWII soldier who was having a particularly bad nights sleep, the final third of the game involving helping the invasion of Normandy

@chicknstu

Naa, more the bits gleaned from the hundreds of audio recordings you could choose to pick up ;)

COuld they patch it so it doesnt freeze up every 5 steps i take please? At the minute the game is pretty much broken as far as im concerned.

I agree, Fort Frolic was definetly the best level!

Telekinesis annoyed me; I fumbled pulling a key through a window as soon as I got the plasmid and a whole game area got cut off from me. I hope there's nothing important down there because I can't be bothered going back to an old save.

He thought the TK was better handled in this than PsiOps? Right...

The TK in this was shit. Psiops TK was utterly brilliant and made you feel like a god. hurling soldiers into walls over and over before launching their battered corpses at the mates was genius. also that bit with massive stone balls to chuck about.

So his favorite game is the one he worked on! Surpise surprise.

With so many megatons coming out between now and the end of the year, it's a bit premature to call GOTY yet, but then if you're CliffyB...

By the way, that "passive-aggressive" narrative thingy sounds a lot like how Metroid Prime did things all those years ago.

" Whether you saw it coming or not, the twist is beautifully executed. Surprise is not the only factor in whether such a narrative device works. I suspected who the twist would involve, but the "W**** y** k*****?" reveal caught me off guard and made me grin from ear to ear. It's fantastically written, and that's a rare treat in videogames.
"

Exactly. The whole thing of who and what you are may have been obvious at some point. But the ***** *** ****** bit wasn't. That was fucking brilliant.

Doesnt get it... Didnt get anjoyment from Bioshock at all. Pre-ordered the game, avoided as much coverage as possible to get the best experience. And... nothing. I genuinely cant see what all the fuss about.

But anyway based on the reviews I can see this getting a few GOTY awards.

Cliffy B:

"The above products (BioShock & Stranglehold), utilize Unreal Engine 3 which we produce. They just so happen to kick ass and I'm friends with a great deal of the people who worked on them so the least I could do is plug their amazing titles."

So he isn't saying Unreal Tournament 3 is goty? Does this mean its crap or wont it be out this year?

And he has no vested interested in the technology/revenue from the title?

I thought cliffy b would/could see beyond the hype/them/story and look at the gameplay itself which is sorely lacking. Not only this but it's technically not up to scratch with it's contempories in areas of controls, bugs, tension, variety.

I HATE SPLICERS! they are the single most boring, stupid, non threatening enemy ever created.

hey but everyone's entitled to their opinion right? ;) BS is not my game of the year so who care's what cliffy B's is?

First time playing through Bioshock, I thought "over-rated", "predictable" and "in no way revolutionary".

For some reason though, I'm just about finished my second play through of the game, and I have really, really, really enjoyed it. Almost so much that I've had thoughts that the 10/10 might have been justified.

Strange how opinions change.

Got to agree with earlier comments, it's not the actual story in Bioshock that is particularly good, just the way it is told.

TK better than the gravity gun? What is this guy on? I love Bioshock as much as anyone, but throwing grenades back at Nitro Splicers just ain't on the same level as slicing headcrab zombies in half with whatever comes to hand.

As for the twist, it was bloody good - not entirely unpredictable, but then neither is Deus Ex's, and definitely not KOTOR's. They still work brilliantly.

"There was a plot?

Oh... you mean those bits where they stop you controlling it, and I went off to make a cup of tea!"

While exaggerated, this is my whole problem with BS (and it's overrating). The fact is everyone is creaming about some 'story' and occasionally nice graphics... the actualy gameplay is boring and tension less and just when you start to get into it there is another 'slow down' or boring trawl through the levels to find some items, much the same as most games from the past 20 years and in no way 'revolutionary'.

If killing splicers was actually fun rather than a tedious annoyance then the game would feel a lot better.. it feels slack, unfinished and poorly paced.

The only good stuff are the Big Daddies/LS combos but they loose their effect of 'uniqueness' after the first few encounters.

I wouldn't be this hard on the game if it was recieved as merely a good game but the reviews and the hype coming out of everyone's pie hole is just unbearably wide of the mark. The guys who think this is the 'best game ever' really need to play more games and polished/finished ones with intrinsic gameplay fun at that.

I agree it's not the best game ever Sharpfish, and in no way is it perfect, but which games do you think are better?

Well BioShock is MY game of the year.

Why?

Well because it's one of the few games I enjoyed so much that I didn't want to finish it. In fact, the fact that I did complete it was perhaps the only disappointing thing about the whole game really... it was that good. Oh and I wasn't too amused about that forced update that turned my smooth-running game into an erratic hitch-fest that slows to a crawl whenever a Big Daddy appears (360 version by the way)! :(

Oh and now way is TK better than the Grav gun (and i'm not massive HL2 fan either). Was playing HL2 after giving bioshock a rest (through boredom) after fort frolic.

HL2 straight away felt solid and polished, the grav gun feels powerful and purposeful. TK in bioshock works so strangely that you just get the 'feel' for it, it just becomes a needed tool once or twice in the game rather than something you use for fun or as an alternative method to sort something out.

From the moment I used TK I didn't like how poor it felt.

It's like BS ticked all the boxes but never polished the ticks before placing them, everything is thrown in from other shooters (and of course it's spiritual predecessor SS2) but none of it is as accomplished as in the other shooters.

They spread too much too thinly rather than honing the gameplay to suit.

And rapture itself was very poorly realised compared to how it was talked about in previews and by the dev team (should have known really). It's just a few over saturated (really, I like colour but tone it down guys - this looks like cartoon land!) interior box sections with a pretty skybox which is pretty lame for 2007 by anyone's standards.

And yes if Cliffy B really thinks this is GOTY then I am very worried about UT3 (which I've been waiting for since the last game).

Hmm, didn't know there were that many people out there that didn't like BS!

Defo my game of the year. I didn't see the any of the plot coming, whereas usually I'm quite good at predicting stuff like that. I haven't played a single player game so nicely executed in a long long time.

My only niggle with it is that the last 1-2 levels I just rushed through because I wanted to know the storyline, rather than play for fun.

I think it probably helped that I knew absolutely nothing of the game beforehand, and knew of no hype whatsoever...

sebo > for gameplay alone Deus Ex, System Shock 2 are better

For all round (polished with gameplay) Half Life 2, Far Cry

and technically stuff like Doom 3, Quake 4 etc all feel 'solid'.

I just know people are going to take each of those games and pick them apart but this isn't about 'other games' it's about BIOSHOCK being completely underwhelming compared to the reivews and compared to even SS2 in the gameplay stakes.

Seriously i have no need to proove my point to strangers, if you think BS plays beautifully (PC) and has all the fun, tension and technical excellence a PC game in 2007 should have then enjoy it, i'm not trying to spoil it for anyone but for me I can see past that pretty theme and somewhat interesting 'story' and I want to know where the gameplay is.

You can get through the entire game by electro shocking and whacking splicers on the head with the wrench, they respawn as a cheap way of keeping 'the challenge' going but there is little challenge at all (even without using vitachambers) so much crap lying around that you are always topped up.

Worst of all is the interaction between you and enemies during fights, it all feels so sloppy and unrealistic (virtually ANY other good FPS game shows how this should be done), I mean you can unload bullet after bullet into a splicer and they take forever to go down (that's 2k's way of presenting a 'challenge' apparently) not it's just tedious and unrealistic. they should have used the environment and better AI instead of reliance on scripted events and respwaning 'homing' idiot wrench fodder with homer simpson voices which are just a chore to work through when you are trying to get into the game.

Games are about 'light and shade' action and reflection time... you just get constant action in your face in Bioshock, which would be so bad if it was actually fun!

Big Daddy battles are far better but as I said, you can't get back that feeling of expectation and 'fun' once you've been through the mill for a few levels, it just tails off and all you are left with is the 'plot' to entice you on.

Sorry but books are for reading and stories in games should ALWAYS come secondary to great gameplay not the other way around. I want to play my games not 'listen' to them with some abitrary poorly paced action in between.

BS does many good things (lots of things better than some other FPS) but it lets itself down, and if you or anyone (inc Cliffy B) can't see this as evidence that the game wasn't properly finished/polished/tested before being rolled out early (so it didn't compete with Halo 3/crysis etc) then you are naive.

The game needed another 6 months cooking just to get the basics polished (PC version has some terrible flaws that are so obvious once you load up another good PC FPS game), the game design itself is still lacking 'something' because even in a more basic game like HL2, shooting combine is actually 'fun' when they go down, it feels visceral, you feel in control.. in BS everything is 'soft' and 'fussy' and overly busy, and the capped animation updates on the physics and NPC animations are a joke.. on my 8800gtx system BS runs very well but the animation is unbelievably lame compared to games from even 3 years ago.

If you can't see it then you can't see it, it doesn't make those of us who can see it, wrong. Maybe you believed the hype too much but I ALWAYS take a game how I find it (Inc poorly reviewed ones; which have been good for me on occasion) and BS is a let down it's a simple as that. Once the really good games come out you will this was all story/style over substance.

Pff, all these critics, go play something else then. I personally think it craps all over Half Life 2. Those boring sections and the ants could have been dumped right away.

Runs.

Xerx3s: what you mean predictable. Bioschock wasn't supposed to be unpredictable..., it's just an awesome story. Did you hear Jasmine (Jack's real mother)Audio Diary ?

sharpfish: yeah, yeah... it's cool to ditch a game everyone's praising, in two or three years a new awesome game come around, and you'll say, it's BS! Bioshock was the thing!

the plot twist that I pretty much sussed out in about 3 hours of playing it?

Menage > how does fuck off sound? I will talk about a game I bought just as much as anyone, just because I think it's over rated doesn't mean I can't discuss it.

You idiot, you think from now on everyone who has issues with anything in life just has to stay quiet so the devs don't learn from their mistakes and make better games next time?

Boy, your utopia sounds cool but totally unworkable

and I AM playing something else (a few games actually) but this discussion is about BS and Cliffy B's ulterior motives and or poor judgement. The guys is being a tool on this one because he hasn't even PLAYED all the games from this year yet (so many good ones still to be released)

IF that isn't 'vested interest' then it's fanboyism which is far worse coming from Cliffy.

Now.. if you LIKE the game so much YOU go off and play it instead of telling others what they can and can't say.

t8yman: it's not "that" plot twist, it's to know who's Jack's real mother and father.

Playing bioshock is like watching a great, hyped independent movie fromk france.
All the critics love the art an emotion, but you can't help but feel it's just a black and white film about a maid and a dripping tap.

"Menage > how does fuck off sound? I will talk about a game I bought just as much as anyone, just because I think it's over rated doesn't mean I can't discuss it. "

Very civil off you, Everyones entitles to their own opinions. But your aggressive line off talk goes way beyond a normal opinion. Downgrading every piece of game which a lot off people like does get you where exactly?

Also you just added a lot off shit I didn't even say. So maybe you could go fantasize somewhere else. I just meant to say you shouldn't get so worked up.

Oh and this plot twist deal... when have games been about plot twists? this is what I'm not getting.

People are raving about the fact that some faceless game character finds out that his parents are someone and his "friend" is someone else... that would be worth 'film of the year' sure (if it was in a film) but what the hell has that got to do with interaction?

This is nothing more than a 3D version of those old CD-ROM FMV games (the 7th guest etc), everyone moaned about how story was taking away basic interaction and gameplay back then (I was there, i've been around games for a long time going back to the Atari VCS) and now we have more story in games (not bad in itself) but it's completely derailing the gameplay and the new 'media hungry' generation just don't see it, they lap it up as a new story telling device rather than questioning "Where is my part in this 'story'".

Games were supposed to be about empowering the player to feel like they were in a different role not read out canned scripts to them, challenge and reward were the corner stones of games - there is no 'reward' in BS unless you think the story is better than any generic poor selling novel from the bottom shelf or you local book store.

I'm out of this thread now, but no GOTY of mine will ever be a glorified novella with a pretty skybox, it will be something that immerses me and is excellent in all areas (without needing to 'excuse' it's flaws).

sharpfish: cool down mate, Bioshock is awfull, and you know better what video games are supposed to be... heck! you've been around since Atari VCS!.

There you go...

I bet the "Bioshock is overrated" people are the same that like trolling with "Halo is overrated".

"Overrated" is the new emo.

And BTW it is *only* a fucking videogame. Stop pretending games have to have the same level of storytelling as a super good book. If you need that.. stop playing and start reading.

sharpfish yeah you fuck off let menage have his opinion if he feels BioShock pisses all over Half-Life2. The problem is when people are forcing their opinions on others and basically being really subjective and then offensive when met with anything but agreement(I've had that before in the forum and found it really pathetic), plus half of what youve said, I know for a fact Id disagree with because Ive played some of those games in the list you gave and thats without playing BioShock. You bought the game? so did alot of people who disagree with you, the hypocrisy is with you, you are basically saying "no you're wrong, shut up while I have my say and dont disagree with it or I'll start getting abusive and make even more posts saying the same thing but longer, after I tell you I have a right to voice my opinion but dont want to hear yours".

Oh and SS2 > Half-Life and Half-Life2 IMO, we'll see about BioShock :) not arguing about your opinion of it thats fine doesnt change a thing, just remember thats all it is, your opinion.