BioShock, Halo 3 not "next-gen"

By Robert Purchese Published 10 October, 2007

David Braben scrutinises.

Frontier Developments boss David Braben believes BioShock and Halo 3 are not examples of "next-gen" games.

He was speaking exclusively to Eurogamer about his new project The Outsider, which he still believes will be one of the first proper examples of fifth generation gaming on the market.

"I loved the 1930s-1950s atmosphere of BioShock: the lovely Art Deco visuals and the audio that worked especially well," Braben told us. "Overall the whole game was beautifully executed, but the gameplay itself was not 'next-gen'."

"I found Halo 3 great fun, too, but also a little disappointing - as although there were a few nice touches and improved graphical fidelity, it hadn't really moved on much from Halo 2 in terms of the gameplay.

"So to answer your question, if anything I am reassured; I think Outsider more than stands up to them, and I still think Outsider will be one of the first 'next-gen' games," he added.

The Outsider was announced back in 2005 as a game that would bring around the same sort of freedom as Braben's other famous creation, Elite. For him, a next-gen game means giving you the tools to change the outcome of a story much more dynamically than by choosing good or evil paths - something only the new consoles have the grunt to deliver.

The Outsider is a high-tech thriller that pops you in the shoes of an Elite CIA agent made public enemy number one at the outset of the game. From here your choice of how to proceed is up to you: turn the tables and exploit your former employers, bring about ultra-violent destruction with your Jack Bauer-like training, or crusade to clear your wrongly slurred name.

Development on the title is going "very well, thanks", although no platforms, dates, or details have been heard about for the past two years.

Frontier Developments is also currently working on roller-coaster sequel Thrillville: Off the Rails, which will launch on PC, 360, Wii, DS, PS2 and PSP on 19th October.

Join us later in the week for our full chit chat with David Braben to find out how he has found working on the PS3 and 360, and what exactly the Wiimote is capable of.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (136) Latest comment 4 years ago

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  • rhinoxious #1 4 years ago

    Big words Mr Braben,

    Lets hope you can follow up on them.

  • zuljin #2 4 years ago

    /Finds cover...

  • peteb #3 4 years ago

    @rhinoxious

    +1

  • rhinoxious #4 4 years ago

    I agree there's no gaemplay in Bioshock or Halo 3 that hasn't been done before (deus ex, system shock 2, halo 1 and 2 respectively).

    But the added graphical grunt and superior sound effects of Bioshock over previous games of this type certainly adds more to the immersive feel and narrative. So it's certainly a step up.

  • DUFFKING #5 4 years ago

    Of course they aren't next gen, that's why they are on current gen consoles.

  • Rodster #6 4 years ago

    Bioshock is worthy of nextgen status. Halo 3 is overrated and over hyped.

  • Poorandugly #7 4 years ago

    Well Elite IS a marvel... If you can repeat that, I'll forgive you for talking out of your ass this time.

  • lennon #8 4 years ago

    4 player co op over xbox live not next gen enough for you?

    /Waits to be told its been done before.....

    I quite like the demo of Thrillville didnt realise thats who was developing it.

  • Paolo_ray #9 4 years ago

    He's got a point about Halo 3, it's really just a Hi-def Halo 2 - Still love the multiplayer though!

  • WestBullet #10 4 years ago

    Wheres Elite IV, Braben????

  • TwistidChimp #11 4 years ago

    ffs.. now even respected devs are using the phrase next gen as some nebulous sodding buzzword. All next gen ever has, and ever will mean is the next generation of hardware. If you turn it into meaning "a leap in gameplay advancement" then it doesn't mean anything any more.

    And whats with all these sodding devs lately talking down other games as a thinly veiled pr excercise to pimp their own titles.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 17:13

  • drumm23 #12 4 years ago

    Wow, he's lined himself up for a dragon-punch to the testicles.

  • mrharvest #13 4 years ago

    First Molyneux and now Braben. Is this the official "Yesteryear Devs Spout Bollocks" -day?

  • Schiraman #14 4 years ago

    I think he's right on the money about Bioshock, and probably Halo 3 as well from the sounds of things - though I've not played it.

  • lambtron #15 4 years ago

    "And whats with all these sodding devs lately talking down other games as a thinly veiled pr excercise to pimp their own titles."

    They probably believe if you take a really well-received game and say - well its all well and good, but my game is n times better, that they will somehow generate lot of hype for their own game.

    Of course the flip side of that is, if you release the game and its much worse than the game you compared it to, you are fucked.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #16 4 years ago

    Oh, for god's sake, all the salty old sea dogs are mouthing off their soon-to-be-discredited opinions today aren't they?

    How long before someone wheels out Jon hare to diss Fifa and pro Evo, and complain that 'Sex, Drugs & Rock N Roll' was the Real Next Gen.

    I think we need a new expression, 'next-gen' seems to have lost all meaning. People were using it to describe PS1 and N64 back in the day.

  • Azazel #17 4 years ago

    'Next-gen' is one of those annoying buzzwords that means nothing and makes me want to puke blood every time I hear it.

    FUCK

    /punches the office inflatable punching bag*


    *Yes we do have one. I love programming.

  • Lutz #18 4 years ago

    Hey Rob, any chance you could ask WTF is happening with Elite 4?
    Sod The Outsider, where's Elite 4???

  • crazyhorse174 #19 4 years ago

    Hasn't EVERY game since the PS1/Saturn days just been similar ideas, but done with better graphics?

    Doesn't next-gen just mean "the same as before, but a bit flashier?"

  • abcd #20 4 years ago

    There seems to be a pattern emerging. A game designer dimisses another game but praises their own.

    So it's probably rubbish then.

  • Darkedge #21 4 years ago

    what it is with old developers shitting on other games to big up their one, ESPECIALLY when they have done bugger all that is impressive in years..

    Lets hope this one lives up to the size of DB's gob.

  • deaner #22 4 years ago

    No technical leap forward? We knew that. But hey - 10/10 from EG!

  • skillian #23 4 years ago

    Gen is just short for generation, so these games are current-gen. Games for the Xbox720 are next-gen - whether they are good, shite, revolutionary or whatever.

    He should call his game 'Gaming 2.0' or something. He'd still sound like a douchebag but at least it would make more sense than this 'next-gen' bollox.

  • beastmaster #24 4 years ago

    Well H3 & Bio are here now. Outsider is still probably a long way off and may be superseded by the time it comes out. We've all seen this kind of thing before. I really hope Outsider and Fable 2 turn out great.

  • afghan_jones #25 4 years ago

    idiot.

    next-gen is meaningless other than a way of grouping hardware iterations.

    That said, if you did want to quantify it, Halo 3 would be an excellent example of next-gen. Being able to run 4 player co-op over Live or party up and fight other teams in MP, then watch through the replay film of the entire level, shift the camera around wherever you like then take screengrabs and film clips which you can then send over Live to your mates seems pretty fucking next-gen to me...

  • Rodriguez #26 4 years ago

    Perhaps it should be called the ''hi-def'' era, for games exploiting the graphical grunt of the 360 or PS3, rather than the ''next-gen'' era. Either way Bioshock is brilliant and Halo 3 does co-op gameplay really well.

  • thepiedpiper #27 4 years ago

    deary me, seems like a lot of trash talk is being batted about today from developers

  • T4RG4 #28 4 years ago

    Can Frontier actually release a high enough quality game to back up what Braben is saying? I have serious doubts (although hope to be proven wrong).

    Bioshock - the demo was enough for me. Halo3 bought it, not played it much. I was caught up in the hype :D However, soon a few games of 3-player co-op (I'm lacking friends) will justify its purchase but its not a fantastic game in my eyes thus far.

  • pigwhistler #29 4 years ago

    all we need now is mike singleton to big up something....

  • Furbs #30 4 years ago

    Next up, Geoff Crammond says "Forza 2, its a bit shit really".

  • bigJaffa #31 4 years ago

    Think he's wrong on this one.

    Next gen is not defined by graphical fidelity only, its also about physics, A.I. and sound. To be a true next gen game it delivers on all fronts. Bioshock and Halo 3 are perfect examples of this.

    To be next gen, the game must only be possible on the 360, PS3 or even the Wii with its unique controls.

    Sounds like he is setting himself up for a fall trying to go up against these two which have been a hit with critics and gamers alike.

    Good luck mate, I do hope it turns out a good game.

  • Razz #32 4 years ago

    Too right. I believe they're current gen.

  • T4RG4 #33 4 years ago

    Furbs - Next up, Geoff Crammond says "Forza 2, its a bit shit really".

    HAHA :)

  • smelly #34 4 years ago

    "Blah blah blah... I thought Bioshock and H3 were fantastic. This whole fucking "next gen" crap is getting tiresome."

    He didnt say they were crap.. he just said they weren't exactly "next gen".. i.e. they're both something which couldve been done on last gen machines (if it wasnt for the gimmick of prettier pixels).

    i.e. the GAMEPLAY hasnt advanced.. just the GRAPHICS.

    Which is his point. Mind you, it seems people are MORE Than happy to buy over hyped dross just because it has prettier pixels.. so maybe he's wrong?

  • smelly #35 4 years ago

    "Think he's wrong on this one.
    Next gen is not defined by graphical fidelity only"



    Which is what he says


    "its also about physics, A.I. and sound. To be a true next gen game it delivers on all fronts. Bioshock and Halo 3 are perfect examples of this. "


    LMFAO!!!!

  • jmctavish #36 4 years ago

    Games like Wii Sports and Metroid Prime 3 are truly next gen since you play them in ways you couldn't before.

  • Dizzy #37 4 years ago

    TBH.. fuck off people who claim this. He should know better as a gamedev. Games that "do something new" only come along every 5 years or so. Doing something better, refined and more realistically than before like Halo 3 and Bioshock is next gen by definition.

    " To be a true next gen game it delivers on all fronts. Bioshock and Halo 3 are perfect examples of this. "

    Indeed. QFT.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 17:43

  • Redeye #38 4 years ago

    Here's my advice to developers who think it's a great idea to follow Braben, Molyneux et al in putting the boot into current-gen titles whilst trying to blow their own trumpets: shut the fuck up, and get on with producing something worthwhile of your own, you pilchards.

    *goes back to pixel-bashing*

  • haowan #39 4 years ago

    weak press bait.

  • Fyzzu #40 4 years ago

    @Bloodkult:

    I imagine the next thing you'll hear about The Outsider will be whatever tiny scrap of information is uncovered in the forthcoming interview mentioned in this article ;P

  • smelly #41 4 years ago

    Regardless of whether it's press bait.. no matter how much it upsets the fanboys..

    he is correct. Halo and bioshock are nothing that couldnt have been done next gen (albeit with worse pixels).

    It's like in the bad 8/16 bit days of nintendo/sega where you upgraded to the latest machine only to get the EXACT same mario/sonic platformer with no real improvements over the prettier dots on the screen.

  • NewbieZilla #42 4 years ago

    I've been looking forward to this game big time since I first read about it. Here, I believe, though i'm not sure about that.

    When I saw the article title, I was wondering who'd be saying this, and seeing who is coming out with it, well, judging by what they promise (if they can pull it off) they'd have the authority to make that statement.

    If not, i'll just consider them followers of the philosophy of Molynuts.

  • Drpwnage #43 4 years ago

    Hmm David Braben whose last cutting edge game was released in 1984.

  • neuroniky #44 4 years ago

    This coming from the man that managed to do Elite on a BBC2...

    ... or from the man that kept making bad sequels to it?

  • YourMessageHere #45 4 years ago

    Wow, you're all a bit hypocritical aren't you? The industry says HD, and everyone accepts that now it refers to several different resolutions despite HDTV originally being one specific resolution previously (IIRC). The industry obfuscatorially uses the marketing term "different SKUs" a couple of times, and everyone forgets that saying "different models" means the same thing and was perfectly acceptable previously.

    The industry then notices how everyone expects the moon on a stick when they say "next gen" and acts accordingly, using it to mean a radical shift in the complexity of gameplay (or something like that, it's hardly well defined) and you all bitch at them for not being pedantically exacting. That's kind of why it's in quotes - because everyone ought by now to be well aware that it's not being used literally to mean the upcoming hardware generation, especially at this stage in the hardware cycle.

    I think he's right, but not that it's a bad thing necessarily. I'd certainly like to see games branching out in their styles of play. Bioshock was cool but not that unconventional, being less about what the game did and more about how these things were done. Halo 3 I won't comment on other than to paraphrase EG's review: more of the same, but tweaked well, I think they said. Maybe both games would have been better with more innovation; the point is they pleased loads without it. This Outsider thing also sounds interesting at this stage (PC release? Please?) and I'll keep an eye on it.

  • Lov3 #46 4 years ago

    Hate that buzz word, but I love Braben, so I forgive him.

    I will hang on to every word of this review when it's released.

  • Steroyd #47 4 years ago

    Oh wow this comments section moves fast.

    /bails

    lolz fart.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 18:16

  • Stoatboy #48 4 years ago

    As others have pointed out - next-gen refers to hardware, not software. A game is just a game regardless of the hardware it's running on. FFS - the PC doesn't have generations, and that's getting on fine without them.

    Sure, there will be new ways of playing games, new game styles and new game mechanics, but that doesn't make any of them next-gen - it just makes them different types of game.

  • smelly #49 4 years ago

    "As others have pointed out - next-gen refers to hardware, not software. A game is just a game regardless of the hardware it's running on"


    But the GAMES are the most important part. Without games the hardware is redundant (ask sony).

    So therefor, if the games dont improve between generations.. why bother spending money to upgrade?

  • Steroyd #50 4 years ago

    I've always considered next gen accordingly to the games, PS2 games made PS1 games feel rigid claustrophobic and some old games I won't touch thanks to all that, I'm not feeling that at all with the leap from PS2 to PS3.

  • crazyhorse174 #51 4 years ago

    Next...the Oliver Brothers in shock "Chuckie Egg was a bit shit - our Dizzy was true next-gen" shocker...

  • Lov3 #52 4 years ago

    "...I'm going to guess it'll *actually* be a really, really shiny third person shooter ;)"

    I should probably point out that there was no such thing as a space combat sim before elite. He and Bell invented a genre, and in doing so also put together the largest simulation of the galaxy commercially available at the time. Who knows if the outsider will be the same kind of revolutionary? Parhaps it won't, but if anyone is actually capable of it it's this man.

    EDIT: grammar.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 18:32

  • Freek #53 4 years ago

    Oh snap! The Outsider better be the best thing ever then.

  • JavaJawaUK #54 4 years ago

    Thanks for your input Mr Braben, but no-one cares.

    Where's Elite 4?

  • Cheboury #55 4 years ago

    Hmmm, well, well, well... Mr. David Braben I just saw the trailer to your Next-Gen game and didn't find anything about it that defines Next-Gen. While a trailer may not represent anything about your game at this early stage it does and needs to show or at least capture the spirit of potential that your vision holds. The animation, physics, visuals and narrative were a bit underwhelming I must say.

    I hope your big vision doesn't cause you mouth to run off every chance it gets to postulate an amen to what your ego so dearly holds.

    Please take a lesson and learn in what Julian eggebrecht's mouth has caused and brought upon Factor 5.. A huge lair of dragons all crapping over a fairly well establishment.


  • Veracity #56 4 years ago

    In a surprising new development today, $hack_dev, associated with $ancient_much_loved_game, mouthed off to the effect that $hype_train is "hardly all that and a bag of chips", indeed that it is not really even $empty_buzzword. $hack_dev, as our more aged readers will recall, has produced nothing of note since $ancient_much_loved_game besides a prodigious volume of hot air, but assures us that $vapourware will deliver $empty_buzzword in spades, putting such "Johnny-come-lately upstarts" as $hype_train to shame. Sources close to $hack_dev privately added that their dads could have the developers of $hype_train's dads. $hack_dev's remaining three fans, while expressing certain reservations regarding the substance of today's comments, were overjoyed to see $vapourware receiving some press coverage.

    Mouth, trousers, etc.

    Still, fills column inches and keeps the click-throughs coming. I'll refrain from copy/paste spamming this in the Molyneux comments as well.

  • sharpfish #57 4 years ago

    He's spot on with Bioshock though, gameplay is very old hat... boring even.

  • dsmx #58 4 years ago

    I tend to agree with him on this, in so far I view next gen as something that isn't possible on the previous generation of consoles. Bioshock and halo 3 would of both been possible on the xbox, sure they wouldn't of looked as nice but the gameplay would of been the same.

  • themorganator #59 4 years ago

    hmmmm, why oh why, would a games developer state something so obviously controversial. All the new major titles aren't next gen? Why is this blatant marketing even being reported Eurogamer!

    I wonder why he said this..................

    Its not like he's going to be releasing a game soon, is it.

    Oh, hang on..........

  • MilkYMoO #60 4 years ago

    Well lets see how good the outsider is then. Fingers crossed.

  • Farstarbuck #61 4 years ago

    There is nothing quite like talking up your own game so much that if it falls on its arse then you look like a complete twat!!

  • menage #62 4 years ago

    Well, at least BS had a next-gen story instead of save the princess.

  • L0cky #63 4 years ago

    Yesterday was just a newer version of the day before. Today is definetly an advancement on that; but it's tomorrow that will have the greatest leap from the day before yesterday.

    Next Generation ftw \o/

  • J.C #64 4 years ago

    For him, a next-gen game means giving you the tools to change the outcome of a story much more dynamically than by choosing good or evil paths - something only the new consoles have the grunt to deliver.

    Is this guy related to molyneux? because they both talk bollocks. remember peter's fable promises? :(

  • riz23 #65 4 years ago

    Thrillville is of course, the very epitomy of 'Next-Gen'. Go check the demo and you'll see what I mean.

    PS. Could you do an XP patch for V2000 please Mr.Braben?

  • CannonAnBall #66 4 years ago

    I might as well sell my 360 then.

  • Skywise #67 4 years ago

    Those british developers are even bigger mouthed than the Sony execs ;)

  • dudefella #68 4 years ago

    translation: I WANT ATTENTION FOR MY GAME!!!!!

    And you're giving it to him EG... shame on you

  • dredd97 #69 4 years ago

    `Those british developers are even bigger mouthed than the Sony execs ;)`

    not british i'll take it then?

    besides what have these two ever done to people on here? they make some mild critisim of two popular games and you'd think they'd pissed in your pints or something?
    so halo 3 and bioshock are beyond critisim these days?

    both games are great, but equally their both not perfect either...
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 20:14

  • MaxiSleep #70 4 years ago

    David "Lets make the damm ships unflyable in a horrible bugfest" Braben?

  • lambtron #71 4 years ago

    @Veracity

    haha.

  • Lov3 #72 4 years ago

    Someone's comment made me look up the trailer to brabens new game. It looks promising to me... exciting even. Hopefully it can deliver something interesting. Here's the trailer:

    [link url=http://youtube .com/watch?v=YR5mz9568sg
    ]http://youtube .com/watch?v=YR5mz9568sg
    [/link]

  • smelly #73 4 years ago

    "and all you noobs who are hating on bioshock to be fashionable can go fuck off. "

    No-one is hating bioshock.. We're just agreeing with him that its not something "new" or even something that couldnt have been done on last gen (bar the graphics)

    After all it's a remake of SS2 which is an old game.

    What he's saying (basically) is that if yer going to do a "next gen" fps (For example) why not try to do something a bit (you know) different with it?

    Take mario galaxy for example, same old platformy stuff.. but with the galaxy/planet theme to give it a breath of fresh air - something a bit more "new".

    At the moment the fps genre is stuck in the same rutt as mario was back in the 8 bit era.

    Same old same old.. yawnsville. Back then i was bored of platformers.. now i'm bored of fps games..

    Swings and round-a-bouts

  • mcmonkeyplc #74 4 years ago

    Your game had better be amazing then dick weed.

  • Veldaban #75 4 years ago

    It's not like he's come out and made a proclamation about how Bioshock and Halo 3 are terrible (or whatever people think he said) and the Outsider is fantastic. He got asked a question in an interview. His comment isn't THAT strange in that context.
    Now why this single question needs to be blown up into a seperate news article, I don't know, as posting quotes from established industry figures only ever seems to lead to a thread full of bile and hatred.

  • Beano #76 4 years ago

    Halo 3 not next-gen ?

    Maybe... but it's not real HD either ;)

  • huxathon #77 4 years ago

    He's right. Next gen doesn't really start until a bit further into new consoles life span. Like the 60's didn't really start until the 70's.

  • Slamhound #78 4 years ago

    I thought we were on the seventh generation of gaming consoles, if Wikipedia is to be believed.

  • smelly #79 4 years ago

    "here's only one yardstick. Did I enjoy it? "

    Well obviously you didnt, or you wouldnt get so upset on forums about it :-)

    And if that's the only yardstick - i can see why the wii is doing so well, as (in your words not mine) next gen doesnt matter.

  • dudefella #80 4 years ago

    "Someone's comment made me look up the trailer to brabens new game. It looks promising to me... exciting even. Hopefully it can deliver something interesting. Here's the trailer:

    http://youtube .com/watch?v=YR5mz9568sg "

    Looks interesting, but the models and animation were absolutely atrocious. God-awful. NOT NEXT-GEN! NEXT!


    Harsh world isn't it, mr Braben? Stupid hypocrite...

  • PearOfAnguish #81 4 years ago

    "He was speaking exclusively to Eurogamer"

    Hardly exclusive, Braben has been doing a tour of web sites and publishing houses.

  • Dunk360 #82 4 years ago

    Shock - developer with product to hype makes headline grabbing comment about current popular games. Whatever next!

  • DjFlex52 #83 4 years ago

    "Take mario galaxy for example, same old platformy stuff.. but with the galaxy/planet theme to give it a breath of fresh air - something a bit more "new". "

    What BS! That's not new or even remotely "a breath of fresh air".
    Get this straight....Bioshock could not be done on last gen consoles. And if they did it, it would SUCK.
    Bioshock is MORE than just great graphics...it has immersive surround audio, better AI than any last gen FPS, 100% speaking parts with no text-dependent storyline like most last gen rpgs. PS2 or Xbox couldn't handle this game and Ken Levine definitely wouldn't waste his time trying.
    Bioshock is next gen to ME....Fuck off Braben! Your last game RCT 3 was just decent...horrible AI, framerate issues etc. I had much more fun with Sawyer's RCT2.

  • el_pollo_diablo #84 4 years ago

    The man who gave me 'Dog's Life' could tell me to kill the prime minister of Malaysia and I'd probably do it.

    Why aren't there more games with dogs in? There should be.

  • Skywise #85 4 years ago

    @dredd97: I respect british developers in general but these two haven't put out a game of the caliber of Bioshock and Halo 3 in the past console generation so it seems they're only hyping their next above average games up far too much (again - in the case of Molyneux, still haven't forgiven him for the disillusion of playing Fable)

  • smelly #86 4 years ago

    "Bioshock could not be done on last gen consoles. And if they did it, it would SUCK."

    Yes it could.. in fact it was done on tech BEFORE last gen consoles. It was called System Shock 2 (which bioshock is pretty much a poorer remake of). And it was better than Bioshock.. So much for sucking.

    EDIT: PS - system shock 2 was release in 1999 - eight years ago.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/07 @ 22:44

  • smelly #87 4 years ago

    "100% speaking parts with no text-dependent storyline like most last gen rpgs"

    Didnt system shock 2 (9 years ago) have full speech? I might remember that wrong..

  • smelly #88 4 years ago

    "My point being I'm sick to the back teeth of people telling me what I should be enjoying. I couldn't give a fuck whether Braben thinks Halo/Bioshock etc are next gen or not."


    I guess my point was that:

    1. people are mis-quoting him, he's not telling them halo or bioshock are crap - that's just 360 fanboys overreacting
    2. He was asked a question in an interview and he responded, and has been quoted out of context. He's not "ordering" people to not enjoy it.. He's was just stating is opinion when asked what he thought about them. And personally i agree, neither were worth the "perfect scores" they got, and neither are anything you couldnt have done last gen or before (so much for upgrading!).

  • Kryon #89 4 years ago

    Do some people actually still take smellys 'bait' ? How quaint...

    I must admit I chuckled at the bit about Mario Galaxy being teh 'real next gen' because they changed the backrounds into teh space setting though. Comedy gold mate LMFAO.

  • Hamflank #90 4 years ago

    This isn't about being next-gen or not.

    It's about creating a buzz around a game and company noone has ever heard off. Considering the amount of comments, he seems to be doing a fine job.

  • captain-future #91 4 years ago

    Well, lets see if his games are true 'next-gen', shall we?

  • smelly #92 4 years ago

    @Kryon : *sigh*

    okay whatever - you're right. This big bad man is slagging off your bestest game isnt he? What an evil big bad man he is.

  • Kryon #93 4 years ago

    @Smelly

    Not at all, I'm not really a shooter fan. I just find you hilarious. I've never known anyone to speak so much drivel before. No need to get your Mario panties in a twist though, eh.

  • wired009 #94 4 years ago

    I agree with Braben. Whether his game can live up to his big talk is another matter. Bioshock has good art direction and narrative but the gameplay is not very exciting. Halo 3 is pretty much Halo 1+2 with improved graphics. Dead Rising really blew me away with the branching story, time constraints, and RPG elements. That game is still tops of the current gen in my book. Guitar Hero is second for taking the rhythm game genre to a new level of immersion; definitely next gen gameplay on last gen hardware. R6 Vegas is my third choice for the awesome strategic gameplay and intense multiplay with persistent characters (just not enough maps). Everything else to me really feels like been there done that...sorry Wii fanatics.

  • el_pollo_diablo #95 4 years ago

    Why has nobody answered my question about dogs?

    Stop bickering and sort it out.

  • Vin #96 4 years ago

    Coz Dogs can't look up. lolz.

  • Xerx3s #97 4 years ago

    /makes not to self "If publicity is required, diss a popular product"

  • Xerx3s #98 4 years ago

    I tend to agree with him on this, in so far I view next gen as something that isn't possible on the previous generation of consoles. Bioshock and halo 3 would of both been possible on the xbox, sure they wouldn't of looked as nice but the gameplay would of been the same.

    Next gen != OMG waggle innovation. NG can also be graphics, sound, scale, AI, etc. Controls are just a very small part of the next gen. And even in that area the innovation isn't much better than graphics. Waggle controller instead of press a isn't much better than 10000 polygons instead of 5000.

    Wake up and smell the roses people, NG is just a lame arse marketing term.

  • wizbob #99 4 years ago

    I think it might be hard for some people here to grasp the huge shift in gaming that elite represents. I played it at the same time as Jetpac, which might give you some idea of what a *huge* leap forward it was in immersion, depth, story and technology.

    I'm sure that the Outsider won't have the most cutting edge models or dobly hypersurround audio but it may offer a similar paradigm shift in gameplay. His point is that the 'next gen' consoles create the opportunity to make a similar leap forward in game world complexity.

    As to people who say he hasn't done anything cutting edge since Elite, do they recall Crackdown from earlier this year? I believe that was considered a successful and interesting development in the sandbox genre.

    The Outsider is not due for release any time soon so I doubt he's trying to hype it at the moment.


  • Atari_Boy #100 4 years ago

    *sigh* saying something is "next gen" is so "last gen".

    BTW How is Elite 4 going?
    ;)

  • Lov3 #101 4 years ago

    "As to people who say he hasn't done anything cutting edge since Elite, do they recall Crackdown from earlier this year? I believe that was considered a successful and interesting development in the sandbox genre."

    That's david jones, not david braben :)

  • Vandrius #102 4 years ago

    All these console weenies listing out the 'huge' elements of Halo 3 need a reality check. (I love my consoles... but some people need a clue)

    We old-school PC gamers have had better FPS than you could ever cream your small little pants over. Every console FPS feature has been done on PC before, thus far. Halo (or any other console shooter) is just a polished version of tried-and-true PC FPS elements wrapped onto a console and given a joypad.

    Alien versus Predator - Survival Coop.
    SS2 - Bioshock from 10 yrs ago - their similarities are amazing
    Half-Life - Best story-driven FPS in a long time
    Counter-Strike, Team Fortress (Quake and HL): Team FPS

    I love Bioshock, but it is nothing but good-old FPS/RPG elements wrapped up in an extremely polished and desireable package.

  • space_ace #103 4 years ago

    david braben is not next-gen

  • DjFlex52 #104 4 years ago

    "100% speaking parts with no text-dependent storyline like most last gen rpgs"

    Didnt system shock 2 (9 years ago) have full speech? I might remember that wrong..

    @smelly

    Are you sleepwalking, smelly?
    Was SS2 on a console? Keep track of the subject, please ;)
    SS2 is not near technically comparable to Bioshock but storywise they are both from Ken Levine's creative imagination. When Braben and Molyneux can do what he did 9 years later then they can talk about what is and what's not next gen.

    SS2 is one of my top 5 favorite PC games but it's still 9 years ago.



  • DjFlex52 #105 4 years ago

    "I love Bioshock, but it is nothing but good-old FPS/RPG elements wrapped up in an extremely polished and desireable package."

    I'll take it anytime...next gen to me :)
    Are you expecting a new genre to be created to be next gen?
    You guys have a loooonnnnnng wait then.

  • BonzoBanana #106 4 years ago

    I think much of my thoughts have already been written previously here but I don't get how David Braben thinks his opinion is important. Frontier Developments have been pretty weak in my opinion. Some developers look at what has been successful previously and add to that and enhance it rather than radically change it. They evolve gameplay to improve it and where possible enhance the graphics and sound to that possible on the platform they are developing for. Innovative ideas are probably a small percentage of a new game design because innovation can be a great risk and many jobs are dependent on getting at least one successful game released for every three developed I guess.

    David Braben is an intellectual, a brilliant mind but I don't think he has a full grasp on game design from the perspective of playability and the mindset of those who enjoy it. People often come home from a long day's work which has been pretty boring and stressful and are looking for escapism and excitement and dare I say violence a lot of the time to make their existence more interesting. They like games to have gameplay that is quick to pick up but increases in complexity slowly as you progress into the game so as not to be too taxing and disruptive to the general experience.

    For me frontier developments are not truly focused on the gameplay experience. Personally I think Braben is more interested in saying how great he is because he runs a development company but that development company has most certainly not achieved greatness in anyway so far.

    It is some justice that Nintendo the company that is most focused on the gameplay experience has become market leader with a technically very weak console. They have done it without pushing ultra violent games too. They have also achieved profit which no other console company is doing at the moment. Nintendo's opinion in my opinion is worth a thousand times that of Braben. They have continued to achieve greatness in gaming over and over again. Admittedly Elite was an amazing game but Frontier was quite weak in gameplay terms and First Encounters was just a buggy mess and in my opinion its gone down hill from there.

  • Les #107 4 years ago

    Old news. Anyone still expecting this gen to deliver something that could be called 'next gen' is crazy. The consoles already struggle with the HD upgrades of 10 year old game templates...

  • marilena #108 4 years ago

    Sad, sad comments thread. Fanboys coming out of the woodwork to make sure nobody says anything about their 10/10 games...

    "Next-gen" may be a stupid buzz-word, but the point is correct, Bioshock and H3 are not really modern games. Chronicles of Riddick, an Xbox game, is more "next-gen" than them. It has characters you can interact with and a world in which you exist, rather than levels in which you simply run around shooting monsters.

    I can only laugh at the idea that Bioshock has advanced AI. Or than it couldn't be done on the last generation, when it was in fact already done in 1999 (and done much better).

  • Darren #109 4 years ago

    Well he does have a point. Halo 3 is little more than Halo 2 with better graphics and more going on (running at a near Xbox resolution! ;) ) and you could easily imagine BioShock running on the Xbox albeit with vastly inferior graphics. Neither game is particularly doing anything that the previous generation couldn't have done without compromises. That said I'd rather play those games on a more powerful system for the eye-candy alone which is the reason I won't buy my multiformat games on the Wii, for example.

  • Verwandlung #110 4 years ago

    Haha.

  • menage #111 4 years ago

    I agree with the sentiment that all the Bioshock haters should piss off.

    Nailing a big Daddy by shooting a gas-canister behind him which cvused him to ram into a couple of splicers which then all caught fire and started shooting each other. Try to do that realistically 10 years ago. There weren't even realistic physics then.

    Edited by 1 at 11/10/07 @ 08:50

  • afghan_jones #112 4 years ago

    For me, the next-gen-ness of Halo isnt really about the gameplay, which isnt a big revolution (but is still brilliant, pitch perfect FPS), its about the extra features.

    I can go into the 360 dash, check who's online, pick a few mates to invite into forge, build and edit a map on the fly with them whilst playing them in realtime. Then stay partied up and go do some 4 player co-op or join in some team battles.

    Later, each of us can go back into theatre, edit the saved films however we like, send clips and screenshots over LIVE, or just pull them from bungie.net and email them to people at work the next day.

    That, to me, is a totally new set of features that 'last-gen' consoles just didnt do.

  • sanctusmortis #113 4 years ago

    Hmm. I would argue Halo 3 hits next gen by having features impossible on the last gen - the Theater's multi-angle stuff, for example, or Forge's realtime level editing.

    Bioshock... it's touch and go, as there's not really anything that requires high-end equipment, were it not for graphics - but, arguably, the physics stuff is pretty high-end.

    I'd love to know his definition. I always thought it was "a game impossible to do on previous generation hardware".

  • Avenger1324 #114 4 years ago

    When you can't get publicity for your own game for being good, get it from saying something controversial about the 2 highest rated titles of recent months.

  • Darren #115 4 years ago

    @Sanctumortis - The Xbox had a hard drive so the Theatre mode and Forge mode could have been done on the Xbox, maybe not as well but they'd have been possible. After all games like Blinx the TimeSweeper made use of the HDD to allow you to rewind and fast forward time, and once you completed the level it replayed the entire thing, lasting upwards of ten minutes. Halo 3's replay mode is only an extension of that. As for the Forge mode, it's little more than a basic level editor and they've been around for yonks, TimeSplitters 2 (or it might have been 3, I forget) allowed you to actually design FULL levels for example and share them online. ;)

  • Twincoil #116 4 years ago

    YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN

  • Iora #117 4 years ago

    Careful Mr Molynuex it looks like Braben has his eyes set on your crown.

    Less talk more action. FUD

  • DjFlex52 #118 4 years ago

    "I agree with the sentiment that all the Bioshock haters should piss off."

    "Nailing a big Daddy by shooting a gas-canister behind him which cvused him to ram into a couple of splicers which then all caught fire and started shooting each other. Try to do that realistically 10 years ago. There weren't even realistic physics then. "

    @menage +

    Or enraging 2 big Daddies to fight it out was incredible to watch.
    BTW, The Fort Frolic level (best level in Bioshock) could only be done in 2007.
    I played SS2 for the third time just before I played Bioshock. I think some of you need to play it again. The AI in SS2 was primitive compared to Bioshock.

    "Old news. Anyone still expecting this gen to deliver something that could be called 'next gen' is crazy. The consoles already struggle with the HD upgrades of 10 year old game templates..."

    @Les

    please go play PS3 baseball or something....your negative comments in every thread are so tedious after a while.

  • Moz #119 4 years ago

    The risk I see is people making overly complicated games in a bid to be original and "next-gen" (which really should be current or new gen by now surely!)

    Personally what i'm wanting to see from games is more story and atmasfer

  • JayPee #120 4 years ago

    I would like to see the attempt to make these games for the "previous" gen of consoles. There's no way either game would run on a PS2 or Xbox or GC.

    I'm not sure when it was promised, but a lot of people seem to thing that "Next Gen" hardware will deliver "Next Gen" gameplay. This is of course not the case.

    "Next gen" gameplay evolutions are rarely met with such hype, but often appear as surprise.

    Personally, I am very in awe of some of the things Halo 3 has managed to achieve. Its sublime integration with all the on-line infrastructure Microsoft has spent 5 years implementing is truly a thing that has never been seen before, or could have been done on previous hardware and on-line services. I was initially a hopeful sceptic, but Kudos, Bungie.

  • miiiguel #121 4 years ago

    To the ppl who are saying this guy is right:
    - take a peak at Molyneux speech somewhere here in EG, same shit:
    "good games but not great, buy mine!"

    And what's this "next-gen" thing? What doest it do? What's its smell ? Is it fun ?



    /back to play Halo 3 (but still, disappointed, I was expecting Bungie would deliver a text adventure for the third installment - so we could look "da intelectual" - but no..., same old frantic Mad Max alike shooting!/
    Edited by 2 at 11/10/07 @ 10:40

  • Twincoil #122 4 years ago

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  • NewbieZilla #123 4 years ago

    "I don't get how David Braben thinks his opinion is important."

    Everyones opinion is important. Thats why its an opinion. Is yours any less important if you aren't in any way involved in games?

    "When you can't get publicity for your own game for being good, get it from saying something controversial about the 2 highest rated titles of recent months."

    In terms of the game itself, they are being excessively tight lipped. I know about this game by pure chance.

    "To the ppl who are saying this guy is right:
    - take a peak at Molyneux speech somewhere here in EG, same shit:
    "good games but not great, buy mine!" "

    And therin lies my fear. I'm not going to really expect anything from the game till its out and I read lots of reviews. I've learned from Fable a high average can be meaningless though.

  • DavidB #124 4 years ago

    As some of you have said, this is the answer to a question in an interview - mostly relating to Thrillville: Off the Rails, and is a little out of context. It does feel like hype for Outsider, and that was not my intention. Quite why the whole interview hasn't gone up, I don't know.

    Nevertheless, I stand by my comments on Halo 3 and Bioshock. I think they are great games, but they will not be called fifth generation games with hindsight from a few years hence, just as the pre-GTA3 claustriphobic early PS2-games-that-felt-like-PS1-games were not really fourth generation. Just as with last time around, we will know the transition when we see it - I of course hope it will be with Outsider, but it may be sooner. Oh - and I did say 'fifth gen' in my answer, and it was edited out. Hey ho.

    PS Please don't go out and kill the PM of Malaysia ;-)

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #125 4 years ago

    ooh, look, it's him ^^^^^^^ !

    In any case, I disagree. As is mentioned in one of EG's reviews yesterday, many people consider Half-Life 2 to be the first true instance of the current generation of games.

    In its case, it was the well crafted atmosphere, storyline and quality of gameplay (plus some fancy physics) that earned it the accolade at the time. All of these things (even the physics, thanks to the suspiciosly gravity gun-like telekinesis power) are also present in Bioshock, many to an even greater extent.

    Unfortunately, Valve then went and ported it to Xbox 1, which made the argument a lot more awkward!

    As for Halo, Microsoft have long boasted that 'Community Features' are a big part of the current generation for them. Gotham TV was put in a launch title to illustrate that, and Halo 3's movie features are similar.

    In any case, casting aspersions upon very critically and commercially successful games is always likely to cause ire. Not a clever plan, mate.
    Edited by 1 at 11/10/07 @ 13:37

  • Lemming81 #126 4 years ago

    Less chit-chat more graphically updated version of Fronter: Elite 2 with no bugs please.

    Gameplay-wise it's still more than a lot of today's games have managed.

  • Les #127 4 years ago

    "@Les

    please go play PS3 baseball or something....your negative comments in every thread are so tedious after a while."

    Why?! Without a little constructive criticism developers might think they can simply get away with doing the same game again and again and again and again and again and, etc. each time enhancing the graphics a little. Gaming media sure as hell don't care about this nor the graphics whores around here. But for some of us, that just isn't enough. I'm one of them, but I'm sure there are others. With each generation I get less enthusiastic about this hobby and I think it would be a shame for the video game industry to lose revenue people like me generate. So they'd better take action.

    I can just as well argue that all the possitive, drooling and often thoughtlessly extatic comments are also tedious, but I don't. This is a comments section after all.

  • NewbieZilla #128 4 years ago

    "Quite why the whole interview hasn't gone up, I don't know."

    The whole purpose of this article was a flamebait then. Posting a short excerpt that is intended to get people to respond, well, like they did, really. The Outsider being a game that is best described as a heavily guarded secret, people are only really going to be able to respond as they did, though I guess.

    Any hopes for any new pics/vids on the game any time soon?

  • kangarootoo #129 4 years ago

    I think maybe the lesson we can learn here is that "next-gen" refers to nothing more than the generation of console that follows the previous iteration. Thats it. Nothing else.

    If I ever have any kids, they will be the next-gen of me. When BMW bring out a new 3 series, it is the next-gen of the 3 series. Same for Zanussi and their washing machines. Whether my kids are smarter than me, the new BMW is faster than the previous model, or the new Zanussi gets your clothes cleaner is IRRELEVANT. They are next-gen because they came next.

    The idea of next-gen actually meaning something additional that is tangile and factual is just something console makers say in order to get you to spend more money, and I'm frankly surprised that DB is getting involved in such a ridiculous discussion (except for the reason Xerxes touched on, which is that he has something to sell).
    Edited by 1 at 11/10/07 @ 15:35

  • BobsUncle #130 4 years ago

    Personally, I got more excited about the mention of Jack Bauer than anything else.

    Although, I'm still waiting for the day someone announces 'Arnie: The Game'. One day...

  • mash the x button #131 4 years ago

    what kangarootoo said :-)

  • DjFlex52 #132 4 years ago

    "Old news. Anyone still expecting this gen to deliver something that could be called 'next gen' is crazy. The consoles already struggle with the HD upgrades of 10 year old game templates..."

    @Les

    So that's what this is? Calling someone crazy is constructive criticism...my bad!

    "Why?! Without a little constructive criticism developers might think they can simply get away with doing the same game again and again and again and again and again and, etc. each time enhancing the graphics a little. Gaming media sure as hell don't care about this nor the graphics whores around here. But for some of us, that just isn't enough. I'm one of them, but I'm sure there are others. With each generation I get less enthusiastic about this hobby and I think it would be a shame for the video game industry to lose revenue people like me generate. So they'd better take action."

    At least, my comment to you made you elaborate your views. Thank you.
    I don't totally disagree but I think you need a new hobby if gaming makes you so down in the dumps, Les.

  • kangarootoo #133 4 years ago

    "I'm one of them, but I'm sure there are others. With each generation I get less enthusiastic about this hobby and I think it would be a shame for the video game industry to lose revenue people like me generate."

    Thats just age. As we get older, we play less games (and we get more cynical about the ones we do play).

    Publishers don't need to continually keep chasing our pension money so longer new gamers keep getting born :)

  • mrpsb #134 4 years ago

    I can't wait for the "next gen" version of Elite 4, but it's already defeated Frontier several times, and now they seem to have given up. Maybe it could be a joint Lionhead/Frontier production, imagine the press releases.

  • asdfffdsa #135 4 years ago

    I'd have to agree with Halo 3 and Bioshock not being next gen. I couldn't bring myself to finish either of the games. They're the exact same thing we've played in the past, but with slightly modified weapons, slightly better graphics, and slightly better AI (in other words, the bare minimum). For someone like myself, who has been playing FPS games since "the beginning", I can't fall for the hype of Halo 3 or Bioshock at all. I understand how a lot of younger gamers might be siked about these games, though.

    Portal is really the only new game that has a significantly fresh aspect to it; I haven't been pulled into a game by that extent for a while now. There better be a continuation.

  • YourMessageHere #136 4 years ago

    Point...missed. Next-gen as a phrase does, I agree, literally mean the next hardware generation. But it's not being used literally here, as is plainly obvious. It's been repurposed and become a gamemaker buzzword, and like it or not its meaning is beyond the literal. Case in point: filmmaker buzzwords. "Adrenaline-pumping" "high octane" and "rollercoaster ride" are three things you'll see written on any number of actiony films. Are you seriously expecting raised pituitary gland activity, byproducts of fractional distillation and theme park attractions? Repurposed words. Next-gen is just the same. Jade Redmond's doing it today on the Beeb news site.

    And while he's clearly out to sell his game primarily, perhaps the guy genuinely feels that he wants a more complex level of gameplay in the games he makes (you know, like Elite was, compared to everything else at the time, or in fact most things since), and this phrase happens to be what people are presently using as shorthand to mean something like that. Maybe that's why he still makes games.