Bethesda to raise Fallout level cap to 30 Comments by Tom Bramwell

No need to bother there's already mod for it :D

Please let the no PS3 DLC rhetoric be bollocks and release it later in the year.

Or maybe I should suck it up and get a 360....Ok March it is when I can guaran-damn-tee I get a Jasper Elite.

I thought the enemies scale based upon whatever level you discovered reached that area at anyway? so grinding up before visiting a new area makes it pretty pointless.

Awesome, I thought the level 20 cap was too little. Seeing as I was nowhere near done exploring when I hit it, but my incentive to combat kinda dwindled away afterward.

Shame it doesn't hit with the first DLC but with the last one.

@Pirotic

I do think some areas featured standard tougher enemies, but I may be mistaken

Yay! Paying through your nose to increase a variable with 10, at least Black Isle had the common sense of doing things like that in a patch for free. It's awesome, playing an rpg where they remove all stats management and character building after the initial few hours.

Fallout 3 is a great game but the lvl 20 - or even a lvl 30 - cap is a cosmic joke and with paying extra to up it it's a rather bad one at that.

Xerx3s - I think you're being a bit unfair since it's not like the DLC in question is just going to raise the level cap. One of the features of most MMO expansions is a raised level cap - is that a rip-off too? Obviously just selling that single feature would be pretty cheeky but presumably since this DLC is intended to actually carry on the story (IIRC) you would expect it to have more challenging combat etc which might require a higher level character?

@Xerx3s:

By level 15 or so you're already overpowered that the game isn't a challenge anymore, if you could reach 30 it would just be pointless...

Well here's hoping they can make certain areas a bit more difficult then..

@Xerx3s
amen, brother. the levelling in fallout 3 was broken, along with the balancing. you could be a master of all trades by about level 10 which destroyed the excellent i-can-be-good-at-this-but-at-the-cost-of-this mechanic of the originals.

why are do so many modern rpgs start off hard and get easier to the point of triviality? was anyone really having fun just walking around the wasteland one-hit-killing super mutant after super mutant? i found it so dull, and i really don't see any appeal in extending an already over-stretched end game.

Thank you very much Bethesda. I'll happily be paying for this

"I thought the enemies scale based upon whatever level you discovered reached that area at anyway? so grinding up before visiting a new area makes it pretty pointless."

It still sounds better than Oblivion where "grinding is pointless, period".

"Along with removing the game's 'ending"

Hopefully all version will get this.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

As someone already mentioned. The enemies scale up with you so it's actually easier to win the game by being a low level character with powerful weapons. How the hell Bethesda have not tried to fix that instead of increasing the level cap (something that in the games current form, is meaningless) is beyond me.

miiiguel - Grinding (or even leveling without doing it a very specific way) in Oblivion is worse than pointless - it's detrimental to your character's effectiveness. Never understood why they thought having enemies level with you was a good idea, especially given the Elder Scrolls system of leveling through skill use so allowing you to level up without necessarily raising any combat-related skills!

"Xerx3s - I think you're being a bit unfair since it's not like the DLC in question is just going to raise the level cap."

We all know why it is included in a DLC pack and why it was put in the game in the first place so no, I don't think I'm unfair.

"By level 15 or so you're already overpowered that the game isn't a challenge anymore, if you could reach 30 it would just be pointless..."

Errr, no. I've been lvl 20 for 70 hours now and yes, most of the lower enemies are easy but from time to time I still get my arse handed to me. Even so, cutting away half the game elements just because you can't find a balance is stupid. They could have easily fixed it with several methods, one being the diablo way where you grow but enemies grow at a near equal rate. You would always have to be cautious and still have the element of picking the right skills for building your character.

An RPG is about building and playing a character. A lot of the fun comes from planning, micromanagement and then seeing if what you picked was the right thing. If you remove that entire section within the first couple of hours - and don't even warn the player in advance! - you're essentially removing the kidney of the game. Sure, you can still play and it's still fun to a certain lvl but in the end, without that extra bit it won't last half as long nor be as much fun as it could have been.

Sigh. I get that people are pretty anal about stuff like this (I'm too at times), but I also have a feeling people will never be satisfied whatever happens with these kind of games.

I think the levelling is fine. I'm about 15/16, quite happily sneak criticalled my way around RobCo nailing all in one hit... however encountered fire ants and found them much more nasty. I can't just belt into some place like a Talon stronghold and expect to survive but I do expect to swat down the bog standard nasties.

Xerx3s - I think you're being a bit unfair since it's not like the DLC in question is just going to raise the level cap. One of the features of most MMO expansions is a raised level cap - is that a rip-off too? Obviously just selling that single feature would be pretty cheeky but presumably since this DLC is intended to actually carry on the story (IIRC) you would expect it to have more challenging combat etc which might require a higher level character?

Why have a level cap in the first place, though? Especially when you can apparently advance past 20, at the requisite set XP levels, with a simple console command.

"zzzzzzzzzzzzzz "

Why bother posting when we all know you hate Fallout 3 anyway??

i just played on easy and still haven't reached the cap :P

And Ive almost finished exploring the entire map. When i eventually hit 20 ill just take the explorer perk and finish it off...

Easy gives you less experience. So takes longer to level up.

Just completely remove the entire ending. Including the end sequence. It was just terrible.

Shame really as the rest of the game was fantastic...

What a deceptive game Fallout 3 turned out to be. Initially I enjoyed it but found it a bit despressing and not as involving as the wonderful Oblivion. However, having now completed the 360 version after 50 hours of playtime and currently playing through it on the PC I realise that this game is every bit as addictive and good as Oblivion but in different ways. I absolutely love it and is has become my favourite game of 2008. Thus, I'm really looking forward to all the DLC, although I think I'll just get it for the PC version as that is the definitive version IMO, especially as it has some really cool user-mods.

Why is Microsoft so keen on making my life miserable? Paying hundreds of millions just to keep my PS3 from getting DLC. Why can't they spend that money to make good games instead? Grrrr.....

Didn't find that much of a problem so far with the level cap myself, just hit level 20, I am 1 quest away from finishing the main story, 80 hours in, and still have a third of the map to discover, not even stumbled across Oasis yet! Playing it on Hard too as I heard it can get too easy when you hit the cap. The harder enemies are still a challenge though, and with the Animal friend perk I don't have to bother fighting the lower lvl creatures wondering the wastes anyway.

The review did warn us about hitting the level cap too early, so for one, I'm very glad I had that in mind whilst playing through the game. Stayed away from all the perks that would speed the levelling process up. Thanks again for that tip Kristan. :)

So how does this work then? I'm maybe being daft but does "taking out the end" mean you can walk back out that locked door AFTER you go in the chamber? I can understand folk saying it was getting too easy anyway around level 20, but, after spending 60 hours or so being very boring and throwing all my XP at big guns/small guns etc. getting another ten levels to explore locking picking and the like will be enough incentive for me to go back.

I am at level 17 so far and find the levelling pretty much perfect. I can take care of most situations relatively easily because my small guns and stealth levels are very high, but I got completely dominated by a group of Raiders yesterday because of a few of my own mistakes and I still try and stay well clear of Deathclaws, Mirelurk Masters and those Bear things. In fact I find the difficulty pretty much perfect for a game where the main focus is exploration anyway.

@kinky_mong

+1

Exactly, 99% of my joy with this game is from the exploration too :)

Although, I'm glad it hasn't become way too easy like Oblivion did for me. Saying that though, that was kind of my fault for creating such a kick arse sword all I needed to do was draw the damn thing and enemies would drop dead at the sight of it... well, I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean. I did the same with Morrowind too, should have learned my lesson there.

"Why is Microsoft so keen on making my life miserable? Paying hundreds of millions just to keep my PS3 from getting DLC. Why can't they spend that money to make good games instead? Grrrr....."

Though I'm a big fan of platform exclusive games I really hope that platform exclusive DLC will quickly go the way of the dodo, like multiple console SKUs. Even if I rarely, if ever, buy multiplatform games myself, the confusion this generates with consumers isn't really helping the industry IMO.

But as long as the upsides for publishers (MS handing them millions, consumers stupid enough to buy multiple copies of the same game) outweigh the downsides (consumers getting annoyed of a publisher) we'll see a lot more of it.

The level cap wouldn't be so much a problem in most other games - it would just show bad design but it would normally be acceptable - but some games are games I play for years. Betheseda games are some of those, I easily clock 400 to a 1000 hours per game over the course of a couple of years (oblivivion was 700 I think). Imagine the kick in the teeth feeling when you hit the maximum level after the first 15 or 20 hours when you haven't even started on the first quest.

They didn't even put up as much as a warning.

With respect dude, I don't think they should be designing games for "edge cases" like you...

Udat has a point. Catering for the hardcore is one thing, but bloody hell Xerxes! 700 hours in Oblivion is the hardcore of the hardcore, and then maybe the hardcore from them too! How do you find enough to do in 700 hours? Or is that from playing the game with several different characters? Thinking about it, surely it must be!

personally i think you need a level cap in something like fallout, as you're ultimately just a normal guy - we have limits! also the perks are limited, and i'd sooner they have a concise list of well-thought out perks than 100s of arbitrary ones, or worse still, they allowed you to just keep picking perks from the current list until your character was some kind of all rounder demi-god. the original fallout games had level 20 limits and that was fine, so what's the difference?

the difference is that bethesda were so liberal with the exp that many players would hit the cap. i didn't come close in either of the previous fallouts or, say, mass effect, because the developers knew that the limit should be hit by only the most persistent of players. all it would take is to move a few variables around and the game would be all the better for it.

3 articles from one interview? good economising EG!

I think I get 700 gamehours a year for all my games:D

I did manage 130 Hours of Oblivion in 2 years though.

Hell, 700 hours is a lot. Still, I get what you're saying Xerx3s. I mean, I only managed 30 hours or so before F3 bored me to the point of quitting (I really dislike Oblivionesque games, but thought I'll give F3 a shot for the memories of the originals), but I think a lot of the boredom came from being lvl20 for the last 15 hours of gameplay.

I played on the hardest difficulty for the whole time, which got me to the level cap faster than playing on any other difficulty, but the effect was the same - the combat got so trivial I just couldn't be bothered. I really think if this issue was addresed my interest wouldn't dwindle as fast as it did.

Also Gecks, I agree with you that part of the charm of Fallouts came from you being roughly a normal guy, in Power Armour. Thing is, in F3 I found combat to be so easy I really didn't need even the max level and best equipment to own everything that moved. Being that max level for half of my playtime didn't help here, it's either bad gameplay balancing or it's my m4d 5k1lz0rs. And I really, -really- don't think it's the latter.

Really looking forwards to the new content. I wonder how the 'ending' will be dealt with.

Removing the ending? Interesting. I have looked forward to no downloadable content more than this, since i got a 360.

This is so badass; level 30 is an optimum enhancement for this game. If you don't have outside resources (I.e. computer access or a game guide) then you're probably not -too- uber-elite (especially if you're playing the X360 version, or the PS3 version), so this new level cap does offer new opportunities. I personally love destroying everything on the Very Hard setting with a few shots of A3-21's Plasma Rifle, or taking down an entire Mutant bastion with the Experimental MIRV, but most of us are only so good because of our gear and associated perks, so we are able to conquer and reign at level 15+ or so, or whenever you can wear Power Armor-- just in case you all didn't know, the Winterized Armor in Operation Anchorage is INVINCIBLE, and does NOT need to EVER be repaired, at least the X360 version is). Anyway! This is badass, and I'm very happy. I hope the achievements might be upped from 100gpoints to 200, but I don't think that's likely, and I don't think there will be any new perks...but still, it's badass. Plus, for all of you that own the PS3 version, don't be -too- surprised that Bethesda sided with Microsoft: I mean just look at the games that were released by the studio for both X360 and PC that came out FIRST for those two platforms, THEN came out for the PS3...It seems like Bethesda favors Microsoft (who wouldn't, such a monopolostic bastard of a corporation) over Sony, heh.