Banjo-Kazooie Comments by Kristan Reed

You people need to get over yourselves.
Already did. BK is 10 years old. I paid £50 or whatever it was 10 years ago for it. I'm not paying £10 again for it now when I can get something far better, and far more modern, for the same price. Therefore, 5/10.

And diddy kong racing was better than mk64
Getting eaten by a giant poo-monster is better than mk64. Definately the low point of the series, the SNES one is still best.

iPhone wanted to turn my mistyped diddy kong into 'soddy kong'
You may like Banjo then, tbh, as you appear to value style over substance.

you were being 'aggressive due to the tone of the topic' the topic being; retro cartoony video games ?

Then tell other people to get over themselves !?

Hahaha funny

50 quid ? Really ?

Iphone is my work phone. Would post with my phone - but would have to pay for it - and it only works half the time ! Agree over mario kart though .... I hope the poo was an apt conker reference ;-)

Editted for drunken abuse - apologies :-(

Yep. 50 quid was the norm for cartridge-based games of 10 years ago.

Beats the NES though with its £60-per-game thing. And that was the 80s ffs!

Not sure what shops you were buying from, NES games were 40 quid round my way in the late 80s. Still a lot for a teenager though to save up for here...

I remember paying £60 for DK64 and the exp. pack. I loved that game, despite the criticism levelled at it/the water level which sucked.

BK = love. 1200 points atm seems a bit steep, despite my oft-professed love. I know I'll be sorely tempted, however.

'Oh and all N64 platformers sucked. As much as the system did.

The N64 still sold more during its lifetime than the original Xbox. And more than the 360 has so far. '

The thing to pick out here is not system, but genre. He said that Mario 64 and BK sucked.

Which = LOL, seeing as the former is probably the finest ever, and the latter is almost as good.

Let us all agree 3D platforming < 2D platforming :P

Lies, had more fun on Mario 64 than any 2D game, including the glorious SMW.

I just looked on Live Arcade Marketplace for this and cant see it? Whats going on?

Really don't agree with the review. I'm still finding the game as engaging as I did originally. Soon as you start to grok the way the level design works any notion of "Trial and Error" gaming is blown away - you just start to understand where places and objects of interest will have been put - very satisfiying.

Much better than the humorless Mario64, or the sterile Super Mario Galaxy being produced by the Nintendo "Fun" camps.

"Retro game reviews are sort of pointless anyway."

I know I've already said this, but they're only pointless if you're looking back. Banjo Kazooie has just been released as a new Arcade game, and as such should be reviewed as one. You can't go around saying "all games should be reviewed fairly and honestly... except the ones I have fond memories of."

I still have my £49.99 receipt from day one inside my prestiene Banjo-Kazooie's box.
Ahh (:

Collecting IS fun and rewarding, I don't know why people would think otherwise. Sure some games have given collecting a bad name, but when it comes down to it there is nothing else that is a truly pure gaming experience.

Also Eurogamer, you forget to mention a classic gaming past time that died at the end of the 90s. I am of course talking about "clocking" games, which is to say finishing them as quick as you can while collecting as much as you can. The leaderboards for this game justify your clocking and you can see how good you are compared to your friends or on a world wide ranking.

And finally this is a piece of gaming history, you would be insane not to own it (though the price is a little insane too, considering that the people most likely to buy this will already have a copy of it in their closet).

The only fault is that I am a big boy now. When I first played it the worlds seemed HUGE and collecting everything on even a single level was a monumental task. But now that I have grown up the big boy toilet doesn't seem as big anymore. Wait, I mean the levels seem tiny in real life compared to how I saw them all those years ago.

And Eurogamer, why did you not mention the fantastic music? By far the best rendition of Teddy Bears Picnic ever created, and the seamless theme changes to the song as you walk around is something so simple and clever that you wonder why almost no other game has done it since.

I'd say this game deserves a 8/10 for the fans, 7/10 for everyone else and a 4/10 for the hyperactive tossers who masturbate over Halo and think that the story line in Halo was too cerebral for them to understand.

It's a shame that the reviewer knocked this port of the original Banjo Kazooie game for not meeting standards that I don't believe apply. The concept for this XBLA game was to either introduce or re-introduce the characters for their new X360 game. Instead of doing a vast overhaul of both sound and graphics, a la Conker on the original Xbox, they've utilized the original art and sound and spiffed it up to play on a widescreen TV. The results are better than I dreamed.

If you've ever downloaded a $10 N64 game from WiiWare, you'll see what happens when almost nothing is done to enhance a title. I got burned by Nintendo with Super Paper Mario, which looks pretty crappy on a modern TV. With BK, Microsoft has decided to go the extra mile by cleaning-up the character models so they're not jaggy and using a typeface that's very readable. Everything I loved about BK 10 years ago is still there, in high-res, with surround sound, and better than I expected.

As for the complaint in the review that this game shows off how bad game design was 10 years ago, I disagree. I'll play through this game for the next few weeks while I let everything else sit on the shelf. My 3 year-old daughter couldn't sleep the night I bought this game and when I sat her on my lap to show her what I was playing, she was instantly engaged and laughed out loud at the characters and their antics (especially as Banjo slides on his face down a slope before he gets the power to use Kazooie's claws). She's never really cared about any of the other games I've showed her. She calls it "My Game" now.

I look forward to getting some time this weekend to continue playing "My Game" with her as there really isn't anything like it out there right now. Rare was at the top of their form 10 years ago. They invested heavily in creating a memorable character and providing it with a world to interact and explore within. It was great then and is great now.

I'm really enjoying it at the moment. I only bought the xbox yesterday, got this straight away and all my new super-de-dooper graphic games are sat waiting till I finish Banjo.

One thing I noticed was different is that it will save your notes so if you die mid level you don't have to find all the notes again which is making it a lot less frustrating but somehow a bit less rewarding. Onto Mad Monster Mansion!

Ultimately it's still fun to play. Sure it's entrenched in old mechanics, but they aren't broken and the game is still enjoyable. I'd rather not justify it as I'm sure anything worthwhile will get lost in the other 119 comments on this story, but it really comes down to me getting everything in the game AGAIN and still thoroughly enjoying it. Nostalgia does not apply as I played it recently anyway.

They gave this a 5/10 because they judged some of the gameplay mechanics to be unpolished by today's standards? And they gave Fable II, a game that is fundamentally broken, a perfect score? What a joke

I will give ya £3.50 for it. Not £10.20 Greedy microsoft fuckers.

OK, I think I've FINALLY got the gist of this, after enduring countless comments lists (including this one):

1. Kristan Reed isn't allowed to write objectively, it hurts the Xbots' feelings.
2. Every game on the 360 must get high marks, or it hurts the Xbots' feelings.
3. If it doesn't get a high mark (based on hype / feelings towards game), then the XBots come together like nanobots with their cries of "I've played this, it's definately a 9, EG is wrong"... Even if the game's not out yet.
4. Don't put any numbers in a comment, the Xbots will pull bigger ones from their collective arse.

I mean come on, it's getting silly now. Play nicely. No need to so zealously defend the little off-white box of jet engines and red rings.

I think its more from the perspective that people gave this an internal high mark based on love for the game a long time ago. If goldeneye got ported and released now, it would get spanked in reviews. I actually found an N64 dumped in my apartments waste area a couple of years back. It had goldeneye with it and I booted that up with glee. Found that it looked and played like arse.

If it gets released now, then it has to be judged as such, not on memory.

@Widge
Finally someone with sense comments here!

@Widge:

I did the same thing, although I found mine in a cupboard at my grandad's house.

The amazing resolution of 320x200 or whatever it was really cuts into your eyes ;)

@seasidebaz

Try to step out of your role as fanboy inciter for just 1 post. Oh, and take your head out your ass while your at it.

We're discussing a game here, not a platform, so go and take your petty console war some place where people give a fuck about your pointless baiting.

@seasidebaz Yeah thianks for the brief history lesson on video games prices : if you had a time machine you'll find a forum posting I made making the point about snes games at the time ;) I had gone ntsc/imports by N64 times - so wasn't aware they were still that bad.

Kristan can't write an objective review. It would be damn near impossible and exceptionally boring of it was. He writes pretty damn good subjective reviews in my (subjective) opinion, I may not agree with his opinion - but value it.

Can't see where "xbots" and the rest really fits into this particular discussion - certainly agree with the general point though.

Like your iphone comment you have strong opinions which you like to share - whether they are appropriate or not ;-) I use mine for ssh, a lightweight wireless NAS, reading web pages - and rarely for phone calls. If I liked style over substance my main phone wouldn't be a N95 ;)

@widge

It's hard to say how we should approach reviewing of retro-games. I don't hold too much with the "games as art" thing. But if, for example, the original Nosferatu was re-released - anyone criticizing it for flickery picture quality, being in black and white or not widescreen would be laughed at.

We can either look at them in the context of the time, or as they stand up today. Very very few games manage to achieve success in both areas. Mario Kart snes as Seasidebaz mentions would be an example of one that would.

Just making a point though. The 360 has some great games, and I love my Xbox. The PS3 has some great games, and I love my PS3.

Both have shit games. The 360 has more games in total, and therefore more shit games than the PS3. But I have never seen a group actively defend the shit games as much as the people on here, defending every possible Xbox game to the bitter end.

BK is a 10 year old game. It has 10 year old mechanics. It has 10 year old graphics. It has 10 year old MIDI sound. It DESERVES a 5/10. N64 games don't age well, in fact 99% of 3D games don't age well. If I wanted to play an N64 game, I'll play it emulated seeing as I can then run it at 1600x1200 resolution with huge amounts of AA and ansiotropic filtering, with a framerate that remains rock steady throughout.

I'm all for retro gaming, but not when I already own / have owned / have completed the games, and then have to pay a further £10 for the same game where I can actually buy the original for about £1.99 and use it on the hardware it was made for. (edit: Plus, you can't even pay £10 for it. You need to buy points in stupid denominations, and the nearest is 2100 points for £17... Or about the price of a decent pre-owned game)

I don't try and "do" fanboy inciting, I leave that to Eurogamer and their faceoffs. What I DO do, however, is agree with most of the reviews that emerge. Trouble is, the Xbox fanboys on here are just that. Complete, unabashed, fanatical fanboys, willing to believe that the Xbox360 is the last bastion of hope for gaming.

If I really wanted to incite fanboys, I can just spout the truth: The 360, 2 days after its 3rd birthday, surpassed sales of the original Xbox. Which were totalled up over the 3 years 6 months that it was available. And THAT console was deemed a failure.

I'm a little late after so many similar comments but I just have to say that I totally disagree with this review. It still plays really well. I haven't enjoyed a game this much in ages. I got this last Wednesday, along with Nuts & Bolts and Left 4 Dead. I've barely touched Left 4 Dead. The two Banjo Kazooies are far better in my opinion.

@seasidebaz

"I have never seen a group actively defend the shit games as much as the people on here"

YOU think the game is shit. The general concensus from posters here is that they DO NOT think the game is shit.

There was no need to bring the fanboy issue up, so you are infact, trying to incite a fanboy debate.

Just leave the platform out of it. It's irrelevant. Try to debate on the relevant topic instead.

@seasidebaz

You're off-target, mate. It's not Xbox fanboys you're dealing with, it's N64 platform game fanboys (and their young children, apparently - thanks fanboy_bionicjim).

And we're totally right and you and Kristan are wrong.

"I have never seen a group actively defend the shit games as much as the people on here"

YOU think the game is shit. The general concensus from posters here is that they DO NOT think the game is shit.

Touchy. And proving my point.

"Touchy. And proving my point."

No baz, not proving your point at all.

You see, people are defending the game as an entity completely separate from the platform it's hosted on. I'd wager some people defending BK here don't even own an Xbox.

In fact, and I really cant be arsed to check, but I would guess you are the first person in this thread to mention platforms at all.

I'm not the first, and it's nothing to do with the platform it's on.

As I said, it's a 10 year old game, with 10 year old mechanics, 10 year old graphics, 10 year old MIDI sound, and hasn't aged well. At all. And this coming from someone who, when I went and bought that marvellous grey cartridge, had a 6 hour non-stop session on it. And loved every single minute of it.

edit: I'd wager some people defending BK here don't even own an Xbox.
Then they have no room to talk.

ouch

Part of the trouble with the balance of this review is that this site appears to believe that it's perfectly acceptable to appreciate new releases with gameplay that is 20 years out of date, but gives a sound beating to one which has gameplay that is perceived to be 10 years out of date.

And the complaints about the graphic style are well out of order.

"I'm not the first, and it's nothing to do with the platform it's on."

May I redirect you a small ways up the page to this:

"1. Kristan Reed isn't allowed to write objectively, it hurts the Xbots' feelings.
2. Every game on the 360 must get high marks, or it hurts the Xbots' feelings.
3. If it doesn't get a high mark (based on hype / feelings towards game), then the XBots come together like nanobots with their cries of "I've played this, it's definately a 9, EG is wrong"... Even if the game's not out yet.
4. Don't put any numbers in a comment, the Xbots will pull bigger ones from their collective arse.

I mean come on, it's getting silly now. Play nicely. No need to so zealously defend the little off-white box of jet engines and red rings."


"hasn't aged well. At all."

IN YOUR OPINION. You see how that works? Everybody gets an opinion, and they are all valid. As you can quite plainly see, popular opinion is not the same as yours on this particular matter.


"Then they have no room to talk."

You want to stop people commenting on a game? Whether they like the game or not, I'm very glad you dont have the power to make that happen.

I think I love you.

@Widge - Erm... I think you'll find that some people are commenting on the game having played it on the XBLA as it has been available for pre-orders of Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts to download for almost two weeks now and for nought pence. So, no, in my case I'm commenting on the game having completed over 50% of it and for me it's every bit as good I remember so I don't need to wear rose-tinted spectacles. :P

@Mentalist(air) - I think it depends on the person reviewing it to be honest but Kristan Reed's reviews do seem more harsh and erratic than the others and rarely match my own views anyway so he's not someone who I'd trust for reviews particularly, especially in this case.

I'm not saying he's wrong or anything, that would be absurd, he clearly doesn't like the game. No, it's just that his reviewing criteria for these games seems at odds with how other retro games are reviewed, e.g. the dated Mega Man 9 which relies heavily on memorising level layouts - the dreaded "trail and error" gameplay - got 8/10 but that was reviewed by Dan Whitehead. He should have reviewed this IMO, not because he would necessarily have given it a good score but because I feel he would have been more objective about the game's shortcomings and flaws. He was one of the few who appreciated LEGO Batman for what it was for example and stood by it.

I loved Goldeneye, and once out of uni, bot play with Perfect Dark was awesome. I started off on the Dam on my replay and it was just awful. Plodded along, muddy as you say, the controls that seemed so tight at the time were suddenly awful coming from the land of twin sticks.

I would expect a good few games from the past wouldn't gleam so brightly now, Jet Force Gemini etc.

Not all old games become bad by default, some do get worse over time. I slapped Secret Of Mana on my PSP to see if it was rose tinted glasses telling me that it was fantastic after trying the atrocious Sword Of Mana on the GBA (one of 2 games I've returned, ever). Was happy to find that it was still a great game to play! Plus 2D sprites or not, it doesn't matter.

Mega Man 9 review is a fair comparison. I really enjoyed Mega Man 9 but that's not the point. The point is that Mega Man 9 relies a lot more on trial and error - or better yet - memorizing the level layout and enemy patterns, just as Darren posted. However in the Mega Man 9 reviews those were good things. In this BK review here it's bad game design. I guess some people, myself included, simply don't see why it's a good thing in Mega Man 9 but a bad thing in BK.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and reviews are subjective, that just happens when you have different reviewers. However, even though every reviewer will have their own opinion I think it's bad for the site if they do contradict each other; Unless they give good reasons but there aren't any in this review. After all I am visiting the site for an EG review and I don't want to check the name of the reviewer first just to know wether I can "trust" that review or not. I go to EG because usually I know I can trust their reviews. EG has great reviews and I often agree with their opinions but this review contradicts a lot of other EG reviews. Maybe the wrong person reviewed this game. That doesn't mean that I don't respect Reed's opinion, in fact I do - but it seems like this game could not have appealed to him in the first place which makes his opinon as worthless as a review of a metal album of someone who doesn't like metal. Of course it's still his opinion and that person will not find 90% of the things he is looking for.

Ahahaha thanks for the 3-page laughter Ninty fanboys. Yes and I believe this is latent N64 fanboyism acting up and little to do with current gen fanboyism (though neither is mutually exclusive).

And you keep wondering why gaming will never grow up.

The same way music will never grow up when people "discuss" what genre is better? People like to argue, so what.

OK, EG's scoring policy:

A five won't be a disaster. In fact those who won't have played the better games in the genre might even get a great deal of enjoyment out of it. In a lot of cases scores come down to user expectations, but the standards games are built on are constantly shifting sands; what is ground breaking in one generation is the bare minimum standard a few years down the line, and things we once tolerated routinely can suddenly become very irritating.

Now read the above and tell me a 5 is wrong. Cos it damn well sounds like a 5/10 to me.

Or Football or whatever.

Compared to most stuff on xbla this is good. A faithful port tidied up for HD widescreen. It's on a par with SM64 and that still rates highly. Banjo Kazooie is a classic game. So if ever a subjective review can be wrong this is it.

So hush about fanboyism. Is that the only argument people have on forums today? It's about reviewing a game and giving it a low score that would put a lot of people off who were sitting on the fence. Try the game its very good.

And it's not like the 360 is falling over itself with modern quality platformers or any really for that matter. Psychonauts is probably the best and that's an old xbox release.

@seasidebaz

"Cos it damn well sounds like a 5/10 to me"

But not to most people who have posted here, but you obviously know what we prefer better than we do ourselves, so fuck it, we'll all just agree with you and then will you shut the fuck up?

This game had a personality and humour that few games these days can match. Not only that, but it's a reminder of what is fast becoming a lost genre. For those facts alone I would rate this above a 5.

I still consider this era to be Nintendo and Rare's golden age. Where there was a drought in Nintendo's release schedule, then Rare would usually chip in a classic game of its own to fill the void, they complimented each other well.

Rare are fucking terrible.

@ merkdot "Rare are fucking terrible."

But not Banjo Kazooie! That game is class.