Assassin's Creed

By Tom Bramwell Published 17 July, 2007

Should make a killing.

There were lots of highlights at E3 last week - running into Rutger Hauer, firing a pump-action shotgun, talking to Peter Moore about his braces - but one of the greater disappointments was Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed demo at the Microsoft conference. Having grown up in the public eye as an archly mysterious, beautifully imagined medieval kill-'em-up with more than its fair share of good ideas, it saw high-flying assassin Altair bumble onto the big screen, bounce off a few NPCs, prance across a series of beams, stab and gurn and then fire up an accent not so much west of Jerusalem as west of Adam West.

Fortunately, playing it does a better job of uncovering its accomplishments. Taking control of the same level on Xbox 360 (a PS3 version running nearby was basically identical), we got to direct Altair through the crowded streets of Jerusalem towards Talal's warehouse and the promisingly knifey climax. Beginning at one of the level's highest points, we're told how the controls map - with the analogue sticks handling movement (walking) and camera respectively, while the right trigger handles "aggression" or "high profile" moves, like running, and the face buttons perform context-sensitive actions that map to Altair's limbs. It's not all that revolutionary, mind you - A may be "feet", but that mainly just means "jump", while X and B do the arms and Y's your head.

Holding the right trigger, then, we dart to the end of a little ledge and use the A button to spring from the rooftop towards the ground and a bale of hay that we've performed a "leap of faith" to land in. Hay-bales not only break your fall but, along with benches and covered market booths and sentry posts, serve as hiding spots when guards are pursuing you through the streets; break the line of sight and leap into one and you'll be given the chance to recover your anonymity, with a flashing alert status indicator in the top-left of the screen performing the function familiar to fans of Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid.

'Assassin's Creed' Screenshot 1

Every visible ledge, beam, wall and scaffold is a potential foothold on the prancing journey between objectives.

But that's enough about the hay. Striding onto the streets, the crowd mechanics quickly come under scrutiny. A diamond of face buttons in the top-right of the screen flash with context-sensitive commands, making it clear that you can either gently guide them out of your way or shove people to the ground. The former's preferable, of course, not least because a morale system that governs the NPCs means that bad behaviour could come back to cause you harm later on. Side-quests, previously mentioned by Ubisoft though fenced off at E3, contribute to your standing in the community and help exert your influence more positively, as certain groups aid your flight from the law or help guide you into restricted areas later on (the monks, shown at X06, for example). The crowd's a diverse bunch, too, and occasionally home to troublemakers, who are as good as their name.

The point of our E3 mission is, as you know, to take out the chap Talal, and the first phase is about reaching his warehouse. To this end you use the mini-map, which highlights mission objectives, as well as hiding spots and other useful information, to guide your movement. In the Microsoft conference presentation, this took the player to a high place, where Altair was able to kill a rooftop guard and send him hurtling to the streets below, before sneaking past the distracted soldiers who had previously blocked the stairway to Talal's base of operations. We decide to do somewhat the same, if only to test the game's claim that you can climb everything you can see.

'Assassin's Creed' Screenshot 2

At no point does the frame-rate become an issue, and the graphics - though less impressive these days than they originally seemed - are still wonderfully detailed.

The first thing we do is, we're told, a common mistake - we run up the wall and grab hold of a ledge, but then send ourselves leaping away from the wall by pressing jump. You don't need to do that - you can just press up on the analogue stick to advance to the next handhold, shimmy side to side or press B to drop down again. Movement, even over complicated changing surfaces, is confident and smooth, although you may find your view slightly restricted, and certain pauses and jerks are a little jarring in light of the excellent Tomb Raider Anniversary. That said, there's still some tweaking to be done, as producer Jade Raymond acknowledged in light of the E3 demo's reception, and the more important bit is how much freedom it gives you, which is a lot.

That freedom is particularly relevant when it's coupled to the game's vaunted, parkour-influenced free-running, which allows you to dart without risk across narrow beams, and hop between arches, walls and street furniture, adding a new, untravelled gameplay path to the traditional high and low. Where it works, it's wonderfully intuitive and balletic. Where it falls down, if you'll forgive the pun, it can set you awkwardly off-balance, but that's best taken in the context of the demo's E3 setting: were we playing Assassin's Creed from the start, rather than dipping into a level that our hosts tell us is certainly not the first, we'd have more time to learn the language of the game. What's more, it's already rare to find the controls exhibiting that kind of over-sensitivity to context that made you lock onto surfaces in Gears of War when you meant to run. And for that matter, if you do threaten to stumble into an abyss, Altair spins round on the spot and clings onto the ledge.

Experiments over, we decide not to bother with the man on the roof after all. He's suffered enough (and continues to, judging by the four other pods around us where he's being stalked and killed over and over, sometimes by throwing knife, which we hadn't seen before). Instead we descend to the ground again (descent, incidentally, is as fluid as ascent), and pick on a soldier minding his own business on the other side of the bustling courtyard that fronts the warehouse entranceway. As we move in close, equipping our assassin's middle-finger blade with d-pad-left, we're told to hit X to assassinate, driving the knife into our prey and then backing away as his body slowly catches up with the fact he's dead and topples. His relatively gentle fall masks Altair's role believably, and as the dead man's noticed and the other guards approach, there's no question we could easily be missed - as we are, as we slink up the stairs towards the objective.

As we approach Talal, the game is taken somewhat out of our control, as assassin and target argue about whether one or both is being stitched up. Altair - and we agree, his voice is a bit pants - certainly sounds convinced, and Talal is obviously not counting on his words to solve the problem, dispatching half a dozen guards to the warehouse floor for the demo's inevitable battle sequence. The good news here is that those fearing a Prince of Persia dichotomy of stylish platforming and stumbling combat can calm themselves, because Assassin's may not be Devil May Cry or God of War, but it's not a time-waster either; instead it's somewhere in-between, with an emphasis on timing rather than technical knowledge. Guards advance, you tag them with the left trigger to lock on, hold the right trigger to parry their blows, and use the X button, struck just as they initiate their attacks, to counter them with an executional response. Tricky at first, the slick killing animations soon begin to flow, and well-timed counters have the added benefit of restocking your health-bar, meaning that we went from awkwardness on the back foot to violent gains within a matter of moments.

But there's no time to enjoy that, because Talal makes a break for it over the rooftop, and must be pursued and assassinated. This is where the minutes we spent messing around on the roof and dancing over the heads of civilians pay off, as our fleetness of flying foot allows us to close the gap in record time, take a final step off a market stall and leap onto his back to sink the blade in. As Talal expires, killer and victim speak again, on a white background, seeding yet more doubt as to the nature of Altair's mission.

'Assassin's Creed' Screenshot 3

Combat is simple and stylish, and didn't take us long to grasp.

When they finally shut up, the demo moves onto its final phase: the escape. Getting away will form the back-end to each of the game's nine missions, according to Ubisoft. The soldiers who chase you just want to keep the peace, and if you break the line of sight they will assume you're gone for good, which is fine by them, so the real trick isn't escaping so much as evading. Hiding spots pepper the mini-map, and you soon come to recognise them on sight. The devs claim to have avoided the copy-and-paste design that blights some 'sandbox' games, but they're sensible enough to allow for a uniformity of mechanical elements such as these, and - in another useful touch - legislate against the traditional stealth problem of not being able to tell when the coast is clear by offering an alternate camera view that tracks the nearest guard. When the alert status drops sufficiently, a message along the left indicates you can move off again, and make your way the final few steps to the assassins' headquarters. The message, playfully, says, "Reinitialising..."

It's one of a number of things that point to the 'big reveal' that we're all waiting for, and which Ubisoft continues not discussing. The noises in our headset that signal optional camera alternatives are called "glitches" by the developer walking us through the demo, while little splashes of glimmering data read-outs pop up around enemies and other elements, reinforcing the impression that Altair's Third Crusade home is not so ancient after all. The best hint we've had up to now actually came from an actress, Kristen Bell, who said that the story is based on the idea "that your genes might be able to hold memory", while the X06 demo included a reference to "memories /01" on the game-over screen. Altair is not a time-traveller, we're told again, but they're clearly going somewhere with this, and we doubt it's just the Holy Land.

'Assassin's Creed' Screenshot 4

The shonky 'crash detection' in crowded scenes during the conference demo was less prevalent hands-on, and Ubisoft promises further refinement pre-release.

Whether or not the game's secrets live up to their hype is not something Ubisoft's likely to help us decide any time soon - in fact, we'd be surprised if they openly discuss what it's all about this side of the game's release on PS3 and Xbox 360 in November - but the developers we talk to at E3 are adamant that the game itself will be compensation enough. The level we've played is "fairly early on", though not the first, and the full game will require players to complete missions to access some of the abilities we're able to use - certain weapons, techniques like grabbing the side of a building as you fall, or tackling people in the crowd - although the initial move-set is still aiming to impress.

Indeed, if the full game successfully expands on the range of mechanical and exploratory options on offer here, we're all in for a bit of a treat. Not unlike Killzone 2 and the USA Today screenshot, then, Assassin's Creed wasn't done any favours by its E3 conference presentation, but a proper look dispels some of the doubts it planted. Return roflcopters to roflpads.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (80) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Syrok #1 5 years ago

    Are there any spoilers in this article? Cause if there are I'm not going to read it.

  • Zomoniac #2 5 years ago

    NEEEEEEED!

  • Zomoniac #3 5 years ago

    Are there any spoilers in this article? Cause if there are I'm not going to read it.

    No more than if you watched the conference. If you didn't, then yes there are.

  • Kiigan #4 5 years ago

    As great as the game looks, I find the sci-fi bullshit that has been tacked on be wholly unnecessary and possibly a deal-breaker.

    Obviously we'll need to know more, but from the play footage shown at the Microsoft E3 press conference there was lots of Terminator-style HUD info, Matrixy text and futuristic fuzzy interference on the screen etc. That all seems really quite bad. Why not just make a nice game set in ancient Jerusalem? Why introduce such silly sci-fi elements?

  • menage #5 5 years ago

    The presetation only brought my anticipation to a normal level, which is good. The hype was getting ridiculous.

  • afghan_jones #6 5 years ago

    sounds good. Im with Kiigan though in saying the sci-fi stuff feels a bit weird even at this early stage.

  • brooza #7 5 years ago

    I want this game

  • afghan_jones #8 5 years ago

    Also, What gives EG? You just ran an Assasins Creed story with no pics of Jade 'geeks choice' Raymond.

    You did mention her a couple of times though I guess...

  • ratso #9 5 years ago

    I think the combat should require a lot of skill, its no good having open-ended structure when you can just kill everyone. (so far combat looks too easy)

    why bother avoiding those guards at the start of the e3 demo?

    Same goes for the platforming, the more skill required the better.

    i hope this game will be ,initially, difficult to control but rewarding once mastered

  • Chaote-Imagicka #10 5 years ago

    "So you completed 12.5% of the game in the demo then looks sweet but a short lived fantasy just like jade "

    That depends on just how much fun can be had with the side stuff and the AI reactions. The main storyline of San Andreas can be beaten in a day or so if you're good and avoid all distractions/optional stuff.

    Also he did specify that several moves he found useful were specially unlocked for the demo and would require side missions being completed to learn in main game.

  • t8yman #11 5 years ago

    havent read the article, but from what I saw on the live demo, the animations and framerate were awful, couldnt be less excited about this game if I tried.

  • ccfb #12 5 years ago

    "basically identical"

    The problem with writing something like that is it's not saying "ACTUALLY identical" and makes people think there ARE differences.

    If it's identical, say so?

  • MrBiggles #13 5 years ago

    Not impressed with this game, stupid glowing enemies... do the developers think people are idiots and need things pointed out with glowing auras?.

    And English voice overs don't work in this game. plus the gameplay looks average at best, bad frame rate, and glitches.

    It's a mess that deserves no hype, like Jade Redmond, Miss big chin Manager who doesn't make games so should get no credit for this game.

  • SeesThroughAll #14 5 years ago

    I dunno about this any more. The game seemed to have some nasty glitches when it was played at Microsoft's press conference.

  • varsas #15 5 years ago

    Return roflcopters to roflpads.

    ROFL

  • ruckus #16 5 years ago

    Kiigan: Why not just make a nice game set in ancient Jerusalem? Why introduce such silly sci-fi elements?

    +1
    Why oh why oh why indeed. Ubisoft you've ruined my day :(

  • rudedudejude #17 5 years ago

    On level 9 he takes his cloak off and is really Sam Fisher!

    That's why they have to put sci fi in.

  • SeesThroughAll #18 5 years ago

    I'm also with Kiigan on that.

    A game with a medieval setting sounded great to me. Stick to it Matrix rubbish, and that would be a great way to ruin it for me...

  • Max_Powers #19 5 years ago

    Please let them drop the sci-fi shite. It's not as if there isn't enoug sci-fi in gaming as it is... :/

    The announcement on that stuff made my enthusiasm for this game drop 90%. The horrible state the game was shown in doesn't do a lot to build trust in a polished release either.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 12:21

  • LeD #20 5 years ago

    MrBiggles, leave Jade out of this, Mr Knobjockey, or I'll tear you a new one.

    As for the surmised sci-fi setting, I'm not sure I like it either.

  • septimus #21 5 years ago

    Little annoying that you didn't try the PS3 version also. It was right there for any things sake.

    No one else has compared the 2 as far as I have read, you could have done something different from every other games site for a change.

  • TONYgr #22 5 years ago

    hey guys!it has glitches because it has 4 months more until release.be patient!we are talking here for the same team that gave us pop and splinter cell!

  • Yossarian #23 5 years ago

    Kiigan: Why not just make a nice game set in ancient Jerusalem? Why introduce such silly sci-fi elements?

    so that sequels can retain the mechanics but be set in alternative environments and time periods

  • bonker #24 5 years ago

    Loving the background-blur effect - makes it like film-ish.

    Will the PS3 version have the same effect??

  • Masakados #25 5 years ago

    Here it comes the new Ubi franchise, after PoP and SC. Be ready to receive a new sequel every year. I have to try this before buy, and of course, I want to know more about that sci-fi thing... I know i´m not gonna like it if it starts on a medieval setting and ends dodgind bullets.

  • DjFlex52 #26 5 years ago

    I'm so glad there is no demo of AC for us gamers at this E3...also include Mass Effect, Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Halo 3 SP, Lair, R&C and Stranglehold on that list. So many complained about no demos of them. Demos should mainly be for games that don't get the media attention and sleeper games. We already know about the games I mentioned ad nauseum...can anything be left for surprise? A demo would kill what's left of the unknown. Look what demos did to Crackdown and Motorstorm.....we saw too much of them and other demo games so when they did come out they were sort of a letdown. I don't even want to see anymore trailers....I want to have some surprise left playing Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect and Bioshock, Heavenly Sword etc. Sometimes Nintendo keeps too much of their games a secret but I'll take that over knowing too much.

  • MrWonderstuff #27 5 years ago

    Moaning whinging gamers. Gawd who would be a developer?

  • SeesThroughAll #28 5 years ago

    Little annoying that you didn't try the PS3 version also. It was right there for any things sake.

    No one else has compared the 2 as far as I have read, you could have done something different from every other games site for a change.

    It's the exact same game, why bother trying both versions or in fact comparing them? To flame fanboy wars?

    There will be lots of PS oriented sites where they tried the PS3 version. Also, in all likeness, you'll find their comments to be quite similar to those you find here.

  • Smugglarn #29 5 years ago

    Why the sci-fi twist? Seems totally redundant to me, but then again so does Canada...

  • Wobble #30 5 years ago

    to the "12.5% after one mission it must be short" people... the dev said it was 'near the start of the game, not the first mission' .. so the level played was not 12.5% of the total game, it finished at that point :p

    They've said that he's not a time traveler, but that doesn't stop the future missions taking place in different time periods, the stored ancestral memory thing could be from different generations of his family.. ala blackadder :p

  • jonnyreb #31 5 years ago

    /Tries to imagine Prince of Persia: Sands of Time with a 'sci-fi twist'

    /Fails

  • sport #32 5 years ago

    It's the exact same game, why bother trying both versions or in fact comparing them? To flame fanboy wars?

    coz then we could have seen better frames becoz of teh power of the cellol ;-P

  • afghan_jones #33 5 years ago

    If its to do with genetic memory I like to think the later levels of the game involve playing as a middle aged office worker in a small town in rural england going about his day to day life with a constant niggle that he ought to be running around on rooftops stabbing folks in the eye.

    Basically you just suppress these feelings deep down for 5 levels of basic office admin and at the end of the game you get a brain tumor as a result.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #34 5 years ago

    That's fantasy, not sci-fi, you pillock.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #35 5 years ago

    Look what demos did to Crackdown

    What, cemented its reputation as not just a free pack-in with the Halo Beta and helped it sell more than a million copies?

  • kangarootoo #36 5 years ago

    I too am not really keen on any sci-fi type gubbins. Hopefully it won't matter much in the end. I'm sure climbing about will be fun or otherwise regardless.


    "Moaning whinging gamers. Gawd who would be a developer?"

    Hehe, not me..... oh.

  • kangarootoo #37 5 years ago

    @DjFlex52

    I'm not sure we palyed the same demos. In the cases of both Crackdown and Motorstorm, the demos gave me a solid and positive impression of what was to come, and the final games more than delivered on the expectation.

    I think whether overexposure to demos can result in a letdown with the final product is much more dependant on the individual gamer than with demos themselves.

  • Kiigan #38 5 years ago

    @Yossarian

    "so that sequels can retain the mechanics but be set in alternative environments and time periods "

    That's not a good enough reason. You could still set sequels in alternative environments and time periods without the sci-fi nonsense.

  • Yossarian #39 5 years ago

    Crackdown ....we saw too much ...sort of a letdown.

    Nope.

  • Shrike #40 5 years ago

    I'd say there's a fair generic difference between "magic sand" and "science-based fiction".

    I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as far as the story goes, but I'm sceptical about the flashy particle effects, especially that full-screen lightning thing.. it just seems over the top, to me.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 13:46

  • DjFlex52 #41 5 years ago

    "What, cemented its reputation as not just a free pack-in with the Halo Beta and helped it sell more than a million copies?"

    @Mentalist(air)

    Hmmm, so Crackdown was the free pack in?...that means you paid full retail price to play a Halo beta. And you now have to pay again to play the whole game. That's a nice deal ;)
    It was a million seller because of the Halo beta not on the merits of the game itself....granted it was a fun game. The demo didn't make it a million seller. And quite a few people didn't buy it because the demo of Crackdown gave them enough game unless you wanted to play the halo beta. Not everyone is a dieahard Halo fan.


    "I'm not sure we palyed the same demos. In the cases of both Crackdown and Motorstorm, the demos gave me a solid and positive impression of what was to come, and the final games more than delivered on the expectation."

    @kangarootoo

    You know we played the same demos, kangarootoo ;) The demo of Crackdown gave more than a solid impression...it practically gave the whole game. And you're right...it depends on the individual player and I expected more from each game...more mission oriented gameplay from Crackdown and more tracks and better online from Motorstorm.
    As you said...to each is own :)
    I assume you'd love more demos from AAA titles. For me, if it is a true AAA game then it shouldnt need a demo...I'll wait for the full game and the surprise of its greatness therein.

  • El_MUERkO #42 5 years ago

    Return roflcopters to roflpads.

    never!!!

  • Yossarian #43 5 years ago

    I said it before and I'll say it again: I got more out of the Halo 3 beta than most full-priced games.

  • kangarootoo #44 5 years ago

    @DjFlex52

    Well of course, I was being sarcastic (in truth, I'm not sure I even know how NOT to be half the time) :)

    I agree the Crackdown demo DID sort of give us the whole game in a way (at least in terms of the demo player not really feeling they were being restricted anyway), except it was limited insofar as it timed out after your skills got to a certain level.

    So I played the demo loads, and thought it was a really generous demo. I probably put the "standard" 10 hours into the Crackdown, but I always knew in the back of my mind that the full game would give me even more. I knew what that "even more" would be, but personally that didn't impact my fun when I got the full title.

    I tend to like really generous demos. Now I guess that seems obvious, so I'll expand. The way I see it, a demo is an advert. Its purpose is to get me the player interested and increase the chances of me giving asway my money. So when a demo acts like I am privileged to be playing it (strict timeout, quitting at the end, forcing me to watch a whole shed load of advert stills) I get really bloody annoyed.

    The Crackdown demo actually spoke to me (not ACTUALLY, that would just be bonkers). I thought "you really get it, you realise that a demo is supposed to be fun, it is supposed to make me like you and your game". So all said, I had a fine old time playing the demo, never once felt I was being ill treated by some stingy marketing peon, but never quite feeling completely satisfied due to the natural limitations of the demo.

    Also, in the case of Crackdown the publicity itself wasn't that prevalent. I remember seeing screens a while ago, but not being particularly moved because I think it is fair to say the art style is a little bit benign (very pretty, but no real sense of character). If I hadn't played the demo I almost certainly wouldn't have bought the game (didn't care about the Halo3 beta).

    Plus the word of mouth surrounding the demo was amazing. I can't recall how many times I saw or heard the following conversation.

    "Have you played the Crackdown demo?"
    "Gave it a try. it didn't grab me."
    "Me neither at first try it again."
    ...
    "Tired the demo again. Its bloody fantastic once you start jumping about the place."


    I am rambling on far too much, but clearly the demo in question left an impression on me, and many others. So I guess what I am saying in such a roundabout way is that demos can be a very good idea if they are done right :)

  • bit_mite #45 5 years ago

    Hmm, from the looks of all those angry comments I'm the only one who thinks the sci-fi twist is kinda cool. Sounds more interesting than a straightforward mediaeval setting.

    Plus (hopefully) it means the plot will be a bit more developed and original than the usual bad-guys-killed/abducted/imprisoned-your-father/sister/cat-a nd-now-you're-working-your-way-through-seventeen-lieutenants -with-big-health-bars-before-confronting-chief-bad-guy-thus- saving-civilisation-from-ancient-evil.

  • bit_mite #46 5 years ago

    For the record, the Crackdown demo pretty much sold me that game too.

  • Edwannawonga #47 5 years ago

    Looks like a brilliant game imo. Who really REALLY cares that much about the story line?

    *penny drops*

    Ahh! So that's why Lost Planet didn't get glowing reviews. I always thought it was because it's a shallow albeit fun shooter.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 14:37

  • foamy #48 5 years ago

    I doubt that there is a "sci-fi" setting for the game. At most, it's for the sake of the plot. Like solving something that did not got solved in the past. Jade said the game would only be in Jerusalem and cities like that. I doubt they'll make playable 'present-time' levels.

  • DjFlex52 #49 5 years ago

    "I am rambling on far too much, but clearly the demo in question left an impression on me, and many others. So I guess what I am saying in such a roundabout way is that demos can be a very good idea if they are done right :) "

    @kangarootoo

    You might have rambled on but there wasn't much in your comment I could disagree with. :)
    I played the demo loads too and there wasn't much more to the game besides killing the other gangs (same gameplay with all gangs) and getting Achievements.
    Most demos cannot do what Crackdown did in theirs though.

  • rudedudejude #50 5 years ago

    Where can we view this bug ridden sci-fi gayness video?

  • Martin #51 5 years ago

    The sci-fi twist sounds ace!

  • kangarootoo #52 5 years ago

    "I'm the only one who thinks the sci-fi twist is kinda cool."

    Its bit_mite's fault. GET HIIIM!


    "Shrike "I'd say there's a fair generic difference between "magic sand" and "science-based fiction"

    Then I hope you never read Dune."

    Hehe, nice one.

  • dr_faulk #53 5 years ago

    Everyone's just mad about the game 'cause they're mad about that Jew Raymond. I mean, Jade. Jade Raymond.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 15:23

  • Shrike #54 5 years ago

    Willing to argue this for argument's sake. PoP: Sands of Time is fantasy by virtue of being a fable - it could have been a Disney film, if not for all the violence. The "magic sand" facilitates the plot.

    Assassin's Creed, and Dune, have a core idea - genetic memory/magic sand (oh, go on then) which the plot explores. Sands of Time doesn't care how the magic sand works, or what its consequences are beyond the prince's adventure. There's every indication that Assassin's Creed is very much about exploring this idea of genetic memory - if it wasn't, there'd be no reason for it to be there as it doesn't seem to contribute anything to the "medieval" gameplay. Therefore, Assassin's Creed is science fiction as opposed to fantasy.

    Good call on Cloud Atlas, though.

  • kangarootoo #55 5 years ago

    I was once informed by a clearly wiser poster than I on these pages that anyone who brings a dictionary to an argument is "a twat", but I think I'll take a bullet for the sake of the team on this one.

    [link url=http:/ /dictionary.reference.com/browse/fantasy
    ]http://di ctionary.reference.com/browse/f...[/link]
    [link url=http:/ /dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiction
    ]http://di ctionary.reference.com/browse/f...[/link]

    From the above we can determine that fantasy, among other things is, "a hallucination" and also "caprice, a whim". Whereas fiction is "an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation".

    So thats cleared that up then.

    cthulhu_steev, the woman you work is clearly mad, and as such probably supports the death penalty ;)

    Seriously though, fantasy has one definition of "imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained" and fiction has one of "the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining", which to my twatish eyes are almost identical. So we can probably put this one to bed without too much further effort or disagreement.

  • bonker #56 5 years ago

    "Here it comes the new Ubi franchise, after PoP and SC. Be ready to receive a new sequel every year. I have to try this before buy, and of course, I want to know more about that sci-fi thing... I know i´m not gonna like it if it starts on a medieval setting and ends dodgind bullets. "

    Ditto that.

    I get the slightest whiff of 'gun play' in this game and it goes from dead-cert purchase to add-it-to-the-huge-pile-of-360-FPS/TPS-games-that-i-dismiss- out-of-hand ...

  • rudedudejude #57 5 years ago

    So he has a sci-fi glass eye that he can throw and zoom and stuff?

    So ummm yah...its..just..thief then...

  • bunglebonce #58 5 years ago

    and we agree, his voice is a bit pants

    Agree with whom? I haven't noticed too many comments on it from other places actually, but I would certainly agree with the writer. And it's not just Altaïr's.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 18:10

  • Shrike #59 5 years ago

    @cthulhu_steev, kangarooto

    Hope neither of you think I'm having a go or being reactionary towards the game, but I am going to maintain that there is an important difference between science fiction and any kind of fantasy (be it futuristic fantasy, like Star Wars, or traditional D&D). Of course, if you hold that sci-fi = technology and fantasy = magic then the differences are completely superficial. But that isn't how it works.

    Both genres employ speculative elements to achieve their effects - this could be magic, dragons, gene memory, laser swords. Fantasy then builds its story with these elements, where they become part of the story. Their use is, to borrow kangarooto's dictionary definition, capricious, whimsical, etc.

    In science-fiction, speculative elements are the point of the story, and they form the crux of the speculative "argument" (again, from the dictionary) that the plot focuses on. The Matrix is a science fiction movie because it relies on its chief imaginative device (the idea of a computer world) to work as a story. You could tell Star Wars quite easily without The Force or the Death Star, because it's not about the idea of the thing as much as it is about the plot that results (see: Eragon.)

    The definition between fantasy and science-fiction is actually more apparent in games than in most books or movies, in gameplay terms. A fantasy game gives the player x and y abilities and then provides them with an environment in which to put them to use towards some end - for this reason, most games are fantasy. A science fiction game places the player in an environment where the abilities they have are the core of the experience, and where the player has to work within the mental environment that such abilities open up - Portal looks to be a good example of this. You couldn't do Portal without the idea of portals.

    I'd define Assassin's Creed as science-fiction (and believe me, just because I said I don't like the particle effects, doesn't mean I'm having a go at the genre) because the subjectivity of the "gene memory" idea and the fact that the UI jars so much with the medieval setting does funny things to the fourth wall. It reminds you that you're an outsider, controlling something that is alien to you. Whoever is controlling Altair in the game's story is contextually detached from the action in the same way that the player in their living room is. That's, to me, really interesting, and pure science fiction. If it were fantasy, you'd have a ye-olde style health bar and minimap and be done with it, because there'd be no need to start exploring such ideas as "who is really controlling this?"

    I'm sorry to go off on one like this, but I think if you gloss the difference between fantasy and sci-fi you lose a sense of the craft of "speculative fiction" as a whole.

    /rant off.

  • smelly #60 5 years ago

    *snore*

  • WJF #61 5 years ago

    Wait...so this game is a bit like POP meets thief and hitman? Not a simulation where you play a woman and have to pimp games to geeks?

    /confused

  • SeesThroughAll #62 5 years ago

    That was canceled as soon as the public realized that the geeks really were interested in the game.

  • Varsity #63 5 years ago

    I hate spoilers! Portal has been ruined by EG for me too. It's OBVIOUS that you're giving away major, major plot points: warn us better or better still don't do it in the first place!
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 20:05

  • smelly #64 5 years ago

    Meh.. I prefer spoilers - prevents me from playing a dull boring game just for the story then.

    If a game is spoiled by giving away the plot, then it's not much of a "game" imho.

    I play for fun, and not story lines..

    (exception to rule being gta - but then the story is pretty throwaway in those too)

  • jachap #65 5 years ago

    In terms of demos, I can't think of a single one I've ever played which has given me too much.

    The best I've ever played was Deus Ex, which let you play the first two levels in their entirety with nothing blocked off. My interest, initially piqued by a decent (if spoilerific) review in PC Gamer, soared into a vengeful game lust after those two levels.

    So long as you can transfer your savefiles over, I'm not complaining.
    Edited by 1 at 17/07/07 @ 20:45

  • figaro7 #66 5 years ago

    So its like POP with some stealth elements thrown in, for an open world, is it in some ways like crackdown in that you have to do hits in whatever fashion you see fit? Im intrigued, but the presentation in microsofts conference, the character was quite slugish and it just didnt look as fluid as pop. Still, im looking forward to it either way.

  • NegativeZero #67 5 years ago

    Add me to the could-do-without-the-sf-elements crowd. Personally one of the whole draws to the game was the whole setting. The Holy Land during the Crusades are a setting that I don't think has ever really been explored in games, and definitely not from the perspective of a Muslim Assassin. The science fiction genetic memory crap totally ruins that, IMO. The concept of a story told from that perspective in that setting is vastly more interesting to me than the concept of a story about some turkey in the near future remembering what his ancestor did via some pesuedo-scientific and rather implausible genetic memory.

    Why can't they go the whole hog? Are they afraid of some kind of anti-terrorist backlash or some such rubbish?

  • SeesThroughAll #68 5 years ago

    Why would they fear any backlash? If they had kept the story simple, you would still get a Muslim hero, he's a good guy trying to stop the Crusades.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #69 5 years ago

    I think the crux of the whole sci-fi agument here is that it's disappointing that we can't seem to have an action game set in a historical period before the second world war, that doesn't involve magic, mythology or a funny science fiction plot device that means it's not really set in the real past at all.

    Surely it should be exciting enough being an athletic assassin in the medieval/renaissance period without having to tie in some futuristic nonsense to it?

  • kangarootoo #70 5 years ago

    @Shrike

    Hey, no apologies man. Discussion is good (discussions backed up by thought anyway, which is what you are bringing).

    So if I understand this right, sci-fi is defined by saying if the specific science in questionb did not exist, the fiction would be unavoidably changed, as the fiction results directly from the implications of the "science".

    Whereas in a work of fantasy, the story drives itself and the fantasy forms the "scenery". If the specifics of the fantasy were changed, the fiction (story) could continue with minimum modification.


    It seems to me that the borders of those definitions could be pretty hazy deoending on the subject matter.

    E.g. Star Wars. The basis of the force is changed. Its not midiclorians (spelling?), its some kind of Harry Potter esque magic. Does that affect the story? The character development could still continue (which suggest that it is fantasy), but would key parts of the plot be affected by the change?

    E.g. 2. Matrix. Lets says the world of the Matrix is not inside a computer, but is actually a magical world. People are locked in dungeons in a magical transe, and believe that they are in a real world when in fact the "Matrix" is the result of Harry potter-esqe magic. Fundamental change to the science behind the scenes, but surely the key story components could exist unchanged (a few cosmetic changes withstanding, goblin instead of program, and so on).


    I also think, based on what cthulhu_steev said, that there is a seperate issue here, and that issue is the weight or value given to the distinction. He has experience of someone disregarding a written work because in their eyes it falls into one category and not the other.

    So on the one hand we have an open discussion and about what "fanstasy" and "sci-fi" actually mean (which I am sure we shall never resolve fully, language being the transient and contextual thing it is). And on the other we have people attributing value based on transient and contextual definitions (in some cases pretending these definitions are more objective than they are, to serve personal agenda), which I am sure cthulhu_steev is not alone in finding annoying.

    Not saying you are serving personal agenda Shrike btw; sounds like the cthulhu_steev colleague's son is though :)


    Back on topic. Would the absence of any suggested memory gubbins in AC really affect the plot a whole lot? It seems like there might be several layers of plot, one of which may be concerned with the immediate experience of the assassin, and another that is concerned with "what is really going on".

    So on that basis are some aspects of the plot are fantasy and some are sci-fi (meaning we can't really tag the whole game as one or the other)?

  • kangarootoo #71 5 years ago

    @smelly

    "*snore*"

    Was the discussion getting a bit high brow for you there? I think The Tweenies might be on the other side if you can find ther remote ;)

  • kangarootoo #72 5 years ago

    @Mentalist(air)

    Although I don't like the idea any more than you do, I don't really see it as a deal breaker. I think the core gameplay is much more important overall.

    Some people have actually said they like the sci-fi suggestions, so I guess they can't please all of the people all of the time. So long as climbing and sneaking is fun, I'll accept that some other aspects of the title simply aren't for me (though it would be interesting to eventually hear what drove the plot direction at some later date, if you are listening Ubi, purely from a dev diary point of view, no finger pointing we promise).

  • afghan_jones #73 5 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    I always looked at fantasy and sci-fi as separate genres.

    Science Fiction for me, was always based on the author building on real world science and ideas to create a 'what if' scenario, usually in the future or alternate reality. Typically the central conceit of any Science Fiction will be something that however outrageous is based in the rules of the real world and is something that we might imagine could come to pass in future (Time travelling robots, genetic mutants, alternate computer worlds, aliens etc). Fantasy, on the other hand for me has always been about the author presenting elements which do not need to be grounded by any scientific explanation or theory and are purely fantastical in nature (dragons, magic, goblins etc)

    Star wars is a good crossover, in that space ships, lightsabers and aliens would be thing I would consider sci-fi, as they have some grounding in 'real world science & rules, whilst the force is a fantasy element (unless you count the midichlorian bollocks, which I personally choose to ignore.)

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #74 5 years ago

    Oh, I'll still buy it if it's good.

    It's just that adding 'scifi elements' to an ostensibly historical setting seems like a sop to some theoretical mainstream that don't buy action games unless they're filled with thick-necked space manires.

  • kangarootoo #75 5 years ago

    @afghan_jones

    So I guess the division you make is,

    1. Sci-fi - Possible based on expansion and development of currently known scientific principles (or at least claims to be in the absence of future knowledge).

    or

    2. Fantasy - Never possible based on current scientific principles (and never claims to be).

    All of the above of course depends on us actually being correct in our assumptions about current scientific principles (hence my "absence of future knowledge" caveat).

    On that note it does seem that the boundary between possible and impossible (and therefore sci-fi and fantasy) is actually determined by our current understanding of science. So in 10k years we may expand our knowledge of science to a degree that things which we previously deemed 'fantastical' and now accepted as possible.

    I'm sure witches were burned in years gone by on the same basis. So maybe me and cthulhu_steev were right to in the sense that the two things are essentially the same thing, but perhaps we just aren't equipped to know it yet...


    @Mentalist(air)

    Agreed.
    Edited by 1 at 18/07/07 @ 16:36

  • afghan_jones #76 5 years ago

    @kanga

    Yeah, I guess I see Sci-Fi as doing what it says on the tin, so it would be fiction that has been grounded in or born out of science. Fantasy is just that, anything goes.

    I wouldn't necessarily say sci-fi had to be futuristic as I'd say alternate pasts such as in Resistance FOM are also sci-fi given their 'what if' premise.

    Maybe if you think of it as the force powers in Starwars being the 'fantasy' mental power versus the powers in say, Scanners which although equally fantastical, is given a pseudo-science grounding and I would therefore term sci-fi.

    Also, I'm with mentalist on saying I thought the game looked strong enough to stand on a historical premise rather than needing sci-fi elements involved. That said, we've only seen a whisper of what they might be so I'm holding off until we see more as I do really want to like this game.

  • Shrike #77 5 years ago

    I'd still consider Star Wars to be pure fantasy regardless of space ships, midichlorians, etc - I can't think of an example of a storyteller being careless or "capricious" with a fictional device than Lucas suddenly deciding that you can detect "the force!" with a needle. If Star Wars was sci-fi then a) the force would probably already have a detailed explanation before the prequel films and b) this explanation would not be introduced as a completely transparent plot motivator.

    So yeah, I agree with much of what has been said regarding sci-fi being about perceivable "what if's" (i.e, fictional science! who'd have thunk it) and fantasy not really caring how things work as long as they do. And I too am annoyed by people's reactionary judgements of things just because they fall into a certain genre - a similar thing happens to games in the mainstream press, of course. I maintain though that there's a difference between sci-fi and fantasy which goes beyond speculation and which concerns how we treat fictional ideas in our stories. Fantasy devices like magic are, ultimately, an elaborate deus ex machina. In sci-fi the idea of deus ex machina is challenged.

    As far as this relates to Assassin's Creed, this could be exactly what they're doing. I guess we'll see. The cynic in me is deeply worried though that there's something quite nasty behind this, and something which SeesThroughAll suggested: worry that a story where a muslim hero assassinates christian warriors will not sell to the mainstream.

    So here's your deus ex machina - you're not really a muslim! Fear not, imaginationless people who always play the allies in WW2 games - you are controlling this FROM THE FUTURE! Few games are brave enough to challenge the player politically or morally - in fact, if UbiSoft learn anything from Thief while making this game, I really hope it's that.

    If you put the pieces together, Altair's American accent included, it makes quite an ugly picture.

  • Daymare #78 5 years ago

    It's funny.. I've never really put much thought into why is something called Fantasy and something else Sci-Fi only because I could somehow "sense" the difference (that distinction probably "forced" upon me through the years). While writing the sentence above, something else sprang to mind: isn't Sci-Fi a sub-genre to Fantasy, much like horror genre is (only in a different way)?
    Edited by 1 at 19/07/07 @ 12:10

  • smoothn00dle #79 5 years ago

    fantasy, sci-fi???

  • miller343434 #80 5 years ago

    @Daymare

    not at all because fantasy is to do with magic the majority of the time and science fiction as the name suggests is to do with science

    @afghan_jones

    I personnaly would choose to ignore you
    Edited by 2 at 25/07/07 @ 16:04