Analyst doubts Bully sequel

By Tom Bramwell Published 5 January, 2007

Reckons sales were a bit crap.

Analyst Michael Pachter has said that he doubts Rockstar will bother doing a sequel to Canis Canem Edit, despite all the critical acclaim.

Speaking to GamePolitics, Pachter, who represents Wedbush Morgan Securities, painted a picture of a game that will sell just about enough units worldwide to break even - the suggestion being that Rockstar and parent company Take-Two won't be happy with the results.

Pachter said that following US sales which "trailed off pretty dramatically in November," he'd estimate around 800,000 units will be sold during the game's life-time. "My guess is that the company did no better than to break even. I would NOT expect a sequel," he said.

Sales in the UK have certainly tailed off a bit, but the game now enjoys a top ten position thanks to heavy discounting - and tops the budget-priced Chart-Track rundown.

However, despite surprisingly widespread controversy, Canis Canem Edit did tremendously well critically. Rockstar hasn't announced a sequel though, and last night US representatives declined to comment on Pachter's speculation.

(Edit: chart data correction. Will stay after class and do lines.)

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (28) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • penhalion #1 5 years ago

    And there it is. Some subjects just don't find favour with the masses. Maybe courting controversy will take a back seat to creating good games at rockstar now!

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #2 5 years ago

    I'd bet at least 50p it was mostly down to the abysmally crap new name.

  • PuffyPipe #3 5 years ago

    Well it was so easy that you just finished it then lend it to a mate as there was nothing to go back to (doing gardening!?!?) so sales were affected that way.

  • strobrod #4 5 years ago

    That's a pity, though I can't say I'm all that shocked. From what I've seen the game seems to have had shockingly low exposure in most stores, at least here in Sweden, and not much of a marketing campaign behind it either. Seems to me Rockstar where a bit too certain of the "scandals" providing all the marketing they would need.

  • Harpe #5 5 years ago

    penhalion said:

    Maybe courting controversy will take a back seat to creating good games at rockstar now!


    Did you miss the part where it was a good game _despite_ the controversy?
    That's what "Canis Canem Edit did tremendously well critically" means and sums up.

  • Blerk #6 5 years ago

    Shoulda called it "Grand Theft Auto: Kids".

  • skillian #7 5 years ago

    It's a game about schoolkids, with a rating too high for schoolkids to play. I'm not really surprised it didn't do big sales.

  • Tomo #8 5 years ago

    Not sure I would bother with a sequel, personally. I found CCE to be a little bit dull. Gimme an Uzi and a prostitute anyday tho.

  • kangarootoo #9 5 years ago

    "and not much of a marketing campaign behind it either. Seems to me Rockstar where a bit too certain of the "scandals" providing all the marketing they would need."

    I think that is the truth of it. It had some TV ads in the UK as I recall, but it still wasn't really pushed that hard. And the title did make it sound like a Latin tutor to the casual shopper.

  • penhalion #10 5 years ago

    @Harpe

    It was short game and not all that good. I have it and played it through to the end. Some nice ideas were in there but, nothing outstanding. In short it was a mediocre game that rockstar hoped to sell bucket loads of simply by having a controvercial title and subject matter.

    In america the game is still called Bully so the title had nothing to do with the poor sales there. People simply don't see it as a good subject for a game pure and simple.

    In short I stand by my original comments

  • cynic #11 5 years ago

    "It was short game and not all that good. I have it and played it through to the end. Some nice ideas were in there but, nothing outstanding. In short it was a mediocre game that rockstar hoped to sell bucket loads of simply by having a controvercial title and subject matter.

    In america the game is still called Bully so the title had nothing to do with the poor sales there. People simply don't see it as a good subject for a game pure and simple.

    In short I stand by my original comments"


    ....... Oh, so you asked Rockstar what there motivation was then?

    I thought it was a good game, hell even my missus is enjoying romping through it and would rather play that than watch TV, and she isn't much of a gamer.

  • SeanLB #12 5 years ago

    I think the main problem is that it was a PS2 title, released near to Chrimbo. Shops straight away put it into sales to try and shift it, but of course parents were busy looking at the next generation with the Wii and 360, and also quite a few the DS.

  • arty #13 5 years ago

    It was a brilliant game, shame more of the GTA generation didn't buy it.

  • Blerk #14 5 years ago

    I think the main problem is that it was a PS2 title, released near to Chrimbo. Shops straight away put it into sales to try and shift it, but of course parents were busy looking at the next generation with the Wii and 360, and also quite a few the DS.

    Yeah, who's still buying PS2 games apart from the huge PS2 user base and all those people who made it the top-selling console over Christmas, eh?

  • Harpe #15 5 years ago

    @ penhalion

    My apologies, your asumption of Rockstar's priorities are of course your own to which you are naturally entitled. I jumped on your implication that the game wasn't 'good' when anyone can count the 57 media outlets that scored it over 80% on metacritic (including a 9/10 from this site), which in a non-personal tastes sense is patently wrong.

    But on re-reading your first post I realise you didn't actually say they didn't make good games, only that that was secondary to courting controversy.

    Apologies for length, etc.

  • penhalion #16 5 years ago

    @Harpe

    Thanks. It's rare anyone on these boards actually reads what people say anymore. I quite liked the game and thought that if they had simply put it out as grand theft in a school setting, then it would have sold loads.

    Calling a game Bully while it clearly wasn't about bullying at all. Was definitely designed for the sole purpose of winding people like Jack Thompson up. In this instance it backfired and hit rockstar where it needed to hit them i.e. in the wallet. This is the only way they will wake up and start to get back to creating great games like GTA 3 where the game and inovation are more important than the headlines in the tabloid press.

  • SeanLB #17 5 years ago

    Blerk while I'm not doubting that, what I was saying is it was never going to hit the heights of GTA's sales due to what I said. Is 800,000 even that bad, I wouldn't say so.

  • kangarootoo #18 5 years ago

    Its worth bearing in mind that the analyst referred to "breaking even", so we are not just concerned with sales figures (800k isn't bad) but also productions costs (which may have been comparatively high, I don't know).

  • Veldaban #19 5 years ago

    Well, we know that Namco recently stated they need to sell 500,000 copies of every next-gen game to make a profit. I would assume that they have a considerably higher budget than a "mere" PS2 game, what with the increased asset creation costs. So it seems strange to me that 800,000 is barely considered break even.
    And anyway, considering that a lot of games don't even break even I would say that Bully sold very well, just not massively like GTA.

  • in5ane #20 5 years ago

    I bought it, but later on, and only when it was £12 a play.com. Still haven't been bothered to play it.

    To be honest, Rockstar didn't go over the top promoting it. Apart from the controversy and one very crappy advert I saw on TV once, I wouldn't have known about the game.

  • urban #21 5 years ago

    i think thats exactly why they'll do one, critical acclaim on the first...mass sales on the second..

    so frack off analyst

  • mkreku #22 5 years ago

    Not only was the game great, the music in Bully is probably the best music I've ever heard in a video game. I would probably buy the soundtrack if it was available somewhere close.

    I'd love a sequel.. but in University this time, with more adult content (not porn, you pervs, just more.. adult).

  • Freek #23 5 years ago

    The controversy did not come from Rockstar. It's a game about a 15 year old, rated 15. Nothing special.
    The whole atmosphere is "highschool comedy" movie, the controversy was solely in the eye of the trigger happy moral brigade.
    Bullying was a theme in the game, so the name was entirely logical, it's just that you took on the bullies and weren't exactly a sweetheart yourself, but it was not anywhere remotly as insane as some people thought it was.
    Edited by 1 at 05/01/07 @ 19:16

  • marc_si #24 5 years ago

    One of the best games of last year imho - both myself and my son (ok I'm a bad parent* so leave me alone ;) ) really enjoyed it ...

    *I did play the game first and actually thought it rather tame and educational in places compared to a lot of other 'non-controversial' stuff ...

  • BigJonno #25 5 years ago

    Just finished it a couple of days ago. Great game, though it does end rather abruptly and, compared to GTA, there doesn't seem to be the same fun to be had just messing around with everything once you've finished.

    I also thought the rating was spot on. It may not have blood, but the combat was pretty bone-crunching and I winced a few times. Child on child violence still shocks me somewhat and I work in a school.

  • tenma #26 5 years ago

    Maybe courting controversy will take a back seat to creating good games at rockstar now!

    Bully is a good game. If anything, your statement is ironic because Rockstar's game that *do* tend to have controversial themes behind it *cough*GTA*cough* are the ones that sell. R* have made plenty of non-controversial games: Table Tennis, Smuggler's Run, Thrasher, Midnight Club, and even content-wise, Bully. I don't buy the idea that Rockstar tends to focus more on controversy than on making good games - they'd rather just make games that vaguely deal with real life than making the next Final Fantasy.
    Edited by 1 at 06/01/07 @ 23:03

  • BigJonno #27 5 years ago

    Thankfully you can change your haircut in Bully, something I did as soon as the opportunity presented itself. Of course this doesn't do anything about that incredibly punchable face.

  • YourMessageHere #28 5 years ago

    My student union bar had huge advert stickers for CCE literally covering the tops of every table in the bar. Don't tell me they didn't market it enough.