Acti wants RB compensation

By Tom Bramwell Published 20 December, 2007

For PS3 guitar compatibility.

Activision has made it clear that the reason it is blocking the release of a patch to let PS3 owners play Harmonix/MTV's Rock Band with the Guitar Hero III controller it created is because it wants compensation.

"Unfortunately for Rock Band users, Harmonix has been unwilling to discuss an agreement that will allow us to provide that option in a manner that maintains the high standards people have come to expect from Activision," spokesperson Maryanne Lataif told The Boston Globe. "We believe we should be compensated for the use of our technology."

For its part, a Harmonix spokesperson said that it was "really and truly not looking at this from the financial standpoint". "We are looking at this from the consumer standpoint," spokesperson Spencer Saltonstall explained.

Whatever the motives of those involved, the result is that people who bought Rock Band for the PS3 cannot use their existing Guitar Hero III controllers and will not be able to do so until the issue is resolved. This has angered a number of people who have spent lots of money on the basis of promises of support and subsequently the promise of a patch. We spoke to Rock Band PS3 owner Tom Bramwell, who bought the package on import and has also bought a PS3 Guitar Hero III controller, to see what he thinks.

"I think they're all sods," Bramwell explained, handsomely. "The irony is that I only bought the Guitar Hero III PS3 controller so I could use it with Rock Band instead of the Fender Stratocaster bundled with the Harmonix game itself. In other words, I extended my custom with Activision in order to do a thing it is now prohibiting out of a desire to prevent itself losing my custom."

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (62) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • spekkeh #1 4 years ago

    quoting yourself ftw!

  • spekkeh #2 4 years ago

    "quoting yourself ftw!"

    QFT

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #3 4 years ago

    I feel like a loser.

  • Mike1980 #4 4 years ago

    seems activision-blizz-whatever want some cash from the success from rock band

  • Whizzo #5 4 years ago

    Activision doesn't want those extra GH peripheral sales for some reason. Is it because they're stupid?

  • Psychotext #6 4 years ago

    They want compensation... THE F*CK*NG CUSTOMER ALREADY PAID FOR YOUR PRODUCT YOU CNUTS. What they do with it from that point on is their business, not yours.

  • lambtron #7 4 years ago

    This makes no sense - are the GH3 controllers sold at a loss or something? I can hardly believe that would be the case.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #8 4 years ago

    "Activision doesn't want those extra GH peripheral sales for some reason. Is it because they're stupid?"

    On second thoughts, I expect what they would say (if their entire PR department hadn't vanished this week, for some reason) is that my comment above is wrong - that the desire for compensation and protecting the custom of existing fans are separate things. So perhaps my sarcasm is unfair. For some reason I still don't particularly feel like deleting it.

  • Nobuo #9 4 years ago

    @spekkeh

    lol

  • Nobuo #10 4 years ago

    I'm probably being really dense... but exactly what 'loss' do they want compensating for? Aren't they gaining custom if their product has more applications?

    *Feels like he's missing something*

  • McBradders #11 4 years ago

    Activision openly admitting they are greedy and silly in the same breath.

    AWESOME!

  • NewYork #12 4 years ago

    This Tom Bramwell sounds like a smart and ruggedly handsome chap.

  • Moz #13 4 years ago

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Activition are COCKS!!!!

  • Triggerhappytel #14 4 years ago

    No that I can really blame their position from a business standpoint (why do anything to support Rock Band unless they get something back from it?), but Activision are being wankers over this.

  • bushwod #15 4 years ago

    Well you can't really blame Activision for taking a step against a direct competitor using their hardware, frankly I'd be surprised if they didn't (still makes them arseholes mind).

    Harmonix should of made a deal with them to use the hardware instead of making promises it could not keep.

  • L42yB #16 4 years ago

    Maybe they think this will increase GHIII sales or sumthing...?

    They're completely wrong, but maybe that is what they are thinking...

    EDIT: Software sales, that is.
    Edited by 1 at 20/12/07 @ 17:11

  • L42yB #17 4 years ago

    "you can't really blame Activision for taking a step against a direct competitor using their hardware"

    But they make money from people buying their hardware! That is their compensation... they even hurt their competition because if people buy the GH3 controller then they won't need the RB one. They are just trying to make Harmonix look bad, and all they're achieving is making themselves look bad...

  • tonynibbles #18 4 years ago

    Blizzard vision.

    Guitar Hero III is just not good enough to compete with Rock Band, face it.

  • mendo #19 4 years ago

    I agree with Activision: let's face it, almost everyone has now a Guitar Hero guitar but who has (in the USA of course) the Rock Band one?
    Why a publisher should allow its hardware to work on a direct competitor software? It's plain stupid: you're helping another publisher in selling more copies of their game. A game that does exactly what your does. And you're also giving away the huge competitor advantage that you have: millions of compatible guitars already in millions of houses.
    No way I would give away for free such critical advantage (to be honest, I wouldn't give it away at all. They would have to give me a LOT of money, because you'll have to compensate for future income too).

  • bushwod #20 4 years ago

    @L42yB

    I'm guessing their intention is to keep people playing GH by making rock band seem like an expensive choice (as you will have to buy the hardware again).

    Also, they probably WILL exceed in making Harmonix looks bad because the vast majority of player won't be reading the threads and won't know the history behind all this.

    They've chosen to try and defend their corner rather than risk the benefits of sharing the market (maybe because they think RB is superior).

  • chicknstu #21 4 years ago

    If you allow people to use your hardware in other games... then there are more games that your hardware is compatible with.....

    If there are more games that your hardware is compatible with, then more people will want your hardware....

    In exchange for your hardware, people will give you money....

    Money can be exchanged for goods and services. It's green, and is made from trees....

  • JonFE #22 4 years ago

    Haven't we been through this already?

    I thought that the GH3 guitar uses a custom dongle to connect wirelessly to the PS3 (instead of the native BlueTooth), isn't that correct? If it does, doesn't that mean that it uses a proprietary interface, which is developed / owned by Activision, instead of a standard API (as it happens to the x360)? If the answers to both questions is "yes" how can it be wrong to ask for some license agreement (compensation, if you will) before you share your technology?

    If Harmonix look at it from the consumer standpoint, why don't they hand over the cash? More over, does the Rock Band guitar work on PS3 GH3?
    Edited by 1 at 20/12/07 @ 17:36

  • bushwod #23 4 years ago

    @mendo

    Exactly (and much better put than my post)

  • Feanor #24 4 years ago

    "Guitar Hero III is just not good enough to compete with Rock Band, face it."

    Sales suggest otherwise.

  • lucasmax #25 4 years ago

    Its plain to me that this is Sonys fault and Sonys alone.

    You just can't expect people to play nice in our society.

  • Kiigan #26 4 years ago

    Konami should be asking for compensation from Activision and EA

  • McLovin85 #27 4 years ago

    once again PS3 users get shafted. go suck my balls Activision (big hairy ones).

  • Eighthours #28 4 years ago

    A short opinion article about the spat: [link url=http://pressstartblog.wordpress.com/2007/1 2/20/guitar-villain/#more-47
    ]http://pr essstartblog.wordpress.com/2007...[/link]

    I'm firmly on the side of Harmonix here.

  • erp #29 4 years ago

    I want compensation for reading this thread.

  • Beano #30 4 years ago

    Greedy bastards... I've bought my last Guitar Hero game if that's the way they want it. Rock Band is the futire anyway...

  • NewYork #31 4 years ago

    (why do anything to support Rock Band unless they get something back from it?)

    Guitar sales? ;)

  • mechamonkey #32 4 years ago

    No win no fee.

    Damnned compensation culture.

  • ilmaestro #33 4 years ago

    Haha, great article.

  • dadrester #34 4 years ago

    imagine konami demanding money from all the light gun game developers?! asshats.

  • PinkSpider #35 4 years ago

    It's a spiritual successor surely. In the same way as Supreme Commander was. Harmonix do music games best and have freezepop.

    =

    Win.

  • bdc #36 4 years ago

    Activision can go and fuck themselves to be honest.

  • smelly #37 4 years ago

    "They want compensation... THE F*CK*NG CUSTOMER ALREADY PAID FOR YOUR PRODUCT YOU CNUTS. What they do with it from that point on is their business, not yours."


    WOOOAH THERE!

    lets think fucking sensibly for a minute.

    Lets think about this in logical terms. Lets say microsoft could make halo 3 work on the ps3. Would they just release a patch to let ps3 users play it and get the extra sales even if it meant giving something away to the competition? No. Because that'd be an insane business decision.

    Why would you give your competition a part of your product - thus boosting their sales without any compensation?

    If you have GH3 and could use the guitar in rock band - you're in effect saying to every GH3 owner "hey - why not go out and buy rock band as well - you might like it more and spend more money on downloading their tracks instead of ours"

    If that's any of your's idea of "good business" then remind me never to go into business with you - as you'll be bankrupt within days.

    Sheesh. Think about it people!

  • Lamb #38 4 years ago

    No Smelly, Pyschotext is right! While your logic will work on an Iraqi Oil field, Activision needs to remember their roots and where they make their money from or they can rapidly become like Atari, bankrupt!

    Sony needs to get their house in order.

    Just to reiterate...

    They want compensation... THE F*CK*NG CUSTOMER ALREADY PAID FOR YOUR PRODUCT YOU CNUTS. What they do with it from that point on is their business, not yours.

  • Machiavellian #39 4 years ago

    @Lamb

    You really are missing the point. Yes, the customer has purchased the device but just like any device you purchase, you are only entitled to what the device main purpose. Supporting another competitor who sells would definitely cut into your sells seems pretty silly. Yes, Activision can sell more GH Guitars but that’s not the purpose or the business model. I am sure Activision and Harm get way more profit off of selling the GH game not to mention the downloadable content. Giving Rock Band the key to the city for free means they have just given their competitor an advantage for free. This would be like Sony creating a patch that would allow the 360 to play PS2 games. Yes, Sony would gain some profit from the sell of those PS2 games even if they were bought to play on the 360 but that would mean their would be no incentive to purchase a PS3 or PS2.

    As someone has said, there are millions of GH Guitars out there. Harm developed and tested the wireless method they created for the PS3 system. Why should they not get compensated for the work they put into their product. Do you think sells of Rock Band mean more sells for GH with this patch. If anything, this will decrease sells of the GH game.

  • Sl1pstream #40 4 years ago

    But that's the point. They are being compensated for their work through GHIII sales. The patch is made by Harmonix, for their game. There's no extra work for Activision in there.

    They're being dicks because they can. They've got a ton of franchises so they're an important publisher. Sony knows this so they're giving them what they want, even if it's a dick move.

  • Daikon #41 4 years ago

    Who cares about guitars anyway?
    What I'd like to know is if my Taiko no Tatsujin drums will work with Rock Band ;)

  • JonFE #42 4 years ago

    "But Harmonix has already created a patch so that the Guitar Hero guitar will work with Rock Band. They are just not allowed to release it."

    disc, they *may* have developed this patch based on Activision's proprietary API code, which Harmonix doesn't actually own or license. Even if they have already contributed to this code in the first place (when they were in charge of GH), it *might* not be theirs to use for free anymore...

  • Freek #43 4 years ago

    "We believe we should be compensated for the use of our technology."

    You mean besides people buying GH3 and the guitar??

  • mazzl #44 4 years ago

    GH3 and the guitar are for .. yes.. you guessed right GH3 ....
    activision never promissed the guitar would work with rockband... harmonix promised this... he microsoft, sony sead you're controller would work on the ps3, why doesn't it?

    it's a stupid question isn't it.... the blame is not with GH, they would be mad to make the guitars compatible. loos all that money from dc, it's said a lot of times in this thread. from a consumer standpoint it would be nice. for activision it's anightmare.

  • jawolf #45 4 years ago

    Hopefully they get a version of Rock Band for the Wii (if one is to come) and they allow people to use the bongo's from Donkey Konga! That would be ace...

  • AbyssUK #46 4 years ago

    Real guitars work just fine!

  • bushwod #47 4 years ago

    Can't believe the sheer amount of idiots in this thread who have no understanding of business.

    Activision and Harmonix are NOT your friends. They're business, they want your money. End of.

  • Kury #48 4 years ago

    Shame Sony has no spine. It's perfectly understandable (although also fairly stupid) that Activision don't patch GH3 to work with the RB strat. It weakens the value of the RB strat while not really affecting your own product.

    But getting Sony to stop a patch for another game? It comes at no cost to them, it increases the value of their own product and not being dicks would probably have been a better PR move than the current situation.

    I'll go and buy GH3 the instant I can use the Les Paul in Rock Band. And I may even buy GH4 some day if I don't get the feeling I'm being scammed. As it is now, I'll wait until the distant day when decent supply of Rock Band guitars will allow me to buy a standalone one. At which point the GH franchise is dead to me, because, seriously, aside from the hardware issues, Rock Band is all I ever wanted in a rhythm game.

    There is no business sense here. The only reason might be to discourage people from buying Rock Band in the first place. If you can't compete on the quality of your product try to badmouth the competition.

  • Tricky #49 4 years ago

    Yes, but the problem that all the Activision apologists are ignoring is the fact that for the X360 version this issue doesn't exist, which does make a complete mockery of Activision's stance here. I mean if you're already able to use X360 GHIII guitars in RB then why not allow it for the PS3 ones?

    Plus, trust me, there's still a very decent profit margin to be made on peripherals and with the number of people not liking the RB guitars, Activision could very easily offer their controller as an alternative and make a nice bit of money there.

  • Kyle #50 4 years ago

    "In other words, I extended my custom with Activision in order to do a thing it is now prohibiting out of a desire to prevent itself losing my custom."

    Yes but why would they settle with the extra sales when they could have the extra sales and fee's from Harmonix?

    I mean, c'mon Tom, an $18 billion merger with Blizzard don't pay the rent you know!

  • rprince #51 4 years ago

    What technology? Surely if it's a PlayStation compatible peripheral, then any developer should have access to it? The Gran Turismo Logitech force feedback steering wheel worked with other driving games. The Sony EyeToy works with other games.

    Really, Harmonix should have hidden compatibility in there, not advertised it, and then when people found out, it would be useable and unrescindable. Activision would have moaned, but at least the customers could have used it!

  • smelly #52 4 years ago

    *sigh*


    There's a lot of stupid people on this forum isnt there?

  • Lamb #53 4 years ago

    @ Machiavellian

    Respectfully I can argue from your perspective aswell but you are missing the big picture with Microsoft and the 360 having their house in order and not being dictated to by Activision/MTV Viacom over petty, over-reaching business plans.

    Also for those arguing the business standpoint, consumer goodwill can be an immeasurable asset of any business plan.

    A peripheral for a console should be universal considering the button applications.

    @ Smelly

    I really think you should delete your last comment in this thread.

  • Diomedes #54 4 years ago

    Greedy bastards ...

  • mamoulian #55 4 years ago

    I wholeheartedly agree with your 'Mr. Bramwell', although I use a much stronger word to describe Activision, having also imported RB myself. :-)

    I personally would have bought GH3 on the PS3 last week if the patch had been allowed out. That's one more sale for Activision that they are definitely not getting.


    @JonFE: Harmonix do not need to talk to the 'proprietary wireless interface' between the dongle and the guitar; they just need to talk to the USB output from said dongle. Which I suspect is easily 'sniffable' by plugging a GH3 guitar into a devkit and pressing buttons.
    Yes that output is 'proprietary' and the sniffing is 'reverse engineering', which is why Activision have been able to block the patch. But demanding a licence fee for it when it is going to chalk up more sales for them and good for the consumer is plain mean.

    @mendo, smelly: I disagree. How many people are NOT buying RB just because they can't have a bassist yet?
    Many people, myself included, have NOT bought GH3 because of this compatibility issue. If it worked I'd buy it now.
    And GH3 does not have compatible guitars already in houses... PS3 GH3 doesn't work with the old PS2 guitars.
    They're not giving away an advantage. They're getting themselves some sales. In fact HMX are doing themselves out of sales cos people won't all clamour to buy the RB strats when they come out on their own.

    @bushwod: I have been making sure that everyone who comes round to play Rock Band and is disappointed knows that it is Activision's fault, everyone now uses rude words to describe them. Especially the mate who owns GH3 and offered to bring his guitar and I told him not to bother.

    @farticusmaximus: None of the controllers use the native Bluetooth on the PS3, both of them have USB dongles and implement their own wireless gubbins. It's the USB -> game API which is fixed by MS and open by Sony.
    The problem does exist on the PS2. They weren't happy with third-party clones of the GH1 guitar so GH2 uses an adjusted protocol which works with the official guitars but not clones. Hence PS2->USB adapters work fine on the PS3 for GH1 but only partially on GH2.

    @Machiavellian: You can't buy standalone GH3 guitars, so you'd have to buy the game. And there aren't millions of existing guitars for GH3 cos the PS2 ones aren't compatible.
    They will get compensated by the sale of game + guitar. Regardless of whether someone owns RB too.

    @chicknstu: good quote :-)

  • smelly #56 4 years ago

    @mamoulian:

    How many ps3 owners havent bought halo 3 because it doesnt work on their platform?

    If microsoft released a patch to make halo 3 work on the ps3 - that'd mean more sales for microsft/bungie wouldnt it?

    So why dont they do that?

    Sheesh - microsoft are evil arent they?

    *sigh* - dumbass.

  • mamoulian #57 4 years ago

    @smelly:
    There's quite a difference between the 'XBox' *platform* which relies on exclusive titles to give it the edge and the 'Guitar Hero 3' *game*. It's not like you're only going to buy GH3-guitar-compatible games in future just because you already spent $100 on the bundle. A console is a much bigger investment and can be used for something else as soon as you're bored of Halo3.

    I've already commented that people are buying RB regardless of Activision's non-compatibility, and I don't think that many more people would suddenly decide to shell out $170+ on the bundle if their existing GH3 guitar became compatible.
    (i.e. I disagree with your earlier comment on the previous page)

    Indeed Microsoft would tie in less people to XBox if Halo3 were available on the PS3, but Activision are unlikely to 'tie people in' to GH3 regardless of whether their controller works on other people's games or not.

  • Trikk #58 4 years ago

    I'm sure Harmonix would love to spend time with QA and other things needed for official patches without getting paid or having their name on the product.

    Activision are bastards for not agreeing to Harmonix' terms.

  • kangarootoo #59 4 years ago

    As I understand it, Activision spent money developing a technology for a game that would make them profit. Another company then wants to use the technology that Activision own to make profit for themselves. Activision are understandably not delighted and want a cut of the rivals profit for themselves, which given it is based on a tech Acti own, seems reasonable.

    Can someone point out to me which part of the above is wrong. I mean, the way everyone is talking, I guess a core part of it must be wrong. Right? RIGHT?


    In this particular case Activision are being completely honest and open about what is going on here. Its simply a matter of licensing tech that you don't own. Everyone else accepts that and gets on with business, so I'm not sure what possessed Harmonix in this particular instance to think it doesn't apply to them.


    It seems to me that Activision's mistake was to say openly exactly what is going on here and expect gamers to deal with the truth of business in an adult manner. Well I guess they f*cked up in that assumption didn't they.

    On the other hand, this whole "we are really and truly not looking at this from the financial standpoint. We are looking at this from the consumer standpoint" shows Harmonix understand the minds of their customers rather better. Its like they are thinking "look, gamers on the whole don't know the first thing about business. If we play our cards right they will just call Activision greedy for expecting to make a profit and we'll look like the good guys, even though its all about the benjamins for us too".


    Some people grasp reality with both hands. Everyone else apparently comes here and starts talking nonsense.

    Sorry if thats harsh, but for ffs people.
    Edited by 1 at 30/12/07 @ 17:21

  • mamoulian #60 4 years ago

    @kangarootoo:

    >As I understand it, Activision spent money developing a technology for a game
    >that would make them profit. Another company then wants to use the technology
    >that Activision own to make profit for themselves.

    I disagree - Harmonix are not going to make any profit out of it at all.

    People are buying RB regardless of the current lack of bass guitar. I do not believe that more people would suddenly buy it just because their GH3 guitar became compatible.

  • kangarootoo #61 4 years ago

    "I disagree - Harmonix are not going to make any profit out of it at all"

    Of course they are going to make profit. Anything that makes their game easier or cheaper to use is going to increase sales by some degree.

    "I do not believe that more people would suddenly buy it just because their GH3 guitar became compatible."

    That statement is just a diversion. I never suggested people would "suddenly" do anything (I overuse the term strawman, but it applies here yet again, wiki it to see what I am on about). I'm just saying that Harmonix would benefit financially if they released this patch. Otherwise, frankly, they wouldn't bother would they.

  • JonFE #62 4 years ago

    @mamoulian
    By your own admission "...that output is 'proprietary' and the sniffing is 'reverse engineering'..." which is the exact reason why Activison wants a license for it. The fact that it's so easy to do, does not make it any less wrong. You may not like it, you have every right to think it's bad for you (the customer), but from a business point of view, as others have said, one way to strengthen your product is by weakening your rival product. Moreover, we really don't know which part of the GH3 bundle (the software or the hardware) generates more profit, so your "...is going to chalk up more sales for them..." comment seems debatable.

    Harmonix aren't a charity. They know that giving potential PS3 Rock Band customers free access to the thousands GH3 already installed, will improve RB software sales, especially when the inevitable standalone disc hits the selves. If they actually care about the customer as they say, they should come to a license agreement, so all involved parties are satisfied.

    PS. I know this is a very late response, but I just noticed your reply. I hope you are still following this, since you replied to kangarootoo's very reasonable comment as well...
    Edited by 1 at 02/01/08 @ 07:15