The History of Zelda - Part 1 Comments by Keza MacDonald
A link to the past.
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SuaimhneasDe
28/11/06 @ 16:24
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Since Mario 64 translated well to the DS - I wonder is there any chance of getting Ocarina of Time on the DS.. Is it technically possible..? Would be a superb game to play again on the handheld..
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most recently on 28/11/06 @ 16:24
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@pretence: Honestly? I liked that it was shorter, as I tend to have a pretty low boredom threshold with games. 20 hours is usually my limit. It was like all the fun was condensed. It's the only Zelda game I've ever played twice consecutively.
I think the art style really did contribute, too. But I'd better shut up about it, or I'll just be repeating myself in tomorrow's article! |
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"IMO they didn't delay it to spend more time developing, they delayed it simply as to have a must have Wii launch title."
IMO I think they did spend time on adding features to the game and refining it, in addition to tailoring the control on the Wii version but we'll never really know definitively. I've still not played LTTP properly; I've got it on GBA and every time I end up stopping part way through because I don't have the time; I then can't really continue from where I left off due to the long gap and need to restart again! I really want to try Majora's Mask at some point, OOT is the best imho.
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most recently on 28/11/06 @ 16:41
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The collectors discs are actually two...
One launched with Mario Kart Double Dash And one with The Wind Waker The former has - The Legend Of Zelda - Zelda II - The Ocarina Of Time - Majora's Mask - A 15 minute timed Wind Waker Demo The latter has: - Ocarina Of Time - Ocarina Of Time: Master Quest - Various videos of other games (F-zero GX and stuff) WHOOPS!!! I used my super powers to make sure i had all of them |
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Honestly? I liked that it was shorter, as I tend to have a pretty low boredom threshold with games. 20 hours is usually my limit. It was like all the fun was condensed. It's the only Zelda game I've ever played twice consecutively.
I would argue the opposite. WW was the most padded out of all the Zelda games, with a massive game world that was largely bland and 75% blue. OoT and especially MM had a much tighter game world and design. And the less said about that Tri-Force piece collecting at the end, the better. K |
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Muddtallica
28/11/06 @ 17:31
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AdamOfEternia: If the Wii version of TP is better than the GC version, then I personally have no problem with the decision to develop it jointly for Wii. I was planning to get a Wii anyway, as are huge numbers of Nintendo fans, so it's no skin off my nose, assuming the Wii build takes advantage of the hardware to improve the game. Heck, even if not, then it's not like they canned the GC version. It's being released one single week later, for goodness sake. Who cares? And I know that GC owners have had to wait longer because of the development of the Wii build, but I don't believe for a second that during the time spent on the Wii build the GCN build was just sat there gathering dust. In my experience, delays on Zelda games are a good thing. Wind Waker came out on time, and that was blatantly unfinished...
Zomoniac: well, you are an odd one! Leaving aside the fact that the plot developments in the first few hours are small fry compared to the later stuff (did you get to the Adult Link bit, ie the main bulk of the game?), it amazes me that OoT's size, scope, graphics etc. didn't impress you if you got it at the time. Back then, there WAS nothing like it, and that went for the controls and mechanics; it's archaic now because OoT basically invented it. Still, I love WW too, and if it was the cartoon graphics that you loved most, I guess OoT isn't for you. The mechanics of that feel a bit slow compared to the refined WW engine, too...maybe you could wait for the DS one to come out. That reuses WW's style, though obviously it doesn't look as nice... Keza: I'm with Kay on this one, it's not about the length per se, it's how well that time is used. I'm one of the "weird ones" who loved OoT AND TWW (and MM, for that mattter), but TWW, despite being shorter, is one the one that felt padded and stretched out to me... |
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It's interesting that the 'Cube version of TP is also coming out just after the Wii version. Personally, after reading reviews and trying to avoid spoilers, the Wii version does sound better. Several reviews have commented that once you're used to the Wiimote way of playing, using the 'Cube controller doesn't seem as good. Also, the Wii version is widescreen, whereas the 'Cube version is standard 4:3. That's a big plus for me personally.
I'm getting the Wii version and my mate is getting the 'Cube one from DVDBoxOffice. So it will be interesting to see both. |
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OoT was a great game back then (even though the graphics weren't exactly mind blowing). However I recently tried to play the game again and found that it aged badly. Perhaps a new coat of paint would revive it.
2D Zeldas fortunately doesn't suffer the same fate. Personally I adore Wind Waker's style of graphic much more than the "realistic" Zelda, which explains why I am looking forward to PH more than TP. |
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Muddtallica: Nope, never got that far in, but got quite a bit far in on Minish Cap and LTTP, and finished WW, so feel moderately confident in saying that story is competely irrelevant in a Zelda game, as none of them have one.
As for graphics, what was so special? If anything the graphics harmed the size and scope of the game, since the draw distance was about four feet it kinda made everything feel very cloustraphobic (sp?). I didn't feel it was better than other N64/PS games of the period (SM64, GoldenEye, Tekken 3, MGS and GT all came out before it and looked better to me). What controls did it invent? Aside from having a combat system no better than either MGS or the Legacy of Kain games and bog-standard movement control, there was nothing to distinguish it. Action scenes were mostly few and far between, so most of the time was spent exploring the world, which was fine in WW, but OoT was just so dull, uninspiring locations repeating themselves again and again. A game needs to do something new to grab me. I already did the fire/water/ice/country-in-3D in SM64. OoT just repeated this but with a worse draw-distance and level design. Playing WW made doing these same locations for the millionth time feel fresh and alive. And this is where my confusion lies. I don't understand what I'm missing, as so many people whose opinions I usually agree with about games talk of OoT like it was some kind of second coming of the Christ, how it reinvented games. But I played it back when it was supposed to have re-invented games and there was precisely nothing in it of merit that I hadn't seen done as well or better elsewhere. |
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Sky Blue Sam
28/11/06 @ 18:51
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For me, LttP is the best of The Zeldas. It has the perfect balance of difficulty, story, etc.
It's also the only one I've ever completed (for shame!) The original NES Zelda, even now, I can't play properly. I couldn't do it when I was 6, and I can't do it now I'm 20. It's insanely difficult. |
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I'm a big Zelda fan, and I've been since, pffff too long. I've actually loved them all (not played the ones on the handhelds though). I think it's difficult to appreciate how good the first zelda games were on the NES today but I played them at the time (in France the NES was much more successful than in the UK and I got mine when I was 11) and loved them. The first one was mind-blowing, such a big world to explore and when you complete the first quest you can restart with all the dungeons' locations changed. Don't have as many memories of the second one but I remember liking it as well, didn't complete it several times as I did with the first one though. LttP is the best for me, probably because I was about 15 when I got it and had loads of time to really appreciate it. Bought a 2nd hand N64 a few years back to play OOT and Majora's mask and OOT was great but I didn't get into MM as much. I think with Zelda games you need to take the time to explore the game in full and having new consoles around it was difficult to enjoy this (quite ugly in my view) game as much. I loved the graphical style of WW and some of the dungeons were great but it was a disappointment for me, the sailing was a bore, the end felt rushed and it lacked real innovations (apart from the sailing). I really hope that TP is a return to form and it might convince me to buy the Wii in a few months (let's see how developers exploit the console's control system before).
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"The 3D GTAs may have heralded sandbox gaming but they are still flawed, whereas in something like OoT everything seems to work perfectly."
That's because in Zelda the game world is created around the gameplay places. In GTA, the gameplay places are put in the gameworld. So in Zelda there's a much greater economy of use of the play area whereas GTA, esp. as the 3d series went on, just increased it's surface but didn't use it. I can't help but compare them to comics, that Zelda is like a british comic, with all it's content crammed in a few pages that neccesitate close redeang and rereading whereas GTA is like a japanese manga where the story is very decompressed and doesn't cover pages but volumes. |
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I always thought I was a games fan. I can't be I have never enjoyed a Zelda game sorry
Fuck It Zelda Sucks, FF Sucks, MGS Sucks Actually I will clarify this in my pissed state. It is not that these games suck, the same as anything they recieve a lot of hype and I start playing can't get into them and think meh. I am a heathen. But on the plus side pro evo over fifa
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most recently on 28/11/06 @ 20:50
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@prawnking.
I agree with you on mgs. FF I can understand why you think that way (i dont though). But zelda? Just wondering how many/which ones you've played? What dont you like about them? etc? For example I dont like oblivion, i've been very vocal about that. But i've always posted why - so people can understand why i dont like it (to me it's just all pretty no game). So I'm definately interested in why you dont like it? Too hard? Too easy? You prefer "no brainer" games (nothing wrong with that btw)? Maybe windwaker was "too kiddy" for you? etc etc. |
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>I'm playing Ocarina of Time right now
Im drawn between which one i like more. At moment TP is my favourite because i'm still playing it. Dunno how i'll feel when i've completed it though and can compare them both. For example, even though I like MOST of it, i dont like the early wolf levels. And some of the more advanced fighting moves later in game are hard to pull off (but that's been case in every zelda going way back to snes). |
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Psychotext
28/11/06 @ 23:20
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I can't speak for prawnking but the reason I don't like the Zelda games is that I never really seem to get into them. I've tried real hard too but after a few hours of playing I just seem to lose interest. I don't find myself caring about the characters or their stories which is probably why I don't continue playing. Like I said in my earlier post... I really want to like them but I suppose it just comes down to people liking different things.
It's funny really, cos I've finished some truly awful games to get to the end of the story! |
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The Legend of Zelda's central, overriding theme, if it has one, is childhood. These games are about growing up, and they're about staying young. If that's not a theme that resonates with you - and if you never played Zelda as a child, it's easy to see why it might not - then Zelda won't probably won't affect you at all profoundly.
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"I really want to like them but I suppose it just comes down to people liking different things."
Yep, something that's strangely unrecognized in games. I too feel that way about Zelda (admittedly I've only tried Ocarina of Time), it felt bland and simplistic to me (in more ways than one). But I'm not saying it's a bad game, not at all. There are some movies that I know are great movies but that I still can't be bothered to watch either, because it doesn't appeal to me for some reason or other. That's a perfectly valid and normal thing to do, but for some reason where games are concerned things always seem like they need to be put into black/white. Though yes, I admit I've also played through worse games that maybe didn't (or shouldn't) appeal to me just to finish them... |
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Hey, not saying your opinion is wrong.. Just wondering what it was that didnt draw you to these games.
I do understand now though. Pretty much every zelda game i've played has started out rubbish and boring (leading you in too slowly imo) and doesnt start to get good until you get to the "i want to see what new inventive weapon i get next" part of playing.. In case of TP, that's over an hour or so in! So yeah.. I can understand that. I guess you have to have played zelda before to realise that no matter how slow it starts, it WILL get good later on .. and when it does.. wow! I dont buy this "it's all about growing up, so you need to have played it as a kid" rubbish. I didnt play the snes version until I was 21 (yes im old) |
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Muddtallica
29/11/06 @ 08:03
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Zomoniac: Wow, you really ARE an odd one! :P I'm reading what you're saying, and I just can't see how we're talking about the same game. You probably feel the same.
Story-wise, I wouldn't say the games are plotless, but I can see how you might think that. They're usually not very forceful with the storytelling, and prefer to let it just happen instead of really hammering it with dramatic cutscenes. TP is meant to be a step up in that respect, which is great, because I have loved the Zelda plots so far. OoT was straightforward but ultimately great, MM's was really interesting and quite emotional, and WW's was actually quite surprising well done too...but again, if you're not a huge fan, I can see how they might just pass you by. It's the technical stuff that gets me. Bad draw distance? It was fantastic! The opening few areas (Kokiri Forest, Lost Woods etc.) were foggy, yes, but that a style choice. I can rattle off a huge number of areas in that game which were massive for the time (Hyrule Field, Lake Hylia, Lon Lon Ranch, the Gerudo Valley ravine, Kakariko Village even) with no noticeable fogging or pop-up at all, and slowdown was very, very rare. Control-wise, I can't see how you could say MGS or Legcay of Kain were better...those were fixed camera affairs with simple "run and hit" controls. OoT's were much "smarter"; the camera was intelligent yet controllable, the different sword attacks and battle moves were intuitive and managed neatly by the lock-on and strafing system, the context-sensitive A-button (used to roll, jump, read, talk, pull, push, climb, swim) really streamlined things...it's more the whole package than any one feature. As for action, like smelly says, Zelda games usually start slow to let you get to grips with the world first before cranking up the puzzles and combat. Once you get into the meat of the game (the six Adult Link dungeons), you couldn't really complain about a lack of action. I would like to know exactly how far you got in the game, really, so I can see where you're coming from a bit better... But heck, it doesn't really matter, because I doubt this is something you'll change your mind on. I mean, you seem to like some of the other games, so it's not like you're just saying this to be contrary. I think that OoT may just best be left as one of those games that you didn't "get", because you're never going to be able to get it now, I don't think. May as well wait for TP. :) |
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nightsparkle
29/11/06 @ 11:37
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in my opinion the zelda games have gone downhill ever since the first game was made with every following game. granted, it's more like downmountain. except from the 3d zelda's i like windwaker best. but my point is, the newer the zelda's, the less they left over for your imagination and exploration, (worlds are smaller, bomblocations are marked) and definitely the lesser of a challenge they left over for you. dammit you can just walk pas enemies!!!! and you don't even need the extra hearts!!! there's a feeling of unexcited boredome when i play these zelda's, but also i have to keep playing.
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captain-future
21/12/06 @ 16:47
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Zelda II - best boss fight (then). I like the game much more than the first one.
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