PS3 Online: How It Works

By Rob Fahey Published 13 October, 2006

Face to face with PlayStation 3's online capabilities.

The debate about online gaming is over. (Although the debate about whether one can be "face to face" with a capability will perhaps linger.) While we've spent the last five years - and longer, in some cases - talking about whether online functions were actually important to games, that discussion is now at an end. Online won, although perhaps not in the way that its most loyal adherents had hoped for. Every next-gen console, and even every recent handheld console, now sports an online service out of the box; networks are becoming a core element of what we could, if we were being a bit pretentious, call "the gaming ecosystem".

That doesn't, however, mean that all games have become online games. We haven't dispensed with single-player, and we never will - for many people, compelling experiences come from storytelling or cinematics, not from deathmatch or 40-man raiding parties. It's still hard to tell just how many people actually care about online gaming in terms of actually playing with other people, but it's certainly a fairly small, albeit growing, proportion of gamers. No, the real explosion in online has come from other areas - such as the ability to get game demos, to access new content for your games, to communicate with friends, to create an online identity for yourself and even to download entirely new games or retro titles over the network. Multiplayer gaming, as distinct from online gaming, is just a small part of what is now a much larger tapestry.

Unsurprisingly, the PC has been the pioneer in this area, just as it was the first platform to really adopt networked multiplayer gaming. You've been able to download demos, shareware games and indie software for years, and of course communicating with friends and creating an identity for yourself is core to the PC's online functionality. In the console arena, Microsoft leads the charge; the Xbox was the first games console to have a broadband, fully functional online service that gave users friends lists, notifications, voice chat and so on as a core part of the console, rather than as a strapped-on afterthought, and Xbox 360 builds on that to a massive degree with services like Xbox Live Marketplace and Xbox Live Arcade.

Sony, on the other hand, is late to the party. The PlayStation 2 didn't even have a built-in network port, let alone a network service as part of the core offering - and while isolated online titles like Final Fantasy XI proved massively popular on PS2 (in places where it was available, anyway), even the most die-hard Sony fan couldn't exactly describe the PS2's online service as a success. Certainly, it had more users than Xbox Live did last generation - but then again, the PS2 also had an installed base five times larger. In terms of ease of use, consistency of interface, and simple accessibility - not to mention software support - PS2 online was a distant second place to Xbox Live.

Third Time Lucky

'PS3 Online: How It Works' Screenshot ffxi

Final Fantasy XI for the PS2.

Sony doesn't intend on allowing that to happen again - and despite Microsoft's five-year headstart in the online arena, the creators of PlayStation 3 are hoping that they can roll out an online service to rival Microsoft's for the launch of their console in Japan and North America in just a few scant weeks' time. A quick glance around the Internet suggests that skepticism regarding that particular goal is high - to say the least. Can a company whose online strategy in the last generation was so patchy, and their actual service so weak, really turn things around on the online front in time for the PS3's launch?

There's one way to tell for sure - actually look at the service in the flesh. For that, there's nowhere better to go than the office of Sony's worldwide studios boss Phil Harrison, located in Soho just near London's Oxford Street. Lots of Soho offices are pretty swish - but few of them have a fully functioning PlayStation 3 unit sitting under a massive HDTV screen, and hooked up to the test version of the PS3 online network which will switch over into a live service in early November when the console heads to store shelves in Japan and America.

First things first, and before we even touch the PS3, it's worth mentioning a few key factors which Sony is relying on heavily for the online service. For a start, the PS3 is designed from the ground up as an online device - unlike the PS2, which suffered from a number of major problems on that front. Building an online device requires a few major differences from an offline box - for one, it's important to be able to update your operating system, so that when you add new services or change features, you can incorporate those into the console's dashboard. On the Xbox or Xbox 360, new services are added with occasional software patches that are issued over Xbox Live; the PS2 couldn't do that, so you actually had to boot into a piece of software to do anything related to online functions. That's a clunky, messy way of doing things, and it's a big part of the reason why PS2 online was so poor.

PS3, however, has a fully upgradeable operating system, which is capable of downloading patches over the network and applying them to itself. This actually isn't new territory for Sony - the PlayStation Portable does exactly the same thing, and since that device was launched, Sony has added loads of new online features using network updates, including a fully functional web browser with Flash and RSS support. Actually, the comparisons with PSP don't stop there - we'll come back to those in a moment.

The other big difference on PS3 is that the device has a hard drive - even in its lower-spec configuration. This means that unlike the PS2, which relied on small, expensive memory cards that could easily be moved from machine to machine or even lost entirely, the console has the ability to store its configuration properly and reliably - not to mention being able to download and store loads of content. You couldn't have done that on PS2, which crippled the system from an online point of view.

Softly, Softly

'PS3 Online: How It Works' Screenshot hardware

The PS3, designed as an online device.

Okay, so Sony is getting it right on the hardware front this time. Let's not beat around the bush, though - hardware is only a small part of the battle. Online services live or die on the strength of their software. Can I set up an account easily? Can I add and manage friends without a doctorate in computer science? How about buying content, or browsing for demos?

Let's turn the console on and find out.

Booting up a PS3 immediately reminds you of the PSP once again, because you're presented with the Cross Media Bar - that row of category icons across the middle of the screen which expand out vertically to reveal a number of new options as you hover over them. In fact, PSP users will be right at home on the PS3, since Sony's drive to ensure that it's presenting a consistent interface to users of its products means that you'll even see exactly the same icons for the same functionality. Settings, Photo, Music, Video, Game... These are all familiar from the PlayStation Portable, and although each one of them undoubtedly sports additional functions here, that's not what we're here for.

No, we're really here for the new buttons on the bar. On the far left, the first thing you highlight when you log in is called User Profiles. On the far right, you've got two buttons called Network (which appeared on the PSP in a firmware update) and Friends. User Profiles looks like a little house with a smiling face on it; Network is a globe; Friends is two little houses with smiling faces sort of touching, in a platonic way. They're friends, you see. Friendly houses.

User Profiles works pretty much how you would expect it to, with a list of the different profiles stored on the console popping up in the vertical bar when this option is highlighted. Yes, this is old hat if you're an Xbox 360 user, but the PS3 will support multiple user profiles on the console - so when you turn it on, you select your own profile, and you're instantly logged into your own PlayStation Network account as well as activating all your own settings for the system. If you share a console with multiple different people, or if friends come around to play often, this is an incredibly useful feature.

Moving one left, we can make a brief stop off at Settings if you like - here, you'll find the settings page for your network, allowing you to enter exciting things like IP addresses and passwords for wireless access, using pretty much exactly the same interface as the PSP. As with other consoles (and, realistically, the majority of network devices these days), the chances are you'll never really need to tweak anything in here, as your home network probably allows devices to auto-configure themselves using DHCP. Obviously enough, the PS3 stores its settings permanently, so you won't have to re-enter them for different games or any such guff.

The One With The Single Sign-In ID

'PS3 Online: How It Works' Screenshot mediabar

PSP users will be at home with the PS3 interface, thanks to Sony's consistency efforts.

Okay, let's scoot across the bar to the right hand side. One in from the right you find the Network button; this, essentially, is the web browser on the console. Unlike the Xbox 360, PS3 has a fully functional web browser, which according to Harrison supports a wide variety of standards right up to the complex Web 2.0 stuff you find places like Gmail using - and you can access any site on the Internet through the browser. So yes, you'll be able to browse Eurogamer on your PS3; now there's a killer app for you. Much like the PSP browser, this one will also support stuff like bookmarks and all the other usual features you'd expect from a web browser.

We're now teetering on the very right hand edge of the Cross Media Bar, looking at the Friends icon. This is where the magic happens... Is what I'd probably say, if I were working in a circus.

On the Friends vertical bar, there are two different types of icon. The first, logically enough, are friends - each of your signed-in friends has their own icon on this bar, and you select that icon to view a number of different ways of interacting with them. The other icons are those for managing your PlayStation Network account. Let's talk about those first.

At heart, there are two types of PlayStation Network account - a master account, and an associated account. The chances are that most gamers will use master accounts, but associated accounts will be especially useful for families - where, for example, a parent (who holds a master account) wants to be able to limit the amount that their kids (with associated accounts) can spend in the PlayStation Store.

Either way, you create an account through a fairly simple process - a set of screens which ask you for sign-up information, and you're done. Those screens are actually displayed using the web browser component of the operating system, so it's just like filling in a registration form on a remote website - and then you're done. Every user on PlayStation Network has a single unique ID and sign-in details, just as you'd expect on any online service - and those sign-in IDs are global, so you'll be able to add your friends to your list regardless of where in the world they are.

Oh - and it's all free, too. The only place you'll be asked to fork over a penny is when you purchase something in the PlayStation Store - all of the online services, from sign-up right through to voice and video chat, are free, as is normal multiplayer gaming. There's no equivalent of the Xbox Live Gold account, where you're expected to pay extra for a further tier of services - the only things you'll pay money for are paid-for downloadable content, or subscriptions to premium services like massively multiplayer games.

So, once you add friends, what can you do with them? Obviously enough, you can check their status and see if they're online; you can see if you have any new messages from them, and send them messages. Sending emails through the system uses the same peculiar text messaging style keypad that users of the PSP will be familiar with, which seems a bit painful at first but rapidly becomes a much faster way of entering text than the on-screen keyboards used by other systems - however, if you're not really keen on using that to enter an entire message, you can always plug in any standard USB keyboard, which will work with any text entry field anywhere on the system, as well as with the web browser.

The other options available for you in terms of friends are voice and video chat. We haven't actually seen the accessories which will be used for this in the flesh, but EyeToy and voice headset components for the system are undoubtedly set for release close to launch, and the options for those functions are right there in the operating system already.

Again, those familiar with Xbox Live on the Xbox 360 won't find this terribly surprising, but it's worth noting that the system does show you friend sign-ins and new messages received in overlays on top of the game you're currently playing - just little notification windows which pop up to tell you about something happening with your friends list. At present, however, there's no system for actually reading or responding to messages while you're still in the game, as the operating system doesn't take resources away from games in order to do that - however, according to Harrison, that functionality may well appear in an OS update, presumably based on whether users actually express a desire for it or not.

Shop Till You Drop

'PS3 Online: How It Works' Screenshot singstar

SingStar will take full advantage of the PlayStation Store.

Friends are one part of the equation. The other part is the PlayStation Store, which is where you'll be able to buy content, download demos, and manage any premium subscriptions you may have. This is basically the central hub for everything you do with the PS3 online, and it looks the part - again, Sony is making good use of the web browser built into the console, and the PlayStation Store looks quite similar to Apple's iTunes or, more appropriately, Sony's own Connect Music Store. Far from being just a simple list of things you can download, it's a really attractive interface which highlights key content and lets you filter all of the available bits and pieces according to your own preferences - so even when there are thousands of pieces of content on the store, which doesn't seem improbable, it'll still be easy to find what you want. The Store also utilises a shopping cart - so it's easy to browse through items, find the stuff you want, and then go to a checkout page where you proceed to make a sad face and empty the whole cart again, just like we do on Amazon about four times a week.

We're not going to talk in much depth about PlayStation Store, because what we saw was still undoubtedly being worked on frantically to prepare for the November launch. However, there are a few elements that it's worth talking about - the first of which is the Wallet, which lies at the heart of how you buy things on the Store. Unlike Nintendo and Microsoft's offerings, Sony doesn't hide the price of items behind an arbitrary "points" scheme - instead, everything simply lists a price in your local currency, so European types will see a Euro price, British people will see prices in Pounds Sterling, and so on. The Wallet, then, is basically your transaction centre - you put money into the Wallet, and then spend it in the store. Equally, you can set it up so that if you have associated accounts, for children for example, you can put a certain amount into their Wallets each month, giving them an allowance for how much can be spent on new content. Crucially, the Wallet is used for everything on the system - even for MMOG subscriptions to third parties. If it's on the PlayStation Network, you pay for it via Sony and the transaction with the third party is worked out elsewhere - so you're not expected to give credit card details out willy-nilly to everyone with content or services on the PS3.

Another interesting aspect of the Store, which Harrison first talked about at GDC last March, is the fact that while you'll be able to access all forms of content through the "generic store" that you view from the PS3 dashboard, games will also be able to have more specific stores which use the same interface, but display only downloads relevant to their content. Thanks to the web-based interface, games will be able to re-skin those stores to fit with their look and feel, and you'll access them directly from the in-game menu - which is a fairly minor touch, but a nice one nonetheless.

As to the content that will be available, Sony is still playing its cards close to its chest to some extent - but one thing the giant firm is clear on is that the PlayStation Store will grow to encompass more than just new game content and demos. Alongside the free and paid-for game content, the store will also play host to a wide range of new titles developed specifically for download (the first of which, fl0w, was shown off at TGS - dozens more PlayStation Store exclusive titles are being worked on around the world thanks to an initiative which Sony launched at GDC last year) - and as Ken Kutaragi revealed at TGS last month, it'll also be possible to buy PSone and PS2 classics you missed out on, as well as a selection of PSP games, from the PlayStation Store, and download them directly to your PS3.

It may not end there. Sony, after all, is one of the biggest music and movie companies in the world - and it already operates a music store, Connect. While no official plans to allow you to download music and movies directly to your PS3 have been announced, Sony insiders are adamant that that is on the roadmap for the service - so within a short space of time, the money in your Wallet could be used to buy any type of digital entertainment you fancy.

Brave New World

'PS3 Online: How It Works' Screenshot controlling

Controlling the future? *Groan*

Once bitten, twice shy, the old saying goes - and based on that logic, Sony has some way to go before proving to people that it can do a comprehensive online gaming service. However, what we've seen is very promising. Account creation and management, buddy lists and various types of chat appear to be working just fine, the interface is simple and elegant, and the PlayStation Store, even at this early stage, looks like being one aspect of the service which will be a genuine improvement over Microsoft's offering, Xbox Live Marketplace - which is well-stocked, but has a terrible user interface that struggles to cope with the amount of content now available, and has only been marginally improved by recent updates.

There's still some way to go - and one area we're still intrigued by is what Sony will do about user profiles, which Microsoft revolutionised with Xbox 360 thanks to Gamer Points and Achievements. Love 'em or hate 'em, they're a big draw for many people, and how Sony will handle this aspect of its community remains to be seen.

However, for now we can say for certain that the online service is there - it exists and it's working, and according to Harrison, it will definitely launch right alongside the console this November. For those of us in Europe, of course, that probably means the rest of the world gets to iron out all the bugs before we see the console in March - there's always a silver lining on every dark cloud. Whatever your views on the console war may be, this is an excellent thing for gamers. Microsoft have a vast head-start over Sony online, but Sony's service has clearly learned many lessons from observing its rival, and in areas like the Store, is actually introducing new ideas and strong features which provide a genuine challenge. Head-start or not, Sony is now, finally, snapping at Microsoft's heels in the online space - and as the two giants inevitably launch into a race to take or maintain the lead in online services, the biggest winners of all will be gamers.

Picture of Rob.

About Rob Fahey

Rob Fahey is a former editor of GamesIndustry.biz who spent several years living in Japan and probably still has a mint condition Dreamcast Samba de Amigo set.

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (239) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dr.Mott #1 5 years ago

    FIRST!!!

    Now to read th article, I just didn't want to miss this chance.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #2 5 years ago

    Second!! get in!

  • Eighthours #3 5 years ago

    Good article!

    Down to the details: So, if you can't respond to messages ingame, this presumably means that cross-game invites aren't possible? Or cross-game voice chat?
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 16:48

  • crazyhorse174 #4 5 years ago

    That isn't true about the Xbox being the 1st broadband enabled console is it?

    Didn't the Dreamcast have an optional Broadband modem? Not sure if it was available over here though...

    Please confirm.

    EDIT: My mistake...it was actually referring to Xbox Live rather than Broadband capabilities....doh!
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 16:46

  • phAge #5 5 years ago

    3rd! Yay!

    (Most likely 47th, but still...).

  • EmiliasHorse #6 5 years ago

    With Sony's music and film studio ownership they stand a good chance of stuffing the PS3 with great stuff to download. I often look at the 360 entertainment and film trailers in the vain hope of something new...but alas.

  • Carrybagma #7 5 years ago

    It works???!

  • CrunchinJelly #8 5 years ago

    Who on earth wants to view websites on their TV?

    We had this with the Dreamcast and it just didn't work.

  • Dr.Mott #9 5 years ago

    "PS3 Online for gaming sounds good. Using the PS3 to browse the internet is of no interest to me, although i'm sure the PS3 web browser software has been well designed. "

    I hope the keyboard system is a lot better than the PSP's, that got pretty annoying.

  • lambtron #10 5 years ago

    "Certainly, it had more users than Xbox Live did last generation..."

    I'm sorry but that is completely incorrect. I'll think you'll find that the footprint of people using PS2 online is negligible. This seems to be left over from when Sony said more people were playing SOCOM than all the people playing Xbox live put together. That may have been true at the time, but Halo2 hadn't launched at that point and as Bungie stat's show that game got more unique player per day than SOCOM.

  • Halo.Jones #11 5 years ago

    Who on earth wants to view websites on their TV?

    We had this with the Dreamcast and it just didn't work.

    Viewing the websites on a HD capable TV is a big plus to me, means I don't have to walk upstairs to the PC if I want to have a quick surf of the net.
    Edited by 2 at 13/10/06 @ 16:54

  • Shinji #12 5 years ago

    Who on earth wants to view websites on their TV?

    Actually, speaking personally, I view websites on the screen in my living room loads. Handy when you want to drunkenly show someone something on YouTube, or prove a point on Wikipedia, or whatever :)

    That's sorta beside the point, though. I think what's more important is that having a web browser built in means that Sony can build actually attractive, functional interfaces for things like the PlayStation Store, or for sign-ups for various bits and pieces, and so on. It's one thing the 360 really lacks - Marketplace has great content, but the interface for finding any of it is a shambles.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 16:54

  • Carlo #13 5 years ago

    /bombshell.

    5pm on friday...

    This'll be going on all weekend

  • lambtron #14 5 years ago

    One other thing ... no mention of how this actually works in relation to games...

  • Shinji #15 5 years ago

    I'll think you'll find that the footprint of people using PS2 online is negligible.

    Worldwide, they had something like 6 million unique users on the service, as I recall. Bear in mind how many people played stuff like FFXI on the PS2. Certainly, no one PS2 game hit the concurrency numbers that Halo 2 managed, but overall more people used the service.

    Xbox Live usage in the last generation never even touched 2 million users. It was MUCH better than PS2 Online in terms of percentages, though (and in terms of just about everything else, which I think is rather more important to this discussion).

  • Shinji #16 5 years ago

    no mention of how this actually works in relation to games...

    I'm not sure what you want to know on that front. I've been sorta confused by that question on a few occasions, to be honest. Games will either be peer to peer, or run on publisher-provided services, same as they do on Xbox Live, but you'll have a centralised buddy list and messaging functions and so on.

    I'll grant, this isn't a comprehensive feature set yet - I confess that I honestly don't know if you can do in-game invites, which someone else asked about, but it's something that I absolutely will find out at the next possible opportunity.

  • lambtron #17 5 years ago

    I'm curious as to what defines using the service though Shinji.

    When I lived in the States plenty of stores were practically forcing people to buy broadband adapters ( i.e. giving them away free with the console ). If a user constitutes just signing up once for a free system as opposed to actually playing games online more than once then its not really a fair comparison.

  • repairmanjack #18 5 years ago

    "PSP users will be right at home on the PS3"... For some reason that line filled me with dread.

    I hope they get this right. Hell, they have to.

  • Mox #19 5 years ago

    Six million uniques? You're out of your tree.

  • skillian #20 5 years ago

    If most games are free to play online, then that's a huge advantage and system seller over XBL. Big enough to make the PS3 the online platform of choice, though performance will have to be good too.

    The fact that prices are in real money rather than some arbitrary points system is a good thing too.

  • Razorus #21 5 years ago

    It may be free, but Sony is taking a huge risk. They're going to lose a hell of a lot of money and may start charging for the online services some time in the future.

  • megastar #22 5 years ago

    sounds quite promising actually.

  • Carrybagma #23 5 years ago

    Actually, it sounds very cool. I've not used XBL before - I didn't know you could only have one profile per account. That wouldn't be good for me.

    Sounds like Sony and Nintendo are concentrating on presentation and accessibility whereas Microsoft are piling up content. XBL will become a 'geek only' service if Microsoft let the other two take the lead.

  • DCrider360 #24 5 years ago

    sounds like a xbox silver account actually.

  • SeesThroughAll #25 5 years ago

    It may be free, but Sony is taking a huge risk. They're going to lose a hell of a lot of money and may start charging for the online services some time in the future.

    Little Phil has already carefully (for a change) stated in an interview that not even online multiplayer is guaranteed to be free. For some games, such as launch titles like Resistance, it's expected to be free, but not for most games. And it looks like downloadable shiny horse armor will still cost 2 euros in a PS3. :D
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 17:20

  • JackB #26 5 years ago

    Nice article, but I wonder if he's a 360 user...

    "Yes, this is old hat if you're an Xbox 360 user, but the PS3 will support multiple user profiles on the console - so when you turn it on, you select your own profile, and you're instantly logged into your own PlayStation Network account as well as activating all your own settings for the system. If you share a console with multiple different people, or if friends come around to play often, this is an incredibly useful feature."

    Huh?? The 360 Live does that too. I already have 5 profiles on my 360, that can be switched without rebooting.

    I'm in the minority, that like the idea of the web browser. I might use it when I'm too lazy to boot my laptop.

    "the only things you'll pay money for are paid-for downloadable content, or subscriptions to premium services like massively multiplayer games."

    Umm, not so fast. Each publisher makes their own decisions here. Sony is charging for demos, so expect money will be going from your wallet to someones elses very soon. :-)

    "At present, however, there's no system for actually reading or responding to messages while you're still in the game, as the operating system doesn't take resources away from games in order to do that - however, according to Harrison, that functionality may well appear in an OS update, presumably based on whether users actually express a desire for it or not."

    That one is very useful on the 360. I'm chatting, messaging etc, a lot in lobbies to friends in another game. That's how I know, I should leave the game to join them...

    The store could be excellent with all of Sony's potential content. And I prefer money to points.

    All in all it looks promising. I'll enjoy the content, as that's a bonus, but the online multiplayer connectivity/lag issues and/or how many games will offer multiplayer is the most important for me.

    However, for many who want online for reasons other than multiplayer, this could work fine.











    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 17:24

  • Pooley #27 5 years ago

    This all sounds good. For me, the ability to access the Internet on my TV would be very useful as I currently don't have a PC linked to the screen.

    How do you navigate the web pages without a mouse though? I assume this is done via the controller, using the joystick.

    It would be cool if you could use the sixaxxis functionality to have a psuedo-3D mouse...

  • BartonFink #28 5 years ago

    That's sorta beside the point, though. I think what's more important is that having a web browser built in means that Sony can build actually attractive, functional interfaces for things like the PlayStation Store, or for sign-ups for various bits and pieces, and so on. It's one thing the 360 really lacks - Marketplace has great content, but the interface for finding any of it is a shambles.
    Very good pouint and I totally agree with you. As much as I like the service trying to find stuff in there is at times a right nightmare.

  • el_pollo_diablo #29 5 years ago

    The interface didn't actually debut on the PSP, it was on that piece of shit PSX first.

    I actually loathe the interface personally. Too many options all given equal weighting.

  • kingkatt #30 5 years ago

    Two questions:

    How do you buy anything from the store if you don't have a credit card to put money in your "wallet"?

    Having seen it first hand on a no doubt huge "full-HD" monitor, do you think any part of the interface will work on a normal sized standard def TV? On every screenshot I've seen so far, the text is tiny.

  • macksed #31 5 years ago

    if you can plug in a USB keyboard, or hard drive, etc, im sure you can plug in a usb mouse if you want.

  • bluebird #32 5 years ago

    @SeesThroughAll:

    "Little phil" has said that because Sony leaves the model up to the publishers.

    So far only the MMO publishers have asked for a monthly fee, which is reasonable, given the cost of keeping such a system running and supplied with content. The only reason you DO pay for online pvp on the Xbox 360, is because Microsoft COULD. They are the only ones in town at the moment, so they have no competition and can ask you what they want.

    Sony will not ask for a fee for playing online, and the publishers will not in most cases, just like they didn't ask for an extra fee on the 360. Like Disc said, their revenue model is through the shop, and Sony want to be the new Itunes (with games, audio, video, connectivity).

    Expect Microsoft to make gold membership free soon after the PS3 launches... :)

  • Ihya #33 5 years ago

    Glad there are no points, just Olde money prices.

    Interesting read.

  • ronuds #34 5 years ago

    Will you be able to download things onto the PS3 from the internet? Like, can I come to Eurogamer from my PS3 and download a video? That would be pretty cool. Otherwise, I don't see why I'd want to use my video game controller to navigate the web. What a pain that sounds like.

  • sport #35 5 years ago

    @disc: "No need to charge for the service, the service is like the internet except there is only one shop. YOUR shop. "

    don't quite get that - please explain...

  • Mordum #36 5 years ago

    Does'nt sound like its offering anything new at the moment. But just having a decent online service will be good for PS3 owners (theres nothing like online gaming, I love it). Also, I do like the fact that money will be shown in simple region currencies (£,$, etc)... I don't like the gamerpoints that Microsoft insist on using.

    I'm still waiting for some killer online feature that the PS3 will offer over its competitors. It is free apparently (although for the initial console price, it damn well should be), but what 'free' actually ends up meaning I'll wait and see. Hopefully there is no catches, then maybe Microsoft will scratch my Gold subscription cost :)
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 18:36

  • Gurgeh #37 5 years ago

    Game pricing will be up to the publishers, and as 3rd party publishers will get charged somewhere along the line for running servers / networking, that will get passed on to the end user, unless they allow Ps3s to host games or Sony generously allows bandwidth and servers for free.

    "As to the content that will be available, Sony is still playing its cards close to its chest to some extent - but one thing the giant firm is clear on is that the PlayStation Store will grow to encompass more than just new game content and demos"

    From Sony's point of view the games will be the minor point of the Store. They want you to buy music and movies direct from them, bypassing stores, pirated copies and especially the internet along the way.

  • kangarootoo #38 5 years ago

    "Who on earth wants to view websites on their TV"

    That would be the thousands out there with media centre PCs and mini macs connected to their TVs. You're welcome.

  • kangarootoo #39 5 years ago

    @Razorus

    "They're going to lose a hell of a lot of money and may start charging for the online services some time in the future."

    I'm sure they have thought of a business plan that stretches more than a few months. And almost certainly a business plan that doesn't involve doing what you suggest.

  • optimusprym8 #40 5 years ago

    publishers will be able to charge what they want for content and so we'll end up paying wildly differing amounts for essentially the same thing from title to title. Hmm... spose it makes sense for MMOs though and other in-game micro-payment stuff.

  • Guff-Pipe #41 5 years ago

    I know its bloody cocking expensive to start with but with free online gaming, a good size Hard drive (60gig) and the need to not have to buy an extra wireless adapter, and play and charge kit a la 360, make it a little bit easier to swallow.

    Sounds good to me. like the idea of being able to plug my keyboard in and browse the web on my TV. I think someone already mentioned it will be handy for showing friends web stuff like you tube when they come round.

  • kangarootoo #42 5 years ago

    "if you can plug in a USB keyboard, or hard drive, etc, im sure you can plug in a usb mouse if you want."

    I believe PS3 will support standard bluetooth peripherals too. So you can use a bluetooth keyboard or your blutooth mobile phone headset.

  • kangarootoo #43 5 years ago

    "so we'll end up paying wildly differing amounts for essentially the same thing from title to title"

    Normal market mechanics will even things out. If one game charges shit loads and another doesn't, people won't buy the expensive content and their prices will have to drop in response. Other markets don't have some pricing overseer and they work themselves out just fine.

  • kangarootoo #44 5 years ago

    This is a good thread. Comments, questions, discussion. This is the way it should always be.

    I'm sure it will be f*cked in an hour.

  • TripleSeven #45 5 years ago

    Very nice. A few things remain to be seen, but paying for Gold 12 months a year over 5 years looks pretty bad right now. "Choice and bargain bla-bla". Sorry for that. I'm sick of this nonsense.

  • Xerx3s #46 5 years ago

    and then go to a checkout page where you proceed to make a sad face and empty the whole cart again, just like we do on Amazon about four times a week.

    So, the only thing different about that wallet system is that it shows currency instead of MSpoints?

    I'm a bit confused now, how does the whole Xfire thing fit into this? 0_o

  • tonynibbles #47 5 years ago

    Nice article. Actually something to get excited about. If it really can be as good as iTunes Store, with perhaps music and video in the future - All the more for my PSP, I'll be a happy customer.

  • kangarootoo #48 5 years ago

    @LeDilettante

    Hopefully the paid for content aspect of online gaming will help with that (and its not unique to Sony obviously).

    In other words, to get people buying your content you need to keep them interested in playing your game. One way to do that is to ensure that your servers are up to the task. If people stop playing your game due to poor server performance, you will have a hard time convincing them to buy additional maps (or whatever).

    Same with subscriber games. If your support blows, people stop subscribing.

    Thats one thought on the subject anyway, but certainly not the limit. The core concept is that quality sells and disappointment does not.

  • Xerx3s #49 5 years ago

    If most games are free to play online, then that's a huge advantage and system seller over XBL. Big enough to make the PS3 the online platform of choice, though performance will have to be good too.

    Not when you have to buy all the tracks, cars and other components separately.

    The word free seems to have the same effect on gamers as a flame on mosquito's. There is no such thing as free. Someone has to pay and neither sony nor the dev's are going to pick up the bill for hosting great servers long after the game sales have slumped.

  • Lex_Luthor #50 5 years ago

    Nice article, and an oddly interesting comments section(for the most part) to go with it for a change.

    I still can't see myself bothering with online gaming in the near future though.

  • yonno #51 5 years ago

    thats a hell of a big article for such a small bit of news

  • Steroyd #52 5 years ago

    o_O

    Where did this come from?

  • AL7AIR #53 5 years ago

    Finally ... Sony's Wallet was one of the things I hoped for so I don't have to give my credit card details to every company I'd buy stuff from.

  • #54 5 years ago

    thats a hell of a big article for such a small bit of news

    Sounds like EG on the jazz again...

  • MadMirko #55 5 years ago

    Finally ... Sony's Wallet was one of the things I hoped for so I don't have to give my credit card details to every company I'd buy stuff from.

    But how is money going to get into that "Wallet"? In the end it's exactly the same as with Nintendo- or Microsoft-Points, or is there some difference I'm missing?
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 18:50

  • IronGiant #56 5 years ago

    After hearing nothing for a long time it's nice to finally get some solid info and good stuff too. Roll on March 07 :)

  • Hughes. #57 5 years ago

    @MadMirko

    It just adds a little more transparency to the pricing, as opposed to euphamising the money away as being already spent (altough it still is already spent) and converted to points that you may as well spend. At least you have an instant knowledge how much you have spent rather than converting some arbitrary points system.

    Having a one-click option whoever you're buying DLC from is a plus, too, even though I'm still a bit dark on the idea of DLC. Seeing real-money prices may lead to a more sensible spending attitude, as it does when I see the prices of ringtones/games I might want for my phone, and think again when I see the amount that will be on my next bill.

  • urban #58 5 years ago

    thanks for that unbiast view on sony's service rob, unlike some of your counter parts at eg :p

  • JediMasterMalik #59 5 years ago

    Very happy that things are looking up for the online service. There's been alot of speculation, and I hope that any unanswered questions will be answered soon.

    Glad about the local currency prices aswell.

  • spongebob #60 5 years ago

    I don't know about rest of you (except the Xbox fanbois), but I don't see any reason why Sony would fail with the system. It sounds like a really simple and good online scheme with some proven formulas (yeah, they're borrowed from some others, so what) and some new stuff.

    Now we'll just have to wait and see how people will react to it when they use it.

    I especially liked the fact that it has a web browser and that the console supports ANY USB keyboard. MS should take note and add these to Xbox 360 asap.

  • xoolander #61 5 years ago

    I know it's less than ideal that a Gold subscription on XBox Live cost$, but I do like the fact that there's at least a penalty to griefers (loss of their paid for account) when they're an ass on the service. With free online gameplay, shouldn't we expect online gaming on the PS netowrk to be even worse as far as decorum? If it's free, there's no punishment if you're a dick.

  • MadMirko #62 5 years ago

    @Hughes

    I see. I wonder if this is going to affect sales. As you said, it may (psychologically) be easier to spend 100 points on something than 1€. It will be interesting to see how prices compare across the globe. Will everything cost a different amount of local currency, or is 1 $ = 1€ = 100 Yen = 85 Rand, and so on?

    I don't know yet, I haven't played around Live too much, but I think I prefer the point system.

    DLC makes me a little nervous. If it's going to take off like ringtones you'll get a full price game with half the content it would have if DLC didn't exist. I'm also a little afraid of DRM issues. Will I get to keep my content across consoles, so when the first PS3 breaks, or when I have to delete something when the hard drive is full, will I be able to download my stuff again? Can I take my content to a friend, can I loan it to someone while I'm playing with something else? Can I sell it again?

    The current attitude of the content and media makes me think the answer is a NO, and that's a major argument against DLC in the virtual vs. physical debate.

  • mattigan #63 5 years ago

    "The core concept is that quality sells and disappointment does not. "

    And a very noble concept it is too, however you have to wonder how this fits in with Sony's "apparent" ideology that it's "Playstation" as a brand that sells. They really need to make sure that the DLC comes thick and fast and is of a high quality, if this is to work.

    Now, as some people on here are probably aware I'm a Sony "sceptic" through and through and a recent convert to Xbox360, and if the Sony offering proves to be better than Microsofts offering, I'd be happy to switch. I just can't see it happening.

    And I don't doubt for one second that there will be a 360 web browser added to the dashboard if Sony and Nintendo's ones prove popular, you can't deny that Microsoft has had some limited experience with web browsers in the past ;)

  • Steroyd #64 5 years ago

    @MadMirko

    Sony keeping the money in the actual currency throughout the service is better, i know what you mean that psychological barrier to spend 100 points rather than knowingly spend £2 for example, but with people actually knowing what's what without having to translate it could help the overall DLC prices could go down rather than increase without us the consumers being totally oblivious.

    I certainly wouldn't like it if I had to bid on Ebay using Ebay points.

    And a very noble concept it is too, however you have to wonder how this fits in with Sony's "apparent" ideology that it's "Playstation" as a brand that sells. They really need to make sure that the DLC comes thick and fast and is of a high quality, if this is to work.

    Sony would be comlpete idiots not to converge their movie and music business into the PS3 online service, particuarly the music industry where the retail music is getting raped from the likes of Itunes.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 19:36

  • style #65 5 years ago

    I have to agree that using real money is far superior to any company-specific currency. I'm really surprised that Microsoft went down this route. I'm not happy with it at all.

  • MadMirko #66 5 years ago

    Steroyd, maybe you are right, but both systems do not have transparent prices and allow for much regional shafting.

    If something costs 1000 points in a point based system, it might be you paid 10€ in Europe or only 5$CDN in Canada for those points.

    If something costs 10 Yen in a currency based system, you might pay 3€ for it in Europe.

    It's all up to the vendor and the local branch.

    So in the end it might be of little consequence. Lower prices only come from competition, so whoever has the most companies offering DLC will likely have the lowest prices. The problem is, many if not all companies will have a monopoly on DLC for their games, so if the game proves popular they can can charge more and don't fear someone else undercutting them.

    Somehow I have the feeling that us Europeans will pay more for evertyhing. Just out of principle.

  • captainrentboy #67 5 years ago

    PS3 fucking suuuucks!!!!
    I joke of course,it all sounds surprisingly swell at the moment,and if the online multiplayer games come thick and fast next year,for free,that could be a mighty kick to the balls of Microsoft,who in my opinion would have no choice but to slash the price of Gold membership pretty darned rapidly.
    I'd also much prefer to be using real money to purchase things rather than those darned MS points,so that's another plus to the PS3 service.
    But let's not all get too excited too quickly and start acting like the 360's online service is a thing of the past,there are probably like 50 people testing the PS3's online service right now,and if it ran anything but bloody smoothly for these journo demos it would be rather worrying,let's all see how well it runs when there are thousands of users logged on buying things,net browsing,and playing games before declaring the service an amazing success.

  • Steroyd #68 5 years ago

    If i've got a kid who plays resistance online and wants to download content, I'm gonna feel a lot better about giving him a £5 and telling him to pick some gamerpoints up from GAME, rather giving him my credit card details to add to his online wallet.

    you didn't read that article did you?

    Equally, you can set it up so that if you have associated accounts, for children for example, you can put a certain amount into their Wallets each month, giving them an allowance for how much can be spent on new content.

    You don't have to give little timmy you're credit card details, you could just transfer the money into his account, the equivalent of giving him a fiver without letting him access to where you got the fiver from.

  • style #69 5 years ago

    I can sort of see where Wonga is coming from. But why can't I just go into a store, and 'top up' my Xbox Live account like I do with a mobile phone? Why all this points malarky? I can see the value of being able to avoid credit card payments altogether, by utilising retail and cash payments, sure. I think it's a great idea. But why can't everything just be monetised? If Vodafone can do it.....

  • Shinji #70 5 years ago

    One thing that the Live subcription ensures though, is relatively good and level server performance. Even then, some games suffer from lag due to shoddy netcode.

    I think you're critically misunderstanding the Live service. The incredibly vast majority of Xbox 360 games use peer to peer networking - there are no game "servers" as such. You set up a game, and it's hosted on your machine. For games where this isn't the case, Microsoft does have hosting centres for the games (just as I believe Sony does). In Sony's case, publishers have the option of just using another provider for their hosting. There's no gigantic central server farm where all Xbox games are hosted or any such thing.

    If i've got a kid who plays resistance online and wants to download content, I'm gonna feel a lot better about giving him a £5 and telling him to pick some gamerpoints up from GAME, rather than giving him my credit card details to add to his online wallet.

    So instead, you just add a fiver to his online wallet from yours, using the Master account system. I don't really see the difference, except that one isn't a physical transaction. Of course if you're a parent whose kid has a PS3 and you don't know shit about how it works, that's a bigger issue. I'd guess that Sony will do prepay cards for that situation, just like every other service provider does.

  • Steroyd #71 5 years ago

    The Master account thing sounds the equivalent of being an administrator on a computer.

    Plus it sounds like you can transfer money down from the master account, it depends how much control you're bothered to have really.

  • antena #72 5 years ago

    Best article ever. Infromative and unbiased (which is shocking when it comes to PS3 news nowadays).
    Thanks a lot EG!

    This shows me why Sony has been so arrogant lately. They simply have an amazing product here and once this is out with all these amazing fetures and games, no one will care about the delays, the price etc. Not to mention Sony has a good name in movies AND music so their store should be 'buzzing'.

    I am simply at awe at how well Sony is running their PS brand. Don't worry about Sony going broke, their software sales alone make them the richest company in the gaming. Not to mention over 100 Million PS consoles sold and over 400 Million controllers sold.

    This all sounds very exciting but one thing I do agree on is- Will the online games run well? And I am sure greedy companies such as EA will charge us for online play as they did with Fight Night Round on PSP (although all the other PSP games are free to play online).

    And we are losing some features (as for my understanding) such as inviting friends to join your server, sending messages in game etc...I think that's why Sony made a deal with Xfire so they can implement these features into games.

    If everything runs as planned.....I think the word "Perfect" won't be far off to describe Sony's online plan.
    As a consumer, I am very pleased.

    Thank you Sony.

  • Hench #73 5 years ago

    Bloody hell eurogamer, when will you ever notice the difference between "sports" and "supports". You make this error everytime and it pisses me off. Sort it out please

  • Yossarian #74 5 years ago

    THANK YOU SONY! GOD BLESS YOU!!!

  • antena #75 5 years ago

    Slow your roll, God can only bless America.

  • Shinji #76 5 years ago

    Bloody hell eurogamer, when will you ever notice the difference between "sports" and "supports". You make this error everytime and it pisses me off. Sort it out please

    Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't actually make an error there. It's perfectly acceptable to use "sports" in that context, and it's not a synonym for support or intended as such - the closest synonym would be "boasts".

  • Azazel #77 5 years ago

    gosh-darned grammar Nazis...

  • Hench #78 5 years ago

    Hmmm

    Nicely written though Rob.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 20:49

  • Ubersnuber #79 5 years ago

    Im not surprised by this, many ppl on the net has been negative about Sony's online service and their NDA, but Sony remains silent until they are ready as always.
    The magic word "free" will get loads of people to use it IF the service runs smoothly and without major problems.

    Good article EG!

    And thanks to all in here for keeping this thread cool:)
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 21:05

  • Calgon #80 5 years ago

    Shinji not got any complaints about your article, only your comment here on Live server fees... it's not quite as simple as MS has just set up live as a peer to peer network and charged for it(its a tightly closed and secure network for gaming, on MS consoles only... although this will change when Live Anywhere rolls out, Im not sure how well that will work out but we will see what Vista and the first games to use it such as Shadowrun bring us), to cash in while there is no competition. No there are plenty of server fees to be paid and MS are the ones who spent billions(apparently) setting the infrastructure up, before the service even rolled out. Now if Sony can match the Live service for free then fair enough(but like you say many are skeptical), but I feel if that is indeed what they are aiming for then they must have done something differently(because we know Sony dont like to take losses at all) and maybe people may notice that(... unless they havent played live, perhaps it will fall short for some gamers, I'm not buying the idea of them taking a risk of hoping to make just enough back on the content sold).
    Edited by 3 at 13/10/06 @ 21:18

  • Psi #81 5 years ago

    great article positivly written and helps convince me not to rule the console out entirely

    whoever said ' who wants to browse the web from their tv '



    oh dear me... honestly at the moment im considering cancelling sky and just using the htpc. tv card in there for uk freeview and recording, american tv guide linked and a torrent client. ip tv is the future. even my lass is now convinced after i've shown her how to use it all.

    the article also stresses that the online war has ended and most people don't want to play online... honestly i can't play single games anymore

    just cant play em. playing the cpu is like playing tennis against one of those ball gun things, just f-ing pointless. first thing i did when i switched this pc on (my lass is downstairs watching bones or summik downloaded, its not legal but what ever) first thing i did was connect to vent so i could talk to people i know.

    the social aspect of gaming is the main draw for me, however all the consoles seem determined to isolate gamers to their service. why on earth can they not just share a common platform? if content really is king then it shouldnt bloody matter anyway.

  • JediMasterMalik #82 5 years ago

    Question for EG staff (Shinji?) - When you are playing a game, can you communicate with other players in the game through voice/vid/text chat? Is this up to the devs of the game (as I assumed)? Is the lack of text communication only related to people on different servers in games?

  • Hughes. #83 5 years ago

    @Psi

    360, Wii, PS3 and PC owners all being able to play against each other would be truly fantastic. I doubt we'll see it this generation, but maybe the next, eh?

  • PS3lol #84 5 years ago

    Enjoy your free PS3 online play, it will be shit and not a patch on Xbox live.

  • Xerx3s #85 5 years ago

    The pedant in me wishes to point out that Web 2.0 is a design concept/set of principles, and that it cannot be "supported" in the same way as web standards and technology. Though it's obvious what you mean.

    Hush. Sony almost managed not to bs us, such a small thing should be forgiven. ;)

    You can buy MS point cards in most gaming shops.

    But the question is: Do YOU want to? eh? EH?! DO YOU REALLY?!!

    /gives gremmi the evil eye

  • PS3lol #86 5 years ago

    "the PlayStation Store, even at this early stage, looks like being one aspect of the service which will be a genuine improvement over Microsoft's offering, Xbox Live Marketplace - which is well-stocked, but has a terrible user interface that struggles to cope with the amount of content now available, and has only been marginally improved by recent updates.
    "
    I guess you're just not very good at simple tasks. the 360 interface is perfect. Try it without being high on crack and taking back handers from Sony next time.

  • J*C #87 5 years ago

    Whatever sony do, microsoft will better it.

  • Xerx3s #88 5 years ago

    Argh, MN mentioned this on his blog!
    <a href='http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/1 0/13/A-look-at-PS3-Online.aspx'>Let the invasion begin...</a> :\

  • JediMasterMalik #89 5 years ago

    Whatever sony do, microsoft will better it.

    Really, do enlighten me on what they do so much better than Sony other than online?

  • mattigan #90 5 years ago

    This whole article is about how online is where it's at, and you just admited that M$ do "online" beter than $ony LOL

    Aren't you supposed to be a sony fanboy?

  • Shyotl #91 5 years ago

    "as the operating system doesn't take resources away from games in order to do that"
    Conjecture or confirmed? Seems like the former.

  • gerald #92 5 years ago

    That's what I call an informative article. Nice job.

    Free Multiplayer sounds cool. But Sony still has to proove they can put all their tech to good use. PSP had some of these things (browser, direct download of content, a shop to buy content from) for some time now but Sony isn't doing much with it. The latest demo in the PSP Store is from mid August. You can't buy a thing there, it's all free demos, wallpapers, promo-clips... So please get some cool content up there. Xbox Live did a pretty good job releasing demos, video coverage from events and Live Arcade Games over the sommer slump.

  • Daithi #93 5 years ago

    Surely security is going to be a bit of a worry here. Live is a closed system, by adding a browser and exposing themselves to the web are Sony not asking themselves for a world of hurt here, who's going to supply the antivirus, anti spyware etc. and how many systems will be borked before they react to the inevitable first big infection? Ohter than that it sounds good (and very familiar). I don't like the no access to messages ingame but i'm sure that will be patched pretty quickly and would also be concerned at the quality of the shop on a SD TV.

    One more thing for those complaing about the transparency of MS points. If i remember correctly the MS points system was done because credit cards have a minimum transaction value and they felt this would limit the pricing structure available to publishers (that said looking at the prices for the content so far that sounds more like "an excuse to" than a "reason for";). They should display a realtime conversion to your local currency when making a purchase.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 22:48

  • thinktank #94 5 years ago

    Good board this turning out to be, but im a bit baffelled.

    I mean this all sounds great but didn't we all know Sony were goin to offer these services already?. Personaly i was never worried about PS3's front end, thats not the difficult part its the network behind the flashy front end thats the important bit.

    There's no point having a flash looking porsche if its got the engine of a metro.

    I really hope they are able to pull this off, because XBL will almost certainly become free.

  • gerald #95 5 years ago

    And Shinji is right: Xbox Live doesn`t do multiplayer gaming, it's up to the games to implement that. All multiplayer sessions are hosted on one players machine (except MMOG-Realms).

    Xbox live is: lobbying server, friends, chatting, etc., purchase and download content, setting up multiplayer sessions, score and achievements database, DRM for games an multimedia and - from developers view - a bunch of libaries and API's to access all this.
    Xbox Live is not: dedicated multiplayer servers or actual MP-Network code.

  • JediMasterMalik #96 5 years ago

    @mattigan - JC said anything, since when does anything encompass only online? Unless he was being specific to the article, in which case he is still wrong, M$ could NOT get the kind of shopping standards Sony has the option of, simply because Sony owns parts of the Music and Movies industry, meaning the Sony shop will be far more interesting than the live marketplace.

    Edit - It's good to know that Live uses P2P gaming, it meens that Sony's service may not be as "laggy" and perform as badly as people would have us beleive.
    Edited by 1 at 13/10/06 @ 23:17

  • KillahSouljah #97 5 years ago

    Whatever Microsoft do, Sony will better it.

    XBOX 360 - PLAYSTATION 3

    XBOX Live - PLAYSTATION NETWORK

  • KillahSouljah #98 5 years ago

    I bet this is hurting all you xbox fanboys reading this, mwahahahaha.

    Oi PlayStation Network is FREE.

    You fools keep paying Microsoft to play games. lol.

    Mugs.

  • captainrentboy #99 5 years ago

    Antena your praise is a little over the top and possibly premature,I don't think I've ever seen a post with such gushing support for an electronics company :/
    Killahsouljah keep on fighting the good fight,your post is as informative as ever!....Twat :)

  • KillahSouljah #100 5 years ago

    i can its already hurting rentboy the little batty boy.

  • JediMasterMalik #101 5 years ago

    Killa and I define the difference between a fan and a fanboy, take note people. ;)

    Edit - @disc - You are correct, ad it may happen if SCE do indeed form close ties to other Sony departments for the shop, I mean it ould hardly harm them to do so, I think it will happen. Thing is though, it could be a massive source of income for them, less so for MS, simply because they would be paying for the privelage to allow the content for Dl.
    Edited by 2 at 13/10/06 @ 23:45

  • dsmx #102 5 years ago

    It does seem that what I said when the psp launched, that the psp was released to test stuff for the ps3 was right, which also implies that sony have been working on the online system from before the psp was released which is a good sign.

    From what little NEW infomation we were given it sounds very hopeful there's no major red flags as of yet and the interface seems very easy to use. However we still no nothing about the online game servers, will we be able to use our ps3's to set up dedicated servers for games? will it use p2p? Will companies charge to use servers? will it be laggy?

    These are just some of the questions that need answering in less than a month. While I'm still undecided on which next gen console to get, or none of them as I'm yet to see anything that really says it's worth buying another console.

  • Mox #103 5 years ago

    You shouldn't underestimate how expensive it is to host lobbying and presence services. It seems they aren't hosting lobbying/matchmaking, which probably saves a bit.

  • Xerx3s #104 5 years ago

    Wow, lot's of $-sign's flying around today. Next thing you know, they will bring them out and start swinging them about. 0_o

  • KillahSouljah #105 5 years ago

    PlayStation Network
    - PlayStation ID (Handle / Username / Password)
    - User Profile
    - Friends list
    - Message system (text, image, audio, video)
    - Chat system (text, audio, video)
    - Matchmaking system
    - Ranking system
    - PlayStation Store (PS/PS2/PSP game downloads)
    - In-game Store
    - Web Browser
    - In-game Notifications
    - Online Gaming (free)

    ALL FREE!

    You mugs keep paying the richest company in the world to play games online.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 01:24

  • skillian #106 5 years ago

    PC, Wii, PS3, 360 - all multiplayer gaming will become free soon enough - either that or all models will start charging.

    There's just no room for two such wildly different systems across rival platforms.

  • Calgon #107 5 years ago

    gerald: Nobody said live was a series of dedicated servers set up for Xbox live games either(well I certainly didnt), but Shinjis explanation was way to over simplified and yours was not much better. To make it sound like MS would throw so much money at an online service(something which MS are far far more experienced and equiped for) when they are more likely able to do this more quickly and cheeply than the competition if they chose to, is nonsense. They didnt chose some quick route to make a cheap buck or two(they have invested far more than anyone else in the console industry, that is FACT) ... why do you think this is?

    This is because its necessary to keep things running as smooth, seemless and effecient as possible. It's also constantly maintained and improved as MS feel necessary(they do this quite alot, this tuesday for example). Sony tried to tell us they knew better last gen and so far I'm still not convinced even though it is a huge improvement over PS2s service(this is all thanks to MS leading the way... lets not forget they showed how it should be done, a good thing none the less for Sony followers), to say they've already mached 360s offering without even trying it yet shows some of the EG staff still have some bias(It's alot better than it used to be atleast but do they ever learn?).

  • Krun #108 5 years ago

    I do I hope Sonys online system is good competition for xbox 360. It looks like it could do a fair job, but we'll only find out when its running.

  • viperfoxbat #109 5 years ago

    So who foots the bill for server and bandwidth space? Do developers have to shoulder this burden?

  • Psychotext #110 5 years ago

    I'll be waiting to see it in the flesh. Sounds nice and all but two things concern me:

    1: Why is there no online functionality in launch and near launch games?
    2: Where else will we get raked to pay for this functionality?

    (Yes there are costs involved and they're already losing a TON of money on the hardware... so where's the profit coming from?)

  • anoncoward #111 5 years ago

    From playing about with it for the past day:

    It's big, and it dominates the space it's near/in.
    It shows fingerprints up (far less of an issue when it's under your TV compared to on your desk, of course. It'll be further away and you won't want to, or be able to, touch it)
    It's heavy (or at least, the ***** is).
    Pad is light.
    It's quiet (during dashboard stuff anyway).

    I haven't played anything on it. I can't comment on the graphical fidelity. The menu moves about nicely, but is more sparse than the 360's. I haven't taken it online. If I were forced to pick the better dash/menu now, from between the PS3 or the 360, I'd pick 360. But like I said, I haven't taken it online.

  • ProdigyBE_OPM #112 5 years ago

    Hm... Disk seems to be forgetting one of the most important Euro launch titles:
    MotorStorm (12 players)
    Rainbow Six: Vegas (16 players)
    Call of Duty 3 (24 players)

    And some more games coming in March/April
    Brothers in Arms 3 (unknown)
    Haze (unknown)

    And some online games you can get on Japanese import (region free rocks)
    Gran Turismo HD

    Honestly, I hope most of these games have international servers. Otherwise many good online games wil nog have enough users, just because there are too many of them.

  • bloodflowers #113 5 years ago

    Here are two questions.

    1) Who is providing the network infrastructure? This is one of the core reasons PS2 Online was so bad - it was horribly slow and unreliable depending on where you lived. Blame Gamespy.

    2) So - you put money into your wallet? I bet you have to do that in chunks, 10 quid at a time or something, which ends up being no better than Marketplace. Really cheap and dirty way to extract more money from people.

  • Dr.Mott #114 5 years ago

    Now if only the PS3 came with an HD-AV cable...

  • deem #115 5 years ago

    CrunchinJelly Wrote:
    Who on earth wants to view websites on their TV?

    We had this with the Dreamcast and it just didn't work.


    You had a HDTV when you had a Dreamcast?

    Lucky bugger.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 09:53

  • Mox #116 5 years ago

    Dunno where you people are getting Sony-hosted lobbying and matchmaking from. If they do provide it, I guess Quazal have signed a pretty poor deal - what developer is going to pay them, when the platform provides it for free?

  • Les #117 5 years ago

    "Sony doesn't hide the price of items behind an arbitrary "points" scheme - instead, everything simply lists a price in your local currency, so European types will see a Euro price, British people will see prices in Pounds Sterling, and so on."

    YES!!!! :D

  • Psychotext #118 5 years ago

    Cool, I'll admit that I'd seen a lot of news about multiplayer being dropped from titles, good to see that it is there for those.

  • captain-future #119 5 years ago

    Great article, also good note that online-gamers are a small minority. I wonder if online multiplayer is the right way.

    Aside from that online distribution / content downloads will undoubtetly increase.

  • captainrentboy #120 5 years ago

    I agree with Calgon,everyone seems to be getting far too excited about PS3's online service far too early,and to claim it's already better than the 360's is just silly.Granted at the moment it's looking very nice and is clearly a vast improvement over the PS2's mess of a service,but before stating that Sony are the saviours of online gaming with their great FREE service lets wait and see how smoothly it all works for your average consumer when they start using it come mid November.
    Not much in this world comes for free,i'm still willing to bet there will be a catch of somesort somewhere in this service.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 12:41

  • foamy #121 5 years ago

    Sony by making the base service free, and not having to worry about maintaining any kind of servers is a win-win situation for them. They can use the "free" thingie for publicity, while anyone who wants anything more than just check their friends, and needs some downloadable content will need to "open their Wallet".

    Anyway, I'm glad Sony managed to build a good service, or what it seems to be, at least. Now, we just need to see this massively implanted with some dozens of thousands of players worldwide using it at the same time.

    And btw, I just love the psp-like interface. Kudos for Sony for using it.

  • MadMirko #122 5 years ago

    This shows me why Sony has been so arrogant lately. They simply have an amazing product here and once this is out with all these amazing fetures and games, no one will care about the delays, the price etc.
    ...
    I am simply at awe at how well Sony is running their PS brand. Don't worry about Sony going broke, their software sales alone make them the richest company in the gaming.
    ...
    I think the word "Perfect" won't be far off to describe Sony's online plan.
    As a consumer, I am very pleased.

    Thank you Sony.

    Ken, is that you? Have you given us the first prayer of the Church of Sony?

    Sheesh...

  • captainrentboy #123 5 years ago

    Really?I thought using the same interface was kind of unoriginal,yes it works fantastically on the PSP as it's a handheld and the simplicity of it all is well suited.
    But to me the blandness and how empty of detail it all looks is a bit ''meehhh'', especially when it's on on a £425 super console connected to a giant HDTV :/
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 12:55

  • Les #124 5 years ago

    "I don't think i'm explaining this very well... but the fact that you purchase points in advance makes all the difference."

    No it doesn't. It's an easy scheme to make you spend more money by using a 'currency' the value of which you don't have a clear perception. It just stinks.

    /off to play KH2 again... Playing games is way better than reading idiot fanboy posts... ;)

  • HarryB #125 5 years ago

    sounds quite good, i don't know how the 360 user interface can be seen as bad, though?

  • BartonFink #126 5 years ago

    Yea didn't get that clear perception lark coming Les either Wonga.
    I reckon it's very clear you go to shop buy points for a set amount of currency. Buy downloads with points. Clear as crystal and not very complicated. It's a good system and it works.

  • Stormflood #127 5 years ago

    PS3 online sounds excellent. It's what PS3 buyers wanted, plus some. The only arguments from here on are in the realms of fanboy squabbling and preference.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 13:34

  • BartonFink #128 5 years ago

    Aye, got hight hopes for it let's just hope it works well. Maybe then as a few others (the reasonable ones) have mentioned MS may ditch the subs for Live (can't see that happening though) Definately a step in the right direction from Sony.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 14:05

  • tobi #129 5 years ago

    lookin good.

  • Xerx3s #130 5 years ago

    PC, Wii, PS3, 360 - all multiplayer gaming will become free soon enough - either that or all models will start charging.

    Ah, but that is where you are mistaken. All platforms charge for their service, they just shuffle around with who pays the cost and in what manner (be it visible or integrated in other essential products). There is no such thing as free, one way or another, you always pay the price.

    anoncoward: Do you have one? How did you manage to do that? 0_o

    sounds quite good, i don't know how the 360 user interface can be seen as bad, though?

    Well, I wouldn't call it bad, but it definitely has much room for improvement. Again, MS has all the money in the world, but they keep coming up with half arsed design attempts (they are improving though).

  • Roamer #131 5 years ago

    Calgon wrote:This is because its necessary to keep things running as smooth, seemless and effecient as possible. It's also constantly maintained and improved as MS feel necessary(they do this quite alot, this tuesday for example). Sony tried to tell us they knew better last gen and so far I'm still not convinced even though it is a huge improvement over PS2s service(this is all thanks to MS leading the way... lets not forget they showed how it should be done, a good thing none the less for Sony followers), to say they've already mached 360s offering without even trying it yet shows some of the EG staff still have some bias(It's alot better than it used to be atleast but do they ever learn?).

    You have yet to say anything at all. Microsoft is charging because it's "necessary to keep things running as smooth, seemless and effecient as possible"? What the heck does that mean? Why would the fact that you pay Microsoft tons of cash each year make your Internet Provider widen your bandwith, or make developers tighten their network code?

    Tell me, why does Online gaming work so well in PC titles then? Or do you believe this is because you annually send 100$ in a sealed envelope to "Microsoft, C/O Internet Gaming gods, Redmond, CA"?

  • cooper #132 5 years ago

    Well said, Roamer.

    Some people talk as if Microsoft had invented online gaming. Besides being able to play online (which is great, but quite an ancient concept), the Live "experience" is pretty pointless to me. IMO scoring achievements or being able to buy Galaga or some in-game item doesn't add any value at all.
    Having to pay to play online makes me feel robbed, just as having to pay €20 for the privilege of charging my gamepad while I play.

    I understand why some people may like all this, but the system is far from perfect.
    Competition is a good thing! (tm)

    EDIT: grammar!
    Edited by 2 at 14/10/06 @ 16:09

  • jiveguy #133 5 years ago

    Maybe I'm just getting old, but the 5 euro a month I pay for the live gold account is a bargain. I know I can just pop in a game and it'll go. No messing around with seperate accounts for voice or individual game subscriptions. Its all there.

    As for the points versus cash, well, I think ms points actually make me buy less on live (I've bought geometry wars and street fighter since launch). I think if they had just let me register a credit card and click a big shiney buy button I would have been more inclined to buy stuff. As it is I have to go through the process of buying points and then using those points to buy what I want. Its just an uneccesary step which I cant be bothered with. Sony are probably doing the right thing to get people to buy more stuff.

  • drumbaby #134 5 years ago

    Sony in "Something designed to compete with Xbox Live actually turning out to be quite good" shocker!

  • jiveguy #135 5 years ago

    Well, I think its best to wait and see. After all this is an article about sony written by Rob Fahey. Large pinches of salt should be kept close at hand at all times. When the service is up and running with actual games and (10's of?) millions of people we'll get to see how good it is then.

  • MadMirko #136 5 years ago

    Yeah Jiveguy. But we need to waste the time until we can really see, so why not with mindless speculation and pointless discussion over stuff that does not even exist yet? :)

    We are gamers who love to talk about our hobby, that's all.

    EDIT: Even though some of us should take our hobby a lot less serious...
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 17:00

  • Calgon #137 5 years ago

    Roamer: You're not putting up much of arguement yourself, you seem to be under the impression that Live is the same as anything before such as PS2 and your average PC game. This is bullshit(youve probably never played live or do not understand the differences), Ive played online PC games and I noticed instantly where the money was spent($2 billion my friend, between Xbox Live and 360 was what was planned to be spent as they geared up to get everything up and running, theyve spent atleast that and thensome you can bet, how can you beleive Sony are able to do this for free and offer the same experience?).

    What was meant by that quote was nothing to do with what you followed up with(you probably knew that), it's to do with the ease of use("seemless", you arent expected to do much, most of that is behind the scenes and done for you, which makes it easier for people like yourself to get playing online), it's to do with how fast you can find a good game with the right conditions and begin playing("smooth";) and it's also to do with the fact that this is a closed network for gaming with a broadband connection a network thats been configured and tweaked to optimise the performance of network gaming, for example hosting on the same connection in most cases lag is less of an issue thanks to Live("efficient";).*you cant always blame the netcode but it is sometimes the cause. In Xbox and 360 Live's favour(for the sake of the effectiveness of Live anyway) we have the fact that most modern PCs have more memory to work with and in some cases faster hardware too*

    Now this is all thanks to how MS have managed to tie in the many features available(optimatch, auto-update-patching, voice chat, invites ect) along with this CENTRALISED online gaming system they've built. The centralisation is what sets it apart from what you were getting at(PC, PS2 and the like). Yes developers provide the games which includes gamecode, netcode and gamplay(duh! I dont think we needed to point that out though did we?... apart from the fact that MS provide good support to help developers with Live enabled games), but MS DO provide the server bandwidth and user frontend; this removes the usual costs from game developers. This was the main reason Xbox had so many more online supported games than any other console has ever had, perhaps this trend will continue(reports already of developers droping online for PS3 games?) perhaps it will be more even this time around but all that matters to me is which is the best service and that is where Sony have ALOT to prove(especially since Xbox Live is already successfull enough to ensure many years of online gaming fun to most people).

    While we are comparing to the PC space why not make a fair comparison and look at a service which is actually close to live(you know offers the same kind of things for a start rather than ignoring what you want to), take a look at this list and notice which service offered is closest to live and how much it is:
    <a href="http://www.gam espyarcade.com/download/">http://www.gam espyarcade.com/download/
    </a>

    *Hint: I'd say founders club... and even then Im still not sure how well it works compared to live, anyone here use it?*
    Edited by 4 at 14/10/06 @ 19:28

  • locky2003 #138 5 years ago

    But where is my LINUX, y little liars?! I just want this promised NETWORK OS and I'll be happy with my Firefox etc w/o your buggy proprietary browsers.

  • Calgon #139 5 years ago

    Bah Im just saying as usual the Sony crowd are speaking to soon, it could well be that as Wonga said: It may be just good enough to convince people which would then in turn force a reaction from MS. Or it could well turn out to be just not as good as people were hoping and clearly behind Xbox Live, which may mean MS dont change anything but I beleive they were planing to do it anyway at some point(they probably have a target to meet before they change the pricing).

    I think MS could lower the price and offer the same thing since they have alot more subscribers than they used to(nobody really knows how much it really costs per person to keep it running MS say: $40-50 per machine... Sony fanboys and some EG staff seem to think it costs nothing which is bullshit as they would have offered it for free well in time for the PS3 launch... use your heads) but if they have to try and offer it for free then something along the line will change and there will be complaints from those who were happy with the way things already are/were.
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 19:03

  • Hughes. #140 5 years ago

    The overwhelming majority of online games on both PS2 and PSP are totally free to play. Any assumption that this will change is based entirely on the fact that 4 years ago MS decided they would charge for something that PC gamers could get for free for many years, and somehow got away with it.

    The history of online gaming is not limited to Live, and its future is not dictated by it either. The standard set for the Playstation brand is online gaming (excluding persistent online worlds of mmorpgs) being free to play, any publisher who would buck that trend would not be well recieved by consumers, or by Sony, unless they were offering something extraordinary, otherwise consumers will ignore their offering or buy a rival title with free play instead.

    There are many people using the PS2 and PSP online, for free, right now. No amount of doomsaying about "there's no such thing as a free lunch" changes that fact. And when the PS3 comes at such a price premium over it's rival, it's a trump card they would be loathe to give away. Consider that 5 years Gold subscription adds £200 cost on top of what PS3 will offer straight out of the box. They call it "choice" I believe.

  • Xerx3s #141 5 years ago

    Roamer: You point is filled with holes.

    Tell me, why does Online gaming work so well in PC titles then

    Because the servers that provide a quality level of xbl are paid for, by gamers. No, servers don't grow on trees even though you might think so.

    And I don't get why ppl are so worked up on it, if you can't afford to spend less than the price of a Big Mac (1,6 €) a month, you really should question yourself if you can afford to buy games.

    Yeah Jiveguy. But we need to waste the time until we can really see, so why not with mindless speculation and pointless discussion over stuff that does not even exist yet? :)

    Heh, cause me 360 is having a field day at ms techsup and there aren't any games on other platform's atm (well, I'm playing Settlers 2 \0/, does that count?).

    But where is my LINUX, y little liars?! I just want this promised NETWORK OS and I'll be happy with my Firefox etc w/o your buggy proprietary browsers.

    Seriously, wtf would you want with a (real) OS on a console? It sounds cool, but what other use does it have? Are you planning to make games with it? Or perhaps use calc or writer?
    And the question is; does sony really want the PS3 to become a central for warez & home-brew (directly competing with their mini game stuff from the shop)? Isn't sony's pov with the psp to lock down stuff like warez amap? The only way I see them implementing a (real) OS is for tax reasons and even then only a seriously locked down version. I'm really looking forward to see how sony is going to handle this as it poses a serious problem.

  • captainrentboy #142 5 years ago

    So many people still congratulating Sony on their move to give free online gaming,sooo many of you still have no idea how smoothly and well it'll all run when it's actually being used by the public.
    I still think it's only fair to lay off of the fact that MS is charging us for Gold accounts until we've actually experienced the PS3'S alternative freebie option.
    Sure if it's released to the public in November and is still being given universal praise for how well it operates/ease of use/and definitely no hidden charges,then we can begin questioning why we're paying a bit for Live.....(Even though it's only like £3.70 a month,but what the hey)

  • Hughes. #143 5 years ago

    It's not a move to give free online gaming, it's been free ever since the BBA was launched 4 years ago.

  • captainrentboy #144 5 years ago

    Ok,in their move to give the all in one online broadband experience through a console....For free!
    I don't think that's been done before,jeeez.
    And don't say the Dreamcast did it,I mean provoide an enjoyable experience :)

  • Hughes. #145 5 years ago

    I doubt it will be perfect, but it really only has to be half as good as Live for people to wonder if £39.99 is worth it. Sony have a habit of over-promising and under-delivering (got that the right way round, Phil?) in this department, but as this report was an actual hands-on experience, mostly free of hyperbole, it gives me a lot more confidence in the set-up than I ever dared have, based on previous experience of what Sony offered in terms of non-game online periphery.

    Like most people tghough, I hope it doesn't break as soon as soon as a few thousand people use it :¬]

    US and Japanese Beta testers FTW!
    Edited by 1 at 14/10/06 @ 21:15

  • SexyBodyBuilderDude #146 5 years ago

    It sounds to me like the Playstation 3 is really going to have a worthless online system. Games like Tony Hawk for the Playstation 3 can't be played online, but the Xbox 360 versions can. The same thing goes for games like Virtua Tennis 3. Games like Dead or Alive 4 on the Xbox 360 can be played online, but Virtual Fighter 5 on the Playstation 3 can't be played online.

    See my point! The Playstation 3 is a CRAPPY online system!!!

  • Scimarad #147 5 years ago

    "But to me the blandness and how empty of detail it all looks is a bit ''meehhh'', especially when it's on on a £425 super console connected to a giant HDTV :/"

    Yeah, but if it is really like the PSP you shove a nice HD backdrop behind it and it looks fantastic:-)

  • JediMasterMalik #148 5 years ago

    @SexyBodyBuilderDude - Naming 2 games which lost online, and one which never had it is hardly a reason to call it a crappy online system is it? Stop trolling and read the article, comment on the article if anything.

  • Xerx3s #149 5 years ago

    /takes it out & swings it around a bit
    /wanders off

  • style #150 5 years ago

    I think people are forgetting that Xbox Live will soon be free. Haven't you heard? A while back, Microsoft acquired Massive, who are specialists in online and in-game advertising. I don't know when and I don't know how, but someday, we will be offered the option of free online gaming, if we choose to accept exposure to online advertisments. I know what Hughes is saying about free online gaming being the true standard, and not subscription-based online gaming, but I own a PlayStation 2, and find its online experience deeply flawed, and nowhere near the quality or smoothness of operation of Xbox Live. I have no problem paying for Xbox Live, as I can have no complaints with the service I have received. Let's see how PS3 online actually performs before we start making wild proclamations about how much of a rip-off Xbox Live is, shall we?
    Edited by 2 at 15/10/06 @ 11:08

  • Xerx3s #151 5 years ago

    Style: What you say there is pure speculation. MS never claimed that it would be free ad based. They did say that they wanted to help dev's implement ad based content. So what is prolly going to happen is MS giving dev's tools to integrate ad based content. That doesn't exclude subscription though.

  • Ihya #152 5 years ago

    "Why don't you have a clear perception? When you go to a foreign country and exchange your money for different currency... Does matter to you how much a dildo costs in your original currency? It's irrelevant, you are trading in the new currency, And you can see the cost of the items in tokens, relative to how much tokens you have in your pocket.
    ignore poster"

    Wonga, it's the same reason why they give you chips in a casino. It is to dissasociate you from the fact you are spending money. It's a tried and tested psychological trick that the gambling industry is built on, but it even goes one better. Not only are you spending non-physical money, you are spending non-physical points.

    Psychology 101

  • style #153 5 years ago

    That's no way around it, the point system sucks. HOWEVER, it is still easy to keep a track of how much you're spending....by keeping track of how much you're spending. It's not really rocket science.

  • bluebird #154 5 years ago

    I don't get why people think this dashboard is really such a great deal. It simply is three things basically:

    - a webshop
    - a media player
    - a matchmaking service between user IP's

    A webshop, MS make good money on that.

    A media player, nothing special.

    That leaves the IP matchmaking.

    I guess people think 360 consoles actually play online using this service. They do not. The service, as with PC's, tells each console the other consoles IP, does some optimizing, presents a nice lobby.

    After you go into the game, the consoles know eachothers IP and it is all P2P. The playing online part does not cost MS server bandwidth. It's the setting up that does, and those are small low bandwidth requests. Of course, with millions of users at the same time, that does add up, but it is nothing spectacular for a company like Sony or MS.

    Take into account the enormous advertisement potential of this dashboard of new media (new games, movies, songs) and the bandwidth for matchmaking and controlling your profile is a fair price to pay for a company that in turn gets so much control and direct feedback from users.

    You really should not be asked to pay for it. And really, a fiver a month, that is a LOT of money for a service that does nothing more than connect you. As I said before, they ask it because they CAN (since you have to pay it without an alternative on consoles).

    As for it being so much easier to use, well duh, of course, it is for a console audience. However that is a matter of software. You write the software once, update it once a while. This software can be considered part of the OS of the console. You pay for it when you buy the console. My opinion is that you should not pay for that on a monthly basis.

    As I said before, it's a totally different kettle of fish for MMO games. Since we're talking multiplayer worlds where the bandwidth DOES go through their servers, the worlds are actively monitored, and content is usually being added throughout the lifetime of the game.

  • jiveguy #155 5 years ago

    Thats a rather simplistic view of the whole thing bluebird. I'm sure the 5 euro (not 5 pounds as you say) a month is being used to pay for more than the datacentre costs.

    Providing support and tools to developers would be one area that immediatly comes to mind. I thought it was very telling when one developer (either the tony hawk guys, or virtua tennis) came out a few weeks ago and said there was no online for their game on the PS3 because they just didn't know how to do it yet. The fact that its in the 360 version would make me assume that its not just because they don't know how to do online multiplayer in general. So are Sony just expecting everyone to do their own thing, and they just provide the basic network libraries to make it work (again, the article is great if you are looking for info on how swish it all looks, but very light on how games will work on the service).

    I guess Sony also get to decrease their bandwidth needs by allowing you to visit any website to download demos, video and music...although this is a pretty big and naive assumption considering their obsession with DRM.

    Jesus, I dont know :)

    If it works, great. I'm not going to complain if microsoft are forced to start offering live gold for free as long as the service standards are maintained. If it doesn't work, I dont think its going to be any big loss to playstation fans who have been happy for years without a decent online service.
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 15:35

  • kangarootoo #156 5 years ago

    "I dont think its going to be any big loss to playstation fans who have been happy for years without a decent online service"

    Whilst I agree with your suggestion that a lot of PS3 fans wouldn't mind too much right now, I not sure how long that will last. Online is about all sorts of things from multiplayer gaming, to downloadable games and content, to user created content (that third one is my personal bet for being "the next big thing";).

    I think it is important for Sony to be able to support all aspects of online effectively. Online is a great way of attracting new customers to gaming. The nature of online means that you can start to provide other kinds of product that are more than just the traditional multiplayer games that historically weren't so appealing to non-gamers.

    With all that new customer potential Sony can't afford (and of course, they already know all this better than any of us) to be identified as the "not online" console. For consumers to view the 360 as "the console to get if you care about online" and the PS3 being the one to get if you don't, would be very damaging in future years. So I'm sure if there are issues affecting their ability to be "just as online" as the 360 (as you mention regarding TH8 for example) they will want to sort them out in the not too distant.

  • MasterThief #157 5 years ago

    @ Wonga

    You hit the nail firmly on the head there buddy. I want to see PROOF that PS3's free online service is equitable to MS'. If that happens, THEN I will begin to question what the Hell I'm paying a Live subscription for. But so far, circumstantial evidence says Xbox Live great, PlayStation Online not so great, if you are to look at how the PS2's online implementation went. That's not to say that PS3's won't be an improvement. But there's no evidence to back such a sentiment up just yet. When we see it, then we can re-draw the lines on the debate. But for now, Xbox Live very much holds the moral superiority.

    And anyway, I no more mind paying for Live than I do for Sky Sports. I already pay a flat sub to Sky TV. But if I want Sky Sports or Movies or whatever - basically, their PREMIUM channels - then I got to pay extra for 'em. How is that any different than paying for broadband, and then paying for online multiplayer? I love Live. I enjoy Live. Live has proven itself a hundred times over, as subscription levels have proved. The burden of alternative proof is in sony's court, not MS'. Let's see what Sony can come up with, and then we'll judge, okay?

  • mattigan #158 5 years ago

    To everyone expressing outrage at Microsoft's audacity at charging £40 a YEAR for the live service, really, if you can't afford to shell out £40 once a year for Live Gold then maybe you should be out doing something more productive with your time, like looking for a better job maybe?

    And another thing, that £40 is the RRP for a years subscription, it's pretty easy to knock at least 50% off of that price if you do a bit of investigation on t'nternet, my years subscription cost me £17.

    Lets put it in perspective here £40 = a night down the pub. That is, if I don't go on the fruit machine (I live in London, £3 a pint is not uncommon)

    :(
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 17:13

  • mkreku #159 5 years ago

    "To everyone expressing outrage at Microsoft's audacity at charging £40 a YEAR for the live service, really, if you can't afford to shell out £40 once a year for Live Gold then maybe you should be out doing something more productive with your time, like looking for a better job maybe?"

    I don't think the problem lies in the ability to pay €50 per year, it's the feeling of paying money for something that ought to be free. Personally, I hate having to first give money to my ISP to be able to play online, then, on top of that, I have to pay money to Microsoft to be able to play my €70 game online. Even if the game is just me and my friend playing tennis against each other! Believe me, there are NO costs for Microsoft to keep those P2P balls flying.

    On the other hand, Sony aren't exactly known to be anything but greedy and DRM obsessed. It sounds all fine and dandy.. until you try it out for yourself. The money has to come from somewhere, and if we buy new horse armour for our Oblivion steeds, the money ends up in Bethesda's pockets, not Sony's. Sony WILL have a big piece of the money cake, the question is just where and when they will bite.
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 17:44

  • miiiguel #160 5 years ago

    Sony is known for hating MP3's ams DiVX formats..., I liked EG to talked about the supported media formats.

    Trgarding MS points, whenever you buy more you get the amout you're paying in your currency on the dashboard...

    Roamer; Online PC gaming as nothing to do with the Live system! The Live systems is an integrated online service, that one of its issues is providing every developer a network with dedicated servers, so the developers don't do online just if they don't want to. It's a private nework run by MS just for you, me and everyone that's willing to pay arround 7 euros per month.
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 18:03

  • mattigan #161 5 years ago

    How do you find your friend online?

    How long did it take to set up your Console for online play?

    What if you fancy playing someone else online when your friend is out, but don't want to get wiped out everytime by some kid that plays the game 18hrs a day, or wind up facing someone that can't manage to return 2 out of 10 of your serves?

    What happens when the next big tennis game comes out and you want to take the multiplayer demo for a spin?

    Fancy a chat while you play?

    Now all these things are quite possible on a PC and will be on the PS3 no doubt, but as far as the 360 goes, you only have to ask yourself "how easy" are all the above to do, they are built right in, seamless, no messing about configuring servers, IP, MTUs, port forwarding or anything else. And that ease of use dosen't happen by accident, it costs money to sort out, and has been done for you.

    That's where the money goes, now as for your statement that these things should be free, sorry, but why? And if you think for one second that Sony are supplying their service out of the goodness of their heart you really need to see a doctor.

    One way or another you WILL be paying for the online service, whether it is in microtransactions a la GTHD, with charged for content making up the majority of actual game content, annoying in game product placement or even a premium on the cost of online games (I notice that no actual game pricing has been confirmed yet). But you will be paying one way or the other, Sony are not a charity, they are a profit making organisation first and foremost, and they plan to profit from this service.

  • MasterThief #162 5 years ago

    "Sony WILL have a big piece of the money cake, the question is just where and when they will bite"

    +1

    At least with Live, it all appears to be relatively transparent. Which is more than I can say for Sony's smoke and mirrors campaign. All you fools who think that online multiplayer gaming on the PS3 is going to be completely free in the Land of Wine and Roses are just...just...being foolish!

  • MasterThief #163 5 years ago

    "One way or another you WILL be paying for the online service, whether it is in microtransactions a la GTHD, with charged for content making up the majority of actual game content, annoying in game product placement or even a premium on the cost of online games (I notice that no actual game pricing has been confirmed yet). But you will be paying one way or the other, Sony are not a charity, they are a profit making organisation first and foremost, and they plan to profit from this service."

    +1

    This comment thread is on FIRE right now!

  • MasterThief #164 5 years ago

    "I don't think the problem lies in the ability to pay €50 per year, it's the feeling of paying money for something that ought to be free. Personally, I hate having to first give money to my ISP to be able to play online, then, on top of that, I have to pay money to Microsoft to be able to play my €70 game online. Even if the game is just me and my friend playing tennis against each other! Believe me, there are NO costs for Microsoft to keep those P2P balls flying."

    So are we to assume that you are not just an anti-Live troll, and that you are consistent in your views and beliefs, right across the board? That you would NEVER even CONSIDER buying a Sky+ box and paying for its installation? Then forking over 'x' amount amount for your digital TV subscription? Then pay an ADDITIONAL 'y' amount just for the pleasure of watching Sky Sports or Sky Movies? Is that fair to say?

    Are all of you that are slating how inequitable £40 a year is saying that the you wouldn't touch Sky+ with a barge pole?

  • Calgon #165 5 years ago

    Ok the Sony crowd simply havent played Live in most cases, they also seem to think they know better despite that... "Xbox-360 owners have no idea they can get the same thing for free on the PC or PS2" ect this is niave because many of the early subscibers to live were already fans of online gaming(like myself, all it took was a free trial given with a game to convince me they have a great service with Live). Lets get one thing clear though there ARE deffinatly server and bandwidth costs as Ive said earlier(its a closed and secure network you log onto live with your account, everything goes through MS's servers at some point and lag is less of an issue than it would be hosting on a standard broadband connection on a similar speced PC for instance*one of the first things I noticed, dodgy net code aside*. Some countries are still to recieve Live support, Portugal will join next month, why would there be any reason for delay if it was as simple as some Sony fans here beleive?), use your heads, why is it that Xbox remains the console with the most games featuring full online support?(its not that developers dont know how to because they do) The console most likely to take that crown is its successor; the 360 which has placed even more emphasis on Online play from the get go. The reason is because devs all run on tight budgets, adding online support DOES cost alot extra if they have to do it alone and fund everything themselves(its the only explanation and history will repeat itself if devs are again burdoned with too much on Sonys PS3 online service... )

    Sony fans should wait and see and stop assuming they know better than everyone else, the majority of Xbox Live users are well aware of their options for online gaming, it simply IS one of the best services available and the cost is NOT all that great considering. Nobody would complain if it was free but then not many of them would switch to an inferior service just because it was free(unless they cant afford it or dont play online much at all... for that we have Live Silver and free trials).
    Edited by 2 at 15/10/06 @ 19:22

  • Xerx3s #166 5 years ago

    Thats a rather simplistic view of the whole thing bluebird. I'm sure the 1,6 euro (not 5 pounds as you say) a month is being used to pay for more than the datacentre costs.

    fixed.

    Believe me, there are NO costs for Microsoft to keep those P2P balls flying.

    Lol? Do you actually have any idea how much servers cost? How much support costs? the overhead costs alone are gigantic and then we aren't even talking about the normal costs. Sorry, but that statement is complete cock and bull.

    And do you think that that 1gig demo that you downloaded last week was free? That noone paid for that? MS obviously has a magic pot with unlimited bandwidth and server space tucked away somewhere.

  • Bates #167 5 years ago

    Phew... this thread stinks of desperate MS fanboys :p

  • mattigan #168 5 years ago

    Well no, it smells a bit more of Sony Fanboys that are able to read the future, Xbox owners have Live "now" and know how good it is and can clearly see it is worth the money, I myself have said that if the PS3 proves better online than the Xbox then I might switch. But when Sony happily pushes the Free word in every bit of PR they do while brushng stealth charges under the carpet (and they will be there, somewhere) and I see you Sony fans lapping it up it just winds me up, am I really the only one who can see what's going to happen?

  • Rambaldi #169 5 years ago

    So, on one hand we have Xboys defending the 11p/day cost of what is widely accepted as a superb online service and framework.

    On the other we have the PStuds licking cream of their face becuse Sony have (a cock hair before launch) announced (another) free online service. None of them have experienced said service and the last one's track record speaks for itself.

    Enough of this childishness: who's for a bit of Virtua Tennis 3 online?
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 19:28

  • Bates #170 5 years ago

    lol, yeah, big time sonyboy me!

    It's pretty funny that you're trying to pretend as though there's some danger of you actually buying a PS3 by claiming that you will 'if the online is better than the 360's', when you KNOW very well it isn't ever going to be though. Nice smokescreen.

    It's pretty clear many of the posters in this thread are agenda spewing Xbots with no intention of ever buying a PS3 anyway, but it is ever so amusing to see them carry on as though this computer games console has them scared shitless :p

    edit: LOL, and as if to prove my point about agenda serving fanboys, here's Jim Davids... er... I mean Rambaldi right on cue!
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 19:29

  • Rambaldi #171 5 years ago

    Jim Davids?

  • KillahSouljah #172 5 years ago

    All this PLAYSTATION 3 news got all the guys at Microsoft and these Xbox Fangirls scared shitless.

  • Steroyd #173 5 years ago

    Enough of this childishness: who's for a bit of Virtua Tennis 3 online?

    That's a bit contradictory isn't it?

    Should have used Tony Hawks as an example the Virtua Tennis is a bit of enigma, Sega is making Virtua Tennis where they're worried they might not be able to implement online in time for it's launch... yet the same damn Sega is pimping their online features in Full Auto 2.

  • Calgon #174 5 years ago

    Haha its funny how the people claiming "the Xbots are scared shitless" are the very ones who are always all over any bit of good news concerning 360 or bad news which they can use... hypocracy? yup I think so.

    Very few Sony articles these days worth reading... first thoughts that spring to mind are "oh god what shit are they talking now then?"(The online service has yet to be seen, like alot of things Sony have been hyping up. Even after this article we still dont know too much about it so whats the fuss about?). They actually beleive MS or any "Xbots" have any concern for this(at worst they get the best service for free if you are talking about the Xbots), no most people are saying its a bit early for the Sony Zombies to be getting all excited.

  • Calgon #175 5 years ago

    Steroyd: Sega are only publishing Full Auto2; PSEUDO Interactive are the devs and wasn't online already in the first game thanks the the 360? ;) Online pretty much has to be in Full Auto2 now or there will be Sony tears shed everywhere.

  • SeesThroughAll #176 5 years ago

    The thread has been ruined. Too much cock waving.

  • Steroyd #177 5 years ago

    Steroyd: Sega are only publishing Full Auto2; PSEUDO Interactive are the devs and wasn't online already in the first game thanks the the 360? ;) Online pretty much has to be in Full Auto2 now or there will be Sony tears shed everywhere.

    Surely Sega could nicely ask Psuedo Interactive to "share" their net code to Sony's online service. :/

  • mattigan #178 5 years ago

    No, I really would switch.

    Most of my mates are Sony through and through, and will probably have PS3s, however, after getting the Xbox I have been seduced by the online play and the ease of use of the live system. If the PS3's online offering doesn't at least come close to the Live system I'm not interested.

    That's not to say that at some point it could catch up and I wont re-assess my position on a PS3 purchase, just at launch, it's not gonna happen.

    BTW, my pro Sony friends are just a little put off by the thought of having to buy cars and tracks in racing games, and the general cost of the system. And won't be getting one at launch.

    Edited by 1 at 15/10/06 @ 20:25

  • MasterThief #179 5 years ago

    I wonder if Sony fanboys like to spit or swallow the juices of Sony's proclamations?

  • dsmx #180 5 years ago

    Well here are 6 links to videos of resistance online that people may find intersting

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=RHOkyzElbVw
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=RHOkyzElbVw
    [/link]
    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=2xKWvK0v3J0
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=2xKWvK0v3J0
    [/link]
    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=N2GVuQYXoxs
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=N2GVuQYXoxs
    [/link]
    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=m1O4uZvBmW0
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=m1O4uZvBmW0
    [/link]
    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=6MAE1vgGP3Y
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=6MAE1vgGP3Y
    [/link]
    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=HkjJpq2dcpw

  • mattigan #181 5 years ago

    Oh come on!

    The banter has been fairly low key so far, there no need to lower the tone that far!

  • MasterThief #182 5 years ago

    I just calls it as I sees it!

    :)

  • babyface #183 5 years ago

    LINUX ON THE PS3? OMG!!!! Or maybe not...?

    Interesting article and mostly good thread... Here's something to add about the Linux question someone asked. I'm quite sure there *will* be Linux on the PS3, but probably for all the wrong reasons... anyway, here's some info about it:

    [link url=http://boardsus.playstat ion.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=60 7835
    ]http://bo ardsus.playstation.com/playstat...[/link]

    OK, here goes... The theory:

    In theory, Sony would want to put Linux as an addition on the PS3, in order to allow hobbyists to write games for themselves, and even share them with others. However, that would require that they adapt their Linux pretty well in order to give access to the PS3 specific hardware. For instance, a very good OpenGL implementation would be necessary should anyone want to write a decent 3D game under Linux.

    Then, you *may* of course use Linux to turn your PS3 into a living-room PC as well, using OpenOffice and the likes on your HDTV to even do some more serious stuff (keep in mind that everything will have to be re-compiled first due to the Cell CPU, but that isn't really an issue on Linux, really). However, I wouldn't be too excited, since a PS3 with only 256 MB isn't such an amazing hardware for today's Linux distros (mind you, I'm just writing this msg on a Linux PC right now, so it's a Tux fanboy writing).

    The reality:

    Well, sounds all pretty, and one could even think Sony is planning to compete with M$ on the field of home PCs as well, but alas... I don't think so. I think their real reason for boasting that "the PS3 is a computer" (which they did on several occasions) is an entirely different one: They have to pay much higher taxes for home entertainment electronics hardware than for PCs in many countries (don't ask me why). A recent report said that Sony would have paid about 50 million $ less on taxes if they could have get the PS2 be declared some sort of PC officially, instead of a game console.

    I believe this is the only true reason for Sony to put Linux on the PS3, and because of that, it will again be a very crippled, mediocre implementation, just as it was on PS2 (I own the PS2 Linux; it did NOT provide any decent access to the hardware, and some - like the multitap adapter, for instance - couldn't be used at all).

    OK, maybe that gave some insight - and my opinion - on the Linux side of the PS3. I do, of course, hope that Sony will prove me wrong..

  • kangarootoo #184 5 years ago

    Well, I guess it couldn't last. Well done children, one screwed thread. Its like bloody Lord of the Flies on here sometimes.

    And everyso often it turns out that one of you is actually in your 20s rather than your early teens and suddenly I understand why so many people view gaming as an immature pastime.

    "I wonder if Sony fanboys like to spit or swallow the juices of Sony's proclamations?"

    /sigh

  • MasterThief #185 5 years ago

    @ dsmx

    Those videos are nice and all. Nothing that Live games aren't doing already, but nice. However, no-one is doubting the ability of online PS3 games to have comprehensive feature sets. The question is about consistency, especially when everything is decentralized, and each developer is basically left to fend for itself.

  • kangarootoo #186 5 years ago

    Ooh, in time it took to write that things have picked up a tiny bit. Me and my big gob.

  • mattigan #187 5 years ago

    Yeah Kanga, just pretend the swallow comment didn't happen and everything will be fine!

    Had a look at the vids, and Live does do most of that stuff TBH, I did like the idea of ingame achievements (Medals & Ribons etc..) unlocking stuff that will be visible to other online players (Skins and the like) so people can instantly see that you are 1337

    That is cool.

  • MasterThief #188 5 years ago

    Look, Xbox Live isn't some mythical service that only Microsoft can provide (although being a software co. certainly gives them a certain level of intrinsic know-how). Most of what makes Live great can and has already been implemented in PlayStation games. The point os consistency. Across the board. Uniformity. Predictability. That's the issue. Obviously, studios with money/time/ambition/patience will make PS3 games that can do online what any 360 game can. But what of the studios without the money/time/ambition/patience?

  • babyface #189 5 years ago

    Stoner, I fully agree; can't understand why someone not interested anyway feels the urge to keep bitching around. However, nothing wrong with some live debate, then...

    I for my part, altough being PlayStation owner for many years, was always extremely sceptical about Sony's foray into the online world. Reading that article makes me feel much more comfortable then, cause it shows that, this time, they apparently do put up some effort to create something decent. I don't care if it's "better" than XBL feature-by-feature or anything; online gaming is not *that* important, IMHO. As long as it's good and stable and userfriendly *enough*, I'm perfectly happy (given that I don't have to pay money for the basic services).

    About the Sony/M$ debate: First I gotta admit that I have a longtime hate for M$ (I work in IT for about 20 years, and have my reasons), and in general, I hate their products. Needless to say that I don't own a 360. Nevertheless, some friends do and I do have to admit that it's probably one of the best end-user products they actually created, and XBL made quite a good impression on me. Still, it came a bit as a surprise to me to read here posts from XBox users, confirming that their online shop can be a pain to use, and that there is no web browser. Come again? This is the company that is owning the web when it comes to webbrowsers, or not? And the remarks about the not-too-user-friendly shop just confirmed that M$ needs a gentle kick in their behind from time to time before they start to implement some serious improvements again (proof: think IE would have tabbed browsing by now without the likes of Firefox doing it first?).

    So, in other words, every 360 owner should look forward to some competition from the PS3 online service, cauze it will only help to force M$ to improve theirs as well.

    One other thought concerning PS3 online play: I wonder if Sony will ever start to use their PC online game branch to create stuff for the PS3? Everquest, for instance, would be a good starting point to create something along the lines of WoW for PS3, and Planetside - altough not a very special shooter in itself - is at least the only massively-multiplayer-shooter I know so far. They should really do something with that...

  • Hughes. #190 5 years ago

    Wow, I left a fairly informative and intelligent debate with some great ppl in favour of Live, and making good points, then a bunch of MS stooges show up and froth themselves up into a wank-sweat.

    Live, great piece of work. To someone who doesn't live and breathe online gaming, it looks expensive. (And the "Get a better job" argument mattigan uses is every bit as arrogant as Sony's saying people should save for PS3 that had so many Sony-haters up in arms)

    Sony's online offerings to date have been piecemeal, some good, some poor, but free for the last 4 years (although there are still people in this thread acting like those years, and the many many years of PC gaming, never happened), and no reason whatever to believe that will change.

    For those who like to dip in and out of online gaming, PS3 is the way to go. £40 quid a year when you maybe fancy playing only once or twice a month is nobodies idea of value. For those wanting a more cohesive experience it seems likely Live will stay superior (although how much so remains to be seen).

    However, as I stated, if Sony have got a more consistent system this time, for free, the price of a Gold Live account will look more expensive to those of us who aren't playing online every day.

    Not for one second do I doubt the value of Live to those who praise it in this thread, and not for a second would I think that they represent the gaming public at large. A generalisation, maybe, but I've read a fair few people in the forums who are going to let their Gold account lapse once it's up.

    MT, Calgon, Xerxes, the only people you're covincing is each other, and you make 360 owners look every bit as bad as KillahSouljah makes those of us who want a PS3. And Calgon, you state all the Sony news is boring, but you always seem to be on hand to talk about it length? And in frequently in highly tedious detail. For a console you are so consistantly negative about, and which you claim has no articles worth reading, you seem to read a lot of them, and expend a great deal of type on the subject.

  • JediMasterMalik #191 5 years ago

    @babyface - 100% agree!

  • foamy #192 5 years ago

    babyface:

    "is at least the only massively-multiplayer-shooter I know so far."

    Huxley, for Xbox 360.

  • babyface #193 5 years ago

    foamy:

    OK, the only massively multiplayer shooter *in existence and played for some time now*... ;-) Anyway, didn't know about Huxley. Looks interesting... one more reason for Sony to do something about it. SONY YOU HEAR ME? I guess not...

  • AusFreelancer #194 5 years ago

    Yeah I think Nth Korea shouldn't be sanctioned by the UN........If they don't get free online THEY'LL NUKE US ALL!!!!!!!!!!

  • Calgon #195 5 years ago

    Hughes. No lets be fair here it's certainly not the case, I dont comment on all that many PS3 articles(although the last few months Ive posted in more than I usually do and for some reason some of them show up on the 360 section... perhaps EG like to stir things up I dont know), it's just that when I do Sony fanboys can be extremely defensive. For instance Ive said what many Live users have already, that the subscription cost is money well spent, the only negative thing Ive said that its FAR to early to assume PS3 will offer an equal service for free(its not likely and if it does MS may follow suit which might not be such a bad thing). I have thrown in some positive comments in where its deserved as I usually do(it is looking alot better than what was available on the PS2 at the very least). Theres not been alot of news regarding the PS3 online service apart from what they are aiming for so this was one of the odd PS3 articles that caught my eye. Sony fanboys are feeling very insecure lately but I guess that understandable, I've yet to buy a next gen console but Ive pretty much already made up my mind now having seen whats on offer from all sides.

    Let us think of the fun we will have next gen and cheer up a bit though aye?(hopefully the wait is almost over for Sony fans... I think thats what has alot of them so grumpy and trolling the "Xbot" sections day in day out)
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 00:31

  • Hughes. #196 5 years ago

    Fair do's old chap, I suppose the other comments your own found themselves among may have coloured how I read them. I've got plenty of time for a lot of 360 owners on here, and the debate seemed to have dropped to an unpleasant level after the decent tone last night.

    I'm really hoping this generation being a closer match will lead to good things for all concerned, a better online service from Sony than the patchy efforts of last time, and maybe a price cut for those with Gold subs (I'm sure there's room for one, without damaging the service).

  • bluebird #197 5 years ago

    Hmm looked again, I meant 5 euro (Dutchie here), but seems it's more like 4 euro a month for gold..

    Anyway I have a 360 myself, and I do enjoy Live. My judgement of bandwidth cost versus shop etc is based on my work as IT manager at an online business myself. I'm not denying there is bandwidth, upkeep, service and support cost. A more nuanced statement would be that I think that a Live-like service business model could sustain itself without a subscription fee on the basis of the shop and promotion alone. I reserve the right to be utterly wrong ;)

    Some good arguments here though. Guess we'll know when we know, but that's so boring :-)

    On the argument of MS paying for the downloads, of course the publishers of those games pay for that bandwidth, it is promotion of their games after all. Well I don't know the business model of Live, but I would expect this, unless bandwidth is very cheap for them (bandwidth is getting increasingly cheap after all, esp when you scale up)

  • Scimarad #198 5 years ago

    Are you people not even the slightest bit embarrassed? You have somehow managed to turn an interesting discussion into what is basically a childish name calling competition. All this does is highlight the people who really need to be ignored...

    These are the people who are considered gamers these days - Anyone depressed?

  • mkreku #199 5 years ago

    Xerx3s: "Lol? Do you actually have any idea how much servers cost? How much support costs? the overhead costs alone are gigantic and then we aren't even talking about the normal costs. Sorry, but that statement is complete cock and bull."

    P2P stands for Peer-to-Peer. What that means is that no Microsoft server is needed. It's just two computers connecting directly (in the case of a game of tennis) where the game itself works as a server and a client at the same time. Trust me, on a Peer-to-Peer network there IS no extra cost for Microsoft.

  • Xerx3s #200 5 years ago

    It's pretty clear many of the posters in this thread are agenda spewing Xbots with no intention of ever buying a PS3 anyway, but it is ever so amusing to see them carry on as though this computer games console has them scared shitless :p

    You never seem to fail to entertain me. Thx. \0/

    Surely Sega could nicely ask Psuedo Interactive to "share" their net code to Sony's online service. :/

    Well no, just because sega publishes it, doesn't mean that they will get all code. It depends on the contract. In the programming business, your better off holding your cards close to your chest, especially against friends.

    I wonder if Sony fanboys like to spit or swallow the juices of Sony's proclamations?

    Yeh, let's make this thread 1000+, shall we? ¬_¬

    Thx DSMX! Finally something usefull out of this thread. Nice telly. :D

    EDIT: I just saw all of them and it looks ALOT better than what I originally saw. The online system looks great (good to see that they payed attention to H2). This is exactly what ppl need for convincing, not vague promises. So when was this game out again?

    Hughes: Why? For being critical? In think that if you go back to this thread, you will find that I will be pretty much dead on. Services cost money, someone will pay in some way. A full blown OS on a console is something that is very hard (not impossible) to implement and will have complications.
    If you don't believe that, fine, I really don't care. If that makes me a fanboy in your eyes, I would suggest that you take a good look in the mirror.
    I am critical, yes. I am critical to those that make claims while they have not proven themselves in those fields. Calling me what you call me for that says more about you than me really (especially because there have been lot's of 'xbots' & '$$$' flying around and you happen to pick out 2 or 3 comments that are supported by the news (GTHD or what it is called i.e.).

    Hmm looked again, I meant 5 euro (Dutchie here), but seems it's more like 4 euro a month for gold..

    1,6 p/m by de V&D. \0/
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 08:31

  • captainrentboy #201 5 years ago

    I don't get why 360 owners would actually be ''scared shitless'' anytime soon,it's such a strong term to use just because there's a new console coming out.
    What exactly should they be scared about?Is that they've had their next gen console for over a year before the competition finally arrives,is it all the great looking games that will be coming out over the next year,some exclusive and some not but looking great none the less,or is it the hd-dvd drive out in time for chrimbo that costs a lot less than most thought it would.
    Silly,silly statement to make :/

  • mattigan #202 5 years ago

    I'm not arrogan, I was just making the point that no one else seems to be making when moaning about Live Gold charges.

    Quite simply £40 isnt a lot of money, and if you're that concerned about spending £40 after you've alteady spent £280 on a console, £50 on a game, £60 on a wifi connector, agreed to pay £15-£30 a month for broadband, then maybe you should find another hobby.

    Oh, and to those complaining that they should't have to pay more after paying their ISP "just to play online games", yeah right, it's just for games is it, you dont go on the internet, download music and movies, or post on Eurogamer using your home connection do you? No it's just for games I'm sure.

  • miiiguel #203 5 years ago

    all in all sooner or later everyone will have a;MS entertainment machine... it's bound to happen like your Windows box there... at your place....

    ...in you work
    ... at your friend's
    damn!!! they're everywhere!!!!

    matt: you get Live connection on the 360 without paying anything, you just pay if you want to play online. About your last paragraph, not to say that ypu're contradicting yourself, but appart from that let me know how many posts to EG you did from your PS# a year from now, if not later...
    I also got a tip: buy games online for your future 360, they range from 17.99 quid to 39.99, I own 26 games I not one costed more than the later, yes..., I have some special editions as well...
    I bet you'll continue to use that trustworthy Microsoft Windows box of yours, 'cos you do have one don't you ?

    In my case at my PSP, the fingers of one hand are enough to count how many times I used its browser..., talk about a flopped device...
    Edited by 4 at 16/10/06 @ 10:39

  • spongebob #204 5 years ago

    PS3 might bomb but it sure is the most exciting console of the three if you count how many comments it sprungs everytime a text about it runs on EG.

  • mattigan #205 5 years ago

    miiiguel, will probably be able to count the posts to EG from any console on one hand. And am quite aware that you have to pay to play online, I can spell my name, do joined up writing, and also know how to suck eggs thanks you very much :p

    I've Never bought a full priced game since I've been able to order online, I'm not stupid, well not that stupid! ;)

    Just quoting RRP as that what everyone always quotes for a Live subscription, got mine for £17.

    I actually think that the PS3 will be sucessful - SHOCK HORROR!!!

    But refuse to sell out to Sony, well untill what they offer is worth the cost of my measly soul to me. So probably early 2008 then!

  • miiiguel #206 5 years ago

    matt: chill mate I didn't want to sound agressive, it's the language thing maybe, that might have given the wrong imopression as english is only my 3rd (and last) known language, beeing portuguese the 1st, Unix the 2nd. ;)

    I also think that PS3 will do good - as PSP did, although nobody uses the thing..., as nobody buys games for it, and UMD's dead as a media format's concern - but not because it's a good buy, it's just because it's a hip brand, you know..., it's like the girlfriends/wifes nagging us to buy an LCD/Plasma, it's cool..., it doesn't have better image than a CRT, but it looks good... .
    360 has a price for the service it delivers that no other device can cope, imo, it's a bit sad to say (at least for me, I don't use Windows at all!), but it's true. They've got the deepest pockets, they deliver... .
    They anounced 360's launch day to 20 November in the US, and 2nd of December to Europe one year ahead, and guess what ? They delivered!
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 11:52

  • mattigan #207 5 years ago

    I'm only messin, no real offense intended. I just enjoy a bit of banter as much as the next man :)

  • tonynibbles #208 5 years ago

    @Wonga: Why don't you have a clear perception? When you go to a foreign country and exchange your money for different currency... Does matter to you how much a dildo costs in your original currency? It's irrelevant, you are trading in the new currency, And you can see the cost of the items in tokens, relative to how much tokens you have in your pocket.

    Yes but I'm not in a foreign country. I'm sat at home in front of the TV.
    I personally prefer to see clearly, the cost in pounds in front of me. I know what I'm spending and I don't have to start thinking in conversions. Its real money.

  • dsmx #209 5 years ago

    @ Xerx3s

    At least 1 person looked at the videos and appreciated what ps3 online could be like, still the question is will all games be like that. At least we know that insomniac have set the bar for what ps3 online should be like...

  • miiiguel #210 5 years ago

    I think the system helps, as you cannot make a mistake of buying something that you actually didn't want to spend your money on.
    I think the Sony's wallet "thing" does this also, but in the end it's the same thing.
    In my case every quarter I buy 1000 points, when it's spent, no more treats..., got to wait for the next one.

  • dadrester #211 5 years ago

    can't be arsed to read the comments as i suspect half of them might be sony V's microsoft inspired, but it sounds promising. I think the way online is handled on PSP (when it is... too few games!) is pretty good. there are quite a few free demos etc and it's really easy to set up and use (whether for browsing or multiplayer). one of the major things that encouraged me to buy cross platform games on xbox rather than ps2 or gamecube were live features (namely multiplayer). I don't have a 360 yet but the whole store thing sounds pretty cool to me. if sony can offer, essentially, the same service, but for free that'd be awesome.

    my main concern would be regarding the way multiplayer was set up, especially if sony aren't putting as strict a guidelines on standards as microsoft do, but looking at the consistent way the psp handles it and the amount of copycatting sony appear to be doing with xbox live, i'm not too worried.

  • JohnLee #212 5 years ago

    This article is useless. I already knew that the PS3 uses the same interface as the PSP, that the basic online functions will be free and that there will be micro-transactions through Sony's online store.

    Also, the author fails to mention that third-party companies, such as Capcom and Rockstar, will still have the option of charging for online gameplay.
    And anyone who actually believes that the third parties won't charge for online functions is just plain naive.

    Also, there is mention in the article of the fact that on the PS3 a person can have more than one user profile. So what. You can do the exact same thing on the Xbox 360, but in the article it is mentioned as if it is some kind of revolutionary feature.

    I'm calling out the faults of this piece because I myself am a video game journalist, and I would've expected this article to be more informative and accurate than it is.

    Sony likes to tell everyone that they are on the cutting edge of gaming. But from the guide button on their controller that they ripped rght from Microsoft to the six-axis tilt function that Nintendo had way before Sony ever had thought of their own implementation, Sony is a company that takes the ideas of others and claim them as their own.

  • old_skool #213 5 years ago

    Good article in general . Including a browser does add a security concern but it does open the console up to alot more possibilities .
    One point of note though , people have a concern about how can this service be free ?Well , Google and Yahoo are free and they're not dying are they .It's what economist will call 'seen economics' and 'unseen economics' .'Seen economics' is basically where the effects are clearly seen , you have a product , someone buys it and you make money .'Unseen economics' is you give something away ( free ) , you get people to use the product , the product that you sold is a proxy to other products that people might buy and that's how you make money .The unseen way works better because more people now use your product , they have access to alot of other goods and they have more money to spend on other products because the initial product is free .It's an old concept , certainly not 21st century stuff .Yes , yes so XboxLive isn't expensive but do concede it's money that you could have spent somewhere esle ?

    Anyway , if the PNP will be free ( for multiplayer/chat/video/etc ) then I'd expect Microsoft to soon lower or abolish Gold .It'll be interesting how Microsoft responds .

    It all sounbs very promising for Sony , in the end all I really care about is stability and lag .

  • old_skool #214 5 years ago

    Good article in general . Including a browser does add a security concern but it does open the console up to alot more possibilities .
    One point of note though , people have a concern about how can this service be free ?Well , Google and Yahoo are free and they're not dying are they .It's what economist will call 'seen economics' and 'unseen economics' .'Seen economics' is basically where the effects are clearly seen , you have a product , someone buys it and you make money .'Unseen economics' is you give something away ( free ) , you get people to use the product , the product that you sold is a proxy to other products that people might buy and that's how you make money .The unseen way works better because more people now use your product , they have access to alot of other goods and they have more money to spend on other products because the initial product is free .It's an old concept , certainly not 21st century stuff .Yes , yes so XboxLive isn't expensive but do concede it's money that you could have spent somewhere esle ?

    Anyway , if the PNP will be free ( for multiplayer/chat/video/etc ) then I'd expect Microsoft to soon lower or abolish Gold .It'll be interesting how Microsoft responds .

    It all sounds very promising for Sony , in the end all I really care about is stability and lag .

  • old_skool #215 5 years ago

    Sorry for the double post

  • babyface #216 5 years ago

    @miiiguel

    "matt: you get Live connection on the 360 without paying anything, you just pay if you want to play online. "

    Is that true? Confuses me. I mean, if I have a *game* console with which I go online, it is most likely that I actually want to play. That's what the console is for, in the first place. So how does it make sense of having free services, but no playing included? I mean, it's clear that one has to pay for games like WoW with heavy server-side infrastructure, support etc., but for the casual P2P-games? Do you have to pay for that on XBL? Is that the difference between XBL silver and gold?

  • Hughes. #217 5 years ago

    @JohnLee

    Also, the author fails to mention that third-party companies, such as Capcom and Rockstar, will still have the option of charging for online gameplay.
    And anyone who actually believes that the third parties won't charge for online functions is just plain naive.

    Another person in deep denial of the last 4 years of free-to-play online gaming Sony offered. "It'll cost ya! Because I said so! Only a fool would say different!"

    I'm calling out the faults of this piece because I myself am a video game journalist, and I would've expected this article to be more informative and accurate than it is.

    As opposed to the selective ignorance of your own addition to the thread? Like this...

    Sony likes to tell everyone that they are on the cutting edge of gaming. But from the guide button on their controller that they ripped rght from Microsoft to the six-axis tilt function that Nintendo had way before Sony ever had thought of their own implementation, Sony is a company that takes the ideas of others and claim them as their own.

    Sony had a patent for a motion sensing controller back in 2004, before anyone had heard of Revolution or a Wii. As for other "ripped off" ideas, Two analogue sticks instead of one? Totally unprecedented, well done to MS and Ninty on that front! consoles that stand vertically instead of sitting flat? how original of MS and Nintendo, I wonder where they got that idea?

    They ALL rip each other off, get over it.
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 17:50

  • babyface #218 5 years ago

    Oh, never mind, it is just like that... Just found out myself from the XBL homepage. Shouldnt' ask so quickly sometimes if the info is just around the corner...

  • Xerx3s #219 5 years ago

    PS3 might bomb but it sure is the most exciting console of the three if you count how many comments it sprungs everytime a text about it runs on EG.

    Unless it hits 1250+, we are not even mentioning it... ;p

  • HornedGod #220 5 years ago

    Disc said: "Mox: Quazal, Xfire and Gamespy are all supplying frameworks for developers to use. It's useful if a developer is creating titles for PC and PS3 and want to use the same libraries. The 3rd party libraries on PS3 will all build upon Sonys libraries."

    Incorrect, either third party network API can be almost 100% independent from Sony's libs. All that a developer using a 3rd party APIs has to adhere to is to make sure that any profile restrictions setup on an NP account are correct read and passed over to the 3rd party API.

    As a PS3 NP programmer I can't confirm or deny anything due to NDAs, but there are parts of the NP setup that make me cry. Programmers working on the 360 and PS3, daily give praise to Microsoft's excellent XDK and mutter curses at Sony's SDK.

  • miiiguel #221 5 years ago

    babyface: As the article says, and it's quite true, the majority of gamers don't feel compeled to play the usual brainless death-matches and clones, all in all it resumes to run arround killing each other with no plot, I include myself in that group. Although I have a Gold subscription, because to be honest I don't have many places to spend my decent sysadmin wage, as I have no kids, and I'm a bit of an ermit, but I rarely play those kind of games. What I do like is to download the trailers form TGS; E3 X06,etc., compare myself to my friends on the leaderborads, buy stuff from Marketplace, talk with friends from allover the world, and for that I didn't need the Gold subscription.
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 18:27

  • Xerx3s #222 5 years ago

    As a PS3 NP programmer I can't confirm or deny anything due to NDAs, but there are parts of the NP setup that make me cry. Programmers working on the 360 and PS3, daily give praise to Microsoft's excellent XDK and mutter curses at Sony's SDK.

    Network programmer? If so, care to talk a bit more about what you can reveal? I should be far better reading material than what some other PS3 online explaining (with inside knowledge) ppl posted here.

  • JohnLee #223 5 years ago

    To Hughes

    I'm in deep denial? Okay, first of all, Sony's online "service" on the PS2 was a joke. The only game that had true online capability was Final Fantasy XI, and SquareEnix CHARGED a monthly fee for that game. So how, exactly, is that the "free-to-play online gaming Sony offered."

    And about the patent that Sony had on motion-sensing in 04: That patent was NOT for six-axis functionality, and issuing a patent and actually implementing the technology are two very different things. You don't find it at all suspicious that Sony only put the motion function into their controller two weeks before E3?

    Maybe you should do a bit more research before attempting to come at me with both barrels blasting, unless you want to get schooled every single time.

  • miiiguel #224 5 years ago

    What I still can't cope with is how in hell am I going to have a 3-hour gaming session if I must be waving my arms ?
    Must I start doing some jogging ?

  • HornedGod #225 5 years ago

    Well, Sony's own network system will be not even be up to the specs and standards of Xbox Live when it first launched. There is one major feature which they had early on but removed due to server overload concerns. When you learn what it is you will shake your head and wonder what the hell they were thinking.

    Expect rampant cheating in Sony NP (Network Platform, Sony's own API) games. This ties into leaderboards, which are going to be very basic to begin with.

    Some of the APIs contain functionality that others don't, for example, invites.

    The fact that you can't read messages in-game (as stated in the article), is a pain.

  • Hughes. #226 5 years ago

    @JohnLee

    Fact 1 : Games that you play against other people online ARE online games. Setting your own weasel worded defintion of "true online capability" to rule out anything except mmorgps, is a pathetic atempt to make your factual failure stand up to scrutiny. What's more, your chosen example of Final Fantasy XI required 360 owners to pay a SUPPLEMENTAL charge over and above the Gold subscription, so a worse example of the difference between Sony's online efforts and Live you could not have picked.

    Fact 2 : Quite right, the patent was for a technology a great deal MORE like the Wii-mote than Sixaxis, and yet when "ripping off" Nintendo they came up with a very different solution, which you seem to believe appeared magically 2 weeks before E3 with no developement time whatever.

    If this is your idea of "schooling" I sincerely hope you're not involved in the teaching proffession.

  • JohnLee #227 5 years ago

    There are many people who are becoming excited about the announcment from Sony that the online capabilities of the PS3 will be free. But you might want to hold onto your elations until you know all the facts. The only part of the online service that will be free is the web browser. While Sony has stated they will not charge for online play in their first-party games, they are leaving it up to the third-parties as to whether or not they want to charge for online multiplayer in their own games.
    This is something that still confuses a lot of people, and I'm not sure if it's going to become any clearer once the PS3's online network is up and running in November.
    Also, microtransaction charges will still apply to all games no matter who makes them. Sony's claim that the online functions are free is only a half-truth, and it may be something that both they and gamers may regret. For instance, the $50 a year charge of Xbox Live is an all-encompasing fee for online play, with the exception of an MMO like Final Fantasy XI. But with all of the potential charges that the third parties could dream up, a person may end up spending much more than $50 if they play a lot of online games. We'll have to wait and see how all this turns out, so until then here's hoping that Sony's online strategy is a good one.

  • Hughes. #228 5 years ago

    That's all true enough. I'm no fan of the microtransactions climate that is on the rise, and there will certainly be costs there, for those who opt for them. As for third parties charging for online play, I've discussed that earlier in the thread. Throughout the last 4 years of, admittedly patchy offerings, the overwhelming majority of online content was free to play, it still is, and it is on the PSP too (which appears to have been the testbed for PS3). Believing it will remain mainly free is based on plentiful experience, not hope or naiveté.

  • old_skool #229 5 years ago

    I can't understand why people say that online play won't be free or how it can't be free ( at least for 1st party games ) , microtransactions is another kettle of fish .And no one is forcing you to buy horse armour btw .

  • JohnLee #230 5 years ago

    TO HUGHES

    I can see your point. It's very clear that over the past few years all of the console manufacturers have ripped one idea or another from each other. That fact is not lost on me. And that is the reason that I'm sick of Sony claiming that they are so absolutely cutting edge when compared to Nintendo and Microsoft. They have actually said: "We are the true innovaters of the next generation." But in reality, it's Microsoft that had the first fully-realized online gaming presence. No, the Xbox 360 doesn't have a web browser, but I also have to question whether or not that really matters. And no, Xbox Live isn't perfect, but there has been no evidence so far that Sony's online service will be any better.
    And I am not in any way trying to say that Nintendo revolutionized motion-sensing capabilities.
    In fact, I feel that the more a game can suck you in and make you forget about the controller in your hands, the better, but Nintendo seems to be taking the opposite approach.

    I can certainly see your points, Hughes, and I'd appreciate if you didn't try to completely discredit mine.

  • mattigan #231 5 years ago

    But what about horse armour sponsored by Coca Cola, that makes your horse invunerable to arrows. that everyone else online has got, so you can't compete without it?

    That is an extreme example I know, but similar things could be planned to generate extra the revenue required to run these free services.

  • old_skool #232 5 years ago

    @mattigan
    I think the point still stands , no one is forcing you to buy anything :-/

  • mattigan #233 5 years ago

    Fair point, it's just that Sony have previous for "feature slip" after they've anounced all the wonderful things their new product will be capable of with it's eyes closed, and I always get the feeling that they are being "economical" with the truth when they start previewing new product.

    I know that this is basic PR, and they all do it but, I don't know, something about the way Sony has done it in the past and seems to be doing the same thing now just seems particularly underhanded to me.

  • mattigan #234 5 years ago

    Then again, it could all turn out to be true, which would be surprising. And good news all round, as MS would have to up their game too, and we all would be winners!

  • Yossarian #235 5 years ago

    Penny Arcade nailed this today:

    "Scouring the web on the heels of the Eurogamer PS3 article, it's been intriguing watching (and sensing) the momentum shift to Sony's horse. Based on what we actually know, I'm not sure it's deserved. But the arguments are so visceral that you can't defuse them that way.

    Sony claimed that their service would be both better than Live, and free, but it's discernable immediately that - for most gamers - being free makes it better, automatically, independent of the offered functionality. The actuality is a good deal more complex than that, but the position can be expressed with such elegance. Let us suppose

    Console life cycle = 4 years
    1 year Xbox Live service - ~$50
    4 x 50 = $200, or the Price Difference Between the 360 and the PS3.

    There's really nothing to say to that. We've discussed the idea here on the site as it relates to micropayments - that the difference between paying no money for something and paying some money for something isn't a thing you can measure. It isn't like the difference between three dollars and four dollars, let's say. It's the difference between oblivion and infinity - but that kind of imagery isn't even necessary for this exercise. You can simply aggregate it out to the life of the system, watching with horror while - as though in time-lapse footage - a tiny hand zips in and our of your wallet each month, his clutch bursting with cash.
    Well, not bursting. It's like Four Bucks. But, yeah. You can't minimize it rhetorically. It's real money.

    Comparing each company's scheme for knitting together online communities isn't really an apples to apples thing - with Sony, online is implemented, with Microsoft, online is a shell-level assumption that runs through every application, a potent distinction. It doesn't really matter. I like that there is such a thing as a "Gold Account" that can be revoked based on player behavior. It doesn't matter. Microsoft needs to respond to this. They need to respond to the browser thing, too, even if it's absolutely unimportant and a departure from the whole Goddamn argument.

    Eurogamer had a lot to say about Sony's online store, and I haven't seen it, so I don't know. But it served to highlight what a haunted, wretched warren the Xbox Live Marketplace is. That is not how we arrange content on an otherwise world-class service. I always emerge from it gasping for fucking air, having downloaded the first file I saw. I'm always slightly afraid that whatever lives in there will find its way out.

    These two machines will be improved monumentally by the competition, and we'll see the benefit in a period of months. My guess would be that Microsoft has the development agility to stay a step ahead, but when Sony was roused by PSP homebrew community they responded with frightening alacrity. The game which sits above the ones we play - historically almost naval, in its pace - is more fascinating than ever, this time around."

  • babyface #236 5 years ago

    Amen!

    :-) Well said!

  • BartonFink #237 5 years ago

    Great post Yossarian and they have definately nailed most of it firmly on the head (even if it is Penny Arcade)

    Sony having a good (or even great) service will definately kick MS into action. A MCE like interface perhaps?
    Edited by 1 at 16/10/06 @ 23:36

  • Penguinzoot #238 5 years ago

    Yep, good stuff Yossarian. Not sure I really understand the oblivion to infinity stuff, but hey. Seems like a good point to end the thread.

    / turns off the light and closes the door quietly.

  • JediMasterMalik #239 5 years ago

    He's saying you can't quantify the difference between Oblivion (total destruction) and infinity (neverending...something). In the sameway you cannot quantify the difference between something Free and something which costs money. Not sure why he used that analogy though, I can easily quantify it...$50/year. :p

  • Carrybagma #240 5 years ago

    JediMasterMalik, you are quite certain that whatever games you play online with your PS3, they'll all be free and the yearly total will not approach anything like $50?

    Did Sony announce that all on-line gaming will be free, and I missed it?

  • thekittenofterra #241 5 years ago

    Well, I have some things to say.

    Frist of all, Free isn't always better, ands this is Sony were talking about.
    Expect to be able to only use a specific copy of your game per account ect.
    Depending on how/if/when Sony screws up and does what DRM did to the music
    industry, to the video game industry. OR not, this is speculation. Its unrealeased, and Sony has been disappointing lately, but they might actually save face. Hopefully...


    Anyhow...

    This is how I see it. Microsoft will charge $50 per year for their AWESOME service, and I know, I have it. Sony will up the compatition, something that makes Microsoft have a product worth using (look at internet explorer? It gets better when threatened, and this happens with all of their products).

    Sony, well, they will hopefully make something on par with Xbox Live. That is not my concern though.........

    I am worried about individual game charges. MMOs don't count.

    I don't really thing Sony is gonna charge boku for their First Party Stuff...

    But Sony having First Party? They are known for the Third Party stuff...

    And thats wear the charges come in...

    $5 for EA Sports per month, $3 for F.E.A.R per month, $7 for that premo shooter that just came out per month, $12 for those "Free Downloads" and many others.

    What? Only gonna get games that amount to $23 bucks a year? Thats where the true reason why Xbox Live shines comes in...

    Cheaters. Free accounts mean more cheaters. With Xbox Live, that cheating could get your Halo 2 Live account shit listed. Or that racism could lose your whole account, gamer points in all.

    I just hope Sony has something up their sleave.

  • Penguinzoot #242 5 years ago

    thekittenofterra -

    I'm sure Sony has already considered all of the possible ramifications of their network play design and implementation. Were we not told that PS3 was designed to be online capable, right from the beginning?

    In-game notifications. Hmm ...

  • Steroyd #243 5 years ago

    Cheaters. Free accounts mean more cheaters. With Xbox Live, that cheating could get your Halo 2 Live account shit listed. Or that racism could lose your whole account, gamer points in all.

    I just hope Sony has something up their sleave.

    An IP lockout?
    Works for Forums... most of the time.

    People need to realise that XBL yearly income is nothing compared to Microtransactions.

    Using the Xbox's figures 2 million subscribed to XBL at $50 each that's $100 million a year.

    Here's a neat trick providing that the MT's are actually worth buying say $4 a pop that same 2 million would provide $8 million revenue from that one Microtransaction from that one game alone, and very quickly if devs play their cards right, that $100 million a year MS gets from subscriptions is pocket change compared to MT's.

    It's most likely why Sony is going to re-sell their old games over the service as does Nintendo (which people fail to mention is also offering free online gaming :/ ), and by offering free online gaming is like free advertisement to those Microtransactions like those Gap or L'Oreal commercials.

    That's my take on it, but Sony is going to have to be strict with their own MT's for it to work, atm devs are abusing the system. :'(

  • dadrester #244 5 years ago

    the amount of people who are just going to download the odd old ps1 game they fancied at the time but never got round to buying, or just to see what the downloads service is going to be like will be quite high, i'd guess. same as live arcade. i'd guess the amount of people that have downloaded at least one live arcade title would probably equal if not outnumber the amount of gold subscribers. anyone have any official stats?

  • Inflatable #245 5 years ago

    There's so much talk about Sony's online system, but I've nowhere seen it in action yet, not even at Sony presentations.. So close to launch that makes you wonder.. If it's up & running, why aren't they showing it to us? It would remove a lot of doubts.. Now they are only feeding doubts by not showing anything..

  • #246 5 years ago

    I find it odd that so many people (or maybe just the same ones over and over again) are worried about developers charging their own price to play games (except MMOGs, of course). With the creation of XBL (and thus the concept of a unified matchmaking/chat lobby/friends list, etc.) developers don't have to worry as much about how to create an online service (by 'service' I mean matchmaking & lobbies and basics, not servers to host games). Shouldn't that then, drive developing costs down? Obviously as programming experience is gained on a certain system development costs go down. So now even the online connection is basically part of the system itself. So once you learn how to make a game connect to it once, you don't have to keep rethinking it. Thus, development costs will go down. So why would developers/publishers charge players to play their games online? If they're really trying to offer the best deal to the customer, they wouldn't. It's been free for every non-MMO game I've ever played on my computer and most of those development companies had to create their own in-game browsers (of course you could use gamespy if you wanted for a lot of them but it sucked big time). As for companies offering a service for free and providing a lot of support for it I look in one direction: Guild Wars. It's free, it's got tech support, patches often, adds content often enough to not be boring. On the other hand, it's not a perfect example because I do realize that NCSoft makes plenty of other MMO games that it does charge monthly fees for and I imagine costs are shared.


    On the whole cost of anything that offers XBL features in one place:

    While I don't agree with paying for an all-in-one online matching/lobby service like XBL, I can see the arguments people are making for its cost. However, what I don't understand is how 360 games are costing $60 when they launch if the developers are getting help from Microsoft (which people say XBL subscription fees help fund) to include online playability. Shouldn't costs be lower? I mean I guess it is fair to say that it is a new system with all the HD goodness so developing costs are going to cost more in the first year and half or two. So I will compromise. In a year, if costs aren't lower for games when they release, I'll wonder what the hell the XBL fee was ever really for. Or I'll wonder why the hell games are still $60 and not $50.

    The other thing that pisses me off:

    Why do people keep saying that someone has to buy the servers and you'll pay for it somewhere?

    Ever heard of competitive gaming? Ever heard of clans? Ever heard of clans needing servers to practice?

    I play Battlefield 2 on my PC and practically every server I've ever played on is some clan's server. The clans pay for the server and have the admin ability to boot whomever they choose to make room for a fellow clan member joining the server. With competitive gaming on the rise, I can see this as a growing trend among console games. Granted this model works best with FPSes I imagine that similar models could appear with other genres (though I'm not really sure to what degree).
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/06 @ 16:39

  • fost@rd #247 5 years ago

    there online maybe free but i would rather pay for better quality online (xbox live)

  • Ryze #248 5 years ago

    When it actually works, and when there are a good list of decent games that use it well - then I'll comment on how good it is.

    At the moment, for online play there's hardly anything on the PS3.

    In addition to that, we can't trust that there'll be anything much that's playable and populated online on PS3 in a years time, judging from the PS2 and PSP.

    Then there's the issue of voice communication, which again is broken or non existent on PS2 & PSP. There are already PS3 games that have online play without voice chat - ridiculous. Is there an official headset? Will Sony promote it? Too many ???s.

    I just don't trust Sony's online strategy. I don't trust in their ability to proved this service, due to how poor things have been so far.

    They need to prove us wrong and win me over.

  • Worriedlily #249 3 years ago

    I would like to thank whoever it was earlier in this post who spoke about gaminglue. I got my codes in three hours! SFIIHD is finally on my PS3 but I regret buying it now because just 1 day after buying the PSN card, gaminglue had SFIV in stock... Now I have no more money to buy a new game, this really sucks