Where do games go wrong? Comments by Tom Bramwell

Max: can we please just write one which results in that cheesy bell-end being banned? Thank you.

How about writing a script that secretly removes his posts from the forum and creates replies only he can see that creates the illusion people are listening to him? This would effectively nuke him from the forum and keep him so distracted he'll never know it.

ES: The European Union has a lower GDP than America.

Random Name: Why is the GDP lower?

ES: Because America is great and Europe sucks.

Random Name: Why do you say America is great?

ES: Because my numbers say so.

Random Name: Do you talk to your numbers often?

OK. So, this stuff isn't perfect yet...

acceptable user policy...i`ll only last about 5 mins with that :)

How about writing a script that secretly removes his posts from the forum and creates replies only he can see that creates the illusion people are listening to him? This would effectively nuke him from the forum and keep him so distracted he'll never know it.

That script reminds me of a Scheme/LISP (horrible language) psychology doctor program.

heh, why not get that n00b talking to ELIZA.

Read this:

http://www.blackwood.dk/postmortem/

It's about a year old, but still contains interesting facts

heh, why not get that n00b talking to ELIZA.

Yes, that's it!

Screw it, get all those vying to beat the Turing Test to unleash their scripts upon him.

Before he figures it out, we will have blown this place and be home in time for cornflakes.

blackwood - interesting!

(is that the correct term?)

Perhaps it would be better termed xenephobia, or xenephobic?

The problem with rules is that a large proportion will then go to the trouble of breaking them, not the longtime resonsible members, but n00bs like me ;)

a large proportion will then go to the trouble of breaking them

Thats why a 3 strike rule would be good; it gives 'noobs' a chance.

That one site (blackwoods) should be seen by every single developer so that the same mistakes are not made again and again and again....some very positive points there and well worth a read.

WWWWAAAAAYYYYYYY OFFFF TOPIC QUESTION COMING UP (sorry)

Does anybody own a GBA light/magnifier thing? or if not, do they know which ones to avoid? Ive just booked a holiday to CRETE (yay) and want to get a magnifier light thing for the plane journey.

Any answers muchos appreciated.

binky:

(a) the one place where you will *not* need a wormlight/magnifier thing is on a plane cos the passenger reading lights are the best GBA illumination device ever invented;

(b) I hope you have more luck than I did on a recent flight with Virgin Express, the pilot came on the intercom and threatened to have me arrested on landing for using my GBA during a flight. All I'd done was ask why a GBA was banned when a fully-specced laptop was OK. :p

One suspects you plugging the link cable directly into the Airbus CPU and playing Afterburner may of contributed slightly......

GBA Lights: Has anyone tried one of these? A couple of mags have said they're great, but you know how much magazines can be trusted. :-)

I would say avoid the worm lights, they are just a nightmare IMO.

Blerk - I have one that looks very similar - it may be the joytech one and its useless. I also got a worm light that is also useless, plus I have borrowed a couple of other GBA lights which were also useless.

LOL, ok so no big fans of these light things then. :) must admit, im not a great fan of these things, as a) the screen is big enuff imo, and b) go outside in the sunshine and play it if u need xtra light.

i cant believe they made u turn it off otto!! thats mad! u didnt have dynamite strapped to ur waiste or something silly like that as well did u ??

I think i'll have a look in EB on the way home, but if u reckon reading light on plane is all i will need, then i probably wont bother. 54 levels into Mario world. absolutely quality game that :) Just borrowed STAR X from work as well. looks like a star fox clone. will let u know what its like.

...the pilot came on the intercom and threatened to have me arrested on landing for using my GBA during a flight

I hope you wrote a stinking letter to Virgin demanding an appology.

And I suppose we can use the unlimited supply of Gold at the end of the Rainbow can we... TUT!!!

Well, you could start by not reading gaming websites of an afternoon and do some programming instead.

Prophetic :-

Er, no, you're very much mistaken. There's no way in hell the editor or anyone else involved in writing a book (or even an article in a magazine!) has even 5% of the creative control wielded by the author. They're there to provide a grounding influence sometimes, yes, but ultimately the book is created by the author. That's why only the author is credited.

Design by committee is rarely a good thing. Sometimes you get creative teams who work well together, and that's great; but in general, you do need to have one strong, guiding influence on the whole project. That's Mikami, Molyneux, Spector - someone who certainly takes input from others, but with whom, ultimately, the creative vision for the entire project lies.

prophetic.... that is a very pesamistic view.

i am a firm believer in the philosphy that there is ALMOST no such thing as an original idea, but that takes it a bit far. agreed in the games industry there is a lot of input from different people, and like the movies, one person will always reap the plaudits and praise, but im sure elsewhere people do come up with there own pieces of work..

u know what. im starting to sound hypercrtical here and im not sure where this is leading so im gonna butt out!! LOL.... back to those gameboy lights...

Design by committee is rarely a good thing.

Agreed, you can't have a staff of people saying "this is cool, let's do that". If you vision your game properly as a designer, three years down the line you might end up adding "new cool features" shared during tea-time.

i cant believe they made u turn it off otto!! thats mad! u didnt have dynamite strapped to ur waiste or something silly like that as well did u ??

oh yeah I forgot to mention that I was using the D-pad to take over the controls and fly the plane to Iraq...

I think i'll have a look in EB on the way home, but if u reckon reading light on plane is all i will need, then i probably wont bother.

Assuming your reading light works, then that's all you'll need, you have otto's guarantee ;)

I hope you wrote a stinking letter to Virgin demanding an appology.

I certainly did. Then I remembered that (a) I live in Belgium, (b) Virgin Express are based in Belgium, (c) the usual reaction around these parts to complaints is to send round the mafia to break your legs, (d) my office insists that I use cheap-arse Virgin Express to fly anywhere, (e) I didn't want Virgin Express customer records putting a big red star next to my name, so I tore it up without posting it... :(

Otto - I'll have a good bitch at anyone, I'm not fussy. Send the letter to me and I'll send it to them pretending it was me on the flight.

/nick SuperOtto

NEVER an original idea

It depends how deep you look at things. For example, a basic game might involve getting from A to B overcoming a number of obstacles in the process, using a combination of skill, judgment, luck and problem solving analysis.

Now that could pretty much cover any number of games from Lemmings to Doom, but I think most people here would agree that Lemmings was a pretty original game when it first came out.

If anyone has ever studied copyright law, you'll know that a great deal of importance is placed on the divide between idea and expression. You can't copyright an idea, but you do get copyright in your expression of the idea. This argument may start to sound as though style is more important than substance, but that's missing the point.

The way to making a worthwhile game is to come up with something that feels different to things that have gone before, and then to evaluate it to see if it is actually fun. There's little point in regurgitating the same old tried and tested formulas over and over (e.g. a large number of first person shooters since Doom), but every now and then a special one comes along that offers just enough new thought to become a classic (Half-Life?).

So yes, at the end of the day it is all about the designers - what can they offer us that is original, stimulating, interesting and most of all fun.

The sequel to something original stimulating and fun seems to be on pre-order at play.com:

http://play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=PS2&title=103721

Thanks Bleeptest - GTA3 really does sum up what (I think) I was trying to say. It took the same basic idea as its forebears and made it into one of the most entertaining games on all current generation consoles, simply because there are so many quality ideas that complement the main game's objective.

Having said that, I'm nowhere near finishing it, so I kind of wish they'd wait a while before bringing out the sequel! I just hope Vice City is as much of a breath of fresh air as GTA3 was in October last year.

people like Shigeru Miyamoto, Yu Suzuki and Shinji Mikami.

Common like the japanese are the only ones making great games ?
Sure they are great at making funny caracters and sow on, but when did they come up with something new in the gaming scene ?
I think european and american game designers are less reluctant to try something new, whereas the japanese rather stick to the same old formulas...

when did they come up with something new in the gaming scene

Pikmin?
Super Monkey Ball?
Luigi's Mansion?

Whether they work as good games or not, they're a fair bit more imaginitive than the endless sequels and FPSs and Rally sims we see from Western developers. There are always exceptions...

skalmanxl - "three years down the line you might end up adding "new cool features" shared during tea-time"

Bit like Black & White really. :)

Otto:

I work almost opposite the Virgin Express main offices at the airport- want me to go over and start some shit? :-)

I've never had hassle off Sabena/dat/SN Brussels Airline/or whatever thier name is this week about my GBA- just get told to turn it off repeatedly when we are coming in to land...

It kind of normal that they ask you to turn it of during the landing.
Ever since all the controls are handled thru the fly-by-wire computers, the last thing you want is elctro-magnetic interference buy some guy playing a silly game.
Don't know about laptops, aren't they supposed to be turned off during the landing ?
Also ever since 11/9 all the pilots are kinda itchy.
An AA-pilot told me about the new regulations.
The cockpit doors are supposed to stay closed during the entire flight, and if someone comes up to that door that isn't part of the cabin-crew, they are supposed to push the flight stick down as hard as they can.
By doing that everyone in the airplane that isn't attached to their seats gets trown against the roof of the plane, knocking them down for a while.

Slacker - I would love you to give them some grief about it!! I used to be the world's best complainer but since living in Belgium I've had to learn to grin and bear it, you never get anywhere by struggling, you just end up more in the shit. Let me know how they react!

The episode was bizarre in the extreme. On the flight down to Madrid I was playing Advance Wars the whole way in full view of the cabin crew without a problem, they just told me to stow it for landing, so I never thought to ask them about it on the way back. When the stewardess saw me using the GBA though it's as if I'd threatened to blow a hole in the fuselage or something. I put the thing away but whinged mightily, so she said she'd go double check with the captain which was when he came on the intercom and threatened me. It's true the safety card says 'no handheld games' though obviously there's no reason for it, I can't imagine they emit any kind of EM interference above the level of a laptop. The greater irony was that I immediately pulled out my Psion to draft a 'disgusted of Kraainem' letter, the Psion of course having virtually identical internal architecture, power consumption, screen etc to the GBA. The *only* reason the GBA was picked on was because it's a dedicated games machine. If it's for 'business' then apparently it won't crash the plane.

GAH

worked myself up into a state again remembering all this - sorry to those who've heard it before

edit - FeZZ, this wasn't during landing, it was halfway through the flight, and the guy sitting next to me was playing a game on his high specced laptop. It was a total joke and everyone around me was amazed at the way Virgin handled it.

"Ever since all the controls are handled thru the fly-by-wire computers, the last thing you want is elctro-magnetic interference buy some guy playing a silly game. "

This is the argument the airlines use. You are on approach to an airport being blasted by various radar systems, ground crew radios, TV signals, planes own RF, mobile masts all of which are far more powerfull than someone with a laptop or GBA. Aircraft electronics are supposedly RF shielded - they have to pass strict tests.

Modern airliners also use multiple flight computers which vote on what is the right course of action. This also helps against RF interference as they use different power supplies and sensors.

sseullid, commercial planes fuselage are completely shielded against EM radiation, gamma-radiation and electric shocks ( lightening ).The inside on the other hand acts like the cage of faraday. Otto has a point about the laptops and pda's though.
But I wonder if laptops arend shielded ? I remember seeing metal plates in mine.
The real problems are celluar phones.
Hold the damn thing against your normal everyday kathode monitor and you'll see what I mean.
In belgium a gas station blew up because a cell-phone activated a remote controlled gas-pump.
I think there was a plane that got in trouble because of a cell-phone once, don't remember if it crashed or not.
I don't fly a lott but don't some passenger seats contean lcd screens and stuff ?

http://www.gbaparty.nl/nieuws/item/2092/

Check this out microsoft is gonna make games for the gba.

Er .. yes, thanks, we actually posted a story about that a few hours ago. ;)

FeZZ, yeah, loads of LCD screens in cabins but I guess they're made to spec for airlines. In any case though a GBA is hardly going to pose a threat when a PDA doesn't.

In belgium a gas station blew up because a cell-phone activated a remote controlled gas-pump.

True story: I was filling up the other day when this taxi driver did a virtual handbrake turn into the petrol station, screeched to a halt behind me, all the while smoking a fag and talking on his mobile, jumped out, engine running, and started filling up his car (lit fag still in his mouth, still chatting on his GSM, engine still running). I got the hell out of there sharpish.

edit - cheers Nicco, though Virgin Atlantic are under different management to Virgin Express (though part of my grievance was that Virgin Express were applying their own rule inconsistently). The guy everyone was getting cross about further up the thread had his post deleted, but there's also a whole history there which means that the level of hostility towards him is not so much because of that one post as because of his general behaviour over a period of months.

while smoking a fag

Wow, you people ain't nice to the sexually diverse people are you? (yes I'm taking the piss)

commercial planes fuselage are completely shielded against EM radiation, gamma-radiation and electric shocks ( lightening ).The inside on the other hand acts like the cage of faraday. Otto has a point about the laptops and pda's though.
The only way to shield against gamma-radiation (until discovery of energy shields) is heavy metals (uranium, lead, etc. in thick layers). I strongly doubt a plane has that... there is no way normally to be shielded from gamma-radiation... which is anyway almost harmless. Just as a reminder, gamma-radiation is normal foton radiation but with very high energy compared to normal light.

im still confused.

just looking on the website of the people i am flying with and it says this under Hazardous:

hazardous articles & materials

* Electronic devices (radios, personal stereos, electronic games and similar devices) - hand baggage only.
Mobile phones may not be used onboard any aircraft.
* Lighters and safety matches - hand baggage only.
* Butane powered gas curlers - 1 gas curler per passenger may be carried in either hold or hand baggage, provided the safety cover supplied with it is firmly in place.
* Butane powered travel irons – prohibited.
* Chemical oxygen generators – prohibited.
(However small gaseous oxygen/air cylinders required for medical use are permitted).
* Christmas crackers - one box per passenger.
* Party poppers – prohibited.
* Animals, including birds and reptiles – prohibited

Does this mean my GBA is NOT prohibited and i may have it in my hand luggage?

binky - it means you have to carry them in your hand luggage, if you put them in your suitcase it'll show up during security checks and they'll blow up your bags. They assume that any electronic device left ina suitcase is a Lockerbie-style bomb.

My advice - take the GBA on board in your hand luggage, and once you've taken off, just ask the cabin crew nicely if you can use it. Then if they says no moan like hell.

:o)

im using it. no doubt about it. is advance wars good? thinking of getting it, but im not really into that sort of game, C&C, Dune, that sort of thing. have i got the wrong end of the stick or is that exactly what its like ?

Binky - advance wars is a great game, i've only played through the tutorial missions so far, but it rocks. there's been no resource management like c&c etc, you just start the levels with certain units and bases and have to work the strategy side of things.

binky, main difference to C&C, Dune etc is that it's turn-based which makes it far more cerebral, it's a lot of fun and devilishly hard at times. For a long flight though my GBA game of choice would be Golden Sun :)

oh yeah, i forgot the turn based bit. oops :)

I fly fairy regularly between Belgium and England, and they always say dont use any electronic equiptment during take off and landing (and they list 'hand-held games', walkmans and laptops usually)- and then say if you want to use any thing during the flight to notify the cabin crew (not that anyone ever actually does, and they dont seem to mind that).

Its probably down to the airline as to what thier policy on it all is, and the cabin crew as to whether or not they want to enforce it.

Binky- on top of what otto said- you really wouldnt want to leave anything like your GBA in your luggage anyway unless its a VERY sturdy case- I dont trust the way they handle the luggage at all- it would probably end up thrown around and broken :-(

And Advance Wars is class- its not really like C&C or Dune mainly because its turn based- its a different style of game entirely really. Its definately well worth getting. Its perfect for things bus rides ect.. too- since its turnbased you can play a few goes while you wait for the bus, stop, get on the bus, play a few more goes... those journeys just disappear :-)

(edit: errr... as otto has just said ;-))

Oh and AW *does* have resource management - kind of - you need to think about your number of bases, especially on missions where you have to produce extra units from factories etc. But it's emphatically *not* an RTS which in my book is a "good thing".

k. think i'll give it a whirl. but on ur head be it ;)