360 failure rate put at 16 per cent Comments by Ellie Gibson

Rash' dont buy a 360 then thats your decision which you are entitled to make, yet why are you here preaching about how wrong/stupid(or any other obnoxious comment you can think of in the hopes you can bully them into your way of thinking... the Sony way) people are who are quite happy to look forwards instead of backwards or put up with a few inconveniences for the sake of what they feel is a great games machine which can only get better?

Thats where youve gone wrong and why, really everything that doesnt constitute as trolling you could have added, could have been in your first post and most likely not have been met with any arguement.

Your bases is on the past, now as a new buyer(of the falcon version) you have no idea of knowing the reliability (but it has improved theres no denying that, thats why I'll happily buy a falcon this year if I can afford it as a new buyer too). This is great for MS' competition and a prime target for FUD because from now on, no matter how reliable it is(even with newer versions), somebody will always be trying to cast doubt(this includes obsessive members of fanbases willing to go to extreem flag-waving lengths for their prefered brand... Apologie, Headbog, Les ect to name some obvious examples).

The design itself was excellent on technical performance grounds it exceeded even Sony's expectations, the price is fair(but not "great value" for money anymore granted) even compared to the PS3 considering blu-ray only has worth if you are interested in blu-ray yet... I for one dont and wont do in the next 4-5 years either I suspect(also MS could be onto something with their Digital Distribution route... Im not about to start replacing any DVDs any time soon and the majority of new releases these days arent worth buying IMO... downloading a couple from a service like MS' every now and then out of curiosity though? maybe) The same goes for wi-fi if you dont use it what value does that hold to you? You'd never have bought it if it wasnt there anyway... it wouldnt be missed.

Even if you disagree that the price is fair then wait a while by all means, a price drop is inevitable for both 360 and PS3, wait for the next major revision perhaps? In which case youd not beable to use either of those excuses... I doubt you can say that for the falcon 360 as it is but since it cant be proven and you most likely never had intention to nor ever will buy a 360 to begin with, its pointless trying to reason with you. If thats not completely true then I appologise but you know how trolls are, especially anti-ms ones.

16% is wildly optimistic. Perhaps its 16% within one year from purchase, on a sample that includes a large number of machines that are only used occasionally.

On a pre-falcon model used moderately for two years its clearly close to 100% due to inherent design flaws in the 360's cooling system.

Heres a good story about the truth behind this fiasco. If I'd spent £300 on one of these ponies I'd be very unhappy. Not 'up in arms' or anything, but it'd certainly be a case of 'vote with your wallet'.

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jak...

Here a good quote to wind up some fanboys:

"In the end I think it was fear of failure, ambition to beat Sony, and the arrogance that they could figure anything out, that led to the decision to keep shipping.... Compare that to Sony, who delayed their launch, even though they were behind, when their box wasn't ready."

I hightly recommned and cooling device, like nyko usb powered fan, the do reduce temp.

Those have been reported to completely fry xboxes power supplies, so i wouldn't rush out to buy one.

Gaol oh that old crap again(wondered how long it would be till someone posted it) "unnammed" inside source that appears to begrudge MS(obvious by the tone throughout that interview) = not nearly enough to convince me this is "the real truth honest", infact I think thats a prime example of FUD it wouldnt be beyond Sony you know.

@Calgon

Theres no real way of us knowing, but the facts do seem to fit with the evidence. As for Sony (or any competitor) somehow being responsible for that story, thats ludicrous. You'll be saying they sabotaged the motherboards in a night raid next. The problem is wholly of Microsofts making, why excuse it?

Gaol regardless of whether there is a problem or not(which there 'was'...) its easily exagerated and it would only benifit the competition if it were, FUD has been paid for before in business so its not ludicrous at all(so no its not some tinfoil hats theory as you tried to suggest with the motherboard sobbotage comments)... Sony did this last gen not only in their statements to the press at every opportunity but paid for peices in the media to create FUD towards first Dreamcast, then Xbox(Sony can and will fight dirty if they have to... moreso than any other thats joined the console race so far I feel).

You are right theres no way of knowing but looking at it I just dont trust this source as I read it, it does read like a FUD peice, which is why you posted it too you have to concede.

@Calgon

If thats what you want to believe mate, I think all companies are pretty much the same in terms of ethics though tbh, ie. they don't have any. I can't argue with you anyway mate, its like I'm questioning a born again Christian's belief structure, and not discussing a £300 console.

Gaol you're the preacher here mate not me... pot calling the kettle and all that. ;)

"I have the truth and the Sony lord has shown me the way, as it was written in the article of 8bitjoystick.com... trust not the Evil M$ and 360 my gaming friends for 'this isnt living' " :-p

edit: nearly forgot the $

If thats not a joke dude seek help.

Seriously.

/checks some recent Gaol posts and strokes beard

Gaol and you are normal? Not a troll?... riiiiight *cough* dude I mean Im serisouly.... move along please. ;)

/doesnt own a 360, therefore has nothing to justify... just able to see things for what they are.

headbog = tosser.

& yes, it's funny how all of the PS2 fans are forgetting its atrocious DVD drive failure rate.

There aren't many PS2 owners who kept a launch console longer than 3 years without fault.

Every PS2 owner I know has been through 2 or more consoles and my own DVD drive works only with some games some of the time, since late 2004/ early '05, after it was bought in time for GTAIII's launch in '01.

So conveniently forgotten...

You guys do realise that 16% is STILL a big number..

Thats more than one in every 6 FFS!

Think i'll hold off and get a ps3 when it gets something worth playing.

>es, it's funny how all of the PS2 fans are forgetting its atrocious DVD drive failure rate.

1. The ps2 sold considerably more units than the 360, and so you expect a few dodgy ones. And i can gaurantee it wasnt 1 in 6. But even if it was, even if it was 1 in 1 and every one of them broke down. That's not excusable for someone else to come along and release a shoddy product now is it?

2. Regardless of what you're a "fan" of, why on hell would you stick up for shoddy hardware? We're consumers, we shouldnt tolerate a shoddy product! You seriously think that just because someone says that, they're a "sony fanboy" and you'll stand by your beloved xbox no matter how shoddy the hardware was?

3. Why on hell are you a fan of the hardware to a point where you're sticking up for he hardware rather than the games?


I dont care which console i chose, supported, etc. I wouldnt tollerate any shoddyness in anything i buy, be it console, tv, dvd player, etc. I sure as hell wouldn't be sticking up for LG if my tv kept breaking down!

Gamers are weird.

I had my release console die the other week so I can believe it.

As for people conducting there own survey you have to consider the human nature of only report the bad things, people will mention theres has broke, but generally not mention if its still working. Much like i mentioned to people at work my console died, but up until them I nver said, 'my 360 is still working'.

As some people have mentioned it would still appear to be the best console (in my opinion) and it going away doesn't bother me too much as I have a Wii and PC to still mess with.

Also more failures are appearing with time, whos to know that all PS3's might not pop after 1.5 years? I don't think it will but you never know...

smelly is weird

I don't know how much Microsoft paid SquareTrade to "lie" about that figure but a 16% failure rate for the Xbox 360 (or 1 out of every 6) seems way too low to me! I've been through five Xbox 360s in total of which three RROD'd so that's a 60% failure rate for moi. The Xbox 360 is a great machine for games but it's the shitiest made console ever as far as build quality is concerned. There's a very interested article about the Xbox 360 in this month's Edge which covers the failure rates (they say 30%) and it's a very interesting read.

my 360 rrod on Saturday :-(. Its been collected and off for repair so should be a few weeks yet. Funny thing is i have a ps3, psp, wii and a pc and i feel like i am lost without my 360 ... I guess that's my lead console for games at the mo and since i have had it just over 2 years feel quite luck that its still under warranty. Its a great gadget there is no denying it. Shame it wasn't a bit more reliable but never mind :-(

I was thinking why some people keep getting replaced sets only to get RROD again, probably becos the repair centers got too many returned sets that they themselves could not handle the repairs & the deadlines set by MS, so take a portion & marked it as "passed". That's why there are some people who keeps getting back faulty "refurbished" sets.

MS got it screwed up in the 1st place, in turns screws contractors down the line, in the end, customers get "it" again. Lol...so typical human behaviour if you work in a MNC, you see issues complicating different departments/parties, nobody knows what's going on...everybody just screws everybody up.

The links to the interview is as real as you can get.

I dont give a fucking shit if my 360 red rings, its the best system for games at the moment. so if it fucks up, i will be quite happy to wait for its return. like they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder :)

I *genuinely* cant see why people are defending this?

I mean, it's all fair game to be a fan of one system over another.. but if it's a shoddy product - why defend it?

I defended MiniDisc at the time and my SONY player had a far worse failure rate than the 360. I had my MiniDisc player repaired 6 times in the space of 2 years. Because it was only twice in the first year, Dixons wouldn't replace it.

In fact, considering it is only Microsofts's second attept at a console, they're not doing too badly. Here's a list of Sony products I've had fail:

Sony MiniDisc portable (shoddy laser and digital input)
Sony MiniDisc HiFi (shoddy laser)
Sony portable CD player (oooohh, ohhhh yeah shoddy laser)
2 x Sony CD stacks (first the amp gave up and then *drum roll* shoddy laser)
Playstation 2 (you see where I'm going here? guess what failed)

Both manufaturers suffer these problems but the 360 has had it worse due to the overexposure of it on the internet. I'm not saying it's good by any standard but would the Sony fanboys realise that Sony are renowned for it also. Remember the laptop battery fiasco?

Like I've just said, the failure rate isn't acceptable but both Microsoft AND Sony aren't perfect.

Can we please remove the irrational support and the obnoxious crowing from this discussion? Personally I have a PS3, had the 360 not had large reliability problems then I would have got that since it's cheaper and has better games, but in my experience dodgy hardware that you have to get replaced frequently is more hassle than it's worth. Is the problem fixed in the new 360's? I hope it is, and that every manufacturer learns from this whole debacle that it's unacceptable to produce this kind of thing.

The light that burns 5 times as bright ......

+1 to Smelly

I dont own either console but honestly, I don't get why the 360 owners (Calgon and miiiguel for example) are defending shoddy hardware. As consumers, the greater our willingness to tolerate shoddy manufacturing only means we get chaffed in the long run. Speak out against MS, not defend them FFS u idiotic fanboys...

“Like I've just said, the failure rate isn't acceptable but both Microsoft AND Sony aren't perfect.”

And let’s not forget Nintendo…

Every piece of electronics will have units that fail, so no manufacturer is perfect. It’s about the relative number of units that fail. For MS, that’s exceptionally high. For Sony and Nintendo apparently not.

As for the correctness/accuracy of the 16%, for now it’s just a figure with no real explanation of what it’s based on (e.g. who are the people that typically make use of the company’s services?; what’s the composition of the 360s they have in their portfolio (I can imagine that the premium for an older model would be relatively high leading to less people opting for it for example)). We have this figure and the big pot of money MS set aside to cover the high failure rate. MS will probably be on the high side (to be safe), this figure will be on the lower side (and as they indicate, they expect it to rise). The truth is somewhere in between.

As I said I dont own a 360(mixture of not liking the expense of gaming these days and waiting for the dust to settle along with waiting for reliability to improve ect) but 360 has always always seemed the better choice even if I was about to buy last year the only choice would have been to wait for the 360 revision for me. Sony could have some real problems if they dont get their act together this year IMO and the 2008 lineup trust me is very uninspiring to alot of gamers so I wouldn't be too excited for Sony's bank manager just yet(why some people care so passioinatly about that I dont know). Yes this RROD business shouldnt have happened, Im not defending that but what more can they do now though? Do you think this was intentional or mixture of hastyness and bad luck? Isnt it time to look forwards not backwards?

a) They finally offered to do what was right and fix them for free, even pay back those who were out of pocket for their mistake.

b) Falcon so far seems to be what was needed, the only people arguing with that now are hypocrites(they are waving flags for Sony you can bet Nintendo fanboys arent feeling half as insecure) they are the trolls they are the fanboys because they are armed with NOTHING but speculation or FUD!... all they want it is total abbandonment of 360 I mean WTF grow up seriously.

c) For those not convinced enough for Falcon theres another big revision on the way this year( I may wait for that too... if not just for the hope that theyve addressed the noise)... will these people ever shut up about it though? No because they never really cared about "the poor gamers" in the first place is it not obvious? So even if it ends up the most reliable you will get the "you're all idiots buying shoddy hardware still" response when thats not true at all. As I said in their little minds they probably hope they can sort of bully people to jump ship or avoid MS totally. lol its pathetic the lengths they will go to, to defend their brands(hypocrisy when they say it of anyone else as can anyone think of any other reason theyd post so much on a console they dont like from a company they dont like?)

Well I for one can see the situation for myself clear enough, so yeah this year seems like THE year if youve been unsure about the 360. It has the games and reliability issues arent as big a concern for new buyers anymore(you cannot argue with that) and from that perspective it can ONLY improve from here on out. Once the RROD worries have cleared from gamers and the general publics minds MS have a real chance to turn it back around and put a bit more distance between them and Sony and I hope they do so long as theyve addressed all the problems they needed to, they deserve a bit of good fortune(as I said what more can they do once the console is reliable? where is cause for hate then? you'll either ignore it and carry on or find something else as always).