Sony makes gargantuan £1.3 billion loss during third quarter

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 2 February, 2012

Good luck, Kaz.

Sony made a gargantuan £1.3 billion loss during October to December 2011.

Sales of its many products decreased "significantly" year-on-year because of the floods in Thailand, the "deterioration in market conditions in developed countries" and "unfavourable foreign exchange", Sony said.

Sony made a profit in the third quarter of its previous financial year.

The $2.03 billion loss was made off the back of $23 billion in revenue. Sony has now increased its full-year loss forecast from ¥90 billion to ¥220 billion ($2.9 billion). It'll be Sony's fourth annual loss in a row.

Sony's Consumer Products and Services division, of which PlayStation is a part, also made a loss ($1.09 billion) for the quarter. It made a significant profit during the third quarter of its previous financial year.

Sony blamed reduced sales (down 24 per cent) on the PlayStation 3 price cut and marketing costs that were above expectations. The division is also home to Sony's LCD TVs, sales of which were hit by the Thailand floods.

6.5 million PS3s were sold in the third quarter. 12 million have now been sold in the financial year (Sony expects to sell 14 million when all is said and done at the end of March). 62 million PS3s have been sold globally since launch.

66.2 million PS3 games were sold during Q3. 129.7 million games have been sold during the current financial year. 568.1 million PS3 games have been sold since the console's launch.

Sony this week made former PlayStation boss Kaz Hirai CEO and president of the company, replacing Sir Howard Stringer from 1st April.

"As challenging as times are for Sony now," Hirai said, "were it not for the strong leadership of Sir Howard Stringer these past seven years, we would have been in a much more difficult position.

"The path we must take is clear: to drive the growth of our core electronics businesses - primarily digital imaging, smart mobile and game; to turn around the television business; and to accelerate the innovation that enables us to create new business domains.

"The foundations are now firmly in place for the new management team and me to fully leverage Sony's diverse electronics product portfolio, in conjunction with our rich entertainment assets and growing array of networked services, to engage with our customers around the world in new and exciting ways."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (108) Latest comment 3 weeks ago

  • Brownstudy #1 3 weeks ago

    No wonder they're not announcing PS4 at E3; they can't afford the airfares.

  • Brownstudy #2 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 08:44:48 02-02-2012

  • jetsetwillie #3 3 weeks ago

    no need to worry. I'm sure the Vita will turn this around in no time...

  • Deckard1 #4 3 weeks ago

    Ruh oh

  • Cadence #5 3 weeks ago

    Riiiiii....

  • silverjon #6 3 weeks ago

    "Sony blamed reduced sales (down 24 per cent) on the PlayStation 3 price cut and marketing costs that were above expectations". In other words a global audience that were reluctant to spend money on non-essential consumer goods when they face so much financial uncertainty and unavoidable rising costs elsewhere (fuel, energy, food, etc).

    These are very very tough times. The intangible earthquake of the credit crunch is now just starting to be felt in the "real economy" and like a tsunami it will take many businesses with it (Game, HMV, and many others relying on non-essential consumer spending are all obviously struggling).
    I'm sure Sony will survive, but 4 consecutive annual losses is sign of a more significant malaise. Expect cost-cutting measures rather than price-cutting.

  • Snake_2011 #7 3 weeks ago

    all losing money Nintendo are near a billion loss as well.

  • miiiguel #8 3 weeks ago

    That's a shit load of negative money.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #9 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • Noxia #10 3 weeks ago

    Thought Vita would have turned it around. The amount of times I've seen fanboys advising that it's going to destroy the 3DS because it has dual analogue sticks.
    Time will tell.

  • JahB #11 3 weeks ago

    the thailand floods caused losses for everyone in the consumer electronics industry, but i can't help thinking maybe if they started pricing their TVs realistically, that division would do better.

  • NotSoSlim #12 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Biker_Bob_1971 wrote:
    @jetsetwillie You ARE kidding, right?</quote>

    Does it really matter either way? You think Vita is a joke we get it.

    Anyway Game industry needs to take a hard look at itself. All this points to is a PS4 that they will want to make profit on from day one

  • Subdominator #13 3 weeks ago

    Hmmm.

    Sony: 62 million PS3 sold, lifetime income/loss: - 3.5 billion dollar
    MS: 66 million 360 sold, lifetime income/loss: + 1.8 billion dollar

    Kinda puts things into perspective, shipped numbers are worthless. PS3 is a money pit and PS4 won't do any of the mistakes again.

  • tachometer #14 3 weeks ago

    "were it not for the strong leadership of Sir Howard Stringer these past seven years, we would have been in a much more difficult position"

    That's one way of looking at it I suppose.....

  • Negotiator1 #15 3 weeks ago

    You know what I'm beginning to think we may not get a PS4, the amount of money Sony have lost on the PS3 is terrible. They have to think that it's not worth it, and let Microsoft and Nintendo fight it out.

  • NotSoSlim #16 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Subdominator wrote:
    Hmmm.

    Sony: 62 million PS3 sold, lifetime income/loss: - 3.5 billion dollar
    MS: 66 million 360 sold, lifetime income/loss: + 1.8 billion dollar

    Kinda puts things into perspective, shipped numbers are worthless. PS3 is a money pit and PS4 won't do any of the mistakes again.</quote>

    Sure does and you know there PS4 ideas involve reusing alot of PS3 assets to keep costs at minimum.

    Also wont know Vita affects until after worldwide launch.

    I do wonder how long they will leave before announcing PS4 tho

  • jellyBelly #17 3 weeks ago

    They need a PS4 to offset the declining market in ps2/ps3/ps2. The vita itself, even if it reaches the peak of the psp performance, wont be enough. psp/ps2 market is in rapid decline and the ps3 seems to be at its peak for hardware and past its peak for software. The challenge will be to offer a ps4 that is attractive to developers and offers a tanglible performance gap to consumers at a reasonable price. Also they cant risk entering the next ge market to late as they might start on the back foot to both MS and Ninty. I also believe that Sony has been disrupted from below by manufacturers such as Samsung and LG who where considered lower quality alternatives a few years back but not any more

  • Triggerhappytel #18 3 weeks ago

    @Subdominator
    Where are your figures from? You realise that Sony's TVs make up a portion of their consumer electronics division, and that has been the most loss-making part of the company for a long time.

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #19 3 weeks ago

    @Subdominator Sony: 62 million PS3 sold, lifetime income/loss: - 3.5 billion dollar
    MS: 66 million 360 sold, lifetime income/loss: + 1.8 billion dollar

    Kinda puts things into perspective, shipped numbers are worthless. PS3 is a money pit and PS4 won't do any of the mistakes again.

    You've missed a key point their tho - Sony set out KNOWING that the ps3 would make a loss on sales because of the new tech, it was all to smuggle in the Bluray into homes, which was meant to recoup the money back on the Bluray tech and licencing. It just hasn't because people haven't adopted Bluray as fast as predicted (due to known reasons), Bluray WILL make it's money back as MS and Nintendo KNOW that they can't keep to DVDs forever and pure digital download isn't for at least another gen or two.

    MS lost a HECK of a lot of money from the HDDVD gambit, however that is never included in the 360 sales as technically speaking that was never part of the 360.

    So those facts above are kind of moot as those are just 'as a console' not a product with all the trimmings as a whole, so despite Sony making a large loss on the PS3 overall it's profitable for the future and the PS4 wont make that much of a loss now as the tech wont need that much thrown at it this time.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 09:19

  • roz123 #20 3 weeks ago

    Anyone buy a Sony HD TV that wasn't shit? My parents Bravia was and they quickly switched it.
    Anyone buy a Sony portable music player that wasn't shit since the iPod hit? They used to rule that market.
    Anyone buy a Sony Ericson phone that wasn't shit?

    The quality of their products just aint what it used to be so its no surprise to me that customers are looking elsewhere.
    Vaios are decent but overpriced and the camera market is slowly becoming niche due to camera phones.

  • Widge #21 3 weeks ago

    @Subdominator Hold on, what figures are what though. Which ones are relevant to Sony gaming and MS gaming?

    If this the overarching companies then I'd be totally unsurprised that MS makes an epic profit, due to it being a completely dominating monster!

    Not questioning you, just clarity of figures...

  • super_monty #22 3 weeks ago

    @roz123

    It was the Sony Walkman software not hardware that made me switch to Creative and then Apple.

    No pissing about much easier to do want I want.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #23 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • patch #24 3 weeks ago

    Eurogamer: "Sony blamed reduced sales (down 24 per cent) on the PlayStation 3 price cut and marketing costs that were above expectations."

    The financials: "This was primarily due to a decrease in LCD television sales reflecting price declines, mainly resulting from deterioration in market conditions in Japan, Europe and North America, the impact from the Floods, and unfavorable exchange rates."
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 09:39

  • NotSoSlim #25 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Biker_Bob_1971 wrote:
    @NotSoSlim I KNOW Vita is a joke. In the shop I go to there hasn't been sold one single pre-order box. I know the manager very well and we talk everytime I see him. He has never had that happen with any console. And no, it is a large store. There is just no interest. Ipad 3 is all the buzz now. I never have heard any buzz on Vita bar the occasional Sony fan on EG. It IS a joke (going by the reviews, the software idn't that great either).</quote>

    So in the shop you go to means no intetest? No offence mate and not devaluing your mates shop or business but surely you should wait for a full worldwide release before judging?

    My two cents anyway

  • irve77 #26 3 weeks ago

    @Kremlik

    I'll agree with that. a lot of sony's "loss" on the ps3 is to do with them wanting BLu-ray as the HD disk format.

    If it wasn't for the PS3 having blu-ray the market could have settled on HD-DVD and the licencing money sony lose from BLu-ray sales over the next 10 years would be a load more.

    PS3 will end it's life haveing made money that surely isn't in doubt

    But i am part of Sony's problem i've got a PS3 but 90% of my games are on 360 they really need to convert people like me to get to a 50/50 ratio

  • JodaCast #27 3 weeks ago

    It is kinda weird how Sony makes its profits from selling Insurance, but all the electronics products I know it for and enjoy are sold at a complete loss. They recently sold their stake in LCD TV manufacturing to Samsung and the PS3 is still struggling to make a profit. Its selling well, which is great! But how much longer can Sony keep their electronics running at a loss? Maybe this puts into perspective the high cost of the Vita?
    Thank goodness for their health/finance insurance division, its keeping the fan service going!

    http://www.businessi nsider.com/chart-of-the-day-sony-operating-income-september- 2011-2011-11

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technolo gy/2011/dec/26/sony-smasung-tv-joint-venture

  • cloudskipa #28 3 weeks ago

    So basically "it's everyone's fault but ours!"

  • arcam #29 3 weeks ago

    @JodaCast Wow, interesting post, thanks. I had no idea.

  • onezeonx #30 3 weeks ago

    @Biker_Bob_1971 you do talk a lot of crap.

    If your local game store hasn't done any pre orders then this manager needs sacking.
    My local isn't that big but they have over 70 pre orders and that was over a week ago before they got the display pods in!

    Just because you don't like it or can't afford one doesn't make it bad.
    Try back up how you KNOW it's a joke eh?

  • StooMonster #31 3 weeks ago

    Last November Sir Howard Stringer said "We can't continue selling TV sets [the way we have been]. Every TV set we make loses money."

    Their tablets have been an expensive failure despite Sony' assertions that "truly represent the best of everything Sony has to offer," Viao computers are not selling like they used to, Sony Pictures lost more than US$3-billion last year, and that's just a snippet of their current corporate woes.

    Kaz Hirai has his work cut out for him.

    Notice his comments reported in the last couple of paragraphs above, it sounds like he's planning on moving in the Apple direction of vertically integrated approach as they way forward for Sony.

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #32 3 weeks ago

    To put Biker bobs comments in perspective of anecdotal evidence, my local Game said pre orders for Vita are really starting to pick up and if they pass 100 they will do a midnight launch, something he said they didnt even consider for the 3DS.


    What ive seen is also just anecdotal to my local shop but there really pushing it with advertising, i would suggest if a shop has no preorders there not advertising it at all.

  • Jay1983 #33 3 weeks ago

    @Widge
    I dont think ive ever seen Microsoft talk about profit, they mention revenues all the time which is quite telling...

  • Oceanstar #34 3 weeks ago

    Holy mother of Jesus. No Vita can save them as much as I wish that it would.

  • NotSoSlim #35 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Eurocensor wrote:
    "PS3 will end it's life haveing made money that surely isn't in doubt"

    It's going to end the generation in the red. There's absolutely no doubt of that. For that not to happen, Sony need to make more money than they ever did from the entire PS2 generation just from now until whenever the generation ends. It's not going to happen.

    You've also got to remember that the PS3 is not the PS2 in terms of it continuing to sell in considerable numbers when the next consoles are released. The PS2 continued to sell cos it crushed the competitors and was proven to be exactly what the public wanted, while the PS3 is the worse selling console of the generation. Sales are flat, even with price cuts. They shipped the same last quarter as they did in the same quarter 2 years ago, while MS had their best quarter ever with the 360 and sold 8.2 million 360s compared to Sony's 6.5 million PS3s.</quote>

    Do you think Sony will reuse PS3 assets for next console thus cheaper to make?

    Also bit of prespective those 360 numbers were off the back of ridiculous discounts in the US however numbers cant be scoffed at.

  • onezeonx #36 3 weeks ago

    @GamesProgrammer you must be lying though as he KNOWS it's crap? :p

  • vizzini #37 3 weeks ago

    So if you remove what they paid Ericsson for the other part of their SE joint venture (which these figures include) and the cost of remarketing the SE brand as just Sony Mobile, the company as a whole roughly broke even.

    edit:
    just saw monty2k's post and this isn't correct(other than maybe marketing costs).
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 11:48

  • ShiftyGeezer #38 3 weeks ago

    @silverjon
    In other words a global audience that were reluctant to spend money on non-essential consumer goods when they face so much financial uncertainty
    These tough times aren't impacting people's willingness to by iPads and smartphones though. If Sony had the right products they'd still be doing okay. They've fumbled tragically the past 5-10 years and let their lead as world innovator of must-have-products be usurped by Apple and Samsung, and they are really going to struggle to win that back.

  • RawNinjaKid #39 3 weeks ago

    $23 billion in revenue and still making a loss?!

    Sounds like a very difficult situation for a gigantic business. Just where do they start cutting? Not the Playstation business, not the electronics business. And movies and music content may serve Sony well, in the online digital age. (i.e. the combination of Apple tech and itunes store is what Sony is rightly looking to emulate)

    And don't forget that Sony mobile - smartphones have still to be get going!

    Nintendo also generated a lot on revenue, despite the the loss this quarter. But it's easier to fix problems when you are a smaller company.
    Edited by 2 at 02/02/12 @ 10:28

  • mukki #40 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 10:30:32 02-02-2012

  • mastablasta #41 3 weeks ago

    Just as I said and it is going to get worse for Sony. Partnership is the way forward.

  • siallen #42 3 weeks ago

    Sony are always going to struggle from now on !!!

    if you buy a tv you either get a Panasonic or a samsung ( you would be stupid not to ). If you buy a mobile phone you would get a Apple, Samsung or a HTC and if you get a mp3 player you basically get a ipod, the only thing sony has going for itself is the PS3 and that has been a let down hopefully they can claw it back someway it would be a sad day if sony couldnt release a new console.

  • monty2k #43 3 weeks ago

    @Vizzini:

    Nope, the losses don't include the Sony Ericsson deal as it hasn't gone through yet.

    The buyout deal only got EU approval yesterday and is expected to be completed sometime this month Info on this site.

    Also the actual Sony press release mentions the deal hasn't gone through yet and that they don't know how it will affect the figures for this fiscal year. Find it here and look at the bottom of page 11.

  • NotSoSlim #44 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Eurocensor wrote:
    "Do you think Sony will reuse PS3 assets for next console thus cheaper to make?"

    It's hard to say. I reckon they might have multiple plans laid out, cos how the Vita does may have an effect on it. They can't continue bleeding money like this, that's for sure. My most likely guess would be a more beefed up PS3 - faster Blu-Ray drive, more RAM, faster Cell, better GPU. It would give a considerable boost in raw power, make backwards compatibility a possibility and devs would be used to the architecture because of PS3 development.

    Being the most powerful combined with being the most expensive to both make and buy (for consumers) isn't a strategy that works, so I think they'll focus more on profitability next time, but then I think MS and Nintendo will as well. I think we might have 3 consoles that are similarly priced and similarly powered, although I still expect the Wii-U to be the weakest but it won't be left out in the dark when it comes to a lot of the cross-platform games, as this gen there have been a lot that are 360/PS3 but not Wii due to the lack of grunt in the Wii.

    What do you think?</quote>

    Agree with beefed up PS3 best way forward and easier to make profit fron get go. Sure both MS and Sony are jealous of how much money Ninty made off of the Wii.

    Think Vita is first step to affordable manufacturing of console although that leads to propriety storage media.

    Kaz seems to have more of a plan than anyone else has for years and seems to want everything linked which is the way forward imo

  • Dizzy #45 3 weeks ago

    MS lost a HECK of a lot of money from the HDDVD gambit
    Lol what?

    Anyway... maybe this is good news for gamers as the PS4 will be a better designed and cheaper machine when it finally comes out.

    Sony needs to axe some divisions IMHO. They have way too many different products.
    Sure both MS and Sony are jealous of how much money Ninty made off of the Wii.
    Yes and no. MS and Sony are in the console race for very different reasons than Nintendo.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 11:07

  • Mchief22 #46 3 weeks ago

    @Biker_Bob_1971 you really are a f#%*ing idiot aren't you!!!

  • NotSoSlim #47 3 weeks ago

    <quote>mastablasta wrote:
    Just as I said and it is going to get worse for Sony. Partnership is the way forward.</quote>

    Not going to happen. Sony is invested to heavily in gaming to do that.

    Maybe Apple/Sony venture but again doubt that. First party will keep Sony afloat and MS need a wake up call in that regard tbh

    If morw studios close you have to have studios to make games for your machine

  • Dizzy #48 3 weeks ago

    First party will keep Sony afloat and MS need a wake up call in that regard tbh
    First party is costing them, not saving them.

  • NotSoSlim #49 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Dizzy wrote:

    <quote>Sure both MS and Sony are jealous of how much money Ninty made off of the Wii.</quote>
    Yes and no. MS and Sony are in the console race for very different reasons than Nintendo.</quote>

    You truly think that? Both Sony and MS must be thinking how to get a console out at a good price and make money from it shortly after launch.

    Ninty nearly always manage it

  • woodnotes #50 3 weeks ago

    "if you buy a tv you either get a Panasonic or a samsung ( you would be stupid not to )."

    Sony is still the second largest TV maker, admittedly only just very slightly ahead of LG but still the second largest all the same.

  • des #51 3 weeks ago

    Even hardcore SDF members have great trouble in spinning things around,Sony must be is some deep shit.
    One thing is for sure,dream about PS3 overtaking 360 is over,joining the ranks of countless other dreams about PS3.

    Game Over.

  • NotSoSlim #52 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Dizzy wrote:
    <quote>First party will keep Sony afloat and MS need a wake up call in that regard tbh</quote>
    First party is costing them, not saving them.</quote>

    How so? Surely it guarantees games on system unless i am a idiot lol

  • arcam #53 3 weeks ago

    @NotSoSlim I think MS will be happy to stick with the strategy of a subsidised console. Xbox Live is their main weapon, and that's probably where they see their money coming from next gen.

  • GamesConnoisseur #54 3 weeks ago

    This time around I realised I m was becoming more keen to see details of PS4 as was dreading heavily Kinect focused X720, too many XBLA Arcade titles recently been Kinect based (interested to know how Kinect XBLA and full titles fares against plain X360?!).

    However this losses and the lifetime costs of PS3 meant Sony would unlikely be in the same position to subside/gamble as heavily as they did in a boom times then for PS3 to be available for PS4.

    So more conservative approach and giving a step up rather than a full generational leap? What new innovations for PS4? Blu-ray established and faster read speed given, ditto for faster processors but off the line rather than properiaty processors like Cell. Larger memory and hard drive.

    Sony would be wiser to let MS get off the starting block and then counter their USP with something bit better, can't afford to release PS4 any earlier! 2014/15 probably to X720 2013/14?

  • Dizzy #55 3 weeks ago

    @NotSoSlim Yes it guarantees games but they are expensive since they sell less.

  • goldbug #56 3 weeks ago

    Ouch. From the looks of pre-market stock movements, consensus was expecting a loss but not this bad.

  • oreillymj #57 3 weeks ago

    I think Sony's policy of proprietary formats (ATRAC), memory cards, connections etc may have finally caught up with them in terms of consumer trust.

    Then there's the inbuilt protectionism they have towards their music and movie corporations which means that the PS3 has Cinavia and won't play MKV's and all their DVD players had region locking when most others could be easily unlocked.

    I'm certainly very careful about buying anything made by Sony after getting caught out by Minidisc and Sony memorystick's but they still don't get it, and are at it again with the Vita memcards.

    Having said that, they make some great CMOS sensors for cameras which are used by Nikon , Apple and Pentax.

    And while the PS3 may have been an expensive mistake, the R&D costs could be spread out over the lifetime of a PS4 also by reusing CELL.

    A PS4 with a 6 core (24 SPU) Cell, a decent GPU with embedded DRAM and unified memory architecture plus a general IO update (USB3, Thunderbolt - WiDI) would be enough to shift 1080p 3D images at a decent lick and wouldn't take a great deal of engineering.

  • silverjon #58 3 weeks ago

    @ShiftyGeezer An excellent point. You're absolutely right. There is a point where consumer interest grows beyond desire and becomes overwhelming need, and Apple have done an incredible job of generating that kind of sales impetus. Sony have not. Just as the iPod did against the Walkman/diskman brands, Apple created a market and took it past the tipping point into widespread phenomenon. Sony adhered to its old brands and established business incomes, perhaps fearing the uncertainty of innovation and riskier new markets.
    I would say, though, that in better economic times, consumers would be more inclined to spend more money with a wider array of 'non-essentials' providers (eg: Sony, etc). If they're going to buy only 1 non-essential gadget then Apple are going to hoover up the money while others struggle.

  • Snake_2011 #59 3 weeks ago

    Biker_Bob_1971 yawn!!!! des yawn!!! so many Michael Pachters on EG meaning they have no clue lol. 1 store has no orders so bob predicts a fail :(
    Edited by 4 at 02/02/12 @ 11:50

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #60 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • vizzini #61 3 weeks ago

    @monty2k
    I was going by this statement of actual ”acquistion” to assume the money changed hands in that quarter. But given the link to the actual results you've provided says otherwise it does make those numbers look worse, but after reading about huge restructuring of the business that is to be expected in the short term.

    Sony Mobile Wikipedia: Sony Mobile Communications AB (formerly Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB) is a mobile phone manufacturing company headquartered in London, United Kingdom and a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony Corporation. It was founded on October 1, 2001 as a joint venture between Sony and the Swedish telecommunications company Ericsson.[1] Sony acquired Ericsson's share in the venture in January 2012.

    @des

    That depends on if Sony follow Microsoft and stop producing exclusives to drive the desirability of their system. I'm already noticing harden 360 fans near me shifting to the PS3 in recent months, and wouldn't be surprised if the 360 styled design of the Vita doesn't have an impact on which home console becomes peoples favourite when 360 fans like yourself buy a Vita.

  • NotSoSlim #62 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Biker_Bob_1971 wrote:
    @Mchief22 Excuse me? What gives you the right to call me a fucking idiot, for casting my opinion that the Vita won't save Sony? Perhaps it is the reason why there are that many pre-orders in the UK, you, not being realistic, a total chav, disrespectful...sounds a bit like a Sony fan...We'll see. In half a year when your Vita will be gathering dust for lack of third party software. Wait, where have I heard that before...</quote>

    How can you say half a year with a straight face? Sony have games and big ones out before years end.

    Alreadu confirmed Call of Duty and Assassins Creed.

    Say 18 months then fair enough

  • javvyman #63 3 weeks ago

    The Vita may turn it around in the long term, but that beast is also being sold at a massive loss when you factor in all development, R&D + marketing costs.
    It will have to be on the market for a good 2 years before is starts hitting the right kind of margins.

    Sony's real hope (SCEE anyway) is with the PS3, it must have an even better 2012 than 2011, as we all know the PS3 had some pretty decent games last year.
    What it also needs in another price drop,(Although that might not be possibility in the short term) otherwise the market will just move on.

    Consumers have been seeing the Wii as the budget console, the one financially concious parents are still buying for their children, but sales for both software and hardware on that front are starting to reach saturation point. The market will need another budget console this year, and Sony must not let Microsoft get ahead of it in that sense, even though I fear Microsoft have already planted the necessary seeds for it to be viewed in that regard come next Christmas as it has invested a little more in child friendly games and the casual audience.

    Sony needs to support the PS3 for another 2 years with the same kind of software line-up as the last couple of years and recoup some losses, because at this rate (3 big annual losses in a row) Sony cannot afford to launch a new console.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 12:08

  • arcam #64 3 weeks ago

    Sony cannot afford to lauch a new console.

    If MS and Nintendo have new machines then maybe they can't afford not to.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #65 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • roz123 #66 3 weeks ago

    @Biker_Bob_1971 Vita will probably sell alright for a bit in the UK but its not going to be huge. Should fair better then it is in Japan though, thats a real disaster.

  • coolbritannia #67 3 weeks ago

    I have foreseen this doom for many years. PS3lol.

    That is all.

  • ShiftyGeezer #68 3 weeks ago

    @silverjon : I agree, but I'll add that this last ten years was Sony's to lose, and lose it they did! They were all set up to have a unified platform, spearheaded by the PS brand, that could do what iTunes does, with games, music, videos, etc. They could have launched this 5 years ahead of Apple and from a stronger start too. But the internal structure wasn't there, they didn't act as one orginisation, and now they are paying the price. I can't honestly see a way back for Sony. Unless they can come up with a new landmark tech again, like Walkman or Trinitron, the other players are too established.

  • Murton #69 3 weeks ago

    How much of that loss is genuine loss though? A sizable amount will be R&D and marketing costs which are often used consilidated into single quarters to decrease tax liability at the end of the year. Not to mention the natural disasters that have greatly affected their production volumes and costs for their hardware.

    The main things we need to take from this is that it means there won't be an early price cut on the Vita like the 3DS, so if you want one you may as well get it as you won't lose out later. It also means that the PS4 will carry a high price tag and be slow to fall as they'll want to increase its profitability. So it's going to be a case of starting to save as soon as it's announced and then prepare for the usual "UK Tax" on the hardware on top.

    Next year or possibly year after could very well see a return to profit with a decrease in R&D activity, hopefully no more disasters and healthy growth in its digital services which are doing quite well at the moment. Also don't forget royalties on disc production thanks to a blu-ray equipped next-gen Xbox if the rumours are true, I can see a strong bounce back in 2013/2014, depending on the costs of the PS4 of course.

  • Weezer #70 3 weeks ago

    Neither the Vita or any first-person titles is going to recoup the £1.3 BILLION lost in one quarter, let alone the total losses made over the last four years. Sony has lost the TV market, the games hardware market, the phone market and the portable music market. CD sales/digital downloads is an ongoing nightmare and its movie business is ailing (when Salt and The Karate Kid are your biggest titles, you know you're in trouble). I don't know anyone that owns a Sony laptop or a Sony camera or even a dedicated Blu-ray player. So, frankly, I have no idea where I'd turn to if I was Kaz Hirai - maybe buy a shitload of lottery tickets...

  • Snake_2011 #71 3 weeks ago

    Biker_Bob_1971 you go on about immature do you read the garbage that comes out of your keyboard lol.

  • patch #72 3 weeks ago

    For a less informed view, here's what the Wall Street Journal has to say:

    "Thursday's revised-down earnings forecast stems largely from two joint ventures that Sony agreed to undo late last year."

    "An unlucky mix of the March 11 disaster in Japan, the strong yen and the extreme flooding in Thailand that disrupted production last fall also played a major factor in the company's dour outlook."

    "Also, someone on a forum says his local games shop hasn't had any Vita pre-orders, so things are looking pretty desperate."

  • CloudXIV #73 3 weeks ago

    @JahB I think they are. I recently bought a new tv. I was sure I'm gonna end up with an LG or Samsung, but I ended up with Sony Bravia, cause it was the best looking tv for that price (also had the lowest energy consumption rate). Anyway, I hope Sony will announce ps4 sooner or later. I've been experiencing the best games on their platforms since ps1 and I hope it'll continue.

  • Darren #74 3 weeks ago

    @roz123 - I've been buying Sony products (PlayStations, TVs, Walkmans, DVD/BD players, surround sound systems, headphones, etc) for the last 20 years and with the exception of the their PlayStations (my PS1 had to turned upside down to work and my launch PS3 died after 2.5 years), I've found their products to be very well made and reliable personally. It's why I buy them and am happy to pay the extra over alternatives from other manufacturers.

    Everyone will have different experiences though and all it takes is several faulty or disappointing products from a manufacturer and most people will switch to someone else.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 12:48

  • AnthonyDaniels #75 3 weeks ago

    @StooMonster


    Dear boy, the resason Sony pictures made a 'loss' last year is because they are pumping huge amounts of money into Men in Black 3, Spider-Man, Ghost Rider, total Recall and 007 Skyfall. All due this year

    unless people stop going to the cinema this year, its highly likely that loss was actually more like a calaculated Gamble

  • PixelPirate #76 3 weeks ago

    Sony this week made former PlayStation boss Kaz Hirai CEO and president of the company, replacing Sir Howard Stringer from 1st April.
    I cant help but think poor Kaz will turn up on April the 1st, a new suit and tie, a big smile on his face, thinking today I get to run Sony.

    ..only for Howard Stringer to turn up infront of him and yell "APRIL FOOLS"

    Poor Kaz.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 13:04

  • des #77 3 weeks ago

    @vizzini

    Too bad that actual sales figures speak otherwise,PS3 is down from 2010,360 is up.Not to mention that PS3 had a price drop.
    Game Over.

    It really doesn't matter,this gen was set in stone like 4 years ago,nothing will change.

    As for Vita,I have PSP--great device with shit software support.No regrets,had lots of fun with it.Favorite dust collector...
    I will get Vita few years down the line if Rockstar puts few games on it(Rockstar was the reason for my PSP purchase).

  • SleepyMagpie #78 3 weeks ago

    Biker_Bob_1971 is most probably right.

    If his story seems of no consequence, what about this one: Here in Norway I'm a part of a gang of tech-savvy, gaming mates, with rather large sums of disposable income (Norway is buffered and is not really experiencing the Eurocrisis).

    -Still, none of us are talking about, let alone considering buying a Vita. It just seems redundant. Some of us are talking about the Ipad 3 and 4, and some are considering finally getting that Kinect kit, just in case Mass Effect 3 might be really cool with it.

    And we all own PS3's.

    Get out of your heads once in a while PS3 fanboys. Are you rooting for a football team? It's a large corporate entity for god's sake, judge the games, love the games, don't get hard-ons for the heads at Sony, they don't love you anyway..

    So many british PS3 boys seem like bling bling chavs.

  • O11Y #79 3 weeks ago

    Where are the giant crabs when you need them?

  • Dizzy #80 3 weeks ago

    Where are the giant crabs when you need them?
    I think they are attacking Sony's weak spot for massive losses.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #81 3 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • vizzini #82 3 weeks ago

    @des

    You are confusing new customers numbers, with existing replacement/new SKU replacement sales that bolster the 360 number. The 1200 unit sales in Japan (like PS2) every week are probably a reflection of the failure rate(rebuy) number.

    Just comparing the gamertags over at a website like virtuafighter.com from 12months ago(or EG) and now, and people's tags show both consoles owned, whereas previously it was a sea of green.

    I also suspect you'll run out of hits to play on your 360 long before a WiiU, non-kinect 720 or PS4 release, and want a Vita by years end, unless you are buy Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown in the summer to cover most of your gaming needs until 2013 :)

    You also seem to forget that the PS3 will have an even longer shelf life than the PS2 (maybe 15years) by virtue of the ever dimishing return of improving rasterization hardware.

  • kaufmann #83 3 weeks ago

    i love my ps2 it make me happy alltime

  • Dizzy #84 3 weeks ago

    @vizzini Dear god man... how do you get out of bed in the morning? You make no sense whatsoever. rasterization hardware? Lolz.

  • Spuzzell #85 3 weeks ago

    Ouch.

    A business model as a whole that needs some tweaking I'd say.

    As far as the gaming division goes, they'd have made a profit if they'd charged for multi-player over PSN exactly as MS charge for Live.

    Lets say 30 million subs at £35 a year for 4 years; = £3.5 billion.

    I would be ASTOUNDED if PSN works the same way on PS4.

    I'm pretty sure PlayStation+ will be required for online gaming next gen.

  • sjmlondon #86 3 weeks ago

    @woodnotes If you buy a Sony TV you are basically buying a rebadged Samsung panel with a Sony remote.

  • Schmoke-n-a-pancake #87 3 weeks ago

    Reading this, it's clear anyone who thinks the PS4 can be built to obliterate the Wii U in the power stakes is out of their mind. Sony simply can not afford to build an expensive console again.

  • DoctorFraud #88 3 weeks ago

    Bai bai sony. Your overpriced electronics and lacklustre games will not be missed.

  • vizzini #89 3 weeks ago

    @Dizzy
    Rasterization hardware typically refers to GPUs that have more reliance on fixed fast path processing making them less versatile for other tasks such as photon tracing (& current particle fx); which is the next big step up for graphics.

    The PS3 hardware is firmly in both camps (even more so than modern PCs), whereas the 360 is only just encroaching the OpenCL (high performance heterogeneous multi-core) camp, and isn't best placed to last the another 5 years with developer support (and the knock on consumer support) in the way the PS3 can realistically do.

  • skunkfish #90 3 weeks ago

    @Patch

    Thanks for making me smile this afternoon!

  • Spuzzell #91 3 weeks ago

    @vizzini

    Honestly, stop talking.

  • roz123 #92 3 weeks ago

  • Ryboy #93 3 weeks ago

    Anyone else not give a flying fuck about this 'news'?

  • MikeRox #94 3 weeks ago

    @Negotiator1 yeah they've taken a loss almost as great as MS took on the original Xbox, but that was positioning them in the market and is now starting to pay off long term. MS also had the benefit of very profitable software divisions completely absorbing any loss for the company overall.

    The strong Yen is probably also causing both Nintendo and Sony problems that Microsoft don't have to worry about though, the stronger the yen is, the less money Nintendo/Sony make on each console/game sold outside Japan. The weaker the dollar is, the more money MS make on each console/game sold outside the US.

  • NotSoSlim #95 3 weeks ago

    <quote>roz123 wrote:
    @Biker_Bob_1971 Vita will probably sell alright for a bit in the UK but its not going to be huge. Should fair better then it is in Japan though, thats a real disaster.</quote>

    No its not when PSP is still selling. Sony are clearly concentrating in Western market and too many on here and other sites are short sighted

  • Dizzy #96 3 weeks ago

    @NotSoSlim Yep... all is well. These are not the losses you are looking for.
    /waves hand

  • NotSoSlim #97 3 weeks ago

    <quote>DoctorFraud wrote:
    Bai bai sony. Your overpriced electronics and lacklustre games will not be missed.</quote>

    Yes mate lets has MS and Ninty fight it out which will leave MS by themseleves as Ninty on different cycle.

    Morons like you make people hate gamers

  • silverjon #98 3 weeks ago

    @ShiftyGeezer Too right. It's easy for us gamers to forget the games business is a business. And it's all about cold hard results. I fear the surgery required by Sony to compete once again, may cost them too much as a global competitor on so many fronts. Of course, easy for us to shout from the sidelines . . . :-)

    [edit - spelling]
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 15:27

  • NotSoSlim #99 3 weeks ago

    <quote>Dizzy wrote:
    @NotSoSlim Yep... all is well. These are not the losses you are looking for.
    /waves hand</quote>

    Guess i an wrong in thinking that Sony are not Western orientated right now with Vita? Didnt Sony just say they were or did the article posted on here lie?

    Bored of this. Heres hoping for a PS4

  • Calgon #100 3 weeks ago

    Well personally I always saw PS3 coming in 3rd place at the start of this gen, I never saw them making big losses near the end of this gen though(does not look good at all), this is where they all expect to rake in the the profits before moving on to the next gen. Well I'm not a fan of the Playstation brand personally(I believe Sega would still be going strong if not for Sony too but that's not the reason) but I think it would be sad for any of the platform holders to pull out, competition is healthy, plus there are a lot of people that do care(some a little too much but the same could be said about cars and what not) about their brand that would feel severely let down.

    Ah good old Vizzini spouting SDF damage control and technical dribble since 2006(sometimes seems to know what he's talking about, others when he's really reaching because he's blinded by his sheer bias for Sony... not so much lol).

    P.S: I thought about leaving a taunt to the aggressive PS3fanboys which have plagued the internet over the years and done Sony's image no favours but... oh dear I just commented about them didn't I, well I will stop there, that's all from me on that. :0
    Edited by 2 at 02/02/12 @ 15:53

  • GreyBeard #101 3 weeks ago

    Some people need to learn to look at figures more carefully. The PS3 is down .2m YTD (3 quarters so far), with the drop off all coming from Q1 where they lost .6m YoY due to the aftermath of the PSN hack. Q2 and Q3 shipments were up YoY, so it seems as likely as not Q4 will match that.

    As a business, PS3 is actually doing fine. Unfortunately the state of the Yen isn't doing them any favours (which if you look at what's happened at Nintendo shouldn't come as any surprise), and the natural disasters in Thailand and Japan have further undermined profitability.

  • Lucodeath #102 3 weeks ago

    @Calgon Vizzini lol, Exactly my thoughts aswell.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 15:52

  • GreyBeard #103 3 weeks ago

    Hitting the rate down button is easier than arguing against cold, hard, verified numbers eh Kids?

  • SvennoJ #104 3 weeks ago

    I'm not sure why anyone would neg Greybeard. Looking at the historical exchange rates for December, Sony made only 67% on each American sale compared to 2006 and 68% on each sale in Euros.

  • Calgon #105 3 weeks ago

    @GreyBeard

    Maybe they just didnt agree with a lot of what you said, you claimed you knew that the deflated Yen was the reason(it will have an effect but not to this extent surely you dont believe that), but most sources on the subject of Nintendos losses point at a declining handheld market which has been a big earner for them(the rise in smart phones and cheap smart phone games being the culprit) as for the natural disasters that would actually have an effect I agree but from their Japan sales only.

    Even looking closely at the numbers(although probably not as bad as it first appears taking the figures here at face value) you can't safely assume "all is well" with Sony and the Playstation business on the whole. It doesn't look quite to be going quite as smooth as you seemed to be trying to say is all, although I do fully expect to see a PS4 to be fair.

    edited: For clarity and typos... 5times. Thats all from me here anyway found this news surprising but Im sure Sony will handle it some way or another.
    Edited by 5 at 02/02/12 @ 16:37

  • miiiguel #106 3 weeks ago

    I doubt Sony's main problem is in the video-games division, yes it's in the red, but I can only imaginde their TV; Cameras and phones division. I know very litle about this, but it seems odd and there are no examples of a company who wants at the same time be mainstream and have "premium" prices with so many products, I mean, Apple can do that, but they only play on the mobile field, they don't venture in everything like Sony.

    And in this troubled times, I know many a fanboys in threads but when it hits the wallet they quickly ditch the fanboyness, there are exceptions, like vizi, but they need many, many vizzis.
    Edited by 1 at 02/02/12 @ 16:20

  • RawNinjaKid #107 3 weeks ago

    Apple devices are like a endless fad with "one toy to the next" that's worth the premium to consumers.
    It just got it, right now. With the innovative online digital ecosystem of itunes store, I think they deserve it.

    Rightly or wrongly, Sony has no such products/services with such a strong appeal. They might have had it with the first 2 playstations, but how things change fast in this era.

    Now in the TV business: there's Samsung/LG before Panasonic. Smartphone business is tough, even previous strong players such as Nokia and RIM are having their asses handed back to them. In gadgets electronics, there's well the Koreans and Taiwanese before domestic rivals like Canon.

    Don't see too many high-margin business, even if they do recover well. And we know R&D and investment is key in the Games platform hardware business.


    If I were CEO of Sony, I would sell or spin off its content business (apart from Playstation development), concentrate and streamline the electronics business with closer ties to the Playstation hardware. While diversify further into electronics away from just entertainment.
    Of course easier said than done.. but that's what I think!

  • Spuzzell #108 3 weeks ago

    @GreyBeard

    And how do the "cold hard facts" explain the massive losses also posted in 2008, 2009 and 2010?

    I'm going to hit the "neg" button now.