Next Xbox GPU based on £50 Radeon HD 6670 card - report

By Robert Purchese Published 25 January, 2012

6x more powerful than 360, 20% better than Wii U.

Update: Digital Foundry editor Richard Leadbetter has offered his thoughts on Microsoft possibly opting for a Radeon HD 6670-like GPU in the next Xbox.

"If the GPU story is true, it suggests that Microsoft is placing price-point ahead of performance," Leadbetter said.

"By PC standards, the Radeon HD 6670 is an unremarkable, entry-level enthusiast product aimed more towards the home cinema PC audience. It struggles to run Battlefield 3 at 20 frames-per-second on high settings at 1080p, and could maybe hit 30FPS in Crysis 2 at the same resolution."

"In a closed box environment with custom modifications and a dedicated development platform to support it, the chip could achieve much greater things (360 dev kits initially shipped with unremarkable X800 graphics cards, before getting X1800/X1900 upgrades). But it would be a curious choice for a platform holder looking to sustain another lengthy console lifecycle."

Original story: The graphics card (GPU) inside the next Xbox will be "akin to" the £50 Radeon HD 6670, a new report has suggested.

IGN heard from "sources close to the project" that the GPU will provide performance six times greater than Xbox 360, and 20 per cent greater than Wii U.

A Radeon HD 6670 card supports DirectX 11, multi-display output, 3D and 1080p.

Development kits matching the final system configuration of the next Xbox will be sent out in August 2012, apparently. And mass production of the Radeon HD 6670-based GPU should begin by the end of 2012.

'Next Xbox GPU based on £50 Radeon HD 6670 card - report' Screenshot radeon

I wonder how small it will be.

The new console itself will ship to shops in late October or early November 2013, IGN wrote.

The release date and dev kit dates we've heard before. However, this is the most specific a report has been about the graphics card inside the next Xbox.

We heard late last year that Microsoft planned two versions of its next Xbox. Both will bundle Kinect, although one machine will be a cheap, "pared down" set-top box; the other a "more fully featured", typical new console for hardcore gamers.

Will this Radeon HD 6670-like GPU be fitted inside both models?

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (242) Latest comment 3 weeks ago

  • 16bitworld #1 4 weeks ago

    I hope it's not true what happened to the cutting edge graphics card that could compare with the PC's latest at time of release... I'd rather they spend more on the gfx card and cost cut elsewhere. That or I'll wait for the PS4 to blow my mind this time round.

  • Sodding_Gamer #2 4 weeks ago

    Shit graphics card mayynn :( Hopefully the developers can rinse every bit of graphical power out of it! But this would not match the next gen unreal demo they did a while back! Looks like it will be a long way to go before anything will look like that demo (console wise)!

  • NotSoSlim #3 4 weeks ago

    Make sense if they want profit straight away but not great if true as it will be pretty outdated this time next year

  • menschenfracht #4 4 weeks ago

    So, WiiU is strictly 5 times as powerful as X360? 0_o
    Sounds interesting...

  • Kanselier #5 4 weeks ago

    This article confuses me, did you forgot to add a year somewhere Rob?

    Dev kits in August 2012.
    Mass production (of the Xbox 720, of the GPU?) in the end of 2012.
    Console ships in October or November (2012? 2013?).

  • Darren #6 4 weeks ago

    Well that is better than I expected, which was an HD 4850 enhanced with DX11 features including tessellation (this card probably *IS* equivalent to that anyway!), but it's still not particularly powerful by PC standards. In fact, it isn't even a mid-spec card but rather a low-spec one as the HD 68x0 is mid-range and the HD 69x0 high-range, though the HD 7xxx cards will replace them in time.

    This will no doubt be coupled with a 3.6 GHz 6-core PowerPC CPU (or similar) and uber-fast E-DRAM (framebuffer), hopefully 64 MB this time round rather than 10 MB to prevent the need for tiling, which should help give the next Xbox a significant power boost to help it compete with the PC for 18 months or so.

  • X201 #7 4 weeks ago

    Whichever GPU they choose. You can bet they'll bolt a massive fan to it, they won't want a repeat of the RRoD debacle.

  • LHH #8 4 weeks ago

    Oh dear.. 6670... hahahahahaha
    Hopefully a passively cooled 5770/6770 will be chosen instead
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:05

  • sir_tripod #9 4 weeks ago

    First off, "a report has suggested" this. It's not qualified as true.

    Secondly, graphics are easily managed by graphics cards. Games don't really push them *that* hard. The CPU, RAM and the data transfer is where the magic happens.

    Thirdly, how many companies can physically afford to spend the time and effort in developing games to a standard where their games make use of all that power? You're looking at probably half a dozen games (at most) per year which are the blockbusters that will need the power BUT that's not to say they'll be any good. Average ratios suggest you'll genuinely like two or three of them.

    Finally, you'll not see that much of an improvement in games. We're hitting a natural limit where the graphical quality can't realistically go up that much. 5-10 years ago, massive leaps were being made. Now it's down to how much development effort goes into the game (see L.A. Noire.) You'll probably get more improvement from a better TV.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 09:03

  • rudedudejude #10 4 weeks ago

    As MS turn the xbox into a home media pc, gaming gets relinquished in favour of the casual market?

    Twice as powerful as the Wii U eh? what's that like a Wii with an extra cooling fan on?
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:07

  • Badassbab #11 4 weeks ago

    I don't believe this.

  • Cjail #12 4 weeks ago

    Honestly I wold be happier to buy my PS4 for a significantly higher price than XBOX720 (100-150£)and have a far better graphic card than find myself stuck with an already low spec one for the years to come.
    As for the release date I still believe that that the end of 2013/beginning of 2014 will be the time for the next gen to show up.

    Anyway I think that is time to leave the past behind and finally have an Artificial Intelligence in our console ;)
    Edited by 3 at 25/01/12 @ 10:06

  • Pacmaninov #13 4 weeks ago

    This totally sux a massive lamewad if trueZorz



    It's because kinect is so flipping magical that gamers don't need 1080p 30/60 fps edge smoothing. Look at the vague gesture control. LOOK HOW SHINY IT IS.



    Pc for me next gen then



    @Sir_tripod, with the greatest disrespect, you are a mug.



    With a greater powerful graphics card comes greater responsibilities. The RAAM is part of it no? Edge smoothing and resolution improvements do have an untold effect on image quality. I'm going to say that anti aliasing is the most important of these. Hipsters like you who says 'we have reached the limit graphically and it is all down to developers', and are all whiny about the expense of developing - here is the rub:

    This entire generation has been limited by compromise. Do we have 2x antialiasing? No, because the cost is too high. Do we have deferred rendering? Do we have a short draw distance (more likely environment LOD) or the occasional stutter? Do we have pop in or higher resolution models/shadows.. Should we have female/male friendly soldiers as the memory footprint is twice the size with both. What kind of physics do we use. Hmm we need to compress ALL the files as disk space/memory bandwidth is too damn low. Ad infinitum/ad nauseam.



    More powerful graphics cards require less optimisation as you can just chuck raw horsepowers at your slightly inefficient code.


    You point to LA noire, a game with such scope that it does have technical foibles: Compression issues/stuttering, teh jaggiez just to mention a few that really do spoil the experience. (Don't come at me with your 'graphics don't matter to me - normal mapping is so mainstream.')



    Imagine the difference that euphoria tech could make in an extremely high detail, no pop in consistent frame rate world with long LoD etc. it makes me blush to think of a no compromise version or Red Dead Redemption.



    My dad once said 'building your own engine is like crawling around in the desert on your hands and knees.' - Increasing the horsepower of your machine adds the occasional vista from which you, the game developer, can drink.



    Sure CPU and other stuff make a difference by the way.



    Edit: reply to Sir_trifail

    Edit 2/3: Grr Steve Jobz
    Edited by 3 at 25/01/12 @ 09:46

  • Baihu1983 #14 4 weeks ago

    Troll report.

  • razzafazza #15 4 weeks ago

    this sounds pretty believable, not sure what high expectations people have for the next console generation but i think it will be a FULL HD upgrade resulting in games that look like Crysis 2 in high details/full HD on PC - and that is pretty damn good. (yeah you cant MAX crysis 2 with such a card but i always thought the minor visible differences between HIGH and MAX absolutely dont justify the performance drops associated with it)

    you have to keep in mind nobody (Sony/MS) wants another console that costs more than 300 bucks on release because its bound to be killed by the competition - no matter how justified higher prices might be or not.

    personally for me the "graphics race" is over. I ve played Crysis 2 in high details/DX11/full HD and i dont need more than that. Most of the time i m happy with far less (i.e. for example i really think Dark Souls looks pretty damn great despite running on completely outdated hardware in not-full HD ).

    Art Direction is far more important than tech anyhow. Despite the great tech behind it some maps in crysis 2 looks terrible bland & uninspired whereas other maps are an absolute eye-candy.

    my biggest hope for the next generation of consoles is a leap in other areas, most notably AI. its incredibly sad that 15year old Half Life ONEs marines are still "smarter" than the enemies you find in 2011 top shooters like Gears/COD/Uncharted & co.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:22

  • LHH #16 4 weeks ago

    @Pacmaninov inwhich case Microsoft win anyway as you'll need a copy of Windows...

  • crofty13 #17 4 weeks ago

    Just shows you where gamers are in Microsofts priorities.

  • unacomn #18 4 weeks ago

    Ha! My 5850 is more powerful. I feel all smug and full of myself, therefore I must gloat.:cool:

  • kaufmann #19 4 weeks ago

    lolz

  • Negotiator1 #20 4 weeks ago

    I this is true then count me out, I'll see what the PS4 has to offer, or I'll just keep updating my PC. I wanted one more console gen with cutting edge graphics, but Microsoft want to use a graphics card thats not even mid range today, by next year it will be a joke.

  • deded #21 4 weeks ago

    Only around 20% better than the WiiU would be laughable, although with Microsoft showing all signs of wanting to do a multimedia Wii I wouldn't be all that shocked.

    It seems unlikely to me that this represents final hardware. On the other hand this sounds just about good enough to scrape through if the devs can design specifically for it.

    It would probably leave Sony an exploitable tech gap, although there's the price balance and that tech gap has to be noticeable to gamers or it may as well not exist.

  • des #22 4 weeks ago

    another day,another rumor

    Ign and tech rumors don't mix well.

    One thing is for sure-Wii U specs are growing like crazy and if they continue growing at this rate high end PCs will be outclassed by September.

  • geox30 #23 4 weeks ago

    How can they say that it is 20% faster than the WiiU when the specs of it have not been announced or leaked? If this turns out to be true, I am happy with a Nintendo home console that powerful.

    Edit:Do not confuse PC hardware with its equivalent on a console. Mid end today's hardware will translate to a lot more power on a console. Just think that most games are equal on consoles and PCs when the former rely on 6 year old tech.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:37

  • arcam #24 4 weeks ago

    I really can't imagine this is true.

    Although I wouldn't mind if it was - it'd be a boost for PC gaming at least.

  • Dizzy #25 4 weeks ago

    When the 360 came out, that GPU was also mid range.

  • Jonny5Alive7 #26 4 weeks ago

    It could be a load of rubbish, until we know for definite everything is just speculation.

  • Brownstudy #27 4 weeks ago

    It could also be for the 'pared-down' model.

  • weedar #28 4 weeks ago

    If this is correct, I'll stick to my GTX 560 TI PC and wait for PS4.

    EDIT: But it will depend on the exclusives. I am tempted to get a Wii-U just to play Mario. If there are enough good exclusives for the next box, I'll probably buy it no matter how crappy the hardware.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:44

  • Toothball #29 4 weeks ago

    Oh yeah, I forgot about the tech debates that precede new consoles. Whatever the new hardware is, it never sounds as good as whatever is in PCs at the time, yet developers go on to create magic with it for five years or so. I don't really care what goes into the box, so I'll be back when they start talking about what's going to come out of it.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:41

  • GAmbrose #30 4 weeks ago

    It's more likely to be the 6870, surely?

    By the time Xbox is released to manufacture, they should be much cheaper for AMD to manufacture/supply and much cheaper for Microsoft to source and they can run stuff at 1080p.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:43

  • Whizzo #31 4 weeks ago

    I'm not sure I'd trust IGN to tell me the correct time.

  • defragg #32 4 weeks ago

    @Dizzy
    But when the next xbox comes out (late 2013 i guess), that card will be low low end.

  • makariel #33 4 weeks ago

    If that's true: goodbye xbox360+1, hello ps4 - unless sony opts for the Raspberry Pi GPU for their next console, of course :p

  • telboy007 #34 4 weeks ago

    @Cjail You will have to pay a significantly higher price for the PS4 anyway.

  • roz123 #35 4 weeks ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft decide now is the time to change strategy on how much hardware costs. At this point they have gone from a new entry with the original XBox to the console of choice for the "hardcore" console gamer and have built a strong brand name.
    They did this by selling hardware at a loss but have barely made any profit (if at all) and if they want to turn this into a highly profitable part of the business then they must start making money on the hardware or radically change some other aspect. Right now Microsoft must be looking over at Apple running away in new markets and think "we chose the wrong option"
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:46

  • Mr.Spo #36 4 weeks ago

    Given we don't even know what's inside Wii U, I don't believe this.

  • sugarbaron #37 4 weeks ago

    Anyone else remember a time when consoles actually outperformed PCs? Maybe the PC market just moves too fast these days but I really can't get excited about a new console thats going to use a gfx chip thats not even as good as the one currently in my PC.

    Next gen consoles should be developing next gen tech, not using current gen stuff; but then I guess we have the success of the Wii to thank for this lazy way of thinking.

  • Atolm #38 4 weeks ago

    I recall reading that the Nextbox will use two off the shelf GPU's. So perhaps two of these then, is what the rumor was all about.

  • Darksjeik #39 4 weeks ago

    "By PC standards, the Radeon HD 6670 is an unremarkable, entry-level enthusiast product"

    An HD6950 is an entry level enthousiast product, a 6670 isn't even close to "enthousiast"

  • mccappind #40 4 weeks ago

    Trying to compare an Xbox to a PC graphic cards is like apples and oranges. An Xbox is highly optimized to do 1 thing, and the games for it are written specifically to work with it. It doesn't need the highest powered graphics hardware to run it's games effectively.
    This obviously won't be comparable to its PC counterpart

  • miiiguel #41 4 weeks ago

    I have no idea how many pixelzors a ATI 6934 has nor how fast a ATI LX90934 go, I'm enjoying Deus Ex on my 360 a lot though. Will buy them games and consoles when they come out, either way.

    And I'm getting realy confused here. What we know so far about next gen:

    - Don't know Wii U specs but it'll be 20% cooler than this gen.
    - Next Xbox will be 6 times nicer than the U.
    - PS4 will blow everyones' minds, nobody knows what it'll feaure but it'll be so awesome one can't even come up with bs like with the other 2.
    - One of the 3 won't have a new console next gen.
    - PC will have lots of GPU's and CPU's. Shame about the games.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 09:59

  • inutaihanyou #42 4 weeks ago

    Looks like IGN is fishing for hits again

  • kaufmann #43 4 weeks ago

    who cares for gpu anymore, it's the art that matters. the race for better graphics ended long time ago (in mid 2000s) and if you overslept it, good morning. the best looking game that i have played is prince of persia sands of time, and it was released in 2003 LOL it's the finest example that art > how many poligon's your character's ass has and how shiny it is.

  • irve77 #44 4 weeks ago

    If this is true and your talking a 20% boost over Wii U then microsoft are dead in the water.
    I can understand the under powered entry level box for casuals and then offering them an ( expensive ) upgrade path.

    But it's also got to compete with the PS4 which should be designed on the basis of a 10 yr life , Onlive et al and even iTV and googel TV's which might open up mobile phone type games directly onto your tv

  • tankboi #45 4 weeks ago

    @sir_tripod

    You will actually find that the GFX card does a HUGE amount of work, and do indeed get stressed. You know what makes PC's so damn noisy? The GFX card fans. Why? Because they get really REALLY hot. Why? Because they DO ALL THE WORK.

    By 'get a new TV' I presume you mean 'wait for new TV technology'? If so, then how do you expect to push to a much higher resolution without a decent GFX card?
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 10:08

  • Pacmaninov #46 4 weeks ago

    @LHH
    Yeah! Eff them super corporations!

  • tossum #47 4 weeks ago

    @Dizzy This card is already low-end, not mid-end. What will it be in a years time? Bell-end is what it will be Mr Dizzy. If this rumour is true then all eyes on you Sony...

  • miiiguel #48 4 weeks ago

    If this is true, Sony won't have a console, check the other rumour. It's true.

  • photoboy #49 4 weeks ago

    I think MS could be making a mistake here. With the 360, Microsoft came up with a great architecture- particularly ATI's cutting edge Xenos chip, the 10MB of eDRAM attached to it and the unified memory structure.

    However MS were also very lucky that Sony were complacent and arrogant- the PS3 was powerful on paper but even today harnessing that power is still tricky for many developers, leaving the PS3 and 360 more or less on par.

    With the PS4 I don't see Sony being complacent or making the same mistakes they made this time. So if MS think an overclocked Xenon coupled with an old ATI card is going to compete I think they could be in for a serious shock. Once MS have picked their hardware they're stuck with it for the next 5 years. Sony will just select a more powerful graphics chip and take the coveted "most powerful console" crown. With the PS4 likely releasing a year after the 720 anyway, the cost to Sony of using a more powerful GPU will be lower.

    It's a tricky one for MS, but they must have weighed these factors up and perhaps come to the conclusion that launching first and getting a year's head start is more important than having the most powerful system long term...

  • anthonypappa #50 4 weeks ago

    ps4 should go for raw power without the frills like the ps3 fat had, pointless card readers etc.

    however could this GPU be just be for the mentioned set top box model? and kinect built into the hardcore models also would be a mistake in my opinion, though they do seem adamant in forcing it forward.

    the two models route could be a big mistake if the differences are much more pronounced than the various 360 models.

  • thesonglessbird #51 4 weeks ago

    Surely the important part is "performance six times greater than the XBOX360"?

    Stick the current 360 GPU in a PC and you'd never get close to the performance the 360 gives it.

  • FarbrorBaku #52 4 weeks ago

    Rumors rumors rumors, pinch of salt and alll that.

  • tossum #53 4 weeks ago

    @sugarbaron Yep, I remember a mate of mine getting all smug cos the Jaguar could do polys better then my 486. Then we compared doom and he shut up. Then he pointed to the 3DO. Then I pointed to its price tag. Good days good days

  • obscured021 #54 4 weeks ago

    a GTX 460 or 470 is what they should aim for, might add an extra 100 to the price but would be worth it

  • deadmonkeyuk #55 4 weeks ago

    Everyone take a deep breath, The Xbox 360 has shown it is able to produce some great looking graphics. If true that the new system is 6x better than the 360, it is going to be amazing.

  • bad09 #56 4 weeks ago

    "Anyone else remember a time when consoles actually outperformed PCs?"

    No because that's never happened consoles have always been "underspec" and out of date compared to PC even at launch due to the development time and the nature of the ever evolving PC graphics card market and of course cost to make and sell the consoles.

    You 'ain't never getting a 300 quid or less console to outperform PC hardware. Even at for the silly price it was originally the PS3 isn't the best graphically as we know with the cheaper 360 outdoing it more often than not even if it is only slightly.

    As for the article it is probably is right, as others have said it may seem a low card to compare to but the GPU will surely be custom and work within the optimized dedicated console. 6 times the performance of 360 doesn't sound to shabby.

  • deadmonkeyuk #57 4 weeks ago

    @thesonglessbird Agree 100% The 360 GPU on paper looks poor, but can produce some great results.

  • mcmothercruncher #58 4 weeks ago

    Sir-tripod in "graphics cards can easily handle graphics" shocker!

  • RevanNL #59 4 weeks ago

    MS is making it pretty easy, PS4 it is then. I do not want to own Kinect in any form, so they can shove this one up their ass. Shame, as I do love the 360

  • mccappind #60 4 weeks ago

    @obscured021 It doesn't work like this. . short story long....Console Gfx cards get more bang for the buck! Consoles are designed to do everything that a pc doesn't on a hardware/software level, it has an os that runs smooth and error free as possible with little to no cpu over head unlike windows freeing up system reasources for 3d rendering, sound or phyics. Please don't compare GPU's.

  • Sodding_Gamer #61 4 weeks ago

    @RevanNL

    Couldnt agree more. I love my 360 and ps3. But I really am getting sick to death of implementing kinect into everything. Especially into the AAA games now, ala mass effect 3. It really isn't the way forward. Microsoft should just let their idea stay with Nintendo.

  • jellyBelly #62 4 weeks ago

    so the Wii u is 480% more powerful than the 360 then?

  • koopa #63 4 weeks ago

    If this is true, I doubt Sony will be taking a risk by making a (significantly) more powerful and expensive console, especially because multi-platform games would probably be made with WiiU/NextXbox in mind. Maybe MS liked WiiU's specs/price point and decided to join them and leave Sony with tough decisions...

  • Dafub #64 4 weeks ago

    @Atolm I agree if their intention is to have the 720 built as an SOC from day one like all the IOS devices are. it would be easier to intergrate two simpler and smaller gpus into such a setup then a larger more complex GPU. an Soc setup from the begining would save alot interms of cost energy consumption and heat output.
    Plus it should be noted that what has made both the 360 and original xbox the consoles with the best GPU in their generations was the customizations Microsoft made I believe it was programmeable shader support on the original Xbox
    AND SPU's on the 360

  • mccappind #65 4 weeks ago

    @Dafub Not to mention AMD has just released the first 32nm GPU. No doubt the tecnhology will benifit consoles with regards to power / heat

  • DrStrangelove #66 4 weeks ago

    I don't believe it, but if it were true, the PS4 would probably be the most powerful next-gen console, because I don't see Sony going anywhere but aiming for high-end performance.

  • nickthegun #67 4 weeks ago

    Cheap console in 'does not have bleeding edge PC components' shocker!

  • Shadders #68 4 weeks ago

    I think the real story here is that the Wii U is 5x more powerful than 360 - I didn't see that coming!

  • inutaihanyou #69 4 weeks ago

    If this is true, its still obviously not a problem. This GPU is much more powerful than the GPU the current 360 uses, that should tell us all the difference.

    When your using a GPU in a console, combined with the dedicated CPU and memory units, all of that power goes into the system for games allocation, there is no extra shit for it to do. That is why the 360, which had a relatively weak GPU at the time which is positively ancient for today's standards, produced much better results than the straight assessment of the GPU would have told you would be the case.

    That in combination with certain optimizations gives the console much more longevity.

    We have to understand that this(if it is confirmed) is not the end of the world, as this set up can still put out very impressive visuals for a dedicated unit.

    I would not think that Sony, which spent years(and even today) trying to recoup the costs of making a unit that is the most powerful with the most cost, would want to bury themselves into that kind of hole again.(having to spend the entire next generation crawling out of it)
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 10:50

  • StooMonster #70 4 weeks ago

    @DrStrangelove the PS4 would probably be the most powerful next-gen console

    "Most powerful" has never won a console generation though, so unless they make huge margins on each one sold it's not a very sensible strategy.

  • tankboi #71 4 weeks ago

    @mccappind

    Whilst I agree with you about not comparing consoles to PC's, I have to argue that actually 'more bang for buck' is not a totally realistic claim when looking at GPUs. The GPU is hardly used at all by an OS, and what power is used is negligible. Most modern GPUs even turn themselves off or go into a dormant state when a game or 3D intensive application is not being used. Power-saving, an'all that. Save the planet ;)

    EDIT:

    LOL@ negative points for this post. FFS what is the average EG-reader age?? 12!? There isn't even anything to neg in this comment! It's just a fact! WTF is wrong with you lot? Its hilarious that you actually even bother to click on that little button in these posts...do you think anyone gives a shit? Does it give you a sense of control and empowerment? Cute.

    Christ the internet is a strange place. I don't see why EG even has those buttons. What do they achieve? Bafflement I suppose.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 11:30

  • tankboi #72 4 weeks ago

    Why oh why choose ATI over Nvidia.

    Schoolboy error, MS. Schoolboy error.

  • Darren #73 4 weeks ago

    @GAmbrose - An HD 6870 would run too hot to be practical in the small case a console uses even with a die-shrink to 28nm (like the new HD 7970 uses). The last thing Microsoft needs is another Xbox 360 launch disaster which saw a good number of machines fail due to poor design and overheating. They may be playing it safe and opting for a lower-spec HD 6670 card on a 28nm wafer because of this.

    Also, remember that the design of the hardware is not the same as that of a PC, especially if they again use E-DRAM, so combined with a multi-core PowerPC CPU and (I expect) 4 GB of unified memory, the next Xbox would be more powerful than any equivalent PC running a 1 GB HD 6670 with 4 GB of system memory. If Microsoft are planning on ramming Kinect 2.0 or whatever it'll be called down our throats next generation then the next Xbox may not be a powerhouse at all (if true, said to only be 20% more powerful than the Wii U; Nintendo have never been at the forefront of graphics technology and prefer instead to keep costs down and be profitable so that doesn't sound too impressive at all). The new Xbox will obviously still show an improvement over the seven year old 360 but it may not be as impressive as many were hoping for. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony went down this route as well as traditionally they and Microsoft have always made hardware at a loss unlike Nintendo. In this economy they may have decided to follow Nintendo and focus on less powerful but profitable hardware.

    It's all speculation at the moment though and this article may prove to be completely untrue.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 10:55

  • Dafub #74 4 weeks ago

    @mccappind yeah a 32nm or even 28nm version of the suggested GPU mass produced in the millions would be very cheap with low heat output and energy comsumption. As a result it could be run at clock cycles a good bit higher then the PC card
    was as well.

  • Darksjeik #75 4 weeks ago

    Let me make sure I get this absolutely straight: Late NEXT year they are releasing a console powering a gpu that was lower tier LAST year.

  • Hindle #76 4 weeks ago

    So if true the next Xbox will only be a Wii - Gamecube jump in terms of graphics which is dissapointing.

  • Darren #77 4 weeks ago

    @tankboi - Microsoft used NVIDIA for the first Xbox's GPU but had some kind of falling out with them hence the decision to switch to AMD for the 360's GPU. That proved to be a wise decision looking back as the PS3's own NVIDIA GPU is generally acknowledged to be inferior to the 360's own GPU but makes up for that with its more powerful Cell CPU.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 11:06

  • Pacmaninov #78 4 weeks ago

    Why does everybody whip out the ps3 as the failed power console of this generation?
    The statement of its superior power is true now - in the wake of dedicated architectural programming!
    At launch ps3 was less 'powerful' and was more expensive... That is why it bombed. The unreal engine barely ran on the thing! 3rd party games suffered and still suffer due to its lack of memory, and if they don't offload shizzle to the SPUs. If that price point went into a 'conventional' architecture then It would be a different story.

  • Lukree #79 4 weeks ago

    I had the original Xbox and 360, but of the sound of this I am gonna stick with pc as I have been in few year now...

  • Darren #80 4 weeks ago

    @Hindle - If the next Xbox is six times more powerful than the 360 as claimed then it will certainly not be the same as the jump from the GameCube to Wii! The Wii's graphics are pretty much on a par with the GameCube, offering only minor improvements and more video memory. This is why the Wii can run GameCube titles flawlessly as it has basically the same hardware inside it, just a little more powerful. I'd say the Wii was only 10-20% more powerful than the GameCube at most.

  • LittleRiver #81 4 weeks ago

    Would have hoped for a little more, after all a little more would only cost a little more...

    What bothers me, is that processing power is being cut to accommodate the Kinect tech at an intended price point.

    There is no point in comparing a future console with future PC gaming, if reports are to be believed MS wants the new console to be an all-singing, all-dancing TV media-box- powerful enough to keep console gamers happy while encouraging the massively untapped casual market.

    All I really want from a next-gen console is the ability have bigger maps, more players and more in game assets i.e. BF3 on PC.

  • informed1 #82 4 weeks ago

    The WiiU would have more gpu power than the next Xbox if this were true. Although it would have a weaker tesselation unit.

  • byakuya83 #83 4 weeks ago

    If it cannot match PC performance for games available on the current-gen of consoles I can see this console going the way of the Dreamcast.

    I remember being disappointed by many Dreamcast games which were simply ports from PSX and N64 that looked only slightly better.

    Will this look significantly better than the 360 or PS3? How will this handle AI and physics?

  • mccappind #84 4 weeks ago

    @Dafub Indeed, also note its based only on the 6670. I'm not going to speculate but it would only make sense to manufacture at 32nm and ramp up the clock speeds. The new ATI 7970's look amazing. I read a benchmark on the power consuming and idle / load power. Would be easy for them to ramp up the clock/Mem speeds

  • frod. #85 4 weeks ago

    The Wii GPU and CPU clockspeed is exactly 3x that of the Gamecube.

  • Velios #86 4 weeks ago

    At the time the XBOX360 first came out did it have a cutting edge graphics card?

    NO

    Did the XBOX360 last over 5 years and dominate the console marketplace?

    YES

  • Cjail #87 4 weeks ago

    @inutaihanyou
    You have to consider another factor: mass producing graphic cards, even high-performance ones, will grant Sony to have a net profit.
    Hig-performance cards nowadays cost so much because they are not mass produced, not as much as consoles anyway, but IF Sony starts mass producing them (in the numbers of tens of millions) it will surely achieve lower production cost that will allow them to sell the PS4 for a much reasonable price than we imagine.

  • byakuya83 #88 4 weeks ago

    It seems Microsoft are now focused on cost and reliability. Kinect and Live is where they will make their money. I think if a new console launched at £200 or less we would all rush out to buy it.

  • Darren #89 4 weeks ago

    @LittleRiver - If Microsoft and Sony intend following Nintendo philosophy of lower-spec, profitable-from-Day-One hardware then hardcore gamers may be a little disappointed but the games will still look and run better than anything possible now on the PS3 and 360.

  • mccappind #90 4 weeks ago

    @byakuya83
    If it cannot match PC performance for games available on the current-gen of consoles I can see this console going the way of the Dreamcast
    I'm in no way shape or form bashing consoles but they never will match the performance of a top of the line PC.
    Also that is such a vague comment as there are so many variations of PC hardware to "compare console performance"?

  • lucky_jim #91 4 weeks ago

    I wouldn't be too concerned about the graphics card, if it wasn't for all the evidence that the next Xbox is going to be all about jumping around in front of fucking Kinect whilst adverts are thrown at us.

    For me, the 360 has been a superb console, the horribleness of the recent dash update notwithstanding. I've got this uneasy feeling that it's successor is going to be like the Wii, but with more ads (and with Kinect replacing waggle).

  • Canyarion #92 4 weeks ago

    All I read here was "Wii U 5x stronger than 360".

  • UKwoods #93 4 weeks ago

    If anything, this makes me more interested in the Wii U. I thought it was going to be 10-20% more powerful than current consoles, not 500%!!!!!

  • tankboi #94 4 weeks ago

    @Darren

    I didn't realise that. Shame they couldn't kiss and make-up. Nvidia really are superior cards (especially when taking the drivers into account).

    I have had nothing but grief when using ATI (I have switched back and forth between ATI and Nvidia for years).

    Always very powerful, but about as stable as Vanessa Felts on a diet.

  • rudedudejude #95 4 weeks ago

    If it comes with an emotion engine I might consider buying it, but only IF.

  • inutaihanyou #96 4 weeks ago

    @Cjail True, but Sony has said in the past that any changes they make to their primary consoles going forward will most likely come down to more advanced CELL processing units inside of the console, and finding more ways to make the CELL shoulder the burden of computations. Meaning that the basic set up set by the PS3 will still be there. A moderately weak off the shelf CPU/GPU in combination with a more powerful CELL would do their work as its done with the PS3, but it would also give them the same problems that they've had so far with the PS3 concerning cost.

    I'm not disagreeing with what you said about mass production driving down costs. I'm only saying that Sony has said that it would not be their first choice of direction for a next gen console.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 11:27

  • Fantomex #97 4 weeks ago

    I'm not really concerned about graphics too be honest. I thought the next gen of consoles would be more about processing than graphics any way.

  • munki83 #98 4 weeks ago

    Seems reasonable to me. With development costs as high as they are a huge jump in graphics capability mite price some companies out of the market. Will be surprised if the card will be able to do 1080p at 60fps though

  • Pacmaninov #99 4 weeks ago

    @Fantomex
    What does that even mean?

  • Trigg3rHippie #100 4 weeks ago

    There is a long way from now to 2013. Release of an outdated hardware on launch?:(

  • byakuya83 #101 4 weeks ago

    @mccappind what I meant by this is that games such as Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2 are available on current consoles. However, the new Xbox might not even play those games with an acceptable framerate at 1080p on high settings - so cannot even perform at the expected standard of current PCs with games already available. That doesn't bode well for the future.

  • Zephro #102 4 weeks ago

    They will also probably going for a dedicated system on a chip design like AMD, Nvidia and Intel are currently pushing. That plus being able to program to the metal will provide some massive speed increases. Also if it's low power enough it'll be more reliable and breakdown less.

  • matts1900 #103 4 weeks ago

    That doesn't add up. The Wii U was quoted as being around the same, or slightly more powerful than the 360. If the new GPU is 6x more powerful than the current 360, but only 20% more powerful than the Wii U, then that makes the Wii U 5x as powerful as the 360, if my approximate maths skills are working?

  • Skooch #104 4 weeks ago

    I get fed up with the constant PC vs. Console comparisons, they are two different beasts. It isn't really fair to compare something that costs £200 with a top-end PC costing perhaps 6-10x more.

    Consoles aren't just about raw graphical power, they are about accessibility, the family, living-room entertainment - and all of this has to come at a price point that makes business sense. Anyone expecting bleeding-edge tech in any of the next consoles will be disappointed.

  • Okamiwolf #105 4 weeks ago

    Hey, they've gotta cut costs somewhere thanks to the bundled Kinect. It's possible Microsoft really is thinking of abandoning the hard core in favour of soccer moms.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 12:03

  • Dangerous_Dan #106 4 weeks ago

    Yeah right, the Wii U is going to be 5 times more powerful than the Xbox360. We also gonna put that in an even smaller casing and add a multi touch color tablet into the bundle - all that for a competitive price of course... eh no.
    There is at least one wrong info in that rumor.

  • Po1ymorph #107 4 weeks ago

    I would disregard any of these "reports". it's all conjecture until Microsoft come out and tell us the spec's.

  • FluffyTucker #108 4 weeks ago

    Well there goes gaming then, cba with PC gaming any more and console gaming's a casual friendly dead duck. Fuck it all.

  • Nova1977 #109 4 weeks ago

    that is a terrible card, terrible!

  • Alestes #110 4 weeks ago

    Hmm, if this rumor is true and the nextgen graphics are based on the Radeon 6670 (which I bought for my PC half a year ago), then I will be pleased.

    The 6670 only consume about 60W. Then maybe 60W for the CPU and then 20W for various misc stuff, we have a 140W machine. Quite a difference from the 200W beasts the 360 and PS3 were at launch. So it's a step in the right direction at least, and should make things like RROD and YLOD more rare :)

    Not to mention that by 2013 they probably lowered the energy requirements even further, so maybe 100W by then, which was what the PS2 used at launch. And then by the time the game library starts to get good and it's worth buying one, maybe even below 50W, like the PS2 slim.

  • deded #111 4 weeks ago

    @Velios
    Did the XBOX360 last over 5 years and dominate the console marketplace?
    Er, no, not really. The Wii dominated, I don't see how anyone else can claim to have done so.

    I take your overall point though - being the most advanced console doesn't mean all that much (until every game gets a thousand side-by-side comparison videos of course), but price point might be one of the major factors in the next gen, as will no doubt services.

    I think a point worth making is that as the graphics ramp up the noticeable differences between 'slightly more advanced' and 'slightly less advanced' are going to become so small that most people (besides the aforementioned video watchers) will struggle to notice.

  • Hieronymus #112 4 weeks ago

    I refuse to believe this. Consoles should match the high end pc's of the day they are released. If they don't they will fall behind after 1 year already performance wise, that would be a really stupid investment from Microsoft. I'm binning this in the bullshit trashcan

  • zubnut #113 4 weeks ago

    I call bullshit on this one. its not even worth commenting on... oh bugger

  • TheEarlOfZinger #114 4 weeks ago

    Sounds like bollocks.

  • CamelCarcass #115 4 weeks ago

    I'm using a Radeon 4600 on my pc, so after playing BF3 at 3 fps, this actually sounds good hahaha

  • CamelCarcass #116 4 weeks ago

    Hold up, multi-display output on the xbox..?
    I'm sensing some awesome co-op times ahead :D

  • sourc0r #117 4 weeks ago

    @Darren with this card the next xbox won't compete with the PC 'for 18 months', it would have lost the minute of its release.

    you can't do 1080p with that.. at least you really should not. I really hope they're talking bullshit here or this one's in fact the graphics chip of the low cost model. I refuse to believe that this piece of shit is going to ring in the next xbox generation..

  • manic_mouse #118 4 weeks ago

    @Dizzy

    This is a low-range GPU from nearly a year before the thing could possibly launch. When it DOES launch the thing will be a joke. I suspect MS are trying to take a middle road between what the 360 was this time and what the Wii was, to get both markets. It may manage neither, as kinect seems pretty useless for anything outside mini-games and with a crippled GPU the PS4 will probably stomp all over it given how Sony have stated with the Vita that they don't compromise on hardware.

    360 was a home run for MS, but if they go the cheap-hardware-gimmick-controller route they might be in trouble. They don't have the talented devs and exclusive franchises that Nintendo used to prop the Wii up. But clearly they see the money printing machine that the Wii is and want a piece of that pie.

  • memeroot #119 4 weeks ago

    Why bother if I have an hdmi lead from a pc.

    360 had a great graphics card on release and was equal to my 1.5k laptop. Technically the laptop still runs and im on xbox 3604....

  • MMMMMM7 #120 4 weeks ago

    I hope this isn't true. If the new xbox wants to
    be capable to play games like Battlefield 3 or the next
    Metro 2033 with decent DirectX 11 tessellation features
    it will need at least a HD 6790 card. We also don't know
    the video memory they will carry. 1.2GB is the minimum for
    me.

    Will have to wait and see the final and official specs
    that Microsoft will announce. Until then, I hope they make
    the right decisions and release a true next generation
    console.

  • ThePissartist #121 4 weeks ago

    Sounds like bollocks.

    At least I hope it is, if not I'll be running back to Sony pretty quick.

  • CaptainKid #122 4 weeks ago

    Is Microsoft now aiming towards the casual market?

    -Almost no exclusives anymore (Gears, Halo, Forza, that's it.)
    -Kinect build in for new Xbox
    -And now this; an underpowered new console.

  • zuul #123 4 weeks ago

    Hmm, www.heise.de reported last week that apparently since end of 2011 IBM is producing CPU/GPU combo chips called "Oban" for the NextBox dev kits. Those shall be based on AMD's Southern-Islands-Architecture (Graphics Core Next) and their power is similar to the HD-7900 cards.

    That sounds somewhat more reasonable for a system expected in end-2013 thats supposed to last for years to come.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 12:47

  • UnblestCarpet #124 4 weeks ago

    Some interesting analysis of potential GPU's and performance here: h ttp://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458935

    Basically, if they were to go with the hd 6670, then the console should be able to do similar graphics at 1080p with 60fps....

    It all seems a bit disappointing to me. I want to be wowed and don't mind paying £100 more for that.

  • DrStrangelove #125 4 weeks ago

    @StooMonster
    "Most powerful" has never won a console generation though, so unless they make huge margins on each one sold it's not a very sensible strategy.
    I'm well aware of that, I didn't want to say that'd be good for Sony, really only that it'd probably be the most powerful console. It's just what I expect considering Sony's current philosophy, and I'd expect the Next Box to significantly outsale the PS4.

    I once compared the sales numbers of all console generations since gen.3 (NES/Master System), and each time the weaker performance console dominated the market. Similarly with handhelds, the Game Boy won over the Game Gear, the DS over the PSP and I think the same will happen with 3DS and Vita.

    There is one exception however: the SNES outsold the Mega Drive--although quite interestingly, that one was the closest a console war ever came to a draw. Powerful consoles just seem to struggle, so it doesn't seem wise going that way.

    If anyone's interested, back then I made a little chart which you can look up here.

    It's not quite sophisticated (didn't want to put too much time in it and omitted also-rans like Atari) or scientific (used numbers from Wikipedia) but I think it gives a nice approximate overall picture. I also added total sales of the four console makes, and an average sales-per-time comparison considering the time each company produced consoles.

    Three things I found interesting are: Sony still sold the most consoles overall, Sony was even more successful sales-per-year-wise since they entered the console market 11 years after Nintendo, and Nintendo was slowly going down the hill until they struck back with the Wii.

  • Cjail #126 4 weeks ago

    @inutaihanyou
    You know, I was not aware of that; now I have a far better picture of the situation.
    Thank you very much: thumbs up.

  • bodhi85uk #127 4 weeks ago

    Some people are missing the point here. It doesnt need to be a 6970 or 590 to achieve fantastic visuals, because the devs have much more access to the hardware than they would with the overheads of a Windows operating system, and because all the machines are the same you can optimise the hell out of it.

    Do people honestly not understand this, before they post crap like "shit gfx card lol"? It makes my head hurt how stupid some people are.

    Besides, a majority developers are making games primarily for console first, so even if you believe its a shit graphics card and post how amazing your PC is by comparison, you wont get the true benefit of that £300 card unless youre playing a true PC exclusive. Otherwise youre generally playing a console game with AA and sharper textures
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 13:00

  • scoop #128 4 weeks ago

    Not as fast as a Raspberry Pi then :)

    (couldn't resist)

  • scoop #129 4 weeks ago

    @bodhi85uk

    Conjecture makes my head hurt. Respect for Digital Foundry, but sometimes I think people say things for lack of anything better to say (and because they're paid to say *something*...)

  • dfunked #130 4 weeks ago

    Buying the card for the PC would set you back £50, but I bet it'll cost them a minute fraction of that when it's mass produced at the volume needed for console manufacture!!
    If true, they've skimped on one of the most important areas :(

  • Sid-Nice #131 4 weeks ago

    Don't worry, this is just the low end Xbox Next; the high end Xbox Next GPU has more power than a Dyson.

  • Progguitarist #132 4 weeks ago

    Microsoft have nothing to worry about. All the achievement tarts will be lining up regardless of what they put out there.

  • DigitalScars #133 4 weeks ago

    I seriously hope it's not true however it's all just rumor and speculation for now so i'll wait till there's some solid facts.

    Either that or MS is going to go down a money grabbing route having upgradeable GPU before we know it we will see stores selling overpriced 360 branded GPU's. This wouldn't surprise me as of late it feels consoles are mimicing pc's and vice versa!

  • Uncompetative #134 4 weeks ago

    1 TB HDD on all models, or I'm not buying one...

  • Sid-Nice #135 4 weeks ago

    The Next Xbox GPU will have 20% more power than the Wii U? That's amazing, especially when we don't know what's inside the Wii U.

  • ras_kho #136 4 weeks ago

    So WII U is 5x greater than xbox 360?!!!!!!!!!!
    Gears of war 3 << Super Mario & Zelda ?!!!!!!
    I've seen wii u tech demo and it was not even on par with 360 or ps3's,so how can you say something like this????!!!!

  • Caimbeul #137 4 weeks ago

    Will echo other comments. IF true, rather dissapointing. Yes it will perform better than it dod for PC because code can be optimisd were as PC code has to be more generalized but still it IS dissapointing. My old 5850 blows this out of the water. If they spent a bit more on the card (i am sure AMD will price well seeing how many are likely to sell over the years) they could really make an impact.

  • MZ #138 4 weeks ago

    Calling BS on this one. Seems way too underpowered.

  • legalaffairs #139 4 weeks ago

    @Pacmaninov your dad is/was a mug

  • DrStrangelove #140 4 weeks ago

    @JAGUARCD32x

    Perhaps, my fault, not actually familiar with the specs. But the SNES had all sorts of fancy stuff, like the aforementioned more colours and better sound, but also Mode 7-effects, and even real 3D with Super FX Chip games like Starwing... didn't it also have higher sprite count? the result made the Mega Drive look pretty inferior imho.

    It's true though that some games suffered from extreme slowdown (bad memories of Super R-Type there) but I always thought that was mostly because of bad coding... compare that one with Axelay for example, which not only looked far better and had a lot more detail, but had nearly no slowdown problems at all. Also, games like Axelay blew my mind graphics-wise, there was no way a Mega Drive could have done that.

  • spekkeh #141 4 weeks ago

    By PC standards, the Radeon HD 6670 is an unremarkable, entry-level enthusiast product aimed more towards the home cinema PC audience. It struggles to run Battlefield 3 at 20 frames-per-second on high settings at 1080p, and could maybe hit 30FPS in Crysis 2 at the same resolution.
    This is a bollocks comparison of course. My three year old PC graphics card could run circles around the xbox 360, but games on my pc look pants, whereas they're still pretty glorious on my xbox.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 13:24

  • mccappind #142 4 weeks ago

    I don't understand why people say they are disappointed. Even the article is misleading
    "By PC standards, the Radeon HD 6670 is an unremarkable, entry-level enthusiast product"
    EVERYONE is comparing it to PC standard and performance.
    If you going do that the Xbox 360 hardware at the time would have looked terrible compared to PC's at the time.
    You have no idea what the ATi 6670 can produce within a console. (Also note it’s going to be based on the GPU.)
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 13:27

  • -cerberus- #143 4 weeks ago

    I'd like to see a customizable home console where one can upgrade the graphics card, the sound card, the memory, whatever...
    I thought the N64 gad a nice thing going with its Expansion Pack as does the ps3 with its customizable harddrive.
    Edited by 3 at 25/01/12 @ 14:01

  • aidey6 #144 4 weeks ago

    Considering that DICE were hinting that the GPU specs for next generation consoles should be the level of the current high spec PC when running Battlefield 3. I hope that is the case

    http://www.eurogame r.net/articles/2011-10-24-battlefield-3-dice-talks-next-xbox -playstation-4

  • JumpinJackFlash #145 4 weeks ago

    I never was expecting a "beast" of a system from MS or Sony, it's well known they want to reduce the costs of manufacturing their next gen systems.

    Gamers expecting 8/16 GB of RAM, a GPU on level with a 580 GTX, etc, are just muppets.


    http://www.computerandvi deogames.com/303367/playstation-4-cheaper-to-make-than-ps3-s ony/
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 13:41

  • WinstonSmith #146 4 weeks ago

    Developers do work near-miracles with the hardware given but each game you are playing now has had to take unplanned/wanted cuts in processing to fit in frame. Draw distance, detail of distant objects, variety and number of characters, texture resolution / quantity, material complexity, full-screen FX, ant-aliasing, AI and physics processing etc etc.

    I bet most studios are hoping that the hardware is pretty similar and don't want to completely re-write their expensive engines, just turn up the dial a lot and take out the short-cuts.

  • photoboy #147 4 weeks ago

    @Velios "At the time the XBOX360 first came out did it have a cutting edge graphics card?

    NO"

    The 360 absolutely did have a cutting edge graphics card! It was the first GPU to market with a unified shader design capable of Shader Model 3 graphics, preceding ATI's PC equivalents to market by several months IIRC.

    It was IMHO an extremely forward thinking design and one of the primary reasons that at the time the only PCs more powerful than the 360 had top end CPUs and dual nVidia cards in SLI.

  • FortysixterUK #148 4 weeks ago

    @sir_tripod

    Knowledgeable and sound comments. Nicely explained.

  • inutaihanyou #149 4 weeks ago

    Basically, this just says how outdated our current generation of consoles are right now in terms of tech specifications.

    Even cheap and relatively ordinary PC hardware of today runs circles around ancient tech in our consoles. But perhaps if this rumor is true, Microsoft is counting on that in itself. Counting on their console subscribers still being wowed by how it all comes together.

    I mean if they can make it work, six times the performance at low cost sounds like a good investment to me. Especially if i don't have to shell out 400$ on launch date.

  • Tiberius_Gracchus #150 4 weeks ago

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrkBSFBA0f0&feature=rel ated

  • TPCG_Russ #151 4 weeks ago

    @photoboy

    The unified shader design was new and fresh, but the GPU itself was already a generation or two out of date.

    In short, this isn't surprising news.

    Tied with the fact that you can get a lot more 'juice' out of a closed system all this story really demonstrates is the shocking amount of latent power there is in modern PC graphics cards.

  • KopparbergDave #152 4 weeks ago

    At this rate whatever mobile graphics chip Apple will be bundling in their iPhone 6 or 7 will probably be a decent match for this, will be able to stream straight to your telly, maybe even act as a gaming hub using a bluetooth controller....

    Just saying, the rate of progress in iPhone graphics and abilities doesn't make this that far fetched. Apple could sidestep into the gaming consoles war without even releasing a so called dedicated gaming console. Their iPhone and maybe even an Apple TV module, could, in a couple of years time do a decent job at competing in terms of performance, and if MS, Sony and Nintendo don't let their marketplaces become far more competitively priced I see this happening. Apple simply allows their iPhones/iPads to become a gaming hub, run games on an iPad screen or wirelessly (or wired) to your TV and let a bluetooth control pad work with it... why not?! And you have access to by then Netflix and probably Apple's own subscription based TV service by then, have access to ALL your music and so on. You have everything MS would like to tie you into through their Xbox, all coming from a phone or a small module that sits next to your TV (or within it). Sure on pure graphics processing grunt their may be a slight lag behind true consoles, that is to be expected, but for many it could be a viable alternative, and as time goes by the graphics issue won't be one at all.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 13:53

  • Freek #153 4 weeks ago

    I verry much doubt this is true, they'd look silly next to what Sony would do. MS is in the buiseness of making a cutting edge console. It has served them verry well, no reason to think they would change and compete against Nintendo directly. That would be a loosing battle.

  • Daeltaja #154 4 weeks ago

    I could care a less how powerful the tech is, just make good games and develop a nice art direction.

  • UnblestCarpet #155 4 weeks ago

    @bodhi85uk I think people get it.

    It's just as a starting point the GPU is a little disappointing. It would be great to have something more powerful to give the devs even more options to play with. Boundaries of what is possible with the hardware will be pushed as different techniques are learnt but I suspect the big gains in that area have mostly been achieved.

    You right, it won't be shit graphics but it lacks potential.

    Something else to remember is that 3D and I guess 4k res are becoming more popular or just starting to show up, both of which would require extra power. (Yeah 4k is probably a bit ridiculous)

  • bladdard #156 4 weeks ago

    I don't believe a word of it. Microsoft have always released the hardware with the most powerful GPU and I don't think the next generation will be any different. I expect the next Xbox to have a GPU (or multiple GPU's) which are at least as powerful as a state of the art current top end PC.

  • Antag #157 4 weeks ago

    @bladdard Current high end GPU's draw over 200 watts of power alone. That's more then the entire launch 360 and they already had cooling problems with that. There's no way that they can put anything close to that in a console-sized system.

  • diver_gr #158 4 weeks ago

    come on , for Gods shake....... 6670? Really? I hope this isn;t truth . This card can't even run properly games like The witcher 2 in Full HD . Not to mention game that will come up in the next 1-2 years for PC.

  • JumpinJackFlash #159 4 weeks ago

    Those gamers expecting a super powerful PS4/NextBox need to wake up and stop dreaming about hardware they're never going to get.

    Anyway, if such gamers were that concerned about power then they are gaming on the wrong platform...
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 17:51

  • mccappind #160 4 weeks ago

    @diver_gr oh good god

  • linksdad #161 4 weeks ago

    fortysixterUK tripod's comment might be nicely explained but he's wrong.

    Graphics card is exactly where it is all at. Look at xbox and ps3 for example. One has the better graphics card, the other has the other stuff.
    Developers will always hit the limit, it doesnt mean they are working harder or having to produce more 'stuff' FPS and draw distance being two simple examples of stuff that can make 100-1000% difference in performance (and hence system utilisation) at the flick a switch.

  • UnblestCarpet #162 4 weeks ago

    To summarise my thoughts.

    A 6670 would likely mean current level of detail at 1080p, 60fps.
    3D would probably mean going back to 720.

    h ttp://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458935

  • j2bullard #163 4 weeks ago

    I don't see this as an issue. It should be an affordable machine at launch, good for consumers and also good for MS. Graphical power isn't everything, look at the Wii or Nintendo DS for proof of that. Limitless power can even encourage developers to be lazy, putting limitations in place drives creativity, innovate and efficient coding. Just look at Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3 for proof, who would have considered such graphical feats to be possible on such dated hardware?

  • bladdard #164 4 weeks ago

    @Antag

    I agree but transisters get smaller all the time and the heat requirements lower. A 4GB Nvidia 5800 today could be refind massively over the next years or two and would find a happy home in the next xbox.

    An Xbox dev-kit is a PC so the actual final design for the next 360 could be 12-18 months away.

  • TPCG_Russ #165 4 weeks ago

    @bladdard

    If that's what you really think is going to happen, prepare to pay £800 for the world's nosiest and pointlessly overpowered console.

    The 360's GPU was already a generation or two behind the times when that shipped and the same thing will happen here.

    Why stick 4 top end GPUs in something that's only outputting at 1080p / 60fps? It would be a massive waste and a terrible power drain.

    It will be more telling to find out what the CPU / memory combo will be TBH.


    Ps.
    At least devs will finally start putting their backs into real DX11 effects - there's been little done on this front to date besides a few flagship games and benchmarking apps. I think games could look perfectly awesome with this GPU.

  • Rens11 #166 4 weeks ago

    I can't see this being true unless they plan on making kinect the main focus
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 17:19

  • The-Duke #167 4 weeks ago

    Eurogamer guys, you should read these artcles here:

    http://www.gamesradar.com/rumor-n ext-xboxs-chip-codenamed-oban-production-2011/

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox -nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/

    http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/05/ex clusive-xbox-next-chip-just-taped-out/

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/09/glo bal-foundries-fab-8-is-making-chips/

  • bladdard #168 4 weeks ago

    @TPCG_Russ

    The 360 was launched nov 20 2005 and the Xenos is pretty much equivalent to the Nvidia 7900GTX which was a top end GFX card in 2006, hardly 2 generations behind.

  • jetsetwillie #169 4 weeks ago

    @diver_gr i agree, why don't they just put GTX580's in for god sake.

  • Quixz #170 4 weeks ago

    This card may sound crap but if you look at what is achievable with the current 360 we might be in for a nice surprise. A PC with the same specs as a 360 wouldn't not run 3/4 of the games we currently enjoy.

  • mccappind #171 4 weeks ago

    @-cerberus-
    I'd like to see a customizable home console where one can upgrade the graphics card, the sound card, the memory, whatever...
    You mean a PC then?

  • bad09 #172 4 weeks ago

    @jetsetwillie

    Are you taking the piss out of him or do you not realise how much a 580 costs? :)

  • Machiavellian #173 4 weeks ago

    Interesting that people believe that the PS4 will be this beast when Sony come out with it. I highly doubt that Sony will take the same risk they did with the PS3 with the PS4. With competition this fierce in the console market and also new players coming on the scene it would be financial suicide for Sony to not have a new console at the magic 300 price point. If the PS Vita is any indication, having the better specs and power do not get you the sales.

    A PS4 or Xbox next will also have to compete with their older brother which also will not make the adoption of the next consoles that great.

    As for the GPU specs, if the PS3 is something to go by, it's not the GPU people need to worry about more than the complete system. First, I believe MS will go with a custom GPU like before because they will own it. Also going with a custom chip they can optimize it more for the specific task it will do in the console. Just adding extra EDRAM would totally change how well the new console can render a scene reaching the same levels as todays PC GPU beast. Second the GPU is only as good as the other components so the CPU will make a big difference. If MS is going to have about 6 cores to off load a lot of work that would go directly to the GPU then that leaves the GPU to work on rendering the scene and using more complex shaders.

    The HD 6670 is probably just the base and MS really do not need to base their next GPU on a more expensive design because developers will be able to take full advantage of the GPU as well as the CPU. We know nothing of the internals that will power the console and I am sure this is where the magic will happen.

  • steagz #174 4 weeks ago

    Post deleted at 17:36:57 25-01-2012

  • StolenGlory #175 4 weeks ago

    I am completely confused right now, so I was hoping some of you could clear something up for me regarding this.

    The current story refers to the GPU being based off of the 6670 chipset, yet the SoC architecture that the 'Oban' CPU sits on, is apparently based on the AMD Radeon 7000 'Southern Islands' GPU series.

    So without coming across as too much of a thick cunt, which one would be used or can they both be used in tandem?

    *Is hopelessly befuddled*

    EDIT: Negged for asking a question? Harsh. Last time I checked I had two balls and neither of them were crystal.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 15:54

  • djm99 #176 4 weeks ago

    I would imagine that most games will be ported from the weaker console, so doesn't really matter how powerful the next xbox is. I'd take it all with a pinch of salt anyhoo, since when was the wii U going to be 5 times more powerful than the 360

  • Rubios #177 4 weeks ago

    @Dizzy That GPU is low range and we are a year (to say the least) from the release...

    I will wait until PS4 with my current 5770/PS3.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 16:05

  • knightmt #178 4 weeks ago

    It is just a price point. By the time they lock down the architecture, there will be two more generations available. Maybe an 8XXX

  • arcam #179 4 weeks ago

    @StolenGlory Simple answer is no one knows for sure what hardware will be in the next Xbox. This rumour is just as likely to be true as any other, completely contradictory rumour.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 16:10

  • Wot_the_Melon #180 4 weeks ago

    Hahahahahahahaha! Hahaha. Ha.

    Good laugh. Had this been true, it would have been very disappointing for console and PC gamers alike. But I doubt it is, it just doesn't seem reliable. Six times more powerful than current 360 yet only 20% more than the Wii U? Those two consoles are not that different, performance-wise. Besides, this is all just rumours (of which many have already turned out to be nonsense). I say we'll have to wait until official information comes out. A 6670 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

  • onezeonx #181 4 weeks ago

    @steagz I don't even own a 360 but know your talking a load of shite.

    And that is a fact

    deal with it

  • RedRain #182 4 weeks ago

    Looks like Microsoft is taking the onlive approuch and will offer a streaming service

  • wizlon #183 4 weeks ago

    Wow, this page is long!

  • super_monty #184 4 weeks ago

    I am not so hung up on graphics so fine by me as no doubt their will be a few mods on the card.

    Just game the games running smoothly and is if there is any bit of hardware that can smooth out lag or put people on a more even keel put that in.

    I don't want Kinect in the box and I am not paying for it, I am another step closer to moving over to PC rather than xbox.

    But Wii U sounds cool.
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 16:22

  • Machiavellian #185 4 weeks ago

    Good laugh. Had this been true, it would have been very disappointing for console and PC gamers alike. But I doubt it is, it just doesn't seem reliable. Six times more powerful than current 360 yet only 20% more than the Wii U?

    The question should be what does that statement mean. 6 times more power than the 360 people take as literal to the overall system performance but anyone with a little deduction skills knows that is not the case.

    The GPU in the PS3 does not define the overall graphical output of the PS3 so why would anyone believe this will be the case with the next console system including the Wii U.

    The key is how will the system be built and how will it handle current needs developers are looking for in the next console system. The graphics GPU can be a base and in today's world it's not the bottleneck in current graphical games. Look at Crysis 1 which is still today the bleeding edge game when it comes to graphical powers. The bottleneck isn't the GPU but instead the CPU and other components used to render the entire scene.

    Throwing more GPU at a problem probably cost more than designing a system that is optimize to handle specific graphical and game performance which include, Sound, Animation, Physics, game code, post processing effects you name it. Off load a lot of that work to processor designed to get the most out of the code and you improve the system to render a scene at greater detail including bigger worlds, higher end textures ect.

  • OrangesJoel #186 4 weeks ago

    IGN heard from "sources close to the project" that the GPU will provide performance six times greater than Xbox 360, and 20 per cent greater than Wii U.
    The same Wii U whose in-house showy tech demos so far put it roughly technically competitive with current gen hardware? This is 580% the performance of a 360 now?

    Yeah, no.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 16:27

  • Lucodeath #187 4 weeks ago

    I will buy 2 x GTX590 when there in the bargain bin.
    Virtua racing on the megadrive was no way faster on framerate then starfox. Im off to check that now.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 16:36

  • spacedmonkeys #188 4 weeks ago

    @DrStrangelove I wanted a look at your chart...but get a 404 not found :(

  • Lucodeath #189 4 weeks ago

    http://www.videoca rdbenchmark.net

    Gives a big list of gpu's out there

  • Farzlepot #190 4 weeks ago

    Gamers made the Xbox.

    Gamers will break the Xbox.

    Nintendo shunned their hardcore audience in favour of the casuals with the Wii, and they will regret it with the Wii U next time around. Don't make the same mistake MS!

    Casuals ARE NOT LOYAL CUSTOMERS! How bad does the Wii attach rate have to be before people realise this?

  • dagas #191 4 weeks ago

    It's still a lot better than what is in the 360. I was using a 5670 which is a slightly slower 6670 up until recently and it played anything I wanted to play just fine and console games are always more optimized. I mean the 360 is using a modified X1900 and the 6670 is many times more powerful than that. Still it is less than what my PC has now (a 6850) so it won't compete with PC's in graphics.

  • andijames #192 4 weeks ago

    @Farzlepot In all fairness the attach rate for the wii was relatively low because it was pirated to buggery for most of its life. But yeah the 'casual' gamers didn't exactly have games coming out of their ears at the same time.

    Personally i won't believe anything that comes up as a rumour for the next few months. Will just wait for concrete news on it. Although it's fun to speculate judging by the 200+ comments here :)

    Edit: Terible engrish!
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 16:50

  • UnblestCarpet #193 4 weeks ago

    What will be interesting is what modifications are made to these chips, which will differentiate them from standard pc hardware.

    ala the Xenon and Xenos cpu's.

  • Lucodeath #194 4 weeks ago

    @JAGUARCD32x Ive got a gtx460 with i5 2500 that already pisses on current consoles so its fine for now.
    Just tried VR / starfox One has 15 fps an 7 polygons an the other has 16fps an 6 polygons.
    Now Virtua Racing on 32x is loads better so add ons did work well bgut didnt sell well.

  • Farzlepot #195 4 weeks ago

    @andijames

    Piracy may have had something to do with it.

    Going on anectodal evidence for a minute though, I only know a single 'gamer' who owned a Wii and he sold it. The same is true of most other people I know - gamers don't buy the Wii. They either stick with the PC, or the PS360.

    But these are people who used to love Nintendo. Nintendo used to be all about games. Then they got a PR department and it all went to hell. For example, make a top 20 list for each current gen console. For the Xbox or PlayStation it's easy, in fact you run out of space, but the Wii? After ten games you start grasping at staws.

    Aside from anything else, third parties have been unsupportive of the Wii. Everything Nintendo does is gold, but that's not enough.

    Microsoft have gone in the casual direction. We know they have, as they started off the generation beating Sony with exclusives, and have ended the generation lagging severely behind, focussing on Kinect shovelware instead. They want a Kinexbox, with Smart TV functionality, and it just won't last them.

    Personally I started off this generation as an Xbox fanboy, but now? Now I'm wondering why I stopped upgrading my PC.

  • Machiavellian #196 4 weeks ago

    Microsoft have gone in the casual direction. We know they have, as they started off the generation beating Sony with exclusives, and have ended the generation lagging severely behind, focussing on Kinect shovelware instead. They want a Kinexbox, with Smart TV functionality, and it just won't last them.

    MS was beating Sony on exclusives because they were first to market not because MS was producing more exclusives themselves. Sony still have the most studios of any of the console makers so you would expect them to have more first party exclusives. Also Sony still have the most 3rd party exclusives because well they have more support in their homeland.

  • septimus #197 4 weeks ago

    Fail if true.

  • bodhi85uk #198 4 weeks ago

    @UnblestCarpet I wouldn't say its disappointing, if correct its will be significantly more powerful than the 360's chip and we have some amazing looking games, and whats more, if you compare early 360 games graphics, to current games graphics, the difference is massive.

    @JAGUARCD32x No, they and you it seems clearly don't understand. Look at the cost price for components for Vita, something like a $12 processor? and That has awesome visuals, and people here are complaining about a £70/£50 chipset, likely paired with a quad-core cpu, and maybe 2gb RAM? (wed like more but be realistic, they won't put 4gb in). Microsoft aren't going to put a £150 graphics card in a console, its not cost effective even on the scales they buy at, and its not needed when you look at whats capable on a 360 currently. If you want to buy expensive components for your PC to play console ports be my guest.

    Edit: Look at whats achievable on a phone these days, and then read the piece on the front page about the Raspberry Pi, and come back and tell me you need a £150, 250w graphics card to get fantastic visuals.
    Edited by 2 at 25/01/12 @ 17:41

  • Gastrian #199 4 weeks ago

    I'm surprised DF and IGN didnt try to extrapolate more from this bit of "news"

    The 6670 GPU is the highest rated GPU that can crossfire with an AMD APU (CPU and GPU on one chip). It is also quite happy to be passively cooled so by replacing the PowerCPU with an AMD APU they can build a smaller, quieter and cooler unit while having increased performance over the existing unit.

  • steviepunk #200 4 weeks ago

    I'd like to see something more powerful in the next xbox, but as with the current generation, I'll follow the games - if I want to play the games on it, then I'll buy one.

  • Lamb #201 4 weeks ago

    Baseline next gen should be GTX580! :D

  • Lucodeath #202 4 weeks ago

    @JAGUARCD32x I only buy a new pc when consoles start lagging behind. I try and get the best bang for my buck. You dont know what that is untill its time to buy.

  • DrStrangelove #203 4 weeks ago

    @spacedmonkeys

    That's strange... maybe try copy&paste?

    http://i40.tinypic .com/2z8amqb.jpg

  • DrStrangelove #204 4 weeks ago

    @JAGUARCD32x

    oops, I thought Virtua Racing was 32X only. From now on, I won't say anything without my lawyer, lol.

  • oi #205 4 weeks ago

    @tankboi

    Why do you even care about getting negged? It's the internet, some people won't like what you have to say.

  • Farzlepot #206 4 weeks ago

    @Machiavellian

    The reason is irrelevant. When I had my savings and was looking at buying a new console, I looked at the games on offer and chose an Xbox.

    That was a lead they could have capitalised on; between being first to market, being the cheaper of the two HD consoles, and having the financial backing of Microsoft, they could have maintained that advantage indefinitely.

    They chose to go after Nintendo's short-lived pie instead.

    As an Xbox owner, I feel much like Nintendo fans did when the Wii showed its true colours - betrayed. I won't be rushing out to buy the next, and I doubt I'm alone here in thinking that way.

  • richyroo #207 4 weeks ago

    I dont care how powerful it is. If its got Kinect bulit in, then Im not buying!

  • nathangilmour-gunn #208 4 weeks ago

    Time to update this story me thinks.

    Care of fudzilla
    It seems now that recent speculation that the new main System on a Chip (SoC) for the Next Xbox (or Xbox 720, if you like) began production is apparently accurate; the SoC did indeed start production in late December of 2011. Sources tell us that the code name for the chip is Oban, and it is being produced by both IBM and Global Foundries for Microsoft.

    If speculation is correct, which our sources believe it is, the power behind the next Xbox will be a PowerPC CPU that is married to an ATI Southern Islands GPU, or modified 7000 series. Continued rumors of an x86 compatible CPU seem to be bunk, just based on where the chip is being fab’d.

  • Darren #209 4 weeks ago

    @nathangilmour-gunn - If the GPU is based on the HD 7000 series then it'll be a low-end HD 7730 or something like that (AMD will release lots of cards based on the HD 7000 from low- to high-end), and certainly not a mid- (HD 78xx) or high-end (HD 79xx) one as even at 28nm the HD 7970 requires very good air-flow and a big cooler, neither of which a small console case could provide. In other words, it will probably not be much more powerful than an HD 6670 anyway. The trouble with current PC graphics tech is that higher numbers do not necessarily mean the card is faster than a lower numbered one, just newer.

  • cloudskipa #210 4 weeks ago

    6 x more powerful than 360 = GAMING BEAST!!

  • AnotherIdiot #211 4 weeks ago

    It's not like a big desktop tower that you can just bung the latest graphics card into, they have to consider cooling in what will inevitably a small box. Use your brains people, it wont hurt.

  • -cerberus- #212 4 weeks ago

    @JAGUARCD32x: I agree, though the 32X version of MKII was the best one but clearly an exception to the rule.

  • Machiavellian #213 4 weeks ago

    @Farzlepot

    My point is that MS hasn't changed. You bought the 360 for a perceived advantage that was not going to be kept because MS does not have enough first party studios. MS has not been in the console business to garner the support Sony has developed with 2 of the best selling consoles in history.

    As for capitalizing on the the exclusive lead, that would be very hard for them to do. It's not like there is a lot of AAA developers out there for MS to purchase and compete with Sony. It's also not like MS can make up the difference with Sony Native developers making exclusives for the system.

  • Gastrian #214 4 weeks ago

    Personally I dont mind if the next Xbox isn't a poweerrhouse as most of my best purchases this year have been XBLA games that dont require that extra power.

  • gjgjg #215 4 weeks ago

    lol, next gen is last gen already

  • RobTheBuilder #216 4 weeks ago

    Makes sense to ship dev kits with a lower spec to ensure everything at launch runs smoothly.

    Given the issues with PS3's cost and 360's reliability, not to mention the HD upgrade curve, I wouldn't be surprised to see both manufacturers staying as far away from bleeding edge tech as they can manage.

    The interesting thing here is that this effectively means WiiU is the first next gen console, rather than an equivalent of 360/PS2...
    Edited by 1 at 25/01/12 @ 21:08

  • Fantomex #217 4 weeks ago

    @Pacmaninov
    A more powerful core processor than graphics card.

  • Magusi #218 4 weeks ago

    If thats true, wii U is going to be the leader in consoles this time! I mean, 4890 vs 6670??? Not even in xbox720 dreams to beat that! The only difference is wiiU supports directx 10.1 and xbox directx 11.

  • SavageEvil #219 4 weeks ago

    Yawn! Only so far graphics can go you know...after a while it's just about how much more junk you can shove into a frame at a time than making the visuals look better. This sounds all well and good, but perhaps Sony and MS should look toward to mobile CPU's and GPU's. Have you seen the power some of these little beasts put out? Best part is that they don't run so damn hot nor do they need half a city to power them. ARM is ahead of the game, home consoles should start looking toward the mobile CPU and GPU to power their next systems, why? They are definitely more efficient in terms of power use and heat dissipation. What happened to the days where your console could run for days at a time and not overheat and all that junk? now we have motherboards warping from the volcanic heat output of some of these systems, really? Am I the only one thinking that the mobile space has given consoles a better chance of staying viable, smaller and more compact.

    There has to be someone else actually looking into this as a good way to deal with better heat dissapation, lower power use on the CPU/GPU side of things, SSD internal drives.

  • CounterPunch #220 4 weeks ago

    Let's be honest all you pc boys with your £300 gfx card don't get anywhere near there potential for years until dev houses use them as the base builds. What is the point? With of you have 1 game built for the best gfx cards the rest are build for 18 month

  • riseer #221 4 weeks ago

    @mccappind Consoles are more streamline unlike a Pc.Pc games don't get optimize like console games.Look at BF3 i highly doubt you can get that game to run on a Pc that costed 600$ or less back in 2006.Atleast as playable as both console version's.So even if Ms goes with this Gpu with the right hardware,the console can put out nice looking games.

  • CounterPunch #222 4 weeks ago

    Let's be honest all you pc boys with your £300 gfx card don't get anywhere near there potential for years until dev houses use them as the base builds. What is the point? you have 1 game built for the best gfx cards the rest are build for 18 month old cards. "mass market". Consoles have never had the high end cards but exploit them more. Ie get the best out of the gfx that pc never sees. Xbox 360 is what 6/7 years old, how old is your gfx card? 6 months before it has to be replaced for the next greatest thing! That never gets exploited by devs?!!!!!

  • RobTheBuilder #223 4 weeks ago

    The other thing to remember is that as a console it may also come with additional supporting chips or add-ons that allow other functions. The Gamecube was a good example of Nintendo taking a basic graphics chip but carefully customising to produce great overall performance.

  • metatron197924 #224 4 weeks ago

    wow i see complains,guys chill out you had xbox 360 for 7 years and you say the graphics its ok,what happen now you become graphics whores and deep down to your self except xbox next to catch the pc i think that you are gameplay hardcore players whats the point.of course microsoft understand the majority of the players and they give you what you deserve,all this month and years saying i dont care about graphics so get the result now and thanks microsoft for offer you another xbox for 10 years at 400 eyro price with a card cost at 2013 20 eyros,you are destroy the beatiful world of the consoles now get the results so shut the fuck up now.

  • werewolf_poo #225 4 weeks ago

    I love how everybody knows everything about everything after a supposed true story was leaked. If you all know much better than microsoft when it comes to designing and building computers, then how come your on a gaming website whining like little girls about how much better you would make it.

    "I'll wait for the PS4 to blow my mind this time around" That comment got +76 times. A lot of fanboys on here isn't there?

    How can you all get so annoyed about rumours?

  • riseer #226 4 weeks ago

    @photoboy Sony will use CELL once again it will be much faster then the current setup but the RnD will be alot cheaper then before.Sony can get with Nvidia and build a speedy gpu based off their 400 series fermi gpu's use nothing less then 256bit bus maybe go with the same shared memory setup as 360 just with 3-4 gigs of ram.They can't afford to make Ps4 hard to develope for.

  • Pacmaninov #227 4 weeks ago

    @werewolf_poo
    Microsoft troll

  • digoutyoursoul #228 4 weeks ago

    @werewolf_poo because most xbox news comments sections have the sony flag wavers commenting.

    lol@ your name btw

  • up_the_ante #229 4 weeks ago

    Maybe MS are planning to do what Nintendo did with the Wii this generation? ie produce a machine with similar performance as the previous generation (Gamecube -> Wii) but add some additional gimmick that appeals to the masses. Hence a 6670 would suffice. Hope not.

  • DoctorFouad #230 4 weeks ago

    if the console is scheduled for late 2012 than this news is possible, but if the next xbox is scheduled for fall 2013, this news is IMPOSSIBLE, I dont believe it, by 2013, more powerful GPUs would be as cheap to produce as this entry level card, so economically speaking it doesent make any sense to put this GPU in 2013....

  • RobTheBuilder #231 4 weeks ago

    Also, they could simply dual it...

  • sugarbaron #232 4 weeks ago

    @bad09 Guess you are too young to remember the PS/Saturn then.

  • Ptarmigandalf #233 4 weeks ago

    Shipping with a shitload of RAM would make much more of a difference than a beefier GPU.

  • smilernick #234 4 weeks ago

    I've always been a playstation man anyway! As good as the 360 is, PS4 is always going to be the way forward for me. When I buy a sexy new console, I want face melting graphics, mind bending new features and groundbreaking new games that get me excited like a kid at Christmas!! Something I can set up when I get it home, then lose 3 weeks of my life too.

  • Hxy3000 #235 4 weeks ago

    Oh yeah the PS4! That will look so much better! Much like PS3 games look so much better that X360 games because the hardware is so much better! Yay! Arguing about rumours is the coolest!

  • akmass #236 4 weeks ago

    @deded
    One things for sure--Sony will not give MS a year head start again. It took them 3 years to catch up this time.

  • akmass #237 4 weeks ago

    @Farzlepot
    I agree with most of what you said except for the conclusion. MS developed the Xbox to get in the living room, gaming was just the best way to do it, and they succeeded. The next console will be transitional and probably the last, as we know them anyway.

    Kinect gets so much attention b/c its the future of the living room--along with Siri, cloud gaming and at least one thing we haven't heard of yet.

    Hard core gaming is only a small piece of the puzzle and I think MS looks to be competing more intensely with Apple and Google than with Sony or nintendo. Of course this will only raise the flame war bar, as you'll have to choose your completely walled-off ecosystem.

    it's not the future I wanted, but I think it's the one we're getting.

  • Kygzab #238 4 weeks ago

    @Skooch

    6-10 times seems bit of an overstatement. 3-5 times the price of brand new console should be well enough. There's the high end that is reasonable and useful for gaming, and then there's highend that isn't really useful for anything other than running SuperPI and 3DMark, and loses value at lightning speed.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/12 @ 10:01

  • demons #239 4 weeks ago

    na merda.....no schifo....a nightmare...

    this is a gpu? what this? 6670 dx11 gpu? no this is false ...and ridicolous...a new ati gpu reflect a lot of many features for console and increase math gap for tassellation.... 1080p in dx11? impossibile with 6670...
    xbox720 coming this year == EPIC FAIL.

    ps4 2013/2014 == good time for good dx11 gpu.

    only last ati gpu have features for a true next gen console...i buy a geforce 560 and w8 a ps4 :p

  • drSchiwago #240 4 weeks ago

    My understanding of console design is to take the best possible hardware available at the time when specification is fixed because of the long expected lifetime of the console(in terms of computer hardware life cycles).

    The 360 GPU was already outperformed at release (but only with the enthusiast 8800 GTX) but how will a HD 6670-like GPU position itself in November 2013?

    I just hope that the "core edition" will note feature this GPU.


    If MS will really provide two instances of consoles for the x720 there will be other issue:

    The "pared down" version will also be used for gaming, therefore it's very likely that multi-platform developers use the lower specs to design their games for and the "core" version only gets some additional effects (like PC conversions nowadays) -> very bad

    The best solution (for people who want to see more advanced games) would be that the "set-top box" doesn't have a disk drive and a completely separate games shop for arcade and party games.

  • AnotherIdiot #241 4 weeks ago

    When you suggest graphics cards that would be better, you have to ask the question, can that graphics card be put into a very small box without any cooling issues and not being excessively noisy for living room device?

  • Calgon #242 3 weeks ago

    I will beleive it when I see it, MS have always been forward thinking when it comes to the GPU in their machines(probably a little moreso than the CPU but I think they will have learned alot from the Xenon project). Xbox's NV2a was based on tech slightly ahead of its time, although pretty much just little bits already planned for the NV25 aka GeForce 4. Xbox360s Xenos was even more forward thinking and much more of a custom design, this was probably thanks to learning their lessons from Xbox(they have some very smart people on the XNA Team now IMO, formerly the Xbox Advanced Technology Group) and switching to ATI who Im geussing were more relaxed/co-operative and allowed MS more control/input.

    Aside from the disasterous decision to skimp on testing to get it out for the christmas run-in which has cost them over a billion(I wonder what would have happened had they recognised how big the fault was, delayed it and shipped with something closer to the Elite machines from the start sometimes) the rest of what they did was a pretty damn big success in many regards. I think it would be a mistake to try and out Nintendo, Nintendo(although they can always try and capture some of that market by all means) and a step back for them since they'd lose a lot of their existing fanbase and lets face it, although its taken a lot of time and money to get this far they have come a long way.

    I could be wrong but Im thinking this is bogus for now, although he could have been guessing rather than making an informed estimation Carmack said he expects something more in the way of 10x more powerful overall for the next consoles from Sony and MS, this would be half that.