Arma 2 dev Bohemia shares alarming PC piracy statistic

By Robert Purchese Published 18 November, 2011

"It's really worrying for us."

Arma 2 developer Bohemia has shared an eye-opening statistic about piracy levels on PC.

"Our statistics from multiplayer show that for every three legitimate buyers playing their game in multiplayer, there are 100 (failed) attempts to play with a pirated version," Bohemia's CEO Marek Španěl told PC Gamer.

"This indicates that piracy is an extremely widespread problem on PC, and it's also really worrying for us as a mid-sized, independent, PC-oriented developer.

"We do not have any such data for single-player, but I'm afraid there the ratio of pirates to legitimate gamers is undoubtedly much worse."

Bohemia can't do much to protect the offline, single-player experience from pirates. Online, however, Bohemia can use Degrade.

"The philosophy is not to try to prevent counterfeit and pirated games from running, but instead (or in addition) to degrade the end user experience of such copies," explained the developer.

"In the Arma series, players with pirated copies have lower accuracy with automatic weapons in both single player and multiplayer, and occasionally turn into a bird ...."

Marek Španěl, CEO, Bohemia Interactive

"The motto is: Pirated games are not worth playing, original games do not degrade.

"Some of the symptoms are funny, usually annoying. In the Arma series, players with pirated copies have lower accuracy with automatic weapons in both single-player and multiplayer, and occasionally turn into a bird with the words, 'Good birds do not fly away from this game, you have only yourself to blame.'

"While we know we will never stop piracy, we use this as a way to make our stand that piracy is not right, that it has a serious negative impact on PC games developers."

Degrade is a supplement to the more traditional, although perhaps as controversial, DRM anti-piracy approach.

"It's very difficult. Companies and teams invest a lot into game development, and with such widespread piracy, it's extremely tough to get the investment back," Bohemia said, highlighting how it tries to remove DRM "not too long" after a game's launch. This, it hopes, will stop the "vicious cycle" of "annoying" DRM that "hurts" legitimate game owners.

Arma 2 was deployed in 2009, and Bohemia's now at work on a third (PC exclusive) game, due summer 2012.

Arma 3.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (84) Latest comment 6 months ago

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  • streetmagix #1 6 months ago

    *Waits to see what arguments people wheel out justifying piracy*

  • uknortherner2000 #2 6 months ago

    *Waits for smart-arse hypocritical comments from Xbox 360 owners about PC piracy*

  • Viracocha #3 6 months ago

    Waits for "this is false, I know better than the devs, piracy is a non issue" line.

  • Springchicken #4 6 months ago

    Bloody pirates.

  • Wizard83 #5 6 months ago

    PC games are already £10 cheaper than the console versions!

    Attacking PC only developers has got to be the most retarded thing ever!

    I dont understand people who spend 2 grand on a kick ass rig then cry about £30 game prices!

  • Dangerous_Dan #6 6 months ago

    "Attacking PC only developers has got to be the most retarded thing ever!"

    I'm not sure, some of these guys spend a lot of time in their chair. I think it's more retarded to attack a SAS member.

  • Djimm #7 6 months ago

    Those figures seem high. I would guess that because Arma2 has quite a small player base, the problem is exaggerated.

    Also, I think journalists need to challenge the line from developers that "one pirated game equals one lost sale". That is simply false, if piracy was impossible you might see an increase in sales but it would be nowhere near one for one.

  • FogHeart #8 6 months ago

    Degrade is actually a far better deterrent than flatly refusing to run.

    - If the game refuses to run, the pirate just tries to find one that will, so he hardly loses any 'play time'

    - If he enjoys the game at first, then gets frustrated as it gets harder/worse, he may capitulate and buy the product

    - 'Losing face' by being humiliated by a poor performance online is a better way of spanking a pirate than just not letting him play.

    - BUT showing that someone is a pirate to other players (eg turning them into a bird!) isn't always a great idea. Some twisted individuals revel in their bad boy status and actually take pride in getting insults from legitimate players who they think are dumb for paying for their game.

  • Morgawr #9 6 months ago

    Why do developers spend so much time talking about piracy? They're making another PC exclusive, which indicates to me that the last two PC exclusive Arma games must have been quite successful. Focus on your customers. They're obviously making money from developing PC games, so maybe the interview should have focused on that, instead of joining the ensemble of publishers and developers going on about piracy.

  • bad09 #10 6 months ago

    @Wizard83

    You don't understand that because that's not really the case.

    Firstly the whole "2 grand on a kick ass system" is nonsense, only a small percentage of PC gamers go for high end.

    Also the piracy itself does not really come from richer countries, studies have shown that most software piracy comes from the poorer countries or countries with very high taxes on games wih places like UK and US being down the bottom of the list. Throw in that it also comes from areas not serviced by the industry at all, or people demoing a game, avoiding DRMs or even people who have lost or damaged a disc.

    I'm not justifing piracy of course, but there are varied reasons for the problem not just this dogmatic (and rather misguided and unhelpful) view that it's just "thieving scumbags" getting a freebie, to understand reasons for a problem is half the journey to solving it and a lot more constructive than judgemental pitchforks at the ready we see from most of the industry.

    As for the article I notice they say "failed" attempts so sounds like they are winning there anyway! I do like Bohemia's method of affecting the pirate though, hell of a lot better than the rest of the industry who thinks reducing piracy means ownership should be taken away from legal consumers...which means pirates get a better product and the industry actually ends up promoting and encouraging the thing it wants to reduce on top of hurting sales.

  • FogHeart #11 6 months ago

    I guess piracy is most prevalent in countries where there's a high degree of corruption anyway. You do what you see.

  • George-Roper #12 6 months ago

    I could be missing something obvious here but didn't Arma2 MP go F2P recently?

    Are these stats from before that, or after?

  • obscured021 #13 6 months ago

    That sucks for them, but the 360 pirate issue is as big if not bigger, as you can play on xlive with a hacked xbox using one of the many free proxy's setup for the job, its almost impossible to get access to official game servers on pc with a cracked game.

    I don't like when they signal out one platforum.

  • JayG #14 6 months ago

    It is a serious problem, while Steam brags about 280,000 Skyrim players it sold over 2 million on the Xbox. As a PC gamer makes me sad to see so many people pirate a game like Skyrim that gives so many hours. Been honest with the way things were going I was losing all interest in gaming until the last few weeks gave us so many epics.

    When sales are so bad on PC, is it any wonder that so little attention is given to the platform. And that effects everyone, not just PC gamers. Certain genres like Space Sims have nearly totally died out, not because there is no interest on the players part, but the general assumption is that Console gamers would have no interest in them and there is no sales on PC. Look at Dragon Age 2, supposedly consoled, but KOTOR was originally an Xbox game, Fallout New Vegas didn't treat it's customers as morons, it just seems that publishers feel that to cater to the mainstream you have to make sure that morons will no problems playing. I reckon a Tie Fighter/ Wing Commander game would work on both PC and Console.

    It does annoy me that simple things like Mouse/Keyboard support has dropped to such a low level that the general advice is to use a Controller. I was always a supporter of allowing everyone to play the game with any console/input device they feel confortable with. But for me as a long time player whose first PC games was Ultima 7 and the original Elder Scrolls it feels as if other peoples preferences are been forced upon me, especially as I enjoy the precision that the mouse gives. The fact is end of the day we are all gamers, no matter the platform, and while the old adage ' first they took away the keyboard , I did nothing, then they took away the mouse, I did nothing, then they took away the controller and there was no one left to fight' could hold true as the generation growing up on Kinect will wonder why people would ever use their hands, I hope that the PC will recover and become a valid platform again. With the attitude of both the consumer and publisher I'm not sure that will happen.

  • Dangerous_Dan #15 6 months ago

    on topic:

    "Arma 2 developer Bohemia has shared an eye-opening statistic about piracy levels on PC."

    "Our statistics from multiplayer show that for every three legitimate buyers playing their game in multiplayer, there are 100 (failed) attempts to play with a pirated version," Bohemia's CEO Marek Španěl

    I'm sorry but i find this not so clear at all. So are these numbers big? What defines an attempt to connect? How often does a client try to connect with during one login attempt?
    Are they suggesting that 33 times more people have a pirated version of the game than legitimate buyers? And why do they try to connect to the official servers? - I'd be worried about connecting with an illegal copy to the official servers.

    Don't get me wrong it's a great news article to vent some anger on those pirates (especially PC only developers, how dare you! have the morals to attack at least those rich multiplat devs! ^^ you men of low moral fiber!) but what the hell are you saying?

  • DanForinton #16 6 months ago

    for every three legitimate buyers playing their game in multiplayer, there are 100 (failed) attempts to play
    Now that's an... interesting choice of words there that's so thoroughly misleading it discredits most of his argument. How many of those "attempts to play" are unique users or repeat offenders?

    If people want to complain about piracy, I'll defend to the death their right to do where justified. But when people start deploying weasel words to make the situation look worse than it is, that gets my back up.

  • [TR] #17 6 months ago

    @Dangerous_Dan
    I also have some questions on the statistics they present. If 3 legitimate buyers mean 97 pirates trying to connect, are we talking repeat attempts to connect or actual individual people trying?
    I can't imagine this is so straightforward to track, but beside the shock value which has never lead to anything good in these cases, it would be better to deal with these matters in realistic terms.

    That said, Arma 2 being the kind of game it is, I can see people pirating it instead of buying it. (I mean "trying it out" and never converting into a purchase)

  • arcam #18 6 months ago

    Heh, I've actually bought 2 copies of this game (once on disc, forgot I had it and bought it again on Steam) so hopefully that helps a little ;)

  • Freek #19 6 months ago

    It's a problem, but what's an even bigger problem is the industries failure to respond to it in a constructive and meaningfull way.
    It's same old line of "quote absurd number, enforce draconian rules on legitimate customers".
    That doesn't work. There needs to be legitimate research into what effect it has on consumers buying habbits and how people consume media in a modern connected world. Technology has changed the way we see value in our entertianment and how we buy it.
    So far the entertainment industry is failling to see that.

    There was a verry interesting article on ars technica a few months ago pointing out that the people who downloaded the most movies were also the ones buying the most movies. You don't want to be at war with your most loyal customers.
    And more recently an analasys of pricing vs piracy;
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/report-piracy-a-global-pricing-problem-with-only-one-solution.ars
    Edited by Freek at 18/11/11 @ 10:47

  • bad09 #20 6 months ago

    "When sales are so bad on PC, is it any wonder that so little attention is given to the platform

    A common misconception that PC sales are "bad", because of torrent figures. You really think they are that bad? Would publishers like EA invest in digital distribution platforms if sales on the platform were that bad? While a couple ignore PC on some games outside of the Japanese devs (who have always been console focused but even that is slowly changing) most games come to PC even if it is late, why do that if sales are that bad on the platform?

    Sure consoles have more sales (much more in many cases) but it's a more "plug and play" method of gaming for the masses and has always earned more money than home computer gaming but you also have to remember the popular method of selling on console get them less money on each copy, half the PC market is now digital and even on Steam with their 30% cut it's still more earned than on a boxed version with no extra cost on the console license.

    There is a real PC revival over the last few years combined with an actual reduction in piracy (according to the PCGA anyway) so the platform is starting to look a lot healthier, why do you think a great deal of the industry is "focusing" on PC a bit more now?
    Edited by bad09 at 18/11/11 @ 10:49

  • Dangerous_Dan #21 6 months ago

    @[TR]
    The shock value is a good point. I guess there is definitely an impact of pirated games on the game market and it always will be. And maybe it's a stronger impact on PC than on consoles (although I'm not completely sure about that) but how about doing something about it by offering something that the pirates can not have...
    I'm thinking about the Demon's Souls games right now where a single player campaign has strong online aspects. You may play offline but with its integrated online features it's a very different thing.
    the games industry wants to have DRM, they don't want to sell you a product but sell you a service. So if that's the case then offer something unique with your servers.

  • d0x #22 6 months ago

    Bohemia makes great games but if they want to keep making them and turn a profit its time they ported to consoles

  • Synthesis #23 6 months ago

    Shouldn't surprise anyone that a great deal more people will try a game for free than will pay for it.

    If you could clone Ferrari's I'm sure you'd find the ratio of 'cloned' Ferrari's to genuinely purchased Ferrari's would have a ridiculous ratio too.

    It means very little and says nothing about lost sales whatsoever.

    The great majority of those downloading games would never have paid anyway. If they can't download a cracked copy, they'd just play something else.

    Companies need to stop thinking of piracy as a problem and think of it more as a competitor. Once they do that, they might start producing better content, which is more accessible and drop this stupid DRM/DLC/exclusive pre-order content nonsense.

    However, it's extremely unlikely that this will happen as they dearly love to see the extra money pile in by holding back content that should have been released with the game, in order to sell it to consumers later on as DLC.

  • iamtheoneneo #24 6 months ago

    ok to move away from all the stupid discussions in this thread, a simple question: this 3in100 how many of the 100 ewre legit users not being able to connect to a server bc it ran loads of random mods and you needed a degree to figure out what to install???? Id expect at least half of that.

  • mrblonde #25 6 months ago

    Why don't they abandon the PC platform and work on an arma title aimed at the next gen of consoles, which will do it justice and sell much more,(obviously 360/ps3 couldn't )

    Just a matter of time till this happens crytec, epic etc etc.., the PC is finished for medium to big budget games.
    Edited by mrblonde at 18/11/11 @ 13:01

  • Rack #26 6 months ago

    280,000 simultaneous players JayG, the sales figure would have to be much higher.

  • arcam #27 6 months ago

    Operation Flashpoint moved to consoles and almost destroyed the brand in the process. It used to be one of the most loved games, but now no one on console really likes it and on PC they like it even less.

    Just saying "switch to console" is not a guarantee of success. If it was, they would have done it already.

  • UncleLou #28 6 months ago

    Just a matter of time till this happens crytec, epic etc etc.., the PC is finished for medium to big budget games.

    There are still people who believe this? How quaint. :D

  • mrblonde #29 6 months ago

    xbox360 PIRACY IS MASSIVE, rubbish, THERES FAR, FAR MORE HASSLE THAN PC PIRACY INVOLVED AND WHY DO 360 TITLES ALWAYS COME TOP OF THE SALES LISTS, USUALLY BY SOME DISTANCE OVER THE "UNHACKED" PLAYSTATION3.
    IMAGINE 360 SALES WITH NO PIRACY, THERE WOULD BE NO PC DEVS LEFT

  • Seafort #30 6 months ago

    @JayG That 280k players isnt the total of sales on steam thats just concurrent connections of gamers playing the game simultaneously.

    I know of 5-6 people just on my friends list playing the game atm it will have sold at least a million on pc i bet.

  • mrblonde #31 6 months ago

    Agree about op flashpoint but ARMA on the more powerful xbox360 sucessor could be huge.

    @UNCLELOU

    Look at the facts there has been no pc exclusive of note since crysis 1 in nov 2007. I could name 50 console exclusives since then.
    All high end pc gaming equipment has to play these days is sloppy console seconds , which are late to boot. (battlefield the possible exception)

  • Machiavellian #32 6 months ago

    That sucks for them, but the 360 pirate issue is as big if not bigger, as you can play on xlive with a hacked xbox using one of the many free proxy's setup for the job, its almost impossible to get access to official game servers on pc with a cracked game.

    The difference is that on the PC piracy downloads outstrip legit purchase by a huge amount compared to the 360 where legit purchase outstrip piracy. There is piracy on all the platforms but on the PC it's totally out of control because it is so easy.

  • george1976 #33 6 months ago

    Bullshit?

  • Machiavellian #34 6 months ago

    I also have some questions on the statistics they present. If 3 legitimate buyers mean 97 pirates trying to connect, are we talking repeat attempts to connect or actual individual people trying?

    Lets just use a bit of logic here. how many times do you think a person will attempt to connect to a server with a pirate copy and it fails. How many times would a person download a new pirate copy to see if they could connect online with it. the stat is legit in the fact that their is a large amount of non legit people trying to play Arma online.

    PC gamers will continue to look for anything to state that Piracy is not an huge issue on the PC platform until all the developers have moved to fixed platforms like a console and the only thing you get for your nice new awesome vidoe card and 12 core CPU is a sloppy port.

  • Red930 #35 6 months ago

    "Arma 2 was deployed in 2009, and Bohemia's now at work on a third (PC exclusive) game, due summer 2012."

    Actually that'll be their fourth, their third is Take on Helicopters, which was out a few weeks ago, is frankly pretty good and I still have not seen an EG review yet...

  • arcam #36 6 months ago

    Agree about op flashpoint but ARMA on the more powerful xbox360 sucessor could be huge.

    What other deep military simulations sell well on the Xbox? I agree there is potential there, but the game would need a lot of tweaking and there would be significant risk for Bohemia.

    Have you ever played it? If you think there have been no PC exclusives 'of note' released in the last 5 years then maybe you don't know much about the PC games in general...
    Edited by arcam at 18/11/11 @ 14:02

  • Pulsar_t #37 6 months ago

    Maybe their sequel will have proper AI for a change.

  • Windypops #38 6 months ago

    I do feel sorry for developers though. Going into the PC gaming business, then discovering that anything created for the platform is easily replicated and transmitted. You'd think someone would tell them before they signed on the dotted.

  • Brodie #39 6 months ago

    @Djimm

    It might not equal one lost sale, but it doesnt matter. If you haven't paid for something, you have no right to it.

    Wether you were going to buy it or not, it's not yours to steal.

  • UncleLou #40 6 months ago

    @mrblonde

    Nah, you're wrong. That's the problem with some of you console-only gamers, you don't have the foggiest idea about PC gaming. No idea why you think it's clever to embarrass yourself with your own ignorance in every thread, but be my guest. :)
    Edited by UncleLou at 18/11/11 @ 14:40

  • Dangerous_Dan #41 6 months ago

    @Brodie

    steal? why not just say to rob. maybe the pirate took it at gun point from the developer!
    ^^

  • Machiavellian #42 6 months ago

    Obviously I have no real figures though. No-one does. So as far as piracy being a 'huge issue,' I have to be agnostic. Yes it's presented as a huge issue in the media, but if a company is still alive and still releasing PC games even with an alleged 97% piracy rate, then surely you can only frame that as a 'huge' issue if you consider it somehow a travesty that the company's gross profits aren't thirty-four times higher than they already are, which you can only employ as an argument if you accept the fallacy that there is a 1:1 ratio of pirated copies to 'lost sales.'

    If a company only break even do you call that successful. In other words just because a company doesn't tank doesn't mean that they are not in risk. It only takes one bad game or a game that does not get a great reception for most of these mid level developers to go under. Also if you are not getting paid for your product, then how do you expect the company to grow. To keep their employees up on the latest technology or to even keep the best of their employees when the money is tight. If most of your sales are rob by people who go the easy route instead of purchasing your game it is a big issue. The key here is that people are willing to go the easy route when the easy route is free. The problem is it looks like this is becoming the TREND for PC games and a culture for new gamers on the PC. When piracy continue to increase instead of decrease it becomes something very worrying for a PC developer.

  • disusedgenius #43 6 months ago

    @mrblonde

    "Look at the facts there has been no pc exclusive of note since crysis 1 in nov 2007. I could name 50 console exclusives since then."

    I presume the 'of note' part of that statement translates to 'which I've noticed'.

  • kangarootoo #44 6 months ago

    "Those figures seem high"

    Awesome. Based on what exactly?

    Where are the other clear and known values, relevant to this situation, from which this value differs, to an extent that it can be declared anomalous?

    Or does the figure just "seem" high?

  • arcam #45 6 months ago

    @Machiavellian

    Who says they're only just breaking even, or stuck on old technology?

    Wiki says "The studio operates multiple high end optical Motion capture setups provided by technology leading Motion analysis and Vicon, Vivid-900 3D scanner by Minolta and RED One camera with complete set of lenses, lighting and related computer equipment".

    They've just announced a third sequel, have a free-to-play version that is still pulling in money 3 years after Arma 2 was released, they have acquired 4 new development studios and they have managed to stay independent through all of this. Where

    That's not to say they shouldn't be concerned about piracy, but they are a success story, and they shouldn't be referred to as some failing dev being killed by piracy on a failing platform.

    Look at the consoles - mIddleweight independent developers can struggle on any platform. In fact, independent devs seem to do better on the piracy-ridden PC platform when compared to the relatively-secure console, which raises some interesting questions.

  • apoc_reg #46 6 months ago

    I really hope nasty @#%$%# pirates don't ruin the platform.

    If you want to play it then pay it. Every game is hours and hours of people blood sweat and tears.

    I can understand downloading something to check it runs on your rig (as demos seem non existent) but if you can you should then buy it right away.
    Edited by apoc_reg at 18/11/11 @ 15:32

  • scoop #47 6 months ago

    @Bad09: "Would publishers like EA invest in digital distribution platforms if sales on the platform were that bad?"

    Quite the opposite - I'd say that EA sees digital distribution as a good entry point to combat piracy on PC. If your customers are getting their games from an online source, there's more opportunity for injecting DRM in the future, either as a connectivity feature or as after-sales (yum yum micropayments, subscripions, passes and freemium features!).

    There's pirates and then there's piracy. Pirates are people who're determined to have something whether they can afford or not, or don't care to pay full stop. Piracy is a disease that kills the very organism it exists to exploit. DRM is medicine - bad medicine, but it only exists because pirates don't realise that they're little more than bad bacteria...

  • ic4ruz #48 6 months ago

    @JayG I agree with most of your points, but to be fair, Steam was bragging about 280.000 players playing at the same time. That means that the sales are higher on the PC version, since not everyone is playing at the same time.

  • subjectxen #49 6 months ago

    @uknortherner2000 You sir, are the typical PC gamer.

  • azic #50 6 months ago

    yawn ywan.. Use steam... Job Done.
    I could have a 100 XBOX ISO's does not mean I get to play them!

    This is going to be the excuse to kill of PC, Fucking bull shit

  • azic #51 6 months ago

    @JayG
    Every Game store my mate went to, to buy Skyrim on the PC was Sold out. Tescos near my work empty too.
    Dont beleive anti pc BS
    Edited by azic at 18/11/11 @ 16:09

  • agent55 #52 6 months ago

    Something the "PC Master Race" won't brag about.

  • varkdm #53 6 months ago

    There was a piece on C&VG in March this year that showed income from PC games was actually due to eclipse both consoles (taking into account current trends) at some time next year. Income from PC gaming in 2010 was at record levels.

    This of course includes subscriptions from games like WoW, but I dont think the PC games industry is really at any risk at all. The biggest growth was from China, but there was growth across the board from all major regions.

    "The report concludes that the global PC game business will continue to grow at a pace of nine percent compound annual growth rate to $23 billion (£14.1b) by 2014.

    Matt Ployhar, PCGA president and Intel analyst, said of the findings: "The spotlight has definitely shifted back to the PC game market. A few of the biggest factors fuelling this movement are innovative business models making games more accessible with digital distribution, free to play, and online; along with game formats embracing the shifts occurring in the evolution of the PC ecosystem to remain more profitable."

    The report was by the PC gaming Aliance, so .. maybe its bias, but they must have the figures from somewhere. I'm sure piracy is a problem, I certainly dont do it, most of the time its more hassle than its worth in my opinion, but this sounds to me more like a dev trying to justify sales figures to their share holders or owners. I played Arma II.. interesting concept but very poorly executed. If the game played out like the tutorial mission did, with options to have the pc tak over the extremely laborious command interface, i might have given it more time, but it was actually a chore to play, not a joy.

  • uninspiredcup #54 6 months ago

    I love Arma 2/Arrowhead great pc game.
    Pirates need to be killed, beheaded or castrated with there blood re-used to hemophiliacs.

  • uninspiredcup #55 6 months ago

    @JayG That was 280 thousand players playing at once, not total. Typically you times that number by 10....

  • Machiavellian #56 6 months ago

    Who says they're only just breaking even, or stuck on old technology?

    It was a hypothetical question, asking why do gamers believe is successful for a company. It seems that there is this mentality that game devs make great money, drive expensive cars and date movie stars. It's this belief I see when see comments like "oh they are making money so why should they care about piracy" or the other one where people saying they are going for the shock value because they noticed that a lot of people are hitting their servers instead of paying customers.

    Wiki says "The studio operates multiple high end optical Motion capture setups provided by technology leading Motion analysis and Vicon, Vivid-900 3D scanner by Minolta and RED One camera with complete set of lenses, lighting and related computer equipment".

    What makes you think they purchased this equipment. How do you know if the investment in this equipment was not bought via a loan and they are paying for it. That statement alone shows me you do not know how a business works if you are going to use equipment a company uses not knowing how they obtained it.

  • arcam #57 6 months ago

    That statement alone shows me you do not know how a business work

    You're the one who was suggesting they might be stuck on old technology - I was merely suggesting that that doesn't appear to be the case.

    It seems that there is this mentality that game devs make great money, drive expensive cars and date movie stars. It's this belief I see when see comments like "oh they are making money so why should they care about piracy

    And I certainly wasn't suggesting they are billionaires dating movie stars (I think you know this is a total strawman) - if anything I was saying the opposite - that just because they are not, doesn't mean they aren't a successful company.

    If your whole point was hypothetical - that it would be a bad thing if piracy forced a dev to like Bohemia to go under - then of course we can agree.

  • Ryboy #58 6 months ago

    @Wizard83 - If you're spending 2 large on a PC you're a fucking retard.

  • Inmediasress #59 6 months ago

    What is Arma anyway?
    The piracy issue is not valid and that's that.
    I don't have the patience to argue about it anymore.
    Short version they(meaning cartell like publishers and their underlings) want to exterminate PC gaming for the restricted consoles to milk you better.

    The resurgence of PC gaming is due to the fact that this console gen drwas to its end.
    When next gen hits we can forget that PC gaming ever existed at least for 2-3 years then when the next gen consoles reach their age limit again PC gaming comes back for awhile.
    Of course next gen consoles will be more powerfull and since the PC developement also starts to slow down next gen consoles will last far longer.
    Edited by Inmediasress at 18/11/11 @ 17:23

  • Ryboy #60 6 months ago

    It basically comes down to making games at a level where everyone and their cat wants to play it. I wonder how Valve's stats on piracy compare to Bohemia's.

  • Bigglesworth #61 6 months ago

    "The philosophy is not to try to prevent counterfeit and pirated games from running, but instead (or in addition) to degrade the end user experience of such copies," explained the developer.

    Hmm. Perhaps I'm too old school. Why not just run a file shredder across the user's hard disk?

  • geox30 #62 6 months ago

    Piracy is a plague for gaming as a whole not just PC.The PC platform does not have a colossal company like Sony,Nintendo or MS that constantly protects their ecosystem in order to benefit from it.PC is an open platform with all the advantages and disadvantages that comes from it.That being dead or will be in the near future is far from the truth.There are many good examples that suggest that even a PC exclusive can be very successful,with Witcher 2 being the first that comes to mind.Give the legitimate game greater value and you may turn eventhe cheapest bastard into a pottential customer.

  • arcam #63 6 months ago

    Why not just run a file shredder across the user's hard disk?

    For the same reason security guards don't run a cheese grater across a shoplifter's testicles - the law frowns upon it.
    Edited by arcam at 18/11/11 @ 19:07

  • Cobalt_Jackal #64 6 months ago

    Arrr, Ahoy me scallywags. Thie be nothing wrong with being a Pirate.. Arrrr me salty sea dogs. Harrr me be plundering some booty now... Don't forget jim lad Yarr, Harrr!! fiddle- dee-dee being a pirate is yarrrr alright with me. Do what thy want cuz a pirate is free...YOU ARRRR PIRATE!.
    Edited by Cobalt_Jackal at 18/11/11 @ 21:39

  • memeroot #65 6 months ago

    I pirate games. Im sorry.
    But the reason I do it is not to save money. I do it for fun.
    I will happily spend hours making a game run for free yet I earn 100's an hour.

    My playtime is about an hour- I have kids.

    I have done this since I was 8.

    I now make all your lives better through my work.
    im a better programmer because of it.

    I pay over 100k tax each year because I can do more than load a disc and play mw3.

    That is the argument for piracy.

    We make the programmers of tomorrow

    Ms understands this hence their freedom with basic code

    But it has to be a bit naughty and it has to be a bit hard.


    Make a puzzle a lock and let the kids evolve.

    Please note -all consoles in my house are un hacked. If they want it they have to work for it.

  • bad09 #66 6 months ago

    @scoop

    I honestly doubt Origin is about combating piracy.

    It's their own system they've been using for their own download store for a few years now (under the name EA download manager) and with Steam growing every year they changed it to look like Steam and now want a piece of big Gabes pie starting to offer other companies games.

  • memeroot #67 6 months ago

    Stop playing games learn how to make them this is what minecraft garuda mod unreal ms and real pirates understand. There has to be a carrot. We used to have code in the back if nagaInea

  • memeroot #68 6 months ago

    We cannot compete with china or korea or soon india with headshots

  • soviet_ #69 6 months ago

    The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim-Razor1911 - 13307 Seeders, 12747 Leechers. 2nd highest in Top 100 PC games.

    That's just from tpb. People who say PC piracy is not a problem are delusional.

    The attitude to DRM and prevention of piracy by the majority of publishers is piss poor though, need to be more forward thinking like Valve or Runic Games. Instead of "what can I do to stop people pirating my games?" it should be "what can I offer to the consumer to make them want to purchase my games?"

    Sadly, prevention methods are just as often attempts to stop second hand gaming and not piracy. The future, unless someone with a lot of weight in the industry and has their customers high on their list of priorities has their say, is always online. Ubisoft tried it first, but the games they are doing it with aren't special enough for most PC gamers to put up with. And it was cracked anyway. Diablo III changes that. No more pirates, no more second hand sales. Hackers want to spend a year to try server emulation and still not offer what the full game offers? No worry.

    I personally don't mind but I can see why a lot of people will be angry. I might be annoyed if my net dies for an evening but I can see why they are implementing methods like this and as long as the quality of the game is good enough, I shall still purchase it. And the pirates? If they want to play it they will have to purchase it too

  • bad09 #70 6 months ago

    "Fucking hell are you really so thick to wonder why they care that, given it costs to make a game, only 3% actually paid for it?"

    Before calling people thick you should read the article. He states "Our statistics from multiplayer show that for every three legitimate buyers playing their game in multiplayer, there are 100 (failed) attempts to play with a pirated version,"

    That does not give you a figure of only 3% actually buying the game (although it could right we just don't know). Like others have pointed out 100 "attempts" doesn't actually mean 100 seperate people pirated the game it just means they are blocking more attempts at trying to get in than there are legitimate people logging into the game.
    Edited by bad09 at 18/11/11 @ 21:15

  • skunkfish #71 6 months ago

    I don't know if anyone's looked at the numbers but PC game revenue has grown over the past 2 years whereas console revenues have shrunk...

  • bad09 #72 6 months ago

    @skunkfish

    Shhh..Don't tell 'em...

  • Machiavellian #73 6 months ago

    I don't know if anyone's looked at the numbers but PC game revenue has grown over the past 2 years whereas console revenues have shrunk...

    The question would be where has PC revenue grown. IS it MMOs either subscription and paid or is it retail box copy games like Arma.

  • nevarran #74 6 months ago

    I'm trying, man, I'm really trying, but I just can't sympathise with these guys. In Europe, we pay more, we get the games later and we don't have rental games...
    It's like hitting you with a baseball bat and then saying "bleeding is bad, mate"...

  • Machiavellian #75 6 months ago

    Once again, I am not advocating piracy, but I see nothing from the 'piracy is bad, piracy is harming gaming' crowd beyond fallacies, gibberish, and a lack of data. I also see a distinct lack of responses to my more salient points, which is rather telling.

    This is what I see. Staunch PC developers leave the platform and go console. Developers who cut their teeth on the PC platform having to develop for consoles because something is preventing them from making a decent living. Developers who stated the PC is their home and always will be, suddenly having to go multiplat.

    I see PC games that would be developed on the PC first now coming out 6 months or worst after the console version. I am seeing games that do not take advantage of the PC better specs but instead sometimes run worst than 6 year old tech from a console.

    Oh the reason i did not comment earlier because I was at work so only brief moments do I have to respond to questions.

    When piracy continue to increase instead of decrease it becomes something very worrying for a PC developer.

    Well now I feel bad for making developers worried. Let's assume your completely irrational and baseless position is correct for one moment. In fact, let's assume that in one year's time the commercial PC videogame releases have dried up almost completely, leaving only small indie devs.

    first to make something clear, you are making stuff up. Never have I mentioned or did I state or implied that commercial PC games will stop being produced on the PC platform and only leaving small indie devs. Since I have responded to such topics before you will actually find that I have never made such statements period in such discussions so pretty much everything you wrote after the quote is a rant on some mythical image you envisioned.

  • FrostPaw #76 6 months ago

    Personaly, I think Developers need to realise Pirates are not customers. Most Pirates have no intention of buying the game, they download it and play it because they can for free. If they couldn't do it for free, they just wouldn't play it.

    Look at it this way, you have a budget of one full price game per month. Thats 12 games a year. You can download 12 games a month if you want, it doesn't mean you can afford to buy 144 games a year if you can't download them.

    Think of it like TV, how often when watching tv have you put a movie on that you didn't really want to go watch at the cinema? You watch it, fine but if it wasn't on the tv, you still wouldn't have gone to the cinema and spent your money on it.

    Pirates are one thing....people you could encourage to buy your game who don't want to. You can't encourage them by giving them a bad experience, you have to encourage them by giving them a better experience and not treating customers like cash cow thieves withholding content from launch for DLC or making them jump through DRM hoops for actually giving you money.

    Start looking at ways to give customers a better experience instead of looking at how you can give Pirates a bad one. Pirates are never going to give you money for pissing them off but they might if they are jealous of what a customer gets.

  • varkdm #77 6 months ago

    To the chap that put the skyrim TPB figures up.. so about 26000 people at that time. I thought I read that Skyrim had sold an estimated 2.5m copies.. which would make those 26,000, 1% of the bought population. Even if it was just 1 million sold on the PC, which looks very reasonable from the Steam figures, thats 2.6%. This is a far cry from the 97 pirated coies for every 3 legitamate ones. In fact its so far from those figures as to be completely laughable.

    The dev here states "attempts". If you have a game and you try and connect to a server and it fails, what do you do? You try again. Presumably more than once until you either give up or get it working. If you have a game that is working it should connect to the server once.. so of course there will be lots and lots of attempts to connect to their server, its people trying to make the copy work.

    Im sure everyone is also aware of how unreliable DRM is, how many of those "pirated" copies, were legitamate copies with bugged DRM? You cant draw any conclusions from this news because it lacks so much information and uses spurious language and is from a biased source.
    Edited by varkdm at 19/11/11 @ 11:44

  • Stratix #78 6 months ago

    If something doesn't work, a person will naturally give it another go. Possibly more than once. Are they sure it's not the same people multiple times?

  • sourc0r #79 6 months ago

    thing is: most people (doesn't necessarily exclude me) want more things than they could afford, so they get a free copy from the internet.
    you can't argue that the number of people comitting piracy is low, but you can't translate that into 'missing sales' figures. don't think all people would have ever bought it even if they wouldn't have had illegal options at hand.


    it would be interesting to get a hold on the percentage of people you could really associate with a lost sale.

  • JensonJet #80 6 months ago

    As others have suggested... it's time to move away from the PC and develop the game for consoles. It's sad for the legitimate customers, but if this happens then they know who to blame... fellow PC users.

    The Operation Flashpoint argument is invalid because the game was effectively highjacked by Codemasters, who were clueless about continuing the series with any form of quality. If the sales of Battlefield and Modern Warfare are anything to go by Arma stands a good chance of making a decent profit.

    You'd imagine the best strategy for lauching the next Arma on consoles would be at the birth of the next generation.

  • varkdm #81 6 months ago

    I'm assuming you are also aware that piracy on the xbox is also common place? The PC is the single largest games market out there. The fact Gabe Newell is a billionaire and one of the richest men in the world should testify to the fact that PC gaming is definitely not a market to ignore, despite the risks from piracy.

  • Jorendo #82 6 months ago

    @JensonJet my god i hope you never become a politician. Seriousely you just say all pc users should be punished for pirates? Lets get a few facts right okay mister console fanboy?

    1. DS gets pirated shitloads
    2. xbox 360 comes close to the amount of pirated games as the pc
    3. PS2 check the numbers of the amount of people who inserted the pirate chip

    Its so easy to shout stop developing pc games. Thats the dumbest thing i ever heard. I guess you also one of those who says "We should not allow any school kids into shops anymore cause some of them steal candy" or "we should not allow foreign people in our country cause some of them become criminals" yes yes i know you say "thats not the same" guess what kiddo its the exact same thing. You want to punish a entire group for the behavior of a few.

    Get your facts right before you shout stupid stuff. Seriously the dumbest thing you can shout while clearly you are a console fanboy who only sees one thing. Do a bit of researgh. Steam sells more and more games each year. The witcher 2 has no anti piracy protection and guess what, it sold greatly the devs where very pleased.

    Beside ARMA wouldn't work on a console, console people are not used to that much realism. Every damn tactical game has been made uber easy for the consoles and beside that the consoles can't even pull off the power needed for games like ARMA. I play this game online legal on a hardcore server where you need all kind of mods to make it even more realistic. The console would never be able to pull it off like a pc, thats not fanboy talk but just facts looking at the power of consoles and controls (mouse beats controller).
    Edited by Jorendo at 22/11/11 @ 10:32

  • Jorendo #83 6 months ago

    Also wanna point out, i bought ARMA 2 when it came out. After 4 installations it just stopped letting me instal the game (2 times i had to reinstall my pc while arma 2 was installed, 1 time i upgraded my pc and the last time i made room but wanted to play again). Anyway, it let me instal the game but when i was about to start the game it claimed my key was not correct when ever i pressed the activation button, this is also registered and would sugest i got my game illegal. I contacted them about it and now months later i still have no awnser nor a key reset so i can instal the game again. I tried to activate it over 20 times so hey i guess im a pirate as well then by theit statitics.

    Now im a great ARMA 2 fan and luckely there was a arma 2 discount on steam so i bought ARMA 2 and it expansions (i didn't had the expansions yet) again. But still these attempts say nothing about the real sales figures vs pirates. Its really not 3 legal buys vs 100 pirated versions.

    What pisses me off is that some dumbheaded console kids come here shouting that pc gaming should die. WTF are you for gamers and once again shows the maturity of the console kids, you always cry your own machine is the best and the rest sucks. One thing to these getting hard ons on their console kids, most of these pirates are also console gamers who don't waste money on pc games so they pirate them while paying for their console games. So don't cry only pc gamers do it you idiots you don't know shit. Beside how do you type here without a pc, go back to your console stop you pointless stupid comment about other systems if you only care for your own machine and be so blinded about it (only goes for the fanboys not the normal console gamer).

  • POIDAH #84 6 months ago

    yeah, piracy is handy to get most content faster than the steam servers can provide, I bought skyrim thru steam, and it was only downloading at 50 Kbs at the most, for a whole night, then I torrented it, then got it within 7 hours. so piracy is a faster way of getting steam content, than the steam servers.