Halo creative director quits Halo 4

By Tom Phillips Published 6 September, 2011

"I'm not going to waste one more day."

Halo 4 creative director Ryan Payton has left developer 343 Industries, stating work on the game had become a "crazy endeavour".

Payton was writing the game's story and headed 343's creative team, tasked with developing the fictional Halo universe for the forthcoming sequel trilogy.

"After a few years, there came a point where I wasn't creatively excited about the project anymore," Payton told Kotaku.

"The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavour through."

After several years at Microsoft's massive Halo studio, Payton lost interest in the project. His change in heart was partly due to seeing friend and developer Jake Kazdal working on indie RTS Skulls of the Shogun.

"I never thought I'd get to a point where I was so drained," said Payton, who was at one point diagnosed with severe depression. "That was when I knew I had to do something else."

"I think time is the most valuable thing we have and I've decided that I'm not going to waste one more day working on something that doesn't speak to my values," he said.

Payton already has two new titles in the works at his own start-up studio Camouflaj, and big ambitions for the future.

"Some people say I'm crazy, but I want to make a game that one billion people play at once, and it's something that hits them harder than a great book or film," Payton concluded.

The world of Halo 4 revealed.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Phillips

Tom joined Eurogamer in 2010 and has quickly made his mark writing news and columns and coming up with puntastic straplines. Questionable beard. @TomPhillips151 on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Phillips archive page.

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Comments (72) Latest comment 9 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • windflaw #1 9 months ago

    Say Halo, wave goodbye...

  • oerhoert #2 9 months ago

    Respect.

  • SwashbucklingStuff #3 9 months ago

    Nice, low-key, quote to finish with there Ryan.

  • HL706 #4 9 months ago

    This is becoming more and more common accross the industry. Risk aversion is sparking the Indie revolution :)

  • CaptainQuint #5 9 months ago

    The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different

    Yeah, your P45 is in the post. Thank god he never got his own way.

    Anyway, in EG's eternal quest for sensationalism/hits, I find it rather telling that in their borrowing of the original Kotaku story they [deliberately] chose to ignore this part:

    This doesn't mean Payton thinks Halo 4 will be a bad game. The core team is top flight, and they are there because they want to make the best Halo they can. It's just not the Halo Payton wanted to make.

    Knock that cheap shit on the head, EG.
    Edited by CaptainQuint at 06/09/11 @ 12:08

  • Buztafen #6 9 months ago

    "Some people say I'm crazy, but I want to make a game that one billion people play at once, and it's something that hits them harder than a great book or film,"

    Mmm, okay...no you're not crazy Ryan...no put the scissors down...come on now stop drinking that print toner like its juice! Go to your happy place Ryan! Happy place!

  • Sodding_Gamer #7 9 months ago

    Squeezing another trilogy into a franchise that really has been squeezed dry. I can see why he lost ambition. Plus Microsoft is probably sitting on his right shoulder trying to get him to write what they want.

  • benfresh76 #8 9 months ago

    Admirable sentiments, pretty much sums up the feelings of a lot of game developers.

  • iamtheoneneo #9 9 months ago

    nice that there are some devs left with an ounce of integrity. Im sure he got drained pretty hard making the same game 5 times and it seems to be happening with alot of studios as of late - the need to innovate , to make something thats more then a cash machine.

    We need more people like this in the industry and especially neat the top , thats the only way we can prevent seeing a Halo 20 , or COD 50, or MGS45 - GL to him.
    Edited by iamtheoneneo at 06/09/11 @ 10:57

  • Golgo #10 9 months ago

    "Some people say I'm crazy, but I want to make a game that one billion people play at once, and it's something that hits them harder than a great book or film."

    Those people might be onto something.


    Edit: dammit, gazumped by Buztafen!
    Edited by Golgo at 06/09/11 @ 10:58

  • des #11 9 months ago

    Halo has tons of "creative directors" and 343i is now like 200+ people studio.

    "A few months ago, Payton woke up, unable to move and unwilling to get out of bed, just staring at the ceiling. Payton was diagnosed with severe depression."

    Severely depressed people opening new studios...meh

  • Gearskin #12 9 months ago

    Wait... He wants to make a game that a billion play at once... He's working on a big hitter... And quits? Dude just made that dream tougher, right?

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #13 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 16:59:10 06-02-2012

  • spekkeh #14 9 months ago

    "After a few years, there came a point where I wasn't creatively excited about the project anymore," Payton told Kotaku.

    And it took you seven installments to realise Microsoft was milking the series dry and not interested in creativity at all?

    edit: where's the Sony Defense Force when you need em
    Edited by spekkeh at 06/09/11 @ 13:18

  • HyperTails #15 9 months ago

    Well good luck to him. If he felt it wasn't worth his time then its fair enough that he should call it quits.

  • IronGiant #16 9 months ago

    They should scrap this tired series now, how about a new franchise MS?

  • Kayin #17 9 months ago

    Poor guy. Reality's going to hit him hard with that 'billion player' thing.

  • DirectAim #18 9 months ago

    The guy needs a holiday

  • The-Bodybuilder #19 9 months ago

    This isn't a halo problem; this is symptomaticof an industry that feels the need to run to the ground any original idea till there is not a drop of sweat left in it.

    This is not a Halo problem, or even an MS problem (well it is, but you know what I mean), it's an industry problem.
    And the sad thing is, with people calling for a new generation, it will only get worse.

  • HyperTails #20 9 months ago

    @IronGiant

    New franchise? lol this is Microsoft we're talking about here, they have Gears, Forza, Halo, Fable all on milking machines and Kinect crap being shoved out.

    Speaking of Kinect, it says a lot when what appears to be the best use of Kinect comes from Sega, a 3rd party, and not Microsoft. Says it all.

  • Quint2020 #21 9 months ago

    "I'm not going to waste one more day" Now that is one seriously out of context sub-heading!

  • ZizouFC #22 9 months ago

    "Some people say I'm crazy, but I want to make a game that one billion people play at once, and it's something that hits them harder than a great book or film," Payton concluded.

    So he wants to make a Facebook game? I don't get it. There are more than enough people who play Halo.

  • Subdominator #23 9 months ago

    One thing these people don't get: A job is a job. Yes, it's more enjoyable if you have fun doing it, but in the end it is only there to pay the bills. If he's depressive it won't help just to change his job. It will be even worse if he ends up being one of the 80 % of indie developers whose games barely sell 1.000 copies worldwide.

    To be honest: I am glad a guy who has worked on Metal Gear Solid is no longer responsible for the story of Halo 4. ;)

    And he has not exactly a stable track record so far:

    2002-2003 Seattle AM Radio
    2003-2004 Xbox Nation Magazine
    2004-2005 Japan Times, Famitsu, Wired, Future, 1UP, etc
    2005-2008 Konami Japan | Kojima Productions
    2008-2011 Microsoft Games Studios | 343 Industries (Halo Studio)
    2011- NOW indie developer

    Seems like it's not a problem of 343i but of himself when he changes employers so often.

    Cause of depression:

    ryanpayton Ryan Payton
    3DS price cut, huh? Just bought one six days ago...

    Edited by Subdominator at 06/09/11 @ 11:24

  • Lexx87 #24 9 months ago

    Yeah because Microsoft are the only ones with big franchises.

    Sometimes I despair at you lot I really do.

  • BSMR #25 9 months ago

    For all we know the only "tired" elements coming across from the previous Halo titles are Chief, Cortana and the Forerunner art style.

    IMO, Reach was the high point for the series, we have no idea what 343 will do now Bungie have stepped aside.

  • arcam #26 9 months ago

    Halo 4 creative director Ryan Payton has left developer 343 Industries, stating work on the game had become a "crazy endeavour".

    I think you got that the wrong way round. The "crazy endeavour" was what he wanted to do with the game, but they wouldn't let him.

  • karlidog #27 9 months ago

    I wonder if he wanted Halo 4 to be drastically different to the previous games and was getting shot down by conservatism and 'brand identity', or if it's the opposite and he's one of these 'Halo must be Halo' types (after five games!) while the team wants to break relatively new ground. In either case, I hope the direction of Halo 4 is a huge surprise. But I suspect it won't be.

  • WinterSnowblind #28 9 months ago

    I can definitely see where this guy is coming from, working on the same franchise for so long is really going to take it out of you. But I don't see why so many pin this solely on Microsoft or Halo inparticular. It's said every time this argument comes up, but Halo has had relatively few sequels in its 10 years compared to most other franchises.. just look at something like Assassins Creed, which has already over taken it in less than half that amount of time.

    Saying Halo is being milked, then running out to buy the next Metal Gear or Assassins Creed game is extremely hypocritical. I don't like that we're about to see three new Halo games, but its far from the worst offender for constant sequels.

  • M4RV #29 9 months ago

    Coming from the same dickhead who thought he played a BIG role in both the developement and success of Metal Gear Solid 4... Bye bye, can't say I'll miss you.

  • Subdominator #30 9 months ago

    @WinterSNowBlind: He only worked on the Halo franchise for two years. :D

    @arcam: His crazy endeavour was probably trying to make Halo 4 become a Facebook game played by one billion people. :D
    Edited by Subdominator at 06/09/11 @ 11:30

  • anomagnus #31 9 months ago

    Now, I’m sure the halo haters will be clapping their hands in joy. Halo is dead, they’ll shout.

    But reading this, and I know it’s a leap, this reads like a guy sick of his job, wanted to do something that suited HIM, and not the project, and then getting pissed of when put in his box.

    I want to create something a billion people play at once? Hyperbole, I know, he’s exaggerating a bit, but its clear he’s a man of ambition. But he’s in halo 4, MS can’t afford the risk of doing something 100% different in a franchise that high profile that late in the game.

  • arcam #32 9 months ago

    @WinterSnowblind

    In the last four years there's been Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo Wars, Halo ODST and the Halo Remake, as well as announcing Halo Waypoint and a new Halo trilogy. Milky milky.

  • RoOhDaMite #33 9 months ago

    Halo's story was at it's best at Halo CE. Glad he left.

  • DozyKipper #34 9 months ago

    Good luck to him. It's about time devs stopped churning out the same trash.

  • benfresh76 #35 9 months ago

    @Subdominator: 'A job is a job'? For you maybe...What's wrong with aspiring to do more? I admire this man's ambition; the billion people playing all at once thing reads wrong, I think what he means is creating a product that transcends the medium and touches a mass market on an artistic and cultural level in a way that games have yet to achieve. I'd like to shake his hand, I feel like a kindred spirit.

  • miiiguel #36 9 months ago

    A billion ? Seriously ?! Your going to join Rovio and be the creative director for Angry Birds 2 ?

  • Laythe_AD #37 9 months ago

    I can see where he's coming from. I'd struggle as well. None the less, I am left to boggle at the bandwagon idiots immediately diving in with the anti halo or anti 360 vibe. I mean, sheesh, grow up. For all that such franchises get easily very tired, its rather notable that Reach was frankly a drasticly better game than the horrifyingly un-fun last two Killzones. Revolutionary it was'nt, but it was exceedingly well made and fun to play, with a very solid campaign. I own my PS3 for the exclusives, the Uncharted's, Disgaea's, Heavy Rains, but its FPS's are certainly not among those. Both Killzone and Resistance have thus far been frighteningly mediocre.

  • sonicyoda #38 9 months ago

    Those 'WARNING' signals are going crazy.

  • Subdominator #39 9 months ago

    @arcam: Halo Waypoint is a free database. The new Halo trilogy will be spread across five years. If they were milking the franchise, why has there only been one spinoff with Halo Wars? Why no Halo Racing, Halo Adventures, Halo Kinect, Halo MMO?

    The reason why there were Halo 3, Halo ODST and Halo Reach in rapid succession is simple: When Bungie wanted to quit they signed a contract with Microsoft to develop two more Halo games for them. ODST was supposed to be an addon but Bungie felt it could shorten its contract by turning it into a full game.

    Microsoft obviously wants to get out one Halo game a year now, they'll probably do Halo 4 in 2012, Halo 2 Anniversary in 2013, Halo 5 in 2014 ... but that's still not milking.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #40 9 months ago

    I'd rather they WERE milking the franchise more. I wanted a Kinect-based Halo Wars 2, a squad-based shooter, an RPG... I mean, none of these would have furthered the story, I just would like to see the universe explored a bit more.

  • DDevil #41 9 months ago

    A billion? Pah, go for a trillion you pussy!

    Sure there's not a trillion people on Earth, but aim high!

  • DwarfyP #42 9 months ago

    "Some people say I'm crazy, but I want to make a game that one billion people play at once, and it's something that hits them harder than a great book or film."

    So he is working on the next CoD game then?

  • zegerman1942 #43 9 months ago

    What is it with massive ego creative directors that throw all toys out of the pram when something does not go the way they want?

    "ohhh my vision can't be realized!" - it took you 3 years to figure that out? How far into the wrong direction did you push development and how much hassle is that now creating for the rest of the team?

    How do these people get into the positon of being a Creative Director anyway?

  • arcam #44 9 months ago

    why has there only been one spinoff with Halo Wars?

    Probably because it was an commercial failure...

    The definition of "milking" is subjective, but personally I think for a game that is supposed to have a significant single player portion, releasing a game every year is nearly always to the detriment of the series, and that includes Halo or any other game.

    The kind of gaps we saw between Halo, Halo 2 and Halo 3 are a much, much better way to keep the series interesting IMO.

  • RedSparrows #45 9 months ago

    Halo Wars wasn't a commercial failure.

  • RedSparrows #46 9 months ago

    Also the main releases have been spaced out. However, they have been filling the gaps with smaller titles - same franchise, but ODST wad very different, for example.

  • repeater #47 9 months ago

    Payton was writing the game's story and headed 343's creative team

    Fool should have known there is neither use nor need for creativity in the sequel factory known as Microsoft Game Studios.

  • arcam #48 9 months ago

    Also the main releases have been spaced out. However, they have been filling the gaps with smaller titles

    Sorry, but that is pretty much the definition of milking isn't it?

  • zm26 #49 9 months ago

    Post deleted at 13:15:51 16-05-2012

  • BSMR #50 9 months ago

    It's remarkable to me how much vitriol Halo can stir up. There seems to be a core group who will just hate on it no matter what. Aside from COD, I can't think of another game series that garners such hatred.

    Of course, the odd thing about Halo is so much of the criticism is just plain factually wrong.

    In 10 years there have been 4 core FPS Halo games, an expansion that was changed to a full retail release in the form of Recon/ODST, and an RTS that I personally found very enjoyable.

    We're getting the Halo remake as a HD 10th anniversary release, a common feature in the gaming industry today, and over the course of the next god knows how many years, a new trilogy has been announced.

    You can say milking all you like, but the facts just don't support that claim.

    Assassins Creed is on 7 releases (including handhelds) and 8 including facebook in just 4 years.

  • arcam #51 9 months ago

    Alright, sorry, honestly I don't mind how many Halo games they release.

    I just take issue with people who say Halo isn't subject to the same sequelitis as other big franchises. That may have been true before Halo 3, but it's now subject to the same kind of pressure for similar sequels as many other AAA games, and I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of anti-creative attitude is part of the reason for Ryan Payton leaving.

  • GamesConnoisseur #52 9 months ago

    Personally, I understand his decision and support it fully, Anyone can get a creative burnout at ANY place or project, especially if they worked on the same stuff for a long while.

    You telling me NOONE moved out of Naughty Dog, Ico Team etc etc?

    Sure PR wise, it's doesn't look good. Same way when Big Phil Harrison said he quitting Sony. Why?! Great job and company to work for, where millions would give up their right arm for! ( I m left handed and so switch your limb of choice yourselves!)

  • L0cky #53 9 months ago

    @Subdominator "A job is just a job"

    Depends on the person, the job, and what you want out of life. Could be you're doing the job you're doing because that's what you want out of life.

    That's especially important in a creative job. Someone doing it to pay the bills isn't going to produce anything nearly as good as someone who's doing it because they want to achieve something.

  • Sir_STRESSHEaD #54 9 months ago

    Halo milked? Are you crazy?? Reach was by FAR the best release of the franchise! In my understanding... that means that the franchise is far from milked.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #55 9 months ago

    Why is this been read is such a way that people think he's been working on Halo since the beginning and is bored with the franchise?

    He's only been there 3 years and 343 haven't released any games yet. The first one they will release is a remake where the story is already in place.

    Given that, I don't think he has earned the right to take it off in a "fundamentally different" direction.

    Basically, he's been mostly working on ONE Halo game/story, Halo 4; and because he wanted to do something that key people at the company didn't agree with, he left. Depression and having his own Studio may have also been factors.

  • syra #56 9 months ago

    Oh lol people still care about halo?

  • Syrette #57 9 months ago

    Wish Microsoft had the same idea - a new (non-Kinect) IP would be nice!

  • Luvbeers #58 9 months ago

    What a homo. Halo 4 might turn out good now!

  • Ror1984 #59 9 months ago

    Key quote that people seem to be willfully ignoring in order to support their bias:

    "The Halo I wanted to build was fundamentally different and I don't think I had built enough credibility to see such a crazy endeavour through."

    Let's hope his ego didn't derail the production too much.

  • spekkeh #60 9 months ago

    But I don't see why so many pin this solely on Microsoft or Halo inparticular.

    Who does? Maybe because it's an FPS and as of yet there's no other series like AC. That said, I ain't buying another AC installment. Stop crying.

    If they were milking the franchise, why has there only been one spinoff with Halo Wars? Why no Halo Racing, Halo Adventures, Halo Kinect, Halo MMO?

    Because it doesn't lend itself to that. They would if they could, and you know it.

  • 32768Colours #61 9 months ago

    I'm only a gamer and even I'm starting to feel a bit this way about a lot of bigger franchises out there. So I can well imagine that there must be many creative individuals that feel down-beat by the grind of knocking out endless sequels for a massive franchise.

    On one hand there's doubtless the relative job security that comes with such success, but as most of us will have experienced at one time or another, that isn't necessarily enough to stop you becoming sick of your job.

    In the end, we're still going to get Halo 4, but now we have the chance that this chap might turn out his own game that's worth buying too. So fair play to him I say. I wish him all the best in his new endeavours :)

  • Xardan #62 9 months ago

    Sounds like the guy is a little fed up.

    And EG use this as an excuse for fan bait.

    /slowclap

  • Dave52 #63 9 months ago

    "What do you mean I have to make it work with Kinect...? Fuck that. I resign".

  • The-Bodybuilder #64 9 months ago

    Play through "The Library II" 14 times on the hardest difficulty without dying.

    Achievement unlocked - 5g "The Crazy Endeavour".

  • kassmageant #65 9 months ago

    he was very diplomatic with his choice of words - but he basicaly said what we all expected - WARNING! MONEY-GRAB DETECTED

  • Spong #66 9 months ago

    Good on him for quitting, shame it took so long. There's no satisfaction in the knowledge that the only people who play your games are thick cunts with short attention-spans.

  • matseffect #67 9 months ago

    Honestly it sounds like he quit because he was not very happy there. I am a big halo fan and will be sad that he's won't be there to continue to work on it, but its important to do what love and want to do with your life.

  • HyperTails #68 9 months ago

    @WinterSnowblind

    Funny you mention Assassin's Creed, because there's a couple of things wrong with that.

    1) There's only been 3 (coming upto 4) main games. A couple of portable spinoffs don't count, as Halo's have all been on console.
    2) Assassin's Creed was a mediocre game at best, but they took all the criticism and gave us the brilliant Assassin's Creed 2. And Brotherhood was even better. Everything, from the graphics, to the lead character, to the setting, to the gameplay, was much, much improved. Bungie never improved Halo, as we all remember the Halo 2 release when people hated its SP. And Halo 3 had a wank SP as well. Brilliant MP, crap SP. And then ODST was pretty crappy, even a lot of diehard Halo fans didn't enjoy it. And Reach was an improvement, but nothing spectacular. Anniversary I doubt will be known as a AAA classic.
    3) Assassin's Creed is one of the best new IP's this Gen.
    4) This is Ezio's final game (*sniff*), and Ubisoft haven't announced an entirely new trilogy (sequel is fine, new trilogy is pushing it) before a remake of the first is released.

    Assassin's Creed maybe getting slightly milked, but the core game quality isn't decreasing, and its not being farmed out at the rate Microsoft are farming out Halo.

  • whatfruit #69 9 months ago

    Best of luck Payton, wish you good luck with your future endeavours.

  • BSMR #70 9 months ago

    @HyperTails:

    Funny you mention Assassin's Creed, because there's a couple of things wrong with that.

    Namely, everything you posted is based on the fact you don't rate Halo, which is not what we're talking about. Also, If there have been 5 Halo games in 10 years, and 4 "main" Assassins Creed titles in 4 years, the point still stands, Assassins Creed is being "milked" twice as fast as Halo, faster if you count handheld titles.

  • cyber_nicco #71 9 months ago

    i don't know why people keep suggesting this guy has worked on the franchise for "so long". He's just an unhappy person who's going to find a reason be unhappy at his job. I mean, come on, what a great fucking job!

    When one is depressed, it is very difficult to have a rational and balanced take on things like work, relationships, etc. I know this from personal experience.

  • MARKIV #72 9 months ago

    Surely this news doesn't bode well for Halo 4. If the game is a flop we'll know why! I'm amazed Microsoft allowed him to speak his mind before the games release.. "...crazy endeavour" Hmmm.