Rage Xbox 360 a 21-22GB install

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 8 August, 2011

Yikes.

If you want to install upcoming shooter Rage on your Xbox 360 you'll need to make some serious room – about 22GBs.

id Software programming legend John Carmack revealed the gargantuan install size during his QuakeCon keynote (reported by GamingBolt)

"On the 360 we don't have a partial install option," he said. "It's all or nothing, which is kind of unfortunate. It means you have to install 21/22GB of stuff which takes a long time but if you've got it and you play it on the 360 that's the way to go."

Why is it the way to go? Because not installing the game means latency.

"Once you get everything from memory that works pretty good, but if you're coming straight from the hard drive then the first time you walk into everything from the DVD or from the Blu-ray – even worse in terms of total latency time – you listen to that Blu-ray churning around as it's pulling everything in," Carmack continued.

Tom played the first couple of hours of Rage last week and returned enthused. "The Sisyphean grind of Doom 3 has been replaced by a post-apocalyptic, quasi-openworld crust, and within that the immediacy of control, flying body parts and dense, corkscrewing level design – corridors galore – have been embellished with smart combat modifiers and, of course, some of the fastest, most detailed graphics you've ever seen, flooding out of your preferred buffer at 60 frames per second," he wrote in Eurogamer's Rage preview.

John Carmack's Quakecon 2011 keynote.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (74) Latest comment 6 months ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • yoomazir #1 7 months ago

    I have some space left on my 250 hdd, bring it on !
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 13:15

  • MojoDex #2 7 months ago

    So what 3 discs then? Which means that install isnt all at once surley?

  • LHH #3 7 months ago

    Lucky for me I'll be doing the sensible thing and buying it for my pc.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 13:17

  • dupplawt #4 7 months ago

    woah.

  • makeamazing #5 7 months ago

    So i guess you have to install it all on the PS3 as well then? If he is talking about issues with the Blu-Ray drive

  • havoc2011 #6 7 months ago

    Xbox for me. Will still have over 180gb free space so bring it on.

  • superfurry #7 7 months ago

    Damn PC devs cutting corners for consoles! This would never happen the other way around!!!!

    Really.

    Ok, not really.

  • CaptainKid #8 7 months ago

    "Once you get everything from memory that works pretty good, but if you're coming straight from the hard drive then the first time you walk into everything from the DVD or from the Blu-ray – even worse in terms of total latency time – you listen to that Blu-ray churning around as it's pulling everything in," Carmack continued."

    What?

  • Skooch #9 7 months ago

    The headline is interesting in that it excludes mention of the PS3, which with a low speed Blu Ray drive is in a worse position in terms of the install. Still this is an option and not a necessity so people shouldn't get too worked up.

  • coolbritannia #10 7 months ago

    Carmack - Blu-Rays "pull everything in"

  • MasterNameless #11 7 months ago

    Yeah, it sounds like he's confused between the PS3 and 360. I don't see why I can't install it in the same way as I did with Mass Effect 2 - when it hit the single disc swap point, I simply deleted the install for the first disc, installed the second, and never had to worry about it again.

    Unless you'll have to swap back and forth between discs constantly throughout Rage, and I highly doubt that as it'll surely be a suicidal move by the devs, then I really can't see a problem. Installing the discs is only an option anyway, as many people are probably happy to put up with the little extra load times/latency.

  • GAmbrose #12 7 months ago

    I am usually a huge proponent of the Xbox 360, but because of the Steam offers last weekend I ended up pre-ordering it on PC (And getting loads of ID/Bethesda games for under Ł40)

    Sounds like I made the right move. I can still play it on my 50" Plasma with an Xbox 360 pad, albeit on PC rather than Xbox.

  • onyxbox #13 7 months ago

    This won't be so bad as long as you don't need to keep switching the disks once installed.

    Any ideas if this is the case?

  • The-Jack-Burton #14 7 months ago

    Carmack basically stated that of the two consoles, 360 version is the one to get, because they could never quite get it running right on the PS3. He also says that you need to install the entire game for the 360 if you want it to run right.

    He is already apologizing, saying the critics are definitely going to 'ding' the game because of some of the issues the game has. He said some textures and details can take up to 15 seconds to fully load, a worst case scenario, but it's there.

    Carmack also stated that the next game they make will benefit from all of the stuff they learned, but they were too far down the development path to make any significant changes to Rage.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 13:25

  • yegon #15 7 months ago

    They ought to have had this option with GT5 on the ps3, instead of the piecemeal approach it took after the initial install. Can't wait through a 90 minute install? Dont install it then you impatient bugger.
    Edited by 2 at 08/08/11 @ 13:24

  • Gun-Nut #16 7 months ago

    I know people still have small HDDs so it does suck there is no disc playing option but it will be nice to install all 3 discs and just start it with one and play without having to worry about a disc change! I install all my Games to HDD anyways when I know I'm going to be playing them.

  • arcam #17 7 months ago

    @The-Jack-Burton

    Source?

  • FortysixterUK #18 7 months ago

    This must be what the new 320 GB HD xboxes are for.
    Gears of war one already pre-ordered. For Rage. And greed.

  • CaptainKid #19 7 months ago

    Isn't Microsoft still selling a version of the new slim Xbox without a HD?
    So this should run fine without an install...right?

    Hahaha.

  • carrotcake #20 7 months ago

    @makeamazing No you don't have to install it all on PS3 (from John's keynote). Sony only allowing partial install and ID Software are fighting to be allowed as many gigabytes of install as they can get because it will make the game better.

  • mamac123 #21 7 months ago

    how many GB will it be for PC then WOW

  • metallicorphan #22 7 months ago

    22gig is no biggie,L.A.Noire,Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey all had similar installs

  • TheEarlOfZinger #23 7 months ago

    Disk swapping. ha!

  • AnotherIdiot #24 7 months ago

    Translation: PS3 IS WAY BETTER THAN XBOX 360.

  • uglygamer #25 7 months ago

    Ive still got the 20gb HDD :D
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 13:38

  • DwarfyP #26 7 months ago

    @makeamazing
    Since BluRay reads slower than DVD you will indeed have the same problem on both consoles.

  • GAmbrose #27 7 months ago

    @ AnotherIdiot - I'm sure you are just trolling but:

    "everything from the DVD or from the Blu-ray – even worse in terms of total latency time – you listen to that Blu-ray churning around as it's pulling everything in"

  • Thunderbolt #28 7 months ago

    For some early 360 adopters we only have a 20 gb so

  • Subdominator #29 7 months ago

    @Gun-Nut: There is of course a disc play option.

    And no, PS3 version will actually be the worst. Blu-ray is the slowest medium of all and Sony doesn't allow a full install of the game, only partial install. Carmack said a month ago that the different versions are:

    PC full install > 360 full install > PS3 partial install > 360 HD caching > 360 no HD

    And with a full install you don't have to swap discs.

  • Thunderbolt #30 7 months ago

    This is problem so its the ps 3 for me then

  • WinterSnowblind #31 7 months ago

    And this is why we'll definitely be seeing new consoles from Microsoft and Sony next year.

  • makeamazing #32 7 months ago

    Thanks Carrotcake, DwarfyP...

    Thats what i thought, sounds a bit suspect then for PS3, as though i think BR is great, it is only 1x speed and any game that makes it read a lot does make me worry :(

  • Subdominator #33 7 months ago

    Yeah, for games Blu-ray is pretty messy. I guess Microsoft will choose something like 5D DVD for the next console.

  • makeamazing #34 7 months ago

    I think the latest BR would be fine, its just the PS3 is what 5 years old, and it was the first release of BR, so the speed is cack. Hopefully in the PS4 it will be alot faster and less of a concern, but a game like this without full PS3 install... big problem i think

  • rottingyoda #35 7 months ago

    Fortunate my PC has a couple of spare terabytes. Think thats the pony i'll go for then

  • Subdominator #36 7 months ago

    If your PC is good enough, sure. It's also the only version with FSAA.

  • Djimm #37 7 months ago

    "Carmack also stated that the next game they make will benefit from all of the stuff they learned, but they were too far down the development path to make any significant changes to Rage."

    Thanks John, way to convince me not to buy your latest game at all and instead wait until you sort your tech out!

    Given how crowded Rage's release window is with games that don't have their lead developer slagging them off, some self censorship might have been advisable.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 14:17

  • apoc_reg #38 7 months ago

    Bodes well for content!!!

    My PC also have 2 Tb free so whats a 22gig install!

  • telboy007 #39 7 months ago

    It won't be 22gig on the PC, I suspect it'll be more (higher resolution textures, etc).

  • gandhimaster #40 7 months ago

    i reckon microsoft's next console will be download only so we best get used to this kind of "install" anyways.

    don't see them going blu ray as if a console span is 5/6/7 years roughly, they will want download only within that frame of time anyways.

    onto the point tho, that install sucks a big fat one, but i guess at least it is optional..... sucks badly for people without a big enough HDD. another "benefit" of MS's pay and you go console release methods.

  • Badassbab #41 7 months ago

    PC for me but will rent it on 360 for my bro.

  • varnavides #42 7 months ago

    #31 "And this is why we'll definitely be seeing new consoles from Microsoft and Sony next year. "

    This.

    I hope so anyway.

  • aidey6 #43 7 months ago

    @ ganhimaster.. I'd be very surprised if Microsoft went download only for their next console, as it could upset the retailers which they've managed to build good relationships with plus also the size of game files are likely to increase and as not all ISP's in markets such as the UK have unlimited downloading therefore they're likely not want their customers complaining that they can only download games during non peak hours before they can get to play them.

    Commercial suicide i'd say...

  • jonbwfc #44 7 months ago

    Seems in this case he's mentioned it more because the 360 version apparently will have a mandatory install, which is quite unusual IIRC, rather than him specifically bad-mouthing the 360. PS3 users probably won't find anything unusual about Rage having an install. Plus there is the issue that there were/are Xboxes with 20Gb hard drives which obviously can't take it, whereas, (again, assuming my memory is correct) the smallest hard drive that the PS3 ever had is 40GB. Plus I suspect given the cost differential, I suspect more PS3 owners have upgraded their hard drive than 360 owners...

    Jon

  • RodHull #45 7 months ago

    Sounds like a bit of a faff, but 360 installs tend to be a lot swifter than PS3 partial installs. Most 360 discs take just under ten minutes, whereas PS3 installs can take anywhere from twenty minutes to an ice age.

  • Monkeyspoon #46 7 months ago

    Digital foundry and lense of truth should use the non installed 360 when comparing versions. Seeing as it's not compulsory and a lot of 360s won't have big enough hds.

  • Architect_z #47 7 months ago

    *sigh* don't get this on PS3, just shows how crap the Xbox is. TROLL TROLL TROLL LA LA LA LA LALAAAAAAAAA

    TROLL TROLL TROLL

    Please Neg me, I wanna make the big 75.

  • TheVoice #48 7 months ago

    People saying "Blu-ray is slower than DVD" aren't quite getting the facts right. Blu-ray at 1x read speed is 36Mbits/sec vs DVD at 10.5Mbits/sec (thanks Wikipedia). The difference is that DVD-ROM drives are designed to read at much higher speeds than BD drives at the moment, and this is specifically the case with the PS3 which has quite a slow drive.

    I realise this is being slightly pedantic, but some comments here are making DVD out to be the superior technology when it really isn't.

  • tancredo #49 7 months ago

    It would be fine if MS would expand the maximum install size on external drives. I think right now we have a max of aprox. 20Gb. I do not think it would be too hard to expand it to 30-40Gb.

    It made sense when the 20Gb drives were on the market, but right now we are up to the upcoming 320Gb drive.

  • Mik3yB #50 7 months ago

    I run a launch 20gb drive with about 6gb spare..

    It'll make more sense for me to just get the PC version where I have plenty more room on there.
    There's no point me buying a new 360 drive now, I rarely run in to problems with space.. until now!

  • Dave52 #51 7 months ago

    Hmmm... looks like an interesting Face-Off waiting to happen.

    I'm a little confused though, is he flagging this up because a lot of Xbox Owners just won't be able to run this at all...? A mandatory install is pretty standard for PS3 owners, but will it insist on a full install or partial or what...?

    Can we flesh this story out a little please EG...? I was looking at getting this for my Son around Christmas time, he's on a PS3 with an upgraded 500mb hd, so space isn't an issue, but shitness of game/ performance might be.


    EDIT: Can't spell Face.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 16:50

  • davisorle #52 7 months ago

    I put together my new pc just last Wednesday so Id be an idiot to consider a game like Rage specially for a console.

    I was watching the Keynote from Carmack the night before yesterday while at work. Amazing what a guy like him has to say even for a damn 90 minutes straight :) As for the installation the only reason why the PS3 installation isnt as much right now is cause they are still talking with Sony about how much they are allowed to use for installation. 360 owners should be thankful for the 22GB of installation and the PS3 owners should pray to God its as big.

    @ makeamazing According to Carmack one of the 360 advantages is that they can have the whole textureset in the HDD where in the PS3 they cant yet. Sony gives them a limit so far for the installation. I bet that 18GB out of the 22 are textures cause the game looks stunning :p

    He said they will work on giing out an texture pack with ultimate HD textures which is more than welcome as soon as possible cause I dont wanna have finished the game and the it being released. I dont have time to finish games a second time anymore.

  • anthonypappa #53 7 months ago

    dave25: it will run on 360 without install - though you wouldn't want to.

    and ps3 likely has a mandatory partial install but no full install.

  • vizzini #54 7 months ago

    @TheVoice

    Yes, the baseline 12xDVD rom in a 360 according to the wiki tops out at just under twice the speed(132.96 Mbits/sec) of the baseline Playstation 2xBlu-ray (72 Mbit/s).

    Even though the 360 isn't really able to achieve that full bandwidth(much like with USB), but HDD/DVD transfers usual incurr cache misses, which is a lesser issue on the PS3's architecture.

    The problem of latency that will really plague the PS3 blu-ray in games is the seek time, which will be the bigger bottleneck when using small files accessed randomly.

    With Carmack effectively saying the game really needs an install to alleviate problems and 360 arcade SKUs(and original 20gb p23 fat) shipping without at least 40GB of storage, this gets pretty close to failing the TRC for 360/PS3 hardware compatibility.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 17:17

  • Astro-Creature #55 7 months ago

    DVD are only good for nostalga reasons.

  • Machiavellian #56 7 months ago

    "On the 360 we don't have a partial install option,"

    crikey...so its fuck you 4gb slimers!

    Now just imagine if sony had done something lke this....

    You do know the game does run without installing. As many have mentioned, you probably will not want to run it that way, it does so those 4gb slimers can still play the game.

    From what I have read about the preview event, the PS3 needs the full install just like the 360. People were complaining about the huge texture pop in like Mass Effect on the 360 but worst.

  • Kaminari #57 7 months ago

    It's been decades since Carmack was at the top of his game... But then again, he's always been a DOS developer (even claiming Doom would never be able to run on an Amiga 68030 -- ha!).

  • weebl #58 7 months ago

    Everyone's assuming that for all of the technical wizardry that John is able to do that the game will actually be good to play...

    I don't want textures popping in and a premature drive failure (again), so maybe I won't be buying your game John.

  • eltonpr0n #59 7 months ago

    I pity the poor does in the dark ages with arcade or 20 gig xbox. I guess the ps3 install will be hefty too

  • Monkeyspoon #60 7 months ago

    After watching that I cancelled my preorder. I want to see how buggy it is before I spend money on it.

  • addugg #61 7 months ago

    "You're a fool for buying that Ł250gb HDD. Stick with yer 20gb, that'll cover everything."

    Whose laughing now huh? Huh? Me, that's who!

  • IneptPercy #62 7 months ago

    Should have enough room on my 500gb 360 but will go on the PC 1TB raid array (which is starting to feel small).

  • bratmandu #63 7 months ago

    I reckon this game will be a massive turkey.

  • Cjail #64 7 months ago

    Simply Rage requires 22gb of datas to be streamed constantly in order to run, but since that much data can't be housed on a single Xbox disc, due to memory limitation, the game obviously requires you to install them on the hard disc.
    For Final Fantasy XIII splitting the datas on 2 discs has penalised the Xbox version compared to the PS3, so the true question is: will Rage have the same fate?
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 22:20

  • Collymilad #65 7 months ago

    I wonder how big the mandatory PS3 install will be? 2X drive ftw.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/11 @ 23:07

  • Killerbee #66 7 months ago

    @Subdominator:

    Sony doesn't allow a full install of the game, only partial install

    Is this true? I thought Bayonetta was a full install (after the patch to sort out those loading issues) and the "bonus" games like Dead Space: Extraction and Medal of Honor: Frontline HD from EA were too. Also it'd be a bit weird to have one rule for retail-bought games and yet still offer full game downloads from the PSN Store.

    What's to say Sony won't just let Carmack have as much space as he wants for the inevitable mandatory install? Even if they put all the game data on the hard drive and let the Blu-ray just handle audio and FMV (if there is any) it's got to take up less space than putting every single byte on the hard disk.

    The 360 may still be the better version of the game on console - no one outside of id knows that yet - but I doubt the size of the HDD installation will have much to do with it.

  • IneptPercy #67 7 months ago

    Can whoever gave me a -1 for my comment above please let me know why (by PM if you wish).

  • stepleftstepright #68 7 months ago

    all I read:
    DVD or Bluray will suck.

    Best experience with the full installation option. Sony doesn't allow the full installation option.
    Overall data transfer rate on Bluray is faster than DVD, but there is a lot more data to pull from a Bluray disc than a DVD so the overall data transfer rate doesn't help Bluray any bit.

    In reality, installing anything off the blurry take 20~60+ minutes of my life so I will opt to go with 360 when the game gets released. So far my experience with PS3 has been constant struggle to remember that I need to turn PS3 every so often otherwise I risk weekend babysitting my PS3 with the latest updates and more updates.

  • Oskool #69 7 months ago

    Great talk by Carmack. I had no idea Rage was gonna use Mega Texture technology. Sounds sweet!

  • Darren #70 7 months ago

    People wondering if the PC version will have a larger install size than the 360 version are forgetting that those three DVDs on the latter will hold a lot of duplicate data to minimise disc swapping so the PC version could well be smaller, even with higher definition textures. Not that 20 GB installs are that big of an issue anyway on a system where 1 TB HDDs are the norm.

    The 360 versions sounds like it'll be fine so long as you have a hard drive with lots of space but I'm glad I'll be able to play the cheaper PC version without having to fret about disc swapping of any kind. :)

  • Zero_g #71 7 months ago

    My 360 doesn't feature a blu ray player, I must need the new xbox 360 ps3 edition!

  • geeza2020 #72 7 months ago

    its like consoles now have as many different set ups as PC's. This sucks ass.

  • craziii #73 6 months ago

    I watched the video showing off the different weapons and a few missions, I got it on pre order since :p

  • Marshall2008 #74 6 months ago

    Unless they have a special dispensation from Microsoft you will still need to swap discs while playing which is arse just like la noire.