What Devs Want from the Next Gen

By Eurogamer staff Published 4 August, 2011

Obsidian! Team Meat! Epic! Eric Chahi!

The next generation is coming. Microsoft is reportedly readying an E3 2012 announcement for its next Xbox. There are whispers Sony may announce the PlayStation 4 next year, too. And Crysis developer Crytek is rumoured to be creating TimeSplitters 4 using DirectX 11 as a visual benchmark. In short, the future is around the corner.

Amid the promise of Avatar-quality graphics and streaming technology, Eurogamer spoke to a number of game developers to find out exactly what they hope the next round of consoles will enable them to do, the unique challenges they will present - and what they're afraid of.

Dungeon Siege III lead designer Nathaniel Chapman, Obsidian

One thing that is tricky with the next gen, and is beginning to be tricky with this gen, is that [the platform holders] seem to be splitting and going in their own directions with features. You have Move, you have Kinect, the Wii, and Wii U now.

What we want when we make a game is for it to be as good an experience as possible for people and we want as many people as possible to be able to play it, so there are those competing pressures.

If you make a Kinect game it has to be Xbox exclusive. If you're using Kinect to its fullest there's no way you can make it a PS3 game. Same with the Wii U. You can't take a Wii U game that has a second screen and make it on... well I don't know what all the features of the next PlayStation and Xbox controllers are going to be, but I'm going to assume they don't have a screen on them.

1

Microsoft is rumoured to be preparing a 2012 next Xbox announcement.

It's going to be very tricky to make really great experiences for that which can be cross platform. It'll be an interesting challenge how devs adopt those features and, indeed, whether or not they do.

The thing that most holds me back right now is memory. The number one difficulty in making a console game is that the consoles, to varying degrees, have very restrictive memory, especially when you compare it to making PC games. I'll be happy if they double the memory - that would make my life a lot easier. It would make developing games a lot easier and would fix a lot of the problems that people have making games right now.

Super Meat Boy developer Edmund McMillen, Team Meat

Buttons. Buttons and game pads. Just give me my f***ing game pad back.

In the past so many years we've had so many different ways to control games. The Wii came and went and it had the motion-sensing thing. The only game that was really good was the game that was made by Nintendo for the system, that came with the system - Wii Sports.

Any game after that, and please anybody chime in and tell me the games that I'm missing here, because I've played a lot of Wii games and there's not one Wii game other than Wii Sports that actually uses these controls and makes the game fun because of it. And I assume that the next Zelda is going to be good. Those are going to be the two games for the system that are really spectacular and really use the controller in a way that's fulfilling.

2

What will Sony do next? Everyone expects the PlayStation 4.

When it comes down to it, if Nintendo is the only one that is able to come up with awesome ideas for the peripheral, then I really doubt anyone else is going to.

And the same goes for Kinect. That thing is a piece of garbage. There is absolutely nothing good for it. It's a joke. It's a f***ing joke. It doesn't make any f***ing sense. It's painful because they justify it by saying 'a lot of people bought it', but that's just marketing. I'm telling you, there's not going to be anything for it that's so compelling that 10 years from now you'll tell your friends 'wow, I really want to break out the Kinect and play this'. It's just not going to happen.

Gameplay is what matters. Good game design. It's almost as if they thought developers said 's**t, we've hit a wall and we can't design fun games anymore, and can't innovate through game design itself, we need all these crazy-ass peripherals that are going to help break through barriers and find new uncharted territory.' No, just f***ing sit down and come up with a new genre. Chris Hecker came up with a new genre - Spy Party - so I guarantee other people can too. Minecraft - a creative MMO. And Katamari too. We don't need peripherals.

Peripherals should stay as peripherals that you buy for Rock Band or something. Don't require someone to design for your crazy-ass experimental peripheral.

Epic Games senior technical artist and level designer Alan Willard

The content we generate for the current generation, we make very high polygon objects, and then we crunch those down into the game version of them. As we move to the ability to render those high polygon objects, it actually removes the step of having to go down to taking this really nice thing and making it look almost as good on something that is another object we have to build separately.

The closer we can get to building a single nice object and using it in the engine, it makes the workflow more efficient for the artists. If you look at some of the source art for Marcus Fenix, we have five million polygon versions of him that have every scar modelled and all of the detail, that we then process down to normal maps and render on a ten thousand polygon model. There's a certain point at which we're just utilising things we've already built. We're just utilising them more efficiently.

We're getting closer and closer with every generation of hardware to being able to just use those source objects, which will be great from the artists' point of view because they'll no longer be bound by quite the same restrictions. There will always be challenges we have to overcome and workflows we need to devise and learn how to use, but every step forward gives the artists more freedom in those respects.

Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes, Sword & Sworcery developer Nathan Vella, CEO of Capybara Games

Most of all we're hoping for consoles to beat Mode 7 and ratchet it up to Mode 8, and perhaps add way more layers of parallax scrolling.

Seriously though… One of the obvious ‘wishes’ a lot of devs are sure to list is more RAM, but for Capy that has extra importance. Since we’re working outside of the 3D norm - using hand-animated 2D HD visuals - our texture sheets take up a massive amount of video RAM. As crazy as it sounds, every game we’ve made to date on Xbox 360 or PS3 has had to be dialled back and cleverly hacked to pieces in order to fit into the max RAM allotment of those consoles. More RAM means more textures fitting in memory, which in turn means we can go even crazier with the 2D HD we love to make.

3

Most developers want more RAM from the next round of consoles.

As a developer whose future is directly linked to digital distribution, we’d love to see the consoles take a more serious and intense look at how the digital shopping experience can be bettered for console gamers. Steam and the iTunes App Store have shown the power well-designed stores have to drive sales - console manufacturers really must apply all the lessons these platforms have learned, plus more, to make finding and buying a game off a console a genuinely intuitive experience.

While XBLA and PSN sales numbers are great, they only represent a portion of people who own these consoles. On top of integrating a well-designed and easily searchable store right into the core user experience, console manufacturers really should spend the time (and money) to teach their gamers about their amazing service. Reaching out and attracting more console gamers to use the embedded stores provided on every platform would be a huge win for everyone - developer, publisher and console manufacturers alike.

We’d also love to see console manufacturers streamline the process of patching games, allowing developers to more quickly and more intuitively react (and interact) with their players. As it stands, the patching and updating process isn’t especially hard or especially bad, but if more power and control were to be given to the developers, the end result would be a much better experience for gamers.

Joonas Laakso, Producer at Bugbear on Ridge Racer Unbounded

I hope it's not coming yet. Bring on Wii U - we need an HD Wii, so that's fine - but we're still getting to grips with the PlayStation and finding new things to do with the Xbox. I do admit with the demand of the physics [in Ridge Racer Unbounded] we are hitting the limits of what we can do, pure processing wise, but with graphics it's good enough already, and I'm not at all convinced consumers are willing to shell out just for graphics alone.

I'm really hoping that we can do away with the physical media at some point - for me, that would be when I would welcome a new generation. Obviously I'd buy a PlayStation 4 and Xbox 720, but only because I have to!

In five years or whatever, I see a future where all of our media is going to be subscription-based, and I don't see anything wrong with that - bring it on! I'm a Spotify Premium user, and I couldn't have imagined doing that a year ago. I'm spending more money on music now than I was ever before, and it's not my problem how the music industry splits that - they should figure it out! I'm spending more money so everyone should be happy. Other content's going to go the same way - movies kind of already are, TV's in general already pretty much is, and games are going to be next.

Martin Edmonson, Reflections co-founder, currently working on Driver: San Francisco

4

Avatar-quality graphics are, supposedly, a genuine possibility.

If you're talking about the next generation of consoles - and nobody knows exactly when they're going to be - if you say we're coming into the twilight years of the current generation, surely, surely - please god! - there's got to be easy to use tools like there used to be in the old Sega Model 2 arcade boards, where you can build games very quickly without worrying about the technology.

Because we can't be doing this - we can't be building rendering and physics tech from the ground up any longer. I don't think we'll be doing that again - in fact, I'm sure we won't be doing it again. It's incredibly slow, incredibly expensive and time consuming and it's like reinventing the wheel with a slightly rounder wheel.

David Amor, executive director Relentless Software.

I want an anti-next generation machine, quite frankly. The worst possible thing that could happen to me and my work as a developer is a £300 piece of electronics is necessary to play my games. It's a huge barrier. I'm trying to make games for those 400 million people - those aren't people who are going to spend £300-£400 on a next generation console. The best possible thing that could happen, I hope, is someone will say, 'Well this is the next generation: it's £50, and it also streams Hulu and Showtime and those things as well, so people have sort of bought it by accident.' I'm not particularly interested in… an increase in polygons.

Dave Ranyard, SingStar game director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe

I just want a portal to entertainment. I want to make some great games and I'm not that bothered about what the box is, to be honest. I just want to make a great game and get them to people to play.

From Dust creator Eric Chahi

Oddly, I don’t have any specific demands. In fact, my philosophy is more about adapting to existing technology, because there is always a way to create something original. As long as it is simple for the developer to programme and easy for players to use!

Reporting by Fred Dutton, Martin Robinson, Robert Purchese and Wesley Yin-Poole.

Comments (106) Latest comment 10 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • drumbaby #1 10 months ago

    More power cap'n!

  • Martin #2 10 months ago

    Not suprised that McMillen isn't a fan of "exotic" controllers seeing that his most popular game requires extremely precise control.

  • cyber_nicco #3 10 months ago

    Just make everything faster, smaller, cooler, cheaper. Add a healthy dose of very fast RAM and some sort of storage (hard drive or maybe online storage), and we're good.

    I'm really looking for MORE of the same!

  • handsonhips101 #4 10 months ago

    Team meat speak the truth.

  • Gearskin #5 10 months ago

    The Team Meat guys have a serious stick up their arses.
    They should pull it out.

  • Notorious_LRO #6 10 months ago

    I don't care. I just want a console that let's the community make demoes and shit again. /old

  • StolenGlory #7 10 months ago

    "And the same goes for Kinect. That thing is a piece of garbage. There is absolutely nothing good for it. It's a joke. It's a f***ing joke. It doesn't make any f***ing sense. It's painful because they justify it by saying 'a lot of people bought it', but that's just marketing. I'm telling you, there's not going to be anything for it that's so compelling that 10 years from now you'll tell your friends 'wow, I really want to break out the Kinect and play this'. It's just not going to happen."

    Added to my Christmas card list.

  • thelatestmodel #8 10 months ago

    Go Team Meat!

  • Lunastra78 #9 10 months ago

    And Team Ninja will continue their quest to revolutionize boob physics.

  • darkmorgado #10 10 months ago

    I can never work out if Edmund McMillen is an elaborate troll or not. Every time he gives an interview he comes across as an obnoxious prick.

  • UncleLou #11 10 months ago

    The Team Meat guys have a serious stick up their arses.
    They should pull it out.

    Yeah, we want indie devs to use polite, platform-owner friendly marketing talk instead of having a strong opinion of their own.

  • Gojiratron #12 10 months ago

    I want hardware that won't fail after a year or 2.

  • superdelphinus #13 10 months ago

    iTunes is a well designed application?

  • TheDarkFurie #14 10 months ago

    David Amor, executive director Relentless Software
    I want an anti-next generation machine, quite frankly. The worst possible thing that could happen to me and my work as a developer is a £300 piece of electronics is necessary to play my games.

    Latest game is on iOS, renowned for being the operating system on the most expensive of the modern smartphones and tablets. Yeah, seems like a £600 piece of electronics is much more up his alley.

    Personally I want full backwards compatibility from the next generation. I'm not just talking about boxed games here as they're the least of my worries. I'm talking about DLC, Arcade and Network titles, Movies and Music bought through the console. Basically if I've bought something over the network I'll be going apeshit if I find out that I've only rented it for this generation for my money. There are some titles (Bastion and Borderlands spring to mind for different reasons here) that I'll be playing for generations to come and I don't want to have to buy a recycled version with 3D (or whatever is popular and buzzwordy at the time) graphics just to get the old experience I've already paid for again.
    Edited by TheDarkFurie at 04/08/11 @ 08:46

  • Shinetop #15 10 months ago

    And yet another indie game developer who feels a need to prove how edgy and non-mainstream they are by constantly saying "fuck" and slagging off non-indie devs.

    Honestly guys, the act is wearing thin. Just make decent games and stop worrying so much about maintaining your indie image.


    Yeah, we want indie devs to use polite, platform-owner friendly marketing talk instead of having a strong opinion of their own.

    No, we want them to express their own strong opinion without sounding like complete tools.
    Edited by Shinetop at 04/08/11 @ 08:45

  • UncleLou #16 10 months ago

    Quite obviously not what he means if you actually read what he says. Many people own a smartphone anyhow, so he can tap into that audience with a game.

  • UncleLou #17 10 months ago

    No, we want them to express their own strong opinion without sounding like complete tools.

    Couldn't care less if he uses swear words, surely you can see that he has a point in what he says? Very foolish to dismiss it just because you don't like how he says it.

  • bobfish09 #18 10 months ago

    RAM, lots of RAM! Like PC's please, 4GB minimum!

  • Svalbaard #19 10 months ago

    Edmund Mcmillen - agree with you entirely.

    In terms of console horse power - there is nothing that devs want from next gen that can't already be done on a PC. Apart from maybe a unified development environment. If anything I'd be guessing that a whole bunch of devs are concerned that as they can't even max out what they currently have to play with, what they hell are they going to do to shine in the next generation...

    In terms of what gaming actually needs - less grey and brown, less soul-less FPSs, less shovelware, more substance, less style. Less quantity, more quality.

  • OrgasmicMutton #20 10 months ago

    While I agreee with the thrust of McMillen's point that not many games made great used of the Wii Reomote I can chime in name at least one game series that utilised it well. The Boom Blox games. Genuinely don't think they would have been anywhere near as fun without motion controls.

  • TheDarkFurie #21 10 months ago

    Not really, Lou. The fact is that services are being added to consoles beyond the ability to play games. Can you even think of a current gen console that can only play games without some form of media or browsing included? More and more they're being positioned as something for the living room, an entertainment centre more than a gaming device. People will be buying these things or those reasons as much as the games come the next gen if the companies play their cards right, which makes me a little sad as an old school gamer and a little excited as a tech enthusiast. Basically the consoles will have as many incidental sales as the iOS devices do; they'll just be cheaper, sell more, and have gamers as their target audience rather than a secondary thought.

    He seems to think that those devices are cheap enough for everyone to get at £50, ignoring the fact they're only that price due to subsidies from a network out to make the consumer pay a price monthly for the phone. If smartphones were bought as consoles are then they'd be much more expensive. As someone who buys his phones SIM free, I know what I'm talking about here. The fact of the matter is that dropping a £50 price mark into his comment is saying that he expects consoles to have the same price as his chosen platform, ignoring the fact that £35 per month contracts with 24 month minimum terms are needed to pull that off. When consoles are bought that way he'll get his wish and I'll quit gaming.

  • siallen #22 10 months ago

    not bothered about the size of the console aslong as there is no mistakes like the rrod , more ram say at least 2gb and at least a 1.5 gb directx 11 graphic card and keep it under £400 with a game

  • Shinetop #23 10 months ago

    Couldn't care less if he uses swear words, surely you can see that he has a point in what he says? Very foolish to dismiss it just because you don't like how he says it.

    I'm not dismissing it. Why did you make that up? In fact, I said nothing about wether I agree with him or not. I just said that indies need to stop trying so hard to sound edgy in interviews.

  • Gearskin #24 10 months ago

    @Shinetop

    Precisely. Kinect clearly isn't shit. I don't own one, the content on it thus far doesn't interest me, but it's clearly not shit. Things like Dance Central are supposed to be aces.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #25 10 months ago

    I'm not sure if Team Meat are the best people to consult on the Next Generation, considering they make games that could be made to run on an Amiga.
    Edited by MENTAL1ST at 04/08/11 @ 10:15

  • MojoDex #26 10 months ago

    Edmund McMillen take a bow sir!

  • Shinetop #27 10 months ago

    Sad to see so little love for Chahi in the comments by the way. The guy actually comes across as the most level-headed and inspired of them all. We need more people like him in the industry.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #28 10 months ago

    iTunes is a well designed application?

    Well, it is on the devices. Roll on iOS 5 so we never have to use the desktop abomination again!

  • UncleLou #29 10 months ago

    I'm not dismissing it. Why did you make that up?

    You only commented on the form, not the content, and concluded with "Just make decent games and stop worrying so much about maintaining your indie image."

  • UncleLou #30 10 months ago

    When consoles are bought that way he'll get his wish and I'll quit gaming

    It's already pretty close - console hardware is subsidized by games. You don't have a subscription, granted, but you pay off your hardware with every game you buy. Which always strikes me as quite an unfair system, because the more games you buy, the more you essentially pay to the platform owner. But admittedly I am off-topic here now.

  • Dangerous_Dan #31 10 months ago

    Besides obviously increasing the hardware power. Improving the controller would be nice. I have no idea how exactly but keep it backwards compatible and at the same time enhance the precision how i control the game. I don't care if i wield a real life buckler and sword in my hand to play demon's souls - immersion comes for me by being able to project what i want onto my controlled avatar.

    I think the big step will be in character animations. Visuals are nice to enhance but they are not the creative problem - that technical evolution is coming along anyway (at least as long as we don't hit a physical barrier for enhancing the computing power per watt). But immersion requires control of the game or, but that train already departed - it seems, leave bigger chunks to the imagination of the player by not showing everything (e.g. Limbo). Option 2 is right now not viable since most of the population watched too much TV and did not read enough books or other things that require imaginative skills or are enhanced by it.

  • Notorious_LRO #32 10 months ago

    @Shinetop: If Eric Chahi manages to get Another World (and other Delphine Software titles) to PSN/XBLA he will get unlimited amounts of love from me and my friends.

  • Jolly_Armadillo #33 10 months ago

    More love for Edmund McMillen!

    Buttons is where it is at baby!

  • Mono_X #34 10 months ago

    Who cares what Devs think. It's what the consumers think that matters.

  • PinktotheLast #35 10 months ago

    I was a console manufacturer like Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo I would look at the iPad mirroring via Apple TV that's coming out in a couple of months and be very very worried.

  • pokota #36 10 months ago

    Yeah, I liked Eric Chahi's comments the best. Not to say the others don't have valid points, and there is nothing wrong with wanting more resources, but artists should always work with the limitations of the medium in mind from the start.

    That being said, I love the art in Capy games, and if more RAM can enhance that, then bring it on.

    Very interesting article, by the way. I like stuff like this.

  • Shinetop #37 10 months ago

    You only commented on the form, not the content, and concluded with "Just make decent games and stop worrying so much about maintaining your indie image."

    So not commenting on the content is dismissing the content? In what twisted reality does that make sense? And how does that last sentence in any way state that I disagree with him or dismiss what he's saying?

    Just admit you completely misunderstood what I said dude, don't embarrass yourself like that.

  • erp #38 10 months ago

    Team Meat were already heroes among men in my eyes due to the brilliance of Super Meat Boy. McMillen has just cemented this.

  • metalangel #39 10 months ago

    First, I agree with McMillen. Pissing away money on these ridiculous motion control systems to ensure we make games for fickle imbeciles isn't the future, or at least, it better fucking not be. Fuck! This shit is contagious.

    Secondly, what metalangel the gamer wants from the next gen:
    -no online fucking passes
    -if the physical medium has to go, at least give us mahoosive hard drives this time around!
    -a console able to render PROPER crowd scenes. Forget giving five pedestrians realistic nostril hair, I want 50 pedestrians who look like they do this generation. Likewise, I want a GTA where there's more than five cars visible at any one time, and where cars don't only appear with others in their 'group'.
    -fully definable controls in every game. Make this a requirement to have the game released.

  • TOSH9313 #40 10 months ago

    @Gearskin
    You'll have a serious stick up your arse if you say anything bad about Team Meat, they're exactly right, motion controllers are the biggest step back in gaming since Modern Warfare 2.

  • Shadders #41 10 months ago

    Why is this article accompanied by a screenshot from Halo Wars?

  • anthonypappa #42 10 months ago

    lol at the super meat boy guy.

    have to agree, peripherals are made for games. not the other way around. and what's worse is they didn't even seem to have an idea of new genres for kinect when they made it... other than the 'possibilities'.

    that guy the other day summed it up. 'i control netflix with my hand, and that's awesome'. yes. it sure is.

  • CamberGreber #43 10 months ago

    Anyone who has followed gaming news since the early 90s knows that its....
    .... More Ram More Ram More Ram More Ram that we need.

    More than half the development time and money on current gen games is spent on trying to fit large amounts data in very small amounts of ram.

  • edhe #44 10 months ago

    So.. more ram then?

    Maybe the neXbox will have a touchscreen where the chatpad is now, with a speaker & mic, that'd be nice, i think. Could get a 3.7" screen in there i think, 16:9 to map to the telly...

  • darm #45 10 months ago

    Opinion of Team Meat matches mine so much that I start thinking about playing SuperMeatBoy.

  • Roamer #46 10 months ago

    I don't think Apple's a problem for the console manufacturers. As long as they ship it with a gamepad, they'll be fine. Gamers will happily stick to what they know. If Kinect, Wii and Move becomes the norm, however, they may have a battle on their hands.

    I agree strongly that their digital stores need some refurbishment thought. And a bit more marketing. A few TV ads showing off a collection of XBLA games would help drive interest in the 360, methinks. I own more Arcade games than regular ones - and I usually enjoy them more. Gems like From Dust deserve to be played.

  • sonicyoda #47 10 months ago

    Chahi; keep doing your thing man. You don't make enough games. Also, you should all buy Another World Anniversary Edition on PC. It runs on anything and it's amazing.

  • UncleLou #48 10 months ago

    Just admit you completely misunderstood what I said dude, don't embarrass yourself like that.

    I think you may want to look up what "dismiss" means, then read your post again. Thanks.

  • SASking #49 10 months ago

    Too many articles on 'What dev's want?' a high proportion seem to say they don't want a new machine, or they don't want better graphics as they think they are good enough now, but in reality it is what the consumer wants that matters. They should ask what 'we' want and work around that. Me personally, I bought the 360 and PS3 the day they were released and I have just got rid of them both and built a PC as I'm totally bored of the consoles. Now I'm a happy gamer again. But seriously 6 year plus cycles are way too long imo, but they way things are going that aint going to change sadly.

  • fizzyfish #50 10 months ago

    "I'm not sure if Team Meat are the best people to consult on the Next Generation, considering they could make games that could be made to run on an Amiga."

    I imagine that if EG put the question to four companies like Epic, who routinely invest in producing epic blockbusters, then we would have got some very similar answers and a less insightful article as a result. I think it is worthwhile asking the opinion of a small indie developer whose games don't set out to stretch the hardware when you consider that modern consoles are as much about online services, digital distribution and experimentation with new peripherals and control schemes as they are about the graphics technology. I expect that smaller players in the industry, with less capital to work with, are much more likely to be interested in how they can leverage developments in these other areas when they can't afford to spend 6 months modelling a 5 million polygon player model.

  • bf #51 10 months ago

    Tech in all its glory but Joonas Laakso comment got me thinking about the lure of subscription services. If he is premium spotty and is now spending more money on music than ever before that means, going by Swedish prices, that he previously bought about seven albums a year. I've slowed down but in my music buying prime I kept a pace of 2-3 albums a month, that have since ebbed as there is less music I want to buy but I'm keeping more or less the same pace with games. If I where to subscribe to a gaming service that works like spotify that would mean significantly less money going from me to devs and I don't think they would like that. So I don't think we'll see many subscription based game services where you only pay a subscription fee and then have free use of the facilities, at least not for big titles. Games yes, services no.

  • waynenot #52 10 months ago

    Obsidian still haven't got to grips with the original Xbox if their output on that was anything to go by.

  • FogHeart #53 10 months ago

    I don't want to lose playing games of table tennis with my brother on Sports Champions. I don't want to lose pointing to the screen for games like RUSE, or Killzone 3. I bloody loved pulling off special moves with a sword in Red Steel 2, I felt Godlike. And the astonishing precision of Tumble rewards those with steady hands.

    I want more games with my 'peripheral', not fewer.

    As far as the next console goes, it looks like everyone wants to give the manufacturers a good shake and shout 'Stop skimping on the RAM!" as all three have been lambasted over it.

    I'm most looking forward to the idea that John Carmack outlined - take a portable device around, it acts as media player, phone, games machine etc - then plug it into a device at home that gives it extra power and you can play games, surf, and so on.

  • Subdominator #54 10 months ago

    Well, somebody's games won't be released on Xbox platforms no more. Guess who? But why ask them about the next gen in the first place? Team Meat has not exactly a great track record. They made a game that runs great on seven year old PCs. Nobody cares about Team Meats wishes for the next gen.

  • Pacmaninov #55 10 months ago

    @Shinetop
    'Indies need to stop...'

    Hungry people need a meal, sick people need medical care. You need indie devs to conform to your ideas of how they should present themselves in an interview

    Just saying

  • Liquidoodle #56 10 months ago

    Go McMillen :D Totally Agree!

    And for me, I want PhysX in consoles and more use of PhysX in games :)

  • Darren #57 10 months ago

    So developers want more memory, better graphics and less Kinect/Move?

    Hey, I'm all for that! Make it so! :)

  • evild_edd #58 10 months ago

    <a href="http://www.fanboy.com/2009/04/retro-nintendo-controller.html">NEXT GEN CONTROLLER PLEASE!!!</a href>

    And yes, you can shove your analogue sticks where the sun don't shine - eveything since the D-Pad has been a gimmick
    Edited by evild_edd at 04/08/11 @ 10:53

  • asphaltcowboy #59 10 months ago

    Avatar-quality graphics are NOT a genuine possibility. Just so you know.

    Anyway, what does that even mean?

  • Mister-Wario #60 10 months ago

    "The only game that was really good was the game that was made by Nintendo for the system, that came with the system - Wii Sports".

    You REALLY can't have played many Wii games. Zack and Wiki, Boom Blox, Metroid Prime, Red Steel 2 and Tiger Woods are all good games and immeasurably improved by the Wii, even if they only use pointer controls. Motion controls don't work for every game but to be honest that's true of any control scheme. And I really don't want to abandon a source of potentially interesting gameplay even if it is largely mired in gimmickry.
    Edited by Mister-Wario at 04/08/11 @ 11:15

  • Max_Powers #61 10 months ago

    Edmund Mc Millen speaks the truth

  • joelstinton #62 10 months ago

    Nathaniel Chapman makes some valid points. With all the big three pursing their own identity, oh you got kinect, we got move, they going to have a screen in there controller. It really going to fracture the gaming market, and force developers down tight corridors with little room to move. With rising costs, production, developing tools, distribution, developers will want there product on as many consoles as possible.

    It's a fine balance to have, the innovation this generation as been in abdundance for better or worse. How do you make gaming less sterile at times? Fogheart makes some great points, that this tech can work and creates some fun experience. But.. at what point will sony and microsoft, and even nintendo, realise essentially between there machines there is nothing. The ps3/360 is almost an equal to having panasonic, or toshiba game players. Bar five odd exclusives, and two control input devices. When will the big three swallow some pride and work together to produce a standardise system ? And reach every house hold on the planet. The PC pratically does that, but in a clunky, stuck in the corner of your living room way.

    People will look at the next generation with more scrunity. There is a new market. And i don't think they will rush out to all buy a ps4 when it arrives. People outbrought the wii over the power horses of the 360/PS3. They had fun with it. The graphics won't jump massively like they did with ps1-ps2-ps3 and thus i don't think people will see the next gen consoles as a massive leap forward in gaming. They might not think that it will massively improve there gaming experience. And are people aside from the core gamers, going to shell out for more consoles.

    I wouldn't be surprisied in 5 years, that one of the big three are just now making games. And i think apple will have a huge share of the market as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the big three jumps into bed with the other and produces something together. Cut the costs in half for each company, produce some console together, use each other experiences, and rake in the cash. Sorry just entering the realms of fantasy now! All very interesting questions, that i'm sure each company have asked.
    Edited by joelstinton at 04/08/11 @ 11:13

  • chrisjm #63 10 months ago

    Giant crabs?

  • coomber #64 10 months ago

    Edmund McMillen is my hero.

  • Schmoke-n-a-pancake #65 10 months ago

    Edmund McMillen is completely oblivious to the bigger picture. I'd love to see how long his console would last in the market place. F**king hippy.

  • Ryze #66 10 months ago

    8GB RAM.
    USB 3.
    12X BD-ROM.

  • orangpelupa #67 10 months ago

    ah will be good if consoles have sandbox mode where user is allowed to create games and the tools also already given.

  • orangpelupa #68 10 months ago

    @team meat

    indie dev right?
    try put kinect to PC. if you love tinkering, or just messing around with tech. it is really fun and open to many creative, new ideas.

  • orangpelupa #69 10 months ago

    @team meat

    indie dev right?
    try put kinect to PC. if you love tinkering, or just messing around with tech. it is really fun and open to many creative, new ideas.

  • spekkeh #70 10 months ago

    People on the last page seem to me the most sensible ones. Most of the others are just marketing their own stuff/games.

  • ATNR1 #71 10 months ago

    "I'm really hoping that we can do away with the physical media at some point"

    I really hope that doesn't happen any time soon. And certainly not in 5 years. I live in South Africa where that kinda thing just isn't a possibility right now. Our broadband is ridiculously expensive and as some of you might know, we not the richest country in the world. For the larger market of gamers in South Africa psychical media is the only option. I have a broadband connection but due to caps I cannot even download games from PSN or Xbox Live without exhausting it in two downloads. I lost out on the free games Welcome Back package because of it. Think of the rest of the world before you make such ridiculous statements.

  • dsmx #72 10 months ago

    I get the feeling that most devs would be happy with the next gen consoles simply staying the same with more RAM and a faster drive.

  • FireMonkey #73 10 months ago

    Joonas Laakso - "I see a future where all of our media is going to be subscription-based, and I don't see anything wrong with that - bring it on! I'm a Spotify Premium user, and I couldn't have imagined doing that a year ago. I'm spending more money on music now than I was ever before"

    Noooo!!!!! I hate subscription models. I want to buy a game and have the game not keep paying for it. How would a single player game story based game or a puzzle game really work subscription based anyway? It'd be shit. He says he's spending more money on music now. That's fine forMr Moneybags there, but what about those of us who can't afford (or don't want) to spend more money than we currently do?

  • silver-jon #74 10 months ago

    @joelstinton - good work. Really liked your comment.
    We on the EG forum are passionate consumers (broadly speaking) because gaming is our hobby. So it's easy to forget sometimes that M$, $ony and Ninty are businesses. They have commercial pressures and shareholders' expectations to meet, and competition - not only from each other (and I'd add Apple into the mix in anticipation of a proper announcement about their intentions) but from outside the traditional console market (eg: smartphone gaming and other media).What they want to do is capture as much of the public's attention and desire as possible. As many people from all sections of life playing as many different types of game on their device, and accessing media via their device. As the PS3 adverts remind us "The game is just the beginning". In other words, it's not just a gaming platform. In a word: convergence.

    Consequently I would imagine they will continue pursuing that generic all-rounder profile; perhaps doing more to enhance the networking/download experience. Frankly I'm amazed that MS still charge £35 for a Gold membership in Live. Early adopters have come and gone. The Live experience should now be aiming at mass-market and to do that they should be lowering or scrapping the price. Does it cost any money to join iTunes ?

    Thirdly, I'd point to the way innovation risks fracturing the market and how that might force devs to align to a particular console. It's a tough commercial market out there, and they can't afford the luxury of triple the dev teams just to rebuild a game concept virtually from scratch so it makes the most of each manufacturer's machine spec and gimmickry. In order to meet consumers' high expectations of a great gaming experience (and therefore shift millions of units), they'll have to focus on one console.

    In spite of what I say about innovation and fracturing, as a gamer/consumer I would like to see a somewhat standard system. Yes, greater processing power from a beefier graphics card. Yes, more memory, better physics and (in FPSs) better AI. More large-crowds and granular worlds. Greater integration with other entertainment media, and a much more accessible online experience. All that in a system which is both forward amd backward compatible so investment in non-physical media is not lost. Not asking much, eh ?

    Personally, I think I'd like to see more investment in understanding the psychology of the gaming experience. Make access to worlds that are immersive and inspiring. Allow us to explore and feel truly part of the game. A really large 3D screen (say, 6 feet across) and a highly refined Kinect, with surround sound.
    I'm just going to buy a lottery ticket.

  • Lemming81 #75 10 months ago

    Did anyone else feel vaguely uncomfortable that a picture of Master Chief was used on this article about what devs want for next gen? an endless stream of sequels is not what I envision, to be honest.

  • 32768Colours #76 10 months ago

    In five years or whatever, I see a future where all of our media is going to be subscription-based, and I don't see anything wrong with that - bring it on! I'm a Spotify Premium user, and I couldn't have imagined doing that a year ago. I'm spending more money on music now than I was ever before,

    Exactly, that's the problem! You're spending more on music because you're renting it indefinitely. If I don't buy a CD for a month or two its costing me nothing to listen to what I already own, but with subscription services, I'm paying for music even when I'm not listening to it.

    Still, at least I have unlimited access to thousands of tracks for a tenner a month. Would the same be said for a subscription to a gaming service? Would the games industry be happy to let me play thousands of games from the latest chart hits to 30 year old classics for a single monthly fee? Unless the fee was about £250 a month, I think we all know the answer to that one.

    An entirely digital future may well be inevitable, but its not just being old-fashioned that makes me wish it wasn't. In fact, I rue the day that the traditional creative industries finally got to grips with online commerce, as they've done nothing but find ways of squeezing every last penny out of consumers ever since. If that's the future of consoles, it won't be the RAM, GPU or controller that informs my buying decision, it'll be which console has the least draconian distribution methods.

  • Retro_ #77 10 months ago

    A rounder wheel, now that is a good idea!

  • Retro_ #78 10 months ago

    PS4 should have the PowerXCell 8i Broadband Engine CPU plus a shit load of super fast RAM plus a kicking GPU. Holy Crap, it would be super powerful and be BC with PS3...... probably!

  • Xardan #79 10 months ago

    The only thing i know is we are all going to be disappointed.

  • bratmandu #80 10 months ago

    The Meat Boy guy is right, the From Dust guy is zen.

  • JamieR #81 10 months ago

    I want the next gen to not have the 720 red spiral ring of death

  • onyxbox #82 10 months ago

    "What Devs Want from the Next Gen"

    That's easy... more money of course ;)

  • KopparbergDave #83 10 months ago

    More ram. It's what everyone wants, it becomes ridiculously cheap a year or two into the life cycle, yet they ALWAYS pull back how much ram they put in consoles just prior to release on cost grounds. So short sighted.

    I also like what Vella guy says about them needing to improve how gamers find and buy games on their consoles. Neither the Xbox or PS3 is particularly good in this regard (the Wii I've never used this feature). They need to make bringing games to a platform far less restrictive and cheaper. There's plenty of games on the iPhone that are better than some of the dubious XBLA games, at a fraction of the cost and far easier to stumble across than on the Xbox. They're losing sales.

  • SASking #84 10 months ago

    @ATNR1 Sorry to sound rude and ignorant, but the technology world can't wait around for the less developed countries to catch up. Progress would never be made if that was the case. Sorry if this has offended you.

  • jefranklin18 #85 10 months ago

    I think it is theoretically possible that the next gen could be a licensing model: viz if Sony decide they're not going to be able to make the returns on hardware they want, they could license out the chipset for say Toshiba. Such a precedent already exists as back in the '80s the MSX computer was doing the rounds. It however was hampered by not being competitive compared to the Sinclairs and Commodores of the time.

  • intpleeus #86 10 months ago

    I hope they don't get rid of physical storage.

    I live out in the middle of nowhere, and I have to use a satellite for my internet connection. It's quite a restrictive service. I can't really use it for Xbox Live (except to download patches and maybe some DLC on occasion). A streaming or download only service would effectively force me to stop gaming and do something useful with my life -- nobody wants that!

  • PierrePressure #87 10 months ago

    Why is RAM always an issue? Why don't Sony etc, just include more?

    Explain very slowly and in a simple manner so I can understand :)

  • Uncompetative #88 10 months ago

    Xbox 1080

    You know, because it is 1080p HD @ 60 FPS in every game.

    Just don't expect 3D. It is a nauseating gimmick.

  • ATNR1 #89 10 months ago

    SASKing

    Nope you didn't offend me, and I agree. My point is just that damn my country sucks, please don't cut me off from my favourite hobby. Give us at least a little more time.

    Uncapped broadband is available in South Africa right now, but due to a monopolistic Telephone company it doesn't come cheap. I can afford it, but I refuse to support a monopoly that is partly government owned. That's why I opted for a 3G connection. Which isn't the best for online gaming, but hey its better than nothing.
    Edited by ATNR1 at 04/08/11 @ 16:20

  • Hindle #90 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 23:04:43 04-04-2012

  • MaxFN #91 10 months ago

    Eric Chahi is right.

  • SASking #92 10 months ago

    @ANTR1 I do understand your position, I was in the same kinda boat when all my mates had broadband but my estate was the only one which didn't. So I had to miss out playing online games. I did have internet but it was 56k and an average ping of 600 which made it unplayable.

    By the time the next gen consoles come out there will be 4G internet, which can theoretically handle 1gb download speeds :) so you'll be fine.

  • Scimarad #93 10 months ago

    That Team Meat opinion was very entertaining and absolutely spot on.

  • Lin #94 10 months ago

    @Notorious_LRO "I just want a console that let's the community make demoes and shit again."

    So basically, what you want is a PC?

    How about next gen we just get decent PCs for comparable prices, plug them into the TV, plug in some game pads, and do everything we can do with consoles and more.

    The devs will then just have to make everything for the PC, microsoft won't be able to dictate launches, there'll be no proprietary exclusives, we'll be able to make all the mods and demos we like, we'll only need one machine, and we'll only have to pay £30 a game instead of £50.

  • DrStrangelove #95 10 months ago

    Listen to the wisdom of the stars-talking man. Please Microsoft and Sony, listen to him.

  • mjhoward #96 10 months ago

    What I want is for games to run at 60FPS as standard at actual HD resolutions. Not sub-hd upscaled.

  • captain-future #97 10 months ago

    Every guy who didn't say LOTS OF MORE RAM (with a side of even more RAM) is stoopid. Especially the Kinect hating dude.

  • LotsOfFunWiiGames #98 10 months ago

    Lol. Pathetic Wii/Nintendo hating. Maybe you only had fun with two games, but that's honestly hard to believe, and it's definitely dumb to assume thats the case in a general sense. There are tons of games I had more fun with because of motion controls. No More Heroes was more fun because of the motion controls, imo. I prefer motion controls in FPS over dual analog, they have made the genre more fun for me due to the more precise controls, and melee and throwing grenades with motion feels great. Silent Hill Shattered Memories was fun for me, having to shake in the right direction to throw the creatures off me. Motion Controls for Tiger Woods Golf and Frisbee golf? I think F'n so! Which reminds me, you seem to have forgot about Sports Resort, which improves on the original ten-fold. Madworld's combat was very satisfying due to motion controls for me. Hell, the original Cooking Mama is a blast to me due to the realistic motions you have to make to cook.

    I could really go on with a pretty big list, but I know nothing is going to change your opinion, you already seem set to believe what you do, I'm sure you'd have an excuse for any game listed, so, my main point is just to let you know there are people out there that actually enjoyed the Wii and the motion controls it offered. No doubt Zelda is going to be the swan song of Wii and motion controls, but I enjoyed tons of motion controlled Wii games for the last 4-5 years, from Nintendo and Third-Parties, but I'm extremely happy to see Wii U is continuing on with Motion Plus controllers as there is definitely so much more potential there and I can't wait. Motion controls are here to stay, F the haters, imo.
    Edited by LotsOfFunWiiGames at 04/08/11 @ 21:54

  • Notorious_LRO #99 10 months ago

    @Lin Re: Why not just buy a PC If I want demos?

    There is something appealing to the thought of having a stable platform with hardware that is equal across the board, but also totally open to the community for demoscene action. The reason the PC demo scene never got anywhere near as huge as the Amiga scene, was the fact that everybody could not see what the group had in mind - what with everyone having different gfx cards and whatnot.

    Things just got too splintered, and the inherented competitivenes with regards to who could squeeze the most out of the hardware just was not there since nobody had the same toys to play with. That said, I probably just want to time travel Napoleon Dynamite style back to the Amiga days.

  • 32768Colours #100 10 months ago

    Regarding the RAM issue, I'd add that the problem of a lack of RAM in consoles will be ever-present. While a new generation console will give developers reasonable parity to PCs in the short term, toward the end of a console's lifecycle the developers will again be crying out for more RAM.

    To be honest, it's a fair point that consoles seem to forgo perhaps more RAM than they should. Even so, I think its unrealistic to expect console manufacturers to provide enough processing power to future proof their hardware for an entire lifecycle.

    The only thing I really want to see the back of is screen-tearing. I'm pretty sure I never experienced that phenomenon prior to this generation, and for me at least, its easily the most annoying issue of the 'HD' consoles.

  • grussbarbar #101 10 months ago

    Very much agree@LotsOfFunWiiGames

    I've had a lot of fun with a lot of Wii games too, and I do feel motion or pointer control added to the fun instead of detracting from it. Pointer control is fast and extremely accurate (if you relax and rest your forearm on your leg) and lightyears beyond dual analog control in FPS games. The Conduit, Red Steel 2 and House of the Dead: Overkill were great. And motion control can feel very right when done correctly (that is, if it's not added just for the sake of having motion). Shaking off the creatures in Shatterred Hill was definitely nice. The swordplay in Red Steel 2 feels badass. Pulling levers in Tomb Raider Anniversary felt very good. And that's not even counting all the sports games (in my case, mainly Tiger Woods).

    Also (I don't really know how to say this clearly, but I'll try:) I feel that it's not completely fair to judge the Wii remote controller just on the quality of motion controls in games. A controller has to enable us to play games well. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only requirement for a good controller. That means that I don't need to have good motion controls in a Wii game to enjoy playing it. For instance, Super Mario Galaxy had very little motion control. Does that make the Wii remote a bad controller? Of course not!
    If you think about it, the Wii remote + Nunchuk controller is nothing but a gamepad divided into two parts. (Of course, it misses a second analog stick. But it also adds the freedom for your hands to be where you want them to be, in a relaxed position across your lap for instance.)
    What I mean is, you can have great games with the Wii remote even if you don't add motion control. Team Meat's shoutout for a return from the Wiimote to an old gamepad is unnecessary, I believe.

    (I haven't tried Kinect yet, so I can't comment on that, although I expect I would miss buttons very much in a lot of Kinect games.)

  • Ahskay #102 10 months ago

    Go Team Mea - yay but Bugbear, GTFO with your subscription based future. Not everybody swims in money and is willing to pay 70 EUR for a digital retail game. Not even starting on the silly internet things so you can't play games when offline.

  • SaberEdge #103 10 months ago

    Mas RAM, por favor.

  • NeoTechni #104 10 months ago

    "Same with the Wii U. You can't take a Wii U game that has a second screen and make it on... well I don't know what all the features of the next PlayStation and Xbox controllers are going to be, but I'm going to assume they don't have a screen on them. "

    V can do everything U can do.
    Once they add the WiiU tablet functionality, it wouldn't take much more to port it them Vita

    "On top of integrating a well-designed and easily searchable store right into the core user experience, console manufacturers really should spend the time (and money) to teach their gamers about their amazing service."

    Um, PS3 and 360 have their stores plastered all over their UIs. PS3 has a ticker you cant get away from.

    "I'll be happy if they double the memory"

    Just double? There are phones with 1 GB of RAM. One of my UMPCs do. My non-gaming PC has 2 GB. One of my friends has 12 GB in her PC.

    "I'm really hoping that we can do away with the physical media at some point "

    Not even remotely possible.

    "I want an anti-next generation machine, quite frankly."

    That'd be WiiU

    "Not suprised that McMillen isn't a fan of "exotic" controllers seeing that his most popular game requires extremely precise control. "

    The exotic controllers are worse for that
    Edited by NeoTechni at 07/08/11 @ 01:16

  • Ioanides #105 10 months ago

    OMG, no new consoles please! Just new and awesome software for the boxes we have already! I'm so fed up with this console cycle - as player and developer alike @$%^#
    What we need is better services and software, I'm not buying any other 300 bucks box, that's for sure.

    I'm stupefied how they can even consider launching new consoles in a world plunging in another recession and with dev costs which are already sky-high. This will f*** kill the industry.

  • elvenearth #106 10 months ago

    Avatar quality cinematics maybe. Avatar quality anything else - no frigging way!