Blowing Bubbles

Mobile and social gaming are in a huge valuation bubble - but that doesn't have to mean that disaster is coming.

Published as part of our sister-site GamesIndustry.biz's widely-read weekly newsletter, the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial, is a weekly dissection of an issue weighing on the minds of the people at the top of the games business. It appears on Eurogamer after it goes out to GI.biz newsletter subscribers.

By any standards, PopCap is a remarkable company. Of the many new games companies to emerge from the new social and mobile gaming scene, it's one of the only ones which manages to sustain a delicate and difficult balancing act - appealing to an enormous swathe of the mainstream, casual market while still commanding significant respect from core gamers.

In the past decade, the company has proved its ability not only to keenly and intelligently exploit its flagship franchise - Bejeweled - but also to generate new IP that's just as compelling as that original break-out hit, including Peggle, Plants Vs. Zombies and Zuma. Moreover, it seemingly effortlessly straddles the mobile and social gaming sectors, just as comfortable providing apps to iPhone users, coffee-break entertainment to Facebook users and downloadable titles on Steam for more dedicated gamers.

There's absolutely no question that PopCap is a great games company. However, if this week's rumours turn out to be correct, and the company sells for $1 billion, it will be the final confirmation of something that's been whispered for a while now - that social and mobile gaming, along with the "social internet" in general, has become a bubble market.

Finnish firm Rovio took in $42 million in a funding round which even the investors admitted the company didn't actually need.

In the past year, company valuations in this sector have soared, and some truly eye-watering deals have gone through. Last October, Japanese mobile gaming giant DeNA paid out up to $400 million for iOS game developer ngmoco - another great company with fantastic products whose price tag raised plenty of eyebrows. Not to be outdone, DeNA's local rival GREE dropped over $100 million in cash on OpenFeint - creators of a social gaming platform for iPhone and Android.

In the west, EA paid $300 million for PlayFish last year, while Disney paid $760 million for Playdom, and has been aggressively restructuring its entire games business around the social gaming model - with mixed results.

Those are just samples of the deals we know about, because they were made in public. The biggest fish in the pond, Zynga, bears a price tag as high as $10 billion according to some valuations. It's not just in acquisitions that the figures are getting breath-takingly high, either - venture capitalists seem to have caught the fever too. Back in March, Finnish firm Rovio - a developer with only one hit to its name, even if that hit is the seemingly ubiquitous Angry Birds - took in $42 million in a funding round which even the investors admitted the company didn't actually need.

It's not just games, of course. In the wider world of the social internet, analysts mostly seemed to come around to the idea that we had entered a bubble market when Color Labs raised $41 million in first-round funding for an iPhone application which not only hadn't yet been written, but which nobody even seemed to be able to explain without resorting to buzzword-laden drivel. That's even before we start to consider the valuation of a company like Twitter - whose service is wonderful, but whose long-term plan for making money seems almost as confused and optimistic as the worst of the dot.com era hopefuls.

Yet even if the wider bubble in the social internet allows us to place the money flying around the social and mobile gaming sector into a logical context, it doesn't do anything to defuse the potential damage of an implosion. What happens when a bubble bursts in a market like this? That's predictable enough - purchasers are left holding an asset that's not worth what they paid for it, and potentially laden with debt which they took on to pay for that asset, while everyone else finds that funding dries up as investors take flight.

So who is exposed to this kind of risk? Electronic Arts, as mentioned, has a $300 million investment in PlayFish. It's no stranger to large acquisitions in this space - it paid out $680 million for mobile publisher JAMDAT back in 2005, although that's not a deal it may particularly want to be reminded of, given that it later had to knock around 50% off its valuation of the asset. Crucially, EA is also linked to the billion-dollar PopCap deal that's said to be on the table, although it's hard to say how credible that is. EA's financial position wouldn't allow it to make an acquisition on that scale easily - it could be done, of course, but it will be an immense risk for the company to swallow.

Disney has committed itself even more heavily to the space than EA, but its Playdom acquisition has been criticised on many fronts for under performing - and although the company has redoubled its commitment to a future in the social games space, it's yet to turn that commitment into any kind of leadership position. However, Disney actually isn't terribly exposed to a social gaming "bubble"; it may have paid above the odds for its investments, but it's an enormous company which can afford to swallow those losses, and the investment bubble shouldn't disguise the fact that social gaming itself is still a market with growing audience and revenues, one which a firm like Disney can ill-afford to ignore.

Whoever ends up buying PopCap will own a social gaming developer whose success is almost unrivalled and whose skills and experience can potentially unlock vast swathes of the marketplace.

Beyond those two firms, others do have significant involvement in mobile gaming - Ubisoft, through GameLoft, being a great example - but have mostly avoided getting caught up in the bubble. Indeed, GameLoft CFO Alexandre de Rochefort was one of the main voices to warn of this emerging situation, earlier this year.

Instead, the investment has come heavily from VCs, and from Asia - and sometimes from both. Asian companies, both Chinese and Japanese, are very keen to invest in this market, and the Japanese firms in particular have been both spurred by the need to keep abreast of the smartphone growth that's displacing the huge "featurephone" market in their native territory, and emboldened by the historic strength of the Yen which allows overseas acquisitions to be made on the cheap, at least relatively speaking.

What happens to those companies when the confidence leaks out of the market and the bubble collapses? It's therein, I think, that the really interesting question about what this bubble actually means to the games industry starts to find some answers.

Nobody - be they a corporation or a private individual - wants to end up holding an asset that's worth far less than they paid for it, but that doesn't tell the entire story. As mentioned above, the ludicrous prices flying around in this sector disguise an underlying story that's arguably much more important - a story of immense growth in both audience and revenue, growth which doesn't justify those prices but which does certainly justify much of the interest being taken in this market.

For companies in Asia seeking to build their presence in the West, or for Western media firms determined to stay on top of developments in their sector, one could argue that social and mobile gaming acquisitions aren't really an "investment" in sense of asset growth. Yes, it would be lovely to buy an asset and watch its value swell on your balance sheet - but what's more important to these firms is to buy into a market, expanding their global or demographic presence and, crucially, denying their rivals an opportunity to do likewise.

Even once the bubble bursts, DeNA - to pick an example - will own a leading mobile developer with fantastic insight and experience in the western market. Whoever ends up buying PopCap will own a social gaming developer whose success is almost unrivalled and whose skills and experience can potentially unlock vast swathes of the marketplace. Their asset values may implode, and the markets aren't likely to like that very much, but the core reasons for the acquisitions will remain.

In other words, if you've got the money to buy, and if your business strategy requires or benefits from this kind of acquisition - then the bubble in the mobile and social markets only matters to you because it'll make it harder to make back the money you spend, but you're in this for the long term and the acquisition may still make sense. Where it matters more is to those companies and investors who are just hopping on the bandwagon because everyone else is doing it, throwing millions at companies with little IP to their name or incredibly risky business plans. Moreover, it definitely matters to companies who really don't have the money for this kind of investment, and will seriously suffer if its value collapses.

A bubble market is by no means a good thing, but equally, it's not a sign that everyone should cower and wait for the sky to fall. It simply means that companies need to be much more wary about their investments, and accept that the gambling stakes are much, much higher than usual. Mobile and social gaming is here to stay - but these valuations are not. If calm heads prevail, we can at least hope that none of the games business' great names get dragged down when the madness eventually ends.

If you work in the games industry and want more views, and up-to-date news relevant to your business, read our sister website GamesIndustry.biz, where you can find this weekly editorial column as soon as it is posted.

Comments (59) Latest comment 11 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • CaptainQuint #1 11 months ago

    He loves a good doom mongering on a Saturday morning this Fahey bloke, doesn't he. It's the same thing rewritten every weekend.

  • KDR_11k #2 11 months ago

    Well it would be funny to get yet another recession kicked off, eh?
  • KingOfMyCastle #3 11 months ago

    "So who is exposed to this kind of risk?"

    Ultimately, the tax payer.
    Edited by KingOfMyCastle at 25/06/11 @ 09:58
  • ZachForrest #4 11 months ago

    Given these are private investors, for the most part, them over valuing companies is not really that big a deal. The market at large would price them significantly lower i reckon.

    I really question the wisdom of investing so aggressively in companies who's increasing revenue largely depends on them regularly releasing more and more popular games. Banking on their creativity, rather than fundamentals seems a bad strat.
  • coolbritannia #5 11 months ago

    Morning cunts!

    Yes, this is the same shit every week. And this one is particularly cringe worthy, given it's just an article about social networks with [game company here] inserted instead of facebook, myspace etc.

    Join us next week for another episode of State The Obvious!

    /Spartacunt

    Edited by coolbritannia at 25/06/11 @ 11:14
  • HurbleBurble #6 11 months ago

    I was expecting an article about Michael Jackson's penchant for beastialiity.

    EG: I am disappoint.
  • metalangel #7 11 months ago

    The future of gaming is unlikely to be shovelware crap aimed at the battered spouses of entitled white cunts. Casual stuff can be fun but it's rare you'd want to spend hours on it. I can't help but wonder how long the likes of Farmville and such can go on, especially with the shine going off Arsebook as millions have gotten bored and deactivated their accounts (as per a recent article in the Torygraph)
  • UsernamePending #8 11 months ago

    Is this article supposed to make sense?

    Surely these re-hashed pieces are only a bad advertisement for gamesindustry.biz.
  • Daeltaja #9 11 months ago

    Interesting article, nice read on a Saturday morning in work.

    Agree with a lot of what you said, Rob. Crazy, crazy money being thrown around at the moment. These social gaming companies are being way over-evaluated. I understand that companies are getting all panicky thinking they're missing out on a piece of the social pie, but I doubt they fully understand the risk involved, considering the stupid money they're tossing about.

    The bubble will burst alright, and whilst social and casual gaming will be around for as long as the medium is, it will be the core that companies will turn back to eventually.
  • Lexx87 #10 11 months ago

    You lot are a moany bunch of cunts sometimes.

    This was an interesting article, written in a way which lets me understand what is going on without any babble I wouldn't understand.
  • CaptainQuint #11 11 months ago

    "Blowing Bubbles"

    Yes Rob, you are.
  • Sharzam #12 11 months ago

    Can we please stop with the moaning and personal attacks on people. Whether you like Rob Fahay is not the point, is is simpley a feature article do you write to every newspaper and every magazine when they run a feature on something you have no intreast in or do not agree with.

    Regards to the article, i can see the bubble being a problem with many organisations not just gaming as mentioned in the article twitter is a perfect example of this but there are others where they are just eating venture capital. We run a real risk of vauling companys that have not made any money, the same thing happended a decade ago and can happen again.
    Edited by Sharzam at 25/06/11 @ 12:53
  • coolbritannia #13 11 months ago

    @Sharzam, respectfully disagree. The guy slated the readership, refused to apologise, and his writing is sub par. It's a toxic combination for comments threads.
  • Sharzam #14 11 months ago

    That is a fair point, slating the readership is not professional thing to do. However you just have to look at half the comments here to see he might of had a point. Do you think that constanly slagging off and insulting for months after the event is the conduct of reasoned people?

    Also i very much doubt it was a personal attack but rather talking about attitudes of some in the community. Anyway lets get back on topic of the article that is meant to be discussed here.

    edit: I am not calling anyone anything or insulting anyone, just simpley saying that insulting someone because they insulted you with no reasoning or logic, just simpley because you want to hardly prooves you are 'better' than them.
    Edited by Sharzam at 25/06/11 @ 15:10
  • Jonny5Alive7 #15 11 months ago

    Another article about social gaming, we've heard it all before! I don't mind reading about it if its going to be a different view on it, but its not is it?
  • Gastrian #16 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • coolbritannia #17 11 months ago

    @Sharzam, are you calling anyone who disagrees with Rob cunts?
  • Zaiz #18 11 months ago

    The months of whining about Rob Fahey were funny initially but now its just sad for how long people have clung to this. Like you've got nothing better to be outraged about.
  • coolbritannia #19 11 months ago

    Well since I spanked my woman on the ass and was imprisoned for domestic violence, there's just nothing much to do in my life.
  • jablonski #20 11 months ago

    @Lexx87

    "You lot are a moany bunch of cunts sometimes.
    This was an interesting article, written in a way which lets me understand what is going on without any babble I wouldn't understand."

    If I was the guy from "TWINS" who just got to the mainland and read this, yes, I'd agree it let me know what was going on.

    But seeing as I actually read papers and have a passing interest in games enough to make me visit this site, then this article has zero to offer me in the way of insight or insider-knowledge.

    It's the same reheated word-count every week.
  • coolbritannia #21 11 months ago

    Hmm, good point. Aren't the crowd at GI.Biz a lot more savvy than the EG crowd overall?

    I mean if we're slating this as overly simplistic and obvious, what do they think?
  • Murton #22 11 months ago

    "Of the many new games companies to emerge from the new social and mobile gaming scene"

    Didn't even get out of the first paragraph to make his first factual blunder this week. PopCap are hardly a new company and they aren't a part of the "new social and mobile gaming scene" either, they're above the scene. They were making these games before they were cool or successful, if anything PopCap are one of the new companies to emerge from the boom in household computer ownership in the late 90s/early 00s, go back to that era and computers in PC World had Bejewelled on their store demo, whereas previously they had the windows games solitaire or freecell.

    I know it might make me sound like I'm jumping on the Fahey bandwagon, but in the same way that I associate Rob Purchese with deliberate mis-representation or outright mis-stating of facts to further his personal agenda I have come to associate Rob Fahey's name with a lack of research and understanding in the subjects he writes about and given that he is clearly aware of this criticism and yet hasn't improved suggests a lack of interest, something which really shouldn't be allowed to continue given how many talented young writers probably apply to EG and its sister-sites every week.
  • Olemak #23 11 months ago

    An interesting article, and absolutely relevant for gamers as several publishers are shutting down great studios and at the same time are focussing on social games.

    Why is this shift happening? Yes, there is a lot of hype and me-too mentality regarding the new big thing. The same thing probably happend to pinball companies in the seventies.

    But there is another factor at work also, I think: social gaming is finally a business model that the suits in power understand, and futhermore likes. Social games are easy to quantify. They don't have shelf life. They are often continuously developed, even after they are originally launched. In fact, they are fundamentally different from triple-A boxed games in pretty much every way. That must be incredibly appealing to publishers, who must be very frustrated by intangible concepts like gameplay quality, originality and creativity. Not to mention developers failing to meet milestones, accept "creative" input and suggestions (remember infinity ward?) from publishers, and just get the game ready on time, on budget, and get great reviews.

    Nobody reviews social games, and you can just throw more money at concepts that perform well. It is a dream scenario for the moneymen of the gaming industry.
  • Gastrian #24 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • Gastrian #25 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • a8a #26 11 months ago

    People who want to be outraged don't listen to reason, but might as well say it again:

    He didn't actually call EG readers cunts. He called a group of people who have a very specific reason for disagreeing with a point he made cunts. Do I agree with the point? I don't feel strongly about it either way. Was it an advisable reaction? No. Politically correct? Definitely not. But unless you were very specifically saying "I believe it's ok to portray a common scenario of mild domestic abuse, not because its not serious or wrong, but because it wouldnt cause offence if it was a guy being slapped", then you were not being called a cunt. His point was that that specific response was a cop out which avoided the real issue. I'll find the tweet for you if you like.

    Moreover, it wasn't a specific reaction to any EG reader, or even EG readers in general. It was said as part of a discussion about the article on twitter which was initiated by the EG response, sure, but as he hadnt even read the comments thread, the nonsense previously spouted about how he was angry at being "called out" by EG readers is just plain wrong.

    What really annoys me is that the comments threads for these articles, which used to be decent discussions, are now reading like the daily mail letters page. It's become a den of people angry about something they havent taken the time to familiarise themselves with.

    Anyway, feel free to ignore all my actual points and reach for the neg button instead. No doubt we'll have more hilarious puns and righteous anger next week.
  • Olemak #27 11 months ago

    @Gastrial If EA shifts it considerable financial resources around and buys PopCap for 1 000 million dollars, that means at least three things:

    1. EA is a financial machine, and diverting money into social games in this magnitude, means there'll be less money for other things, other markets. They don't have an endless supply of money. A billion dollars is a huge investment, and that means they will have to be more careful about how they spend their money in the future. That might mean no more Dead Space, no more Battlefield, no more Dragon Age. Maybe those franchises would still continue, but probably scaled back a bit in terms of content and polish. Betting on new IP could take a dive.

    That would affect a lot of gamers, certainly me.So I think that this development is highly relevant to "core gamers".

    2. The investment could fail. 1000 million dollars for a company with an annual revenue of 100 million dollars? A company priced at ten times the annual revenue is a sure sign of bubblyness right there. But what is the profit? Let's be generous and assume that they make two dollars on every dollar they spend: They have operating costs of 50 million, and earn 100 million (I don't know what the actual operating costs are, but with 400 employees they must be burning a fair bit of money - more than your average game studio, in fact). Sounds great, but it will still take 20 years to make up for that 1000 million dollar investment. And even then EA will only have recuperated their investment, but they won't have made any money yet. That does not make a lot of sense to me. Of course, they're expecting much higher earning at that price, but then the company is priced based on exceptions of the future, and not actual performanse: always a sure sign of bubble economy.

    I think such a move sounds incredibly risky. Maybe it is a necessary move, but it is still very risky. If PopCap fails to deliver, EA will have lost a lot of money. That might mean no more Old Republic, no more Bulletstorm, no more Mass Effect - or maybe those titles are shipped off to new owners, new studios. That is relevant to me, at least.

    3. Higher demands would be placed on PopCap - they would need to earn their keep. They will have to churn out more games, more updates, more platforms, faster. A lot more, in fact. That might affect quality. I like PopCap games. But I like them because they are highly polished and plays well. I do not need another Bejeweled every year - in fact, I only have one, and that's fine.

    So both EA and PopCap could end up changing a lot following an investment like this. That is relevant.


    Bottom line: if this deal is real, EA will have to take money from the AAA game pile, and put it in the social/app pile instead.
    That means less money for the games I care about and play, and more money for games I have very little interest in.
    The entire focus of the games industries is shifting away from the games I find worthwile. If that isn't relevant, then I don't know what is.

    I like Peggle and Plant vs. Zombies just fine, but I won't trade my Battlefield for it.
    The Sims, on the other hand, they can have.
  • PatTheMav #28 11 months ago

    Forgetting some company here? I feel it's overlooked in other articles on that topic, even though it's current value is higher than those of others mentioned in the piece:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a5e345e0-6f81-...
  • coolbritannia #29 11 months ago

    @a8a, go on then, find the tweets. you'll find a great deal of them was rob talking directly to me.

    the cunt.
  • BBIAJ #30 11 months ago

    Rob Fahey
    @robfahey
    @Cool_Britannia Some of EG's readership may fall into that bracket. That's not the same as saying "the EG readership are cunts".
  • coolbritannia #31 11 months ago

    Now post what that bracket is
  • djed #32 11 months ago

    Your first post took the words right out of my mouth, coolbritannia, you cunt.

    Might I add that I did learn something today: When you make investments, you need to be careful!
  • bluetoothion #33 11 months ago

    Every new market begins slow, evolves, improves, gets the attention of big wings then inflates then its getting milked and finally bursts to its below normal margins till the not so kind time gives it a rest and hopefully the next Bigger thing does't come along soon enough to make it extinct.

    The article served little purpose to people who understand that the market has the tendency to create bubbles...its kinda necessary considering every investment risk is based upon a human estimation of the near/distant future expectations and that is as solid as thin air.

    For this article to be in any relevance to EG it would be to make some sort of a connection or given information how resourses are shared to see how much we are getting less, choosing to stick with home consoles investing heavilly on our living room configuration
    when so much money is spend on a oldish hardware specs of mobile / scenarioless games / a game that was created from scratch to occupy 15-20 minutes of your time. and if there is any connection to game developers getting short sighted or uninspired to create something that pays less than creating a puzzle platformer for mobiles.
  • Murton #34 11 months ago

    "It's become a den of people angry about something they havent taken the time to familiarise themselves with. "

    Swap the reading "angry" for "writing" and you pretty much describe the entire group of EuroGamer sites. Even the recent face off read as though it had been written by someone who wasn't too sure. It had all the literary flair (or lack) that Leadbetter usually puts out but the technical analysis was oddly absent, almost like he didn't do a full analysis but still wrote the article anyway.

    EG, DF and GI have gotten lazy as of late and they need to step up and address that, there are certain writers that I genuinely enjoy reading, Tom Bramwell and Simon Parkin to name two and other that I feel may be beyond redemption and should be cut free to allow some new blood to enter, such the two Robs who can't be bothered to research their subjects before writing articles, which in Purchese's case is simply unacceptable as he's supposed to be a news writer rather than writing opinion pieces as Fahey does.
  • CaptainQuint #35 11 months ago

    @a8a

    Is that you Rob? I mean, you really went out of your way to defend Mr Fahey's 'honour'. That was quite an impassioned defence, there.

    And all this bull about how Rob "doesn't read the comments" to his articles (on EG). Get out it - if you believe that then you're just as stupid as Rob likes to think we are. The man clearly has a writer's ego, so put two and two together...
  • Gastrian #36 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:16 09-05-2012
  • madsox1 #37 11 months ago

    Lot of sooky ppl on here :)
  • linea #38 11 months ago

    Most people criticising the article seem not to have actually read it properly- at least read the bloody thing properly before jumping in!

    The point of it is that the social gaming sphere is *different* to the social networking sphere, and that despite the companies perhaps being overvalued there are solid reasons for investing- unlike Twitter for example where it's very unclear where money could be made.
  • Gastrian #39 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • Olemak #40 11 months ago

    @Gastrian You're probably right, but I still thought the article was interesting.

    The question is if "core games" can coexist with this heavy focus on social gaming and lightweight apps.
    The business model for social games and apps is probably smarter and more sophisticated than the traditional studio model.
    But I am not interested in social games, mobile apps and "freemium" games. My poison of choice is the boxed, triple-A console game. Hopefully, the divisions can exist peacefully side by side, and ove-rinvesting in risky bubble ventures won't cause risk to good publishers. Not saying that PopCap is a bubble, but I am pretty sure that some of the bets being placed these days will fail.

    EA took a risk with Dead Space. The first game took two or three years to make and was still a dud, sales wise. Still, they invested again, and released a great sequel two years after the original. That's a gutsy move, and great for innovation og quality. But will they be able to make bets on "promising, but unproven franchises" like this in the future if it makes more sense to just pout money into the dollardoubling PopCap engine?

    My point is, I guess: Im not terribly interested in social games. Wasted a bit of time on Mafia Wars, and I've played through Peggle, Bejewelled, Plants vs. Zombies, and now I am completely cured. I don't even play games while on the bus; I'd rather just look out the window, that's how bored I am with these games. My wife plays a lot on the iPhone, but she only ever plays Angry Birds. She's not really expanding the market or anything like that. Personally, I think a lot of these bubbles will burst, and so I found Rob's overview of what's happening in the games industry quite interesting.You clearly didn't. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that I think :)
  • muttler #41 11 months ago

    Well said Gastrian.

    This article is so typical of Fahey. He just throws these big numbers around and says, "See, it's a bubble market, SEE?" No insight at all and totally ignoring the facts that these companies are making huge profits and that the social / mobile gaming market is huge and doesn't show any real signs of decline. Also another glaring factual error saying PopCap are one of these new companies, and using this case again and again in his argument.

    I understand that the powers that be in EG are very buddy-buddy with each other and that's very nice but really, consider the damage these joke articles and joke reviews are doing to your standing in the gaming scene. The managers and editors in EG towers need to get their ducks in a row.

    And to back up what others have said, if anyone in any company I ever worked for, publicly called the customers a bunch of whinging white male cunts they'd be looking for a new job the same day. And before anyone says, Twitter IS public, or at least accessible by the public- so as good as. Certainly in an IT based industry there's no excuse.



  • Gastrian #42 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • a8a #43 11 months ago

    @coolbritannia

    Here you go:

    Tweet 1: The reaction to anything like this is always basically, "where's your sense of humour" or "it'd be fine if it was a man!"

    Tweet 2: The latter of those arguments is particularly odious. Selfish, ignorant, fuckwitted white male whinging. Cunts.

    Quite specific, I'm sure you'll agree. If you read it this time, that is. The ones addressed to you only made it clearer, but you managed to ignore those and still only hear what you wanted, so I'm not hopeful.

    @Murton
    I find myself agreeing with some of what you say actually, particularly about the news. I'm not fond of the more "tabloid" direction EG has taken over past couple of years, although I'm quite happy to read it still. In particular, I'd rather see less news generally than have the new posts filled with "Developer X hates Activision boss" news which has very little directly to do with actual gaming. Relevant industy stuff, I like, but it has become a little bit sensationalist.

    I'm less impressed with the argument that the writers don't know what theyre talking about, because I have not had that experience. I don't always agree with them, but I don't think they come across as uninformed. Picking up on minor points such as "PopCap is a 10 year old company!" seems like youre just selecting easy targets rather than picking holes in the actual argument. I mean, do you honestly believe that the writer genuinely thinks that PopCap popped up (pardon the pun) in the last 2-3 years? You think hes never heard of Bejeweled? When you write large volumes of words on a regular basis, things like this will crop up.

    @Captain_Quint
    I assure you I am not Rob Fahey. And he certainly doesn't need anyone to defend him; he seems quite capable of that himself. I can't say for sure that he doesn't read the comments, but I suspect he's not lying when he says he doesnt, for three simple reasons. One; he is a professional journalist who has been writing for EG for about 10 years - that kind of career can only lead to an emphatic disinterest in what random people you've never met think of your writing. Two; he has never been shy in the past (years ago) about piping up in a comments thread when he disagrees with a comment. Three; he seemed unaware on twitter of the controversy until told about it by friends.

    I have to say I looked up his twitter feed after I saw the "OMG he just called us cunts!" comment, and I was taken aback not by his lack of diplomacy (which was self-evident), but the speed at which people jumped on top of it with so little regard to the context. My personal interest in the situation is simply that I would rather read an interesting discussion on a Saturday rather than a page of vitriol.

    Edit: Three simple reasons, not two. The third occurred to me as I was writing the first two.
    Edited by a8a at 26/06/11 @ 17:02
  • TheNinkyNonk #44 11 months ago

    If my experience of the App/Mobile scene is anything to go by the public will quickly lose interest after spending a fortune on the emperor's new clothes
  • Gastrian #45 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • TheNinkyNonk #46 11 months ago

    Are we really still going on about cuntgate?
  • TheNinkyNonk #47 11 months ago

    Here's a thought: those of you moaning about these articles should write your own each week and post it in the comments thread. That way we can all see if you can put your money where your mouth is. If you can't manage a weekly article of similar length, I suggest you quit moaning and leave it to the professional.
  • coolbritannia #48 11 months ago

    Excellent argument TheNinkyNonk, let's apply that to life in general shall we.

    "oh no, the surgeon killed dad and was grossly negligent"

    "well let's see you do open heart surgery then"

    "but I don't get paid to do th-"

    "shut up"
  • a8a #49 11 months ago

    @EddieMink
    I think perhaps you are using the term "clearly" a bit too liberally. How is its "clear" that his twitter updates were "inspired by a realisation that one of [his] "articles" was fundamentally idiotic"? I mean, if he thought his argument was fundamentally idiotic, surely he would have played it down, or suggested that he was being metaphorical, or that he had been mis-interpreted or something. It seems to me unlikely that he came to this inspired realization that he was actually totally wrong, and then decided to act upon it by continuing to support his previous views.

    But I will agree with you in so far as you assert that it's not really defending himself. It's not. He hasn't defended himself. It seems like he doesn't feel the need to. I merely suggested that he could certainly do it for himself if he chose to. He doesn't need any white knights, and I am certainly not aspiring to such a position. I disagree with what he says quite often - in fact, I didnt even particularly agree with the Duke Nukem article, although I did see where he was coming from.

    @Gastrian
    The fact that they are, in your own words, "simple errors" rather than fundamental flaws in the article surely suggests that this reaction is over the top. Like I said above, I don't agree with him all the time, and the articles by their very nature are often of little interest to me. However, I often come across articles of his that I find well written, informative on a topic which I know little about, or providing an insight I hadnt thought of into a topic. Before the Duke Nukem article, I thoroughly enjoyed the comments threads - usually there was a decent and well-reasoned discussion on both sides, or on a tangential issue not touched on. The very fact that the whining about how rubbish a writer he is began to appear every week alongside the spurious complaining about being called a cunt suggests that perhaps there are other factors in play. The fact that it is centering around "simple errors" rather than fundamental flaws only adds weight to that. Long story short - lots of people are reacting to an imagined slight, rather than a problem with the article specifically.
  • Smoped #50 11 months ago

    Jesus. You butt-hurt guys probably shouldn't try so very hard to prove him right.
  • coolbritannia #51 11 months ago

    People keep saying "you're proving him right", but we're really not.

    Unless you go with the theory that anyone with a point of view different from yours is a cunt. Which makes you as bad as Rob.
  • Smoped #52 11 months ago

    I was talking about the others. You're just being an odious cunt.
  • Gastrian #53 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • a8a #54 11 months ago

    @Gastrian

    I disagree. Companies not affected by bubble economies are valued based on predicted profit over a certain period, or a measurable account of how they can add value to another company, or both. Valuations happen at a certain time, they don't "predate" the bubble. If PopCap is valued at one billion today, that means that EITHER they have been given a predicted profit margin of over one billion in a given period of time, OR they have been overvalued by the market. Given that they are a ten-year old company in a relatively new market, I think that ten years is a frankly generous time period in which to assume they will have made back their sale price. The numbers for these figures were done by an earlier post, I'm not going to get into the details of discussing them again.

    The point is that PopCap are not an "old" company, even by games industry measures. Sure, they are not brand new, but I would read the article with the confidence that the writer has heard of Bejeweled and knows how old they are. I don't believe his argument hangs on them being brand new, and as a large company in the market, it is a reasonable point to make that their overvaluation points to a bubble in the market. If your argument is that they are not precisely typical of every other company in the sector, then I think you may be on a hiding to nothing.
  • Gastrian #55 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012
  • DarthMartious #56 11 months ago

    I think in the context of this argument (Rob Fahey's status notwithstanding) the important point is that PopCap aren't now and never were a social network games company. What they are is a games company with the foresight to see that their products could be advertised very easily on social networking sites by offering free - but limited - versions to users of social networking sites.

    I'm not privy to PopCap's finances and it might be that the advertising revenue taken from social network sites represents the majority of its income, but I doubt it. If it was it wouldn't still sell full releases of its games on various platforms or advertise those full releases via the social network sites it has traction with at the expense of other adverts.

    In short: PopCap is not representative of the social-gaming bubble and its $1Bn valuation shouldn't be taken as such. The real bubble is in companies like Zynga who don't have a business outside of social networking.
  • erp #57 11 months ago

    Is it just me, or do these weekend articles always have a really strange (not to mention overly-abundant) usage of hyphens?
  • Murton #58 11 months ago

    "The point is that PopCap are not an "old" company, even by games industry measures. Sure, they are not brand new, but I would read the article with the confidence that the writer has heard of Bejeweled and knows how old they are."

    But he did open his article by saying that they were a new company born out of the newly born rise of social and mobile gaming, something which I pointed out in my first post to be factually inaccurate as PopCap not only predates the social scene but was successful before that scene existed. As with his arguments last week on digital distribution and his previous articles on digital content Rob appears to have blurred the past slightly so that his arguments make sense. Last week for example Fahey described Steam as a digital distributor before the term was invented, yet at the time he mentioned specifically Steam didn't sell anything, merely delivered patches. But his core argument relied on portraying Steam as the first to the scene and a gamers favourite, and having the timeline correct would spoiled that a little so he trimmed the details slightly.

    We see this every week, a slight modification of the facts or an omission of certain details to back his point. Go back before the Duke article to his ramblings on cloud gaming and how it's the best thing ever and will kill the retail sector. At no point on either page did he point out that A: retail represents a guaranteed income that publishers will not throw away lightly and B: the largest gaming markets lack the infrastructure to support cloud gaming at the HD level. But hey, those were counterpoints to his argument so why should he explore them?
  • Gastrian #59 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012