Molyneux: "Kinect has some problems"

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 21 June, 2011

"Navigation is a real problem."

Lionhead boss Peter Molyneux has admitted that Xbox 360 motion-sensing add-on Kinect "has got some problems".

Molyneux, who at Microsoft's E3 press conference revealed Kinect game Fable: The Journey, told Gaming Union that most of the controller-free sensor's issues revolve around navigation.

"I'll admit that Kinect has got some problems," he said. "As an input device it has some real problems. Without a thumb stick, navigation is a real problem. You haven't got any buttons, so ordering the player to do something can be somewhat of a problem. But what Kinect does have is a great sense of freedom and emotion. So that's what we've tried to do with Fable: The Journey."

Fable: The Journey's E3 on-stage demo was criticised for suggesting the entire game is an on-rails experience – and accusation Molyneux was keen to deny.

Molyneux said the game came about after Microsoft requested the UK studio create a core Kinect game.

"It started about seven months ago when Microsoft came to us and said, 'Look we want you to do a [Kinect] experience for the core gamers,' he said.

"So we sat down and thought through the problems with that, and the first thing was figuring out how we can make Kinect more engaging, more engrossing, and more emotional than any control-based game or any Fable game has ever been before."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (83) Latest comment 11 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • riceNpea #1 11 months ago

    Molyneux is just pointing out what is obvious to everyone except MS. Unless you're standing on the holodeck of the Starship Enterprise games will always need a tactile interface.

  • unacomn #2 11 months ago

    Yes, it does have a great sense of freedom... on rails. You're free to do anything as long as it's what we allow you to do.

  • jellyBelly #3 11 months ago

    Kinect + wiimote would work

  • karooo #4 11 months ago

    Thts a complete u turn, looks like that e3 demo made him mad.

  • Inmediasress #5 11 months ago

    Since when is Fable considered a core experience? Whatever that supposed to mean anyway.
    People should not try to kid themselves Fable will be an on-rails experience.

  • Cjail #6 11 months ago

    Is anyone surprised?

  • Dewin #7 11 months ago

    @jellyBelly

    Kinect + Wiimote = Playstation Move

  • alcides #8 11 months ago

    @JellyBelly Kinect + wiimote would work

    erm... er... Move?

  • Whitster #9 11 months ago

    Surely you could find happy medium between using the controller to move and hand gestures for magic, etc?

  • linea #10 11 months ago

    Well, as long as 'navigation' and 'doing things' are the only problems!

    I mean what games or software have ever required those elements?

  • Daddy-Doom-Bar #11 11 months ago

    If they could tweak it for sitting down more, then core games could still use a controller, but use Kinect for gestures, voice and head tracking. There's no problem with taking one hand off the controller to wave it around a bit.

  • CaptainQuint #12 11 months ago

    They need to sort the lag out before they move onto the navigation problem.

  • coolbritannia #13 11 months ago

    Blatantly Molyneux preparing the ground for his decision to make the currently completely free form Fable Journey an on rails experience, in no way resembling the shockingly bad demo we saw at E3.

  • Byblos1 #14 11 months ago

    He's just setting us up for the announcement that he's found an 'emotional and groundbreaking' solution to the navigation problem.

    Fart once to go left, twice for right.

  • Shadders #15 11 months ago

    Why do no games allow you to use a controller for navigation and then still do all the gestural stuff with your hands/arms?

  • Raniz #16 11 months ago

    @Shadders

    Because that would involve holding your controller with both hands and then letting it go with one or both hands to wave your arms around. I don't think it would feel very natural.

    Devs (and MS) needs to stop trying to work Kinect into traditional games and start thinking about how to develop original ideas for the Kinect instead. Child of Eden is the only game I've ever seen/read about that's made me even remotely interested in using Kinect.

  • Softie2k #17 11 months ago

    Does anyone else think that Nintendo has played this one perfectly? They lured Microsoft right in and now they're f***ing off!

  • patchbox360 #18 11 months ago

    is he trying to lose Microsoft Kinect sales, i would expect that comment from someone who wasn't being paid by Microsoft.

  • McShifty #19 11 months ago

    I would've thought the key to making more 'emotional' games would be to minimise the hurdles between player thought and in game action. I've been playing on consoles a fair while now, long enough to know that when I'm prompted to press square, I don't need to look down at my hands - in fact I don't even think about it at all. However, if I'm prompted to wave my arms about like an excited baboon then this is going to completely rip me out of any emotional experience. Unless you count physical exhaustion as an emotion.

  • jumpdeveraux #20 11 months ago

    Even if MS implemented hardware/software updates to improve latency and nailed finger tracking the challenge becomes that gestures for certain actions will vary from game to game even within genre e.g. like a shooter. I think it will be difficult to players to remember the full scope of gesture inputs for every game - at least with a controller one screenshot of a button map gives you a full refresh of the abilities at your disposal.

    Perhaps they can implement a shoulder shrug to bring up ingame help?

  • altitude2k #21 11 months ago

    Well done Pete - head of Microsoft Game Studios Europe. You've just done yourself out of a job.

  • linksdad #22 11 months ago

    Peter, kinect + dancemat!

  • Cronan #23 11 months ago

    What a sorry bunch of mealy-mouthed critics there are in this comments thread today. Molyneux is one of very few industry figures who speaks his mind, and you use it as a spring-board to criticise all the things you've already decided you hate.

    You bunch of feckless trolls, and I mean that with all love and affection.

  • muttler #24 11 months ago

    muttler: "Molyneux has some problems"

    Stop making Fable shite and make a Populous or Dungeon Keeper game!!!

  • zubnut #25 11 months ago

    Nice one Pete, someone actually has the balls to admit the kinect is not perfect for all things.
    Now go and figure out how to make something decent with it that we all won't hide away after 10 minutes. Go on, off you go.

  • Yossarian #26 11 months ago

    Peter Molyneux points out what anyone with half a brain recognized as one of the numerous problems with Kinect.

    I will say you could use a combination of Kinect and regular controller, but Microsoft seem to resist this idea, probably because it would go against their retarded mantra of 'controller-free', 'casual' gaming.

  • StooMonster #27 11 months ago

    I still wonder why you can't play Kinect games holding a controller in one hand, or why they don't create an accessory controller that is one handed and maybe has a thumb stick on top and buttons on the front (fewer than full Xbox controller) ... Like a Wii nunchuck with an extra button or two.

  • mss99 #28 11 months ago

    You will be emotionally involved when you are cursing the game and Kinnect for not letting you do what you want. For Peter on the MS payroll to say this he must be pretty emotional over how Kinnect is stuffing up his plans for the game he wanted to make.

  • obihobson #29 11 months ago

    i think kinect needs a nunchuk or a light gun or something ,, RPGs could workl really well if there was some additional way of navigating . imagine fallout 3 were you actualy had to walk eveywhere yourself, that would be mental... Without another peice of hardware the only good game for kinect will always be Child of Eden... Why do i always get roped into buying crap

  • patch #30 11 months ago

    Would be interesting to see how he'd work Fable out for a Move / Wiimote, or a Populous / Powermonger game for Kinect. Unfortunately Microsoft want Fable for Kinect so it seems he's stuck with that. He's usually a pretty staunch supporter of MS and Kinect in particular, so he must be pretty peeved to come out with this statement.

  • chibber23 #31 11 months ago

    When it came out I said on here that you would see a bunch of 3rd or 1st party controlers launch for it down the line as it needs an input so you can move around freely... I stand by that one!

  • Raconteur #32 11 months ago

    What he said: "I'll admit that Kinect has got some problems,"
    What he means: "Oops, another promise I can't keep"

  • BuckEntropy #33 11 months ago

    Problem x4, in one paragraph! He just acknowledges the obvious, hardly a turnaround of anything previously said. But with "some problems; some real problems; a real problem; somewhat of a problem" the statement may cause... problems. lol

    Oh and BTW, Eurogamer is so biased! Muckrakers. ;)

  • orangpelupa #34 11 months ago

    Seems Lionhead will be happy if there official support for KINECT + MOVE :)

    your full body and voice can be tracked by Kinect.
    Your fingers can do action with Move's buttons

    your arm can "aim" precise using MOVE's ball

  • Yossarian #35 11 months ago

    "I still wonder why you can't play Kinect games holding a controller in one hand, or why they don't create an accessory controller that is one handed and maybe has a thumb stick on top and buttons on the front (fewer than full Xbox controller) ... Like a Wii nunchuck with an extra button or two."

    Because then Kinect is just Wii with added latency, and even Microsoft recognize that as very, very bad.

  • Biker_Bob_1971 #36 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:15 09-05-2012

  • Mister-Wario #37 11 months ago

    "Without a thumb stick, navigation is a real problem. You haven't got any buttons, so ordering the player to do something can be somewhat of a problem. But what Kinect does have is a great sense of freedom and emotion".

    Ugh, talk about corporate doublethink.

  • asphaltcowboy #38 11 months ago

    @alcides Yes, because Move tracks your entire body... :/

  • MaoZedong #39 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 09:40:08 17-12-2011

  • mr2ange #40 11 months ago

    @asphaltcowboy

    Skip to 4:41

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtY12ziHuII
    ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtY12ziHuII
    </a>

    Very fast psuedo upper skeleton - has quite a lot of potential, although admittedly its a tech demo thus far.
    Edited by mr2ange at 21/06/11 @ 09:49

  • edhe #41 11 months ago

    This is why i love peter - his opinion always comes out above any corporate mandate.

    Of course, he's right. His 'solution' seems a good idea though, using horses and only getting off the carriage to investigate areas.

    But you know what *is* good for navigation? the bloody joypad everyone gets with a 360.

  • Osahi #42 11 months ago

    On rails after all, Peter?

  • sonicyoda #43 11 months ago

    So how did you solve those problems then? I want to know how you navigate the world damn it!

    @StooMonster What, like this? http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/...
    (not being a fanboy-baiting bastard by the way. Just a simple comment)
    Edited by sonicyoda at 21/06/11 @ 10:05

  • RevanNL #44 11 months ago

    I think Kinects main problem is that it's shit for most games except Dance Central

  • Geordiemp #45 11 months ago

    Notice the luke warm polite applause at the end.

    The audience are too polite to tell you it looks crap peter !

  • handsonhips101 #46 11 months ago

    If they release a controller it will go back on all that "who needs buttons?" Bull crap. You ARE the controller! Lol.

    Yeah I'm baiting but I'm tired.

  • davisorle #47 11 months ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:15 09-05-2012

  • Skooch #48 11 months ago

    "games will always need a tactile interface"

    This is a rather sweeping statement. No doubt Kinect is tougher to navigate a character around with than a standard controller but it also does things the standard controller can't (voice recognition, body mapping, facial scanning).

    You only have to look at games like Dance Central and Kinect Sports, and even Kinect Adventures if you are a kiddie, to see that there are opportunities above and beyond standard gaming interfaces.

    It wasn't so long ago PC gamers were saying a decent FPS could never be done on a console because of no mouse/keyboard. Now FPSs are the biggest console platform genre that exists.

  • [TR] #49 11 months ago

    Surely MS has made back enough money on Kinect for it to not be a complete bust, but I think they didn't weigh the R&D costs and final price as well as they should.
    If this had come sooner, they could have competed with Nintendo for the "casual" market and be OK even if they didn't do anything with Kinect beside specific games. But now, whoever would have bought a Wii "because it looks cool", has. And the people who bought Kinect are probably still waiting for something that will justify their purchase. Given Kinect's price, that either has to be a tremendous game or at least a few good ones. In the end, I think MS has let those people down with not enough support for what they promised (and continue to promise) as a new platform.
    If they had waited a few months, maybe even a year, maybe they could have released Kinect with a lower price and a more robust and diverse software suite.

  • patchbox360 #50 11 months ago

    ...Milo must be playing hard to get

  • RoaringPanda #51 11 months ago

    Kinect + Xbox controller? Why not?

    edit: Haters gonna hate *struts in a pimp hat*
    Edited by RoaringPanda at 21/06/11 @ 23:06

  • StooMonster #52 11 months ago

    @sonicyoda: you could well be right.

    Don't get me wrong, my kids love Kinect -- although they still love the old Wii too and probably use it more -- but for me, it could do with one or even two of these.

  • StooMonster #53 11 months ago

    @RoaringPanda: that's what I was saying, one can easily hold controller in one hand. e.g. left hand holding left side would give one a trigger and a thumb stick.

    But it goes against the marketing of "controller free gaming" so I can't see it happening.

  • sonicyoda #54 11 months ago

    I reckon he's solved the navigation by having small, on-rails sections where you decide what path to take at the end. Oh wait, that's still on rails.

  • kinky_mong #55 11 months ago

    Wow, that's the first true thing Lolyneux has said in almost a decade!

  • BuckEntropy #56 11 months ago

    MS have an awful lot of work cut out for them, and there's bound to be plenty of 'failed' experiments, but they've clearly staked their turf. It's all but unthinkable they'd ever resort to adding any new equipment into the equation, it's confusing and loses the distinction of a single unit motion control solution. If anything they've seemed overly stubborn about not facilitating hybrid controls so far, which seems a little stupid to me. If they at least get things like the head-tracking in Forza or other supplemental effects totally reliable it could go a long way, 'comfortable' and 'invisible' might be at least as valuable as 'essential' in terms of keeping people from regarding it as a gimmick.

    So basically even if they stay this course of nothing but casual/gimmicky Kinect only games, or gimmicky/nonessential additions to other games, I think the single most important thing right now is making all possible effort to get it responding to the simplest things easily and well.

  • Beano #57 11 months ago

    "Kinect + Xbox controller? Why not?"

    Because it goes agains the whole "you are the controller" promise.

    Unless they change it to "you are the controller.. and here is another controller"

  • Jon1292 #58 11 months ago

    Ohhhh he's gonna get a spankinnnn

  • BuddyChrist #59 11 months ago

    Molyneux in problem SHOCKER

  • d00dl #60 11 months ago

    If MS brought out a micro nunchuk or a navi controller using something like that slider on the 3DS its worth it. Sometimes one has to concede that there are limitations and the solution is a tribute (emulation) emulation. No shame in that at all considering Sony and MS both 'inspired' their motion experiences as a result of the success of the Wii. Although they both had various 'bits' of what they used to create them floating about their respective corporations.

    Or to summarise - MS!!! Please bring out a mini stick with a trigger or something. You have a great product that is being limited by your lack of acknowledging its limitations. A small navi could work as people dont need to buy it because they could 'manage' with a controller.

  • TheNinkyNonk #61 11 months ago

    A developer famed for big promises he doesn't deliver on working on technology famed for big promises it doesn't deliver on?

    /golf clap

  • GreyBeard #62 11 months ago

    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    Kinect's achilles heel is that it unavoidably places the player in a virtual wheelchair, despite the "freedom" offered by motion input the fly in the ointment is that the camera must remain static and the player must stay within its field of vision.

    Effectively you can't use your legs for their natural purpose of locomotion; hence the wheelchair analogy where every Kinect game that allows ,movement around a virtual environment needs to run on rails or use some other byzantine, indirect method of getting around.

    Its every bit as critical a flaw as the absence of buttons, and worse in some ways as it breaks immersion.

  • Xardan #63 11 months ago

    Nothing is perfect shocker.

  • 32768Colours #64 11 months ago

    I've often found that all the problems raised by Molyneux can be solved with a control pad, or a keyboard and mouse.

    Kinect is simply a solution looking for a problem.

  • Hermiod #65 11 months ago

    It also has the non-American living rooms problem. You have games like Mass Effect 3 adding voice control features that shouldn't even require Kinect (why no headset support?) making those of us without gigantic living rooms consider buying one and then seeing the 6ft space requirement.

  • Beano #66 11 months ago

    "why no headset support?"

    They want to sell you a Kinect.

    Voice commands in console games is not a new thing, but MS want us to belive it this new and "magical" device called Kinect, that finally makes it possible.

  • 32768Colours #67 11 months ago

    @Hermiod and Beano

    Really? So the voice control in ME3 is Kinect only? EndWar worked well enough with the headset.

    What a pathetic attempt at making Kinect seem essential.

  • VibratingDonkey #68 11 months ago

    I might be wrong, but it sounds like what Lionhead has done is set up a separate navigation mode (horse carriage). I'm assuming you can go wherever by steering the horse with your invisible reins. And once you get off the carriage it's essentially on rails magic shootery gesture stuff and whatever sort of minigames they can conjure up. I was gonna say they could do a dialog system, but then I remembered this is Fable.

    But yeah, navigating is kind of an inherent problem with Kinect. It doesn't seem a particularly good fit for action games. The Star Wars game just looks ridiculous. There's latency, it takes time to perform the moves and for the game to respond to them, and the moveset seems really limited. It's on rails. So you get this sluggish, stilted, awkward, restrictive thing.

  • StooMonster #69 11 months ago

    32768Colours: Kinect is simply a solution looking for a problem.

    Even though I'm lucky enough to have a living room that easily has enough space to jump around with full support and nothing in the way ... I think that Kinect is idea for dance games, very good for fitness, pretty good for (some) sports, and maybe okay at some mini- or party-games.

    But I really don't see it working very well with anything else.

  • Hermiod #70 11 months ago

    @Beano - Of course I realise it was designed to sell the Kinect. The point was that voice control, especially the part where you 'act' out your dialogue choices, is a really cool feature that could have added to the what I'm sure will be an already great game. It's disappointing to me because I don't have the space to use the motion control features that the game I would buy it for won't even use.

  • jebus #71 11 months ago

    @Shaders "Why do no games allow you to use a controller for navigation and then still do all the gestural stuff with your hands/arms?"

    Because MS won't (or at least wouldn't allow it) - at least that was the case when I was working on Kinnect - which was an horrific experience

  • Dewin #72 11 months ago

    @davisorle

    I know pretty well what Kinect can and cannot do. Most people on these forums do. It is not fuckin rocket science. But i also know what an eyetoy can do. And what a Move can do. Trust me, i'm not far of the mark... "kiddo"...

  • 32768Colours #73 11 months ago

    @StooMonster

    You're right, its probably great for those sorts of games, but then my issue is that its really little more than an advanced dance mat. Certainly not technology that will change the face of gaming.

    In principle, the idea of having a powerful camera capable of detecting motion is a great idea. When I first saw Kinect my imagination was set racing with the possibilities. But then I had the same optimism when the Wii was revealed. It just doesn't seem to have panned out that well so far. If Peter Molyneux is expressing doubts about Kinect before he's even released anything for it, then it proves there are issues. Usually, he can't help but hype all the features his game has (or won't have!) where as on this occasion - a first as far as I recall - he's actually sounding rather frustrated.

  • Kaminari #74 11 months ago

    Surprise surprise...

  • ajaxpliskin #75 11 months ago

    Microsoft has to push Developers to make Kinect games. No one in their right mind would want to otherwise because it's a huge piece of turd.

    Here's an idea, use a controller????

  • obidanshinobi #76 11 months ago

    Shut up Mimsy !!!

  • mornegroth #77 11 months ago

    Peter... Please cut the crap and develop a core PC game if you don't mind.

  • Geowolf #78 11 months ago

    As jelly_belly said Kinect plus wiimote / nunchuk controllers would work. For those who claim this is Move, the Kinect can still do more analysis of emotions, the face, feet position, etc. Therefore, while similar, the Kinect would still have an advantage.

    Honestly though, it's time for BCI to make an appearance. Come on, we can now control wheel chairs and robotic arms with Brain Computer Interfacing.

  • huckan #79 11 months ago

    I don't understand... they nailed it years ago with Milo.... we all saw the unscripted demo....

  • paulf #80 11 months ago

    why do people always quiver when they hear 'on-rails' - Rez, House of the Dead and the glorious Child of Eden are all 'on-rails' and still pretty tasty

  • Sir_STRESSHEaD #81 11 months ago

    I automatically switch off whenever this guy has something to say. He'd do well to let somebody do his talking for him. P.S Fable blows!

  • L0cky #82 11 months ago

    We can't have the Kinect + nunchuck controls because MS didn't bother to ship with nunchuck controls. They'd have to release one and do a new marketing campaign equal to the one they did for Kinect to make sure uptake is strong enough to justify developers implementing it.

    Their stubborn 'You are the controller' approach shows how marketing can often boss the product.

    /tail wags dog

    It's a shame nobody pulled off a full motion controls solution addressing all of the problems as we don't know if it would have ever have worked. One of them will have to go full hog next time round with accurate camera; skeletal detection; face and voice recognition; individual hand controllers with full motion and pointing capabilities out of the box. Only then we'll get to find out if it all really does work as a better gaming experience than a plain old joypad.

    But that sounds like way too much investment for too much risk; so I'm guessing the whole idea of motion controls is going to pass over as a strange fad.

  • suicidal_penguins #83 11 months ago

    I took from this that Molyneux was prepping the "fable: the journey was not as good as we wanted it to be but fable the journey 2 is totally perfect" type story he wheeled out with each normal fable release. However, if he really is, genuinely, criticising kinect then that is indeed more interesting. At the moment kinect is more of a "toy" than the wii ever was. It needs criticism like that if it is to become more.