EA: we lost some fans with Dragon Age 2

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 14 June, 2011

Will take feedback on for Dragon Age 3.

EA has admitted it "lost some fans" with the release of fantasy role-playing game Dragon Age 2.

Dragon Age 2 launched in March to mixed reviews. Eurogamer's Dragon Age 2 review turned up an 8/10.

Many fans complained at the re-use of environments and the single city setting of Kirkwall.

"We were clearly disappointed with some of the response from the fanbase, because we want them to be as excited about it as we are," EA Games Label boss Frank Gibeau told Eurogamer.

"We're very proud of the game. We tried to innovate and do some different things with the combat system and some of the way we told story. For some fans it worked well. In fact, we brought a lot of new fans into the Dragon Age franchise.

"But to be honest, we lost some fans as well. They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd done. We understand that and we're listening."

EA will take on fan feedback for Dragon Age 3, Gibeau promised.

"As we think about where we take the franchise next, we're going to take that into consideration and really engage them," he said.

"Ray [Muzyka] and Greg [Zeschuk] have built a long career being close to their fanbase and understanding what they want. If they do something in a direction that is innovative and fresh for some but not for others, they'll take that into consideration as we think about the next design and where the game goes from here."

Last month a tweet revealed BioWare was looking for staff to work on Dragon Age 3.

In a Dragon Age II interview with Eurogamer, lead designer Mike Laidlaw said the developer had "ideas" for a sequel and protagonist Hawke.

What about multiplayer?

"Long-term that's something we have to consider," he said, "because obviously multiplayer is something that's a huge undertaking, it presents technical difficulty. And frankly it's something that if done, has to be done really well, otherwise it feels very tacked on. So we'll have to make any decision about that within that context."

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (82) Latest comment 8 months ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Yossarian #1 8 months ago

    Brahahaha.

  • Lotos8ter #2 8 months ago

    I enjoyed DA2 and completed it, but the lack of environments is an absolute disgrace in a title of this nature. I also thought the writing was sub-par in comparison to the first title. The story wound its way to a conclusion where no-one won and I was questioning my part in the events that unfolded.
    The title felt rushed in scope if not necessarily in execution. As my school reports used to say, "Could do a lot better"

  • Platinum_2011 #3 8 months ago

    Why not just separate the waters. Keep this franchise for the hardcore rpgs fans (like it was meant to be) and create another that caters the COD and Farmville crowd you are so interested in getting. Why try and mix them both and expect to please them all? Doesn't make any sense.

  • Gumersindo #4 8 months ago

    No DA2 DLC yet?

    It seems things aren't going alright with this game.

  • -cerberus- #5 8 months ago

    Don't worry, EA. It doesn't stop at one game as you've lost plenty over the years.

  • StolenGlory #6 8 months ago

    Multiplayer? Eh?

    Why the fuck do you HAVE to consider it at all?

    Plebs.

  • LHH #7 8 months ago

    If listening to fan feedback is the answer I guess we can look at the Mass Effect franchise to see the effects of that

  • ZizouFC #8 8 months ago

    Don't worry about adding multiplayer.

  • metalangel #9 8 months ago

    Nobody I know who played Draggin Arse 2 thought it was particularly good.

    While you're taking feedback and being close to your fanbase, guys, stop turning Mass Effect into a shooter.

  • styles_dg #10 8 months ago

    And what about Mass Effect 2 and the fans they lost from dumbing that down? ....will they give a shit about what the fans think for ME3? Probably not ...it'll make a crapload of money regardless.

  • PaletteSwap #11 8 months ago

    No shit, Sherlock.

  • addugg #12 8 months ago

    I thought it was one of the best action adventure games I've played recently.

    Wait, what do you mean it's an RPG?

  • username84 #13 8 months ago

    After playing through both games DA2 was such a let down. Such a boring and repetitive game. Trudging through the same alleyways and strip of coast line again and again and again. Every now and again the game would sideswipe you with trudging through the same alleyways BUT AT NIGHT!!!!
    Also it kept me playing by tricking me into thinking their was going to be a massive war with the Horny men. Alas when it all came to a climax I found myself running through the same alleyways fighting slightly different enemies. And why oh why did the magician at the end turn into a massive fu@*ing monster and try to kill me?? I was bloody helping him!! what a load of tosh. All that topped off with an abysmal trade-in price due to a unique one time code for an awefull suite of Armour. Thanks but no thanks DA3.
    Edited by 2 at 14/06/11 @ 09:07

  • midnight_walker #14 8 months ago

    "We lost fans because we dumbed down Dragon Age II, but maybe dumbing down Mass Effect will GAIN us fans?! Surely it's worth a shot?"

  • gregski #15 8 months ago

    Well, their effort will be probably pointless, as The Witcher 3 will come out after DA3 and own them again.

  • suicidal_penguins #16 8 months ago

    "Innovate"? Strange choice of word there to describe formulaic and simple.

  • Cronan #17 8 months ago

    Very simple guys. Next time don't shit a sequel out in half the time it should have taken to make it, and don't insult your fans by skimping on the graphical content and re-using areas. Or was that your idea of "innovation"?

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #18 8 months ago

    You can't keep chopping and changing with a series like this though. You no doubt lost a lot of people just from the reviews and demos of DA2 and if they haven't played DA2 it's possible they won't now pick up DA3 regardless of how you change it.

    You should never have tried to target a broader audience in the first place. There's a large enough RPG audience that you could have continued to tap into.

  • FanBoysSuck #19 8 months ago

    "we lost some fans...They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd done"

    Noooo you lost some fans because you used the same small set of environments over and over again without even bothering to change the overhead map.

    Don't even get me started on the magically spawning enemies, destroying any tactical depth the game had.

  • RickHard #20 8 months ago

    You sure did ! Enjoying Witcher 2 right now and looking forward to Skyrim. Cannot care any less about DragnonAge 3...

  • abigsmurf #21 8 months ago

    The mistake is thinking that you can appeal to 'mainstream gamers' with an orcs and elves fantasy game.

    The Baldur's gate series sold just as much as Dragon Age 1 and 2 (as of 2006) and that was a game only released on a single platform, at a time when the gaming market was far smaller.

  • abelardie #22 8 months ago

    Remember when this series was supposed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate?

    Imoen would be spinning in her grave.

  • hiddenranbir #23 8 months ago

    Wtf did they 'innovate' ?

  • gribb #24 8 months ago

    Would game sites stop asking BioWare if they're going to 'do' multiplayer. You're giving them ideas!

  • hiddenranbir #25 8 months ago

    How is multi-player something to consider. They're already doing it in that pretend MMO called SWTOR!

  • Makeem95 #26 8 months ago

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
    No pre-order this time Bioware, I'll give it plenty of time to see the DA3 reviews before considering a purchase.

  • obscured021 #27 8 months ago

    Dragon age was way better, why did they remove the top down from DA2 lazeyness I guess, thats what happens when you dumb down games you lose fans, look at flash point it plays like COD muck. I dont know if people are getting dumber but the game studios seem to think so!

  • Inmediasress #28 8 months ago

    That's an understatement!
    More like 90% of your previous origins fanbase but you won a few console people.
    Anyway didn't they consider multiplayer for ME3 too???? Maybe they should try that since it's a shooter now anyway.
    Multiplayer can only be tacked on if they make it a hack&slash since da2 basically is one I guess da3 will be more of diablo clone.
    Of course there is Tor which will also sink to the bottom probably that's why they didn't release it yet, they are afraid.
    Origins was something for old school people they shouldn't have tried to mess that up, mass effect atleast started out like a modern take on scifi and shooting rpg mixture.
    I won't believe a word from them until they revert back to non voiced protagonsit and tatctical camera until then I couldn't care less for dragon effect 3.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/11 @ 09:41

  • systems #29 8 months ago

    I don't know that many people who even bothered with DA2, and not all particularly enjoyed DA. I was expecting a modern BG and got a repetitive tactical combat game with some dialogue. It was more like the console version of BG I guess.

  • geeza2020 #30 8 months ago

    It'll be a cold day in hell when I buy another Dragon Age sequel after playing through that turd EA and Bioware squeezed out; DA2. I dont think I've been let down so much by a game since FF8 came out and I was expecting a sequel to 7 and got a bunch of new rubbish characters instead (I didnt know at the time that the stories in FF dont link up). Poor inventory system, poor combat, poor graphics, poor story and poor characters. So overall a poor game, anybody who agree's would have to be a mug to buy DA3.

  • Anciegher #31 8 months ago

    I was super disappointed in DA2. Such a let-down. :( It was the first bioware game I didn't even bother to finish, it was too boring and repetetive for me. I even pre-ordered the game for PC to support the platform I love....

    I've lost a lot of faith in Bioware and the way TOR is shaping up I'm scared Bioware has grown too big, too corporate and lost it's touch.

  • nuanimal #32 8 months ago

    Change is not always innovation.

  • Stuz359 #33 8 months ago

    Dragon Age 2 was a little disappointing , but it wasn't a bad game and I did enjoy it. The side missions were bad, but then, so were Mass Effects and some people consider that far superior to it's sequel.
    The real disappointment for me is that it never seemed to get going, I always think of RPG's as games you can explore, but this seemed so limited in scope.
    Not bad as they turned it out in 18 months, but take a bit more time over it next time.

  • Fidjit #34 8 months ago

    EG gave this 8/10 & DA1 6/10? Now I'm really confused.

  • BloodSaint #35 8 months ago

    Damn rite you will listen to my feedback EA!

  • Inmediasress #36 8 months ago

    @Fidjit

    EG is one of the msot biased game sites I have seen and of course they seem to comply with every pressured review from big publishers.

  • DanForinton #37 8 months ago

    "Many fans complained at the re-use of environments and the single city setting of Kirkwall."

    These two complaints are linked - one of the most common gripes was that Kirkwall never changes, presumably because it would have required spending more time on artwork rather than shovelling the game out the door as fast as possible.
    Between the blatantly cynical cash-in nature of DA2 and "fine-tuning" of the Mass Effect games, I'm not going to be pre-ordering ME3 until I've seen some honest appraisals of it and if I have to wait until some proper reviews roll in, so be it.
    And DA3 can get stuffed - they've killed any interest I had in the series.

  • Max_Powers #38 8 months ago

    I didn't like DA2 because I don't like my fantasy games to be brown and grey

  • butler` #39 8 months ago

    Nout much wrong with the combat. Quite a bit wrong with the story. But as everyone else seems to agree, the widespread re-use of environments is an abosolute joke in an AAA title.

    The randomly spawning foes out of thin air was an interesting design decision as well.

    For me, the end result was a game that just reeked of budget cuts.

  • Softie2k #40 8 months ago

    Wasn't Dragon Age supposed to be BG3?

  • chub #41 8 months ago

    "Ray [Muzyka] and Greg [Zeschuk] have built a long career being close to their fanbase and understanding what they want."

    Really? Not understanding very well then.

    Please put the RPG back into your RPGs.

  • thefinn #42 8 months ago

    "EG gave this 8/10 & DA1 6/10? Now I'm really confused."

    The 6/10 for DA 1 was for the 360 version (I don't think the PS3 version was reviewed, but it would probably have gotten a similar score). The PC version of Origins got an 8.

  • misho8723 #43 8 months ago

    DA: Origin was a great game. I played just the demo of DA2, and..well.. never again, please. "Innovation" means reduction? .. How a modern hard RPG adventure should look like showed us CD Projekt RED with Witcher 2.. man, even Witcher 1 is miles ahead of DA2

  • neems #44 8 months ago

    I'm curious, are there any fantasy games that are actually, you know, fantastical? Much as I enjoyed The Witcher 2 it is still on the grim and gritty side of things (shits all over the Dragon Age games though).

    It would be nice to play an RPG (or anything really) with genuine imagination and a sense of wonder. Of course you could say the same thing about fantasy literature.

  • panathatube #45 8 months ago

    Well u have lost quite a lot of of fans. Skyrim and Witcher 2 make DA 2 look like crap. The problem is not just behind the dated recycled graphics and the spartan package; the most crucial element, the gameplay is also dated. 1,5 year production circle does not work.

  • Phishfood #46 8 months ago

    I'm sure every single person in the development team could tell that using the same dungeons over and over again was a real cheap move, and it wasn't going to fool anybody.

    I can only imagine the higher ups thought they could widen their profit margin by doing less work.

  • anomagnus #47 8 months ago

    As always, the hate brigade out in full force. Having played both the Witcher2 and DA2, there’s very little to separate them. Combat in both, especially end game, is the same. Setting wise, I take the unchanging city of Kirkwall, vs the very small environments of the witcher, and no one really wins.

    Regarding story, though, I just liked the characters better in DA2. In the Witcher, the only character I liked, in either path, was Vernon roach (in one of the best VO jobs in games history). But every other character, including (almost especially) Geralt was bland to the point of blankness (and the VO for triss, in the prologue in particular, was terrible).

    The political setting vs. the Qun was, for me, amazing. I loved the inescapable fate i knew was coming, no matter what I did. My choice at the end of the game, as to what to do with one party member, even when I knew he was going to cross the line was incredibly difficult. This was one of the few games I’ve had to make a choice, which I knew went beyond the key story. This character was an integral part of my quartet, and by removing him, I was severally hampering myself until he could be replaced.

    I contrast this with the Witchers choice, Vernon or Ivoeth, and it was never a competition. I only picked Ivoerth the second time just to compelte the second path, but never felt a resonance. But I know these are personal choices, and so some people will disagree. The ending part of the Witcher was also massively disappointing. I was expecting so much from my meeting with Letho. Only to find out what the spectral hunt actually was. Talk about a letdown. I won’t spoil it, but not only is it a letdown, but the stunning leap of logic that geralt uses to come to his conclusion comes out of nowhere. I chose not to fight, just because I no longer felt like I cared.

    From a technical point of view, the witcher has it, but overall, from a fun perspective, from a likeability perspective, I find it difficult to consider going back to the dull, small world of the witcher.

    At the same time though, I find it ridiculous the over top hate for DA2, which has very little to do with the game, and more to do with the imagined superiority some rpg fans seem to have. I only need to look at comments about dumbing down to see that.

  • coomber #48 8 months ago

    Message to EA: It's not just changing the game that pissed people off. I won't buy DA2 since you decided you had to pre-order it a minimum of ten weeks in advance to get the full game.

  • RedSparrows #49 8 months ago

    'EG is one of the msot biased game sites I have seen and of course they seem to comply with every pressured review from big publishers. '

    What, like the 6/10 they gave to the first DA, as referenced by the poster above?

    Your use of the word 'biased' is charming in its simplicity too.

  • WinterSnowblind #50 8 months ago

    @panathatube
    I was disappointed with DA2, but how can you say it looks bad compared to Skyrim, which isn't even out? Especially when Oblivion is perhaps the worst case of a game being dumbed down for the masses since Deus Ex 2.

  • Daeltaja #51 8 months ago

    Innovative? Oh yes, I played a different Dragon Age 2.

    Still really enjoyed it mind, but the recycled areas and single city setting were incredibly poor design, no matter what way you shake it. It was rushed out the door. Simple as.

  • Crea #52 8 months ago

    This 'streamlining' process devs keep trying to broaden their franchises appeal DOESN'T WORK. It can be successful from a creative point of view - most people seemed to agree that ME2 was a better game than ME1. But sales were no better than ME1 (slight increase on 360, slight decrease on the PC). DA2 sold worse than DA1.

    Fable is another series that attempts to 'streamline'. Result? Fable 3 sold worse than Fable 2.

    Why? Because RPGs as a genre are bought by people who LIKE RPGs. Removing the RPG-ness doesn't attract many new people. The setting and the genre are enough to put non-afficionados off, not whether or not you have an inventory. To put it another way, I will never buy a racing game, no matter what a developr removes or adds to try and tempt me. Not interested.

    No coincidence that Bethesda reign in the console RPG charts, having never broken the magic formula of their games since Morrowind.

  • Calundann #53 8 months ago

    @Makeem95, #27
    Personally I am waiting for a Dragon Age 3, 75% sale on Steam...

  • evarofzentral #54 8 months ago

    I really enjoyed DA2, probably more than DA:o. Having said that I felt the writing and voice acting was not as good as in the first game and the ending was a bit of an anti-climax. The gameplay and quests were overall improved and although I did like the setting I did miss the variety of DA:o, especially Orzammar.

  • Caimbeul #55 8 months ago

    Just make DA3 like DA1 but with good voice acting, good animation and stunning DX11 PC graphics not some shitty console port like they have all been so far (no offence to console owners - i am one myself)

  • MrChuckles #56 8 months ago

    The multiplayer addition is so that it isn't solely a single player play once story. Again, it's retail and second hand sales that are forcing story based games down this avenue to try and combat the 2nd hand market.

  • lavalant #57 8 months ago

    Thought they'd have the common sense read the feedback before they released it, their forums were buzzing with anit DA2 posts, but like everything they chose to ignore in favour of potential increased sales.

  • Gastrian #58 8 months ago

    The problem I have with DA2 and Fable 3 is that they've gone too far down the "heroric" route without actually knowing what's heroic. In BG 1 you could get killed by a bloody Kobold in the earlier levels but by the time you level capped you were taking on giants with relative ease, that level of progression makes your heroic achievement seem real, that you've actually accomplished something but in DA2 and Fable 3 your character is so overpowered it makes combat seem pointless, your level 1 Hawke kills an orge and more hurlocks in the tutorial than your Grey Warden did a few hours into the game and with fewer companions. The games didn't make you feel like a hero they made you feel like a bully, you could start any fight you wanted and the opposition stood no chance. It sounds silly but the RPGs coming from the big studios have too much carrot and not enough stick.

  • Tryhard #59 8 months ago

    I played it,completed it.And cannot rememeber a thing about it.

  • Sar #60 8 months ago

    Why don't they go back to making PROPER RPGs, y'know, like Baldur's Gate?

    That was the last time they were truly excellent, and catered to their RPG fans. Everything since has been gradually dumbed down and watered down for the console crowds.

  • HyperTails #61 8 months ago

    I love Dragon Age 2. I thought that the characters were great. I loved Kirkwall. I liked the villains. I liked the story. I loved the combat as a mage. I loved that Leliana is back.

    I can see why people didn't like it though. I hated the recycled environments, for example. I hated that the only High Dragon in the game was in a side quest. I hated that the loot system was crap.

    But, I still loved it. Not as much as Origins, which is actually my favourite game ever, but loved it nonthe less. I even bought the lithographs and t-shirts off the BioWare store.

    But where's the DLC, BioWare? Varric says that they all seperate, except for Hawke and his/her romanced companion. A full blown Awakening style expansion that explains what led up to them leaving Kirkwall and splitting up would be brilliant.

    Please don't jump into Dragon Age 3 and forget about this game. Its sold well. DLC will sell. Those that like it like it, and there are a lot of us. I know that, like me saying I like Homefront, this post will get me negged for liking something, but dear God, if you don't like it, don't play it.

  • juche #62 8 months ago

    Multiplayer? What?? Why??

  • Rack #63 8 months ago

    Umm, EA are going to take on-board criticism? Not Bioware? How about this one then? "Stop experimenting on the Golden Goose, just leave it to lay those golden eggs."

  • Rack #64 8 months ago

    Oh and Caimbeul? Say no to "stunning DX11 graphics" because there's an insane amount of effort needed to get those. That means much less dialogue, variety of locations, complex RPG systems and all the things RPG fans want. If you want 14th generation voxotrop mapping more than gameplay I recommend "Brown shooter 17"

  • Raiftel #65 8 months ago

    Count me in on liking Dragon Age 2 as well. It had issues, but I really enjoyed the story and style of the thing. The problem is that because the game put the hardcore RPG gamers nose out of joint I think any attempt to gain feedback from them is going to be along the lines of "Argh! FUCK YOU. You're the Devil!".

    As evidenced by this thread.

  • HyperTails #66 8 months ago

    @Crea: "No coincidence that Bethesda reign in the console RPG charts, having never broken the magic formula of their games since Morrowind"

    Hate to break it to you, but at E3 Bethesda said that they have streamlined Skyrim to make it more accessable to non-Elder Scrolls fans.

  • kangarootoo #67 8 months ago

    "lead designer Mike Laidlaw said the developer had "ideas""

    A game developer, with ideas, in my lifetime. I can barely contain my excitement... but I managed.


    I too thought it was puzzling that they talked as if combat and story telling were the major gripes among gamers. Discussions on those subjects are to be had, no doubt. But I think CTRL-C CTRL-V level design is the more pressing issue.

  • boyscout #68 8 months ago

    i didnt like it. and according to the reviews im really out of touch with what is good.

  • Kaminari #69 8 months ago

    This was no Game of Thrones for sure. And this was just not worthy of BioWare.

  • thiagots85 #70 8 months ago

    Dragon Age: Origins = Masterpiece... made me enjoy everything from the game
    Dragon Age 2 = just another game

    reminds me of...

    Mass Effect = Masterpiece ... made me enjoy everything from the game
    Mass Effect 2 = just another game... pretty cool tho

    at least (leaving Bioware)

    Crysis 1/ Warhead= good game, excellent visuals, somethings to remember
    Crysis 2 = very good game, good visuals, story has a little more to remember... and forget (I'm looking at the end of the game)... same level as the first

    Dead Space = meh
    Dead Space Extraction= WoW
    Dead Space 2 = still to be played.... not so soon

    Bad Company = WoW... LOVEDIT
    Bad Company 2 = yeah, just another CoD game (SP related)


    and then "(...)And frankly it's something that if done, has to be done really well(...)"
    Don't effing do it, or you'll kill what is already dying =D


    yeah, EA... keep on going....Don't you dare mess with Mirror's Edge and screw that up
    I've fired only 5 shots, punk!
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/11 @ 14:38

  • Darren #71 8 months ago

    Dear BioWare,

    Please make Dragon Age III less boring in its story-telling, less repetitive level design-wise and stop dumbing it down (the lack of party customisation and multiple camera angles for example); just make the third game more like Origins. Thanks.

    Love Darren XXX

  • sabbede #72 8 months ago

    I think that between the lines they're almost realizing that DA2 was a huge mistake. Or at least some of them are. Sounds like the EA douche is, unsurprisingly, beyond understanding their error but there is an undercurrent that suggests maybe BioWare knows they fucked up royal.
    @Platinum makes a good point - one I've been behind for a while - that they should split the IP if they want to do crap like this. Have an Origins series that's a proper RPG and a separate action RPG franchise for people who don't like good games.

    EA's surprise acquisition of BioWare was probably the worst thing to happen in gaming since ET on the Atari.

    P.S. Anomagnus, you're an idiot. And even the swamps in The Witcher 2 were bigger than Kirkwall.
    They tried to turn DA into something like TW. A move that should never have been made.

  • sabbede #73 8 months ago

    @Tryhard
    That's a psychological defense mechanism - your mind rejecting a traumatic event.

  • Murton #74 8 months ago

    If fan feedback is going to be listened to then I say we start a grassroots campaign to hand the entire franchise to Obsidian so we can get a proper RPG and not another "mash X until level up" action adventure as Bioware delivered with DA2.

  • Gastrian #75 8 months ago

    @HyperTails

    Streamlining and accesability themselves are nothing bad its their implementation that's an issue. A lot of "core" concepts are there only because of technological limitations or inexperience ( the medium, not the designers). Things like lives in games exist because it was a workaround for no save states, turn based combat exists because realtime battles were too taxing on hardware. There is no reason for these too exist in modern gaming other than the fact they are gaming conventions and we are too attached to them.

    Its because of companies like Bioware and Lionhead who equate dumbing down with being more accessible that we automatically assume all companies do that and we forget that companies do get it right. Relic's removal of basebuilding from the Dawn of War template, while controversial, made the game more intuitive and accessible without running it down. Blazblue's assigning of the special moves to the D-Pad has simplified the game and made it more accessible yet its still regarded as one of the most tactical competition fighters while Mortal Kombat sticks with the less intuitive button combinations but will only be regarded as a bit of fun because it lacks the tactical depth of other fighters.

  • Sledgehamster #76 8 months ago

    I've not been able to finish it, just can't bring myself to play the mess that it is.

    "Press a button and something awesome happens"..only time I ever experienced this was when I hit the button marked "quit".

  • Rack #77 8 months ago

    @Gastrian. There's a lot of wrong there, an awful lot. Turn based games were hardly made redundant by the capability to do games in real time, any more than films made football obsolete. Turn based games are about strategy and tactics, real time about who can click their mouse the fastest. Lives also make for a very different experience to save states, with save states you don't need skill, just one lucky go. With lives consistency is key, to progress you have to learn the game. It's true that depth and accessibility don't run wholly counter to each-other, but the ideal of easy to play, hard to master is a tricky beast indeed.

  • sh4dow83 #78 8 months ago

    "some" fans?! man, companies really try to bullshit people wherever they can. and many probably really are reading this, think "oh? they lost some? well, that was to be expected".

    here's what "some" are:
    dragon age origins: 3.72M units sold
    dragon age II: 1.38M units sold
    (source: vgchartz.com)

    "some", my ass! also raises the question: why did i have to look for this information myself and post it in the comments? it should be the job of eurogamer's reporters to check whether companies are delivering facts or bullshit.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/11 @ 23:50

  • Fubdub #79 8 months ago

    DA:o was vaguely reminiscent of the greatness of the old great RPGs og the 90s, Baldur's Gate, etc. I had hoped that DA2 would build on that and move even closer. Instead they removed the somewhat interesting gameplay and replaced it with 3rd person action hack and slash... I just couldn't be bothered, and I think the franchise is dead for me.

    We'll have to see how Bethesda will do with Skyrim, they sadly seem to be going in the same direction. Oblivion was worse than Morrowind, and sadly Skyrim seems to be following the downward spiral.

    I wish someone out there would realise that there actually is an audience for a proper RPG with stats, etc (I can imagine it's hard for some marketing suit to believe it, but some of us actually find that stuff fun) and would leave the formula alone, or at least work on it from the premise that it's not broken.

  • Murton #80 8 months ago

    "We'll have to see how Bethesda will do with Skyrim, they sadly seem to be going in the same direction. Oblivion was worse than Morrowind, and sadly Skyrim seems to be following the downward spiral."

    We already know that's there less skills which means less customisation, we also know that there's less stat management as levelling up allows you to directly increase your HP/SP/MP rather than having to engineer the changes through managing your STR/END/AGI/INT/WIS stats. Since Todd Howard became exec producer we've seen a steady dumbing down of all Bethesda developed games, shame really as they, like Bioware, used to be the kings of the RPG genre and now the throne just sits vacant waiting for someone to step up. Hopefully Obsidian's own IPs currently in development will see them take their rightful place as the genre leader, given that they're the only guys still interested in creating a rich and deep RPG experience.

    Personally I'm looking forward to the actual action RPGs this year, the supposed core RPGs have turned out to be little more than action adventure RPG pretenders, at least the likes of Dungeon Siege and LOTR War in the North know exactly what they are and therefore shouldn't disappoint when it comes to depth.

  • Gunship #81 8 months ago

    They're "listening" and Mike Laidlaw is STILL lead designer. This guy should be sent off to do Jade Empire 2 (he did JE1, which I thought was barely passable). He honestly has no fucking clue what made Origins an awesome RPG - read any of his posts on the BioWare forums - this man HATES DA1 and all the thinking behind it. His heart is in ACTION games. He's still not even HINTING that EA put him up to all the DA2 "innovation" that turned millions of BioWare's biggest fans into its biggest haters . His input into DA:o was the console ports - and they were totally, and utterly, shit. When he steps away from DA, I'll be interested in the franchise again.

  • Wizard83 #82 8 months ago

    The diluting of this and Mass Effect is a bloody crime but i'm invested in Shepard, i've spent endless hours shaping him and now i have to know how the story ends so whatever they do to ME3 i will buy it.

    DA3 though is in no such position! I couldnt care less about Hawke and as for the "troubles" that unavoidably happen at the end of DA2... i don't care. Neither side deserves my help or support and all my companies (save Varric) can go spit as none of them have the personality of Shale or Morrigan! Hell i almost missed that idiot Olgren!!