BBC Radio debates child gaming habits

By Robert Purchese Published 26 May, 2011

MP Keith Vaz takes on GamersVoice.

MP Keith Vaz and independent pressure group GamersVoice have been debating, on UK national radio, the amount of time children spend playing video games.

The BBC Radio Three show, hosted by Ben Jackson, began with some choice quotes from unnamed members of the public.

"When parents are letting their children play video games for obviously a length of time, I personally think you're going to ruin that kid's social skills and obviously the ability to obviously to go out there and make conversation, because you're not learning anything playing a computer game are ya?" reasoned one man.

"When I was a kid," began an older man, "we used to be out and about, but nowadays they just sit in front of a telly and play video games. I don't think it does the child any good."

The third and final vox pop offered a slightly different viewpoint: "As long as they [the parents] regulate the time and they [the kids] do get a balance: a mixture of playing outside and playing [video] games and they have done all the chores and they don't take the Michael and sit on it all day."

Jackson opened the debate proper with Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East. Vaz urged "concern".

"The research that we've had so far indicates that over a period of time there is a worry that people, young children, are spending too much time on the internet and playing these games," he said.

"The internet can be used as a force for good and video games can provide the opportunity for people, young people to be able enjoy themselves. But the concern is the length of time they are spending on the internet and playing video games and also, and perhaps more importantly, the fact that those video games that have adult content are being seen by those under the age of 18."

"The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games as if they were the Holy Grail of entertainment."

Keith Vaz

"I cite as my evidence a Mr Miyamoto, the creator of one of the greatest video games ever - Super Mario," Vaz added, "who suggested in an article in The Times on 22nd April that young people should drop their joypads and venture out into the sunlight once in a while. If someone like that can say it then it is something that we need to be concerned about."

Vaz revealed that his two teenage children have game consoles "and I'm constantly telling my son to come off of his machine". "But it is a bit of a battle and one doesn't want to upset one's children," he said, "especially when they're teenagers ha ha ha ha."

Vaz touted research done by an academic in Essex - not Joey Essex I hope - that "there was a big difference in the fitness of young people around about 10 years of age" now compared to in 2008. Fitness has declined by 27 per cent, said Vaz. What's more, "arm strength" has fallen by 26 per cent and "grip strength" by 7 per cent.

"So these are concerns. That's what I'm saying," continued Vaz.

"The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games as if they were the Holy Grail of entertainment. But we need to have a proper sensible debate to recognise that we should be concerned about content and the length of time [children spend playing]."

Paul Gibson, chairman of GamersVoice, acknowledged that "clearly" there has to be a balance. "We're certainly not going to advocate that you should sit your child down in front of their PlayStation or their Xbox and leave them to it as it were. It's about responsible parenting at the end of the day," he said.

The debate then moved on to age ratings, and how parents should be better informed about what their children are buying and playing - just as Tanya Byron outlined in her Government-commissioned report in 2008.

Later this year, PEGI will take over from BBFC as the sole, legally enforced, age-ratings body for video games. Gibson said there will be an advertising campaign to ensure parents know what's going on.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (60) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Bahumet #1 1 year ago

    Knowing how humourless he is, he probably really said "ha ha ha ha".

  • emhaslam92 #2 1 year ago

    Weird. I would have thought grip strength would have improved.

  • darkmorgado #3 1 year ago

    At the end of the day, Keith Vaz is a corrupt politician that constantly shows himself up to be a fool. He shouldn't be given any air time on anything.

  • mingster #4 1 year ago

    Wont somebody think of the children ....

  • whizzedout #5 1 year ago

    That man Keith Vaz, always blaiming videogames for violence and rudeness and the outright corruption of children, he really needs to just STFU and GTFO before I put a cap in that fools ass and BOOM HEADSHOT!. From a very disgruntled 8 year old.
    Edited by whizzedout at 26/05/11 @ 12:45

  • joelstinton #6 1 year ago

    Its just striking a balance and " As long as they [the parents] regulate the time and they [the kids] do get a balance: a mixture of playing outside and playing [video] games and they have done all the chores and they don't take the Michael and sit on it all day" is a about right i think.

    Problem is, that both parents have to work just to pay the bills, and put food on the table. I'm not saying its right, but alot of the time, the last thing parents want to do after work is go outside with the kids and take them places, be it a park, a zoo, or a museam. Its more a fault of society rather than kids watching too much tv, or playing too much games.

  • X201 #7 1 year ago

    "The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games"

    No, we go berserk when ill informed idiots like Mr Vaz, trot out the same stereotypes, fallacies and dodgy surveys.

  • actionfitz #8 1 year ago

    "BBC Radio debates child gaming habits...
    Hmm... interested...

    "Keith Vaz"...
    Stopped reading.

  • Stratix #9 1 year ago

    Obviously spending lots of obvious time can have an obvious effect on your obvious social skills. So do tell me, what was it that ruined yours? Obviously your vocabulary could do with a bit of work.

  • coojam #10 1 year ago

    I hate to say it, but once again Vaz is speaking a lot of sense here. I look forward to the debate and hope Gamers' Voice don't go in and make us all look like idiots.

  • spekkeh #11 1 year ago

    What's more, "arm strength" has fallen by 26 per cent and "grip strength" by 7 per cent.

    Teenagers of today spending all their time holed up indoors playing videogames, why in my time we spent all of our time holed up indoors wanking. Much more healthy.

  • X201 #12 1 year ago

    Text says Radio 3
    Link says Radio Leicester

    Seeing as Vaz's constituency is the later, and I don't think Radio 3 has chavved it up enough to have a phone-in, I'll go with BBC Radio Leicester

  • Kmfrob #13 1 year ago

    Hmmm well as the article says, it's just about finding the right balance.

    I love games and they are a major part of my life (and job), but I do agree that kids need to spend some of their free time out and about playing with other kids in real life.

    When I was a wee lad, I still had my SNES and Megadrive e.t.c. but these were what we would play on if it was raining outside or after we'd finished playing outside. After school, the first priority for me was to get a game of footy going with the kids on my street. Now i'm not saying I'm some great example to follow, but I definitely think it helped me in my development.

    I think the major issue though is that a lot of parents nowadays are so paranoid about their kids getting involved in some gang or being abducted or something that they are the ones that are stopping this from happening.

  • bratmandu #14 1 year ago

    An Essex academic? Does. Not. Compute. Here's a thought, I'll send the kids out into the streets to play when the govt stops letting criminals and paedos out of jail early to save on prison costs, reducing police funding, and when they stop permitting the marketing of alcopops clearly aimed at getting kids bolloxed.

  • Stuz359 #15 1 year ago

    Parents barely let their kids out of the front door these days. The Daily Mail has convinced them everyone bloke over 20 is a paedophile.

  • rudedudejude #16 1 year ago

    PARENTING FFS.

    The method of the problem (playing games) is not the cause, the cause is shite parenting.

    It's exactly the same as sitting your kids down in front of CBBC for 4 hours. Shit parenting. It's the easy option, gaming, tv, movies, whatever the method, the cause is parents with no time to actually parent their kids properly due to laziness / commitments / work / whatever that may be.

    We don't ban kids tv now do we?

    As for the age ratings, again, PARENTING. The ratings and legislation are there and work fine, it's bad parenting that buys their kids the games of willingly lets them play them.

    Someone please just take a camera phone to MW3 launch and film all the parents buying it for their little kids, end of argument.

  • FireMonkey #17 1 year ago

    @emhaslam92 - "Weird. I would have thought grip strength would have improved."

    You don't grip controllers with that much force though. Not compared to gripping onto the branches of trees.

    The whole argument about 'in my day we were all playing outside, now they are all stuck indoors' annoys me a little.
    Where is safe now for kids to play outside. We used to play in the nearby woodlands, fields and quite streets. Now though the woodlands and fields have been developed on and the quite streets are now much, much busier. The kids that do venture out end up getting complained about by lots of people for hanging around on street corners and around the shops. Where do these people really expect the kids to go?

  • laurence83 #18 1 year ago

    Seems Keith Vaz has come to some sense since his kids have grown up, played video games, and haven't completely turned into raging zombies. He's completely right in everything he says....It's up to parents to be decent parents....Violent material should definitely be kept away from young children (although I rather suspect real violence is much more likely to cause harm to a child rather than media)....and in the end, video games are something fun, that enjoyed in moderation, do no harm. TV had exactly the same levelled at it. The problem is not video games, it's parents....

  • arcam #19 1 year ago

    The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games as if they were the Holy Grail of entertainment.

    Heh, well he got one bit right.

  • bad09 #20 1 year ago

    I don't klnow about the rest of the country but in London kids in groups are the devil incarnate, police harrass them and people with nothing in their lives take time out of their busy non-lives to complain about them noisy animals, there's nothing for them to do so why on earth would kids WANT to go outside these days?

    Besides the "in my day" bollocks is just nonsense, with todays technology the kids probably interact with MORE people than we did when we were young 'uns!

    Finally, Kieth Vaz. Of all the slime ridden corrupt politicans that infect our "democracy" why give that tosser more air time?
    Edited by bad09 at 26/05/11 @ 13:07

  • madgerald Verified Studio Head of PR & Marketing, Colossal Games LTD #21 1 year ago

    I don't know how parents can be more informed than a big fucking sticker on the box stating that it is 18 rated. And in red too.

    Do we need to start putting horrific pictures of videogame victims on packaging like they do with ciggies?

  • adzengland #22 1 year ago

    If it were up to Vaz we'd be all running around the streets with those hoops on a stick

  • X201 #23 1 year ago

    Here's link to Guardian article on The health claims Vaz made.
    [link url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/21/children-weaker-computers-replace-activity
    ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/m...[/link]

    I'm trying to find the actual report, to find methodology.
    Sample size was 300.

  • Jolly_Armadillo #24 1 year ago

    *goes berserk*

  • M_of_the_sys #25 1 year ago

    "you're not learning anything playing a computer game are ya?"

  • butler` #26 1 year ago

    I'm not going to bother looking into it, but I'd bet my both my consoles on reliability issues surrounding the "big difference in the fitness of young people around about 10 years of age" study.

    (Disclaimer: I'm in full support of any dialogue and scientific research surrounding kids playing too many video games.)

  • potter73 #27 1 year ago

    Bored of this already, especially the section

    'Vaz revealed that his two teenage children have game consoles "and I'm constantly telling my son to come off of his machine". "But it is a bit of a battle and one doesn't want to upset one's children," he said, "especially when they're teenagers ha ha ha ha." '

    This is nothing new.....my parents used to say the exact same thing to me back in the '80s when I would spend pretty much all my time on my C64 (which was definately anti-social, as there was no online gaming)

    20+ years later , I find myself with a good job (in IT, feel kind of smug about that as Parents also thought work in IT was nothing more than a pipe dream), nice house, understanding wife and great social life......and I'm still gaming.

    Sure, encourage a healthy balance of 'outdoor activity' and 'gaming'...but let kids also find their own balance, especially something as trivial as video gaming (ie there are bigger more damaing pasttimes that your kids could be undertaking) and make parents more aware of video game classification.

  • rob_of_the_robots #28 1 year ago

    But thumb strength has increased by 50%. Win!

  • arcam #29 1 year ago

    I'm not going to bother looking into it, but I'd bet my both my consoles on reliability issues surrounding the "big difference in the fitness of young people around about 10 years of age" study

    Why? It was published in a well-respected, peer reviewed journal of paediatrics.

    We've got to stop dismissing evidence just because we don't like the conclusions.

  • AliRay #30 1 year ago

    I'm glad to see they finally used my data on 10 year olds' grip strength.

  • LazyNinjaUk #31 1 year ago

    As a kid I would say I had a well balanced division of my time between gaming and playing outside with my mates, but when I was a kid there wasn't a 70% chance of being stabbed, raped or abducted when you played outside.

    Also it's easy for parents to say "go and play football or something", well what if you and your mates aren't into football or roller hockey, what are you supposed to do? Stand outside and do fuck all? That's what they do round my local council estates, and now you only go round there if you want to score some smack.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #32 1 year ago

    I reckon grip strength depletion is due to more estrogen in the water supply, add to that readily available porn causing a desensitized reaction resulting in less wanking.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!

    To be fair, they have a small point, some kids/grownups do take the piss on their games machines. But then again thats their problem!

  • DiamondIce #33 1 year ago

    Re 18-rated games:

    Someone mentioned in the L.A. Noire thread that they saw a mother buy the game for their child. I did play Mortal Kombat 2 when I was 14 but the context of L.A. Noire is a bit different. I hope she has to answer a few choice questions when her son asks her about semen stained knickers.

    Edited by DiamondIce at 26/05/11 @ 13:30

  • Toothball #34 1 year ago

    "When I was a kid," began an older man, "we used to be out and about, but nowadays they just sit in front of a telly and play video games. I don't think it does the child any good."

    You always see comments like this from older people, but it's difficult to compare growing up now and growing up, say, fifty years ago. So many things have changed in this time such as social attitudes, general standards of living, availability of media both educational and for entertainment. When this guy was a kid I would presume that going outside was the main activity as there weren't as many alternatives such as TV and the internet. At the same time, I'd expect that there were some kids more interested in staying inside and reading or other indoor activities that don't involve as much physical exertion. Probably not as many as at present though.

    These days you also have the issue of young parents who may not have the time or inclination to raise a child in a comparable way to parents of several decades ago. At this stage the parents probably spent a lot of their own childhood watching TV, gaming and less time outside. So when their kids start doing the same they don't think twice about it.

    I didn't want to make this sound like another "It's all the parents' fault!" comment, although it's gone down there a bit. Parents should always take an active role in a child's development, but a lot of this simply arises because everything changes over time. A hundred years ago (or however long, I never did history), you'd probably be surprised to find a child receiving an education rather than being sent to work down a mine or somewhere. Now we're acting all surprised that some children prefer partake of the excess of luxuries available. There's a lot more going on than just some kids playing too many games.

  • dsmx #35 1 year ago

    Much like 50 years ago when the older generation then was moaning about rock music.

  • kinky_mong #36 1 year ago

    there was a big difference in the fitness of young people around about 10 years of age now compared to in 2008. Fitness has declined by 27 per cent, said Vaz. What's more, "arm strength" has fallen by 26 per cent and "grip strength" by 7 per cent.

    Simple solution, make sure 10 year olds are taking breaks from computer games to masturbate furiously.
    Edited by kinky_mong at 26/05/11 @ 15:21

  • butler` #37 1 year ago

    @It was published in a well-respected, peer reviewed journal of paediatrics

    And?

  • God_Octo #38 1 year ago

    I love the fact that everyone of his arguments can be countered by just saying- be more involved parents. It not like the games physically prevent children from getting up is it? And the fact that age rated material is getting into the hands of children speaks worse for parents then the games industry- when I was younger, everywhere was really strict on selling games with an age limit. The issue is parents just buying GTA for their 10 year old to shut them up.

    And I still think switching from the BBFC to PEGI is a bad idea. The BBFC ratings are already well known, and everyone knows what they mean, whilst the PEGI ones look nothing like any other rating system, have different age categories than BBFC and would be restricted to just the one medium. The fact that they have to have an ad campaign to tell people what they are just backs me up. They should have just changed the BBFC to deal with all games, just like how they do films.

  • Toothball #39 1 year ago

    @dsmx

    Exactly, kids are much more prone to exploring new things whatever the era. It can be quite difficult to express this to someone a generation or two removed. I was at home once playing a Gameboy when my Grandmother came round. I was about 20 or so at the time, but on seeing me playing she asked me when I was going to grow up. Admittedly I am still a big kid even now, but these days it's not out of the ordinary for grown ups to play games too. She came from a time where that sort of thing wasn't an option - not only with regards to games, but for an adult to spend time enjoying something that was perceived to be a childish activity.

    Admittedly, in the full story I was actually using two Gameboys at once to trade Pokemon with myself. It may not seem like the most grown up of activities, but you won't find many kids with enough gear to do that. Just one of the many perks of being a grown up gamer.
    Edited by Toothball at 26/05/11 @ 14:08

  • stegabba #40 1 year ago

    throughout history alot of kids have been little bastards even before television was invented so fuck off bbc
    Edited by stegabba at 26/05/11 @ 14:15

  • X201 #41 1 year ago

    @arcam
    "Why? It was published in a well-respected, peer reviewed journal of paediatrics."

    Pons and Fleischmann claimed to have evidence of cold fusion in their work that was published "in a well-respected, peer reviewed journal", the problem with this report is that it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.

    It was only published a month ago. We have no indication of method, sample representation, processes employed to avoid bias, the selection criteria of the children involved and - usually the most important one in studies like this - who bloody paid for it.

  • GozuTennai #42 1 year ago

    Ban all games for all children, not only because they increase the chances of said children becoming freaks and/or shut ins, but because all current gen games are mostly shit.

  • drhickman1983 #43 1 year ago

    I've been played games since 1986 and its never done me no harm to communcation and social skills.

  • Lemming81 #44 1 year ago

    What kind of 'debate' Has one side going on and on, and the other having a single quote?

  • steoconnell #45 1 year ago

    "The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games as if they were the Holy Grail of entertainment."

    He's actually right about something for a change. The second anyone criticises games for violence or whatever, all game sites go mad and Gamervoices starts crying.

    Film sites don't do this. There is no filmsvoice. Gaming sites need to lighten up.

  • RobotRocker #46 1 year ago

    "The problem with the gamers is that they go berserk any time anyone says anything about these video games as if they were the Holy Grail of entertainment."

    Completely correct. This sort of berserk button reaction to when anyone insults the form is appealing. Look at the reaction to Roger Ebert in the US when he said he didn't think videogames were art. He got some very intelligent replies from industry people and well balanced individuals but the bile spouted by a majority of people was appalling, simply because he disagreed (And gamers have a limited interpretation of what counts as 'artistic' anyway but thats another argument for another day).

    Vaz is still an awful person with the column inches in Private Eye to prove it. But he's correct in a lot of things in this debate.

  • the_merchant #47 1 year ago

    I think the main problem is a lack of education on the parent's part. The world has changed from when they were young and, while I'm not expecting them to change according to the way the world works now, I think its fair to expect them to at least try and learn about the world they currently live in. Video games are a part of that world, so before they shun it (the way they usually do) they need to properly learn about it first. Then shun it
    Edited by the_merchant at 26/05/11 @ 15:24

  • paulf #48 1 year ago

    so children didn't play computer games in 1998?

  • BigJonno #49 1 year ago

    It's great how, according to public and media perception, children are spending too much time indoors playing games and out terrorising the streets AT THE SAME TIME.

  • brinlarden #50 1 year ago

    i hate the argument of "they should be playin out side, bloody vidya games etc etc" look you old cuntfuck, back in your day, going out to plow the fields and wrestling bears was the shit that you did. now its either play games, use internet or go drink cheap cider in the school fields.

  • spekkeh #51 1 year ago

    @X201
    It was published in a well-respected, peer reviewed journal of paediatrics.
    (...)
    the problem with this report is that it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.
    It was only published a month ago

    Lolwat. Do you know how this stuff works? Anyway, this the article:

    Cohen, D.D., Voss, C., Taylor, M.J.D., Delextrat, A., Ogunleye, A.A. & Sandercock, G.R.H. (2011). Ten-year secular changes in muscular fitness in English children. Acta Paediatrica, EarlyView.

    They used a random sample from Essex-based school going teens and measured the things you see in the article. However they don't report on any demographical data, so it could just mean the neighbourhood went to shit in the meantime, although their findings are corroborated by other studies in different countries that more or less get the same results. However, I still think a preselect sample to maintain the same demographic would've been better than a random one.
    Edited by spekkeh at 26/05/11 @ 15:50

  • Mister-Wario #52 1 year ago

    After reading this article, it really just seems to come down to parents needing to be stricter. Encouraging their children to do lots of different activities, and restricting access to games that are unsuitable. It's not rocket science.

    I also think that gamers "go berserk" about criticism because it often seems to come from people with a basic understanding of, or knowledge about, the medium. A basic example is Keith Vaz's phrasing: "Super Mario: one of the greatest games ever". Um. Do you mean game series? Do you mean a specific title? A basic error but it just sounds a tad ignorant. An in-depth and knowledgeable examination of games, from someone who isn't a hardcore gamer or has a vested interest in them, is a hard thing to find.

  • coomber #53 1 year ago

    Vaz touted research done by an academic in Essex that "there was a big difference in the fitness of young people around about 10 years of age" now compared to in 2008. Fitness has declined by 27 per cent, said Vaz. What's more, "arm strength" has fallen by 26 per cent and "grip strength" by 7 per cent.

    And where is the evidence that provides a link between this and video games? There could be a list of sociological reasons as long as your (feeble) arm.

  • Architect_z #54 1 year ago

    Isnt it strange how they assume, that because kids play video games alot, they don't have time to go out aswell?
    I turned out ok. ^_^ (sort of)

  • bad09 #55 1 year ago

    "How about letting people live their own lives? "

    'ain't gonna hapen, we've had a nanny state in the UK telling us how to live our lives for while now and it's only gonna get worse.

  • FeralYouth #56 1 year ago

    Fitness has declined by 27 per cent, said Vaz. What's more, "arm strength" has fallen by 26 per cent and "grip strength" by 7 per cent.


    Masturbation is your friend.

  • Climhazzard #57 1 year ago

    I think Adam T from the first page is spot on with his assessment there. Bad parenting all round. I think MP's are determined to deny society as a whole is messed up and they are looking for things to blame this on.

    And as for it being unsociable, surely playing online with a group of people and chatting to them means you're still developing some social skills? I'd say i spent too much time as a kid playing games but it means i have a better understanding of them now and at the time i still went out a lot playing football and various other things. Why do people like Vaz have to be so prickish?

  • DarthMartious #58 1 year ago

    I wish a lot more of the kids around my way were at home playing video games, rather than congregating in gangs, drinking cheap cider, damaging property, intimidating old people, demanding cigarettes from casual passers by, fighting and screaming and shouting until the early hours of the fucking morning.

  • silversun #59 1 year ago

    If your an adult like myself then it our responsibility how much time we spend gaming , if your a child however i think the parent has a role to play to encourage children to study see friends and do other things they can gain enjoyment and life skills from.

    One big problems maybe for teenagers , im in late 20s now so i dont fall into this lot lol, in my view is the lack of things for them to do , there need be more stuff of intrest for teenagers maybe.

  • reeferchief #60 1 year ago

    Well, as a responsible parent, who takes care of what games my son and daughter get to see and what they don't and how much time they spend playing games. And also as someone who has played video games since the early 80's and through the Atari 2600 and Speccie +2 up to the current generations I think there's only one thing we can do.

    Go berserk and BLAME CANADA!

    In all honesty though, I'd rather have my kids playing video games, than hanging around in gangs on the streets, I'd rather have them putting their brains to use figuring out how to achieve things in games than being sat watching dumb hive minded cartoons and films.