Microsoft planning "AAA" Kinect shooter?
MGS Vancouver developing core title.
Microsoft Game Studios is working on a AAA shooter that uses the Kinect peripheral, if a developer resumé is to be believed.
According to a CV spotted on NeoGAF, MGS Vancouver art director Shawn Woods is currently working on "a core AAA shooter experience using Kinect."
A website for the recently established Canadian outpost studio states that it's "dedicated to making games for 'core' gamers. Our mission is to push the limits of proven and unexplored game development and show the world what's possible on Microsoft's game consoles."
We've asked Microsoft for comment and will update if it admits to anything.
About Fred Dutton
Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.
Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.
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Comments (49) Latest comment 1 year ago
Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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I'd love 'em to prove me wrong - give me a reason to actually turn mine on.
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From a personal perspective, I really fear for the future of the Xbox. I don't want to be playing shooters standing up flailing my arms around and I really can't see any scenario where my opinion would change on this matter.
It's selfish but I wish they'd put a lot more effort into satisfying everyone without Kinect. As in do more than just the occasional Gears, Halo or Fable sequel.
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It means nothing. The only definition it could possible have would be 'cost a lot of money'.
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Edit: I'm surprised how many people bought it on the strength of.... I'm tempted to say nothing, but it'd be more accurate to say good marketing.
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This is exactly why I haven't bought Kinect, and likely never will.
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I think people see "shooter" and just think "FPS", which is kind of our whole problem lately. Personally I'm hopeful we'll start seeing a lot more games that AREN'T that same thing, at this point (with Kinect) a more deliberate and strategic experience might still be workable and justified.
"Pew Pew Pew" Good one! That made me laugh.
/imagines how many negs something like that would get on a PS3 game, humorless that lot...
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Yeah you're a damn genius there!
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"Please change a game, intended and designed from the ground up for Kinect, so that it works for the controller instead."
Yeah, let's do that. Let's also change Dance Central 2 so that it's controller-only as well. Or when the new Nintendo console is released, let's get the developers of it's games to change the code so it works on the Wii.
It's not as if those without Kinect are short of choice...
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Overuse of the term 'AAA' may lead to its becoming irrelevant.
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Closely followed by "Kinect".
Even the early detractors must be surprised at the lack of games that have come out. And they're all just mini-game compilations.
Would be interested to see a game that uses hybrid controls, but I can't see it converting me.
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And also seeing all of my posts dropping a point at once, over and over this morning... makes me feel like I've got a following. I LOVE YOU ALL TOO!
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Shooter using Kinect in some way...AAA Kinect shooter
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Why would it be impossible. There are a number of hacks that show Kinect doing the first person act. To think this was done by one person or two and the implementations were pretty solid. People forget that Kinect does not have to track your whole body and when Kinect doesn't track your whole body, the lag is no where to be found.
Someone mentioned the throwing of a grenade but believe Kinect would not know when you threw it, thus forget that kinect can track when you open and close your hand.
The point is, the majority of you really do not know what Kinect can and cannot do because you have not tried to or even know how to develop for it. I would just leave those opinions alone until we see what results someone can do with a FPS with Kinect. I am sure there will be a host of tricks people will be able to pull off once they understand all the different things they can and cannot do with the device.
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I hear what your saying but the argument could be used forever just because the 1st doesnt make a good game those to follow might, but in this case i think its clear to most people this is a square peg in a round hole situation.
There seems to be this horrible stigma that kinect seems to have garnered that it wont be a proper success until it gets an amazing shooter just because its on the shooter box, but Kinect was designed by MS to entice the casuals and that doesnt mean the core players cant enjoy it but if you bought one thinking Epic, Lionhead & bungie were gonna be knocking out there AAA titles on it, your gonna be very dissapointed.
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It would seem that way if we always think of an FPS as your basic Halo, COD or Killzone type of game. That probably would not be the best fit to imitate those controls but instead we should think a little outside of the box. I believe there is this concept that when we here the term FPS that a shooter has to be geared towards those types of games in order to be successful. I am a little more open to see some different concepts come to the table.
There seems to be this horrible stigma that kinect seems to have garnered that it wont be a proper success until it gets an amazing shooter just because its on the shooter box, but Kinect was designed by MS to entice the casuals and that doesnt mean the core players cant enjoy it but if you bought one thinking Epic, Lionhead & bungie were gonna be knocking out there AAA titles on it, your gonna be very dissapointed.
I totally agree with you on this point. I believe Kinect takes a different approach to development and design and expecting Epic, Bungie or even Lionhead to create their games with Kinect controls would lead to a lot of disappointment. It still will be interesting to see why Crytek comes out with since I would have placed them within the same group. It just might happen that even with these traditional developers, they also have a concept that fits right at home with Kinect.
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This doesn't mean kinnect can't produce games of value, they will just have to be innovative and different in nature to what people expect from their standard fps or core game experiences. It could also compliment more traditional style games in some ways,maybe .
Whether this is what the majority of people want , I'm not sure. They may well be some brilliant and fun games that appear on kinnect, that change way people play games, or at least some games, but so far , there's nothing I've seen that makes me give a rats ass about kinnect I'm afraid.
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We do? I must have missed that memo... can you point me to something about that? Because I know it's been stated many times that there's nothing to stop using other controllers with it, and then there's the accelerator foot tracking.
That's a terribly definitive attitude you've presented, can you back it up with something?
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As for the simple foot movement recognition available , this doesn't translate to free movement through a 3d world. Being practical how Would it recognise movement forward unless u move forward, sideways etc, which would thus mean u would eventually run out of space in the real world, and would have to step back or more central before could go further forward or sideways etc. Thus , like I said movement has to be limited to minimal. Can u imagine trying to run in a call of duty style game or gta??? It really isn't practical. U could have small rooms in a game that might work, but larger environments aren't .
Found this which illustrates my point better than I could exPlain in my own words
[link url=http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/pneuma08/the-limitations-of-kinect-186724.phtml
]http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/pneuma0...[/link]
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"so by default games have to be on rails, or at least reduce movement to an absolute minimum within a world. This in itself makes it difficult to make games with the same kind of depth that people have become acquainted with."
That was the full assertion you were presenting, that Kinect is inherently limiting in the kind / degree of "depth". Again, quite a blanket attitude there.
"It could also compliment more traditional style games in some ways,maybe ."
Yeah no, you're just trying to squirm away what you actually said there. The context has not been about "supplementing" otherwise standard games, but rather controllers "supplementing" a Kinect based game. And I know I'm being pedantic, but you didn't say anything about the controllers either.
I'd think you should know better than to try to engage me on semantics Kirankara, but it especially pisses me off when I'm actually just trying to make some honest points here. Your overall post seemed misrepresenting, and so I sought to clarify.
EDIT:
"Thus , like I said movement has to be limited to minimal. Can u imagine trying to run in a call of duty style game or gta??? It really isn't practical. U could have small rooms in a game that might work, but larger environments aren't ."
And actually you're just digging in there anyway. The discussion that had already started here was about not thinking in terms of such a literal translation of FPS conventions. So what, running "like in CoD" is the only possible way to get around a large environment? Even pointing at a spot and saying 'run there' could get the job done. But no I guess it will never be "like Call of Duty", which as we all know is the only game that's worth emulating isn't it?
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"so by default games have to be on rails, or at least reduce movement to an absolute minimum within a world. This in itself makes it difficult to make games with the same kind of depth that people have become acquainted with."
That was the full assertion you were presenting, that Kinect is inherently limiting in the kind / degree of "depth". Again, quite a blanket attitude there. “
ME) We are yet to see anything contrary to this, and it seems to be a view that’s been supported by some devs. If you can show me how you can get the full range of controls ,sense of control and accuracy,that traditional controllers offer within a “core” game , within a kinect game, then great , im happy to be proven wrong, but so far, no-one seems to be of the opinion , that it is capable of doing so. It is limited in its uses, this isn’t to criticise Ms or Kinect, it’s just a fact. No motion sensing technology today is accurate enough to truly be capable of implementing such detailed and complex control schemes, and even if they were, Im not sure it would even then offer as responsive, precise and practical an experience as the traditional controller does.
Buck)"It could also compliment more traditional style games in some ways,maybe ."
Yeah no, you're just trying to squirm away what you actually said there. The context has not been about "supplementing" otherwise standard games, but rather controllers "supplementing" a Kinect based game. And I know I'm being pedantic, but you didn't say anything about the controllers either.
I'd think you should know better than to try to engage me on semantics Kirankara (do u realise how self important u sound here???, u sound like such a pompous ass) but it especially pisses me off when I'm actually just trying to make some honest points here. Your overall post seemed misrepresenting, and so I sought to clarify. “
ME) I’m not squirming out of anything. It seemed pretty obvious that I was suggesting that kinect could be used to compliment/enhance “core” games in the forms that they exist now, being used with traditional controllers. If you want to argue about semantics, thats your prerogative, i personally cant be fucked, as arguing about , what I’d already implied within my statements, is not something I care enough about to bother arguing with u. Ur intent to argue is clear and obvious. If it makes u feel better, all power to u, but I made a simple statement, which I felt was clear, but it seems maybe wasn’t. I have now clarified this, u can either accept that, or shove it up ur ass, i couldn’t give a fuck mate.
My overall post was not misrepresenting at all, it may have not been the most clearly explained, but the basic points remain. Kinect as a piece of tech and as a form of control implemented within games, has it’s limitations, and requires a different approach, one that seems to require a diluted control scheme, and less emphasis on precise movement controls. It seems u seek to find misrepresentation, because u are either a) blessed with a real sense of self importance, or b) don’t like what u read, and it doesn’t seem to fit ur MS tinted glasses. Im genuinely not sure which it is. I think its possibly a combination of both mixed with a bit of too much engaging with Vizzini in ur fanboy wars.
Buck)EDIT:
"Thus , like I said movement has to be limited to minimal. Can u imagine trying to run in a call of duty style game or gta??? It really isn't practical. U could have small rooms in a game that might work, but larger environments aren't ."
And actually you're just digging in there anyway. The discussion that had already started here was about not thinking in terms of such a literal translation of FPS conventions. So what, running "like in CoD" is the only possible way to get around a large environment? Even pointing at a spot and saying 'run there' could get the job done. But no I guess it will never be "like Call of Duty", which as we all know is the only game that's worth emulating isn't it?”
ME)So didn’t I state that it didn’t fit traditional approaches to fps games , like cod in fact, in my original post??
“This doesn't mean kinnect can't produce games of value, they will just have to be innovative and different in nature to what people expect from their standard fps or core game experiences “
Furthermore, cod was a simple example(don’t even play the game myself, so shove ur self important, patronising COD comment where sun don’t shine too), you could apply this to many other games where there are open worlds and movement within them is fundamental to gameplay experience. I refer back to gta again, “walk left” , “walk straight ahead”, really don’t seem to cut it in a game like that, as u cant specify precise points within a 3d world which u want ur character to move towards. Although, u could turn ur character by looking to the side etc, although this is far from ideal, as ur no longer facing directly at the screen . Its also highly unlikely that u could get a game to offer sharp response times using such a method, thus making games where sharp, concise movements are necessary , not very practical.
Ur clearly a smart guy, ut one who has a superiority complex, and a need to defend his MS products, even when u don’t really have much to argue about.
If u still think Kinect is capable of replicating traditional controllers( i don’t think u even do), then u are delusional. If u think I was suggesting Kinect couldn’t come up with innovative ways of implementing a lot of gaming functions etc, then ur even more delusional, as i stated that I felt devs would have to be innovative and approach games in different manner myself. However due to Kinect’s innate limitations (not due to it being bad hardware, just due to it being what it is) I cant see anyway, in which devs will try to replicate traditional control methods of “core” games through kinnect, its just not practical. It requires a fundamental change in how u approach the design of a game and how u interact with it.
Regardless, im yet to be convinced of Kinect offering enough to make me want to purchase one. If others see value in it as it stands, then great. Im happy for them.
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I even only called you out on one single phrase, that had, as I said there a "definitive" ring to it. I kept it simple... but you immediately veered towards the hysterics about it. Instead of simply defending the statement itself or taking the point!
...
But hey at least you've dropped some more pretense and are (nearly) openly calling me a fanboy now, that's an improvement of sorts.
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If ever a device was 'think outside the box' then it's Kinect. Of course FPSs (if that's where we're going) in their current guise can't be emulated exactly on Kinect but who's to say that it has to be like that at all.
Everyone scoffed at console shooters up until Halo came out and completely changed the perception of what a shooter could be and now we have an opportunity to see it happen again.
Maybe I'm being optimistic but I think we need some new ways of doing things because personally I'm fucking bored with shooters at the moment.
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"Please change a game, intended and designed from the ground up for Kinect, so that it works for the controller instead."
You can design from the ground up for Kinect all you like but it doesn't change the fact that it's never going to be any good for playing shooters compared to Move controls (do you even have a PS3?).
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And if so, what "shooters" have you played on it?
Which is actually all beside the point, Move is a far more precise targeting input, no contest. That doesn't mean it's automatically a superior interface for a GAME; that also may happen to have "shooting" in it.
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"That's a great way to prove your disdain for "arguing" there Kirankara. Why must you always disappoint like that? You freaking presented an argument and now you're also crying foul on someone for simply disagreeing with you. "
Well my disdain was apparent from beginning, as u tried to make a mountain out of molehill , by bring semantics into this, when reality of what I said was much simpler. As for " why must u always disappoint" , ermm Buck, I'm not sure who u think I am , but I'm pretty certain this is about the only time we've conversed. Furthermore, I'm not crying foul, I'm stating a few facts and saying that YOU are looking for an argument ( for whatever reason ) and in process ignoring the validity of points I've made , and even ignoring certain things I've said full stop, even though you then criticise me for points I've apparently not considered. ie
"I even only called you out on one single phrase, that had, as I said there a "definitive" ring to it. I kept it simple... but you immediately veered towards the hysterics about it. Instead of simply defending the statement itself or taking the point! "
What was " hysterical" about my response?? U ignored/missed the fact I said it could maybe used to compliment traditional style gaming , so I pointed this out. you asked if I could back up my opinion with anything , and I presented, an admittedly not academic or highly reputable sourced , article supporting my simple point about movement within 3 dimensional worlds as a limitation of kinect.
"But hey at least you've dropped some more pretense and are (nearly) openly calling me a fanboy now, that's an improvement
of sorts."
Did I ever even remotely suggest u were a fan boy before now ???? Or are u being rather broad and sweeping with ur statements now, and bordering on the hysterical and over dramatic?? As for pretense, what pretense?? I'll call a spade a spade . Fanboy or not( personally don't care , ur free to be whatever the fuck u want) , ur still claiming to have some sort if moral high ground here , and looking to incite arguments. That is fanboy or troll like behaviour. If ur not a fan boy, fine, great. I apologise, I'm big enough to do so, but drop the pretensions of grandeur ffs. I have made a valid point regarding movement and u know that for a fact. I never criticised kinect, just said, here's a fact, that's the way it is, and devs have to change their approach to designing games away from what they'd do in "core " games due to these limitations. Why u feel sone overwhelming need to get defensive about that I'm not sure, but if it makes u feel better we can take apart wii and move, as there's limitations to those forms of motion gaming too.
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/backs away from the crazy
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"Yeah no, you're just trying to squirm away what you actually said there."
like i said who was squirming, i was having an honest and hopen discussion, u were one trying to make me out to be evasive or deceptive in some manner.
"I'd think you should know better than to try to engage me on semantics Kirankara, but it especially pisses me off when I'm actually just trying to make some honest points here. Your overall post seemed misrepresenting, and so I sought to clarify. "
Again, i note the aggressive language "pisses me off", the desire to establish ur mental superiority "you should know better than to try to engage me on semantics", like we have even talked about anything previously, let alone ur semantic superiority, and claiming that I was misrepresenting(unclear, would have been far less aggressive terminology, and more accurate too), and finally your patronising reference to call of duty, which i referred to simply as an example of how movement is limited "But no I guess it will never be "like Call of Duty", which as we all know is the only game that's worth emulating isn't it?", as if this somehow negated my simple valid point. it was never meant to indicate that COD is definitive in some gaming sense, and I dont even play the game.
You could easily have said, movement could be achieved in alternative ways, but you responded with an aggressive and patronising comment, which had no other purpose than to establish your superiority intellectually and as a gamer (we all know COD is for lesser gamers, in fact lesser human's , dont we????).
All this and u expect me to take it that ur the sane person here, dont make me laugh. U have a superiority complex and delusions of grandeur that are totally laughable. whats more, u still havent even accepted the fact that you're wrong. You came looking for an argument, and there wasnt really an argument to be had, as what i said was true. U ignored things i'd stated and tried to manipulate them to suit ur own ends, which really wasnt possible, as u had no argument to start with.
Im sorry, but its clear from lack of engagement with the facts, and attempting to avoid any points ive actually made, ur simply either a fanboy, or a jack ass, which it's fair to say is known by most people on here anyway.
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And how is it you're making that assessment, just who is it that you think *I* am?
"ermm Buck, I'm not sure who u think I am , but I'm pretty certain this is about the only time we've conversed."
It may well be my standard way of dealing with people who resort to petty lies like that, do you really want me to have to resort to links Kirankara? I even remember you employing this exact same subterfuge once before.
Or perhaps your memory is just that porous, or selective, I guess I can't actually say for sure. It's the same difference in the end. As I do actually remember you well enough, that's probably the reason I chose to frame my rebuttal in terms of your "attitude", since I've already dealt with your shotgun blasts of 'reason' before. My original point stands, it was not "wrong" in any sense, and you have only proceeded to reinforce the truth of my assessment.
Calling me the troll is precious when it was you who entered this topic making absolute characterizations that "we all know that character movement within a 3d world ie forward , backward etc , as enabled by traditional controllers, can't be replicated by Kinect" and even imposing, sight unseen, an absolute restriction on the whole topic pertaining to THIS game: "so by default games have to be on rails".
I wont dispute that you qualified your opinion in other ways, that DOES NOT excuse you from responsibility for your overall choice in wording. Speaking in absolutes, then making other statements that may also vaguely mitigate those absolutes, is not fair communication at all. It's called double-speak.
And when called on one of those statements, you only complete the subterfuge by retreating to a different statement and claiming THAT as the absolute. And so everything you say only loses substance at that point. But the sum total of your words still presents a clear "attitude" - and you've only brought it into focus since then - that your opinion is somehow fact, even though your examples are nothing but conjecture.
"I'll call a spade a spade"
Which exactly what I did as well, you DID try to revise the meaning of your own words, you squirmed away from taking responsibility for you ATTITUDE.
And I respond to that with my own honest attitude, and a dash of expedience. As sarcasm is the most appropriate - and often the only effective - retaliation to disingenuousness. Or even if it's not strictly disingenuous, it's incoherence, which may again amount to the same thing.
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The fact that you believe you need to be standing in order to use kinect or that in order to move within a 3D environment you need to be standing or moving also shows a lack of understanding. There are numerous hacks that show otherwise.